BART Silicon Valley PHASE 2 Extension Overview!
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- Опубликовано: 8 апр 2021
- In this video, I give an overview of the Phase 2 extension of the Bay Area Rapid Transit to Silicon Valley. The extension will add 6 miles of track and 4 stations to BART system and finally bring BART service to San Jose, California.
SCVTA route flyover video: vimeo.com/490958037
BARTFanSMA video of BART at Millbrae: • San Francisco/Richmond...
TrainSF Video of the UP at San Mateo: • Railfanning San Mateo ...
Welwyn22 Video of the UP at Diridon: • Caltrain, Amtrak and U...
WSDOT Alaskan Way Viaduct Replacement Playlist: • Alaskan Way Viaduct/SR...
Music: • Vaporwave Chill [Full ...
LA Metro Purple Line: • LA Metro PURPLE LINE (...
California HSR: • California HSR 2020
Caltrain: • Caltrain Electrificati...
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I no longer live in California (my home state) as I was priced out being a disabled veteran on a fixed income back in 1993. But, I remember riding on BART back while the tunnel under the Bay was still under construction, it had trains operating in both the East Bay as well as SF itself and it was the definition of hope for the future, clean, quiet, ultra modern, comfortable. Also it was maybe not cheap, but was affordable to most. In fact as a teen I thought it was Star Trek coming to life in our city before our eyes, maybe not distant planets but a real live futuristic system that benefited us all.
What killed Bay Area transit was Marin voting to keep BART out. The snobs did not want the filthy commuter working class colonizing their Frank Lloyd Wright county. At the time Santa Rosa and Sonoma County was not really such a large bedroom community but it was growing fast so that by the time the mid eighties rolled around a typical commute from Santa Rosa into the City was a three hour drive averaging about 16 mph. Marin got worse than had they approved the BART system, and in fact they could have allowed BART to run through their county without building any stations thus removing a lot of the traffic congestion on hwy 101 which really crawls through Marin. Of course raising the bridge toll from 50 cents to whatever crazy amount it is now just rubs salt into the wounded commuters who cannot afford to live closer to their employment than Windsor (I remember when it was a quarter and went to 50 cents, and I have also known people who commuted from Ukiah in Mendocino).
It is decades past the time there should be a comprehensive high speed rail that webs the Bay Area, and the longer we wait the more expensive it will get, just as it now will cost many times what it would have had this simply been planned back in the seventies. Such a web must include a link to Sacramento, and then the transit systems in LA and SF/Sac linked by high speed rail no matter the status of freight rail. Just as I-5 has become a parking lot between the two north/south metropolises that you drive at your own risk, and the risk to your vehicle from the deteriorated roadway. Time for the greater good to overrule the NIMBY jerks.
Nimbys ruined this state
Yes !! Override the NIMBY jerks ! They are selfish, and their opinions should be severely downrated. Aarre Peltomaa
Also San Mateo voted no, I believe mostly to keep out black people
@@quickstart90909 San Mateo voted yes originally, but when Marin voted no, they had to back out too since there wasn’t enough funding.
@@davidnissim589 The opposite is true.
Public transit should be funded 9 to 1 just like the interstates were, also, BART uses different track gauge than standard
I’m down for that! Lol
The intersates were built because of the cold war with the USSR to move military vehicles. If we tell the US government that subways could be used as fallout shelters in case of nuclear war or to move troops across the city in case if the US gets invaded maybe the government will sink as much money on subways and passenger rail as the interstates.
@@AlexCab_49 The government actually did designate subways as shelters (and in communist countries they were explicitly designed to serve this purpose), but warheads started to become so powerful that it was clear that the stations would not be able to withstand the hit. The problem is that subways are most useful in city centers, and any city big enough to warrant a subway is also big enough to warrant a bomb. Underground stations on the periphery of a target might survive, but that's not a great reason to fund the whole system.
The government *does* transport cargo and vehicles via the rail network. In fact it's pretty much the only way to transport large numbers of armored vehicles across the country since main battle tanks are kind of awkward to transport by road. The problem is that this makes them effectively freight rail, not passenger rail, and the rail companies have no incentive to maintain the infrastructure any more than is needed for what a freight train requires.
Meanwhile a lightweight high speed passenger train is not going to be able to effectively haul a load of Abrams around, and it's not going to be able to run fast on the bumpy tracks that are "good enough" for freight trains.
If that happened. Most major cities in the US will have Tokyo-level metro and commuter system.
I think what needs to come with that is cutting freeways in ubran areas to 3 to 1. Really want to put that freeway though a city, fine city and state pay for it. reduce general expansion or new construction to 5 to 1.
Fun Fact: Wilshire/Vermont station in Los Angeles is a dual level station; the design allows trains to diverge onto Wilshire without conflicting with trains going the other direction on Vermont, and vice versa. It effectively allowed Metro to get the benefits of a flyover without building one.
Pretty much like the new central subway in downtown SF?
As cool as having a loop line around the bay, I think with Caltrain electrification we're basically getting that already for a lot less money. Once electrification in place, it will be pretty easy to get close to BART-like service.
I also think the placement of the Santa Clara station was entirely pragmatic. They needed to put a yard somewhere and that was really the only good place to put one.
Oh it definitely was, and I know BART around the bay is not very practical. I should have made it more clear that I would like to see it happen, but it is for nearly all intents and purposes, unnecessary...
@@TheFourFoot I think the proper way to continue from the Santa Clara station would be to loop back to the airport under the runway and have a station directly under the terminal. This tunnel could continue into Japantown via a second tunnel under San Jose, ending up completing a loop back into the main line between Berryessa and Milpitas, giving access to the airport from Diridon, downtown, and various points east. Richmond San Jose trains could alternate clockwise and counterclockwise off-peak, and San Francisco San Jose trains and Richmond San Jose trains could be only clockwise and counterclockwise during peak hours. There could also be a "San Jose circle" train that just served the San Jose stations to supplement service.
