Lucifer (Low Level, Hard, Extra Enemy Turn, Chronicle Mode) - SMT Nocturne HD
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- Опубликовано: 11 фев 2023
- Death's vastness holds no peace. I come at the end of the long road. Neither human, nor devil... all bends to my will.
Rules:
- EXP gain must be minimised, limited to forced encounters where possible
- Using Bright Might or Dark Might for guaranteed crits is forbidden
- [BROKEN] Use of demons from the Maniax/Chronicle release is forbidden (This includes Fiends, Beelzebub, Black Frost, Futomimi, Metatron, Sakahagi and Dante/Raidou)
- The goal is to collect all Magatama and achieve the True Demon Ending
If you have been to the very bottom of the Labyrinth of Amala, Lucifer will fight you as the final boss after Kagutsuchi. He is easily the single hardest fight in the game and its not at all close. For starters he has a colossal 65535 HP (and MP but I'll address that in a moment) and he resists all damage, including almighty, by 75%. This means that Pierce is the only way to do meaningful damage to him. Besides the Demi-Fiend learning Pierce from Marogareh the only way to get it is to buy the Girimekhala from the demon broker in the 5th kalpa. Said broker is behind a door that requires Metatron to open which carries an implicit level requirement of 95. Needless to say that is simply not viable on a low level run so Demi-Fiend is going to be doing the vast majority of the damage here.
Lucifer starts the fight only using his normal attack, Mabufudyne, Megidola and Evil Gleam. Evil Gleam is an attack that targets the whole party and has a high chance to cause charm. His normal attack is the most threatening thing at this point. It does absurd damage, has an extremely high crit chance and cannot miss. Even at +4/-4 no member of my party could survive 6 crits if he were feeling exceptionally cruel. After depleting 25% of his HP he will stop using Mabufudyne and instead add Glacial Blast, Prominence, Dekunda, Dekaja and High King to his repertoire. High King is the strongest almighty attack in the game besides Kagutsuchi's Infinite Light and it has a decent chance to cause bind. There are a great many potentially lethal combinations at this point and this isn't even as bad as it gets.
Once 50% of his HP has been depleted he will upgrade Megidola to Megidolaon and start using Root of Evil. Root of Evil has 2 effects, the first is random and the second is guaranteed. The first effect has a 40% chance to reduce any target's HP by 50%, a 20% chance to reduce it by 75%, a 10% chance to reduce it by 90% and a 10% chance each to cause mute, poison or stun. The second effect, which was added in the Chronicle version of the game and wasn't present in the western PS2 release, is that it removes buffs. Ultimately what this means is that even if he is fully debuffed he has a 30% chance of putting any member of my team into kill range of a non-critical normal attack. The icing on the cake is that on Chronicle mode he will use Diarahan the first time he has lost over 40000 HP, reverting him to his first phase and prolonging the fight considerably. Mercifully he will never use High King after Root of Evil in the same turn but the odds of at least one party member dying are still considerable. At most he will cast Root of Evil every other turn which makes survival extremely difficult.
To prepare for this I had to assemble a crack squad of demons with useful immunities and skills. I re-did the 3 Devas to have some demons evolve and others learn skills for this. I also needed to boost my demon's VIT via Mitama Fusion so that they could survive at least a double High King. I haven't used this at all until now but I didn't forbid it in my rules because I had this fight in mind. All of my demons have Endure and part of my strategy was to swap them out when it procced so that I wouldn't have to waste any turns reviving, it is very easy for the loss of turn economy from one death to spiral into eventual doom. Daisoujou is being used because he is the only demon who absorbs mind damage and because I needed a backup counterpart for Lakshmi.
Even with all of this I found that the odds would catch up with me on many, many attempts and so I decided I would have to make a concession in order for this to be reasonably possible. In order to not have to reduce the difficulty to normal I decided I would have to drain Lucifer's MP so that he couldn't remove debuffs. None of his other non-unique attacks are particularly threatening and his unique ones don't cost MP so this doesn't neuter him as much as it might seem like. Due to his innate 75% resistance this should take close to 3 hours but I asked @oldmatthiewpurple to reduce his max MP to 5000 so that attempts didn't consume all of my free time. Ultimately the outcome is the same so I thought this was reasonable. This is a somewhat double-edged sword though because after I did this, he started using High King multiple times in a turn which was somewhat terrifying.
