The tale of the 1973 stock, the trains built to serve Heathrow Airport (which opened in 1946, not 1976). Ko-Fi: ko-fi.com/jago... Patreon: / jagohazzard
What do I think? I think TfL should make their excellent "step-free tube map" available at Heathrow. You know, that place where loads of people have big, heavy bags that they don't want to haul up some Victorian staircase.
More Met-Camm finery; cheers for this one Jago. :) It's one of those train designs that's aged really well and doesn't look dated (much like the Class 47 diesels, which will be 60 years old next month). The 1967/72/73 stock all still look modern even today. A testament to the design of Sir Misha Black, the engineering/build quality of Metro-Cammell and the LU maintanance crews that they've stood the test of time as well as they have, both in aesthetic and practical terms.
I agree with you that it was a very good design and it has aged gracefully, being a particularly receptive shell to updates and overhauls. However, the overall design is undoubtedly dated. The shape, the interior and exterior lighting, the wayfinding and visibility are all from days long past, which was inevitable. That's not to say that I don't appreciate the 73 stock, especially its comfort and reliability, but one look at it immediately identifies it as a product of its era (albeit a good one).
The tube trains we use in Hong Kong are also built by Met-Camm. They have been running for 40 years now and still going incredibly strong. Very impressive engineering indeed.
47 is a good shout, it just suites every livery I have ever seen it in, and it looks SO different between them. As far as things ageing gracefully, the Class 08 gets my nod, basically a mid 1930s design still doing it's thing and not looking out of place doing it.
Used these trains for over twenty years, every day on my way to work. That's over 7000 journeys. The only time there was a problem with them, was when there was a power cut and I was stuck in the tunnel for four hours. Which wasn't really the train's fault.
These days they do have a tendancy to get square wheels (usually after a heavy rain knocks leaves onto the line) but again that's a maintenance/track clearing issue rather than the qnything with the trains themselves
Agree, the trains are nice. When using the line, one does not get the impression that they are outdated at all. Wouldn't have had a problem with them staying on after some refurbishments.
@@Eddyspeeder In my time in London I got the impression that they were extremely dated. They just feel old especially as newer trains come onto other lines, and the serial light flickering really made them seem aged and unstable.
I can remember when the 1959 Stock still ran on the Piccadilly Line, before transferring to the Northern, although some 1973 Stock trains were on test in 1975. The transition was a lengthy one, with one or two 1956/59 Stock still running after the Heathrow extension opened to the airport in December 1977 (from Hatton Cross to Heathrow Central Station, now Terminals 2 & 3, though the signs still show Terminal 1, which has since closed).
Air Koryo has never served Heathrow, therefore Heathrow will never be based. Air Koryo is a supreme airline with the finest Antonovs, Tupolevs, and Ilyushins as part of our fleet.
I think for now the 73 stock should remain as it is functionable and would save TFL quite a bit and at this present time they cannot afford it. I briefly worked for an engineering company that made the doors for the Piccadilly line. Everything had to be so precise and went through different stages of inspections
I'm embarrassed to say that as a kid in the late seventies I thought that poster with the airline nose cones on the front of 3 tube trains was an actual PR stunt that you could see on the Underground. I kept dragging my poor dad onto the Piccadilly in the hope that I could see the funny aircraft nose cones on the front of a Piccadilly Line train, but we never did for some reason. Thanks for the video. Also, I'm sure you know this already but theres a mockup of a new tube for London cab or front bit in the Design Museum if you need some B-roll. The Design Museum that used to be the Commonwwealth Institute... is there a video in that?? Kids from London of a certain age seem to remember the New Zealand Cow...
The NZ Cow.....we have a few million here...mostly Friesians or Jerseys. Could you be a bit more specific.....eartag number would help. ...says LeviNZ.
@@neville132bbk Thanks - It was a giant display called NEW ZEALAND and it was shaped like a cow. It had buttons that lit up portions of its stomach, I think to show its digestive system. Alas, the lights were clearly so dazzling that I didn't learn the breed that gave its pretend cavity such entertainment.
Plausible. As a kid in the early 1960s I was excited to visit New York which I was told had ‘skyscrapers’. I expected to see tall buildngs with some sort of machinery atop to scrape the sky. It was a bitter disappointment to find just tall buildings.
If you notice this comment, I don't suppose you can find an image of that poster online and share a link? I'd love to see it. And for this American: what in the world is the New Zealand Cow?
Brilliant video, the 1973 tube stock is one of my favourites on the underground, it still looks almost like a new train as the refurb in 1996 has done these trains good. I'm gonna be sad when they are replaced by the new tube trains.
The refurbished 1973 TS may look new especially the interior, however the dead give-away are the sounds it makes. I was born in London way back in July 1974; thus grew up with Underground trains in the unpainted aluminium livery, thus I have never liked the modernisation of the Underground with characterless digital trains in the red white and blue corporate livery. The 1973 TS trains looked their best from 1975 when deliveries began, until about 1985 when their bodies were silver aluminium colour, though this livery lasted until about 1997 but were showing their age.
I joined the Piccadilly Line in 1976 while the 73s were still being introduced. The monitoring equipment was noted for giving false indications. More than once the panel of the train I was driving showed a fault while the seat of my pants told me everything was OK. The panel was supplied through printed circuit boards, most probably fine in a clean stable working environment, everything that an underground train is not.
Memories of riding the Piccadilly Line at 7 in the morning into London in the 80s, out of my head with tiredness after insomniac overnight flights from the Middle East or the USA, the long waits at the baggage carousels, and tedious discussions with customs officers as to whether tax had been paid on a walkman or a camera or whether the aspirins in my suitcase were illegal drugs. I doubt I would have noticed the interior decor of the 1973 stock much, tho' I guess the luggage space was useful. It could have been a cattle truck for all I'd have cared. I do recall the torture of the iffy and noisy ride quality (rattle rattle rattle, bang, thump, squeal) and the seemingly endless stops before Acton Town. Change onto the District Line at Barons Court, thence to Embankment and the joy of lugging three suitcases up Villiers Street and the bloody steps up to Charing Cross station to get the 'main line service' back to the Kent Coast.
Really feel the Acton Town point. There seems to be two types of Piccadilly line user - those that live at or inside Acton Town and think it's a super-fast shuttle into London, and people who live outside it and think it's a cold, tedious stop-and-start slog of a train.
I remember as a young lad, having a day trip out to Heathrow in 1978 - during the school summer holidays. Heathrow Station and the Piccadilly Line trains seemed like something from a futuristic, space-age world; compared to my local Shadwell Station (with water running down the walls); and the older 1930's(?) trains that served the decrepit East London Line. The 1973 Stock is such a superb, creative design. Many thanks for this video Jago.
If the proposed replacement stock doesn't consume significantly less energy, and the current trains can be updated just a tiny bit, I think replacement is a waste of money, resources etc. And aesthetically, they are definitely pleasing.
I imagine that would not have been a priority - in fact I expect that new trains use exactly the same amount of power but now include air-conditioning and regenerative braking (which should produce less heat). Trains that run all day for 40-50 years will be expensive to maintain though. Although they will probably be refurbished and sent somewhere else in the world!
@@hairyairey underground stock is very particular, it often can't even be used on other lines of London Underground, I'm not sure there's much demand for such trains in the world, as most countries where second-hand trains and buses are common, underground railways are rather rare, and often come with a grant from China, which includes Chinese rolling stock, of course. But I agree, replacement shouldn't be a priority, especially for a cash-strapped TfL.
