I'm critiquing someone's story on Wattpad, and I'm constantly annoyed at the way she (the writer is a woman) depicts the main characters' relationship and how totally unrealiztic her female character reacts (not at all) to being raped and stuff. I think I'm getting on her nerves a bit about it. XD Another fun thing is that another story I'm critiquing is written by a man, and he has many and well rounded female characters who feel like real people with real reactions. So yeah, being man or woman doesn't automatically make you good or bad at writing women (or men). That said, I'm tired of people always acting as if everything on Wattpad is bad. That's just as bad as saying no man can write a woman right.
I have criticized a female writer and she said I am a woman so I am right and you're wrong. I was like Um, your characters are moving really fast. They just met and are already making out..
@@SysterYster I also write on Wattpad but right now I'm writing fanfiction and planning to start with my original. I was thinking to ask my readers to become a critique reader for my works. If you are willing to, can you check out my work?
I mean to be fair, yeah, age does to an extent give you the context to assess yourself objectively. I'd probably have had trouble writing a man at 18 too because I'd know what it felt like to be me, but not necessarily have the greater context to extrapolate on new characters. Seeing those interpersonal interactions for a long time gives you a larger sample size of reactions that you just don't have as a young person. Not to say that's the exact same for you but that was my similar experience.
There's a difference between being a woman, and writing a woman. There's a difference between being a man and writing a man. The first pass at the hero character in a story tends to be strong and perfect. But it's the flaws that make the character interesting (and believable). For example the character Thomas Covenant is a leper who rapes a girl, and he's the hero. Talk about flawed! Consider that a character doesn't have to be consistent; as men don't have just one mode, so women don't. That's depth of character. Throw in some trees and buildings, add a chase scene, and you have a story. good luck!
Especially if you are trying to write a character (of any gender) that is different from yourself. Me personally, I have difficulty writing characters that thrive on conflict, drama, and arguments. I myself don't like any of those. But different personalities and the flaws within them are part of what drives a story forward and makes it interesting. Thus....
Women don't have to be emotionless to be strong. They don't have to be humorless to be mature. They don't have to be flawless to be reliable. They don't have to refuse help to be independent. They don't have to be role models to be main characters. They don't have to talk about how subversive they are or how oppressed they feel under the patriarchy. And they don't have to know how to fight to be part of the story.
Women don’t have to be single to be a BA. and she doesn’t have to be in a relationship to be gentle. 😂. I always see girls in relationships becoming gentle who used to be a BA, and hard girls refusing relationships just because they’re too bad for it
When people talk about characters being emotional or non emotional, they are usually referring to some emotions over others. Fear, or sadness, panic, or hysteria, not anger nor rage. A cold blooded emotionless man who experiences no fear or anger is not a realistic character.
Side note, that societal expectation of "guys are horney and willing" gets lots of guys sexually harassed, assaulted, and laughed at when they come forward.
@@punchforpound2808 Men can be sexually assaulted. They often get laughed at when they say that it has happened to them (mostly because sexual assault as a whole is very stigmatized.) Case in point: Terry Crews. Now, I can't tell if you're trolling or not. If you are, I'll leave this comment for the people who actually care. If you aren't a troll, have a good day.
100% true... but this is just tip of an iceberg. Many women live in the stupid conviction that they have to do something or think because this is what the archetypes in films show ... ...and books. This is terribly damaging because it often deprives them of something by their stupid beliefs. EDIT: Sorry about my English, i'm not native speaker.
“You do not need to make your female characters reject femininity to be strong or capable.” If there is one takeaway from this video that’s applicable to real life, LET IT BE THIS.
One of my character is a vampire assassin who wears impractical gothic Victorian-era dresses and is so much of a badass that it doesn't usually affect her combat ability. At one point someone asks why she doesn't wear more practical attire and she says "aesthetic" Edit: Also later she's asked a similar question by a different character and she says "YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND, PUNY MORTALS!", turns into a bat, and flies away
Everything Coffee I was doing some research into fighting in ball gowns/dresses earlier, and they’re actually really good for protecting from shallow slashes and obscuring your vitals.
yep. and mothers and housewives are some of the strongest women I know. we don't get enough stories about women who are married or have children being the kickass protag :(
I'd agree with this point. But remember, a strong, capable character tends to come across as less interesting to men and women alike, depending on their age and country. To my mother, a story about a woman who saved herself was boring, while a story about a women saved by a man romantic. You can put that aside as being the old generation, but my wife, from Ukraine, feels the same way. Not all countries are as feminist as America.
Addition: bringing up periods does not automatically equal characterization. A woman can have a character arc without mentioning her menstrual cycle once!
Just to be clear, I have not actually published anything, and don't actually do this. Mostly because all of the dialogue would end with variations of the clause "with murder in their heart." Gloria came down the stairs slowly and carefully for most part, but was unable to restrain from doing a little hop off the last one, arms spread slightly to maintain her balance, then spreading wider as she rose to her full height and broke into a light run before launching herself at the guest in her doorway. "Gary!" she cried out as her arms clumsily wrapped around his neck. "I've missed you so much!," she hissed in his ear, with murder in her heart.
Best tip I personally would give, don't write female characters, write good characters who happen to be female. Meaning focus first on making them a good character, and then after that's done you make them female
I'm 60 years old, and I can tell you men and women in those 60 years have rarely acted the same. Sometimes the differences are subtle, but a story about a woman who doesn't come across as a woman wouldn't appeal to me and probably not to most people. I've met high ranking women in the military who stood tall and commanded respect in public, but were the sweetest mothers around their children, so how a person acts and how they are aren't always the same, and a person can be many things. But a female character who happens to be female is one dimensional, making for a boring story.
Me at the start of the video. All comments are true, I use the first comment as how I approach any character but the third comment is also true that I should at the same time write a woman...I hope this video helps me.
For the most part, but that's too simplistic of a view. Men and women's experiences in society do differ somewhat and it's important to recognise that.
Okay, I think I hit most of the points but I think the trouble I have is that I don't know how to write love or attraction from either genders...thanks Jenna, I'll have to start working on point ten then.
As a dude, this is really helpful especially since my protagonist is female. And yes I welcome a part 2. Maybe even a "how to write male characters" as well.
Check out MLP Friendship is Magic. Pretty much every kind of female character, and most of the "good" male ones, too. And the show's actually pretty good.
@@HighLordoftheBathroom Unfortunately it is not completed. My laptop got a virus not too long ago and that hindered the process heavily. The laptop is fine now, but I've only completed 14 chapters. Not sure how many more chapters there will be. You can give me your email and I can send you a first draft (when it's done) if you're interested. I could use a beta reader who I've never met before who could give me a brutally honest review.