Anyway I'm glad to have finally prevailed, sorry to keep you all waiting and thanks for the comments of encouragement. 
Игры
![Fast Kill Bullying Demi-fiend [HARD] - Shin Megami Tensei 5](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/l2paiNWaCiQ/mqdefault.jpg)
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It has been an honor to have been able to contribute to this incredible journey
Yes, it's been quite the ride. Thanks a lot my dude.
it's so funny seeing Lucifer kept attacking Daisoujou like "this fuckin skeleton just drain all my mp up!!!!" man, Daisoujou really is the best boi
I love how Lucifer raises an eyebrow every time you attack, as if to say “Huh, that actually hurt? Not bad.”
👑 sorry you dropped this
Its the first time I noticed Lucifers exprecion when he gets hit. When you attack his balls with Iron claw, he just endure it, but when you use meditation he looks at you like, seriosly man, that was all you have got?
Seeing the description reminds me of the one guy that did lucifer with normal attacks without pierce for 6 hours. I don’t even wanna think about 5 press turn dds Demi fiend or 4 press turn Elizabeth. Congratulations man.
send me the link of the guy who beat lucifer with normal attacks without pierce
@@ryanp7546 doubt I can send links here but the guy was called synanova you’ll see it there.
@@brenden7245 thanks
That would be me, lol. But it was more so that I did less than 400 damage each turn, and thus the struggle of the 6-hour boss fight with Lucifer was born!
Seriously, amazing work, I never thought this was possible, this must've taken you many times, I have trouble just beating him on hard. Edit: Wait though, many guides out there said he has like 65k MP, were they wrong or did they reduce the amount of MP Lucifer has? Edit2: My bad you edited out the hours of MP drain haha. Good strategy
i don't think this could have ended any better than with a retaliate
This was amazing to watch! Love to see Nocturne getting pushed to its limits
That ending was like Demi-Fiend doing a nasty Sucker Punch and Lucifer got caught so off guard he died.
It is nice to see how your experiment turned out. Congratulations, you have turned the scientific method up to 11 in this experiment and we have now all seen a fascinating display of the deepest depths of Nocturne's battle mechanics in action as well as the pleasure of having seen an exciting and entertaining challenge be overcome. If I were part of some reputable organization rather than some random yahoo on the internet, I would give you an award. That was quite the creative strategy. 👍
Keep in mind that in PS2 Chronicles he has 100k HP which is 65535 (the maximum value of an unsigned 16-bit integer, aka the biggest health pool you could ever achieve in this game due to the game's coding) + Diarahan once you dealt 40k damage to him. This was removed in the next versions coming after such as Nocturne, Lucifer's Call, Remastered.
I've already beaten the game few times already and knows how much of a hell sign Lucifer is. I tried Chronicles with english patch and it took me a solid nearly 40 minutes to beat him with low level challenge and skill fusion altering. The fight is basically how lucky you are and how unlucky you are - just that few mistakes will eventually cost the run.
Imagine if he still had this gimmick in the original Chronicles.
It's hell. This probably is the only quote unquote viable sane way to beat him under this restriction.
The Chronicle version was the last ps2 release and the changes to lucifer in that version were preserved in the HD remaster apart from Diarahan which he will not cast on Maniax mode. Root of Evil didn't remove buffs on the western Nocturne/Lucifer's Call version but it does in the Chronicle version and HD remaster regardless of which mode you're playing.
Technically I think it is possible to win without doing what I did but the luck requirement was too much for me to stomach.
@@ZephhyrAgain ok that's a bit confusing. I actually thought Chronicles released before it got localized in the West.
@@YurificationTrademark Chronicles was released along side the japanese version of Raidou VS King Abaddon
This reminded me of Dragon Quest II's final boss, Malroth, God of Destruction, who does something similar to Lucifer's Diaharan.
He has 255 HP (which I believe is also the maximum due to DQ2 being a NES game, but I might be wrong on this) and Fullheal, along with INFINITE MP.
This effectively means the battle is infinite until he chooses otherwise, and he has three moves, which means he has a 33% chance to cast it each turn because his AI picks at random.
Man old JRPGs are wack.