@@barvdw You'll be surprised, recycled tube trains are already running on the Isle of Wight and the Marston Vale line. The latter has diesel engines now!
@@hairyairey the isle of Wight is quite known, but that's what, 4 trains? I was thinking of something more substantial. Marston Vale I didn't know (anymore), thanks.
@@barvdw Marston Vale isn't likely to be more than 4 trains either. Runs between Bedford and Bletchley however if the East-West link from Cambridge-Oxford is built (and would be successful on freight traffic alone) that line may be electrified and newer rolling stock introduced.
A few fun facts Mr J..... Before the 73 stock arrived the Piccadilly Line was worked by all the 1956 & 1959 stock plus 15 trains of 1938 stock! These were the first to be replaced by 1973 stock and the idea was to have all 73s in service by the time the Heathrow Extension opened...... It wasn't to be and so around half a dozen 1959's worked to Heathrow and had LT Aldenham Bus Overhaul Works paper & linen blinds fitted (rather than the more expensive Kelbus plastic blinds usually used on the Underground at this time) as Heathrow (complete with aeroplane in blue square moteif at one side) wasn't on the original blinds...... Another fact, both the Piccadilly Line western branches were District Line (Railway originally) branches, and until the late 1960s the District still ran through to Hounslow West in the peaks.......
I just wonder how practical it would be to bore out or add new tunnels to Heathrow, suitable for the S stock, with the S stock sharing that branch, as it shares the track from Rayners Lane to Uxbridge.
I remember those old trains pre '73 stock. My mind is telling me that they were crimson (or even sometimes green?). . They were SO basic & used to throw you around. I knew no alternative -- until I changed at Finsbury Park & got a Victoria Line train - they seemed supersonic in comparison !
@@trevorelliston1 Very expensive I fear. This was perhaps a missed opportunity when the line was originally built; much easier to build large tunnels initially than to enlarge them later. But it was the 1970s and finance was short.
The 1973’s with a upgrade could continue to run until 2035-40 at least! They’re far more sturdy than the 1972’s, which are in dire need of a replacement! Considering TfL’s long term ambitions to extend the Bakerloo they should get the 2024’s first, then the Piccadilly then the Central/Waterloo & City, on another note, it was rather short sighted to withdraw the District line from Hounslow in many ways, the District should have been extended to Heathrow since they have bigger trains, but the Piccadilly is the “express” tube so it gives tourists the illusion of being on a “fast” train to London’s West End on the cheap
J. Graeme Bruce (a former COO of LU) once said that his biggest regret was not diverting the District Line to Hounslow West...and making the Hounslow West to Heathrow Link big enough for Subsurface Stock. Regardless at least the Elizabeth Line service to Heathrow will repair that mistake. Although I do wish that a Future Government would upgrade the GWML between Paddington & Reading to 6-Track (thus meaning that a 12-15tph service would be possible from the EL Core to Heathrow).
While I’ll be sad to see them go, I’d say the 1972 Stock really ought to go *first*. They may have that nostalgic feeling - but a big part of that is that they’re old and in dire need of replacement by the 2024 Stock. The 1973s, refurbished a mere quarter-century ago, can ably hang on a little longer I’m sure. As noted, they do what they’re meant to do perfectly well; due for replacement, sure, but not falling apart. Great video as always!
Okay so here is my two cents in this argument, I agree about your comments. I use the Piccadilly line all the time (most weekends) okay so the lights flick on and off occasionally that's about it. The Bakerloo line, I almost never use, however I did last weekend. This one time I used it, the door closing sound didn't work on pretty much the whole carriage and less than half the lights worked the whole time I was on the train. To give you an idea I got on at Edgware road and off at Piccadilly Circus and boy was I glad to.
I was wondering why the Piccadilly Line trains were next in line for an upgrade instead of the older Bakerloo Line ones when Jago annoyingly - oh, all right, helpfully, promptly proceeded to explain. Wheelchair access at Heathrow notwithstanding, I still think it would be better for the Bakerloo Line trains to be upgraded first, even if I do quite enjoy their slightly dishevelled upholstery. The presence of the full Elizabeth Line should hopefully make wheelchair access to and from Heathrow less of an issue.
Upgrading Bakerloo doesn’t seem necessary; it’s passenger numbers are far less than the Piccadilly and only 6 of its 25 stations are solely run by it (meaning you could get other services to a large majority of the stations). It’s essentially a shuttle from Queens Park to Elephant and Castle, since you can get the Overground to Harrow and W. It would be a wasted investment to upgrade the Bakerloo before the Piccadilly.
@@zeligdaniels Being controversial (and boring!) here the best upgrade to the Bakerloo line would be to increase the diameter of its tunnels so that it no longer has to run the tiniest trains. That's only 14 miles of tunnels to expand (nearly half the overall line length). I note that the proposed extension is being built with 6 metre wide tunnels (5 metres usable instead of less than 4).
I do~n't think jago said anything about overhauling the line just the 73 stock. Now if you're not referring to that nevermind what I said and pretend I didn't reply. Then again I might have missed the part of the video you're talking about.
There was a plan to resignal the line along with the new air conditioned walk through trains, but this was put on hold. This was confirmed in the TfL financial settlement with the government on 30 August 2022. Nevertheless, TfL is still meant to investigate the possibility of driverless trains!
Frankly, I thoroughly enjoyed exploring London via Tube trains when I passed through in 1970 & 73. Being from Chicago, I was used to the "L" (elevated) lines with cars the size of VW buses. Your system worked and generally ran on time; ours's not so much.
Very interesting, I'm not particularly clued up on tube stock but have ridden my fair share of 1973 stock on my way to and from Hatton Cross for a bit of aircraft spotting when I've been in the Big Smoke. I like them, though would welcome anything with air conditioning...
If it was up to me, this would be my plan 1) Order 2024 stock trains for the Bakerloo line, so the 1972 stock can be scrapped 2) Order a second mid-life refurbishment for the 1973 stock to last for about 20 more years 3) Order a second batch of 2024 stock trains for the Central line so their 1992 stock can be scrapped 3) Order a third batch of 2024 stock trains for the Waterloo & City line so their 1992 stock can also be scrapped 4) Order a fourth and final batch of 2024 stock trains for the Piccadilly line to allow the 1973 stock trains to be scrapped after 50-70 years (in that alternative timeline)
Was on a 73 stock earlier today. Fantastic trains that can still do the job they were designed for. Hopefully they will be kept longer. Why spend money on new trains if the current can still do the job they were designed to do.
I have drove these trains for the past 25 years along with 72's 59's & 62's and along with driving days on A,C.D and S stock.I do love the73's but alas we are looking now at the 24 stock (The compuer said no)! Only time will tell. I will miss them.....
To me it seems TfL need to reassess the length of its cars. Merseyrail did this making them shorter. It may mean trains being interchangeable between the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines.
Should it stay or should it go now? If it stays there may be trouble, but if it goes there may be double. By that I mean, the added cost of building wholly new trains and scrapping existing stock would outstrip the cost of retrofitting a train that has a proven track record on the line it serves.
Keeping them as spares as first can work. As for scrapping... well feel like just better to sell them off for them to find other uses like the pacers have.
