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I honestly feel like your brutally honest stance against NFTs is really needed and don’t be discouraged ever to not keep speaking up about it especially because so many people are pushing into mainstream and scamming people. Always appreciate these convos ❤️
@@charalanahzard My thoughts exactly. I don't know enough about the topic to make any type of judgement of whether you are correct. I look forward to watching more vids to find out. That said, seeing you be very firm about your opinion makes me happy!
It really sounds like Troy should have had this conversation before publicly endorsing a company that did not exist 12 months ago. The thing where Mike points out that NFT companies "rarely do" have a long term plan feels like it should have been an enormous, huge red flag.
I agree, like, I just think Troy is a little, pretentious, which there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I consider myself pretentious at times. I think Troy's heart was in the right place, that he genuinely wants to help artists, but he's just a little misinformed about NFTs
@@RDR911 that’s the problem with the level of success and fame Troy has reached, he’s a bit delusional nowadays… they way he talks, acts, reacts etc… it’s like he sees himself as the Steve Jobs of the video game world if you will. It’s very bizarre how he’s turned out, he’s just a very weird guy that drinks his own koolaid way too much.
I’m really disappointed by Troy, such a talented guy who made such a huge impact in the video game industry, and in some of my favorite titles, doing this dumb ploy. Really sucks
I think the key thing that Austin and Troy may not be aware of is the absolute *fatigue* that already exists in the NFT conversation. A lot of us are no longer interested in a "dialogue" or a "conversation" about NFTs anymore. Alanah touched on this but a lot of us have already had the dialogue and the conversations, we've learned about the technology, and we've found 95% of the defense to be frustrating, misleading, toxic, and abusive. If I see someone I like selling NFTs, I'm going to express displeasure, unfollow, and move on, because I don't have the energy or the responsibility to convince everyone otherwise. I don't know any of you, but from what I know of you, Mike and Alanah are both people I have a tremendous amount of faith in to be able to explain where the technology and the conversation is at, and I wish you the best Troy. Thanks for letting us hear this conversation.
Yeah if Troy is really willing to listen I think they shouldn't have a hard time explaining to him that the problem was NFT's Maybe he can team up with the people those NFT guys stole from
@@alalalala57 Everything is constantly happening all the time, dude. If the conversation is to be had it's because we're being made aware of it on an unprecedented level but it's one of dozens of conversations on the table right now and more than half of them seem like they're just more bad news. Stress adds up and does not make distinctions.
@@alalalala57 It's quick to you, because the problem didn't effect you or you weren't in whatever circles that were affected. The conversation is happening for you for the first time, it is happening for the person telling you about what's wrong for the 50,000th time. for a funny parallel, it's like those people who get all into para-social relationships and then get mad when a famous person doesn't react well to their "totally funny joke" to the person making the joke, it's a totally unique and funny thing to say, to the famous person it's having to deal with explaining why something is inappropriate for the 1,00th time in a day.
@@alalalala57 As a game artist, I have now spent just about a full year discussing and explaining NFTs (along with all the damaging ramifications thereof) to people almost every single day, and often 20x a day. Fatigued is right. This isn't quick or new - it's pervasive, annoying, detrimental and tiring.
This podcast has taught me more about communicating (especially with people with conflicting ideas) effectively than anything else I've come across. Always informative and always enjoyable. Love you all.
@@charalanahzard this comment and my agreement with it make me wish Jason Schrier and Troy can sit down and hash out whatever shit that was that trended that day as well. I just feel like they're having miscommunication and that makes me sad.
@@sincerlyeric6585 Not to throw shade, as that's not normally my thing, but personally I think ever since his first book came out, Jason has become more and more like the end of Troy's tweet taken in a literal sense. That dude hands out blocks to criticism like beads on Mardi Gras. His work has been phenomenally important to the industry so it's been rough to watch.
@@sincerlyeric6585 Im not sure when that will be possible, as Jason seems more content to dunk on people than have conversations. Similar to Troy's mistake here, if you come out of the gate on attack mode, you've closed the door on discourse before it can even begin... and Jason, talented though he may be, has certainly mastered that craft.
@@RobbyGood1 yeah which I suppose you could angle this that my comment is more directed at him than Troy. But that seems besides the overall point. Which. Is that this video is refreshing and more people should have candid conversations with thier friends. Not all have to be public displays. But it is refreshing to see.
Was both looking forward to and dreading this episode.. the thing that surprises me is Troy’s supposed “ignorance” towards the whole NFT thing but the assertiveness he exhibited when tweeting about it..
He was assertive about the inevitable future of the VO tech, he was thinking about the hate some actors would have rather than the broader NFT picture.
It's not surprising considering how heavily the nft market relies on Ponzi and pyramid scheme strategies, using big buzz words to reel greedy people in and slowly convincing them that this is *the next big thing* and the people who will be against it just don't want to see them succeed and avoiding carefully the difficult questions while coming off as confident and prepared until some naive dude falls for it and starts repeating what they were taught and the cycle continues,, he knew nothing of substance going into it and was trusting enough to be tricked, not that that's an excuse as he is a grown ass man and the internet is free
@@rontheron4807 I just think Troy is a little, pretentious, which there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I consider myself pretentious. I think Troy's heart was in the right place, that he genuinely wants to help artists, but he's just a little misinformed about NFTs
@@eighthlegofthephantomtroup1842 a little? He’s mastered the art portraying himself as the cocky, pretentious, arrogant hippie actor. He seems like a nice guy in every day life, but his “persona” that he portrays on camera or on social media really rubs people the wrong way.
Discussions, disagreements, and criticisms are all totally fine/frankly welcomed, but I will remove any comments that are personal attacks (specifically name-calling), mentions of Troy’s family, or threats. Fuck the fuck off with that.
People who have disagreements is a perfectly fine and normal thing, it's also healthy because as a learning process, disagreements can lead to realisations and learning from one's mistakes. Personal attacks, threats and harassment not only cultivate further division and even resentment that can drive people on the receiving end of it to further radicalisation about one's own decisions and beliefs but is also extremely disgusting and totally unwarranted. If your first reaction to anything in life is personally attack and harass people who you disagree with, there's something seriously wrong with you and you do nothing to actually help people around you, you just have zero idea how to be an adult and are an errant child running around screaming their heads off. If people actually had meaningful discussions, listened and spoke like adults to one another instead of grabbing pitchforks and torches and essentially using mob mentality to try and ruin people's lives, we would actually be making progress and helping people who have made mistakes to change for the better and learn from them. Going after people doesn't equate to justice nor does it change people or better them. Violence solves nothing, threats solves nothing, harassment solves nothing. Being an intellectual and criticising maturely and being reasonable in talking to them is what gets you somewhere and opens up paths to solving something. It's the pathetic, idiotic noise of the internet's worst tendancies that drowns out all sense of logic and rationality and is a real cancer.
@39:50 is a very privileged take, saying that you better find a new job if you worry that missing one paycheck will make you miss your rent. A *lot* of people, myself included, live this way, and it's not as easy as just finding another job. These kinds of changes to industries can have massive impacts on people living paycheck to paycheck, and those people are right to be concerned when the benefit is most clearly for those who already have financial security.
Its called being a responsible adult... lol If you cant do those things then its clear you think in a manner that is not different from an irresponsible child.. that is in a previledge in it self.
Yep, that statement made me very unhappy. Absolutely no perspective on how many people live paycheck to paycheck, and kind of an implication that it's their *choice* to do so. There was also the earlier assertion that everyone needs to be putting money towards retirement. Some people really don't even grasp the fact that quite a lot of folks have negative money, do they?
@@deantjewie that is absolutely wrong... society has and can function without minimal wage.. it was invented because of racism. Lol let me explain before you get upset. The premise that you cant hire people that was willing to work for less which at that time mostly black people. Mininum wage indirectly made black people poorer. Some would say, because of children working that is why mininum wage was invented, but child labor law is could easly be seperate and is.. just made under one huge bill at its first conception. we still have records of kids making their case that they was happy working than going to school and sitting bored and not understanding anything in class... You can also make the argument what about mining and factories... its much much safer in factories and children dont have to take jobs working in mines. Those was mostly adopted/orphans being taken advantage of.. it say more about the individual using children than the jobs that just wanted workers. Individuals could had easily stop that by caring more. Same with the union. But it was invented on racist pretense. Most people dont like competition. just some white people that wanted secure their position on being paid more and only. Dont believe me? Whites are trying to set up a union in africa. Africa is nothing special, but.... why do you need a union in africa? Lol Competition is enough for competitive labor in the work force. Unions i think is only necesssary in one entity organization like american football for example. Children that did work before mininum wage was able to help provide for their family, they actually contributed in their family household and the government/ states took that away on false pretense and the great depression which feds caused in america at that time(cant forget that) or you can say liberal ideas(morally good ideas that made society worse).
I think Alanah perfectly understood the situation here. I like to believe that most people are well intentioned even when they do something that seems otherwise. But the "hate or create" part of this was just really hard to look past. I can understand where Austin, knowing Troy, might not have had trouble seeing this as anything other than the light hearted ending that Troy thought it was. But I'm glad Alanah was able to see it more from another perspective. It came off as aggressive to any possible criticism. And as someone who knows very little about Troy, one of the only things I have heard about him, is instances of him being antagonistic towards games criticism. The hate or create tag here is a sentiment I've seen him express before. So it was really hard not to see it that way. I'm just glad he's listening
THIS is how adults and friends disagree with each other while supporting one another. It's also how someone with an open mind takes on feedback and values it. Respect to everyone for this.
What you guys have done here today is what I wish would happen more in general. You took a serious topic, especially for one of your friends, and had a civil, open-minded discussion. Kudos to every single one of you, especially Troy.
I mean the credit rests mostly on Troy for that; alot of people in his situation would have gotten defensive or taken Austin's method of complaining about "bad faith replies" And if Troy had done that it shouldn't be civil
@@mitchellhorton9382 I felt for Austin in this video. I think he was struggling with the urge to defend his friend and I'm glad Troy corrected him at one point when Austin was being too generous with his take.
Why can't this be something like buying 3-D assets for a blender or game engine etc? Wouldn't that help devs more? Does it really need to be tied with nfts?
Well as far as bigger, publicly traded companies, not necessarily since they are trying to appeal to shareholders rather than the nft sale being the point in and of itself
Because the Crypto-bros have infiltrated the higher executive ranks of these major companies. Ubisoft, Square Enix, Sega, Konami, RUclips Gaming, Twitch, Discord... even eSports teams have some NFT bro who wants to use their day job to make NFT $$$$$$ Every new start up in silicon valley probably has a question or line item in their pitch about Blockchain at this point.
I literally just watched the earlier episode where you guys (Troy was absent) had a discussion on NFTs. Then the Troy new dropped, and suddenly this episode came up. What a day.
Huge fan of all you do, Alanah. Such a class act of holding a difficult discussion with your friends while still sticking to your convictions. Thanks for existing!
I literally only learned about the tweet and the backlash earlier today so color me surprised to see a whole podcast about it. I am thankful for the introduction, Alanah, because had I not seen this mentioned in a video earlier today I would’ve been completely lost.
Yeah me too. I haven't been able to log into twitter in a long while and just haven't bothered to resolve it. So, I had no idea about this. Glad she framed it so I could be more engaged and kind of learn stuff about the situation. Really haven't known anything about NFT's till this podcast started talking about it.
This episode was a fantastic example of how to have challenging conversations amongst friends, and was genuinely touching to watch. You all have had differing opinions/ views in the past on topics ranging from the silly to the serious, that in hindsight served as practice runs for this type of event. True friendship is built on these good habits, and so is true progress. It was very refreshing to see that on display.
*Timestamps!* Starting out with future Alanah's explanation of the situation, and Troy's tweet 1:38 The disclaimer / Alanah and her history of speaking out against NFT's, and Bithell's take / Troy on being responsible 5:16 Mike on what said tweet mirrors in regards to others supporting NFT's "crypto bros", and Troy on taking criticism / Troy's intentions 7:45 Alanah's thoughts on the tweet, and what exactly is Voiceverse? (9:45 follow-up question) 10:20 Troy working towards a solution that's bettering 12:08 On the tech itself, and a very Bithell disclaimer / Technology and ethics / No part of Troy's interest in this was profit? (13:40) 16:18 Austin joins / Troy on one of the things he's learned, about Twitter and conversation, and reactions (Leave the man's family out of it) 20:42 Mike's not particularly spicy rant, and it's a Fanta night (more of Mike's thoughts on NFT's) / Aren't jpegs hosted on a server that still has the ability to go down? 25:15 Alanah's point on if companies end support, and Bithell's follow-up / Austin on possible consumer protection, and his thoughts on the reaction to the tweet 29:30 More on the end of the tweet and different interpretations / Austin on what he won't empathize with, and Alanah breaks down the choice of phrasing of the tweet (and Austin's response) / By tweeting you are asking for opinions 32:43 Troy puts it all into perspective, and the clear distinction / Story on becoming more optimistic, his changes and what he's learned / His tweet is not actually intended to be in support of NFT's? (35:49) 36:18 Austin's thoughts on the intent, and the similarities to the Tina Guo sample library / Do modern musicians dislike sampling? (with possibly taking away jobs from musicians) And do voice actors have similar concerns? 40:50 Thoughts on if everyone's jobs are at risk of such automation / Bad faith takes, and more on the responses 45:01 Alanah's takeaway on the bad faith aspect, and some of what Austin saw (and his joke response) / Mike on when opinions really can suck 48:54 Troy and the feather floating around the topic, and how it impacts him / Encouraging civil and informed conversation 51:25 Mike's personal mission to help Troy, and the way things could be done / Troy's message to us 53:30 What does Troy know now about NFT's? / Alanah and the future of talking about NFT's post Troy tweet, reaffirming her stance on them, and the blockchain 56:42 What are good ways to move the conversation forward? / Possible positive outcomes from Troy's tweet, and to change the facts / Appreciation for this podcast 1:00:28 Austin's favorite reactions to the podcast (and fucking NICE, Bithell) / Appreciation all around! 1:01:47 Alanah intros/outros the show whilst pointing in mostly the right directions, and gets one last shot in at Troy 😂 And that's it! And a thank you to Scott for the assistance lol. See you all at the next! 👍 On a closing/side note (not really believing in NFT's myself, for the record) : I share the sentiment Austin brought up about keeping things civil and chill amongst friends, like you all do. It means alot and is one of my (usually not mentioned) favorite things of the show. Willing to disagree but always respectfully, and moving the conversation forward. Something to learn from, no doubt
Thanks so much for this. Not sure if it’s something that you do regularly with their podcasts but if so, I’ll definitely look out for you in the comments. Thank you for helping to organize their conversation in a way that’s easier to reference later when sharing bits with people that won’t sit down and watch/listen for a full hour.
I appreciate the update at the start that this podcast was recorded before more information was available. And I really appreciate all of you having having a completely candid and civil conversation about an uncomfortable subject. I highly respect all of you for that. *Edit (After finishing the podcast)*: As someone who only knows Troy as a fan of his work and from the way he comes across in interviews or from interactions on Retro Replay or other podcasts I think I have some idea of who he is. Obviously I don't know him in person so I can just make assumptions. So when I read the tweet in question I want to say I had a similar theme in mind of what the rest of the group was describing. That he didn't mean to come across as polarizing as he did. But Alanah hit the nail on the head in the beginning. The jargon that was used was very NFT bro culture-esque and that definitely made the situation worse than it could have been. So I am glad that this was part of the conversation. I truly get the desire to help creators and that is a noble cause and I am happy Mike brought up that there are other and better ways to go about that. Ways that don't have this negativity attached to them and are more sincere in their application. I truly despise the methods and greed that companies and individuals display when it comes to NFTs. It is so clearly a try to get rich quick scheme that I hope situations like today educate more and more people about the issues NFTs bring and don't let as many people fall for the scam they are. Last but not least thank you Troy for being part of the conversation.
