You can also take the soulscream bridge, cast it through the Trog, and at end of movement, teleport it back into your deployment! Then you get +3CPP for Kroak and Slann dispelling cogs and the bridge on their turn!
Is that even possible turn 1? After Spatial Translocation the unit cannot move in the movement phase, so don't you need to wait until turn 2? It's a nice escape, though! Hit and run, almost sounds like a Sylvaneth trait 😂
Here's what I would add: Keep one unit of Guard to deep strike with the Trog as a screen/speedbump. And don't discount using the non-summoning "Cleanse the Realms" ability for 15 summoning points. Does 2-6 mw to everything within 12" of a Cosmic Node. If you've got a bunch of targets within 12" of the Trog on turn one, you should consider popping it at the end of your hero phase. If not, it's something to consider for later turns.
Its even better when you realize you can Summon the bridge endless and scoop the Oracle back home at the end of the move and not even have to leave him out in danger :)
I don't think you want to summon with this list. Just keep maxing mw using cleanse the realms for 15 cpp fire essentially another d6 mw to every unit within 12 of the oracle
I like the list, I am building basically the same thing with 1 change. Fangs of Sotek instead. Once you trog bomb the opponent you have 3 redeploy commands (2 for free) to run the trog back after enemy move phase
I may be wrong, but Raptadons are only battleline in a Fangs of Sotek army, so your list is not with 5 units of battleline, only 3. Not that it changes anything, but must take into account in case sb wanted to make modifications
I tried a very similar Alpha kroak list this afternoon. I meeeelted my opponent. I had no fun in spamming this easy game breaker combo. My opponent played way better than me. I forgot a lot of things. And yet, I crushed him as if I had 1k points more on the table. Game play is terrible, and playing against was worse. The poor friend had nothing to do, just watch his guys melt and can't reach a better unit than skinks every turn. Then playing this list against ossiarch with 2+ magic resist will also be very unfair in the other way. I think this book should get a bit reworked to give more space for other units to shine.
Thanks. Was looking at starting a Dino army because that new boxed set that have is gorgeous. also never done Jungle bases before, and you can get these rollers from GS world for creating Dino temple bits. I got a Necron one a few years ago for adding tombworld bits to my admech bases, and was very happy with it. If you ever want to add ruins or something to a base, check out the green stuff world rollers, they are great.
Rob from The Honest Wargamer just posted a video with tournament stats. At minute 8:27 he talks about a Fangs of Sotek list, which looks like a "new" variant of a trog bomb. Would love to see a video with your input on that list and how it works, what it means you need to do to make it work. It does seem very broken, though, so I expect it to be FAQ-ed in a manner. Probably not for a few months untill the next battlescroll update?
If you wanted to go all in, you can take the soulscream bridge to teleport the troglodon back to safety after the bomb happens The move on the soulscream bridge isn't instead of a normal move, its just an ability. Pretty filth, I'd expect an FAQ soon tbh.
Imo combos like this are cool to think about but its existence is pretty bad for the game and a pretty big feels bad for the opponent. Taking 18D3 mortal wounds on turn 1 that you effectively can't hide from and that can effectively target anything in your army is just not cool. Most armies will have no counter play against this. They will lose half their army turn 1, including probably all their heroes.
I'd be surprised if every AoS team doesn't run a Null Myriad OBR army as one of their lists. Super counters some very nasty specific lists (like this one). New Khorne might also be pretty spicy to go up against with Trog Bomb. I'm also curious as to how BoC plays into this, or even alpha striking KO. Definitely a super nasty list tho. Would not be excited to face it unless I was running a specific hard counter army.