Last time I flew to London (from Canada) I tapped the Oyster Card TfL had helpfully sent me a couple of weeks earlier and trundled in to town. My hotel was in Earl's Court, just around the corner from the station. You'd almost think I planned it that way... As a foreigner with an outrageous accent my view is "if it ain't broke don't fix it". Londoners may feel differently.
I have very fond memories of the Piccadilly Line (and subsequently 1973 stock) from when I lived in (North) London. Gonna say that I’d like them to stay, because as you say, they have aged very well and can keep pace, but of course they want to be seen as “investing in the railway” so that’ll never happen!
@1:30, back then the airport was little more than a field with a big shed serving as the terminal. For years, "London" airpot was the only one. Now all of the airports that ring the capital are prefixed London.
While extra space was kept in mind in the design of 1973 stocks, I've always wondered if London Transport back then have ever considered bringing sub-surface trains (say the District Line) to Heathrow for even more space on the trains instead?
The former 1962 Craven's stock were a rare and beautiful thing . A video of former Wembley stadium railways,empire exhibition and the Never stop railway would be delightful.
I wholeheartedly agree with your observations about this stock; it has survived the test of time and could last until 2030 with a bit of TLC. I remember riding these when they were brand new when I took full advantage of the GLC (as was) Fares Fare scheme, riding them from my (then) base North Ealing to Cockfosters & back. They sounded different too compared to the 1959/62 stock as they passed over the non-welded track sections: suddenly you had a tidy ‘1,2-3,4’ clackedy-clack instead of a ‘1,2 . . 3,4,5’ of the older trains. . . but no-one else ever noticed. 😉
I shall lament the passing of the 1973 stock. Many times have I used it on the Piccadilly line for airport access and other travel related business. It still seems very much up to it's design brief and still a capable set of drive units and carriages. I really do think that the poor old Bakerloo line stock rattling and clattering its way into the 21st century should definitely be replaced before anything else. The Piccadilly line can wait for a bit....
Hey Jango... How about look at the various train termination sidings of the underground. As this is something we don't usually see that interesting and would be great.. the 1973 stock ... still fab!
This one takes one back, having to get off at the end of the underground and get on a bus to get to Heathrow. Only did it once, after that I drove down to pick-up my sister and bring her back for her flight to Gibraltar. Next time I used the underground the train took you all the way into the airport with a choice of terminals to get off on. Still took forever thought when you started out from Kings Cross.
When I caught a flight from Heathrow in 1975, you had to get the A1 bus from Hounslow to the airport. It was difficult to find my way around all the building work going on.
I remember the curious excitement of walking up to Hounslow West, walking down that horrible asbestos shed they put up to connect to the new platforms, and the market that was taking place in the car park. There is a constant hum of electricity, burnt dust, ozone and then the raw thunder as one of these things rolled in. I live a long way away now and it will be sad when these things are gone.
I know deep level trains are tiny compared to those on the sub-surface lines, but is there anyway these 73’s could be upcycled and redeployed like the old D-stock units became the class 230
Given how poorly the 230s are performing, when they're actually performing at all, I doubt that would be a good idea. I don't think TfW's managed to get even one of theirs into service yet.
I remember what i think were the 73 stock being stored at Bicester Army depot, for many years in the mid 70s ,at the time my uncle was a driver on the depot railway and i was told they were beimg stored because they were out of gauge for some of the tunnels.
The 1973 stock interior wasn't originally built for airline passengers, no extra luggage space or racks were provided when compared to the previous designs, the 1967/1972 stock. It was only in the midlife refurbishment that these trains were bought up to scratch.
They did have luggage provision before refurbishment, although it wasn't much. There were quite large standback areas next to the doors compared to other stocks.
If it is doing the job it needs to do, it should be kept. Not being funny, but the replacement of aged BR trains hasn't exactly seen things get better - and perhaps there are other areas where money could be better spent?
Tube trains are supposed to be red, like1938 stock, and proper London buses! It all started to go down-hill in the 1960s. As for blue stripes, well... 🤣🤣
When I was a lad it wasn't called Heathrow just: London Airport and me and my mates used to spend a day there at the open balcony - now long gone for security reasons - watching the planes land and take off. It was a great day out. Nowadays it's just an irksome chore one has to go through to get to the country you want to go to.
They are still running well on the Piccadilly line. Extensively refurbished with the internal seating changed to longitudinal seating only and extra space by the doors for luggage
Fond memories of going out from North London to Heathrow Central in the late 1970s after school. Was a great adventure to go and see planes as up to them had never been on one and never thought I would. Ended up working in airfreight industry and been om best part of a thousand flights lot
Such nostalgia , my life revolved around these , growing up. Going to school , out with friends, getting the last one back to Oakwood on a Friday night. Going into uni every day, then going into work. Going on holiday from Heathrow .
I would say, move them to another another line on the tube, get the 2024 stock to come in and move the 1973 stock to the Bakerloo line if it can. I say they do not to be scrapped. they could still use them on the piccadly line when the 2024 stock come in but for staff and maybe if we need any extra trains or if one breaks down?
I grew up in Hounslow West in the 70s and the extension building sites were a bit of a playground for us...none of that health and safety nonsense back then. It was a very exciting time (in 1975) seeing first the new trains, then the new station and then a few days later the opening to Hatton Cross.
I know these trains well, I grew up near to both Northfields and Boston Manor stations so this was first line I ever went on. I miss the front facing seats, I don't miss the wood floor and other design choices that seemed old even in the early 80s.
I reckon there's a good chance that the '73s might get replaced at just the right time. While for the general user there's nothing really wrong with them but there is a number of aspects that we need on the tube that isn't there presently. Things like climate control and easy wheelchair access. Factors that have become far more important then what they would have been say during the renovations. I think the points about the dot matrix screens and rubber floors point to that as well. While there's nothing overly wrong with no information screens and wooden floors. Those older standards just don't meet modern needs. In terms of operation the '73s are brilliant presently. I'd wager covid has done a bit to help prolong their lives a bit further. However, would we be able to say the same thing when their set to be replaced in five years? How about in fifteen years time? While it will be said to see them go, I reckon the changes will come at the right time. While we will all have that nostalga for the older stock, as we've seen with the S stock, I doubt anyone would seriously want to go back beyond raw nostalga. Though it would be good if somewhere they are able to still get some use and preservation. The '73 stock have been excellent servants to the needs of passengers and so should be respected beyond their tube life as much as possible.
Just so folk know . . . . For a few years now, there is NO Terminal 1 at Heathrow. The expansion of T2 took some of it over. It seems very strange to me that they didn't then just renumber the terminals 1, 2, 3 & 4. . But no, 2 - 5 it is. Maybe they're keeping their options open for expansion & create a new Terminal 1 ?
Having driven them in a past career,inthink they could stay a few more years whilst the Bakerloo trains are replaced. Good trains to drive in hood weather but tricky in bad.
I think they should go because the holiday demand has gone up so has airport travel so they need new trains to fit that demand but the trains on the Piccadilly line now should go onto the bakerloo line and replace them so its I win win the pic get new trains and so does the bakerloo
Back in the 50's and 60's the likes of BEA and BOAC had central London termini where you could check in, deposit your luggage and be transported to Heathrow by special busses.
I love the Piccadilly Line stock! (I grew up on the Isle of Wight so the 1938 stock is what I knew as a train!). I think it’s great that they might keep the 1973 stock going for almost a decade more!