He has one of the most fragile egos in the business. He literally created a petition to remove a negative review of Uncharted 4 from Metacritic. He also has a superiority complex where he acts as though he's untouchable on the sets he works. Most of the women he has worked with come out saying how "creepy" he comes across.
@@gfear24 I wonder based on what basis you wrote the last sentence? I've never heard from any of his costars that he's 'creepy' to work with. In fact, I've heard the opposite
@@gfear24 When it comes to fragile egos, he's basically admitted that he's exhibited that in the past, and is working on it. Evidence shows that to be the case. I find him kind of a goober sometimes, like here, but he does seem like a person who is consciously working on his own evolution. Those are some inflammatory accusations in your final sentence, and I've heard nothing like that, so unless you have evidence to back them up you should think twice before you hurl those down.
@@Lurklen I agree, The "Creepy" accusations are baseless and weird to add, But the rest of the comment is true. I was a fan of troy for a very long time and stopped a few years back because of the person he is. He's only sorry now cause there was backlash. I'm 100% positive if there was none, He would've went full force with it. He even contradicts himself with this whole NFT thing about getting rich quick. Also he's well into his 40's, He's not some 20 year old upstart VA who needs to grow and learn, He knew full well what he was doing. This is 100% damage control.
Kudos all for the conversation, let's hope it continues because Troy still has massive blindspots, sounds very naive and is using very spurious arguments to defend himself. He's been talking to them for weeks but has so little detail on it, clearly not done anywhere near enough due diligence. A lot of ppl are genuinely tired of the NFT convo as it's been had so many times already. I think the potential effect on the VO market is a problem worth more discussion. It got a bit breezed over in this podcast but it does feel like Troy (whether he means too or not) is pulling up the ladder behind him, making it a lot harder for 'entry level' VO artists whilst he trades off his industry position to make more money for less actual work (i.e. not recording lines, just letting the algorithm create it). I think it still needs to be proven that this tech (especially w/ troy's voice) isn't going to be automating jobs that less-known/experienced VOs could have done. And I did cringe when he said 'this is not about making money for me' then 30 secs later said 'i'm hustling man, i need to make sure my son is provided for'. Nothing wrong with looking after your family but it does make it sound like you're doing whatever you can to make as much money as you can now. Just saying 'it's going in the bank for my son' doesn't absolve a get rich quick scheme, especially if it's also awful for the environment and possibly for your own industry.
I think its morally incorrect in a lot of cases cause the NFT may of been stolen artwork. A lot of high profile artists have reported their artwork has been stolen by crypto NFT scams Morally if you can identify the artwork, report it to the artist that their work is being used without their permission.
@@Cotsos88 I mean, you probably _shouldn't_ right click a car, even if you can. Someone worked hard making that car, the least you could do is pay them for their work. Well actually I suppose the least you could do is just take it without paying :p but you get my point.
Yeah all of Troy's takes that frustrate me the most are when he's blind to his privilege. At least he surrounds himself with friends who call him on it.
Having watched the podcast now, it sounds like Troy really didn't/doesn't know anything about NFTs, and tried to partner with the company over some AI tech he found interesting. Glad to hear him acknowledge that the tweet was dumb.
Feel like it's on Troy to do the due diligence tho when you're promoting someone like that, and especially since he knows how people feel about NFT's in general
The problem is you can't say you didn't know how divisive it is because of ignorance, when he sums up the tweet saying people who disagree are haters. He was knowingly combating the detractors before he even posted the tweet, cause he knew it was a divisive stance.
@@anthonynonoya4486 no one manages to think critically 100% of the time. He fucked up and he's accepting that. I'm sure he'd love to have a mulligan and apply some critical thinking before hand but what's done is done. At least he's willing to be told he's wrong and learn from it.
@@colli_ to be honest, I was fairly annoyed with the tweet and frankly don't believe him in this video, it was pure damage control. And not a particularly good example of it. That being said, this video did pretty much permanently ruin my opinion of him, and it had nothing to do with NFTs. It was his comment about getting a new job if you are living paycheck to paycheck. It's some judgemental elitist bullshit. I grew up at or just above the poverty line. And at one point I did live paycheck to paycheck. I found that comment deeply offensive.
@@anthonynonoya4486 tbf it is how you get out of the poverty line. I lived it the first 23 year of my life. Not that I want to side with Troy on anything, but you literally have to work yourself out of it and most of the time that requires the risk of finding a better job. Nothing just improves on its own. That doesn't mean immediately quit the one you have, but it does mean actively trying for anything and everything thats better. If you worked fast food and then got another fast food job, but didn't think for a second to go find a temp agency or a manpower or an action total staffing, then you arent improving your situation, you're just working more hours at the same pay rate. If you have a decent job and the city you live in is expensive af, then you might need to move if you want to improve. Fast food in the middle of nowhere will get you an apartment and pay your bills, in the city it does nothing. Its not elitist if its true. Its what you have to do especially if you dont qualify for assistance or help. Might help more if you weren't taxed to breath basically, but with the way things are now that is the path and yeah it fucking sucks dude. I've had friends pay for a greyhound ticket go to the coast and hustle for jobs. One of my friends said it best, if you ain't climbing you're sinking.
@@anthonynonoya4486 it’s true, honestly the majority of people I know live paycheck to paycheck. We have families and houses but that doesn’t mean life is easy or we can just get a new job. Life isn’t that simple
I wish i had a friend like Mike. The way he told Troy he'd help to make the AI voice thing happen was really heart warming. I also wish i had a friend like Austin. The level of compassion he shows to others always makes me smile. Additionally i wish i had a friend like Alanah. Someone insightful and informed who asks questions before assuming intentions. That's rare and awesome. And i definitely wish i had a friend like Troy. Someone who doesn't attack when people disagree, but also not someone who backs down and runs away. Someone who sincerely wants to listen, learn and discuss why we're disagreeing without any underlying hostility. You guys rock.
This is honestly a really interesting perspective on a “controversy”. It’s really unique to hear not only an hour long talk from the person in the midst of it but also having three genuine friends there that are holding him accountable. This is all of course very sad since Troy had good intentions and was just honestly pretty ignorant this time. But it’s also very heartwarming to see how strong all of your guys friendship is.
Cheers to you on seeing the silver-lining of a negative situation. I’ve always wished that the rest of the internet could be more emotionally mature in situations like these.
Look, people are probably going to go into this thinking "Aww, Alanah is just defending her friend" blah blah, but I think you (and Mike) have done a good job in making it clear you think NFTs are dumb, this shouldn't have happened, and you're not for it. Guess what, sometimes people's friends do dumb, stupid things that you don't agree with.
@@charalanahzard I was honestly surprised (pleasantly yet sadly) that you would openly tell him that supporting NFT's would actually threaten your friendship That's what moral principles mean, and it's good to see someone willing to openly stand by them
@@mitchellhorton9382 Absolutely! So relieved to see that integrity here, as Alanah always displays. Honestly huge props to everyone for their part here, each position the 4 of them were in required a lot of courage to discuss as they did.
Great discussion between friends sharing their perspectives. Shoutout to everyone involved! Props to Troy for being open enough to be part of the conversation right after the twitter meltdown. But that's pretty much all I can give him props for. He didn't come off very genuine imo. 1. His manager and some people in his "team" were not sure that his partnership with the company would be a good idea. He still went with it, while not trying to inform himself about the company or NFTs in general. Then he mentions that "information is key/power". It's either just stupid of him, or he is very hypocritical. To be fair, he admitted that his decision wasn't a smart one, so I personally don't think that he was a hypocrite in this case. 2. When Alanah actually went straight to the point by asking him if he did it "for the money", he said no. A minute later, he starts talking about his retirement plan and how he wants to secure a future for his son (which is totally fair and relatable) and that this partnership was just a short-term experiment that he got paid for. So, he insinuates that he didn't do it for the money, because it was short-term? Isn't that the definition of a cash grab - to go in and out. I actually believe him, that he was interested in the technology and the chances it might create for other "creators", but come on...it was obviously ALSO about the money. 3. He (and Austin) seemed a little tone-deaf when it came to the struggles of smaller creators, VAs and so on. Luckily, Mike intervened and highlighted the fact, that all of them were very successful in their fields and very far removed from the struggles of people trying to get a foot in the door (in a modern and internet driven society) . I just really hope that after all of this, Troy will take his time to actually inform himself about NFTs, the company that he is advertising and why many people had such a strong reaction. Death threats and personal attacks are obviously unacceptable. Once again, enjoyed the discussion a lot :)
I’m an educator, and the biggest takeaway here should be Troy is willing to learn and listen to his friends. I highly respect everyone for this conversation, and think Troy will seriously take all of there points seriously. A great conversation among friends.
The only negative takeaway I had was thinking that Troy probably should have done all of this supposed research and learning before he publicly attached his name to a company. Like, he kind of came on here and said "I know nothing about how they actually work they just said some fancy words at me and I liked them"
Sure, but I expect grown adults to learn about technologies / companies before partnering with them. Like it sounds like Troy knew nothing about NFTs and was more interested in the AI voice over tech which is something that companies already trying to do without NFTs.
Troy frequently has takes I think are poorly thought out, but one thing I really do respect about him is he is not full of shit when it comes to trying to improve, and listening to criticism. The guy can come off as a handsome goober sometimes, but he is thoughtful when it comes to his own failings, and his desire to do better, and trying to understand where people are coming from. I agree with those saying he should have been wiser before jumping into something like this, but what I think is from this in the future he will be, which is more than can be said for many people.
@@Lurklen why tho what did he do that wrong tho tell me tell me what is wrong with what he did he was very accurate when he said people hates for no reason
also feels to me like that he knows how to do stuff propperly, in a way that works. even after alanah ask him to explain it, there was nothing he said that explained how this needs nft-tech to work.
And that he said it publicly and on record speaks volumes on his character. Making it his "personal mission"? That's an awesome thing to say, and makes me think he's in the know enough and knows the right people where what Troy truly wanted out of this can be done in other ways. I don't always agree with Mike, and think he's been woefully ignorant and naive about some other things. But not about this. I know he's a stand-up person and wasn't blowing smoke here. This was such an amazing and stand up thing to tell Troy with essentially (at the time of this writing) 73,000 witnesses.
41:49 Alanah's look says it all. I don't agree with Troy saying he's the most under threat. I don't think his level of voice acting is in danger from this tech. In AAA titles voice actors of Baker's level are hired for more than just mo-cap and voice - they are used for marketing as well. Video games on that level do the hollywood style press junkets as well and that is built into the contracts. Their value is much higher to a project than just voice. It's the voice actors trying to break in that might suffer.
Yeah and also that take from him is just so removed from reality, like I'm aware maybe it's different in a creative space like in games/animation etc. but in all of my experiences with corporations, if it ever comes down to cracking down on costs it is the people at the lowest rung of the ladder who aren't getting paid a lot that get hit because they are replaceable. Troy Baker is not replaceable, even if he puts his backing into an AI that can somewhat convincingly put his voice to script without his involvement, it won't be him and it won't have the same range of expression or promotional value. The person getting screwed over by that are the people on audition sites trying to break into whatever little role they can, because if they can replace an actor who can only do a simple performance with an AI Troy Baker for cheaper or even just a little more if the AI is worth that, why wouldn't they?
Mike I really appreciate you chiming in and, for lack of a better phrase, "checking the privilege" of the folks on the chat about starting out vs being established. Troy not being worried about being replaced is not the same as a young dreamer worried about being replaced by the AI.
Yeah. His comment about how “they aren’t gonna cut the low level guy, their gonna cut me cause I’m expensive” is blatantly wrong. Companies never fire the expensive guy to save money. They’d rather fire 100 little guys. And in troy’s industry his name has a lot of weight. Seeing Troy baker attached to a game is gonna draw customers. The companies know this. To them he is worth the money. But if they can replace 20 low level actors who aren’t well known, that’s where they’re gonna make the cuts. I still think the tech is really cool and I get the benefit for small studios who can’t afford actors. I just think he needs to be aware that the axe is never gonna fall on him. He’s goddamn Troy Baker. He will never struggle for work
This podcast taught me that I will never know everything about a topic and that there is always more to a topic than at face value. I hope that Troy and Austin can learn this too cause it feels like their intentions come from more naivity than maliciousness. Granted I don't personally know them but I hope that they can take this as an opportunity to learn and grow.
Troy tries to ground himself so hard that it comes of as almost ignorant. Name recognition is a thing. Any time he's a voice in a game it is advertised. The game wants people to know the voice of Joel is in this game. If he stops getting roles because he's to expensive all he has to do is lower his price. At the same price he will always get the job over someone with out name recognition. There are 1000's of voice actors out there but it is always same 10 people in triple A games. And there is a reason for that. The fact he thinks he's at risk because he's too expensive kind of says it all.
I actually saw it more as a similar take to when musicians or film actors become “washed out”. Regardless of how famous or talented you are if the industry moves past you it can become nearly impossible to maintain your career and relevance in your career.
Yep, there's a reason why "Troy Baker is in every game" is a thing. Because A.) every game he's in advertises him as being in it and B.) honestly, he is in pretty much every big name/big title game. He's not the every man. He's not the small scale, low key no name voice actor just cutting his teeth in the industry or trying to make a name for himself. He doesn't live the life the standard voice actor does.
@@tresher5 I would think so but by virtue of his name and status alone, I'd imagine Troy gets way more offers than Mr. New Voice Actor. And Troy himself in this podcast mentioned several times that there were people who might want his services but "just couldn't afford him."
@@tresher5 most voice actors are ficore, especially people that work in Anime. The union sets the minimum rate, which is how veteran VAs could buy houses and have health insurance. That is NOT the situation for people starting in VA today, even with industry success.
19:18 Troy says this now, but when he tweeted "you can hate or you can create" it sounded like he was taking a stance against NFT haters which is the opposite of inviting his followers into a conversation.
Yep, that's the section of the tweet that also put me off. It makes me slightly skeptical, all respect to everyone on the podcast, but I feel like this is Troy's exit strategy where he rewrites the narrative and makes us ignore that the initial tweet seems to acknowledge the decision being unpopular, which makes ignorance seem contradictory. I don't wish twitter witch hunts on even the worst of enemies, but also NFT's are horrific and I'm sure a lot of people feel that this is the only way to stop corporations from deciding this is the next big thing. Cancel culture is product of the populous feeling powerless and unrepresented by the ones making decisions.
if you watch further along you can tell that he was expecting backlash from voice actors cause of the voice AI tool that could potentially take jobs away from smaller VAs
There's a bit of Oppenheimer revisionism here. Don't confuse his early goals with his later change of heart. He joined the military for a reason, and it wasn't free nuclear energy for mankind.
So you want everyone to be ashamed of their country and act like a bot cog in a machine? Hmm...there's a place you can go where at least the latter is already in full effect.
@@samalton5837 if their country does shameful things then yeah absolutely. Be proud of the good and ashamed or disappointed in the bad. I love my country but I am deeply ashamed of some things that go on here.
@@samalton5837 that's what it is to be English we take the piss out of ourselves harder than any other country it keeps us humble and not blind to the problems in front of us
“I have no idea if I will have a job ever again” - with all due respect I found this argument of not knowing if Troy will get jobs past 2022 disingenuous. Being arguably the biggest VA in the industry, the games industry would need to collapse on New Years Eve for that statement to hold a crumb of weight - just came across as emotional deflection lol
@@thegags there’s such a thing as disingenuous humility. Like I get wanting to be humble. But when your that famous and acting like your not any better or any less at risk than the little guy, it’s extremely insulting to the little guy. Troy knows that he’s more valuable to the industry than most other actors. To pretend otherwise is just insulting and does a disservice to himself and everyone else in the industry.