@@angsty_creator No problem, so Null Myriad OBR is a subfaction in Ossiarch BoneReapers (OBR) that ignores spell effects on a 2+. AoS teams refers to a tournament format where you have a team of players and you go up against other teams. There is a pairing process for it so usually a team will have a couple of specific lists to deal with certain enemy lists. So a team might have one person take Null Myriad OBR to play against magic heavy enemy lists. Khorne have some pretty good abilities to ignore spells as well, and they get resource points from denying enemy spells which makes them stronger. Again a decent army to go against magic heavy ones. BoC is Beasts of Chaos. They can essentially null deploy which is when they start with no units on the board and then come in. This means you can't be targeted since you're not on the table, but can then potentially deploy and alpha strike before the enemy can retaliate. KO is Kharadron Overlords. Their new book makes them an amazingly strong army. Usually for shooting, but they can also pack a bunch of melee units in their boats and jump you pretty easily too. They tend to go 1 drop so they'll have the choice of going first or second round one. If they go first then it is possible they'll be able to shoot off a lot of the seraphon (or any) list before the enemy can react. Hope this helps some, and always ask questions. This is also my armchair analysis of the new book, and what I've said may end up not being true. So don't take it as gospel.
We tested a similar list at our store and my opponent was quick to point out that it has very heavily stacked hard counters which you just have to shake hands w on turn 1 if they do pop up. Looking at the strongest army OBR's null myriad, Khorne and Nagash can do super well against this list.
@@jayeshhoho That's great that you've tried the list. I haven't actually seen it on the table for real yet. I've got a lot of Seraphon that I never got around to fully painting last book. I'm trying to figure out how to build them with the new book. Part of me really wants to go for the magic heavy build, but I do see some nasty counters, and I'm also really wondering how much of a negative play experience it is going to end up being. Honestly I was really hoping that Terradons and some other fringe units like that were going to be a bit more interesting. I find the internal balance of the book pretty lacking, and wish there were more truly viable units. I don't even fully buy that they've just pumped the new stuff. Otherwise the Spawn of Chotec rules would be a lot better.
@@LeonBleak more than that. Don't forget the cleanse the realms, cosmic Crush, and comets call. Oh also you're pinned into the command zone and that trog you need to kill is screened, +3-4 to save, 5+ ward, -1 to hit and wound, and your hammer is rend -.
I'm working out this list on battle scribe. I keep getting an error with too many artifacts. Kroak is entourage commander (no other option), Slann is entourage sub commander. other leaders are good. I have both artifacts as you have listed above. Is the error with battle scribe or something else?
Another broken Seraphon aspect. The terrain piece is a cosmic node in Starborne. Even if it gets Smashed to Rubble it still counts as a cosmic node as that aspect is not on its warscroll but rather an allegiance ability. So in Starborne you can drop in on your opponents territory and summon and spell cast off it without using a Trog Bomb. In addition you can do the hero phase teleport to send someone to man the Realmshaper scenery rules and damage on a 2+ in the enemy's deployment
The Saurus Guard minis look a bit dated... what are the chances they'll update those? I know dinos just got those new sculpts, is that all they are getting? also was this list made before those new units went live/were legal? Just wondering how useful the stuff in that box is going to be.
I think the main limitation is drops. These castle shooting / alpha lists are 1 drop. So I’m not sure how the list can hold up to that. I’m gonna have to tweak it a bit and see if a battle reg variation is viable
In Draco you get to put half of your army in reserve if you want to. If you play this list, the bastiladon and perhaps skinks may be set up off the board, but is there anything else you may want to put on the board later? Or do you summon in the skinks at the Trog to make sure the slanns, or actually your magic castle, is screened properly to begin with, rather than summoning the skinks in at the slanns? Or would it be an idea, for more durability, to put a unit of guard with the Trog as well, since they can guard all heroes now? Or perhaps, depending on the map, use the Trog spell to slow down enemy units even more by disabling retreat or run, and halving their charge, thereby creating another option to keep the Trog save for a least another turn
And even when you have units in a battle reg bat, you can deploy some kn the board and some in reserve? I was under the impression the all needed to dbe deployed at the same time with the batallion, so either all on the board or all in reserve
yes this list is the only one in book that seems op, and totally unfun to play against. still not sure if will be enough to get 5/0s , since it need a double turn to really do damage, since after doing it troglodon will die for sure always, and then the list comes apart. and a average of 24-30 mortals is op, but not enough to win you the game unless you get double turn and complete delete the rival. like i said not fun, never funny to delete the rival when you get the double without anything he can do, and if not double we wouldnt have any damage remaining, only kroak going up to do the same as troglodon, but it is way too squishy to do that. hope it get faqued to not being able to tp troglodon in turn1.