1973 stock has to go to be replaced by something much better. We need transport fit for the next 50 years not trains designed in the early 1970’s and approaching half a century in service. Better accessibility. More and bigger seats. Air conditioning. Better safety and crash protection. None of this standing up malarky that shouldn’t be encouraged on safety grounds. Imagine what the elf and safety crowd and even the police had to say if they caught a pickup truck travelling at 40mph with six people standing up in its loadbed. Same principle should apply to buses and trains.
No standing on the Underground ... that would be a novel idea ... can't see anyone standing for it though :) When we see how people on platforms will fight their way on to even the tiniest gap in a crowded carriage rather than wait for the next train (which may be equally full). And of course they are already maximum length and maximum frequency so capacity is at its limit.
I'm not a London native but back in the 70s I could quote all the Piccadilly Line stations from Holborn to Heathrow Central without looking at the map. This was down to me being a planespotter - I'd get a Deltic hauled train from Wakefield Westgate to Kings Cross, spend a few days in a cheap hotel and utilise the 73 stock to deliver me to Heathrow Central where the Roof Gardens hosted me for an entire day of Tridents, VC10s, 707s, 747s and best of all, the occasional Concorde. Bloody hell, just writing that last sentence has made me all nostalgic and feel pity for those friends of mine who were more interested in sex and drugs and rock and roll.
Given the ongoing budgeting issues that TFL must endure, it seems sensible to hang onto this stock and refurbish as required. Bakerloo stock: the fine line between quaint and unwieldy seems to have been crossed.
It can be said that 50 years and still going strong for the Piccadilly line stock whereas it can only be said 50 years and still going for the Bakerloo line stock.
Probably is just the curvature in the tunnels - Jago didn't mention it, but wasn't introduction into service of the 73 stock delayed because of them fouling the tunnels somewhere on the route?
Keep 'em going 72's too! I live on the Isle of Wight these days and look how long the 38's lasted! Ok they had to go in the end but I reckon these still have plenty of life in them! I was brought up in South Harrow so travelled on these a lot and earlier in the summer came up and travelled from Ruislip to Hounslow East via Acton Town and back again. Brought back memories. Ps I can recommend the samosas from the kiosk at Acton Town😀
Modern buses also seem to have very small amounts of luggage space compared to what I remember from when I was young (admittedly I am thinking back to buses in Essex rather than London). Most seem to have a row of front seats and a small luggage space, often with a box of metro papers in where the larger luggage space used to be on Essex buses. You would think they would want to encourage us to use bus and tube to get to airport and mainline station instead of using taxis / driving but making it harder to travel with luggage doesn't help. Add that to stations without step free access to get heavy bags up to platform and the car really starts to appeal.
But now you have the Heathrow Express as well as the Elizabeth Line to take you between Heathrow Airport and London city centre. So I think that it's not necessary to have as much space on the Piccadilly Line any more.
@@mattbosley3531 But the Piccadilly is still very heavily used by airport passengers as it provides a direct no-changes route to various central and outer London locations plus Kings Cross St Pancras. Plus it's much cheaper than the Heathrow Express. So lack of luggage space could be a significant problem in the future.
I like the Bakerloo more than these 1973s but times do move on and change, in in another 50years people will be laughing how the "new tube for London" are so old and need replacing.... I'll be 88 maybe by then so not be bothered lol
I can remember travelling on the 1959 stock, when it was nearly new in the early 60s and on the old '38 stock. Given TFLs current finances, replacement of the 1973 stock, may well be a case pitting the extra maintenance costs of continued use against the cost of capital required to replace them . . .with interest rates rising . . . May be the '73's will be given a stay of execution. Against this is the fact that maintenance costs must be higher for the 73's.I take it that the '73 stock didn't have brushless motors, so maintenance on these would be more costly, along with the higher incidence of fatigue in the older parts and chassis. Hey, but TFL's loss is the Isle of Wight's or some other regional railway's gain.
I always liked the Piccadilly line, and these trains must be a big part of the reason. Plus, Metro Camel, emblazoned as it was on the step of every doorway, is the sort of name which sticks in a young novophile's mind. :p
For some reason, you could never tell that these things were one of the oldest passenger trains in the UK. Pity that they won't be around for much longer
Have you got his book on the 1938 stock? And the two editions of “From Steam to Silver”? All right. I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to the underground..
Probably the best description I ever saw of the Piccadilly line is that it’s basically just a 44 mile extension of the Heathrow baggage carousel 😂
THIS!!!
What do I think? I think TfL should make their excellent "step-free tube map" available at Heathrow. You know, that place where loads of people have big, heavy bags that they don't want to haul up some Victorian staircase.
But nothing says "Welcome to London!" like hauling big, heavy bags up a Victorian staircase
Um, I don't think Heathrow Airport existed in Victorian times.....!
@@davidw1518 unless time machines were used
All Heathrow stations have accessible lifts. Hatton Cross doesn't but thats not part of the Heathrow area.
I have bad knees and this is the bane of my existence!
More Met-Camm finery; cheers for this one Jago. :)
It's one of those train designs that's aged really well and doesn't look dated (much like the Class 47 diesels, which will be 60 years old next month). The 1967/72/73 stock all still look modern even today. A testament to the design of Sir Misha Black, the engineering/build quality of Metro-Cammell and the LU maintanance crews that they've stood the test of time as well as they have, both in aesthetic and practical terms.
I agree with you that it was a very good design and it has aged gracefully, being a particularly receptive shell to updates and overhauls. However, the overall design is undoubtedly dated. The shape, the interior and exterior lighting, the wayfinding and visibility are all from days long past, which was inevitable. That's not to say that I don't appreciate the 73 stock, especially its comfort and reliability, but one look at it immediately identifies it as a product of its era (albeit a good one).
The tube trains we use in Hong Kong are also built by Met-Camm. They have been running for 40 years now and still going incredibly strong. Very impressive engineering indeed.
Anything that is well designed and built and *PROPERLY MAINTAINED* can achieve good long service lives
47 is a good shout, it just suites every livery I have ever seen it in, and it looks SO different between them. As far as things ageing gracefully, the Class 08 gets my nod, basically a mid 1930s design still doing it's thing and not looking out of place doing it.
"There should be a Tube line to the airport!"
"Which airport?"
"You know, THAT airport!"
"...you have to be a little more specific"
"UGGGGH"
Used these trains for over twenty years, every day on my way to work. That's over 7000 journeys. The only time there was a problem with them, was when there was a power cut and I was stuck in the tunnel for four hours. Which wasn't really the train's fault.
These days they do have a tendancy to get square wheels (usually after a heavy rain knocks leaves onto the line) but again that's a maintenance/track clearing issue rather than the qnything with the trains themselves
Or you had a "jumper" than halted everything.
Agree, the trains are nice. When using the line, one does not get the impression that they are outdated at all. Wouldn't have had a problem with them staying on after some refurbishments.
@@Eddyspeeder In my time in London I got the impression that they were extremely dated. They just feel old especially as newer trains come onto other lines, and the serial light flickering really made them seem aged and unstable.
I can remember when the 1959 Stock still ran on the Piccadilly Line, before transferring to the Northern, although some 1973 Stock trains were on test in 1975. The transition was a lengthy one, with one or two 1956/59 Stock still running after the Heathrow extension opened to the airport in December 1977 (from Hatton Cross to Heathrow Central Station, now Terminals 2 & 3, though the signs still show Terminal 1, which has since closed).