#11 Don’t make a strong woman by dumbing down all the men around her. It is possible for both women and men be strong in their own right, at the same time. #12 If you claim your woman is strong, show them doing something strong. Don’t just talk about it then all we see is a damsel in distress.
@@dragletsofmakara1120 There's actually technically one for #11 too, but it's gender-neutral. TBH, there's probably a trope for everything. XD tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotBall
@@VNightmoon Well Tv Tropes dosen't have everythin (they're working on it) but by defintion, their is a trope for everything. Cause you know, tropes are just what we call the building blocks of stories.
Can please we get a “How to write male characters” with Cliff? Like you could ask him questions and tell us his response? I’m a tomboy but I want to make sure that my male characters are like actual men.
Because us guy's wrote most of the media you've consumed. And sometimes the stuff you read by women was about unrealistic men and the women are still tokens (looking at you you, yaoi!)
TheRealAGH I’m not saying there isn’t great female representation out there, but there’s a lot of sexist tropes that are still way too prevalent as well
Some people suggest "ignore character's gender/write them as male, then make them female", but I'd be careful with that. People tend to be biased about men as much as they are about women, and writing a character as a great male character then turning them into a great female character may sort of result in this "masculine-ish woman trope" (bonus penalty points if she rejects femininity). Additionally, if you build your character as gender-neutral and then specify the gender at the end, you may miss out on some valuable gender-related experiences and dynamics. Keep in mind point #2 from the video (Society Matters). You can build a society where gender-based expectations basically don't exist, but you can also get some compelling plot points out of the society's take on genders and sexuality. If you gender-neutralise your characters and the world too eagerly, you make your storytelling toolset more limited. What I'd suggest instead is acknowledging various unfounded biases about men and women - both societal and one's own - and remembering that people's potentials are broader than that. At the same time, not disregarding the relevance of one's biology, gender identity, sexuality, and the social context they live in - these still can shape character's experiences, roles and relationships. It's not easy, and pretty much impossible to do perfectly - I myself have biases that I still need to consciously correct. Still, the better you get at it, the more varied your characterisation and worldbuilding becomes.
@@user-kf6yt4mn9v You seem to be addressing only the first paragraph of my original post, and it sorta sounds like that's all you read. Just please note that the original post - as well as my response right now - is longer than that, and that you can click "Read more" to see them in their full overly long glory. With that out of the way... > "Why is everyone here obsessed with female characters daring to reject femininity." I think it's a reaction to "Real Women Don't Wear Dresses" Trope in Aggregate. As in, that storytelling trend that whenever a woman was meant to be strong and capable, she would be presented as more stereotypically "masculine". Quoting TvTropes: "It's not hard to spot the Unfortunate Implications: that traditionally feminine traits are worthless and women must "masculinize" themselves to be taken seriously." I don't know whether this storytelling trend is still as strong as it used to be. However, the underlying notion - that woman needs to be more "masculine" to be treated seriously - seems to be still prevalent in many societies. > "Oh noooo, we can't have women not [acting stereotypically feminine, basically]. Crying emoji." Just because I don't like a certain brand of femininity-rejecting female characters, it doesn't mean I want the exact opposite. I want neither cardboard cutout "overly feminine damsel in distress" nor cardboard cutout "strong and independent woman, totally not like these other wimpy girls". I want more of these women in the middle, who are "feminine" in some regards and not so much in others. Or women who embrace "femininity" while still being competent and having agency. Or women who chose not to be "feminine" just because that's how they like it - not to set themselves apart from these "silly other women" or to rebel against stereotypes. It's just as you said, some women are mostly "feminine", some women are mostly not and some women are somewhere in the middle. I have no issue with that. Jenna herself in point #5 specifically mentioned that tough tomboys are fine, it's just that being strong and acting "feminine" aren't mutually exclusive (as some stories make it seem). So please don't make it sound like people who dislike "femininity-rejecting women" trope want only stereotypically female women instead. I'm pretty sure few people are actually like that - if any at all - and most just want to see characters more nuanced than shallow "femininity-embracing" or "femininity-hating" women.
And the female characters definitely shouldn't be like "I don't need a man to get stronger", she need someone who might be a guy or a girl (better if he is a guy) as a person or as a friend and then romance if it's a guy then it would create both strong partnership and romance as need and definitely not be like"it's bad to revolve a life around a man,so don't give ultimate importance to the man" She and the guy could be partners as main characters pursuing towards the goal together You might use gender for unimportant points like having crush or something
I’m a female writer who mostly writes female characters as the main characters of my stories, so it’s always fun to take tips on writing every gender, male female, non-binary, etc. Love ur vids, Jenna!
Hey jenna. One about males would be great too. Someone I'm trying to write is a male who was sexually harassed and I want to know how to go about it in a possibly comforting and educating way.
Depends on how sexually harassed you want your character to be. Are we talking "an ugly girl kissed me" or demented catholic priest? Are we talking 16 year old boy giving in to a hot 23 year old teacher who says, "Come to my house and I'll give you an A", or a pizza boy who gets f'd out of his pizza? Let's be real here; if a lady pizza delivery person gets f'd out of her pizza, she's gonna report it to the police as soon as she can. The guy? He's taking pictures to prove it happened when he brags to his friends. Step one would be to establish why a guy would resist. Moral stance and commitment to another come to mind, as does he's gay and thinks women are icky... Good luck.
@@geraldfrost4710 I'd add the point, sexual harassment doesn't have to be a come on. More broadly, it's people of the opposite sex saying or doing things that single you out BECAUSE of your sex. If you're a man, surrounded by female workers who are making your life hell b/c they don't want a dude working there, it can constitute sexual harassment.
@@cmay7429 Thank you for pointing out that varying grades of harassment are real. All the way from subtle, to Animal (from the Muppets) chasing after a young lady yelling "Woman! Woman! Woman!" (her screams and his chant fade into the background as he chases her away.) For a real life example, I know of a woman who runs the billing department for a hospital. She has 75 women working for her, and no men. Upper management continually asks her to hire some men, and the longest any have lasted is about two weeks. Part of the problem (apparently) is men getting chased off by, um, thirsty women. The common pattern is guys chasing gals, and guys can be dumb as rocks. But even smart guys can miss the mark; when he thinks he's flirting she thinks he's a creep. Women can make the same categories of mistakes, but more often I've seen women make subtle hints, and the hints miss the target (because a guy usually doesn't catch a hint even if dropped from a great height). Example: I was pulling a boat onto its trailer on the ramp (to get it out of the way so I could get my boat out of the water). I wound up unexpectedly nose to nose with the lady on the bow of the boat. She was wearing about 20 square inches of bathing suit, a sun hat, and probably footwear. From five inches away she said (in a husky voice), "You have gorgeous eyes! You have the same eyes as Keanu Reeves!" It didn't sink in. Three days later I realized I'd been flirted with.