This is where I'm at as well. I don't want to engage with them AT ALL. IN ANY FORM. I simply won't do it. NFTs are not inevitable. We can all just not engage.
@@crisbernabe2866 I can only speak for myself. But I think the difference is just that people won’t stop talking about them! Also much more theft seems to happen when it comes to NFTs then coins. I’m a artist myself and I’ve even seen some people steal my own work and try selling them as NFTs. When it comes to the gaming space I literally haven’t seen ANYONE justify what benefits it has! It almost seems like major gaming company’s are looking at NFTs as lootboxes 2.0
@@sinisin2000 Unfortunately, people DO engage though...look at the current Konami auction of their Castlevania Nasty F****** Things...there are a few over $3000 and at least one close to $8000 last time I checked a few hours ago. This NFT scam is no different from any other...scammers don't have to fool all of the people, all of the time...as long as they fool a few...
With each of these I love Mike a little bit more. He's bloody lovely. Would be good if the focus on leaving stuff for kids generally was more focused on the health of the planet rather than money.
Conversation around 41:00 mark - I am with Mike there. I think Troy is talkung about how big studios with a budget that can allow them to hire a person of Troy's caliber may want to cut down on cost. While Mike is specifically talking about a person that is only starting to work in a field. As soon as such type of technology, where one can create a good enough replacement for a real actor exists, it might become significantly harder to build up that initial portfolio for a new actor, to be invited to a more advanced jobs. I am not sure if it will happen, but it can understand that it can be concerning for those that are just starting up.
I do disagree with what Troy said about them looking to get rid of the upper above the line talent. I worked my ass off as a building maintenance manager at night while working on film and TV sets during the day. When Covid hit, everyone I know who was new in the industry (below the line newer crew) were let go almost immediately, and when things started to open up again we were the absolute last people that they thought of hiring back before well established talent and crew. I do understand his point, but I think generalizing like that was a bit off base.
Even 2 months later this conversation is still very interesting and enlightening. The fact that Troy's tweet made me pause a second and read the company explanation of what was their business is a sign of how much i value his views and opinions.
I sincerely hope Troy takes the L with some humbleness instead of doubling down or deflecting. This can be a valuable learning experience. Great work getting this podcast out so promptly.
I thought he very clearly was humble in his response and willingness to listen and learn to his friends here in this very podcast. I realize the internet at large isn’t going to watch an hour+ podcast to get an update and this will be reduced to a Jason Schreier piece which will then be further copy-pasted by games media at large. But I’m glad this exists so people can go and watch for themselves and make up their own minds about Troy and his intentions.
@@ShayneRawls Yeah agreed. I’m glad that this is here for ppl that want to actually hear the full story as well as his colleagues hold him accountable for it, but it doesn’t distill an hour’s information into a single tweet (and that’s not an easy tweet to write either). He’s probably best off tweeting out that he’s re-thought his involvement with this company due to the NFT component but still believes in the idea of empowering small creators with the ability to use the voice of a larger voice actor like himself, and then provide this link for anyone that wants to know more about what happened. What will probably happen though is Jason Schreier will write an article, which will be copy-pasted by gaming journalism writ large, and it will probably lack context and empathy for the subject of the piece as Schreier tends to focus on the gossipy-drama of things instead. And then there will be a lot of RUclips and Twitch gaming voices and commentators that dogpile on Troy Baker for something that he doesn’t sound like he cares about or necessarily believes in (the NFT component). I’m not a fan of anything NFT related but I do think that this conversation and controversy has the possibility to move the needle for the industry on how they try to implement NFTs into their games. And after this and the internet dragging Ubisoft for their NFT program (that they deleted), maybe this will end up being the best thing for getting them out of gaming, if temporarily awful for those involved.
What a lovely group of humans you are. The fact that you all come to these conversations with different backgrounds, perspectives, opinions, etc, and yet you have such grown-up, thoughtful, and loving conversations with each other is truly commendable. Additionally, I appreciate the way you check each other and hold each other accountable. Much props to Troy for being so open about his intentions and the criticism he's received. I love this show
It's nice that there exists little corners of the Internet where people can disagree, or not even disagree as if minds are made up but just explore an idea in a collective way. Where we're each throwing our incomplete pictures in the middle of the table Like Oppenheimer
I'd say that I disagree with Troy more often than with anyone else on the pod, by a fair margin actually, but having listened to/watched every episode, I have great affection for the man and don't doubt for a second that he approaches everything in good faith with pure intentions. I hadn't heard about any of this madness before today and didn't have a good grasp of exactly what had happened before watching. I'm extremely opposed to crypto and NFTs, but I think it's so unreasonable to transfer those feelings to someone coming into the debate innocently. I can see how someone not familiar with Troy could have read his tweet in the voice of the stereotypical NFT Bro, but anyone who has even a basic familiarity with him has no excuse for doing so. He’s infamously good people. I guess all I really want to mention is that there were several moments in this episode when I looked at Troy’s eyes and it broke my heart. He came to this conversation as he seems to come to most things - ready to listen and learn, with a sincere desire to grow from the experience and be right going forward, even if it means admitting he was wrong in the past. No matter how much he tried to put on a brave, positive face though, and he did have genuine moments of happiness and laughter with his friends, his eyes gave away the fact that he’d been put through the ringer. I hope Troy is through the worst of it and that things die down fast. If I was friends with him in real life, I have the feeling I’d jokingly rag on him over our points of contention on the regular, but damnit, if an angry mob came after him over some poorly chosen words in a tweet, they’d have to get through me first.
I’m glad that the four of you were able to have this conversation. Thanks for sharing. Also, for what it’s worth, I thought Austin’s reply to Troy’s tweet was very amusing
@@werwrwrwer483 THANK YOU! This was literally just a guy pretending to listen to placate his friends and fans. I didn’t feel one ounce of sincerity from him.
I'm struggling to get through this because he's apologising for how he phrased the tweet. Not for the fact that he's a part of a new technology that is harmful to careers, lives and the environment. I feel if you guys weren't friends you'd be challenging him to answer this properly.
AGREED, we had the exact same feeling. It took us 3 hours to get through this because we kept pausing to unravel all the ridiculous things he was saying. They asked the right questions in places, but rarely followed up when his answers clearly warranted pushing back on him.
@@shiningpecan6978 There is this guy named Refik Anadol who makes really amazing digital art using machine learning and AI who sold his work as NFTs for a lot of money. I thought it was cool that someone can sell their digital work like an actual painting. But then I find out about people stealing other's work using NFTs and that's obviously horrible so I guess without regulation not much good can come out of this.
Your assumption that the only application is in art, which is a money laundering scheme and tax evasion scheme with physical art, is where you’re misunderstanding. NFT has come to mean scam for people who don’t understand the underlying technology or the potential.
I just don't know how you get to January 14th 2022 without having a broad grasp of how, what certainly seems like a majority of, the internet, in particular the video game community, feels about anything NFT related.
Appreciate the discourse and that this would be addressed in such a frank manner. I do think that Troy and Austin were pretty disconnected with the reality of the "small guy". Troy is not at greater risk than the smaller voice actors. And while Austin is correct that there will be a portion that could not afford VO's who would use that sort of platform to add voice to products that they otherwise would not - there's also undoubtedly going to be a portion that use such a platform to cut costs in general. That's the potentially damaging part. That's the market that smaller VO's might be able to secure some work within, but if it's cheaper to just utilise that kind of platform than we know that companies will often choose the cheaper path. Not every VO is in a position to work on AAA games or the likes and AAA games or the likes are less likely to rely on that sort of platform than smaller projects as they have more resources at their disposal. I think it needs to be approached with care overall.
Please don't think I'm a crypto bro, I really don't care either way about crypto. Aside from maybe the environmental impact. With that out of the way, why does it matter if it will negatively affect the jobs of voice actors (I'm assuming VO is voice actors)? Shouldn't we be in favor of more efficiently using resources? (again, putting aside the environmental impact) I don't think companies should be expected to avoid automation, even if it destroys jobs. But maybe I'm misunderstanding.
This was mostly just alluded to in the podcast, but yeah, a significant number of smaller / aspiring VO people (legitimately imo) feel that this kinds of things is akin to Troy "pulling the ladder up behind him" so to speak. Troys and Austins view point really did seem a bit out of touch and Im glad that Mike and Alanah tried to put things into perspective, because all of them are already established people with a fuckton of name ("brand") recognition, "clout" and contacts.
"And while Austin is correct that there will be a portion that could not afford VO's who would use that sort of platform to add voice to products that they otherwise would not - there's also undoubtedly going to be a portion that use such a platform to cut costs in general. " But that is unavoidable. The "small guy" always has this problem no matter what. Entering a new field as someone with no experience, no reputation, no credit list ... has *always* been an uphill battle. And for a long list of endlessly changing reasons. In general, if you want to be a Voice Actor or composer or whatnot ... plan on it being fucking hard to get in. It is for everyone, and for those lucky enough to make it past those first stages and land on something resembling solid ground from which to build ... it's largely luck. Always has been. Whether you're talking Hans Zimmer, John Williams, or lil ol me. I don't see a way to fix that. It's the nature of creative fields that are also supremely competitive. There are many many jobs that offer stable entry-level income but creative fields are rarely those. And even that being true, our industries go way out of the way to try and mitigate that, and get better all the time. For example, I have an assistant and most other working composers do too. Many have big teams in fact. This provides credits, income, experience, a chance to be a fly on the wall and learn from those more tenured than you, etc. But those assistant jobs are also competitive! Sorry, semi-tangenting. I wanted to address one other thing re: these technologies eliminating work for 'the little guy.' I find people that fear automation or AI etc in the arts vastly underestimate the social component of this work. People don't hire Troy for the literal SOUND of his voice as much as the collaboration of working with him. He brings ideas. He brings life experience. He brings an X-factor beyond the literal execution of the craft. And the same can be said for all his counterparts at that echelon. Similarly, it was once said to me that the most composers (particularly on huge-budget, highly intense projects) aren't hired for their music so much as the fact that they're reliable. They get the job done, and constantly make the director/producers feel at ease. They make the process feel enjoyable. No AI can do that, until the day that humans stop caring about social interaction
@@awintory While youre absolutely correct that "its happening and going to happen anyway" there is a point to be made about *accelerating* that AND also the question of who benefits from these changes in automation. Cuz under our current organization of the economy, automation is used as a cudgel to hurt working people, when it could & should be used as a way to benefit and enrich the lives of everyone.
@@frenkzors I'm not so sure I agree that there is some plot to cudgel working people. That smells a bit of conspiracy rhetoric. I won't deny that many jobs are threatened by automation but it's also always worth remembering that cost for goods (especially basic things like household items, food, etc) are vastly cheaper on the whole than at any point in history. Which means the purchasing power of 'normal people' is also higher than ever power. Don't misconstrue that I'm saying there's some guaranteed net gain of someone losing their job through automation. And obviously on a personal level that's always a brutal pill to swallow. Simply saying that it's never so simple that automation cuts one way
Voiceverse claims that purchasers have 100% ownership of their purchase, but also state that the voice actors will receive royalty payments. Royalty payments are payed to the owners of an asset, contradicting the 100% ownership claim. To further complicate matters they are selling access to a service under the guise of an NFT, likely either because it is a trending buzz word or a legally murky area. NFTs are by design commodities not services, intended to be resold by the original purchaser at some point. How Voiceverse will remain funded throughout its lifespan with this market model is incredibly questionable. A subscription based software license or something similar is more sustainable. Personally the whole thing screams scam, though hopefully for all involved it's just a marketing team obsessed with NFTs and no clue as to the damage they have incurred.
Austin -- you can't let the people on Twitter reacting with threats or harassment colour your view of the criticism in general. The majority of the responses I saw to Troy's tweet were not people arguing in bad faith. You have to keep in mind that the NFT debate has been going on for a long time at this point, and many people have already done their research, have had dialogues and are firm in their opinion about this. There really isn't a 'both sides' to NFT's right now. We have the facts. There is currently zero beneficial element to the technology, on top of it being incredibly bad for the environment.
"Austin -- you can't let the people on Twitter reacting with threats or harassment colour your view of the criticism in general." I don't, at least not intentionally. I'm extremely pro-criticism, insofar as debates are essentially *always* worth having. But I can't imagine that the "majority," as you say, of replies were not bad faith. They were more or less "lulz bro, what a tool." And this is why I said in the podcast I understand it makes me look naive about twitter... I mean, what should I expect? I still don't like it, but I suppose it's on me to get over that (or better yet, use twitter less!). But when you say "You have to keep in mind that the NFT debate has been going on for a long time at this point, and many people have already done their research, have had dialogues and are firm in their opinion about this. There really isn't a 'both sides' to NFT's right now. We have the facts." that makes it sound like debate is now invalid. How many subjects could we say that for? Vegans would say the same thing. There is no more debate to be had, and all non-Vegans are immoral. Environmentalists often say the same re: nuclear power. The Amish say the same re: smart phones! These are "settled" moral questions in their minds. But are they? Is a debate over simply because you've hashed it out more than someone new to the discussion? I'm sympathetic to the idea that it's frustrating to passionately invest in an issue, only to have someone new walk in, not do their homework, and start spouting facts. But it's also a fact of life that we're all at different spots along the spectrum of information, and therefore debate is *always* worth it. At least IMO. But I'm a guy who likes watching debates on youtube between Evolutionary Biologists and Young Earth Creationists, and I mean if ever ANY subject was supposedly settled, it'd be that one right?
@@awintory “But I can't imagine that the "majority," as you say, of replies were not bad faith. They were more or less "lulz bro, what a tool."” Troll comments like this don’t really fit the common usage of ‘bad faith’ as far as I’ve ever seen it used, but fair -- I wouldn’t doubt that the majority of responses were insults like this. I’m probably just conditioned to gloss over stuff like that. “But it's also a fact of life that we're all at different spots along the spectrum of information, and therefore debate is always worth it.” I think the nature of the internet has damaged this idea, at least for me. It’s one thing to have this mentality in your everyday life (and I would absolutely discuss the situation with NFT’s from the ground up with a coworker or friend, for example), but I don’t think you can approach things in the same way online. Social media isn’t built for it, and at a certain point, you have to assume that people would have done their due diligence before speaking on something. To bring it back to the situation with Troy - I don’t think it’s unfair for people to have assumed that he surely would have done his research on NFT’s before getting into business and putting his name behind them? That doesn’t excuse any of the extremes to be clear, but I think it does justify people starting the conversation from that position. "…that makes it sound like debate is now invalid. How many subjects could we say that for?" How many hot button debates are fact-based these days, though? As opposed to many of your examples, this is a situation where you really can just look at the raw facts of the technology and see that there isn’t much of a debate to be had. I have no issue with discussing future possibilities of NFT’s, but they are (currently) a solution to a problem that does not exist. People keep trying to find the problem, but so far literally none of the proposed ideas could only be done with this technology. OR, the ideas are so grand and unrealistic that it’s clearly either coming from a place of ignorance or self-interest. And again -- while we patiently wait for someone to find a justification for NFT’s to exist, they’re heavily contributing to the climate crisis. I know there’s plenty of things I participate in that contribute to this as well, but it’s NFT’s current lack of utility that makes them particularly hard to stomach with this in mind.