Obviously expensive but it seems like a more sensible expansion rather than duplicating or replacing an electrified Caltrain.
I also really hope they left some provisions in for infill stations in San Jose because the runs are pretty long. I know they went with only one station on Santa Clara to save money, but for such a dense area it really should have another station or two someday.
I think that they should have built the line from Deridion station going southwest until it would be under San Carlos Ave. It could than rise up and become elevated and go over the street. The line would continue on San Carlos having stops at Bascom st, Winchester st, and Saratoga ave. It would be on San Carlos until San Carlos and 280 crossed. Their it would go onto 280 and have a stop at Apple’s HQ. Than it would have a yard in an empty parking lot.
I don't think there are any parking lots of sufficient size for a yard along the 280/Stevens Creek corridor. Remember, BART wants to expand their fleet up to 1600 cars before the end of the decade so they need another fairly large yard.
Flynn_ where Holmestead RD and Blaney Ave intersect their is a large parking lot.
There's also the SF MUNI Central Subway. That's also a dual bore design.
I know there's a huge psychological aspect to finally finishing the BART ring around the Bay, but it's probably the single transit project in the area that I don't think is important. Caltrain already services that corridor, so you don't need to build anything new, you just need to integrate the stations at Diridon or Santa Clara and time the transfers to allow for seamless connections between BART and Caltrain.
Now, that new BART line up 680 we caught a glimpse of in that map: THERE'S a transit project! 680 is plagued with congestion, and if the alignment could somehow run to Martinez after passing through Walnut Creek or Pleasant Hill, it would help so many people get access to services at the county seat, and could provide connections to the intercity and long distance Amtrak trains that stop there. Sadly, neither BART nor the state rail plan include anything along 680, IIRC.
For sure. BART around the bay is a real long shot as it is. I would love to see BART up to Vallejo or even further. They could use some of that big city transit up there lol
@@TheFourFoot I've always been pissed that they didn't build room for rail into the second Carquinez bridge. It was a golden opportunity to prepare for the future. Could run in I-80 median into Vallejo, then Fairfield, then cut across greenfield to meet up with rail right of way at a new Amtrak station in Dixon. Yeah that's REALLY long but one advantage BART has is the ability to do normal heavy rail speeds, and laying BART track isn't really any more expensive than regular electrified track. (Contrary to what people say, the gauge makes no difference -- eBART is cheaper because it uses non-electrified track with no automatic train control -- i.e. it uses low-tech trackage)
@@NozomuYume Maybe they could use a ferry to get BART trains across the bay, for maximum retro points
@@chaos386 Train ferries are cool but not very practical when there are road bridges/tunnels available, as transferring to a road vehicle is much faster than loading a train ferry, not to mention cheaper than operating a train ferry.
The last remaining train ferries in the world are in places where there are no road bridges, but enough people/stuff on the train to make running a train ferry more efficient than loading/unloading onto a non-train ferry.
The last two train ferries in Europe were between Germany and eastern Denmark, and between mainland Italy and Sicily. There are no tunnels/bridges anywhere near these locations.
The German/Danish train ferry is shutting down because they're building a rail tunnel. The Sicily train ferry will probably get shut down if they finally build the planned bridge. Even if the bridge turns out to only be a road bridge.
Yeah, I’m guessing the ferry comment was a joke lol. But you’re right, that was a perfect (missed) opportunity to future proof the bridge. TBH if you’re going to Dixon, might as well run BART to Sacramento! I’m not teasing, I would totally support that lol. But you’re right. The whole eBart issue is an absolute disaster that I intend to do a video on. I don’t care how much more it would have cost to extend conventional BART, they really should have done it. Needless to say, my first experience with eBart taking place in 2020, did not leave me impressed!
Future video request: please make one on Caltrain grade separation progress in various towns
I could definitely do that! Might be a bit...
i used to live in san jose before i moved to michigan in 1996 and i remember when i wanted to ride bart anywhere and this usually meant going to san francisco, i had to go downtown and take the 180 to the freemont station. that line will probably be discontinued now if it hasn't been already. then i moved to hayward and lived across the street from the south hayward bart station. having bart basically at my doorstep was great. one day i will have to make the pilgrimage back to san jose, just to ride from there all the way to the station in san francisco that gets me to the cable cars to go to the wharf and the pier.
Very thoughtful video--and comments! This may be my new favorite channel.
My only issue with BART around the bay is that I tend to see the argument on BART around the bay as an excuse to not fund Caltrain. Argument goes "why give funds to Caltrain; let's just have BART ring the bay," usually followed by a suggestion (but nothing even close to serious ideas) to replace the Peninsula Corridor with BART. (Also, can you imagine the lawsuits Atherton would file over this? They filed lawsuits over adding overhead wires for Caltrain electrification/CHSR; pretty sure grade separation and corridor expansion to accommodate for wider gauge tracks would be far more intrusive).
That being said, if BART follows a separate parallel line as opposed to taking over the peninsula corridor-yeah, it could work. I don't see any funding for it for a few decades, though.
Screw Atherton...that shitty little town
Thanks for making this video, very exciting stuff!
Thank for this video. Please do more like this one.
I will. It’s my bread and butter lol.
Seeing that old A car getting torn up really brings a tear to the eye. I’ll miss those old A cars.
Oh I know. I really hope the CA state railroad museum got/gets ahold of one. I know The gauge is an issue, but seriously...
@@TheFourFoot Hopefully they’ll get 2 and can restore them to their original condition. Let people see what they looked like in the early 70’s.
That would be awesome
Really interesting videos! For me, someone from Germany, it's normal to see high speed and good public transport, but it's fascinating to see, how it all works in the US! A well-deserved subscription!