The game gives you 65535 exp for beating Lucifer too
As Deus said: Lucifer summoned darkness and broke your Nintendo DS.
Demi-Fiend just shouted in a Brooklyn accent "Get outta here!" at the end.
All this from 1 extra turn 😩
21:47 To the Nohobino.
First off, before I continue, congrats on pulling it through, even if you couldn't entirely pull it through and had to cut the time back with the MP draining. I do kinda wish you did drain it all instead, but I know I'm not doing that for my run for pretty similar reasons, so yeah, I get it. I do think your 3 hour guestimate might be a bit of a low ball, by the way, since you can't use Meditation for that due to it draining his HP and forcing him into phase 2 too early!
So I've been extensively studying the Maniax Lucifer so I can't comment too much on this, but I do know the HP gates for the phases I observed are a little different to what you wrote in the description (I believe it was 70% HP remaining instead of 75% then 45% HP remaining instead of 50%) but they're so similar that's not much of a big deal.
Though there is one thing I do want to add regarding Lucifer Chronicle: Diarahan. You said he does it once after 40k damage, and yeah, he does do it once after around 40k.
Thing is, well...that isn't the only time he can do it.
See, it's very possible to best Lucifer without seeing Diarahan at all. You'd do this by getting him to just before the HP gate where he uses it, then bursting him for around 8000 damage in one turn. This skips the scripted Diarahan and you can go straight into actually finishing him off. Some people will get this by pure dumb luck and wonder why everyone says Chronicles Lucifer has Diarahan when they never saw it.
The developers seemed to know this was possible, as well. So they made a little "fix" to try to ensure everyone sees a Diarahan from him per fight.
Said fix is in Lucifer's last 18k health, he can just use Diarahan, whenever he wants, as a normal move. And there is no limit on how many times he can do this other than your luck and his MP pool!
If you don't believe that someone would code a behaviour that ridiculous onto a boss, don't worry, I came prepared:
/i85LNDASezA Go to 3:15:00 ish and watch how that goes.
And there isn't any way I know to play around that - you can try to kill him faster so he doesn't get the chance to do it, but that opens you up to death by Root of Evil removing your Rakukajas and him beating you down with his almighty attacks, and even then, every turn he gets is still a chance that he can reset the fight - even if it's only three or four turns, that's a chance.
Well, other than, you know, draining his MP for over 3 hours.
That is absolutely disgusting, seeing that definitely makes me feel like I made the correct decision with what I did. Out of curiosity, how did you find out about this AI quirk? I'm trying to figure out how to view the game's AI scripts atm and I've not found much on the topic thus far.
That quirk in particular is something I've not directly observed myself since its only on chronicles and I'm going off what other people have worked out (as for the HP gates for his phases, I just tested those myself) but a lot of the info I got about how the game's AI ticks comes from following zombero's hardtype back during its development - he posted a lot about his process learning to develop the game on gamefaqs in these huge comment threads that hit the cap many times over and a lot of that was included there.
@@lefthandedscout9923 It's probably going to be a bit of a trawl to find his posts that have useful information then, especially since he was using the PS2 version and I'm using the HD version. Thanks for the tip though.
@@ZephhyrAgain that's exactly how I'd phrase it - *disgusting*. there's no way to play around it besides mana draining him or out-RNG'ing him right? I imagine that him spamming diarahan is a real risk in solo runs(or any kind of run where he gets a lot of turns in that phase, eg low level).
I really do wonder sometimes if the devs even as much as turned the game on to playtest features.
Wow I didn’t know his MP actually had a limit. How long did that take?
If doing it legitimately it you'd have to cast Mana Drain at least ~1300 times which would take close to 3 hours. As stated in the description, I had his MP reduced to 5000 and also I was using Daisoujou's Meditation which is twice as powerful as Mana Drain so it took about 10 minutes. I decided this was fair because it isn't at all difficult to be infinitely sustainable in his first phase and I didn't want every attempt I made to be insanely time consuming.
@@ZephhyrAgain Deus did it on Hard Mode, it took like 6-10 hours
Granted, this was with only Demi-Fiend, but still
@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 I know, he literally mentions me in the video. It took him that long because he did it with no demons and at level 255. Due to Nocturne's stupid magic formula his Mana Drain did noticeably less than mine on top of him only being able to use it up to once per turn.