@@cyanidedreamer how do u do that? would need to do it in your next turn no? so is better to repeat the delete bomb in case you got the double instead porting him back
@@michwis oh bridge . do u meant the endless spell?? dont have them so i always forget they exist. that would be broken as fuck. but why do u need troglo then? port kroak do bomb and port back with bridge
@@sururu6 becouse you can cast cosmic crush with it for another ani horde mortal spam :D. roll dice for each model in enemy unit each roll equal or exced their save is a mortal
This feels like a very all in strategy that can fall apart very easily once the Troglodon dies. Don’t love the Raptadons and think that 300 points could be used better. Another Bastilidon and 10 more skinks on the board to grab objectives?
So since the spacefolders stave and dracothians tail both trigger at the end of the movement phase, you can choose what order to resolve them? Also, cosmic crush may as well just be called Mortek Crush
I played the troglodon for fun many times, giving him Nimble (now gone) and Cloak of Feathers (can't be used on monsters now), with a +3" from fangs of sotek (now gone) and a run & charge/shoot from skink priest (now gone!) if I went second, I could run him 10"+6+3+4+1, 24", flying. If I got the double, he'd unleash kroaks wrath. It was amusing, but of course not really reliable. Now they just said "screw it, let's take away all the + movement stuff and just let him teleport".
People have been running more spell ignores lately due to Lumineth, but Teclis is just a hard counter to this list. Null Myriad OBR is ignoring spells on a 2+, Fyreslayer has an artifact for 4+ in 12", Sylvaneth a command trait for 4+ in 12", KB Murknob is 5+ in 12" but you can stack. There's lots of counters, should this list actually become common. You did neglect to mention the 15 CCP MW blast also though, everyone within 12" of the Trog would take d6 MW (1 fails), if you're really in a mood. Plus the realmshaper, of course.
The starseer can also potentially act as a secondary arcane vassal on a later turn if you lose the Troglodon. Not as effectively since it has a 12" range limit, but assuming the new starseer is still on a 50mm base, 12" + base size + 18" spell range could allow Kroak to hit things almost 32" away if you maximize the distance. That's still a very good range, especially on turn 2-3 if the enemy has moved up, and the Starseer can add its own spell to the mix and disable the ward of a tough target before bombing it. As long as the Astrolith Bearer is slightly forward of Kroak you could get both inside its range so the Starseer could also have an 18" range on that spell and could target the same thing. It's not nearly as clean as the Troglodon bomb and requires more careful positioning, so it's not a reliable turn 1 tactic, but it could be worth considering as a followup if one is needed. Or you could just use a regular starpriest and forgo the ward removal and an inch of range, but I think that's worth the extra 20 points in a list like this.
If you get all your spells off I think you’ll have 16 CPP, as you get one from the faction terrain which i don’t think you included in your factoring. Do you think any of the 16s are worth it to summon or is spamming skinks the best thing in your view?
What are your thoughts on skink weapon choices now that boltspitters only have one attack? I've seen people advocating for javelins on screening units, but that 8" range just feels so short...
Yeah, Javelins def have a better profile... but the range is so short... probably getting an extra turn of shooting from further out with the Boltspitters will equal the dmg from one round with the javelins. Either one... Skinks aren't doing much damage in this book. They are strictly screens and board control.
Re the interaction with the Stegadon Helmet and Mystic shield: I thought you could only modify a save once in either direction? (ie you could only give it a +1 and you opponent could only reduce it by -X [insert crazy tend here])
Only positive is limited negative isn’t and the cap is on the net result, so if you have +3 and a -1 that +2 caps at +1, but if you have +1 and -3 that goes to -2
I'd probably go Boltspitters and Clubs. Boltspitters have good range and you might sneak some shots thru. None of the melee weapons are great, but at least with Clubs you can throw some extra dice at the opponent if you accidentally get the skinks in melee.
Caleb, your lovely RSE gives you another +1 CPP, so you actually start at 5CPP! That 1 point may not matter much, but who knows!? We’re all still learning! Keep up there fantastic videos!