Women do not have the male gaze: Jenna, sweetheart, baby, darling... as a lesbian who frequents lgbt circles and is often outright disgusted by her peers I totally disagree. Women can be awful to one another, and it comes with the blue ribbon "but I'm not a man so this is totally okay and not creepy or dehumanizing at all :D" tag.
Ikr? It's weird how she equates "male" with "straight". Correct me if I'm mistaken, but at no point in the entire video does she appear remotely conscious of homosexuality to me. Now I actually agree with her advice overall. I do think it's funny in the light of her final advice, though. If she had consulted just one guy during the making of this video instead of assuming that she knows everything about women simply because she is one, he could have easily pointed out the existence of lesbians to her - thereby enabling her to make an even more accurate video on how to write women ;)
@@Hydorior She already knows lesbians exists tho, seen in multiple videos. She's pretty supportive of lgbtq+ from what I see. just sayin', before you assume she's homophobic or such. I really, really don't wanna start anything so I'm sorry if this comment is offensive in any way(youtube arguments look EXHAUSTING to just _read_ yo), but I think that was just an honest human mistake on Jenna's part. But I mean, what do I know, I'm just a teen who seeks all this writing advice to write fanfiction I'll never post Also, the whole "but I'm not a man so this is totally okay and not creepy or dehumanizing at all :D" blue ribbon tag? big yikes there :( makes me think of the male victims of abuse
Yeah, it is even a joke since the 60s, women noticing instantly when another woman changed her hair, and men are just like "oh, I see no change at all" The gaze is more an internal factor than an external one
Thank you for pointing out the hating femininity. I've heard that a lot of female writers create characters that hate femininity. And I'm not just talking about things that associate with femininity, but feminine traits. Things that come naturally to women that are feminine such as nurturing. Also a woman can be both feminine and tom boy.
I think part of it is that there's a lot of disagreement about what femininity even is. Where biology ends, where sociology begins, what's basic maturity, and what's just personality quirks.
What you wrote about nurturing probably falls into Jennas #1 point. Are women actually naturally better at nurturing or are we just expected and taught to be? There's definitely a lot of hormonal stuff happening around childbirth but other than that it's very cultural. The idea that women are naturally more nurturing and men less so is what leads to for example women winning custody easier even when they are horrible mothers and the father should've won, or when men are assumed to be creeps if they want to work with children. Even if there's an overall biological difference, I'm not buying that it's actually very pronounced. Another thing, but isn't the whole definition of a tomboy that it's a masculine girl/woman? I don't think a feminine tomboy would be called a tomboy. Femininity is obviously on a scale but if it's dominating enough for the girl/woman to be called feminine, then I don't think they meet the criteria of being a tomboy. Maybe that's just me.
I have a character that's a tomboy, and I'm trying to make it clear that she appreciates feminine things such as dresses and pretty things, but she herself prefers not to wear them. I don't like women trying to belittle other women for being "girly".
@@maxyperson I don't know if you were only replying to the first post or also to what I wrote, but I'll comment anyway :p I think it's true that it would be a tomboy if she's just accepting of other people being feminine while she isn't herself, but that's also just being a decent person. There's definitely a tendency for some girls and young women to distance themselves from girly things and look down on them, but this also has to do with the fact that society as a whole looks down on girly things and they don't want to be looked down upon. Usually when they get older, they understand that they can have different tastes while not looking down on others, and hopefully also understands that society's hate towards anything girly is sexist and ridiculous. A tomboy (or any other person) that doesn't like the fact that other people are girly is just a bit of an asshole.
The problem is women aren't really better at nurturing. We are just socialized. I can't even take care of plants. Femininity isn't natural to woman. But that doesn't mean is right to make fun or hate women who act feminine. We need to respect our differences.
“Sexy is not a personality trait” 🙌🙌🙌🙌 yessss. Great tips, Jenna. I struggled with some misogynistic writing in my early years and I’ve learned a lot by strengthening the women perspective. I like hearing your thoughts on the approach! And I’m totally there with you on babies.
How to write man.. 10 points to keep in mind. 1. man are simple, so we dont think about what to wear, what to eat. 2. man are logical, if there is a problem, we would find the most direct solution to that problem.. 3. man dont make small talks with other people unless they are close or forced too... this is why most man have things like alone time or man cave.. 4. man like to do things, this is why most man like video game, DIY and action movie.. 5. man like to help others, this is why most man wont reject a request for assitance, particuarly if it involve manual labor, especially if it came from a woman.. 6. man care more about function than aesthetic, this goes back to man are simple.. 7. man dont think about woman and thier naughty bits all the time. 8. when man talk about woman, we tend to talk about them like an object, that is why pretty face, boobs or butts always came up when man talk about woman particularly with other man, it's just the spec of the object.. we dont mean anything bad with it, it's just how our brain works. 9. man arent picky when come to woman, while most man will have a personal standard, usually, if it has boobs and a vagina, it's good enough.. that is why man's fetishes range are so so huge.. 10. man like to look at pretty woman, when man look at other beautiful woman, it doesnt mean he doesnt love his partner, its just an intinct that we have.. this is why things that man likes tend to also polulated with images of beautiful or sexy woman, this is also the main reason "sex sales". bonus point... man's little brother can get hard for no reason at all... man's little brother is very sensitive to touch, so it doesnt take much to get it up, this is probably why people thinks man are horny all the time.. thankfully, this decrease with age...
Just don't make either of male or female weak or useless forever, (they may be weak from the start)other than that make them anyway you want, they can be anything depending on the story You can see male characters have so much simplicity or complexity and women characters are like "they can be strong and don't need anyone,nothing else than that" That itself is a huge stereotype. And don't make women character as only becoming strong,or always serious and violent and fierce,that shouldn't be it's main aspect, or it should be it's least important aspect,and their character should have other aspects and they should be already strong,so that they shouldn't have the fierce drive to become totally independent and strong, make them bit talented,and not always should have the strong drive to become strong,because if they are not weak they don't need to be strong either It's how male characters are And don't create stupid stereotypes,that will make them more stupid they can be anything or have any interest or genuine love interest given with proper reasons, and that shouldn't make them weak if it's genuine ( that could be done with proper reasons, just make love by friendship and that would be simple) So don't say like "don't make them too love the romantic interest otherwise it will make them weak, (that's bullshit, because if it's obsessesion that will make them weak, but not love, or love should be true and genuine like deeper friendship and become strong together and they both become strong and love the person or get stronger because of the person they love) "
Jenna, could you do some tips on writing family dynamics? Or parent-child dynamics? I really want to write about how even good parents can mess up on raising their children and how that affects the child and the parent, but it's really conplex and I think just knowing how to break this down to research/plot would be great
The best source of inspiration would probably be your own family dynamic. If (like me) you aren't particularly proud of your family, then you may want to consider having the parents be dead or something. It's a cliché, I know, but it's a cliché that still works. In a story I'm working on, the protagonist's parents will die, but she'll end up choosing a family of her own later in the story. Depending on how good you are at writing character interactions, maybe you could have your story be about the dynamics between a child and their adoptive guardian or mentor.