Yeah Germany’s rail network is just a little more developed/actually useful/10,000 times better in every way that isn’t shipping ridiculous amounts of coal and corn lol. I’m really glad you like my videos! Kinda like watching a car crash, I guess you can’t look away from America lol.
@@TheFourFoot Hahaha, that's right! But we hope to move goods from the road onto rail for more eco-friendly transportation. Just gotta get those delays out of the system so that it's more on time! Not comparable to Amtracks few hour delays though hahaha
Also, the public transport in my town is growing a lot, like 20km or so until 2030? Quite exciting to see more light rail, especially for someone interested like me! :D
Absolutely. It would be really nice if the freight railroads here would put a little effort into attracting new business, particularly intermodal. As coal slowly dies, there is an ever increasing amount of capacity that could be used for taking trucks off the road and actually competing with them. I know it wouldn’t be cheap to open several new intermodal facilities across their networks, but there’s no way cities and states wouldn’t be willing to come up with money and tax breaks to facilitate it (particularly when politicians could tout job creation, etc.). Instead they’re blinded by short term profits and focus on cutting costs on existing service.
I’m guessing heads would roll in Germany if a passenger train showed up a day (or longer!) late. My first trip on the Acela, we departed Boston exactly 30 minutes late due to problems changing operating ends. Granted we arrived at New York only 18 minutes late, but yeah, not the best first impression!
@@TheFourFoot Yeah definitely, most railways can only be built through funding. This would then affect the industries around it as well. If you ask me, I think there should be tax for road cargo, which would make it less attractive and bring more onto rails.
And yeah, trains being *this* late over here would certainly be horrible. But as we know, you can't be on time every time and we also have trains running late, but I can assure you that most are still annoyed with it ;).
If it were me I'd have a branch to SJC on 101 and a branch to Cupertino. Santa Clara is a big miss out but caltrain goes to diritron to transfer, or if you really wanted to another branch.
Then you could keep extending on/near foothill, i280 or 101 if San Mateo wanted to. Or if you were crazy add another branch to downtown on 17 from Los Gatos.
BART Phase 2 may look like a duplication of Caltrain from Santa Clara to San Jose, but look how far one will have to walk to transfer between Caltrain and BART at San Jose. You will have to walk through the entire station and then across much of the parking lots near the station. Clearly, some kind of cross-platform transfer was needed, like the Caltrain to BART connection at Millbrae.
Another factor, I suspect, was the decision to build a maintenance facility along the ex-SP line. Although a cross-platform connection in San Jose might have been possible, there would still need to be someplace to store and fix BART trains, presumably someplace south of Diridon station.
Bertha's troubles are certainly a legitimate concern, but we shouldn't forget the relatively trouble-free operation of Brenda and Pamela, the borers of the University of Washington - Roosevelt - Northgate route. And that route probably has more in common with Santa Clara than the Seattle waterfront.
Absolutely!
Fantastic. Very professional dissertation Tums up
Thanks a lot! I’m glad you liked it!
Nice job man!
A former resident.
Good videos, Bro. Well researched.
Thanks a lot!
@@TheFourFoot Born and raised in Santa Monica, growing up I always wished we had a great transportation system. It was atrocious when I was young, nice to see the city building it up down there.
@@ianomalley3054 for sure!
Converting Caltrain to Bart offers an interesting prospect of having both kind of trains run along the corridor. I can see any kind of traditional rail service in the corridor becoming an express or super express train service, while BART picks up more of the local traffic.
Nice video!
Thanks a lot!
Being able to take BART as a loop train would be cool but I do feel like consolidating Caltrain into BART and having an actual unified transit system would be better. Southern Caltrain stations are weak but a lot of the Peninsula stations go right into downtown and electrification will make it better.
My real Bay Area transit dream is still to revitalize the Dumbarton Rail Bridge.
imo the station at santa clara seems kinda redundant... like there's already caltrain serving that area, and you can transfer at diridon... I'd say maybe BART should be extended west along I-280 and then north along the 85, before following the 101 towards Millbrae as you proposed. I feel like that would really add a lot more coverage in new areas that currently dont have rapid transit, like cupertino. idk if it's feasible, but it seems logical to me
That definitely would have been better, unfortunately this is what we got lol
@@TheFourFoot Yeah, it's still a big improvement over not doing anything lol, and connecting caltrain and bart south of the bay is gonna be great for connectivity! thanks for making the video, I learned a lot!
For sure! Thanks! I’m glad you liked it!
They should have left a stub tunnel for future expansion, but even that’s not happening at least as I’m aware of...
@@TheFourFoot One thing to note is that the Diridon transfer is going to be kind of crappy, with a long-ass walk (and I bet they will be too cheap to include moving walkways). The Santa Clara transfer will be a much shorter walk through an undercrossing to the Caltrain/ACE platforms. Assuming the train I want to be on stops at Santa Clara, I'd rather transfer there for the time savings of avoiding the long walk at Diridon.
Capitol Corridor would be a better transfer at Oakland Coliseum or Richmond for most of its stations, obviously, though if for some reason you were in Downtown San Jose and wanted to get to the Fremont or Hayward Capitol Corridor stations, BART to Santa Clara could still be a win since VTA light rail is so damn slow downtown it completely negates its fast transfer advantage at Diridon.
This station will also give Santa Clara University students fast access to BART. Universities are usually big drivers of transit usage.
Cool Video!
Glad you liked it!
Yet again, a brilliant video. Connecting BART from both ends makes sense to me. Although I may not live to see that moment, it would facilitate travel around the Bay Area. Having HSR, Caltrain, and BART would also provide glorious alternatives to the automobile. Keep up the excellent work! (A Dutchman, I grew up in Palo Alto; I now live in retirement in the Netherlands!)
Bertha was damaged by the contractor he was told about a steel pipe in the ground and they decided to run over it anyway
Do you have any proof of that?