It's just kinda weird to me that Troy jumped on the first Company that offered him a Service like that, a Service that is occording to him helping everyone. I would have atleast check out the market in that Space(?) Like you wouldn't join the first Creator Network that emails you. Especially with a Team like he has they could have easily found Alternatives without the NFT integration and if they actually did some Research in the Weeks they had conversations they for sure would have found out what People on Twitter found out in 5 mins. on how untrustworthy that Company was/is.
When you're excited and passionate about something, it's very easy to tunnel-vision a bit and just want to try and take that next step into something real. The response to the tweet was the wake-up call that meant revising the execution.
I love that before the tweet he watched Peacemaker. A show about a tone deaf character who sees people as bad or good. Haters or creaters. Not the best inspiration for bringing people together. Especially for NFTs
Oh that's fascinating. People really underestimate how powerful the stories we tell can be. Especially ironic when those people are themselves storytellers.
Character is often defined in how we respond when people call us out for our mistakes. Good on Troy for remaining calm and taking feedback. I think some marketing people see how much NFTs are "trending" and think using that term will help their product, but how they are used in gaming is overwhelmingly negative and informed gamers will not respond well to any new "NFT" product.
So I listened to the podcast twice before looking at their website, and... it feels like the project couldn't be further away from what Troy thinks it is. It's NFTs from cover to cover, with no explanation of what they'll be creating or using in order to achieve this. You know what a real AI voice generation project doesn't have? A bizarre backstory about Ethyears and Centums and how mysterious they are and ooOoOo look at how scarce these things are, and how you'll be missing out if you don't get in now. If Troy wants to contribute to real AI voice generation to aid smaller studios, there are plenty of real projects out there that have ZERO NFT NONSENSE. Murf and Resemble (both .ai domains) are just two examples of companies trying to achieve this. I don't know anything about them beyond their purpose, so they may also be terrible companies behind the scenes, but... at least their obvious purpose is to create convincing AI generated voices for all kinds of commercial purposes. Troy could contribute voice data to train voices on these platforms. Come on, Troy. Did you just close your eyes, plug your ears, and take the paycheck on this?
not only that but the company he signed on with has already been caught stealing ai voices from other websites and changing them just enough that they aren’t exactly the same, even if people didn’t revile NFT’s this company would still be garbage.
NFT Art Theft is the reason why this is a bad idea. The NFT sales pitch is for artists to earn from their works, but in reality it has de-evolved to be the actual opposite as NFTs have caused a significant rise in piracy and theft of digital artwork (and mostly for fraudulent profit) that is hurting creators. So many projects are essentially asset flips full of plagiarised and copyrighted stolen artwork. And when the NFT creator, disappears with all the money, the artwork creator suddenly gets spammed by people saying “your NFT ripped us off” despite having nothing to do with the scam, their name was used illegally on it. So many artists have been victimns of this lie, some really high profile digital, comic and hollywood artists have been victimns... its not helping them, the artists are being robbed. A voice NFT... will just lead to voice artists being robbed.
Art theft existed before NFT's doh and the blatant thefts are being pulled from market places something that doesn't happen on traditional DTG market places without hiring IP protection!
@@sprocket-YT Yes theft has existed since the dawn of time, but as I said "NFTs have caused a significant rise in piracy and theft of digital artwork" most recently. There are some pretty henious reports of some of how artists are being ripped off, but its also the reputational damage and stress its causing artists to have their name being used to sell scams.
@@boxhead6177 A voice NFT... will just lead to voice artists being robbed..... last time I checked you can't save a JPEG of someones voice! lets get real DTG art theft is bigger than NFT's yet it's been totally ignored by gamers odd that!
@@sprocket-YT ??? An NFT is a token that is attached to an electronic file or physical item (similar to a bardcode), it can be any file format including a sound file.
@@boxhead6177 So a mp3/wav sound recording of them saying one thing! literally you are clutching at straws the fact gamers are getting outraged at this is plain embarrassing.
Wouldn't this technology make it harder for new voice actors to get into the industry? Devs could easily choose the cheaper option of using Troy's samples or other famous voice actor instead of risking giving the job to a new talent. It feels weird.
Yep 100%. Troy seemed to be completely missing this point. He argued something along the line of "companies would want to cut big name expensive actors like me, not smaller voice actors" but in reality that isn't how it would go down, and I don't understand how he could be so oblivious. If a company can get an AI version of Troy Baker for the same price or less than some newbie voice actor, why wouldn't they? They benefit from the name recognition and don't have to pay the full price.
I just wanna say, Alanah is just such a great person. Just the careful gentle effort she puts into explaining the video game industry and everything connected to do it. How she takes careful seconds to decide the exact words she wants to use to clearly explain the complexities. Honestly inspired me to slow down and choose more honest words in my day to day conversations.
I’ve actually noticed that he is very good at taking criticism personally. Like if you said “I didn’t like troys performance in the last of us 2” I think he’d handle that well. But if you say “I didn’t like the last of us 2” he gets very defensive. It’s like you can criticize him, but not the thing he worked on and I find that mentality very strange. But I think he’s said before that when people criticize the game as a whole he feels like it’s attacking all his friends who worked on it too
@@JormungandrTheWorldSerpent I think he’s just protective over the team. He has a relationship with Naughty Dog, knows a lot of the people that work there and sees how hard they work. It’s like a family to him, you can say whatever you want to him but don’t talk about his family. I’m not saying it’s right but in a roundabout way it’s actually kind of sweet that he cares.
Oh I loved this episode. Alanah was nothing but a great friend. Honest, calling a friend out on his shit. But still being very respectful. Loved that so much!
I just have a little push back on a company who wants Troy in their project but can't afford him. My issue with that statment is, if this technology moves forward and becomes a thing then up-and-comers won't have the opportunities to "make it" in the industry because the company can just use one of Troy's many voices instead of this new person who now can't show the world their talents and what they can bring.(edit) I posted this before the conversation at 39:00
Also, if you think he suddenly got really into financial planning just ever so randomly at this time and decided to just set up his whole financial profile with retirement and his kid and whatever else, I have a timeshare to sell you. This man was expecting a WINDFALL from this deal. In the exact same way that lottery winner are told the very first thing they should do is get a financial planner before even claiming the money, because its actually really difficult to manage a large sum of money effectively. He's just trying to talk really fast because he hopes you won't think too hard about how its pretty weird that, totallly unprompted lol, he felt the need to set up his entire financial life right as he was set to recieve an undisclosed amount of money. And the fact that he said a flat out "No" to the question about any of his motivation being related to money just tells it had ALOT to do with the money and it was also a lot of it. Like anyone would fault him for being slightly motivated by money, we literally all are to some degree. But yeah, thanks rich white man, please tell me again how important it is to save for retirement. Since we know you'll never have to struggle to achieve it by the pure fact that you had the luxury of not worrying about it until you had enough interest in it, I really value your perspective on it 😀 it just occured to you that you should get around to do it and you had enough money to just do it right then. But please keep telling me how important my pennies are, I dont feel talked down to at all by someone who will never struggle to do the thing in question 😀😀😀
You've always said that the heart of this show is four friends who can have a respectful conversation while vehemently disagreeing with each other and this week you proved it. Great job and I hope Troy's ok. We've all got something we'd lke to get a mulligan for.
About 5-10 mins in btw: Troy, this is less about how it hurts or doesn’t hurt YOU, and more about how it hurts MORE. Sure it may not harm YOU and your career and financial well being in the long run, but that speaks for only you. I promise there are PLENTY of other VAs out there who WOULD MUCH RATHER not have their voices used just whenever however, taking the need for their work entirely outta the picture, therefore making their hands on work irrelevant. Why endorse a thing that’s so clearly harmful to your own industry as a whole? When your AGENT even says so, and you don’t listen cuz YOU’RE blinded by your own passion, a passion this company does NOT give a damn about and has no intention to work towards, why? Put my name on this cuz I hope this does this, even though it’s ENTIRELY out of my own control as a whole, why??? You’re so much smarter than that Troy, you are.
So, I've taken some time today to think about this whole thing. I hope the 4 hosts read this - but I know there will be thousands of comments. After reading the Twitter storm and watching this video, the first thing that keeps coming to my brain is: I really wish Troy did not do this in the first place. He's the most popular, well-paid, and in-demand actor in the industry. I'm having a hard time believing he is this ignorant about the harm of NFTs. If he is knowledgeable on NFTs and chose this partnership anyway, that is even more hurtful and dissappointing. Neither of those rationalizations sit well with me. They're both bad. The second thought my brain goes to is: Well, it happened. So where does this go? My initial hope is that it will lead to a redaction of the partnership. Im not mad about his tweet. Im sad that he is doing this. Troy, I really want you to take your friends' advice and not do this. Find another way, man. Take Mike up on his offer. You're the biggest name in the business. You have a huge platform to enact change and advance the industry. Thanks for reading.
Look if Troy want to do nft let him, don’t force him to change his mind about it. And look im on nobody sides, if someone want to Join a bad Company let them support their decision, if they don’t want to join a bad company then support their decision.
Genuinely appreciate the conversation, the different sides of this, and the direct dialog (confronting a friend can be hard, honestly). I don't think Troy is a bad person, not saying he's perfect either. You all have built a great platform.
@@ScooterManCR did he make it or is he just being paid for work? If it is not his it means no money going out and money coming in aka PROFIT! if he had to put money out then that means there is a chance of no profit!
Glad you guys discussed this. Appreciate your integrity in holding your stance, even with Troy being your friend. NFT’s are not just dumb, they’re a slippery slope to disaster.
Troy saying that a company will fire the most expensive people in hard times feel really disconnected from the corporate reality. Corpos will carve out every low level position they can before they even consider the top brass.
Austin Wintory's comparable example to what Troy wants to do for those indie game developers who don't have a budget to use Troy's voice. I appreciate this episode and greatly appreciated the differing opinions. Subbed!
I respect that Troy is holding his hands up for what was an incredibly stupid tweet. I also respect that he says he's going to learn from this. However, during this discussion, all I could think was, he had conversations for WEEKS with this company and somehow learned nothing about NFTs and the general negative reaction around them (or even, apparently, that they were an NFT company despite them calling themselves VoiceVerse NFT). I do actually believe when he says that this wasn't some get rich quick scheme for him, but that part made him sound woefully naive when it comes to who he associates his name with. And for someone with his level of success and fame, I find that baffling. Sure, he's learned it's a bad idea NOW, but perhaps it would have been wiser to look into all this BEFORE attaching his name to it.
I think that's the main issue for a lot of these people who get into NFTs. They see this as something that can benefit them but not realize the side effects due to lack of knowledge or research, which makes it worse on them. I'm all for education and discussion but I think the company he's working with were not transparent with him about the NFT side of it. We can't be for sure of why that is but now Troy needs to be more aware the next time something like this comes up. He really should have done more research on this. It would have saved him a lot of backlash. Hopefully he learned from this and not do this again.
THIS SHOW NO LONGER LIVES ON THIS CHANNEL! All future episodes will be on www.youtube.com/@playwatchlisten, and all previous episodes are unlisted in a playlist on this channel.
That an artwork looks "NFT in style" is now the worst insult an artist can receive.
NFTs can be anything so artwork can't look "NFT in style".
No the worse insult an artist can receive, is to find out someone stole their artwork and created an NFT out of it without their permission.
@@Optamizm that doesn't mean that people don't immediately think of computer-generated cartoon apes with sunglasses.
@@SolarAdrift that's the fault of the thinker, not NFTs.
@@Optamizm Man, Rodin really screwed up
I honestly feel like your brutally honest stance against NFTs is really needed and don’t be discouraged ever to not keep speaking up about it especially because so many people are pushing into mainstream and scamming people. Always appreciate these convos ❤️
❤️
Nice PFP that was a sick ass album 👌🏾
@@charalanahzard My thoughts exactly. I don't know enough about the topic to make any type of judgement of whether you are correct. I look forward to watching more vids to find out. That said, seeing you be very firm about your opinion makes me happy!
It really sounds like Troy should have had this conversation before publicly endorsing a company that did not exist 12 months ago. The thing where Mike points out that NFT companies "rarely do" have a long term plan feels like it should have been an enormous, huge red flag.
I agree, like, I just think Troy is a little, pretentious, which there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I consider myself pretentious at times. I think Troy's heart was in the right place, that he genuinely wants to help artists, but he's just a little misinformed about NFTs
@@RDR911 that’s the problem with the level of success and fame Troy has reached, he’s a bit delusional nowadays… they way he talks, acts, reacts etc… it’s like he sees himself as the Steve Jobs of the video game world if you will. It’s very bizarre how he’s turned out, he’s just a very weird guy that drinks his own koolaid way too much.
@@RDR911 You'd think he would considering he thinks of himself as a 'scientist'
Props to Alanah for handling this conversation really professionally. She defused the situation while maintaining a firm stance.
@@amybruh3443 why?
This episode is basically "Troy, we need to talk".
Troy Baker, I've come to bargain!
Troy dont need to speak ... he needs to STFU
I’m really disappointed by Troy, such a talented guy who made such a huge impact in the video game industry, and in some of my favorite titles, doing this dumb ploy. Really sucks
@@aquano1972 Talented who were about to lose VA job (which were about to happen before voiceverse) because of industry. More info at 0:40:20
@@myswiftracecar oof
I think the key thing that Austin and Troy may not be aware of is the absolute *fatigue* that already exists in the NFT conversation. A lot of us are no longer interested in a "dialogue" or a "conversation" about NFTs anymore. Alanah touched on this but a lot of us have already had the dialogue and the conversations, we've learned about the technology, and we've found 95% of the defense to be frustrating, misleading, toxic, and abusive.
If I see someone I like selling NFTs, I'm going to express displeasure, unfollow, and move on, because I don't have the energy or the responsibility to convince everyone otherwise.
I don't know any of you, but from what I know of you, Mike and Alanah are both people I have a tremendous amount of faith in to be able to explain where the technology and the conversation is at, and I wish you the best Troy. Thanks for letting us hear this conversation.
Yeah if Troy is really willing to listen I think they shouldn't have a hard time explaining to him that the problem was NFT's
Maybe he can team up with the people those NFT guys stole from
Lol, seems everyone is quick to be "fatigued" by everything and everyone these days...
@@alalalala57 Everything is constantly happening all the time, dude. If the conversation is to be had it's because we're being made aware of it on an unprecedented level but it's one of dozens of conversations on the table right now and more than half of them seem like they're just more bad news. Stress adds up and does not make distinctions.
@@alalalala57 It's quick to you, because the problem didn't effect you or you weren't in whatever circles that were affected. The conversation is happening for you for the first time, it is happening for the person telling you about what's wrong for the 50,000th time.
for a funny parallel, it's like those people who get all into para-social relationships and then get mad when a famous person doesn't react well to their "totally funny joke"
to the person making the joke, it's a totally unique and funny thing to say, to the famous person it's having to deal with explaining why something is inappropriate for the 1,00th time in a day.
@@alalalala57 As a game artist, I have now spent just about a full year discussing and explaining NFTs (along with all the damaging ramifications thereof) to people almost every single day, and often 20x a day. Fatigued is right. This isn't quick or new - it's pervasive, annoying, detrimental and tiring.
I just love Alanah's honesty for hate against NFTs, but also being respectful and responsible great show!
This podcast has taught me more about communicating (especially with people with conflicting ideas) effectively than anything else I've come across. Always informative and always enjoyable. Love you all.
Thank you ❤️
@@charalanahzard this comment and my agreement with it make me wish Jason Schrier and Troy can sit down and hash out whatever shit that was that trended that day as well. I just feel like they're having miscommunication and that makes me sad.
@@sincerlyeric6585 Not to throw shade, as that's not normally my thing, but personally I think ever since his first book came out, Jason has become more and more like the end of Troy's tweet taken in a literal sense. That dude hands out blocks to criticism like beads on Mardi Gras. His work has been phenomenally important to the industry so it's been rough to watch.