Air Koryo has never served Heathrow, therefore Heathrow will never be based. Air Koryo is a supreme airline with the finest Antonovs, Tupolevs, and Ilyushins as part of our fleet.
I can only agree with the supreme leader.
And I’m totally not forced at gunpoint to wrinfhdgrbjdbdndbdhdbfhfbfhf
Kim how did you access to learn about the 1973 stock
Difficult to argue with that Kimmy boy! When u sorting us out lad?
1973 stock should stay.
Lol he's not jong un
I think for now the 73 stock should remain as it is functionable and would save TFL quite a bit and at this present time they cannot afford it. I briefly worked for an engineering company that made the doors for the Piccadilly line. Everything had to be so precise and went through different stages of inspections
I'm embarrassed to say that as a kid in the late seventies I thought that poster with the airline nose cones on the front of 3 tube trains was an actual PR stunt that you could see on the Underground.
I kept dragging my poor dad onto the Piccadilly in the hope that I could see the funny aircraft nose cones on the front of a Piccadilly Line train, but we never did for some reason.
Thanks for the video.
Also, I'm sure you know this already but theres a mockup of a new tube for London cab or front bit in the Design Museum if you need some B-roll.
The Design Museum that used to be the Commonwwealth Institute... is there a video in that??
Kids from London of a certain age seem to remember the New Zealand Cow...
The NZ Cow.....we have a few million here...mostly Friesians or Jerseys. Could you be a bit more specific.....eartag number would help.
...says LeviNZ.
@@neville132bbk Thanks - It was a giant display called NEW ZEALAND and it was shaped like a cow. It had buttons that lit up portions of its stomach, I think to show its digestive system. Alas, the lights were clearly so dazzling that I didn't learn the breed that gave its pretend cavity such entertainment.
Plausible. As a kid in the early 1960s I was excited to visit New York which I was told had ‘skyscrapers’. I expected to see tall buildngs with some sort of machinery atop to scrape the sky. It was a bitter disappointment to find just tall buildings.
If you notice this comment, I don't suppose you can find an image of that poster online and share a link? I'd love to see it.
And for this American: what in the world is the New Zealand Cow?
@@PineappleSkip haha - completely! I feel your pain thanks
Brilliant video, the 1973 tube stock is one of my favourites on the underground, it still looks almost like a new train as the refurb in 1996 has done these trains good. I'm gonna be sad when they are replaced by the new tube trains.
The refurbished 1973 TS may look new especially the interior, however the dead give-away are the sounds it makes. I was born in London way back in July 1974; thus grew up with Underground trains in the unpainted aluminium livery, thus I have never liked the modernisation of the Underground with characterless digital trains in the red white and blue corporate livery. The 1973 TS trains looked their best from 1975 when deliveries began, until about 1985 when their bodies were silver aluminium colour, though this livery lasted until about 1997 but were showing their age.
Indeed, they've aged well, unlike the 1972 trains on the Bakerloo line, which are bouncy and rickety, really showing their age
I joined the Piccadilly Line in 1976 while the 73s were still being introduced. The monitoring equipment was noted for giving false indications. More than once the panel of the train I was driving showed a fault while the seat of my pants told me everything was OK. The panel was supplied through printed circuit boards, most probably fine in a clean stable working environment, everything that an underground train is not.
Yeah, those monitoring systems were stripped out fairly quickly!
Memories of riding the Piccadilly Line at 7 in the morning into London in the 80s, out of my head with tiredness after insomniac overnight flights from the Middle East or the USA, the long waits at the baggage carousels, and tedious discussions with customs officers as to whether tax had been paid on a walkman or a camera or whether the aspirins in my suitcase were illegal drugs.
I doubt I would have noticed the interior decor of the 1973 stock much, tho' I guess the luggage space was useful. It could have been a cattle truck for all I'd have cared. I do recall the torture of the iffy and noisy ride quality (rattle rattle rattle, bang, thump, squeal) and the seemingly endless stops before Acton Town. Change onto the District Line at Barons Court, thence to Embankment and the joy of lugging three suitcases up Villiers Street and the bloody steps up to Charing Cross station to get the 'main line service' back to the Kent Coast.
Really feel the Acton Town point.
There seems to be two types of Piccadilly line user - those that live at or inside Acton Town and think it's a super-fast shuttle into London, and people who live outside it and think it's a cold, tedious stop-and-start slog of a train.
Sounds like a bit of an adventure
I hope this vivid retelling proves cathartic, thank you.
Blimey - happy memories then. Lol.
I remember as a young lad, having a day trip out to Heathrow in 1978 - during the school summer holidays. Heathrow Station and the Piccadilly Line trains seemed like something from a futuristic, space-age world; compared to my local Shadwell Station (with water running down the walls); and the older 1930's(?) trains that served the decrepit East London Line. The 1973 Stock is such a superb, creative design. Many thanks for this video Jago.
Yep,the ELL was operated by 1938 Tube stock inthe 1970s
Thankfully the east London line has the quite new 378s that are 7 decades newer but sadly we cant say the same about the 1973 stock...
If the proposed replacement stock doesn't consume significantly less energy, and the current trains can be updated just a tiny bit, I think replacement is a waste of money, resources etc. And aesthetically, they are definitely pleasing.
I imagine that would not have been a priority - in fact I expect that new trains use exactly the same amount of power but now include air-conditioning and regenerative braking (which should produce less heat). Trains that run all day for 40-50 years will be expensive to maintain though. Although they will probably be refurbished and sent somewhere else in the world!
@@hairyairey underground stock is very particular, it often can't even be used on other lines of London Underground, I'm not sure there's much demand for such trains in the world, as most countries where second-hand trains and buses are common, underground railways are rather rare, and often come with a grant from China, which includes Chinese rolling stock, of course.
But I agree, replacement shouldn't be a priority, especially for a cash-strapped TfL.
@@barvdw You'll be surprised, recycled tube trains are already running on the Isle of Wight and the Marston Vale line. The latter has diesel engines now!
@@hairyairey the isle of Wight is quite known, but that's what, 4 trains? I was thinking of something more substantial. Marston Vale I didn't know (anymore), thanks.
@@barvdw Marston Vale isn't likely to be more than 4 trains either. Runs between Bedford and Bletchley however if the East-West link from Cambridge-Oxford is built (and would be successful on freight traffic alone) that line may be electrified and newer rolling stock introduced.
A few fun facts Mr J..... Before the 73 stock arrived the Piccadilly Line was worked by all the 1956 & 1959 stock plus 15 trains of 1938 stock! These were the first to be replaced by 1973 stock and the idea was to have all 73s in service by the time the Heathrow Extension opened...... It wasn't to be and so around half a dozen 1959's worked to Heathrow and had LT Aldenham Bus Overhaul Works paper & linen blinds fitted (rather than the more expensive Kelbus plastic blinds usually used on the Underground at this time) as Heathrow (complete with aeroplane in blue square moteif at one side) wasn't on the original blinds...... Another fact, both the Piccadilly Line western branches were District Line (Railway originally) branches, and until the late 1960s the District still ran through to Hounslow West in the peaks.......
I just wonder how practical it would be to bore out or add new tunnels to Heathrow, suitable for the S stock, with the S stock sharing that branch, as it shares the track from Rayners Lane to Uxbridge.