@@williamcondon7729 how how about you Google the lawsuit dummy
I would argue the stacked design simplifies the station, not complicates it. If you’re side by side, you either need to switch to a twin bore design as you approach the station to accommodate an island platform, or else you need to go with side-by-side side platforms, which require a crossover pedestrian tunnel to get to the far track, and an extra set of elevators to access it. The stacked side platforms they’re going with allow both platforms to share elevators and means you don’t need to dig out an access corridor above / bellow / through the overhead space of the train tunnel.
You might be right. It's definitely an interesting design, and I'm glad an American agency is adopting a construction method used in other parts of the world, for the first time here. It will be interesting to see if the final station design includes the cavernous open vertical shafts for the elevators/stairs. I'm not knocking the design, it will be a pleasant and very open space, but I wonder if they will shrink down the public space in some way by building staff only areas for whatever mechanical systems or something like that.
An island platform between the tracks wouldn’t have required two sets of platforms and elevators.
stacked tracks/platforms can cause confusion for riders, and can be dangerous in an emergency evacuation. a platform separating the tracks is more rider friendly for transfers and safer for emergencies. i really hope they ditch this stacked design.
That shit changed so quickly. It was never supposed to be a final design, just a design to get a foot in the door.
I think BART's top priorities right now should be another Bay crossing (a second Transbay Tube or putting tracks on the Bay Bridge), and a new route along the 680 corridor that would start with the Orange and Green Lines at Fremont, and connect to the Yellow Line at Walnut Creek
A separate BART line from Fremont to Palo Alto with stops at Fremont-Centerville, Newark, a few stops at Menlo Park, a stop at the Palo Alto Caltrain and terminating near the center of Stanford campus would be a big plus. It's gonna be expensive, but the demand will help even out the expenses. The Dumbarton road bridge is often at capacity during the PM hours.
The Dumbarton rail bridge already exists. Maybe it could be refurbished to accommodate a BART line instead of boring a new tunnel ?
@@adithyaramachandran7427 they’re planning to restore the Dumbarton Rail Bridge for Caltrain and possibly Amtrak to use
@@davidnissim589 I thought that they canceled that plan :'(
Interesting!
connecting Bart up the peninsula - 38 miles and some of the most staunch opponents together with the most well-funded legal team the world may ever see. Caltrain electrification nearly bankrupted itself through the legal battles
Yeah I didn’t say it was a good idea lol
BART around the BAY would make for a confusing scheduling / routing change. Right now, every line “ends”. You have a Richmond train, Antioch train, Berryessa train, etc. Having a continuous loop with some destinations outside the loop like Pleasanton means you’d have to rethink the entire routing / scheduling system.
"San Antonio is one of the least used Caltrain Stations", me that used to take that station to work 👁👄👁
An excellent treatise. I really enjoyed this !! I think that there should be one overhead structure with gradual curves with California High Speed on top, and BART on the lower level. Have two in one to save money. Aarre Peltomaa
The Millenium Line skytrain extension in Vancouver Canada used a single bore for bidirectional train service. Skytrain cars are a little smaller than BART cars though but the BART TBM would be way smaller than the Alaskan Way TBM.
There should be a transit link from the North 1st street VTA Light Rail station, to the San Jose Airport, to the Santa Clara Caltrain/BART station. This would connect VTA Light Rail, Caltrain, and BART to the airport while allowing people to transfer to/from Light Rail and Caltrain without having to go through downtown San Jose. This link would be good for those traveling to/from the jobs/housing along North 1st and the jobs/housing up the peninsula.
i think that’s the plan from diridon - a BRT type flyover between diridon and SJC.
That would be awesome if they get it built.
@@TheFourFoot I looked up Chill Will's BRT suggestion and found some interesting information from San Jose Spotlight. It appears that the San Jose has summitted a request for proposals to replace the silly little shuttle bus that connects the San Jose train station to the San Jose airport with the line being extended west down Stevens Creek Blvd. to Cupertino sometime latter. San Jose has received 23 proposals from new startups to established industry players. Bombardier has proposed a monorail system that looks a lot like the Las Vegas monorail, The Boring Company has proposed a Las Vegas type tunnel system, and Glydways has proposed autonomous electric vehicles running in a guideway. Glydways autonomous electric vehicles are also being considered for a transit line in Antioch Calif, in the City of South San Francisco, and as a link across the Dumbarton bridge. Google "UPDATE: San Jose advances high-tech ideas to connect transportation hubs" to read the article from San Jose Spotlight. Search Google for Glydways to see what they are offering. The report from the city of San Jose with the 23 proposals "Airport-Diridon-Stevens Creek Connector" can be searched for as well. You could make a few interesting videos with all of that info.
@@wmtrader i think glydways would be good for 1st/last mile to public transit. the problem with them is that they don’t move a lot of people like a 60’ articulated bus with 50-60 seats inside.
@@jtown408 that's what they are being proposed for, transit for the last mile. something to get you from the station to the city block where your destination is.
What Big Bertha is useful is making a 4 track Stacked tunnel Local Top Lower Tunnel Express Track Manhattan East Side Lexington Avenue 59th-96th and 116th-125th East Side Line Execptions for 51st and 59th Street Stations IRT East Side Line there's the IND queens Boulevard line the middle Level at 51st Street while 59th Street Broadway line middle level. The best route to construct a Big Bertha tunnel type underneath the San Francisco Bay is the second transbay tunnel BART 1.67m tracks Lower Level 1kv DC Third Rail Upper Level 25kv 60hz California High-Speed Rail Caltrain. How about putting a San Jose San Francisco Airport BART Line on the Median of the 101 fwy with some overpasses getting bus stops that's how CTA Chicago Washington WMATA does with Median Stops.