@@ZephhyrAgain It wasn't the magic formula. It was because of Lucifer resisting Almighty, which extended to Mana Drain
Just beat him last night, my first time beating Nocturne on hard (without the extra turn and low level aha).
This is absurd, I barely beat him but I only had one demon with Rakukaja.
Not having double war cry + double rakukaja = suicide
I'd have cry if in the end turn Demifiend hadn't retaliate and Lucifer just attack again
That was incredible
So, what's next, Digital Devil Saga with extra turn? ( *laughs for final boss with 7 turns* )
I have no idea what's next tbh. As much as I love DDS making a similar mod would be difficult since its a PS2 game. I'm also not sure if it would even be possible to beat a good number of the bosses in that game if they had an extra turn. Cerberus in particular would cause major problems I think.
@@ZephhyrAgain Well, whatever game you take i wish you good luck and strong nerves
Demi-Fiend with an extra turn sounds like you condensed all the circles of Hell into one purgatory of pain
@@ZephhyrAgain Only really Cerberus might be a problem, maybe Huang Long or Beelzebub too. As for Metatron...he's a joke, just bring Null Phys + Null Element, put the game on auto with the characters passing their turn, and go make a sandwich
Any opinions on the Hardtype mod Zombero? did for this game? It makes Lucifer and other Fiends much more interesting fights
About Lucifer...once you realize he gets nosold by repels, you can basically have him hit himself until death
I think Zombero had some great ideas and Hardtype is overall pretty damn good. I think the health-inflation gets a bit much past a certain point though. Hardtype Lucifer is very susceptible to cheese though since reflected attacks bypass his 75% resistance.
@@ZephhyrAgain *cough* Sakahagi with 21600 HP
@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 yeah that's just too much considering how quickly it boils down to surviving his piercing Attack All twice per round.
Do you know about the bug that prevents Daisoujou from getting his buffs removed from Root of Evil?
I've never heard about this one. Only Daisoujou?
@@ZephhyrAgain Yes, because he is the only one who drains curse. When the game decides to do the poison or mute effects his buffs won't be removed. This isn't reliable (20% chance to happen, and only on one party member.)
@@pourygin9496 I guess that makes sense since Hell Biker's Hell Exhaust doesn't remove buffs if it hits a drain or reflect.
next smt run when, monke need challenge run content
I don't have another one planned atm. I'm actually looking at getting into modding Nocturne myself. I can point you to the low level run of Blue Dragon my sister did last year though: ruclips.net/p/PLAVND0e4pbqIUn7a2iEAr3P-HICN247KQ
How long did it actually take do get rid of all his MP??
Since I reduced his max MP to 5000 and used Daisoujou it took me just over 10 minutes. If I only used Mana Drain and didn't reduce his max MP I calculated it would have taken me just over 3 hours.
@@ZephhyrAgain looks like I’m gonna be playing for 3 hours 😤😤😤
Now hear me out, I say you go back and do it while he has 65k mp and show us that attempt too XD
no-one is going to want to watch me cast Mana Drain and Prayer exclusively for 3 hours.
i do...
Mods used (since I couldn't fit them in the description):
Extra Enemy Press Turn: gamebanana.com/mods/412716
Display Future Skills: gamebanana.com/mods/374425
OST Quality Music: gamebanana.com/wips/56149
If he has no MP, why not debilitate him?
that's literally the first thing I did
@@ZephhyrAgain Arh I see, its just it was still lighting up a an option when I watched it, and I usually see that as an indicator that it hasn't been maxed out yet. Kinda expected the debilitate to wear off, especially since damage went back to normal after his phase change
Man, Lucifer sure is bullshit if it forces you to actually cheat (reducing his mp from a whooping 65k) to achieve this challenge.
Honestly the fight wouldn't be half as bad if Root of Evil didn't have Dekaja as a secondary effect. Us Raidou player have it hard.
Strictly speaking I wasn't forced to cheat. I only considered it permissible for the sake of conserving time. Even if I hadn't reduced his maximum MP, I still would've edited out all of the time I spent draining it and so the video would be basically the same.
Not really considering the whole point of this challenge is purposefully giving bosses an unfair advantage over the player. Under normal circumstances it would be much more manageable.