Big fan of how you address positive tips for writing instead of always following the trend that many RUclipsrs in this genre overdo which is the "10 reasons why your book sucks and you should quit writing" video. I like how you actually try to help writers succeed rather than list perceived negative qualities of writers for views. I find those other channels only succeed in discouraging new writers rather than helping them.
@@thesamuraiman I've got life experience being male and I can tell you that, according to people who have read my old writing about the being a guy, I'm *apparently* not using the default settings.
"Believe it or not, most women don't try to look good for men." THANK YOU. I keep trying to explain this to my boyfriend, but he doesn't get it. He tells me I don't have to put on mascara or brush through my hair to look pretty for him, and I'm thinking, "sweet, but I want to look good for ME when I'm looking in the mirror." LOL
This is because most men only look good for women. They very rarely dress for themselves and themselves only. The concept of looking good for us is a relatively foreign concept to most guys.
But Jennaaaaaa... she should be a long-haired brunette with luscious looks and rainbow-colored eyes and is unable to choose between two boys she is in love with: her prince charming childhood best friend or the hot tsundere emo boy that just walked in to her life yesterday😟😟 Edit: Did I forget to mention she's a doormat and must always be saved?
And she can, just give her a personality too. Heck, just go with the idea that she MADE her eyes rainbow: and you have a million awesome things you can do with that.
I mostly agree with you. However, just passing the Bechdel-test is by no means enough in my opinion. There are exceptions like Esmeralda from Disney's "hunchback of notre-dame" (who is sort of the only woman in the movie, except for the mother that dies in the beginning), but just aiming to pass the Bechdel-test sets the bar really low.
Depends a little on circumstance as well. My current book seems to fail the reverse bechdel test. I use a close third person perspective, my protagonist is a woman and we don't see anything she isn't there for. And when she is in a scene with men, they tend to talk to her. She does overhear one conversation men are having but it involves women. No man appears in more than three chapters and it's rare for her to be in a scene talking with more than one man. She has male friends but her closest friends are women and her two fellow mage apprentices and teacher are women too. So I could see how a close third person perspective can make it harder to pass the bechdel test for a male protagonist, yet you could still have strong female characters. I have not read The Witcher, but if you look at the series from geralt's perspective alone, it might fail the bechdel test despite having a lot of great women who have nuance to them.
In general, I wouldn't *aim* to pass the Bechdel Test in the first place, especially considering with the bar set so low it's no great accomplishment. Failing it is not necessarily a bad thing, either - some story premises are more or less incompatible with Bechdel Test. For example, a lone character, a story set in society of genderless aliens, or - as Willem pointed out - a story focused on a male protagonist, who takes part in most conversations and few or neither happens to involve two or more women at once. On the other hand, most stories feature reasonably many characters having numerous conversations involving various groups (which may or may not include the protagonist). In these stories, failing the test might signal some other underlying problem - maybe there are much fewer prominent female characters compared to males, or maybe all they talk about with each other is male protagonist's hot abs (contrasted with males talking about adventures, places to explore, food etc.). At this point, adding a conversation about weather won't help - the root problem still remains. Which creates a sort of paradox - to properly pass the Bechdel Test, your story should evolve in a way that the test passes itself. If you struggle to pass the test despite having a perfectly compatible premise, you might want to seriously reconsider the gender representation in your story. But I think Bechdel Test has most relevance in relation to stories at large, rather than individual works. If ~60% of movies passed the Bechdel Test in 2019 (112/181 per bechdeltest.com), compared to apparently ~90% movies passing Reverse Bechdel Test (according to a site mentioned on TvTropes that is now dead), it's pretty telling about the storytelling trends in the industry.
@@AlphishCreature very true It is never good to first write, then reread the whole thing, recognize that the bare minimum is not met and then while editing just add one conversation between two women that is neither about make-up nor boys, which makes you pass the test. I think this is what you were going for, right? Well thought-out character need to be created from the start or during writing (suitable for pantsers and plotters). After that you should easily pass the test to the point that it is almost laughable how low it sets the bar. If you don't pass the test, fixing it in retrospect might just be curing symptoms instead of the bigger problems that lie in your characters. In that case you might have to reconsider the story itself or the target audience you want to adress with that particular story.
I haven't thought of this in probably over a decade, but I'm reminded of the late, best-selling author Tom Wolfe's infamous answer to this question when asked in an interview: "I write my women characters exactly like I write my men characters - and then I remove all logic." This might be why he never had another best-seller after that interview (though perhaps he was just rich and retired anyway).
Jenna, this was so helpful for me! I've been writing my female character in my sequel and have just been utterly stuck. Everytime I have a moment where I just feel like I can't move forward unless something changes, your videos completely help guide me in a direction I need to hear Every.. single...time! I absolutely love how you just explain writing with a no shits given way! Like bring the reality back into it, Hello! I fear I may have been stuck with writing my FC in a stereotype and I'm so happy I found your video today! Thank you!
How I write the opposite sex: I don't focus on the genitals, because unless you're writing erotica, body structure doesn't matter. Instead, I focus on the character's mind, and feelings and shit. You know, the stuff that actually matters.
Body types can affect how we think, though, and reflect our lifestyles. Like a person can be insecure about being too fat or too short. Or being muscular shows that the person works out, and you can explore why.
As a man attempting to write a novel with mostly female characters, a Part 2 is an absolute must. Keep up the good work, your channel is as informative as it is entertaining.
As a male author, I've worked hard not to be one of "those" male authors. Things like this are definitely helpful in making sure I stay on the right track - thanks Jenna!
My wife pointed me to your videos not long ago, and I've been greatly enjoying listening to them. I'm still working my way into writing, and being able to pick out where I might be doing well versus where I can definitely improve is extremely helpful. And yes, please! I'm among those who would love to hear a part two!
8:20-8:36 I can see a girl saying that to herself in a mirror cause shes bored or shes giving herself a prep talk when going out on a date for the first time in a year
The best piece of advice I can think of is be true to the character as you see her in your head, yes get advice, yes keep all the "rules" in mind because when you know the rules and tropes and potential pitfalls you know when to break them as long as it serves the story and character truthfully. If a female character freezes in combat and becomes a "damsel" have it inform the character moving forwards and have them reflect on it or dive into their head to describe their feelings in the moment and afterwards.
You implied this a bit, but I hope in part two you mention that it's a plus when there's more than one prominent female in a longer story too. Even if your MC is male, a diverse cast of sides is usually more interesting in the long run. Like in Firefly, with the XO, the mechanic, and the... business lady, lol.