This was totally a list in my head! Best part, with the new box, I have all the models needed! Although still will want a new banner. Curious what you think are good summoning units. Skinks for cheap screens, terradons for a dive bomb charge? Spawn for the same (i see these having a fun melee charge, with stream of fire)? Maybe even chameleons for annoyance?
I would tend to default to Skinks. Very useful for creating screens and such in Starborne lists. BUT since you can only summon one unit per turn... I'd almost try and max out your CPP summoned unit if you can. Bring in a Spawn of Chotec (gets to shoot that phase) or Raptadons (+1 to charge). And Terrawings can be CLUTCH if you are fighting a low bravery army.
This sounds cancerous to play against. There’s literally zero counter play except for making sure you try to screen. I think I would feel bad playing this list vs anyone. I’ll be focusing on coalesced since I don’t want to see the player across from me become demoralized lol.
@@ClovisLaRoche This is a tourney list through and through. Nothing wrong with that. Just read the room and realize who you're playing and what the expectations for the game are. If you bring it to play with some friends for game night, expect to have a few less friends at the end of the evening. Unless of course you're all practicing for a tourney.
Nope. Not really. Only one spell can go thru the Trog now. :( BUT, you could always just teleport Kroak! A bit riskier, but still fun. Starborne can still push out a TON of MW even without the Trog Bomb.
Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Dracothion's Tail
Leaders
Lord Kroak (395)*
Slann Starmaster (275)*
- General
- Command Trait: Lord of Celestial Resonance
- Artefact: Spacefolder's Stave
- Spell: Comet's Call
- Aspect of the Champion: Fuelled by Ghurish Rage
Skink Oracle on Troglodon (270)**
- Spell: Cosmic Crush
- Artefact: Sacred Stegadon Helm
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)*
Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (130)**
5 x Saurus Guard (130)**
10 x Skinks (85)**
5 x Raptadon Chargers (150)**
5 x Raptadon Chargers (150)**
Behemoths
Bastiladon with Ark of Sotek (200)**
Endless Spells & Invocations
Chronomantic Cogs (70)
Core Battalions
*Command Entourage - Magnificent
**Battle Regiment
Total: 1995 / 2000
Drops: 4
it be nice to make it a one drop list
Looks like a fun list that could be competitive! No realm shaper engine?
You can also take the soulscream bridge, cast it through the Trog, and at end of movement, teleport it back into your deployment! Then you get +3CPP for Kroak and Slann dispelling cogs and the bridge on their turn!
Omg that sounds so disgusting but I love it
Hahaha very nice!!
Is that even possible turn 1? After Spatial Translocation the unit cannot move in the movement phase, so don't you need to wait until turn 2?
It's a nice escape, though! Hit and run, almost sounds like a Sylvaneth trait 😂
@@Healadin bridge is not a move 😊
@@Pf0llz0r You learn something new every day! 😁
Here's what I would add: Keep one unit of Guard to deep strike with the Trog as a screen/speedbump. And don't discount using the non-summoning "Cleanse the Realms" ability for 15 summoning points. Does 2-6 mw to everything within 12" of a Cosmic Node. If you've got a bunch of targets within 12" of the Trog on turn one, you should consider popping it at the end of your hero phase. If not, it's something to consider for later turns.
Oh man! That skipped my mind!! Great idea!!!
Its even better when you realize you can Summon the bridge endless and scoop the Oracle back home at the end of the move and not even have to leave him out in danger :)
yup this is a better option
Sorry how'd you get him to come back, new seraphon player here and I have no clue lol😅
This shit destroy the fun of the game.
The game end turn 2 with no movement and fun for the enemy
I tend to agree. Not the most fun or strategic for either side of the table.
I don't think you want to summon with this list. Just keep maxing mw using cleanse the realms for 15 cpp fire essentially another d6 mw to every unit within 12 of the oracle
Im glad he has a use finally, i actually think the model looks cooler than the carnosaur
I like the list, I am building basically the same thing with 1 change. Fangs of Sotek instead. Once you trog bomb the opponent you have 3 redeploy commands (2 for free) to run the trog back after enemy move phase
Tried out this list yesterday and it was a blast, very fun list 😂
I may be wrong, but Raptadons are only battleline in a Fangs of Sotek army, so your list is not with 5 units of battleline, only 3. Not that it changes anything, but must take into account in case sb wanted to make modifications
Ah true... that is from me modifying the Warscroll Builder template for the new units! oops! :)
Ok now you gotta take this to a tournament and let us know how it does. Sounds like kind of a NPE but hey all's fair in love and Warhammer!
