The Abilene Paradox
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- Опубликовано: 7 окт 2024
- Jerry B. Harvey's Abilene Paradox, a puzzle about group decision making. Groups can decide, even unanimously, to do things that no one in the group wants to do. See Harvey's original video on the paradox at • The Abilene Paradox (1... . @PhiloofAlexandria
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Great explaining.
Thank you Daniel ..great reflection…
Being too nice is not always the same thing as following the golden rule. Happy new year, prof!
I’ve thought about the Abilene paradox for years and I think it is often just a case of people hoping that the new option will prove to be good and it seldom is.
Sounds like the problem with social media.
If the preference of 4 out of 5 people in a group is to go along with the majority -- that just amplifies the preferences of the 1 in 5. In other words, groups naturally pull toward the most extreme position.
Studied it as Union rep in early 2000 as state steward and military in senior leadership training
What if the trip to Abilene was actually better than the regret of not having done something together as a group? What if the ‘terrible trip to Abilene’ turns out to be the most memorable part of that holiday? What if the story of that trip becomes a kind of paradoxical story that invigorates the imagination of others? The point is that we don’t really know what’s the best path. Sometimes we learn a lot from a real life tragedy that we wish we hadn’t had to experience.
Good point-the trip made Harvey's career!
@@nicovideotube They think it was because they didn't want to do it, but had they had to fight over what each individual wanted to do it could have caused unnecessary strain on the one or more relationships between the individuals.
@@PhiloofAlexandria imagine if they found Abilene was so awful they determined to go back the next day to replicate the experience. That would have been interesting as a play with values. JFK wanted to go to the moon, not because it was easy, but because it was hard. Harvey wanted to go to Abilene, not because it was nice, but because it was terrible.
I think the dad unconsciously kinda wanted to go to Abiline's but flipped 180 when others said they didn't like it🤭
Perhaps it's a problem of not wanting to be seen as 'different' from your group? If they all wrote down their preference privately, on paper, then the preferences could be tallied. Then no one would feel as if they 'stood out' from the others? So perhaps not people pleasing at all, more a fear of being perceived as different?
Sometimes i feel like this channel is grasping at straws... im going to apply what i am now going to call the William Murphy Paradox - that is, every veiwer that comes to this channel leaves here saying "that was an interesting paradox" yet each person was really thinking "that was just a story- that was not even a paradox. This is like how people confuse a coincidence with irony." And yet one by one they feel compelled to comment differently.
I really hope the Wm Murphy paradox gains traction in the philosophy community.
It does not seem like you considered the fear of being rejected as a motivator versus altruism
and if people are genuinely being selfless, I think it's just sometimes failing. at least people do get 50% right and go to good path IoI even if this situation is solved, we just found a mistake of a detailed part of a whole selflessness and will make another one later then adjust then find another one. my point is because types of acts that count as selflessness are too many so it's better to just laugh off at the situation and focus on how everyone worked hard to warm each other, not going to Adeline or whatever isn't the focus, it's the people's handwork to be nice that's the lively part of their life
I think this counts as the cave problem ig, that people focus too much on food itself that they can't see the warm process of thought of others and think this as a problem
Nah it was the fault of the father in law. Everyone else was just being polite and deferred to him.
"pathological altrusim"
I guess it happens regarding negative things too, like racism and crime?
Interesting thought. We might tolerate negative activities or even participate in them ourselves just to please the others, even though we think it's wrong. And maybe everyone or almost everyone is doing that. This may relate as well to preference cascades and to the kind of phenomenon Havel discusses in "The Power of the Powerless." Everyone puts up a sign saying, "Workers of the world, unite!" even though they think it's absurd propaganda. Finally one shopkeeper takes his sign down, and others, seeing that, take theirs down too, because it turns out no one actually believed it.
I feel like all the morality adults have are just having conceptual people following them. So that's why morality fails frequently because the person's doing it for them instead of actually looking through the people xD
What if the trip to Abilene was great?
The trip was doomed from the start. If each was trying to please others rather than themselves then they weren’t in the mood to make it into the great trip you’re suggesting. But it may have been accidentally great for other reasons.
G'day
There is something wrong with your video auto focus. The video is focusing in & out.
Its hard to see you. It's better when I just listen to you without looking at the video feed.
Yeah, I noticed that. Apologies. I may have to turn off that autofocus feature, which seems to be fooled by extraneous motions.
I’m sorry but no. Life would be better if people tried to do what they thought others wanted. U’re making it seem as if we can’t learn each other’s preferences and act accordingly. Every cultural, social, and moral advancement came from trying to help others and putting others before one’s self. Yes people can be too nice, but let’s not act as if that’s the problem society is having now, because it’s definitely not. Kindness is a fundamental part of virtue. Problem is Christianity doesn’t teach real virtue or morality. In fact, it can be Christian values that may keep people from speaking up and letting their preferences be known. I bet many Christian men think/thought if they were women, then they would want to be controlled, so based on the golden rule they control women. Obviously u can’t only use ur own experiences and likes to make judgments about others, u have to learn what they prefer from them.
christianity's 'golden rule' got the whole thing backwards, so in some ways, it's an "honest" mistake. pleasing others requires careful observation of those others, no way around it.
There is no morality without God. The Bible is the foundation for morality. Basing your morality on society and culture results in subjective morality (in other words, no morality at all) because society and culture are always changing.
@@goblinoide there are certain values and behaviors every culture has in common. Humans didn’t evolve with the Bible. Obviously ancient humans must have had some sense of morality before the Bible to even survive up to this point. Animals also have a sense of morality and they can’t even read. I’m sorry this notion of faith has corrupted ur faculty of reason. Please actually study the being that u are, don’t just believe the first explanation for existence u hear from the humans. They’re exploiting those who dont put in the real mental work to learn the truth about nature, the truth being multifaceted and complex, not just a simple “some Superman done did it.”
@@enfomy Do you think murder is wrong? And if so, what do you base that on?
@@goblinoide god murders numerous people in the Bible. Ethics isn’t a simple “never do this, never do that.” It takes intelligence to do what’s right. Sometimes one may have to kill, most of the time not. Obviously if everyone was killing one another we would all mostly parish or live short lives. For the most part people value their lives so they don’t put themselves in danger by harming others. Ethics isn’t just some feel good rosy worldview, it has real world functionality. Why doesn’t god just have everyone live in peace? Suffering seems pointless. If this is some type of test, that is even more pointless since god already knows everything.