I fully support all those plans! Lol
I just subscribed and enjoy your knowledge of passenger rail networks and as a retired UP engineer (N. CA) I saw first hand Amtraks Op. Practices and am pro high speed and commuter rail especially where they have their own right-of-way but against long distance trains (never on time luxury cruises) and trains on heavy freight traffic lines. I ran the Cal-P hundreds of times w/ mostly intermodal trains and that works well as those trains are 70mph w/ pass. being 79mph (should be faster)😋🤑
Nice to hear from a fellow engineer! For sure Amtrak isn’t perfect. Around where I live in Nebraska, the railroad usually shuts down starting about 1-2 hours before Amtrak is scheduled to come through. They’ve gotten better at dispatching because coal traffic is down a lot even from when I hired out 10 years ago, but there’s still sometimes extreme examples of freight trains getting hosed by Amtrak. That said, I’m still an advocate for LD trains, in the hope that a better solution to nationwide passenger rail will come about, but I understand they’re certainly not for everyone lol.
Thankyou for the nice response... They've gotten 'hosed' a few times by me w/ all the problems we have running UP trains over the mtn (Sacramento - Reno).. btw.. If you ever changed careers politics also seems a strong point for you.. 🤪
Ha, politics, maybe. I wouldn’t mind the kickbacks, but the rest of it, I don’t know lol. I think almost every ty+e employee has screwed Amtrak at some point in their career! (Whether intentional or not)...
At some point we HAVE to loop this system throughout the region. Hell if needed, construct more transbay tubes. I agree it's all expensive, but BART is one of those things that you won't realize just what you have until you don't have it anymore. Let's not take this system for granted. It's done us more wonders than one would think.
Big mistake not having it go to the SJC airport. They’re going to have to build an expensive people mover from Santa Clara station to the airport. They should’ve just run Bart directly to the airport. They’ll regret not doing this. It’ll be just like the Oakland airport - a time-consuming hassle to transfer.
Or just run shuttles and buses? With automatic buses coming, it will be way more efficient than building anything.
How is it more efficient than being RIGHT AT the airport??
Seems like they do that everywhere, SFO, JFK, LAX(people mover)
@@ianomalley3054 Bart goes directly to SFO. You don’t have to take a people mover to get to Bart. Maybe to change terminals to get to the International Terminal, but you don’t have to.
@@passatboi You have to transfer to at Millbrae, to a smaller train, smaller track. It's not the bart system vehicle. It may have the name BART on it, but it's different. Cheers, bro.
Maybe BART could try going further west to complete the loop around the bay? Make a parallel corridor of service to Caltrain connected with bus lines serving suburban neighborhoods as density increases? That's done in Tokyo, granted the bay isn't as dense as Tokyo lol.
BART is great (well, has the potential for greatness), but I live right by the Iron Horse corridor in Dublin and I work in San Ramon, and the fact that the bike path that connects the two is named after the train that used to run on that right-of-way makes me sad. I want a light rail to run from Livermore to Concord along the Iron Horse right-of-way, ideally without compromising bike/pedestrian access along the same right-of-way, and then continue up to Martinez and over the bridge to Benicia, Vallejo, and American Canyon. It could connect to BART at Dublin/Pleasanton, then again at Walnut Creek. It could also connect to Amtrak in Martinez. It would be huge for connectivity throughout the outer East Bay, not to mention the eastern North Bay: the fact that there's no rail access whatsoever to any of that area just north of the Carquinez Strait is absurd and borderline criminal. FFS you have to either catch a SolTrans bus, and good fucking luck with that, or catch the ferry, and why even bother at that point.
Even just that one light rail line could take so much pressure off the 680, especially if the stops were well situated in walkable TODs and convenient to use. But it's never gonna happen because it would have to go through San Ramon, Danville, and Alamo, which are all famous for being full of rich NIMBY dipshits who are so scared of poor people they already shot down a BART extension to San Ramon in recent decades.
The easiest way for BART to ring the bay is for BART to simply run CalTrain. Sure it's yet another type of train for BART to operate, but it wouldn't interfere with freight operations or high speed rail. Also if the Dumbarton project is ever built, BART would have a figure 8 around the bay.
Dumbarton project, good catch.
Here's an idea I'll 'float': Ho we about another Trans Bay Tube in the area of the San Mateo Toll Bridge? This could funnel connection traffic ⛔ from SFO and they could renovate the Hayward station in the East Bay Also a train called the SFOakland to connect the 2 Airports! Just a thought!
IMO the obvious solution is to use the upgraded and hopefully eventually grade separated Caltrain corridor just for high speed rail and complete BART around the Bay for local service. Of course paying for it.......
Why not heighten BART station ceilings and tunnels and regauge all tracks to enable fullsize single-decker commuter trains (like RER, NJ Transit, LIRR, London Metropolitan and District Lines, Asian Metros) to run on all BART tracks? After all, BART trains are already almost as wide (10'6") as fullsize North American trains (10'8").
If you look at Asian metros, the rolling stock is built to mainline dimensions except sometimes with 3rd rail. Because of that, in Japan, mainline trains can actually through-run into metros. Also, mainline freight used to run on the Metropolitan Line in London.
Basically, let's turn BART into an RER.
@@00crashtest I don't see any reason you can't run any train car body you want on BART tracks you just need to install bogies with the correct gauge and install BART electrical pickups.
@@cduemo The BART tunnels and station ceiling over tracks at select stations are too low. BART's structure gauge is only 10'6" tall, whereas a standard mainline single-decker passenger railcar has its roof at 12'10" (Amtrak Amfleet, LIRR M7) high.
An LIRR EMU and an Amtrak train without the locomotive can definitely fit in the Market Street subway+its stations and the Transbay Tube, but can't fit in Lake Merritt Station or the Berkeley Hills Tunnel due to the low vertical clearance.
BART Phase 3 of Silicon Valley West To Cupertino, Los Gatos and Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk via Highway 17 with San Francisco City Bay Area Rapid Transit Subway
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I took bart once, the year it opened and that was enough public transit for me
What was wrong with it?