Lol im more likely to need a "how to write men", given that all of my main and secondary characters are women or nonbinary Btw the bechdel test is good, but if a book doesn't pass, that doesn't necessarily mean it's not writing women well. For example: a first person or limited third person story from the perspective of a man wouldn't pass the bechdel test by default.
Not quite. A first person or limited third person man can still observe two(+) women talking about farming or politics or nuclear physics, without being involved in the conversation or being the focus. There is no writing that can't pass the bechdel test "by default" unless there is a significant reason why women don't exist in the story (like some plague killed them all for example). Even in that extreme case however, you can't discount the use of flashbacks, so even in this most dire of cases where no living woman exist, it can still be made to pass the test. The *only* piece of fiction I can think of that wouldn't be able to pass the test by default, is if it was exclusively about a robotic society without humans, or some alien race that is sexless or reproduce some other way without a female counterpart equivalent. Feel free to think of some other "fail by default" though, I think that conversation might be interesting since the test is so very simple to pass, what limits it might have is a curious thing to think about.
@@johnmichaelchase8530 I'm a little late to this video, but i'm curious about the Bechdel test. The criteria of 2 females having a conversation about "something other than a man" is pretty vague. Is it just the typical "talking about guys" like chatty women who only want a boyfriend in life, or some this include things like....2 female investigators talking about a murder's motives at a crime scene. The subject may be a man, but the conversation isn't exactly boy talk. Thus far I haven't seen any real clarity.
@@FeartheKlown it's a bit fuzzy realistically. I am personally of the opinion that if the suspect is not known to be a man immediately it may count, but otherwise it gets a little hazy if this would count by some viewers metrics. It is to avoid "girl talk" but its more broad than that.
@@johnmichaelchase8530 that's kind of my point though. I generally favor less 'filler' conversation unless its relevant to the plot. Talking about a CEOs bad decision-making could pass or fail depending on that person's gender, but what if the CEO is left genderless on the conversation? I'm not trying to dismantle the Bechdel test, I can see its usefulness as a literary tool. But its a bit vague and can be used bluntly too. I'm just trying to get clarification.
I’ve read a book set in a male prison. There was only one female character and that was a lawyer to one of the criminals in prison. By default it can’t pass the bechdel test if you spend the entire book inside the prison, which it did.
We need part 2! Would also appreciate advice on writing children, despite usually only having small parts they tend to be written as either annoying or like tiny versions of ancient prophets.
Point no. 5: P. G. Wodehouse was absolutely brilliant at writing women when it came to this. Just had to express my love for him as a writer and give credit where it's due. His female characters are just wonderful.
Don't be afraid to give your women scars! They can still be pretty, hot whatever and still have a badass scar! She can be feminine and have a sleeve of tattoos. Another thing that resonates heavily with me about what you said is that women don't have to be super emotional! I hate hate hate it when guys talk about emotional people and it's almost always equated with women. A woman can have feelings and not be considered emotional and she doesn't have to be a robot to be strong
I’d like to see a comparison of the writing, for example a sentence written from a male character’s perspective, from a female character’s perspective, and ideally both the ‘right and wrong’ ways to write the latter - from your perspective. I watch a lot of booktube videos and the majority don’t give examples of writing, which always seems like a massive missed opportunity to me.
2:31 Well yeah. I couldn’t agree more. As a women who hates crying in front of people, talking about how i feel and getting all that “omg are you okay, i will help you” from people who only know me by name. Yeah, women being emotional is deffinetly not biologi.
Thanks. This is very helpful. How about womens dialogue? Convincing and accurate dialogue between women that is not about romance. Two warrior women on the armorers street? Two women planning the theft of potions from the witch in the woods? Anything but relationships, love, shoes, babies, or ballgowns.
I would love a part 2 to this. I love this sort of content, like those posts on tumblr where women list off all the small things every woman goes through that no one ever writes about. If you see this comment Jenna, I'd be interested in what you can tell us about how to write a character who uses her femininity as a strength, because that notion is still kind of nebulous for me
Definitely a part 2, please! I just noticed that one of my stories only passes the Bechdel Test, because my female main character speaks one sentence to a female security guard. I think this method is a bit outdated and doesn't really do much for the characters overall. Oh well.
Very useful tips, Ms. Moreci. :). I'm writing from the POV of three different female characters. Elf princess sisters, named Adria, Celestina, and Anastasia. The first two books are already uploaded to Amazon's Kindle/KDP. The first is told from Adria's POV and the second from Celestina's. The third shall be told from Anastasia's POV. The fourth, where the war between the Light and Darkness concludes, shall be told from all three POV's at different points of the book. I also watched your self-publishing live stream today with Meg Latorre. :). Keep up the good work.
6:57 I did a little bit of the opposite here in this trope. You get to see my female character get upset over my male character being abused. But it's not the only reason for the abuse tho. It's a big plot driver, sets up both the male and the female characters' character arc, and sets up the tragic ending of one book as while as the happy ending of the next.
One issue I had with writing women when I was younger was “detaching” my voice from them. It often felt like I was just writing a fantasy diary that I starred in, so I veered away from writing women for a long time. Would love to hear your thoughts on combatting this!
I wrote female protagonists for a long time for the same reasons as a guy. I was able to get out of the self-insert protagonist issue in my early 20s and now I don’t really have that issue and the amount of male and female protagonists I write are pretty even. I actually mainly write ensemble casts covering multiple POVs now. You have to be very intentional. Design the character as much as you can before you start writing. Think about she sees the world. Hell, just as an exercise, create a woman who’s the complete opposite of you in almost every way. Different perspectives, beliefs, circumstances, etc. It will force you to step outside of yourself and actually write a person. Say you’re religious. Try writing a realistic atheist. Or vice verse if you’re an atheist. Write a realistic religious character. Maybe you don’t like sports, write someone who’s a fanatic about sports and watches all the games. And so on. Writing and reading is an act of empathy. And with empathy, there shouldn’t be a perspective or life you aren’t able to imagine and realize on the page.
I love your videos. They are blunt and to the point with just enough sarcasm to drive home the points you make. I've been enjoying your critiques on writing as an aspiring writer myself. People come in a broad spectrum, and you remind people to write them like that. Even though that's a concept I try to remain cognizant of in my day-to-day life, it's helpful to listen to someone talk about such things in regards to writing just for the sake of attaching synapse chains. Even if I never get around to reading one of your books, I will always have gratitude for the utility of these videos. I honestly put your advice on par with Brian Sanderson, and he got a teaching contract after learning writing from the traditional academic standpoint. Your videos have been the Hard Knocks side of my RUclips writing education. And I also have to add that if someone hasn't giving you credit lately for everything you do for your husband while also working on your writing and these videos, that I want to compliment you on that as well. I'm sure your husband appreciates it and knows that he's lucky to have you. Thank you again, I'm going to keep listening to your videos because they are amazing food for thought.