Haha exactly!
I tried a very similar Alpha kroak list this afternoon. I meeeelted my opponent. I had no fun in spamming this easy game breaker combo. My opponent played way better than me. I forgot a lot of things. And yet, I crushed him as if I had 1k points more on the table.
Game play is terrible, and playing against was worse. The poor friend had nothing to do, just watch his guys melt and can't reach a better unit than skinks every turn.
Then playing this list against ossiarch with 2+ magic resist will also be very unfair in the other way. I think this book should get a bit reworked to give more space for other units to shine.
GW tends to have a problem correctly writing rules for Kroak! This was also an issue in the first book! Haha
Thanks. Was looking at starting a Dino army because that new boxed set that have is gorgeous. also never done Jungle bases before, and you can get these rollers from GS world for creating Dino temple bits. I got a Necron one a few years ago for adding tombworld bits to my admech bases, and was very happy with it.
If you ever want to add ruins or something to a base, check out the green stuff world rollers, they are great.
I’ve been waiting for theory crafting lists all week! Thanks for being first!
thxs for all the work, this has really helped my play and fun!
Rob from The Honest Wargamer just posted a video with tournament stats. At minute 8:27 he talks about a Fangs of Sotek list, which looks like a "new" variant of a trog bomb. Would love to see a video with your input on that list and how it works, what it means you need to do to make it work. It does seem very broken, though, so I expect it to be FAQ-ed in a manner. Probably not for a few months untill the next battlescroll update?
If you wanted to go all in, you can take the soulscream bridge to teleport the troglodon back to safety after the bomb happens
The move on the soulscream bridge isn't instead of a normal move, its just an ability. Pretty filth, I'd expect an FAQ soon tbh.
Love this list! 👍
You’re a monster Caleb. I love it 😈
Imo combos like this are cool to think about but its existence is pretty bad for the game and a pretty big feels bad for the opponent. Taking 18D3 mortal wounds on turn 1 that you effectively can't hide from and that can effectively target anything in your army is just not cool. Most armies will have no counter play against this. They will lose half their army turn 1, including probably all their heroes.
I'd be surprised if every AoS team doesn't run a Null Myriad OBR army as one of their lists. Super counters some very nasty specific lists (like this one). New Khorne might also be pretty spicy to go up against with Trog Bomb. I'm also curious as to how BoC plays into this, or even alpha striking KO. Definitely a super nasty list tho. Would not be excited to face it unless I was running a specific hard counter army.
I reallize how much of a noob i am when i cant understand anything in this types of comments
@@angsty_creator No problem, so Null Myriad OBR is a subfaction in Ossiarch BoneReapers (OBR) that ignores spell effects on a 2+. AoS teams refers to a tournament format where you have a team of players and you go up against other teams. There is a pairing process for it so usually a team will have a couple of specific lists to deal with certain enemy lists. So a team might have one person take Null Myriad OBR to play against magic heavy enemy lists.
Khorne have some pretty good abilities to ignore spells as well, and they get resource points from denying enemy spells which makes them stronger. Again a decent army to go against magic heavy ones.
BoC is Beasts of Chaos. They can essentially null deploy which is when they start with no units on the board and then come in. This means you can't be targeted since you're not on the table, but can then potentially deploy and alpha strike before the enemy can retaliate.
KO is Kharadron Overlords. Their new book makes them an amazingly strong army. Usually for shooting, but they can also pack a bunch of melee units in their boats and jump you pretty easily too. They tend to go 1 drop so they'll have the choice of going first or second round one. If they go first then it is possible they'll be able to shoot off a lot of the seraphon (or any) list before the enemy can react.
Hope this helps some, and always ask questions. This is also my armchair analysis of the new book, and what I've said may end up not being true. So don't take it as gospel.