@@sincerlyeric6585 Im not sure when that will be possible, as Jason seems more content to dunk on people than have conversations. Similar to Troy's mistake here, if you come out of the gate on attack mode, you've closed the door on discourse before it can even begin... and Jason, talented though he may be, has certainly mastered that craft.
@@RobbyGood1 yeah which I suppose you could angle this that my comment is more directed at him than Troy. But that seems besides the overall point.
Which. Is that this video is refreshing and more people should have candid conversations with thier friends. Not all have to be public displays. But it is refreshing to see.
Was both looking forward to and dreading this episode.. the thing that surprises me is Troy’s supposed “ignorance” towards the whole NFT thing but the assertiveness he exhibited when tweeting about it..
He was assertive about the inevitable future of the VO tech, he was thinking about the hate some actors would have rather than the broader NFT picture.
It's not surprising considering how heavily the nft market relies on Ponzi and pyramid scheme strategies, using big buzz words to reel greedy people in and slowly convincing them that this is *the next big thing* and the people who will be against it just don't want to see them succeed and avoiding carefully the difficult questions while coming off as confident and prepared until some naive dude falls for it and starts repeating what they were taught and the cycle continues,, he knew nothing of substance going into it and was trusting enough to be tricked, not that that's an excuse as he is a grown ass man and the internet is free
@@rontheron4807 I just think Troy is a little, pretentious, which there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I consider myself pretentious. I think Troy's heart was in the right place, that he genuinely wants to help artists, but he's just a little misinformed about NFTs
@@eighthlegofthephantomtroup1842 a little? He’s mastered the art portraying himself as the cocky, pretentious, arrogant hippie actor. He seems like a nice guy in every day life, but his “persona” that he portrays on camera or on social media really rubs people the wrong way.
Discussions, disagreements, and criticisms are all totally fine/frankly welcomed, but I will remove any comments that are personal attacks (specifically name-calling), mentions of Troy’s family, or threats. Fuck the fuck off with that.
People who have disagreements is a perfectly fine and normal thing, it's also healthy because as a learning process, disagreements can lead to realisations and learning from one's mistakes.
Personal attacks, threats and harassment not only cultivate further division and even resentment that can drive people on the receiving end of it to further radicalisation about one's own decisions and beliefs but is also extremely disgusting and totally unwarranted.
If your first reaction to anything in life is personally attack and harass people who you disagree with, there's something seriously wrong with you and you do nothing to actually help people around you, you just have zero idea how to be an adult and are an errant child running around screaming their heads off.
If people actually had meaningful discussions, listened and spoke like adults to one another instead of grabbing pitchforks and torches and essentially using mob mentality to try and ruin people's lives, we would actually be making progress and helping people who have made mistakes to change for the better and learn from them.
Going after people doesn't equate to justice nor does it change people or better them. Violence solves nothing, threats solves nothing, harassment solves nothing. Being an intellectual and criticising maturely and being reasonable in talking to them is what gets you somewhere and opens up paths to solving something.
It's the pathetic, idiotic noise of the internet's worst tendancies that drowns out all sense of logic and rationality and is a real cancer.
🤍
I challenge this stance by saying I love Troy's family!
@@awintory how has this not been removed yet? Oh wait. I can remove it myself. 😂
@@awintory I thought this was just some rando at first and went "Uhh... that's unnecessary." But you're allowed lol.
@39:50 is a very privileged take, saying that you better find a new job if you worry that missing one paycheck will make you miss your rent. A *lot* of people, myself included, live this way, and it's not as easy as just finding another job. These kinds of changes to industries can have massive impacts on people living paycheck to paycheck, and those people are right to be concerned when the benefit is most clearly for those who already have financial security.
Its called being a responsible adult... lol
If you cant do those things then its clear you think in a manner that is not different from an irresponsible child.. that is in a previledge in it self.
Covid has done serious damage to the job market too. Everyone is looking and it’s overwhelming people hiring.
Yep, that statement made me very unhappy. Absolutely no perspective on how many people live paycheck to paycheck, and kind of an implication that it's their *choice* to do so. There was also the earlier assertion that everyone needs to be putting money towards retirement. Some people really don't even grasp the fact that quite a lot of folks have negative money, do they?
If everyone did that that means noone would be working at any minimum wage job. That's not how society can function.
@@deantjewie that is absolutely wrong... society has and can function without minimal wage.. it was invented because of racism. Lol let me explain before you get upset.
The premise that you cant hire people that was willing to work for less which at that time mostly black people.
Mininum wage indirectly made black people poorer.
Some would say, because of children working that is why mininum wage was invented, but child labor law is could easly be seperate and is.. just made under one huge bill at its first conception.
we still have records of kids making their case that they was happy working than going to school and sitting bored and not understanding anything in class...
You can also make the argument what about mining and factories... its much much safer in factories and children dont have to take jobs working in mines. Those was mostly adopted/orphans being taken advantage of.. it say more about the individual using children than the jobs that just wanted workers.
Individuals could had easily stop that by caring more.
Same with the union. But it was invented on racist pretense. Most people dont like competition.
just some white people that wanted secure their position on being paid more and only. Dont believe me? Whites are trying to set up a union in africa. Africa is nothing special, but....
why do you need a union in africa? Lol
Competition is enough for competitive labor in the work force.
Unions i think is only necesssary in one entity organization like american football for example.
Children that did work before mininum wage was able to help provide for their family, they actually contributed in their family household and the government/ states took that away on false pretense and the great depression which feds caused in america at that time(cant forget that) or you can say liberal ideas(morally good ideas that made society worse).
I think Alanah perfectly understood the situation here. I like to believe that most people are well intentioned even when they do something that seems otherwise. But the "hate or create" part of this was just really hard to look past. I can understand where Austin, knowing Troy, might not have had trouble seeing this as anything other than the light hearted ending that Troy thought it was. But I'm glad Alanah was able to see it more from another perspective. It came off as aggressive to any possible criticism. And as someone who knows very little about Troy, one of the only things I have heard about him, is instances of him being antagonistic towards games criticism. The hate or create tag here is a sentiment I've seen him express before. So it was really hard not to see it that way. I'm just glad he's listening
THIS is how adults and friends disagree with each other while supporting one another. It's also how someone with an open mind takes on feedback and values it. Respect to everyone for this.
What you guys have done here today is what I wish would happen more in general. You took a serious topic, especially for one of your friends, and had a civil, open-minded discussion. Kudos to every single one of you, especially Troy.
I mean the credit rests mostly on Troy for that; alot of people in his situation would have gotten defensive or taken Austin's method of complaining about "bad faith replies"
And if Troy had done that it shouldn't be civil
I agree. I thought for sure that this conversation was going to be quite uncomfortable, but they all handled it well.
@@mitchellhorton9382 I felt for Austin in this video. I think he was struggling with the urge to defend his friend and I'm glad Troy corrected him at one point when Austin was being too generous with his take.
Why can't this be something like buying 3-D assets for a blender or game engine etc? Wouldn't that help devs more? Does it really need to be tied with nfts?
You are 100% right
Well as far as bigger, publicly traded companies, not necessarily since they are trying to appeal to shareholders rather than the nft sale being the point in and of itself
Because money. The company doesn't care about creators (Troy does, but the non specific company doesn't)
@@Conrock1296 yep Troy is a good person. His intentions were genuine, he just choosed the wrong method.
Because the Crypto-bros have infiltrated the higher executive ranks of these major companies.
Ubisoft, Square Enix, Sega, Konami, RUclips Gaming, Twitch, Discord... even eSports teams have some NFT bro who wants to use their day job to make NFT $$$$$$
Every new start up in silicon valley probably has a question or line item in their pitch about Blockchain at this point.
This podcast turned out far better than I would have hoped given how it started. Thanks for doing this so quickly.
It's called DAMAGE CONTROL
@@thepadster123 or a grown up discussion
I literally just watched the earlier episode where you guys (Troy was absent) had a discussion on NFTs. Then the Troy new dropped, and suddenly this episode came up. What a day.
Same. I missed that episode and was just listening when Troy tweeted. Weird.
Huge fan of all you do, Alanah. Such a class act of holding a difficult discussion with your friends while still sticking to your convictions. Thanks for existing!
NFT’s are like a more environmentally destructive Beanie Babies
Omg 😂
Ubisoft's NFTs aren't environmentally destructive.
@@Optamizm It was a joke.
@@Optamizm yes, because no one's buying them
@@Screlz yeah, but your joke is also wrong.
This episode was a bit tense, but I really admire the respect you give one another, I want all conversations to be as honest as PWL ❤️
Agreed
Troy baker does not deserve respect though lol.
I literally only learned about the tweet and the backlash earlier today so color me surprised to see a whole podcast about it. I am thankful for the introduction, Alanah, because had I not seen this mentioned in a video earlier today I would’ve been completely lost.
To be fair, it all happened today.
@@charalanahzard 🤣🤣🤣 and that right there, is the real comedy gold.
Goes to show how people feel about NFTs that it blew up that quick.
Yeah me too. I haven't been able to log into twitter in a long while and just haven't bothered to resolve it. So, I had no idea about this. Glad she framed it so I could be more engaged and kind of learn stuff about the situation. Really haven't known anything about NFT's till this podcast started talking about it.
troy has a talent of talking a lot but not actually saying anything, its impressive lol
Just likes to hear himself talk and especially cause he’s on camera. Cocky asf ha
@@KarpeNoctem He did. You just didn't listen: 35:22
Lots of actors fall into that trap
@@KarpeNoctem Good apology!
@@KarpeNoctem saying "I apologise" isn't saying you're sorry, saying sorry directly is.
Oh this is gonna be a fun one in the comments, godspeed and good luck
It's going to be a fucking fiesta down here in a little bit lmao
Gonna need more popcorn
@@Javi_216 And tissues' ?
This episode was a fantastic example of how to have challenging conversations amongst friends, and was genuinely touching to watch. You all have had differing opinions/ views in the past on topics ranging from the silly to the serious, that in hindsight served as practice runs for this type of event. True friendship is built on these good habits, and so is true progress. It was very refreshing to see that on display.
I felt the friendship here. Solid discussion and much appreciated.
*Timestamps!*
Starting out with future Alanah's explanation of the situation, and Troy's tweet
1:38 The disclaimer / Alanah and her history of speaking out against NFT's, and Bithell's take / Troy on being responsible
5:16 Mike on what said tweet mirrors in regards to others supporting NFT's "crypto bros", and Troy on taking criticism / Troy's intentions
7:45 Alanah's thoughts on the tweet, and what exactly is Voiceverse? (9:45 follow-up question)
10:20 Troy working towards a solution that's bettering
12:08 On the tech itself, and a very Bithell disclaimer / Technology and ethics / No part of Troy's interest in this was profit? (13:40)
16:18 Austin joins / Troy on one of the things he's learned, about Twitter and conversation, and reactions (Leave the man's family out of it)
20:42 Mike's not particularly spicy rant, and it's a Fanta night (more of Mike's thoughts on NFT's) / Aren't jpegs hosted on a server that still has the ability to go down?
25:15 Alanah's point on if companies end support, and Bithell's follow-up / Austin on possible consumer protection, and his thoughts on the reaction to the tweet
29:30 More on the end of the tweet and different interpretations / Austin on what he won't empathize with, and Alanah breaks down the choice of phrasing of the tweet (and Austin's response) / By tweeting you are asking for opinions
32:43 Troy puts it all into perspective, and the clear distinction / Story on becoming more optimistic, his changes and what he's learned / His tweet is not actually intended to be in support of NFT's? (35:49)
36:18 Austin's thoughts on the intent, and the similarities to the Tina Guo sample library / Do modern musicians dislike sampling? (with possibly taking away jobs from musicians) And do voice actors have similar concerns?
40:50 Thoughts on if everyone's jobs are at risk of such automation / Bad faith takes, and more on the responses
45:01 Alanah's takeaway on the bad faith aspect, and some of what Austin saw (and his joke response) / Mike on when opinions really can suck
48:54 Troy and the feather floating around the topic, and how it impacts him / Encouraging civil and informed conversation
51:25 Mike's personal mission to help Troy, and the way things could be done / Troy's message to us
53:30 What does Troy know now about NFT's? / Alanah and the future of talking about NFT's post Troy tweet, reaffirming her stance on them, and the blockchain
56:42 What are good ways to move the conversation forward? / Possible positive outcomes from Troy's tweet, and to change the facts / Appreciation for this podcast
1:00:28 Austin's favorite reactions to the podcast (and fucking NICE, Bithell) / Appreciation all around!
1:01:47 Alanah intros/outros the show whilst pointing in mostly the right directions, and gets one last shot in at Troy 😂
And that's it! And a thank you to Scott for the assistance lol. See you all at the next! 👍
On a closing/side note (not really believing in NFT's myself, for the record) : I share the sentiment Austin brought up about keeping things civil and chill amongst friends, like you all do. It means alot and is one of my (usually not mentioned) favorite things of the show. Willing to disagree but always respectfully, and moving the conversation forward. Something to learn from, no doubt
Thanks once again. To the top with him bois ☝
@@hokuhikene Lol doing what I can. Thank you for that 👍
Let's go Jared!
Thanks so much for this. Not sure if it’s something that you do regularly with their podcasts but if so, I’ll definitely look out for you in the comments. Thank you for helping to organize their conversation in a way that’s easier to reference later when sharing bits with people that won’t sit down and watch/listen for a full hour.
@@MrJagermeister You're very welcome! And thank you, I do my best! Also, yeah, I do these for each episode! 😄
I appreciate the update at the start that this podcast was recorded before more information was available. And I really appreciate all of you having having a completely candid and civil conversation about an uncomfortable subject. I highly respect all of you for that.
*Edit (After finishing the podcast)*:
As someone who only knows Troy as a fan of his work and from the way he comes across in interviews or from interactions on Retro Replay or other podcasts I think I have some idea of who he is. Obviously I don't know him in person so I can just make assumptions. So when I read the tweet in question I want to say I had a similar theme in mind of what the rest of the group was describing. That he didn't mean to come across as polarizing as he did. But Alanah hit the nail on the head in the beginning. The jargon that was used was very NFT bro culture-esque and that definitely made the situation worse than it could have been. So I am glad that this was part of the conversation.
I truly get the desire to help creators and that is a noble cause and I am happy Mike brought up that there are other and better ways to go about that. Ways that don't have this negativity attached to them and are more sincere in their application. I truly despise the methods and greed that companies and individuals display when it comes to NFTs. It is so clearly a try to get rich quick scheme that I hope situations like today educate more and more people about the issues NFTs bring and don't let as many people fall for the scam they are.
Last but not least thank you Troy for being part of the conversation.
He has one of the most fragile egos in the business. He literally created a petition to remove a negative review of Uncharted 4 from Metacritic. He also has a superiority complex where he acts as though he's untouchable on the sets he works. Most of the women he has worked with come out saying how "creepy" he comes across.
@@gfear24 I wonder based on what basis you wrote the last sentence? I've never heard from any of his costars that he's 'creepy' to work with. In fact, I've heard the opposite
@@ielinDaisy
Yea, makes his whole comment sound like baseless allegations.
@@gfear24 When it comes to fragile egos, he's basically admitted that he's exhibited that in the past, and is working on it. Evidence shows that to be the case. I find him kind of a goober sometimes, like here, but he does seem like a person who is consciously working on his own evolution.
Those are some inflammatory accusations in your final sentence, and I've heard nothing like that, so unless you have evidence to back them up you should think twice before you hurl those down.