My norm when writing any character- especially for their conversations, traits, and so on; comes directly from simply picking at the bare minimum of 2 hobbies, if they are femme, masculine, androgynous, or none/static, and finally their general way of handling things i.e. sternness, vain, de-escalation etc. I just call it the skeleton of my character. From there it's building personality, appearance, etc. One of my favorite characters that I've written was Eleanor who was a fiery coreset maker in a Victorian-themed kingdom in a fantasy world who practiced witchcraft via things such as herbal tea and remedies, tarot card readings, and creating charms to ward off or invite certain types of spirits. Pretty, smart, sharp-tongued, and very good at her work while being the centerfold for many characters as she was a sort of adoptive-mom type character to people.
I think there's a difference between being saved from a circumstance that gets the plot as a whole moving forward and making the need to save said character (I've seen female authors do this with male characters as well) the sole motivation of the MC. Sarah J Mass is a prime example of this trope being done poorly. Diana Gabaldon does a good job with this plot device in Outlander.
I am honestly very thankful for this video. I have been hesitant for years to create female characters, because i always felt like i could never properly play one in Roleplaying and represent them in a respectable manner. This video helped me greatly to avoid mispresentation in the future and to further sharpen my awareness, especially regarding unconscious sexism. A suggestion though, if there will be a part two hopefully, would be to focus more on what *actually* would be differences between men and women, rather than just "don't do this, don't do that". This is not meant as critique, what i mean is maybe more "general rules", so to say. I do believe that there are notable differences, but is it truly all biology only? most things seem simply human in what you described in the video. Are there other things women focus on, when looking at a persons appearance? Are they valuing things differently in important decisions or threatening situations? Or is it always the "it depends on the individual"-card that will be played. (Granted that can always be used :P) If anyone else has any good answers to this, i would be happy to hear them :D
Love this comment, because it would be great information. I base my characters on women I've met and observed over my life. That doesn't mean I know what they are thinking, except for my wife, who's one female. After 20 years, I can usually guess what she is thinking. The problem though, is what is needed is a panel of women, not just Jenna, because you are only going to get her view, which, I could be wrong, but I'm guessing she is somewhat left of feminist. My wife and her are completely different in most views, except for children. If I wrote characters based on my wife, I'd probably break everyone one of Jenna's ten rules.
@daora ninja here are just a few things I think would be valuable to consider when writing a female character (although this pretty much goes for male characters too) really get inside the characters head and discover what makes them tick. What are things your character values? What things does your character despises? What are your character's goals and motivations? There must something she wants, whether or not it is something physical or something like she wants to become a master of a craft or wants to become the leader of an organization or wants to save someone or something from destruction. All too often a female character gets stuck into a work of fiction as little more than the love interest of the male mc. She exists to be chased by the male and may end up loving the male character however what drove her before meeting the character? What was her life like before she appeared at that point in the story? She must have had a past right? She must have had something she was doing before right? What was her family life like? Was her only desire in life to meet the main character of the story and after that were all her needs and desires in life met? Is there nothing else that drives her? I think those are some helpful things to consider in character writing. What was this character's past and what are their hopes for the future.
Also when you asked "Are there other things women focus on when looking at a person's appearance?" All women and all people are different. There may be a few aspects of appearance that women may be more apt to pick up on then men, like for instance they might notice if someone is more fashionable than others. However, not all women are aware of fashion trends and plenty of men know how to put together a snazzy outfit. Women (and men) may look at those around them and notice who looks like they are strong or in shape. They notice attitudes. They notice senses of humor. Most women do notice if they see someone they think of as attractive, however all women are attracted to different types of things as well. Some women are attracted to larger men, some more so to slender men, some women are attracted to women and some women are attracted to more feminine women while some are attracted to more masculine women. Some women find androgyny attractive. Some women are really attracted to intelligence. Some may find someone's ignorance endearing. People tend to like different things and may not even be consciously aware of the things they like. Although many people find abs and a strong jawline attractive some people also fixate on people's lips, teeth, eyes, noses. I myself, am aware that I find more prominent noses appealing but I don't think a lot of people are even aware they may be drawn more to people with noses in certain shapes. I hope this was helpful.
@@augustawickmanart First of all, thanks for these awesome responses :D I appreciate the effort a great deal. Sadly, most of the stuff you explain and list I do know already and I think i didn't phrase my question correctly. I actually managed to come up with a good female character that I *love* playing and writing, but I basically wanted to know about areas of psychology that are distinctly "female". The last few years I have felt like both, masculinity and femininity have become so blurry to me, that I feel like they are concepts that aren't really exisitng. The more i study character creation for storytelling and writing in general, and psychology as a natural result of that, I feel like these concepts basically do not exist and it is all not masculinity or femininity, but humanity. When all important questions are not gender relevant when creating a character or gender does not need to be considered psychologically, then that leaves us with the realization that both these concepts are technically not necessary or relevant to anything. But I do know that that is not the case. Especially in childhood, gender identification is a huge topic that also helps children to understand many things in life. Largely their own gender, the gender of others and the social guidelines and expectations that come with these identifications. So what are psychological differences between men and women? Are there even any, because I do feel like the answer is "nothing" as of now, but I also don't want to leave gender identifiaction behind me as "pointless". That just doesn't feel right. .... But maybe youtube comments are not the place to discuss matters like these xD To end this on a more positive note, I really liked the many examples you gave in the second post and I will definitely use these in the future thank you very much!
6:26 I was sitting there going "I think I've had 3x as many conversations about cheese with other girls than I've had about dudes" and then you went and said cheese and I CACKLED
I would love a part 2 about writing men. As a woman it's difficult for me to put myself in their shoes. I don't want to accidentally come across as offensive or sexist. :)
Honestly, I diagree with using Bechdel Test by this way. It is important instrument to analyse culture or genre, but one story can have a good reason for failed it. For example, female soldier in culture, where it is very rare (or banned). Or survival alone in lonely island. Of course, always can find a way to pass, but it isnť always good for story.
I think she referred to it for books with a wide cast of characters where it would be applicable. Obviously a female "Castaway" or lone woman in a military unit, etc, isn't going to have the opportunity to past the Bechdel test.