If BART around the Bay is a pipe dream, then 3 BART loops is on a level of delusional but could see many benefits. Now, you would be able to create full service with redundant trains to accommodate the traffic that passes through the major city centers with San Jose being a weird exception because of the VTA network. The main transfer stations would be in the East Bay and San Francisco primarily, but you can have a Silicon Valley (Or San Jose) Loop - connecting Millbrae to San Jose/Santa Clara, an East Bay Crossing Loop (Or Tri-Valley) - connecting Dublin to Antioch, and a North Bay Crossing Loop (Or San Pablo Bay) - connecting Hayward to Napa Valley to come back into San Francisco via Embarcadero, Balboa Park, or Daly City with a station at the Center for Performing Arts.
I wish Sacramento would build underground and expand their transit
Yeah it would be nice...
If any extension north up the peninsula it should go underground under the El Camino Real so as to relieve pressure on Caltrain/HSR line. I'm really curious how Caltrain with its multiple levels of service and frequent stops is going to work with CA HSR, they don't seem to be adding additional track to the Caltrain line.
@The Four Foot : Could you speculate why the extension doesn't go into SJC as it does with SFO? Since it appears that it won't, will there be some sort of a connector (similar to the one for OAK)? Thank you.
If BART ever extends from Santa Clara, it should turn and go out Stevens Creek Blvd.
Checking in from the future. How's that BART extension going folks?
2:05 - SAP Center, home of the NHL san jose Sharks
This probably is going to be the last BART extension, if more are going to be constructed then they'll just use a DMU system just like the eBART extension east of Pittsburgh Bay Point.
Well the Livermore extension would probably be BART. Officials at BART have shown that it would be stupid to have a 2 stop DMU line. If EBart was used in Livermore a new station would need to be built in Dublin Pleasanton plus the Livermore station. Their also is no yard on the blue line so an extension could include a yard. EBart In Pittsburgh Bay Point makes sense as just past the EBART yard their is a freight line that the EBART trains could use to continue to Brentwood. Now a big reason why BART to Livermore would makes sense is the BART to ACE connection which could fix the problems in the Altamont pass. Another potential BART extension is the proposed extension north of Richmond or a spur from El Cerrito Del Norte going north. The last new BART proposal is the Geray subway in SF.
@@G-546 good points👍. Although i did want the livermore extension to be approved in 2018 but dat didn't happen, hopefully they'll reconsider soon
I’m no fan of eBart and I hope they don’t replicate it. On the other hand, BART to Livermore and Geary street, I say BUILD IT!
wtx Luq if more people are moving into the Central Valley I think that it will be considered again.
They're planning to build a new transbay tube, eventually. Would probably include new stops in Oakland and Alameda, and might include an extension down Geary and 19th avenue in SF.
Hi, my name is Tate Baugh. I am an expert on public transit. I rode on BART train a lot.
Cut and cover is the way to cut costs here. There’s already going to be so much disturbance along the route just go all the way
Why not a tunnel underneath Route 82 / the El Camino Real? I know that'll be wicked expensive, enough to be undoable 🙁
Unpopular opinion: bart-around-the-bay may be better suited to follow the 280 corridor as it has much more room for future growth of the region than the 101 corridor does. That said, I obviously would support doing both, but when you're competing against heavily subsidized highways that isn't really possible.
BART around the Bay is not a blue elephant, but the Loch Ness Monster-you’ll never see it. BART to San Francisco Airport cost $100 per passenger transported, and nearly bankrupted San Mateo Transit District until their messy legal divorce. It cost ~$1 Billion per mile to build. The Peninsula does not have the housing for the ridership that would justify the cost.
The Swiss built a 35 mile long tunnel through the mountains for about $300 million per mile. $1 billion per mile is ludicrous.
@@MrVenona It's complicated: land acquisition accounts for a big part of the cost. Another reason is that practice makes perfect. I have family living near 2nd Ave in NYC, and the cost of building the subway and extending 7 are both similar to BART costs. Building subway in the US is so expensive in part because of the lack of practice. As far as I can recall, until extending 7, NYC hasn't built subways since lines under Roosevelt Island in the 1980s. I love your example, especially since a friend works as a tunnel logistics architect for SBB.
I feel like a better direction for bart than around the bay would probably be to Santa Cruz. That would definitely be more compelling for commuters than taking highway 17
After a few years I'm finally coming around to Santa Clara BART, but no further please. Electric Caltrain will have the potential to run with 5 minute headways and with far larger trains than BART too; SJC needs a people mover to connect between the VTA "Airport/Metro" and Santa Clara stations. Rather than loop the Bay with BART, we should loop the Bay with Regional Rail on all the former SP lines. Light Rail down Stevens Creek and El Camino would be nice too.
SF definitely needs another BART line or two, they want housing and growth but anti displacement at the same time so nothing gets done lol
Something I really, really think is pointless is the weird "Not-ACE" Valley Link project; would not mind a video on that can of worms!
For sure a people mover between the stations and the airport would be awesome. Expanding electric regional rail would also be fantastic. Also, I almost forgot about the ACE Valley Link. A video about that could probably be arranged lol
@@TheFourFoot Oh yeah, UP has been looking to ditch their Peninsula freight route. There were three short lines that were interested, but I haven't heard anything since 2018.
I have an alternative, probably cheaper idea. Build a viaduct for the VTA light rail line to run directly into the terminals and maybe under the runways to Santa Clara station. That’s probably better than a proprietary people mover. And instead of running a stub service like the Almaden Shuttle that failed, run direct services to Downtown (maybe built a loop/ terminating platform at Diridon Station for that service). Suddenly, you have direct services to downtown and easy transfers to BART/ Caltrain. Heck, maybe just improve the buses. The current 60 bus from SJC already connects to BART at Milpitas and Caltrain/ Capitol Corridor at Santa Clara. Maybe run another bus downtown could be a short term solution.