@@Lurklen I agree, The "Creepy" accusations are baseless and weird to add, But the rest of the comment is true. I was a fan of troy for a very long time and stopped a few years back because of the person he is. He's only sorry now cause there was backlash. I'm 100% positive if there was none, He would've went full force with it. He even contradicts himself with this whole NFT thing about getting rich quick. Also he's well into his 40's, He's not some 20 year old upstart VA who needs to grow and learn, He knew full well what he was doing. This is 100% damage control.
Kudos all for the conversation, let's hope it continues because Troy still has massive blindspots, sounds very naive and is using very spurious arguments to defend himself. He's been talking to them for weeks but has so little detail on it, clearly not done anywhere near enough due diligence. A lot of ppl are genuinely tired of the NFT convo as it's been had so many times already.
I think the potential effect on the VO market is a problem worth more discussion. It got a bit breezed over in this podcast but it does feel like Troy (whether he means too or not) is pulling up the ladder behind him, making it a lot harder for 'entry level' VO artists whilst he trades off his industry position to make more money for less actual work (i.e. not recording lines, just letting the algorithm create it). I think it still needs to be proven that this tech (especially w/ troy's voice) isn't going to be automating jobs that less-known/experienced VOs could have done.
And I did cringe when he said 'this is not about making money for me' then 30 secs later said 'i'm hustling man, i need to make sure my son is provided for'. Nothing wrong with looking after your family but it does make it sound like you're doing whatever you can to make as much money as you can now. Just saying 'it's going in the bank for my son' doesn't absolve a get rich quick scheme, especially if it's also awful for the environment and possibly for your own industry.
I also immediately noticed the contradiction of "I'm not doing it for money" and "I'm doing it for money for my kid"
Oh this is gonna be interesting
PS: Right clicking and saving NFTs is morally correct
I think its morally incorrect in a lot of cases cause the NFT may of been stolen artwork.
A lot of high profile artists have reported their artwork has been stolen by crypto NFT scams
Morally if you can identify the artwork, report it to the artist that their work is being used without their permission.
"You wouldn't right click a car!"
I mean, stupid but morally correct.
@@Cotsos88 I mean, you probably _shouldn't_ right click a car, even if you can. Someone worked hard making that car, the least you could do is pay them for their work.
Well actually I suppose the least you could do is just take it without paying :p but you get my point.
Admitting to being a thief.
It always feels really shitty when a rich person living up high tells folks that are worried about losing work are loving above their means
Living*
Yeah all of Troy's takes that frustrate me the most are when he's blind to his privilege. At least he surrounds himself with friends who call him on it.
@@colli_ yeah for me its Austin and Troy both when it comes to their privilege.
@@colli_ I didn't know that he was born a voice actor and didn't have to work for years to get to where he is.
@@colli_ he worked for what he has. Learn what privilege means.
Having watched the podcast now, it sounds like Troy really didn't/doesn't know anything about NFTs, and tried to partner with the company over some AI tech he found interesting. Glad to hear him acknowledge that the tweet was dumb.
Well yeah he is human he makes mistakes like we all do which is why I love this podcast
Feel like it's on Troy to do the due diligence tho when you're promoting someone like that, and especially since he knows how people feel about NFT's in general
The problem is you can't say you didn't know how divisive it is because of ignorance, when he sums up the tweet saying people who disagree are haters. He was knowingly combating the detractors before he even posted the tweet, cause he knew it was a divisive stance.
@@xXZombieHunter0802Xx
That wasn’t the intention but yea he immediately understood the gravity of the mistake afterwards.
@@MrRobin1997 for real......well said
This podcast is the perfect example of why critical thinking is so important and infectious.
You mean the critical thinking that Troy didn't use before getting involved in this mess? And that is if you are being charitable.
@@anthonynonoya4486 no one manages to think critically 100% of the time. He fucked up and he's accepting that. I'm sure he'd love to have a mulligan and apply some critical thinking before hand but what's done is done. At least he's willing to be told he's wrong and learn from it.
@@colli_ to be honest, I was fairly annoyed with the tweet and frankly don't believe him in this video, it was pure damage control. And not a particularly good example of it.
That being said, this video did pretty much permanently ruin my opinion of him, and it had nothing to do with NFTs.
It was his comment about getting a new job if you are living paycheck to paycheck. It's some judgemental elitist bullshit.
I grew up at or just above the poverty line. And at one point I did live paycheck to paycheck. I found that comment deeply offensive.
@@anthonynonoya4486 tbf it is how you get out of the poverty line. I lived it the first 23 year of my life. Not that I want to side with Troy on anything, but you literally have to work yourself out of it and most of the time that requires the risk of finding a better job. Nothing just improves on its own. That doesn't mean immediately quit the one you have, but it does mean actively trying for anything and everything thats better. If you worked fast food and then got another fast food job, but didn't think for a second to go find a temp agency or a manpower or an action total staffing, then you arent improving your situation, you're just working more hours at the same pay rate. If you have a decent job and the city you live in is expensive af, then you might need to move if you want to improve. Fast food in the middle of nowhere will get you an apartment and pay your bills, in the city it does nothing. Its not elitist if its true. Its what you have to do especially if you dont qualify for assistance or help. Might help more if you weren't taxed to breath basically, but with the way things are now that is the path and yeah it fucking sucks dude. I've had friends pay for a greyhound ticket go to the coast and hustle for jobs. One of my friends said it best, if you ain't climbing you're sinking.
@@anthonynonoya4486 it’s true, honestly the majority of people I know live paycheck to paycheck. We have families and houses but that doesn’t mean life is easy or we can just get a new job. Life isn’t that simple
I wish i had a friend like Mike. The way he told Troy he'd help to make the AI voice thing happen was really heart warming.
I also wish i had a friend like Austin. The level of compassion he shows to others always makes me smile.
Additionally i wish i had a friend like Alanah. Someone insightful and informed who asks questions before assuming intentions. That's rare and awesome.
And i definitely wish i had a friend like Troy. Someone who doesn't attack when people disagree, but also not someone who backs down and runs away. Someone who sincerely wants to listen, learn and discuss why we're disagreeing without any underlying hostility.
You guys rock.
All of this
This is honestly a really interesting perspective on a “controversy”. It’s really unique to hear not only an hour long talk from the person in the midst of it but also having three genuine friends there that are holding him accountable. This is all of course very sad since Troy had good intentions and was just honestly pretty ignorant this time. But it’s also very heartwarming to see how strong all of your guys friendship is.
Cheers to you on seeing the silver-lining of a negative situation. I’ve always wished that the rest of the internet could be more emotionally mature in situations like these.
Look, people are probably going to go into this thinking "Aww, Alanah is just defending her friend" blah blah, but I think you (and Mike) have done a good job in making it clear you think NFTs are dumb, this shouldn't have happened, and you're not for it. Guess what, sometimes people's friends do dumb, stupid things that you don't agree with.
I didn't defend him at any point in this whatsoever.
@@charalanahzard oh I know, I think people will go in to it thinking that's the case, I think I just worded out poorly.
Ah, gotcha. Thank you for the sentiment for sure
@@charalanahzard I was honestly surprised (pleasantly yet sadly) that you would openly tell him that supporting NFT's would actually threaten your friendship
That's what moral principles mean, and it's good to see someone willing to openly stand by them
@@mitchellhorton9382 Absolutely!
So relieved to see that integrity here, as Alanah always displays.
Honestly huge props to everyone for their part here, each position the 4 of them were in required a lot of courage to discuss as they did.
Great discussion between friends sharing their perspectives. Shoutout to everyone involved!
Props to Troy for being open enough to be part of the conversation right after the twitter meltdown. But that's pretty much all I can give him props for. He didn't come off very genuine imo.
1. His manager and some people in his "team" were not sure that his partnership with the company would be a good idea. He still went with it, while not trying to inform himself about the company or NFTs in general. Then he mentions that "information is key/power". It's either just stupid of him, or he is very hypocritical. To be fair, he admitted that his decision wasn't a smart one, so I personally don't think that he was a hypocrite in this case.
2. When Alanah actually went straight to the point by asking him if he did it "for the money", he said no. A minute later, he starts talking about his retirement plan and how he wants to secure a future for his son (which is totally fair and relatable) and that this partnership was just a short-term experiment that he got paid for. So, he insinuates that he didn't do it for the money, because it was short-term? Isn't that the definition of a cash grab - to go in and out. I actually believe him, that he was interested in the technology and the chances it might create for other "creators", but come on...it was obviously ALSO about the money.
3. He (and Austin) seemed a little tone-deaf when it came to the struggles of smaller creators, VAs and so on. Luckily, Mike intervened and highlighted the fact, that all of them were very successful in their fields and very far removed from the struggles of people trying to get a foot in the door (in a modern and internet driven society) .
I just really hope that after all of this, Troy will take his time to actually inform himself about NFTs, the company that he is advertising and why many people had such a strong reaction. Death threats and personal attacks are obviously unacceptable.
Once again, enjoyed the discussion a lot :)
I’m an educator, and the biggest takeaway here should be Troy is willing to learn and listen to his friends. I highly respect everyone for this conversation, and think Troy will seriously take all of there points seriously. A great conversation among friends.
The only negative takeaway I had was thinking that Troy probably should have done all of this supposed research and learning before he publicly attached his name to a company. Like, he kind of came on here and said "I know nothing about how they actually work they just said some fancy words at me and I liked them"
Sure, but I expect grown adults to learn about technologies / companies before partnering with them. Like it sounds like Troy knew nothing about NFTs and was more interested in the AI voice over tech which is something that companies already trying to do without NFTs.
I wouldn't IL keep that nft money is money
Troy frequently has takes I think are poorly thought out, but one thing I really do respect about him is he is not full of shit when it comes to trying to improve, and listening to criticism. The guy can come off as a handsome goober sometimes, but he is thoughtful when it comes to his own failings, and his desire to do better, and trying to understand where people are coming from. I agree with those saying he should have been wiser before jumping into something like this, but what I think is from this in the future he will be, which is more than can be said for many people.
@@Lurklen why tho what did he do that wrong tho tell me tell me what is wrong with what he did he was very accurate when he said people hates for no reason
51:26 mad respect for Mike for proposing to an alternative. Everyone needs more friends like him ❤️
Mike is just plain awesome.
also feels to me like that he knows how to do stuff propperly, in a way that works. even after alanah ask him to explain it, there was nothing he said that explained how this needs nft-tech to work.
And that he said it publicly and on record speaks volumes on his character. Making it his "personal mission"? That's an awesome thing to say, and makes me think he's in the know enough and knows the right people where what Troy truly wanted out of this can be done in other ways. I don't always agree with Mike, and think he's been woefully ignorant and naive about some other things. But not about this. I know he's a stand-up person and wasn't blowing smoke here. This was such an amazing and stand up thing to tell Troy with essentially (at the time of this writing) 73,000 witnesses.
That thumbnail looks like hes being given a stern talk by dissapointed parents
Accurate
41:49 Alanah's look says it all. I don't agree with Troy saying he's the most under threat. I don't think his level of voice acting is in danger from this tech. In AAA titles voice actors of Baker's level are hired for more than just mo-cap and voice - they are used for marketing as well. Video games on that level do the hollywood style press junkets as well and that is built into the contracts. Their value is much higher to a project than just voice. It's the voice actors trying to break in that might suffer.
Yeah and also that take from him is just so removed from reality, like I'm aware maybe it's different in a creative space like in games/animation etc. but in all of my experiences with corporations, if it ever comes down to cracking down on costs it is the people at the lowest rung of the ladder who aren't getting paid a lot that get hit because they are replaceable. Troy Baker is not replaceable, even if he puts his backing into an AI that can somewhat convincingly put his voice to script without his involvement, it won't be him and it won't have the same range of expression or promotional value. The person getting screwed over by that are the people on audition sites trying to break into whatever little role they can, because if they can replace an actor who can only do a simple performance with an AI Troy Baker for cheaper or even just a little more if the AI is worth that, why wouldn't they?
Mike I really appreciate you chiming in and, for lack of a better phrase, "checking the privilege" of the folks on the chat about starting out vs being established. Troy not being worried about being replaced is not the same as a young dreamer worried about being replaced by the AI.
Yeah. His comment about how “they aren’t gonna cut the low level guy, their gonna cut me cause I’m expensive” is blatantly wrong. Companies never fire the expensive guy to save money. They’d rather fire 100 little guys. And in troy’s industry his name has a lot of weight. Seeing Troy baker attached to a game is gonna draw customers. The companies know this. To them he is worth the money. But if they can replace 20 low level actors who aren’t well known, that’s where they’re gonna make the cuts.
I still think the tech is really cool and I get the benefit for small studios who can’t afford actors. I just think he needs to be aware that the axe is never gonna fall on him. He’s goddamn Troy Baker. He will never struggle for work
This podcast taught me that I will never know everything about a topic and that there is always more to a topic than at face value. I hope that Troy and Austin can learn this too cause it feels like their intentions come from more naivity than maliciousness. Granted I don't personally know them but I hope that they can take this as an opportunity to learn and grow.
Troy tries to ground himself so hard that it comes of as almost ignorant. Name recognition is a thing. Any time he's a voice in a game it is advertised. The game wants people to know the voice of Joel is in this game. If he stops getting roles because he's to expensive all he has to do is lower his price. At the same price he will always get the job over someone with out name recognition. There are 1000's of voice actors out there but it is always same 10 people in triple A games. And there is a reason for that. The fact he thinks he's at risk because he's too expensive kind of says it all.
I actually saw it more as a similar take to when musicians or film actors become “washed out”. Regardless of how famous or talented you are if the industry moves past you it can become nearly impossible to maintain your career and relevance in your career.
Yep, there's a reason why "Troy Baker is in every game" is a thing. Because A.) every game he's in advertises him as being in it and B.) honestly, he is in pretty much every big name/big title game. He's not the every man. He's not the small scale, low key no name voice actor just cutting his teeth in the industry or trying to make a name for himself. He doesn't live the life the standard voice actor does.
I could be wrong but aren't voice actors like Troy in a union that regulates how much or little they can charge?
@@tresher5 I would think so but by virtue of his name and status alone, I'd imagine Troy gets way more offers than Mr. New Voice Actor. And Troy himself in this podcast mentioned several times that there were people who might want his services but "just couldn't afford him."
@@tresher5 most voice actors are ficore, especially people that work in Anime. The union sets the minimum rate, which is how veteran VAs could buy houses and have health insurance. That is NOT the situation for people starting in VA today, even with industry success.
Mike's "Like Oppenheimer" at the end was just *wonderful*. Really great conversation, though, for real. Thanks, all of you.
19:18 Troy says this now, but when he tweeted "you can hate or you can create" it sounded like he was taking a stance against NFT haters which is the opposite of inviting his followers into a conversation.
Yep, that's the section of the tweet that also put me off. It makes me slightly skeptical, all respect to everyone on the podcast, but I feel like this is Troy's exit strategy where he rewrites the narrative and makes us ignore that the initial tweet seems to acknowledge the decision being unpopular, which makes ignorance seem contradictory.
I don't wish twitter witch hunts on even the worst of enemies, but also NFT's are horrific and I'm sure a lot of people feel that this is the only way to stop corporations from deciding this is the next big thing. Cancel culture is product of the populous feeling powerless and unrepresented by the ones making decisions.
if you watch further along you can tell that he was expecting backlash from voice actors cause of the voice AI tool that could potentially take jobs away from smaller VAs
He actually says this, repeatedly even in the episode? He says it was a terrible idea to put that part at the end.
There's a bit of Oppenheimer revisionism here. Don't confuse his early goals with his later change of heart. He joined the military for a reason, and it wasn't free nuclear energy for mankind.