@@JustinDLink They was extreme examples. I can say less extreme and obvious examples, like policewoman, who has to catch male serial killer before he kills somebody. She will speak with witness and co-workers about him, she can have very dramatic dialogue with himself in final scene. But she can't speak about movies and cheese with her friends now, because she dont have any time. And it destroy tension of story. If I remember, film version of Silence of Lambs failed Bechdel test for very similar reasons. Or story in ich form with male protagonist, who meet many interesting three dimensional and important female characters, but he wasn't a reason lisened dialogue of somebody else (or have meeting). Female characters of course have much dialogues about a lot of things, but audience don't see it, becouse protagonist not, too. Story focused on couple of cheaters, who use their sex-appels to manipulate people and they active work to she speak with males and he with females. Bachdel test is statistical instrument. If one work failed, don't worry, if practically all failed, shame on.
Surprisingly enough, I already knew all 10 tips. I been doing a TON of story lessons, building, etc. One of the best tips I could ever have was, make a role that both genders can take. Like say, whatever the protagonist does, a woman can do it and same as a man. Only difference is, if it's a man, give them man interests and if a woman, give them woman interests and such. But the main role shouldn't be limited to one gender, but can be played by both. This really got to me and got me wondering of the best movies and stories I read and seen and compared notes. Right now, my main character in a book that I am slowly writing, emphasis on the slow since I am juggling animation, drawing, etc all at the same time, to show that the main role can be played by both. But since my main is a girl, Imma add some feminine things but not enough to hinder the role, thus making it a female role only.
Okay, maybe write one who has little interest in people, is kinda an asshole and gets way to awkward when they try to open up so they just focus on other things that interest them? (Works for a female character too obviously.)
Love love love this video! Thank you for this! As a woman I'm glad someone is saying it! I'm writing a story that has a lot of interesting versatile women in it. Yes it's a cat and mouse chase kind of thing an obsessed man chasing after a woman, but what makes it so terrifying is that the woman's strength and ambition matches the villain's but of course he's always one step ahead because he's the villain. I also don't have to put down the men in the book to boost her up. She's in the mess and she's going to be the one to get herself out! Btw she's also a mom and does mom things but that doesn't define her. She has a life outside of her family too.
Thank you for the great video. So much in it helped me develop my characters! I find it weird that I have a hard time writing women despite being a woman, but maybe I was just influenced by mainstream media? At this point I'm honestly just going to give my characters traits from my friends because they are people that actually exist and are subsequently realistic
I say don't mind it too much. Create a character you like: gender is superfluous in comparaison to personnality, goals, motivation and traits. And if you're still afraid you used cliches, take extra times to think. Ask yourself: "If I switched the gender of the character, what would remain of WHO and WHAT she/he is?". If the answer is "nearly everything", you're on the good way. Of course, the character you want, and how you have him/her behave on paper are two different worlds. But i think the question is still valid
I sometimes get nervous about screwing up when writing women, so that's helpful. I wanna get it right, after all. Is good to see I'm not actually screwing up, at least not that badly.
I would love a list on writing women/girls of different ages from adolescence, teens, young adult, adult, and mature. I feel like it tends to be easier to write your own age rage than others (especially age ranges you haven’t experienced yet OR haven’t been in a very long time lol) And heck, even a guy version?
I actually disagree with the Bechdel Test being useful. A book could have 99% male characters and one of those males overhears two women talking about a house as he tries to sneak past them would pass, even though it features no female main characters or even female characters that are more than cardboard cutouts to advance the plot. It's super easy to pass and doesn't care whether or not the female characters are fleshed out.
The bechdel test does say "named women", implying that they are important to the story. But yes, it's more of a conversation/critical thinking starter than some sort of serious measurement. As in "do you really not have any important women in your story, discussing something relevant to the plot with each other?"
It’s funny to me as a guy remembering when this actually would’ve been news to me and not just something I understand. Tip for make writers struggling with women: if this list somehow isn’t enough for you, watch just about any Western plot driven animated show in the last couple years (Steven Universe, 2018 She-Ra, The Dragon Prince, Kipo, Infinity Train) If the bright and happy “all ages” approach is something you can’t get into, Infinity Train is the gritty and dark one with a sci-fi horror aesthetic and ALL its main protagonists in each season so far are incredibly well written female characters. If you still don’t get it after watching those shows, I don’t know what to tell you lol
Could u go over this same topic for the main protagonist? I a 21 year old novice writer and also enjoy playing dungeons and dragons, could you maybe go over the different reactions a woman might have than a man would in a situation?
My issue with the bechdel-test is that it's not really an indication of how well women are written but more about if they serve as protagonists. Unless he's a spy or a stalker, a male protagonist (especially 1st person perspective) simply won't overhear many conversations between women which don't include him.
What's more, the idea that they have to interact with each other (I've heard some versions of the Bechdel test suggest this) just because they're both female seems a little sexist. Now, if they are the only two females on a team of males, then I guess it's natural they'd want to talk at some point.
Jenna: “Ask a woman!!”
Female wattpad writers who’ve ironically missed all ten tips: 👁👄👁
yeah, women are as prone to write stereotypes.
I'm critiquing someone's story on Wattpad, and I'm constantly annoyed at the way she (the writer is a woman) depicts the main characters' relationship and how totally unrealiztic her female character reacts (not at all) to being raped and stuff. I think I'm getting on her nerves a bit about it. XD Another fun thing is that another story I'm critiquing is written by a man, and he has many and well rounded female characters who feel like real people with real reactions. So yeah, being man or woman doesn't automatically make you good or bad at writing women (or men). That said, I'm tired of people always acting as if everything on Wattpad is bad. That's just as bad as saying no man can write a woman right.
I have criticized a female writer and she said I am a woman so I am right and you're wrong. I was like Um, your characters are moving really fast. They just met and are already making out..
@@SysterYster I also write on Wattpad but right now I'm writing fanfiction and planning to start with my original. I was thinking to ask my readers to become a critique reader for my works. If you are willing to, can you check out my work?
@@thedemonking0013 Yeah, I hate that. But some people just can't take criticism at all. XD
But Jenna, most of us are stupid. We need a part 2.
I read that in her voice
I read that in her voice 😆
I'm half-convinced Jenna wrote this
Lol i so heard this in her voice. 🤣🤣🤣
Yeah... same... just to add (specify) "In that whiny over-nasally voice she uses to mimic complaining audience members." ;o)
Jenna: here's how to write a woman
Me, who's been a woman for 18 years now: *takes notes*
I mean to be fair, yeah, age does to an extent give you the context to assess yourself objectively. I'd probably have had trouble writing a man at 18 too because I'd know what it felt like to be me, but not necessarily have the greater context to extrapolate on new characters. Seeing those interpersonal interactions for a long time gives you a larger sample size of reactions that you just don't have as a young person. Not to say that's the exact same for you but that was my similar experience.
There's a difference between being a woman, and writing a woman. There's a difference between being a man and writing a man. The first pass at the hero character in a story tends to be strong and perfect. But it's the flaws that make the character interesting (and believable). For example the character Thomas Covenant is a leper who rapes a girl, and he's the hero. Talk about flawed! Consider that a character doesn't have to be consistent; as men don't have just one mode, so women don't. That's depth of character. Throw in some trees and buildings, add a chase scene, and you have a story.
good luck!