Sounds like a good idea to me! They could also extend the light rail west of Santa Clara station, to say Cupertino. Just a thought lol
Considering Oakland Airport “Air Bart” cost ~$500 million, I’m not optimistic that suburban-sprawl Santa Clara County voters would fund any infrastructure.
Wish they could extend into davis california..
Why does it take the United States about 10 years to do an extension of a subway/metro line? In China, within 30 years an entire subway system just began in Shanghai, and now it's the largest subway system in the world. It is now bigger in terms of miles/kilometers than the New York subway. California is a state where people support public transportation. So again I ask why it takes so long for the United States to build any kind of new rail system. It's a shame.
Because China does not have to worry about things like property rights, environmental mitigation, and other issues. Behind the fast progress is thousands irreversible damage to thousands of years culture, nature, and traditions both individual and collective.
Labor unions... Authority... it is the remnants of communism
Property rights? When I was a child the state condemned my parents house and the two acres it sat to build a four lane highway. So the United States does the same thing. As for environmental issues using mass transit whether it be subways or high speed rail is good for the environment having less automobiles on the road. Here's the real difference the USA wants to pretend is being fair to everyone and is concerned about individual rights and the environment. So there are several years of study and public participation and the powers to be do what they want anyway. They just delay the inevitable.
Thanks for the video. I'd like to suggest that you consider slowing down with the pace of future videos. You speak very quickly and there is a lot of information being communicated both with your voiceover, as well as on-screen. Maps and other diagrams are shown for just a split second which gave me little time to digest what was being communicated before the information was gone and there was new info on the screen. Refer to the B1M channel for a pace that works much better, avoiding the need to pause/rewind constantly throughout the video.
I will experiment with slowing it down a bit. It’s a delicate balance trying to keep the pace up and not boring, but still informative.
@@TheFourFoot Thanks for the reply. Agree there is a balance to be struck and I appreciate your consideration!
What a great way to get fans to and from Sharks and Earthquakes games. Too bad Oakland was so short sighted and let the Raiders and the Warriors get away.
Giants blocked the A's from moving to San Jose. I wish I knew where the San Jose field would have been built.
For all the loop/Caltrain overlap with BART, why not push BART more along the 280 corridors or make it follow a similar ROW to CalTrain but have CalTrain reduce to ~4 stops to speed up travel? I can also speak from experience that a "redundant" system following CalTrain would be REALLY helpful. Back when I rode packed trains were super frustrating... That being said it is all hypothetical!
Looking at that BART map, are they actually planning on extending out to Stockton? I don’t remember them ever planning to do that
No lol, but they are planning on building a station to link up with ACE.
@@TheFourFoot oh makes sense
Logistically, CHSR needs to be strictly on it's own grade and line in it's entirety, never touching pre-existing road or trackway.
Totally disagree. Interlining with “low” (100km/h +) speed lines to provide better access can provide huge value at the ends of service runs.
@@jackgibbons6013 That ease of access can easily be done even using entirely it's own grade. Whether under or overground level (grade), it's easy and not much more cost to build a intermodal station or a station/stop which has elevators, ramps escalators and/or stairs, even if it's built under or over pre-existing roadways. So doing that would therefore do exactly what you are claiming only being built at grade can do. Just takes looking a little further than the surface and past the cliche boundaries the developers and politicians put up as if they're real for showing us.
The reality of why they do that is because they don't want to build this in a efficient or sensible way made to help us and give us something we need, but really, to serve as both a source for kickback paychecks from the big developers, to gentrify the hell out of the corridors and areas it runs through and to stand as some grand statue/achievement to their supposed greatness, success and "legacy". Basically to embellish their biography for once they die and make it have some opulence. Some flash.
The thumbnail is unrealistic because of how much space there actually is between Millbrae and Santa Clara. The BART map isn't to scale in that area, so I would prefer to simply let Caltrain handle that traffic.
If the VTA were serious about cutting costs, then they wouldn't be building stations so deep and be trying to construct as much as possible on viaducts, or, if they have to, construct tunnels at cut and cover.
It's like the VTA is going out of its way to make sure absolutely no one is inconvenienced by the project. But this is further complicating the project with funding and engineering challenges, not to mention the low density of the area anyway.
The project could be built faster and with less money if it wasn't constructed like it is
Be nice if the Blue line goes to Stockton as well of the yellow line could meet up with the Blue line to transfer connect. As well of a additional lines of having Blue connect to Stockton to the City. As well of a Blue line to San Jose, but would be a completely different line as well. As well of another line connect out to the valley of going to Fresno of having it go to San Jose or the City or to Fresno to Sacramento to transfer connect in downtown Sacramento with the red and orange lines with other new additional lines in downtown Sacramento to the airport. As well to having Bart connect down to South San Jose to Gilroy to Hollister to Salinas to Monterey. As well Bart connect to Marin County to Ukiah of a final stop line. As well Bart connect to Sonoma to Napa County to Solano County but it will cost so much billions to do electric original permanent Bart stations as need to figure out on taxes and planning for it to work. As well Bart connecting around the Bay as with new additional lines to downtown San Jose on the 680 side of towns all the way to Benicia to Vallejo to final the end of the line to a transfer point connection. The rest Bart meets up with Amtrak and Caltrain and ACE and Smart and high speed rail to connect as transfer points.
I really don't understand why so few stations are being built though, surely they can accommodate more than just 4 give how long the extension is
Costs. Especially, being underground through San Jose. Also, BART is not like any ordinary heavy rail network, it runs more like a commuter system, so distancing stops between each other is crucial
Santa Clara and San Mateo County are not forward thinkers. I remember when they both turned down BART and being upset at their decision even though I was just a kid at the time.