I remember those old trains pre '73 stock. My mind is telling me that they were crimson (or even sometimes green?). . They were SO basic & used to throw you around. I knew no alternative -- until I changed at Finsbury Park & got a Victoria Line train - they seemed supersonic in comparison !
@@Muswell they would have been Crimson. LT did not have any green tube stock. They had brown teak coloured stock on the Met to Aylesbury.
@@trevorelliston1 Thank you. Yes - crimson was my first recollection. I can picture them.
@@trevorelliston1 Very expensive I fear. This was perhaps a missed opportunity when the line was originally built; much easier to build large tunnels initially than to enlarge them later. But it was the 1970s and finance was short.
The 1973’s with a upgrade could continue to run until 2035-40 at least! They’re far more sturdy than the 1972’s, which are in dire need of a replacement! Considering TfL’s long term ambitions to extend the Bakerloo they should get the 2024’s first, then the Piccadilly then the Central/Waterloo & City, on another note, it was rather short sighted to withdraw the District line from Hounslow in many ways, the District should have been extended to Heathrow since they have bigger trains, but the Piccadilly is the “express” tube so it gives tourists the illusion of being on a “fast” train to London’s West End on the cheap
J. Graeme Bruce (a former COO of LU) once said that his biggest regret was not diverting the District Line to Hounslow West...and making the Hounslow West to Heathrow Link big enough for Subsurface Stock.
Regardless at least the Elizabeth Line service to Heathrow will repair that mistake. Although I do wish that a Future Government would upgrade the GWML between Paddington & Reading to 6-Track (thus meaning that a 12-15tph service would be possible from the EL Core to Heathrow).
They get wheel flats most autumns and then are partially suspended
While I’ll be sad to see them go, I’d say the 1972 Stock really ought to go *first*. They may have that nostalgic feeling - but a big part of that is that they’re old and in dire need of replacement by the 2024 Stock.
The 1973s, refurbished a mere quarter-century ago, can ably hang on a little longer I’m sure. As noted, they do what they’re meant to do perfectly well; due for replacement, sure, but not falling apart.
Great video as always!
I find the 1973 stock look newer but feel older or more worn out than the 1972 tube stock.
I believe the 73 stock are in a worse state of repair
Okay so here is my two cents in this argument, I agree about your comments. I use the Piccadilly line all the time (most weekends) okay so the lights flick on and off occasionally that's about it. The Bakerloo line, I almost never use, however I did last weekend. This one time I used it, the door closing sound didn't work on pretty much the whole carriage and less than half the lights worked the whole time I was on the train. To give you an idea I got on at Edgware road and off at Piccadilly Circus and boy was I glad to.
I was wondering why the Piccadilly Line trains were next in line for an upgrade instead of the older Bakerloo Line ones when Jago annoyingly - oh, all right, helpfully, promptly proceeded to explain. Wheelchair access at Heathrow notwithstanding, I still think it would be better for the Bakerloo Line trains to be upgraded first, even if I do quite enjoy their slightly dishevelled upholstery. The presence of the full Elizabeth Line should hopefully make wheelchair access to and from Heathrow less of an issue.
Upgrading Bakerloo doesn’t seem necessary; it’s passenger numbers are far less than the Piccadilly and only 6 of its 25 stations are solely run by it (meaning you could get other services to a large majority of the stations). It’s essentially a shuttle from Queens Park to Elephant and Castle, since you can get the Overground to Harrow and W. It would be a wasted investment to upgrade the Bakerloo before the Piccadilly.
@@zeligdaniels Being controversial (and boring!) here the best upgrade to the Bakerloo line would be to increase the diameter of its tunnels so that it no longer has to run the tiniest trains. That's only 14 miles of tunnels to expand (nearly half the overall line length). I note that the proposed extension is being built with 6 metre wide tunnels (5 metres usable instead of less than 4).
Problem is that overhaul of the line would increase the lines capacity by 66% if the stock, signals and stations were updated. That can't be ignored
I do~n't think jago said anything about overhauling the line just the 73 stock. Now if you're not referring to that nevermind what I said and pretend I didn't reply. Then again I might have missed the part of the video you're talking about.
There was a plan to resignal the line along with the new air conditioned walk through trains, but this was put on hold. This was confirmed in the TfL financial settlement with the government on 30 August 2022. Nevertheless, TfL is still meant to investigate the possibility of driverless trains!
@@michaeltajfelThe walk through trains are being built and tested right now.
I love the use of peccadilloes upon the Piccadilly - the work of a genius, thank you. Keep the stock most certainly.
Frankly, I thoroughly enjoyed exploring London via Tube trains when I passed through in 1970 & 73. Being from Chicago, I was used to the "L" (elevated) lines with cars the size of VW buses. Your system worked and generally ran on time; ours's not so much.
Small observation...
They are 'cars' not 'carriages'...
Something to do with Westinghouse I think...
Or Yerkes...
Very interesting, I'm not particularly clued up on tube stock but have ridden my fair share of 1973 stock on my way to and from Hatton Cross for a bit of aircraft spotting when I've been in the Big Smoke. I like them, though would welcome anything with air conditioning...
If it was up to me, this would be my plan
1) Order 2024 stock trains for the Bakerloo line, so the 1972 stock can be scrapped
2) Order a second mid-life refurbishment for the 1973 stock to last for about 20 more years
3) Order a second batch of 2024 stock trains for the Central line so their 1992 stock can be scrapped
3) Order a third batch of 2024 stock trains for the Waterloo & City line so their 1992 stock can also be scrapped
4) Order a fourth and final batch of 2024 stock trains for the Piccadilly line to allow the 1973 stock trains to be scrapped after 50-70 years (in that alternative timeline)
1:28 An airport since 1976?? Have I spotted a rare Jago error? 😬
I think you may well have spotted Jago's deliberate mistake in this video.....
@@18robsmith So is there a deliberate mistake in every video 🤔. Damnit I'll have to watch them all again....
A mispronunciation of 1946 ;)
Was on a 73 stock earlier today. Fantastic trains that can still do the job they were designed for. Hopefully they will be kept longer. Why spend money on new trains if the current can still do the job they were designed to do.
Piccadilly Line 1973 Tube Stock
I Loved the 1973 stock when I was filming in London! :)
keep them, keep the 72, bring back the vic 67, heck let's have the 38 stock back as well - that's the real classic!
I have drove these trains for the past 25 years along with 72's 59's & 62's and along with driving days on A,C.D and S stock.I do love the73's but alas we are looking now at the 24 stock (The compuer said no)! Only time will tell. I will miss them.....
Very informative and lovely train and plane shot at ~ 07:49 by accident or design; anyhow, very appropriate, thanks!
To me it seems TfL need to reassess the length of its cars. Merseyrail did this making them shorter. It may mean trains being interchangeable between the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines.
That is the plan with the new trains and a common design for many lines.
\o/ been wanting videos on the history of the various types of tube stock.
I may be wierd.
Even if so, you're in good company here.
Exactly!
and these should be videos for retired tube stocks like Metropolitan A Stock or Circle C69 Stock
Should it stay or should it go now? If it stays there may be trouble, but if it goes there may be double. By that I mean, the added cost of building wholly new trains and scrapping existing stock would outstrip the cost of retrofitting a train that has a proven track record on the line it serves.
I'm not sure that last sentence scans with the melody....but it might be an accurate assessment.
Keeping them as spares as first can work.
As for scrapping... well feel like just better to sell them off for them to find other uses like the pacers have.