We tested a similar list at our store and my opponent was quick to point out that it has very heavily stacked hard counters which you just have to shake hands w on turn 1 if they do pop up. Looking at the strongest army OBR's null myriad, Khorne and Nagash can do super well against this list.
@@jayeshhoho That's great that you've tried the list. I haven't actually seen it on the table for real yet. I've got a lot of Seraphon that I never got around to fully painting last book. I'm trying to figure out how to build them with the new book. Part of me really wants to go for the magic heavy build, but I do see some nasty counters, and I'm also really wondering how much of a negative play experience it is going to end up being.
Honestly I was really hoping that Terradons and some other fringe units like that were going to be a bit more interesting. I find the internal balance of the book pretty lacking, and wish there were more truly viable units. I don't even fully buy that they've just pumped the new stuff. Otherwise the Spawn of Chotec rules would be a lot better.
This sounds fun to play against
Sarcasm right? Lol. This sounds absolutely miserable.
@@---dn1fl Nah dude, I just love taking average 8 MW to 4 units in a single turn. hehehe
@@LeonBleak more than that. Don't forget the cleanse the realms, cosmic Crush, and comets call. Oh also you're pinned into the command zone and that trog you need to kill is screened, +3-4 to save, 5+ ward, -1 to hit and wound, and your hammer is rend -.
yea man super fun, almost as fun as having all my casters get unbinded because of stupid plus 3 plus 4 to unbinds for Seraphon...
Any thoughts on the Incarnate in a list like this Caleb? Think the opportunity cost is too big, leaving nothing on the board?
Yeah, Incarnate (or Gotrek?) might dissuade an alpha strike from a lower drop enemy which would ruin the list otherwise!
This is great thanks!!!
I'm working out this list on battle scribe. I keep getting an error with too many artifacts. Kroak is entourage commander (no other option), Slann is entourage sub commander. other leaders are good. I have both artifacts as you have listed above. Is the error with battle scribe or something else?
tried in the battle scribe, I can't add to the skink oracle anymore because error says too many selection of Artefacts max 1
I can't wait to try this list against the Skaven I'm really curious about how it may go
You are sure to win that game. Now, what’s the fun on playing like that. Really disappointed at GW with the work they always do with this army
This is the way!
Another broken Seraphon aspect. The terrain piece is a cosmic node in Starborne. Even if it gets Smashed to Rubble it still counts as a cosmic node as that aspect is not on its warscroll but rather an allegiance ability. So in Starborne you can drop in on your opponents territory and summon and spell cast off it without using a Trog Bomb. In addition you can do the hero phase teleport to send someone to man the Realmshaper scenery rules and damage on a 2+ in the enemy's deployment
The Saurus Guard minis look a bit dated... what are the chances they'll update those? I know dinos just got those new sculpts, is that all they are getting? also was this list made before those new units went live/were legal? Just wondering how useful the stuff in that box is going to be.
Greetings from Poland!!!
My trog is useful! Love the idea and will have to give it a whirl. My Sylvaneth friend won't see it coming.
I think the main limitation is drops. These castle shooting / alpha lists are 1 drop. So I’m not sure how the list can hold up to that. I’m gonna have to tweak it a bit and see if a battle reg variation is viable
I'd go 1 drop and drop the spacefolders stave, tbh
@@marcojacomedelangel2756 can't fit Kroak and the Trog into a 1 drop
@@ScrumHunger true. Still, 2 drops is better than 4, I guess
Man all the blood tithe this would give my khorne makes my mouth water
hey there, what do u think about dropping the raptodons and skinks and taking a 2nd slann + gnashing jaws ?
In Draco you get to put half of your army in reserve if you want to. If you play this list, the bastiladon and perhaps skinks may be set up off the board, but is there anything else you may want to put on the board later? Or do you summon in the skinks at the Trog to make sure the slanns, or actually your magic castle, is screened properly to begin with, rather than summoning the skinks in at the slanns?
Or would it be an idea, for more durability, to put a unit of guard with the Trog as well, since they can guard all heroes now?
Or perhaps, depending on the map, use the Trog spell to slow down enemy units even more by disabling retreat or run, and halving their charge, thereby creating another option to keep the Trog save for a least another turn
Guard in deepstrike + Trog = excellent combo
Yeah, would probably depend on matchup. If you have lower drops than the opponent and get to pick priority, put more in reserve!