No matter where you stand on NFTs I think we can all agree that the reply section of his tweet is hilarious.
It’s just all the characters he plays constantly bullying the tweet, it’s great
Mike is the most reasonable man alive- competely devoid from American exceptionalism and rugged individualism.
So you want everyone to be ashamed of their country and act like a bot cog in a machine? Hmm...there's a place you can go where at least the latter is already in full effect.
@MenaceInc nobody's perfect
@@samalton5837 if their country does shameful things then yeah absolutely. Be proud of the good and ashamed or disappointed in the bad. I love my country but I am deeply ashamed of some things that go on here.
@@samalton5837 If the shoe fits, yes. You should be critical of your country, especially when it's America.
@@samalton5837 that's what it is to be English we take the piss out of ourselves harder than any other country it keeps us humble and not blind to the problems in front of us
Can we skip to the part where we can go " remember when NFT's was a thing"?
😭
@@charalanahzard ONE DAY :')
Yes please
“I have no idea if I will have a job ever again” - with all due respect I found this argument of not knowing if Troy will get jobs past 2022 disingenuous.
Being arguably the biggest VA in the industry, the games industry would need to collapse on New Years Eve for that statement to hold a crumb of weight - just came across as emotional deflection lol
That was silly, sounds like playing a victim...
@@thegags there’s such a thing as disingenuous humility. Like I get wanting to be humble. But when your that famous and acting like your not any better or any less at risk than the little guy, it’s extremely insulting to the little guy. Troy knows that he’s more valuable to the industry than most other actors. To pretend otherwise is just insulting and does a disservice to himself and everyone else in the industry.
Ugh I’m so tired of NFTs…. I think the cons far outweigh the pros. Can we stop putting them into everything 🤦🏽♂️
This is where I'm at as well. I don't want to engage with them AT ALL. IN ANY FORM. I simply won't do it. NFTs are not inevitable. We can all just not engage.
God I hope you're right
Why dont coins get as much hate. I say this as a person that hates NFTs.
@@crisbernabe2866 I can only speak for myself. But I think the difference is just that people won’t stop talking about them! Also much more theft seems to happen when it comes to NFTs then coins. I’m a artist myself and I’ve even seen some people steal my own work and try selling them as NFTs.
When it comes to the gaming space I literally haven’t seen ANYONE justify what benefits it has! It almost seems like major gaming company’s are looking at NFTs as lootboxes 2.0
@@sinisin2000 Unfortunately, people DO engage though...look at the current Konami auction of their Castlevania Nasty F****** Things...there are a few over $3000 and at least one close to $8000 last time I checked a few hours ago. This NFT scam is no different from any other...scammers don't have to fool all of the people, all of the time...as long as they fool a few...
With each of these I love Mike a little bit more. He's bloody lovely.
Would be good if the focus on leaving stuff for kids generally was more focused on the health of the planet rather than money.
They’ll have a nice view of the flames from their dragon horde tho
Conversation around 41:00 mark - I am with Mike there. I think Troy is talkung about how big studios with a budget that can allow them to hire a person of Troy's caliber may want to cut down on cost. While Mike is specifically talking about a person that is only starting to work in a field. As soon as such type of technology, where one can create a good enough replacement for a real actor exists, it might become significantly harder to build up that initial portfolio for a new actor, to be invited to a more advanced jobs.
I am not sure if it will happen, but it can understand that it can be concerning for those that are just starting up.
Update: the company was stealing another artists work and using it. They admitted to it after they were called out.
I do disagree with what Troy said about them looking to get rid of the upper above the line talent. I worked my ass off as a building maintenance manager at night while working on film and TV sets during the day. When Covid hit, everyone I know who was new in the industry (below the line newer crew) were let go almost immediately, and when things started to open up again we were the absolute last people that they thought of hiring back before well established talent and crew. I do understand his point, but I think generalizing like that was a bit off base.
Even 2 months later this conversation is still very interesting and enlightening. The fact that Troy's tweet made me pause a second and read the company explanation of what was their business is a sign of how much i value his views and opinions.
I sincerely hope Troy takes the L with some humbleness instead of doubling down or deflecting. This can be a valuable learning experience. Great work getting this podcast out so promptly.
I thought he very clearly was humble in his response and willingness to listen and learn to his friends here in this very podcast. I realize the internet at large isn’t going to watch an hour+ podcast to get an update and this will be reduced to a Jason Schreier piece which will then be further copy-pasted by games media at large. But I’m glad this exists so people can go and watch for themselves and make up their own minds about Troy and his intentions.
@@MrJagermeister alot of people won't see this though. He really should make a tweet about this or showing this
Troy Baker humble 😂😂
@@ShayneRawls Yeah agreed. I’m glad that this is here for ppl that want to actually hear the full story as well as his colleagues hold him accountable for it, but it doesn’t distill an hour’s information into a single tweet (and that’s not an easy tweet to write either).
He’s probably best off tweeting out that he’s re-thought his involvement with this company due to the NFT component but still believes in the idea of empowering small creators with the ability to use the voice of a larger voice actor like himself, and then provide this link for anyone that wants to know more about what happened.
What will probably happen though is Jason Schreier will write an article, which will be copy-pasted by gaming journalism writ large, and it will probably lack context and empathy for the subject of the piece as Schreier tends to focus on the gossipy-drama of things instead. And then there will be a lot of RUclips and Twitch gaming voices and commentators that dogpile on Troy Baker for something that he doesn’t sound like he cares about or necessarily believes in (the NFT component).
I’m not a fan of anything NFT related but I do think that this conversation and controversy has the possibility to move the needle for the industry on how they try to implement NFTs into their games. And after this and the internet dragging Ubisoft for their NFT program (that they deleted), maybe this will end up being the best thing for getting them out of gaming, if temporarily awful for those involved.
@@leeeales1972 right?! 😭💀
What a lovely group of humans you are. The fact that you all come to these conversations with different backgrounds, perspectives, opinions, etc, and yet you have such grown-up, thoughtful, and loving conversations with each other is truly commendable. Additionally, I appreciate the way you check each other and hold each other accountable. Much props to Troy for being so open about his intentions and the criticism he's received. I love this show
It's nice that there exists little corners of the Internet where people can disagree, or not even disagree as if minds are made up but just explore an idea in a collective way. Where we're each throwing our incomplete pictures in the middle of the table
Like Oppenheimer
I'd say that I disagree with Troy more often than with anyone else on the pod, by a fair margin actually, but having listened to/watched every episode, I have great affection for the man and don't doubt for a second that he approaches everything in good faith with pure intentions.
I hadn't heard about any of this madness before today and didn't have a good grasp of exactly what had happened before watching. I'm extremely opposed to crypto and NFTs, but I think it's so unreasonable to transfer those feelings to someone coming into the debate innocently. I can see how someone not familiar with Troy could have read his tweet in the voice of the stereotypical NFT Bro, but anyone who has even a basic familiarity with him has no excuse for doing so. He’s infamously good people.
I guess all I really want to mention is that there were several moments in this episode when I looked at Troy’s eyes and it broke my heart. He came to this conversation as he seems to come to most things - ready to listen and learn, with a sincere desire to grow from the experience and be right going forward, even if it means admitting he was wrong in the past. No matter how much he tried to put on a brave, positive face though, and he did have genuine moments of happiness and laughter with his friends, his eyes gave away the fact that he’d been put through the ringer.
I hope Troy is through the worst of it and that things die down fast. If I was friends with him in real life, I have the feeling I’d jokingly rag on him over our points of contention on the regular, but damnit, if an angry mob came after him over some poorly chosen words in a tweet, they’d have to get through me first.
This is a really nice comment, thank you ❤️
I’m glad that the four of you were able to have this conversation. Thanks for sharing.
Also, for what it’s worth, I thought Austin’s reply to Troy’s tweet was very amusing
Baker didnt listen, at all. He acted like he was. Hate this, or create
@@werwrwrwer483 THANK YOU! This was literally just a guy pretending to listen to placate his friends and fans. I didn’t feel one ounce of sincerity from him.
@@JordanGrant92 I honestly don’t understand how you could watch this whole video and come out feeling that way
@@hobojoe9717 and I honestly don’t understand how someone couldn’t.
I'm struggling to get through this because he's apologising for how he phrased the tweet. Not for the fact that he's a part of a new technology that is harmful to careers, lives and the environment. I feel if you guys weren't friends you'd be challenging him to answer this properly.
AGREED, we had the exact same feeling. It took us 3 hours to get through this because we kept pausing to unravel all the ridiculous things he was saying. They asked the right questions in places, but rarely followed up when his answers clearly warranted pushing back on him.
He doesn’t need to apologize for anything. Troy supports NFTs and that final. Cope harder
Can’t wait to see the NFT bros come to Troy’s defense in the comment section. But seriously, I appreciate you doing this Alanah.
Troy did nothing wrong. I am far from an a NFT bro, but if you can't see the application in some places you're the ideologue.
@@Jack91790 where are nfts necessary? In which application do you need a crypto backed token for trading art? Literally zero real life situations lol
@@shiningpecan6978 There is this guy named Refik Anadol who makes really amazing digital art using machine learning and AI who sold his work as NFTs for a lot of money. I thought it was cool that someone can sell their digital work like an actual painting. But then I find out about people stealing other's work using NFTs and that's obviously horrible so I guess without regulation not much good can come out of this.
Your assumption that the only application is in art, which is a money laundering scheme and tax evasion scheme with physical art, is where you’re misunderstanding. NFT has come to mean scam for people who don’t understand the underlying technology or the potential.
@@shiningpecan6978 imagine thinking nfts are necessarily "art." how are you guys so ignorant in this digital age lol?
I just don't know how you get to January 14th 2022 without having a broad grasp of how, what certainly seems like a majority of, the internet, in particular the video game community, feels about anything NFT related.
Oh boy... And here we go..
"You can hate or you can create"
Is so damn shameful.
Yeah that shit was scummy as hell
I agree!
@@LuvYT24 wasn't intentional I'm sure, but still felt like a backhanded kind of comment if that makes sense.
Alanah was on point for the entire podcast. It was actually a breath of fresh air after I read troy's tweet.
Appreciate the discourse and that this would be addressed in such a frank manner.
I do think that Troy and Austin were pretty disconnected with the reality of the "small guy".
Troy is not at greater risk than the smaller voice actors. And while Austin is correct that there will be a portion that could not afford VO's who would use that sort of platform to add voice to products that they otherwise would not - there's also undoubtedly going to be a portion that use such a platform to cut costs in general.
That's the potentially damaging part. That's the market that smaller VO's might be able to secure some work within, but if it's cheaper to just utilise that kind of platform than we know that companies will often choose the cheaper path.
Not every VO is in a position to work on AAA games or the likes and AAA games or the likes are less likely to rely on that sort of platform than smaller projects as they have more resources at their disposal.
I think it needs to be approached with care overall.
Please don't think I'm a crypto bro, I really don't care either way about crypto. Aside from maybe the environmental impact.
With that out of the way, why does it matter if it will negatively affect the jobs of voice actors (I'm assuming VO is voice actors)? Shouldn't we be in favor of more efficiently using resources? (again, putting aside the environmental impact) I don't think companies should be expected to avoid automation, even if it destroys jobs. But maybe I'm misunderstanding.
This was mostly just alluded to in the podcast, but yeah, a significant number of smaller / aspiring VO people (legitimately imo) feel that this kinds of things is akin to Troy "pulling the ladder up behind him" so to speak.
Troys and Austins view point really did seem a bit out of touch and Im glad that Mike and Alanah tried to put things into perspective, because all of them are already established people with a fuckton of name ("brand") recognition, "clout" and contacts.
"And while Austin is correct that there will be a portion that could not afford VO's who would use that sort of platform to add voice to products that they otherwise would not - there's also undoubtedly going to be a portion that use such a platform to cut costs in general. "
But that is unavoidable. The "small guy" always has this problem no matter what. Entering a new field as someone with no experience, no reputation, no credit list ... has *always* been an uphill battle. And for a long list of endlessly changing reasons. In general, if you want to be a Voice Actor or composer or whatnot ... plan on it being fucking hard to get in. It is for everyone, and for those lucky enough to make it past those first stages and land on something resembling solid ground from which to build ... it's largely luck. Always has been. Whether you're talking Hans Zimmer, John Williams, or lil ol me. I don't see a way to fix that. It's the nature of creative fields that are also supremely competitive.
There are many many jobs that offer stable entry-level income but creative fields are rarely those. And even that being true, our industries go way out of the way to try and mitigate that, and get better all the time. For example, I have an assistant and most other working composers do too. Many have big teams in fact. This provides credits, income, experience, a chance to be a fly on the wall and learn from those more tenured than you, etc. But those assistant jobs are also competitive!
Sorry, semi-tangenting. I wanted to address one other thing re: these technologies eliminating work for 'the little guy.' I find people that fear automation or AI etc in the arts vastly underestimate the social component of this work. People don't hire Troy for the literal SOUND of his voice as much as the collaboration of working with him. He brings ideas. He brings life experience. He brings an X-factor beyond the literal execution of the craft. And the same can be said for all his counterparts at that echelon.
Similarly, it was once said to me that the most composers (particularly on huge-budget, highly intense projects) aren't hired for their music so much as the fact that they're reliable. They get the job done, and constantly make the director/producers feel at ease. They make the process feel enjoyable. No AI can do that, until the day that humans stop caring about social interaction
@@awintory While youre absolutely correct that "its happening and going to happen anyway" there is a point to be made about *accelerating* that AND also the question of who benefits from these changes in automation.
Cuz under our current organization of the economy, automation is used as a cudgel to hurt working people, when it could & should be used as a way to benefit and enrich the lives of everyone.
@@frenkzors I'm not so sure I agree that there is some plot to cudgel working people. That smells a bit of conspiracy rhetoric. I won't deny that many jobs are threatened by automation but it's also always worth remembering that cost for goods (especially basic things like household items, food, etc) are vastly cheaper on the whole than at any point in history. Which means the purchasing power of 'normal people' is also higher than ever power.
Don't misconstrue that I'm saying there's some guaranteed net gain of someone losing their job through automation. And obviously on a personal level that's always a brutal pill to swallow. Simply saying that it's never so simple that automation cuts one way
Voiceverse claims that purchasers have 100% ownership of their purchase, but also state that the voice actors will receive royalty payments. Royalty payments are payed to the owners of an asset, contradicting the 100% ownership claim. To further complicate matters they are selling access to a service under the guise of an NFT, likely either because it is a trending buzz word or a legally murky area.
NFTs are by design commodities not services, intended to be resold by the original purchaser at some point. How Voiceverse will remain funded throughout its lifespan with this market model is incredibly questionable. A subscription based software license or something similar is more sustainable.
Personally the whole thing screams scam, though hopefully for all involved it's just a marketing team obsessed with NFTs and no clue as to the damage they have incurred.
No shit it’s a scam lol
All I know is, friendship beats NFT's. Loved this episode.
Austin -- you can't let the people on Twitter reacting with threats or harassment colour your view of the criticism in general.
The majority of the responses I saw to Troy's tweet were not people arguing in bad faith. You have to keep in mind that the NFT debate has been going on for a long time at this point, and many people have already done their research, have had dialogues and are firm in their opinion about this. There really isn't a 'both sides' to NFT's right now. We have the facts. There is currently zero beneficial element to the technology, on top of it being incredibly bad for the environment.
Not as an argument for NFTs, but isn't the ability to provide and track ownership a positive attribute?
"Austin -- you can't let the people on Twitter reacting with threats or harassment colour your view of the criticism in general."