It'd become too expensive to even do. Just taking it into Downtown SJ is a hassle but with pricing skyrocketing in Silicon Valley, they would be better off upgrading CalTrain
The biggest mistake was BART using a different gauge and use of third rail on their system, they would have been able to easily make trough service with other lines just like Japan, avoiding those kind of problems like those mentioned in the final part of the video.
but the thing about using a different gauge and a third rail is that now those bart tracks are set in stone. It's hard to cancel them now that they're there.
So basically what should have been done back in the 70's when it would've cost less.
That's politics for you
What about high speed rail the bullet train that is coming to California
San Mateo county resident here! Great coverage and visuals - don’t be afraid to engage w the structural racist legacies of transit. San Mateo County specifically opted out of BART bc suburban residents feared Black people from Oakland “infiltrating” their white suburbs. Plz call it how it is bc transit rejuvenation goes hand in hand with unrooting systemic racism
Oh you’re absolutely right, and I should have. I want this channel to be explicitly left-wing, and I’m still trying to develop a tone that is historically accurate without being too hyperbolic.
We, the Alameda County tax payers were promised 3 BART stations in Fremont at last BART extension. What happened to the Irvington Station?
Maybe construction will start in 2022 and complete in 2026? Yikes lol
BART can easily loop around the Bay Area
i wish BART would extend from Pleasanton out to Tracy. why are they not working on that?
That’s definitely worth doing a video on in the future. I know they’re working on something with ACE.
The problem with bart is there’s homeless people doing drugs on the train and people are often robbed on train or at the station. Whenever I bring this up people try to gaslight me and say this isn’t a real problem.
how about a san frascico airport - oakland aitport second crossing of the bay.
That would be excellent lol. Definitely in addition to, not in lieu of restoring the Dumbarton line
@@TheFourFoot where else would that line go do you think.
Oakland, Stockton, Sacramento? Take your pick lol. Yes, obviously you can reach all those places by transferring at Diridon, but trimming a half hour plus off of each trip would be huge. It would also create more regional type service instead of being strictly commuter rail.
Unfortunately, 101 has no space for a median, let alone an entire transit line. If Caltrain were to do something like E-Bart and just rebranded the trains and merged agencies, that would be more realistic, given the money put into the electrification.
I think you should do an Oregon Salem to Portland video
Single bore with those giant stations is a mistake. This should be a cut and cover project with small station footprints close to the surface. The current price tag for this project is also absurd. The whole thing needs to be redesigned.
Agreed. It was a last minute change and think, are there many San Jose downtown stores left now after COVID quarantine? The people that bullied the project into single bore and now mostly out of business anyways. Way lame.
agreed. would love to see an elevated design which would cost less and complete faster than their single bore subway design.
@@jtown408 That's actually a great idea. Works well in Taipei and Bangkok
actually more than a decade.... opening could be in more than a decade due to delays
Its nice an all but I never use BART, I am just patiently waiting for Caltrain to be electrified....
Any day now, it’s gonna become a reality lol
@@TheFourFoot I wont bet on it, probably be done next decade hahaha
Basically lol
"Phase 1 of this project included two new stations and ten miles of track, and it opened in June of 2020."
[pregnant pause]
Caltrains rail from wat is been said is NOT compatible with high speed rail…I don’t know where you got that info that it is compatible
Yes it is compatible lol.
@@merk5384 so why are they building a completely different system now not using the Caltrain rail for high speed…that would have saved billions not only on the track but eminent domain aswell, make it make sense
@@kalb.3002 They are using Caltrain for part of the high speed rail to SF. The remainder remaining few hundred miles needs to be built as there is no already existing tracks that can be leveraged. That's why caltrain was electrified was for HSR. Caltrain only runs from SF to Gilroy, less than 100 miles of the journey.
Strong disagree about running bart in highway medians. Imo better to not have transit than to have highway median stations
Four Foot - Caltrain (SF), is consindering Merging with BART SF and creating ONE Agency operating both Trains.
Seems REDUNDANT as BART Already operates in San Mateo / SF Airport and Caltrain does the same , but does not go to the Airport , but Caltrain does go all the Way to San Jose, and is Currently being converted to ALL Electric.
I think a Better solution is Boring Co LOOP tunnels from SF to SJ and even LA /LV.
the cars can FAST Travel up to 200+ mph and only need to Surface to Supercharge, However most TESLA can Travel over 400+ miles on a Charge, plenty to get to SF to LA.
Car boring?... Please tell you don't believe that BS?...
Bart using a different gauge and third rail makes it impossible to run on Caltrain's tracks. I wonder why it's chosen to be that way from the beginning?
From the stimulus..
But with electric Caltrain we don't need Bart around the Bay. Completely unnecessary.
Lots of good info, but it sounds like mostly a rewrite of Agency handouts
Yeah I guess I should have played up how many people the BART police have arrested in the last decade to support a baseless claim that BART is too dangerous to exist, or featured a plumber who likes to run his mouth talking about how public transit ridership was down in 2020, so we should never build anymore public transit, instead of just sticking to the relevant facts of a subway line that will be built and giving my thoughts on it. I know it’s not very exciting, but that’s what local news is for, bud.
won't happen for another ten years....
Great video. Great detail. thanks. But 2030 as a completion date for a 6 mile build? That's embarrassing. American infrastructure builds are so overloaded with bureaucracy and stalling. You can't help think that its on purpose to steal as much tax money as possible and to explain the almost assuredly coming cost overruns. The Chinese will build a 100 mile extension to the Shenzhen metro in the next two years. They will also finish the space station in two more years. Why can't our civilization expand at that rate? Why are we holding back our own country?
Labor unions...
This would Ruin the Purpose of Caltrain if the Green And Orange Line Connects to the Red And Yellow Line
2:11 - LOL do they hate passengers? SEVEN minutes for a transfer?