And even when you have units in a battle reg bat, you can deploy some kn the board and some in reserve?
I was under the impression the all needed to dbe deployed at the same time with the batallion, so either all on the board or all in reserve
Guard dont work on monsters.
Oh that's nasty, can't wait to try it out
yes this list is the only one in book that seems op, and totally unfun to play against.
still not sure if will be enough to get 5/0s , since it need a double turn to really do damage, since after doing it troglodon will die for sure always, and then the list comes apart. and a average of 24-30 mortals is op, but not enough to win you the game unless you get double turn and complete delete the rival.
like i said not fun, never funny to delete the rival when you get the double without anything he can do, and if not double we wouldnt have any damage remaining, only kroak going up to do the same as troglodon, but it is way too squishy to do that.
hope it get faqued to not being able to tp troglodon in turn1.
It doesnt die if you just bridge it back tho 😂
@@cyanidedreamer how do u do that? would need to do it in your next turn no? so is better to repeat the delete bomb in case you got the double instead porting him back
@@sururu6 you can port the trogolodon back using bridge in the movement phase
@@michwis oh bridge . do u meant the endless spell?? dont have them so i always forget they exist. that would be broken as fuck. but why do u need troglo then? port kroak do bomb and port back with bridge
@@sururu6 becouse you can cast cosmic crush with it for another ani horde mortal spam :D. roll dice for each model in enemy unit each roll equal or exced their save is a mortal
This feels like a very all in strategy that can fall apart very easily once the Troglodon dies. Don’t love the Raptadons and think that 300 points could be used better. Another Bastilidon and 10 more skinks on the board to grab objectives?
If the trog dies, you can use the Slann.
I think we will see alot of variety in the rest of the list after the core of Kroak/Trog/Astrolith. Lots of room to give the list your own flavor!
So since the spacefolders stave and dracothians tail both trigger at the end of the movement phase, you can choose what order to resolve them?
Also, cosmic crush may as well just be called Mortek Crush
Yep!
@@CalebHastings idk why I was under the impression you couldn’t. That’s big
Ohoho im definetly trying this
I played the troglodon for fun many times, giving him Nimble (now gone) and Cloak of Feathers (can't be used on monsters now), with a +3" from fangs of sotek (now gone) and a run & charge/shoot from skink priest (now gone!) if I went second, I could run him 10"+6+3+4+1, 24", flying. If I got the double, he'd unleash kroaks wrath.
It was amusing, but of course not really reliable.
Now they just said "screw it, let's take away all the + movement stuff and just let him teleport".
People have been running more spell ignores lately due to Lumineth, but Teclis is just a hard counter to this list. Null Myriad OBR is ignoring spells on a 2+, Fyreslayer has an artifact for 4+ in 12", Sylvaneth a command trait for 4+ in 12", KB Murknob is 5+ in 12" but you can stack.
There's lots of counters, should this list actually become common.
You did neglect to mention the 15 CCP MW blast also though, everyone within 12" of the Trog would take d6 MW (1 fails), if you're really in a mood.
Plus the realmshaper, of course.
I wonder if there's room for a starseer to help disable wards from their key heroes.
The starseer can also potentially act as a secondary arcane vassal on a later turn if you lose the Troglodon. Not as effectively since it has a 12" range limit, but assuming the new starseer is still on a 50mm base, 12" + base size + 18" spell range could allow Kroak to hit things almost 32" away if you maximize the distance. That's still a very good range, especially on turn 2-3 if the enemy has moved up, and the Starseer can add its own spell to the mix and disable the ward of a tough target before bombing it. As long as the Astrolith Bearer is slightly forward of Kroak you could get both inside its range so the Starseer could also have an 18" range on that spell and could target the same thing.
It's not nearly as clean as the Troglodon bomb and requires more careful positioning, so it's not a reliable turn 1 tactic, but it could be worth considering as a followup if one is needed. Or you could just use a regular starpriest and forgo the ward removal and an inch of range, but I think that's worth the extra 20 points in a list like this.