Last time I flew to London (from Canada) I tapped the Oyster Card TfL had helpfully sent me a couple of weeks earlier and trundled in to town. My hotel was in Earl's Court, just around the corner from the station. You'd almost think I planned it that way...
As a foreigner with an outrageous accent my view is "if it ain't broke don't fix it". Londoners may feel differently.
I would say that replacing the 1972 stock is more urgent.
I have very fond memories of the Piccadilly Line (and subsequently 1973 stock) from when I lived in (North) London.
Gonna say that I’d like them to stay, because as you say, they have aged very well and can keep pace, but of course they want to be seen as “investing in the railway” so that’ll never happen!
@1:30, back then the airport was little more than a field with a big shed serving as the terminal. For years, "London" airpot was the only one. Now all of the airports that ring the capital are prefixed London.
0:20 Broken headlight! Driver didn't do his walkaround checks?
While extra space was kept in mind in the design of 1973 stocks, I've always wondered if London Transport back then have ever considered bringing sub-surface trains (say the District Line) to Heathrow for even more space on the trains instead?
The Heathrow tunnels were built around "tube" trains, so sub-surface trains won't fit!
The former 1962 Craven's stock were a rare and beautiful thing .
A video of former Wembley stadium railways,empire exhibition and the Never stop railway would be delightful.
I wholeheartedly agree with your observations about this stock; it has survived the test of time and could last until 2030 with a bit of TLC. I remember riding these when they were brand new when I took full advantage of the GLC (as was) Fares Fare scheme, riding them from my (then) base North Ealing to Cockfosters & back. They sounded different too compared to the 1959/62 stock as they passed over the non-welded track sections: suddenly you had a tidy ‘1,2-3,4’ clackedy-clack instead of a ‘1,2 . . 3,4,5’ of the older trains. . . but no-one else ever noticed. 😉
I shall lament the passing of the 1973 stock. Many times have I used it on the Piccadilly line for airport access and other travel related business. It still seems very much up to it's design brief and still a capable set of drive units and carriages. I really do think that the poor old Bakerloo line stock rattling and clattering its way into the 21st century should definitely be replaced before anything else.
The Piccadilly line can wait for a bit....
Hey Jango... How about look at the various train termination sidings of the underground. As this is something we don't usually see that interesting and would be great.. the 1973 stock ... still fab!
This one takes one back, having to get off at the end of the underground and get on a bus to get to Heathrow. Only did it once, after that I drove down to pick-up my sister and bring her back for her flight to Gibraltar. Next time I used the underground the train took you all the way into the airport with a choice of terminals to get off on. Still took forever thought when you started out from Kings Cross.
When I caught a flight from Heathrow in 1975, you had to get the A1 bus from Hounslow to the airport. It was difficult to find my way around all the building work going on.
Designed by Mischa Black's Design Research Unit (DRU) who also did the Victoria Line stock.
Please bring back the sound of the tube leaving or entering a station for your finally. Please
I remember the curious excitement of walking up to Hounslow West, walking down that horrible asbestos shed they put up to connect to the new platforms, and the market that was taking place in the car park. There is a constant hum of electricity, burnt dust, ozone and then the raw thunder as one of these things rolled in. I live a long way away now and it will be sad when these things are gone.
Jago you got a mention autoshenanigans recently. Your fame grows and grows. Nice video on the dilly line, must go to Heathrow sometime
Britannic, Europa and Oceanic are so much nicer than Terminals 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
I know deep level trains are tiny compared to those on the sub-surface lines, but is there anyway these 73’s could be upcycled and redeployed like the old D-stock units became the class 230
Given how poorly the 230s are performing, when they're actually performing at all, I doubt that would be a good idea.
I don't think TfW's managed to get even one of theirs into service yet.
I remember what i think were the 73 stock being stored at Bicester Army depot, for many years in the mid 70s ,at the time my uncle was a driver on the depot railway and i was told they were beimg stored because they were out of gauge for some of the tunnels.
The 1973 stock interior wasn't originally built for airline passengers, no extra luggage space or racks were provided when compared to the previous designs, the 1967/1972 stock. It was only in the midlife refurbishment that these trains were bought up to scratch.
They did have luggage provision before refurbishment, although it wasn't much. There were quite large standback areas next to the doors compared to other stocks.
I'm always for longer use of old stock. This is one of the best things about railway transport, the trains can be used for many decades.
If it is doing the job it needs to do, it should be kept. Not being funny, but the replacement of aged BR trains hasn't exactly seen things get better - and perhaps there are other areas where money could be better spent?
The Class 20's and 37's are still kicking since the 60's.
And it's only now theres plans to pull them out of service and auction them off.
Of course the Piccadilly line is the one with the peccadilloes, including piccalilli being the particular pickle you find yourself in when it packs up
73~75 stock is amazing. Along with 72 stock. Make it for for purpose. In 2022-23 it will live for ever.
Tube trains are supposed to be red, like1938 stock, and proper London buses! It all started to go down-hill in the 1960s. As for blue stripes, well... 🤣🤣
When I was a lad it wasn't called Heathrow just: London Airport and me and my mates used to spend a day there at the open balcony - now long gone for security reasons - watching the planes land and take off. It was a great day out. Nowadays it's just an irksome chore one has to go through to get to the country you want to go to.
But you didnt show how the interior is adapted for airport service, like a comparison maybe?
They are still running well on the Piccadilly line. Extensively refurbished with the internal seating changed to longitudinal seating only and extra space by the doors for luggage
Fond memories of going out from North London to Heathrow Central in the late 1970s after school. Was a great adventure to go and see planes as up to them had never been on one and never thought I would. Ended up working in airfreight industry and been om best part of a thousand flights lot
Such nostalgia , my life revolved around these , growing up. Going to school , out with friends, getting the last one back to Oakwood on a Friday night. Going into uni every day, then going into work. Going on holiday from Heathrow .
Great video Jago. As someone who grew up close to a Piccadilly line station I’ve got a lot of affection for these trains
Living in Feltham in the 1980's, Hatton Cross was my local underground station. The Piccadilly line was always a bit of a drag in my opinion.
I would say, move them to another another line on the tube, get the 2024 stock to come in and move the 1973 stock to the Bakerloo line if it can. I say they do not to be scrapped. they could still use them on the piccadly line when the 2024 stock come in but for staff and maybe if we need any extra trains or if one breaks down?
I grew up in Hounslow West in the 70s and the extension building sites were a bit of a playground for us...none of that health and safety nonsense back then. It was a very exciting time (in 1975) seeing first the new trains, then the new station and then a few days later the opening to Hatton Cross.
1976? Lol, I was wondering about that. Glad you caught it in your comment above. Perhaps that is when Baby Jago came along?
I know these trains well, I grew up near to both Northfields and Boston Manor stations so this was first line I ever went on. I miss the front facing seats, I don't miss the wood floor and other design choices that seemed old even in the early 80s.
'Let's come up with a new modern, dynamic & descriptive name for the exciting new trains due out soon.' 🤔🤔🤔 '2023 Stock?' Nailed it. 👏👏👏
I reckon there's a good chance that the '73s might get replaced at just the right time. While for the general user there's nothing really wrong with them but there is a number of aspects that we need on the tube that isn't there presently. Things like climate control and easy wheelchair access. Factors that have become far more important then what they would have been say during the renovations. I think the points about the dot matrix screens and rubber floors point to that as well. While there's nothing overly wrong with no information screens and wooden floors. Those older standards just don't meet modern needs.