I don't, at least not intentionally. I'm extremely pro-criticism, insofar as debates are essentially *always* worth having. But I can't imagine that the "majority," as you say, of replies were not bad faith. They were more or less "lulz bro, what a tool." And this is why I said in the podcast I understand it makes me look naive about twitter... I mean, what should I expect? I still don't like it, but I suppose it's on me to get over that (or better yet, use twitter less!).
But when you say "You have to keep in mind that the NFT debate has been going on for a long time at this point, and many people have already done their research, have had dialogues and are firm in their opinion about this. There really isn't a 'both sides' to NFT's right now. We have the facts." that makes it sound like debate is now invalid.
How many subjects could we say that for? Vegans would say the same thing. There is no more debate to be had, and all non-Vegans are immoral.
Environmentalists often say the same re: nuclear power.
The Amish say the same re: smart phones!
These are "settled" moral questions in their minds. But are they?
Is a debate over simply because you've hashed it out more than someone new to the discussion? I'm sympathetic to the idea that it's frustrating to passionately invest in an issue, only to have someone new walk in, not do their homework, and start spouting facts. But it's also a fact of life that we're all at different spots along the spectrum of information, and therefore debate is *always* worth it. At least IMO. But I'm a guy who likes watching debates on youtube between Evolutionary Biologists and Young Earth Creationists, and I mean if ever ANY subject was supposedly settled, it'd be that one right?
@@awintory well said
@@awintory “But I can't imagine that the "majority," as you say, of replies were not bad faith. They were more or less "lulz bro, what a tool."”
Troll comments like this don’t really fit the common usage of ‘bad faith’ as far as I’ve ever seen it used, but fair -- I wouldn’t doubt that the majority of responses were insults like this. I’m probably just conditioned to gloss over stuff like that.
“But it's also a fact of life that we're all at different spots along the spectrum of information, and therefore debate is always worth it.”
I think the nature of the internet has damaged this idea, at least for me. It’s one thing to have this mentality in your everyday life (and I would absolutely discuss the situation with NFT’s from the ground up with a coworker or friend, for example), but I don’t think you can approach things in the same way online. Social media isn’t built for it, and at a certain point, you have to assume that people would have done their due diligence before speaking on something. To bring it back to the situation with Troy - I don’t think it’s unfair for people to have assumed that he surely would have done his research on NFT’s before getting into business and putting his name behind them? That doesn’t excuse any of the extremes to be clear, but I think it does justify people starting the conversation from that position.
"…that makes it sound like debate is now invalid. How many subjects could we say that for?"
How many hot button debates are fact-based these days, though? As opposed to many of your examples, this is a situation where you really can just look at the raw facts of the technology and see that there isn’t much of a debate to be had.
I have no issue with discussing future possibilities of NFT’s, but they are (currently) a solution to a problem that does not exist. People keep trying to find the problem, but so far literally none of the proposed ideas could only be done with this technology. OR, the ideas are so grand and unrealistic that it’s clearly either coming from a place of ignorance or self-interest.
And again -- while we patiently wait for someone to find a justification for NFT’s to exist, they’re heavily contributing to the climate crisis. I know there’s plenty of things I participate in that contribute to this as well, but it’s NFT’s current lack of utility that makes them particularly hard to stomach with this in mind.
It's just kinda weird to me that Troy jumped on the first Company that offered him a Service like that, a Service that is occording to him helping everyone. I would have atleast check out the market in that Space(?) Like you wouldn't join the first Creator Network that emails you.
Especially with a Team like he has they could have easily found Alternatives without the NFT integration and if they actually did some Research in the Weeks they had conversations they for sure would have found out what People on Twitter found out in 5 mins. on how untrustworthy that Company was/is.
When you're excited and passionate about something, it's very easy to tunnel-vision a bit and just want to try and take that next step into something real. The response to the tweet was the wake-up call that meant revising the execution.
I know Troy is not an idiot but man he really went in head first on this without doing much research and that to me is a huge red flag.
I love that before the tweet he watched Peacemaker. A show about a tone deaf character who sees people as bad or good. Haters or creaters. Not the best inspiration for bringing people together. Especially for NFTs
Oh that's fascinating. People really underestimate how powerful the stories we tell can be. Especially ironic when those people are themselves storytellers.
Character is often defined in how we respond when people call us out for our mistakes. Good on Troy for remaining calm and taking feedback.
I think some marketing people see how much NFTs are "trending" and think using that term will help their product, but how they are used in gaming is overwhelmingly negative and informed gamers will not respond well to any new "NFT" product.
So I listened to the podcast twice before looking at their website, and... it feels like the project couldn't be further away from what Troy thinks it is.
It's NFTs from cover to cover, with no explanation of what they'll be creating or using in order to achieve this.
You know what a real AI voice generation project doesn't have? A bizarre backstory about Ethyears and Centums and how mysterious they are and ooOoOo look at how scarce these things are, and how you'll be missing out if you don't get in now.
If Troy wants to contribute to real AI voice generation to aid smaller studios, there are plenty of real projects out there that have ZERO NFT NONSENSE. Murf and Resemble (both .ai domains) are just two examples of companies trying to achieve this. I don't know anything about them beyond their purpose, so they may also be terrible companies behind the scenes, but... at least their obvious purpose is to create convincing AI generated voices for all kinds of commercial purposes. Troy could contribute voice data to train voices on these platforms.
Come on, Troy. Did you just close your eyes, plug your ears, and take the paycheck on this?
not only that but the company he signed on with has already been caught stealing ai voices from other websites and changing them just enough that they aren’t exactly the same, even if people didn’t revile NFT’s this company would still be garbage.
Why not ask your friends that have been bagging on NFTs if launching an NFT is a good idea BEFORE you get involved? Crazy idea
Cause maybe they’re wrong
NFT Art Theft is the reason why this is a bad idea.
The NFT sales pitch is for artists to earn from their works, but in reality it has de-evolved to be the actual opposite as NFTs have caused a significant rise in piracy and theft of digital artwork (and mostly for fraudulent profit) that is hurting creators. So many projects are essentially asset flips full of plagiarised and copyrighted stolen artwork.
And when the NFT creator, disappears with all the money, the artwork creator suddenly gets spammed by people saying “your NFT ripped us off” despite having nothing to do with the scam, their name was used illegally on it.
So many artists have been victimns of this lie, some really high profile digital, comic and hollywood artists have been victimns... its not helping them, the artists are being robbed.
A voice NFT... will just lead to voice artists being robbed.
Art theft existed before NFT's doh and the blatant thefts are being pulled from market places something that doesn't happen on traditional DTG market places without hiring IP protection!
@@sprocket-YT Yes theft has existed since the dawn of time, but as I said "NFTs have caused a significant rise in piracy and theft of digital artwork" most recently.
There are some pretty henious reports of some of how artists are being ripped off, but its also the reputational damage and stress its causing artists to have their name being used to sell scams.
@@boxhead6177 A voice NFT... will just lead to voice artists being robbed..... last time I checked you can't save a JPEG of someones voice! lets get real DTG art theft is bigger than NFT's yet it's been totally ignored by gamers odd that!
@@sprocket-YT ??? An NFT is a token that is attached to an electronic file or physical item (similar to a bardcode), it can be any file format including a sound file.
@@boxhead6177 So a mp3/wav sound recording of them saying one thing! literally you are clutching at straws the fact gamers are getting outraged at this is plain embarrassing.
Wouldn't this technology make it harder for new voice actors to get into the industry? Devs could easily choose the cheaper option of using Troy's samples or other famous voice actor instead of risking giving the job to a new talent. It feels weird.
Yes.
Troy doesnt give a shit about new voice actors. It's been pretty clear for a while, even before this
@@SebastianSyrinx He even says so in this podcast. He cares about his retirement. Everything else is hot air.
Yep 100%. Troy seemed to be completely missing this point. He argued something along the line of "companies would want to cut big name expensive actors like me, not smaller voice actors" but in reality that isn't how it would go down, and I don't understand how he could be so oblivious. If a company can get an AI version of Troy Baker for the same price or less than some newbie voice actor, why wouldn't they? They benefit from the name recognition and don't have to pay the full price.
It will have 0 effect on anybody
"It looks, I dunno, NFT in style..." LMAO
I just wanna say, Alanah is just such a great person. Just the careful gentle effort she puts into explaining the video game industry and everything connected to do it. How she takes careful seconds to decide the exact words she wants to use to clearly explain the complexities. Honestly inspired me to slow down and choose more honest words in my day to day conversations.
I think Troy is good at taking criticism from people he knows and respects. If he doesn't know or respect you, you get the Teddy Roosevelt tweet.
lol
I’ve actually noticed that he is very good at taking criticism personally. Like if you said “I didn’t like troys performance in the last of us 2” I think he’d handle that well. But if you say “I didn’t like the last of us 2” he gets very defensive. It’s like you can criticize him, but not the thing he worked on and I find that mentality very strange. But I think he’s said before that when people criticize the game as a whole he feels like it’s attacking all his friends who worked on it too
@@JormungandrTheWorldSerpent I think he’s just protective over the team. He has a relationship with Naughty Dog, knows a lot of the people that work there and sees how hard they work. It’s like a family to him, you can say whatever you want to him but don’t talk about his family. I’m not saying it’s right but in a roundabout way it’s actually kind of sweet that he cares.
Oh I loved this episode. Alanah was nothing but a great friend. Honest, calling a friend out on his shit. But still being very respectful. Loved that so much!
I just have a little push back on a company who wants Troy in their project but can't afford him. My issue with that statment is, if this technology moves forward and becomes a thing then up-and-comers won't have the opportunities to "make it" in the industry because the company can just use one of Troy's many voices instead of this new person who now can't show the world their talents and what they can bring.(edit) I posted this before the conversation at 39:00
Also, if you think he suddenly got really into financial planning just ever so randomly at this time and decided to just set up his whole financial profile with retirement and his kid and whatever else, I have a timeshare to sell you.
This man was expecting a WINDFALL from this deal. In the exact same way that lottery winner are told the very first thing they should do is get a financial planner before even claiming the money, because its actually really difficult to manage a large sum of money effectively. He's just trying to talk really fast because he hopes you won't think too hard about how its pretty weird that, totallly unprompted lol, he felt the need to set up his entire financial life right as he was set to recieve an undisclosed amount of money.
And the fact that he said a flat out "No" to the question about any of his motivation being related to money just tells it had ALOT to do with the money and it was also a lot of it. Like anyone would fault him for being slightly motivated by money, we literally all are to some degree.
But yeah, thanks rich white man, please tell me again how important it is to save for retirement. Since we know you'll never have to struggle to achieve it by the pure fact that you had the luxury of not worrying about it until you had enough interest in it, I really value your perspective on it 😀 it just occured to you that you should get around to do it and you had enough money to just do it right then. But please keep telling me how important my pennies are, I dont feel talked down to at all by someone who will never struggle to do the thing in question 😀😀😀
You've always said that the heart of this show is four friends who can have a respectful conversation while vehemently disagreeing with each other and this week you proved it. Great job and I hope Troy's ok. We've all got something we'd lke to get a mulligan for.
Austin is kind of a babe. Why am I only noticing this now? Help.
The phrasing of this comment made me laugh out loud 😂
About 5-10 mins in btw: Troy, this is less about how it hurts or doesn’t hurt YOU, and more about how it hurts MORE. Sure it may not harm YOU and your career and financial well being in the long run, but that speaks for only you.
I promise there are PLENTY of other VAs out there who WOULD MUCH RATHER not have their voices used just whenever however, taking the need for their work entirely outta the picture, therefore making their hands on work irrelevant. Why endorse a thing that’s so clearly harmful to your own industry as a whole? When your AGENT even says so, and you don’t listen cuz YOU’RE blinded by your own passion, a passion this company does NOT give a damn about and has no intention to work towards, why? Put my name on this cuz I hope this does this, even though it’s ENTIRELY out of my own control as a whole, why???
You’re so much smarter than that Troy, you are.
So, I've taken some time today to think about this whole thing. I hope the 4 hosts read this - but I know there will be thousands of comments.
After reading the Twitter storm and watching this video, the first thing that keeps coming to my brain is: I really wish Troy did not do this in the first place. He's the most popular, well-paid, and in-demand actor in the industry. I'm having a hard time believing he is this ignorant about the harm of NFTs. If he is knowledgeable on NFTs and chose this partnership anyway, that is even more hurtful and dissappointing. Neither of those rationalizations sit well with me. They're both bad.
The second thought my brain goes to is: Well, it happened. So where does this go? My initial hope is that it will lead to a redaction of the partnership. Im not mad about his tweet. Im sad that he is doing this. Troy, I really want you to take your friends' advice and not do this. Find another way, man. Take Mike up on his offer. You're the biggest name in the business. You have a huge platform to enact change and advance the industry.
Thanks for reading.
Look if Troy want to do nft let him, don’t force him to change his mind about it.
And look im on nobody sides, if someone want to Join a bad Company let them support their decision, if they don’t want to join a bad company then support their decision.
Best thumbnail of the year! Kudos to whom so ever has come up with it. Made my day😊
I make the thumbnails!
Good on Alanah. I love how she always sticks to her principles and views.
Genuinely appreciate the conversation, the different sides of this, and the direct dialog (confronting a friend can be hard, honestly). I don't think Troy is a bad person, not saying he's perfect either. You all have built a great platform.
Always appreciate your professionalism Alanah.
NFTs are simply shady, environmentally harmful & a scam plain & simple. They need to be stopped period.
Alanah- “Are you doing this to make a profit?” Troy- “No well I’m being paid though” lol classic
To be fair, being paid does not always = profit.
I had to physically laugh out loud because he really thinks we're all idiots.
@@ScooterManCR did he make it or is he just being paid for work? If it is not his it means no money going out and money coming in aka PROFIT! if he had to put money out then that means there is a chance of no profit!
@@bigRanBo we really don’t have answers to those questions. I’m not saying he’s not making a profit. Just saying they don’t always go hand in hand.
@@atinyjedi You comment seems to indicate you're not very familiar with Troy's character.
You all are great friends. So many people are so quick to throw Troy under the bus. ❤️
Glad you guys discussed this. Appreciate your integrity in holding your stance, even with Troy being your friend. NFT’s are not just dumb, they’re a slippery slope to disaster.
Troy saying that a company will fire the most expensive people in hard times feel really disconnected from the corporate reality. Corpos will carve out every low level position they can before they even consider the top brass.
Troy trending for getting ratio'd about NFTs was not on my 2022 bingo card.
So I guess we're all here, huh?😂
Austin Wintory's comparable example to what Troy wants to do for those indie game developers who don't have a budget to use Troy's voice. I appreciate this episode and greatly appreciated the differing opinions. Subbed!
I respect that Troy is holding his hands up for what was an incredibly stupid tweet. I also respect that he says he's going to learn from this.
However, during this discussion, all I could think was, he had conversations for WEEKS with this company and somehow learned nothing about NFTs and the general negative reaction around them (or even, apparently, that they were an NFT company despite them calling themselves VoiceVerse NFT). I do actually believe when he says that this wasn't some get rich quick scheme for him, but that part made him sound woefully naive when it comes to who he associates his name with. And for someone with his level of success and fame, I find that baffling.
Sure, he's learned it's a bad idea NOW, but perhaps it would have been wiser to look into all this BEFORE attaching his name to it.
I think that's the main issue for a lot of these people who get into NFTs. They see this as something that can benefit them but not realize the side effects due to lack of knowledge or research, which makes it worse on them. I'm all for education and discussion but I think the company he's working with were not transparent with him about the NFT side of it. We can't be for sure of why that is but now Troy needs to be more aware the next time something like this comes up. He really should have done more research on this. It would have saved him a lot of backlash. Hopefully he learned from this and not do this again.