If you get all your spells off I think you’ll have 16 CPP, as you get one from the faction terrain which i don’t think you included in your factoring.
Do you think any of the 16s are worth it to summon or is spamming skinks the best thing in your view?
The faction terrain counts as a cosmic node but doesn't give a CPP
What are your thoughts on skink weapon choices now that boltspitters only have one attack? I've seen people advocating for javelins on screening units, but that 8" range just feels so short...
Yeah, Javelins def have a better profile... but the range is so short... probably getting an extra turn of shooting from further out with the Boltspitters will equal the dmg from one round with the javelins.
Either one... Skinks aren't doing much damage in this book. They are strictly screens and board control.
Nasty💣💥
Re the interaction with the Stegadon Helmet and Mystic shield: I thought you could only modify a save once in either direction? (ie you could only give it a +1 and you opponent could only reduce it by -X [insert crazy tend here])
Yup, only +1. But giving more save bonuses helps to reduce enemy rend.
Only positive is limited negative isn’t and the cap is on the net result, so if you have +3 and a -1 that +2 caps at +1, but if you have +1 and -3 that goes to -2
Just got a couple Start Collecting Skinks boxes. How should I build the skinks?
I'd probably go Boltspitters and Clubs. Boltspitters have good range and you might sneak some shots thru. None of the melee weapons are great, but at least with Clubs you can throw some extra dice at the opponent if you accidentally get the skinks in melee.
How does lord kroak cast 4 times the same spell
His warscroll has a special rule for that spell (Celestial Deliverance) that allows it to be cast multiple times.
Please Caleb we want monsters/Kroxigor lists!
"How to lose gaming buddies in 3 easy steps!"
Caleb, your lovely RSE gives you another +1 CPP, so you actually start at 5CPP! That 1 point may not matter much, but who knows!? We’re all still learning! Keep up there fantastic videos!
It does not.
The Realmshaper is an arcane node, but only wizards and astroliths give you the free CPP. I made the same mistake for a bit.
This was totally a list in my head! Best part, with the new box, I have all the models needed! Although still will want a new banner.
Curious what you think are good summoning units. Skinks for cheap screens, terradons for a dive bomb charge? Spawn for the same (i see these having a fun melee charge, with stream of fire)? Maybe even chameleons for annoyance?
I would tend to default to Skinks. Very useful for creating screens and such in Starborne lists. BUT since you can only summon one unit per turn... I'd almost try and max out your CPP summoned unit if you can. Bring in a Spawn of Chotec (gets to shoot that phase) or Raptadons (+1 to charge). And Terrawings can be CLUTCH if you are fighting a low bravery army.
@@CalebHastings thanks! Things to consider for sure
🐸+☠+🦎= 💥
The beasts all off board gonna be a bit hard too
Ha! Yep. Null deploy and low drop alphas will be a hard counter!
The Troglobomb is the thing I'm most excited to try out when the box arrives
I don’t understand how your arcane vassal can be anywhere on the board when it states they need to be 12” apart
It's the second half of the second paragraph. "within 12" or 1 friendly oracle anywhere on the battlefield"
Skink oracle is special - it can be anywhere unlike other skink wizards (which are within 12 as you stated yourself).
This sounds cancerous to play against. There’s literally zero counter play except for making sure you try to screen. I think I would feel bad playing this list vs anyone. I’ll be focusing on coalesced since I don’t want to see the player across from me become demoralized lol.
@@ClovisLaRoche This is a tourney list through and through. Nothing wrong with that. Just read the room and realize who you're playing and what the expectations for the game are. If you bring it to play with some friends for game night, expect to have a few less friends at the end of the evening. Unless of course you're all practicing for a tourney.
Does this still work?
Nope. Not really. Only one spell can go thru the Trog now. :(
BUT, you could always just teleport Kroak!
A bit riskier, but still fun.
Starborne can still push out a TON of MW even without the Trog Bomb.
@CalebHastings that makes a lot of sense! Still hurting after the last balance patch's cruel blow to my Coalesced boys
Thats not 18 d3 mortal wounds
well just hope GW is going to nerf this fast as they nerf Gitz
This is toxic af - have fun😂