In terms of operation the '73s are brilliant presently. I'd wager covid has done a bit to help prolong their lives a bit further. However, would we be able to say the same thing when their set to be replaced in five years? How about in fifteen years time? While it will be said to see them go, I reckon the changes will come at the right time. While we will all have that nostalga for the older stock, as we've seen with the S stock, I doubt anyone would seriously want to go back beyond raw nostalga. Though it would be good if somewhere they are able to still get some use and preservation. The '73 stock have been excellent servants to the needs of passengers and so should be respected beyond their tube life as much as possible.
Just so folk know . . . .
For a few years now, there is NO Terminal 1 at Heathrow. The expansion of T2 took some of it over. It seems very strange to me that they didn't then just renumber the terminals 1, 2, 3 & 4. . But no, 2 - 5 it is. Maybe they're keeping their options open for expansion & create a new Terminal 1 ?
Having driven them in a past career,inthink they could stay a few more years whilst the Bakerloo trains are replaced.
Good trains to drive in hood weather but tricky in bad.
I think they should go because the holiday demand has gone up so has airport travel so they need new trains to fit that demand but the trains on the Piccadilly line now should go onto the bakerloo line and replace them so its I win win the pic get new trains and so does the bakerloo
B52 Stratofortress laughs at concept of a 1973 train being old
Anything that champions the 1970’s should definitely stay. 👏👏👍😀
Back in the 50's and 60's the likes of BEA and BOAC had central London termini where you could check in, deposit your luggage and be transported to Heathrow by special busses.
Some of those buses were special variants of the iconic Routemasters
The Piccadilly line station at Terminal Four was opened by TRH The Prince & Princess of Wales on 1st April 1986.
I love the Piccadilly Line stock! (I grew up on the Isle of Wight so the 1938 stock is what I knew as a train!). I think it’s great that they might keep the 1973 stock going for almost a decade more!
Skip the Charles Tyson Yerkes game, my new drinking one, is everytime I hear "stock". I'm on my 37th pint.
1973 stock has to go to be replaced by something much better. We need transport fit for the next 50 years not trains designed in the early 1970’s and approaching half a century in service. Better accessibility. More and bigger seats. Air conditioning. Better safety and crash protection. None of this standing up malarky that shouldn’t be encouraged on safety grounds. Imagine what the elf and safety crowd and even the police had to say if they caught a pickup truck travelling at 40mph with six people standing up in its loadbed. Same principle should apply to buses and trains.
No standing on the Underground ... that would be a novel idea ... can't see anyone standing for it though :) When we see how people on platforms will fight their way on to even the tiniest gap in a crowded carriage rather than wait for the next train (which may be equally full). And of course they are already maximum length and maximum frequency so capacity is at its limit.
I'm not a London native but back in the 70s I could quote all the Piccadilly Line stations from Holborn to Heathrow Central without looking at the map. This was down to me being a planespotter - I'd get a Deltic hauled train from Wakefield Westgate to Kings Cross, spend a few days in a cheap hotel and utilise the 73 stock to deliver me to Heathrow Central where the Roof Gardens hosted me for an entire day of Tridents, VC10s, 707s, 747s and best of all, the occasional Concorde. Bloody hell, just writing that last sentence has made me all nostalgic and feel pity for those friends of mine who were more interested in sex and drugs and rock and roll.
How about a video talking about the old West London Terminal and the buses that were used to get passengers to Heathrow pre-Tube?
The 73s were the poster boys of the Underground for many many years even after newer trains had entered service.
Give them pacers...let them feel like oop northerners for a few months....
Given the ongoing budgeting issues that TFL must endure, it seems sensible to hang onto this stock and refurbish as required. Bakerloo stock: the fine line between quaint and unwieldy seems to have been crossed.
1973 stock is a bit rattling nowadays but I still rate it above the bakerloo line stock.
It can be said that 50 years and still going strong for the Piccadilly line stock whereas it can only be said 50 years and still going for the Bakerloo line stock.
Is it the curve radius that prevents transferring these vehicles to the Bakerloo? Or something else?
Probably is just the curvature in the tunnels - Jago didn't mention it, but wasn't introduction into service of the 73 stock delayed because of them fouling the tunnels somewhere on the route?
Keep 'em going 72's too! I live on the Isle of Wight these days and look how long the 38's lasted! Ok they had to go in the end but I reckon these still have plenty of life in them! I was brought up in South Harrow so travelled on these a lot and earlier in the summer came up and travelled from Ruislip to Hounslow East via Acton Town and back again. Brought back memories. Ps I can recommend the samosas from the kiosk at Acton Town😀
But oddly enough the new tube stock doesn’t appear to have as much open storage in the vestibules for all that Heathrow luggage as the 1973 stock.
Modern buses also seem to have very small amounts of luggage space compared to what I remember from when I was young (admittedly I am thinking back to buses in Essex rather than London). Most seem to have a row of front seats and a small luggage space, often with a box of metro papers in where the larger luggage space used to be on Essex buses.
You would think they would want to encourage us to use bus and tube to get to airport and mainline station instead of using taxis / driving but making it harder to travel with luggage doesn't help. Add that to stations without step free access to get heavy bags up to platform and the car really starts to appeal.
But now you have the Heathrow Express as well as the Elizabeth Line to take you between Heathrow Airport and London city centre. So I think that it's not necessary to have as much space on the Piccadilly Line any more.
@@mattbosley3531 But the Piccadilly is still very heavily used by airport passengers as it provides a direct no-changes route to various central and outer London locations plus Kings Cross St Pancras. Plus it's much cheaper than the Heathrow Express. So lack of luggage space could be a significant problem in the future.
I like the Bakerloo more than these 1973s but times do move on and change, in in another 50years people will be laughing how the "new tube for London" are so old and need replacing.... I'll be 88 maybe by then so not be bothered lol
I do recall going to Heathrow airport in 1969 and having to get a bus there from Hounslow.
I can remember travelling on the 1959 stock, when it was nearly new in the early 60s and on the old '38 stock.
Given TFLs current finances, replacement of the 1973 stock, may well be a case pitting the extra maintenance costs of continued use against the cost of capital required to replace them . . .with interest rates rising . . . May be the '73's will be given a stay of execution.
Against this is the fact that maintenance costs must be higher for the 73's.I take it that the '73 stock didn't have brushless motors, so maintenance on these would be more costly, along with the higher incidence of fatigue in the older parts and chassis.
Hey, but TFL's loss is the Isle of Wight's or some other regional railway's gain.
I always liked the Piccadilly line, and these trains must be a big part of the reason. Plus, Metro Camel, emblazoned as it was on the step of every doorway, is the sort of name which sticks in a young novophile's mind. :p
For some reason, you could never tell that these things were one of the oldest passenger trains in the UK. Pity that they won't be around for much longer
Ah yes, Chapter 21 of "The London Underground Tube Stock", J. Graeme Bruce, 1988, which I like to read of an evening!
Have you got his book on the 1938 stock? And the two editions of “From Steam to Silver”? All right. I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to the underground..
Winter reliability on the Piccadilly has been poor for some years through wheel flats and adhesion issues
the 1973 stock is a legend that defies time
Nice to see you managed to get Concord G-BOAB there in the background.......
I think we have just discovered where Jago’s boundary between modern and retro lies 😁 1973!