Especially if you are trying to write a character (of any gender) that is different from yourself. Me personally, I have difficulty writing characters that thrive on conflict, drama, and arguments. I myself don't like any of those. But different personalities and the flaws within them are part of what drives a story forward and makes it interesting. Thus....
Women don't have to be emotionless to be strong. They don't have to be humorless to be mature. They don't have to be flawless to be reliable. They don't have to refuse help to be independent. They don't have to be role models to be main characters. They don't have to talk about how subversive they are or how oppressed they feel under the patriarchy. And they don't have to know how to fight to be part of the story.
They also don't have to talk about how much they hate men every ten pages (I'm looking at you Sarah J Maas).
Women don’t have to be single to be a BA. and she doesn’t have to be in a relationship to be gentle. 😂. I always see girls in relationships becoming gentle who used to be a BA, and hard girls refusing relationships just because they’re too bad for it
When people talk about characters being emotional or non emotional, they are usually referring to some emotions over others. Fear, or sadness, panic, or hysteria, not anger nor rage. A cold blooded emotionless man who experiences no fear or anger is not a realistic character.
Amen to that
Thomas Kalbfus trained soldier/assassin?
Side note, that societal expectation of "guys are horney and willing" gets lots of guys sexually harassed, assaulted, and laughed at when they come forward.
louder for the people in the back with their ears plugged going "LALALALAALLALAA"
Albert I agree my dude
@@punchforpound2808 Men can be sexually assaulted. They often get laughed at when they say that it has happened to them (mostly because sexual assault as a whole is very stigmatized.) Case in point: Terry Crews. Now, I can't tell if you're trolling or not. If you are, I'll leave this comment for the people who actually care. If you aren't a troll, have a good day.
@@inkterp5322 Listen from around the 3 min 30 second mark. omny.fm/shows/on-point-with-alex-pierson/morgan-freeman-accused-of-sexual-harassment-inappr
@@punchforpound2808 Come forward because they've been sexually harassed or assaulted. Can you read at all?
Me, a woman, who’s main characters are all woman: ah yes. Important knowledge I must not miss out on. Pls teach me Jenna
Meanwhile, there's me, a guy whose main characters are mostly female for some reason. These videos are always fun.
@@ClarkusMarkus Same here. For some reason my characters just all end up female.
Same hereeee
I'm a female and my 2nd main character is a female i need tips lol
Magic B
I kind of prefer writing women, I don’t know why, they’re just easier to write for me
Women and supervillains
Even female writers have trouble with this because of the media they grew up with.
A lot of these don’t apply to women, though. (male gaze.. etc)
thebroadwaysimmer idk, it is possible for female writers to perpetuate sexist tropes by copying male writers. Throne of Glass springs to mind
100% true... but this is just tip of an iceberg. Many women live in the stupid conviction that they have to do something or think because this is what the archetypes in films show ... ...and books. This is terribly damaging because it often deprives them of something by their stupid beliefs.
EDIT: Sorry about my English, i'm not native speaker.
@@fayfalc21 Obviously, but these clichés are more common with female characters.
Kimi FW i was talking about the author, not the character..?
“You do not need to make your female characters reject femininity to be strong or capable.”
If there is one takeaway from this video that’s applicable to real life, LET IT BE THIS.
Hard agree!!
One of my character is a vampire assassin who wears impractical gothic Victorian-era dresses and is so much of a badass that it doesn't usually affect her combat ability. At one point someone asks why she doesn't wear more practical attire and she says "aesthetic"
Edit: Also later she's asked a similar question by a different character and she says "YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND, PUNY MORTALS!", turns into a bat, and flies away
Everything Coffee I was doing some research into fighting in ball gowns/dresses earlier, and they’re actually really good for protecting from shallow slashes and obscuring your vitals.
yep. and mothers and housewives are some of the strongest women I know. we don't get enough stories about women who are married or have children being the kickass protag :(
I'd agree with this point. But remember, a strong, capable character tends to come across as less interesting to men and women alike, depending on their age and country. To my mother, a story about a woman who saved herself was boring, while a story about a women saved by a man romantic. You can put that aside as being the old generation, but my wife, from Ukraine, feels the same way. Not all countries are as feminist as America.
Addition: bringing up periods does not automatically equal characterization. A woman can have a character arc without mentioning her menstrual cycle once!
But their special time is nothing to be a shamed of. It gives them power. Power to defeat the scorpions; the female scorpions.
@@tyrant-den884 wtf can confirm it does not
Wait, that’s a trope????
@@queenmarshmallow8013 rick and morty ref. Their answer to the Bechdel test.
@@tyrant-den884 ahhhhhh only seen the first season
I get around it by writing everyone like they were a goose that can speak English.
That's beautiful
Ok where is your book? I need to read it immediately
Is there any way for us to read it
Just to be clear, I have not actually published anything, and don't actually do this. Mostly because all of the dialogue would end with variations of the clause "with murder in their heart."
Gloria came down the stairs slowly and carefully for most part, but was unable to restrain from doing a little hop off the last one, arms spread slightly to maintain her balance, then spreading wider as she rose to her full height and broke into a light run before launching herself at the guest in her doorway.
"Gary!" she cried out as her arms clumsily wrapped around his neck. "I've missed you so much!," she hissed in his ear, with murder in her heart.
@@lnsflare1 I would read a book like that
Best tip I personally would give, don't write female characters, write good characters who happen to be female. Meaning focus first on making them a good character, and then after that's done you make them female
This...is true
I'm 60 years old, and I can tell you men and women in those 60 years have rarely acted the same. Sometimes the differences are subtle, but a story about a woman who doesn't come across as a woman wouldn't appeal to me and probably not to most people. I've met high ranking women in the military who stood tall and commanded respect in public, but were the sweetest mothers around their children, so how a person acts and how they are aren't always the same, and a person can be many things. But a female character who happens to be female is one dimensional, making for a boring story.
Me at the start of the video.
All comments are true, I use the first comment as how I approach any character but the third comment is also true that I should at the same time write a woman...I hope this video helps me.
For the most part, but that's too simplistic of a view. Men and women's experiences in society do differ somewhat and it's important to recognise that.
Okay, I think I hit most of the points but I think the trouble I have is that I don't know how to write love or attraction from either genders...thanks Jenna, I'll have to start working on point ten then.
As a dude, this is really helpful especially since my protagonist is female.
And yes I welcome a part 2. Maybe even a "how to write male characters" as well.
Check out MLP Friendship is Magic. Pretty much every kind of female character, and most of the "good" male ones, too. And the show's actually pretty good.
Seconded.
Is your book completed? If so, could I read it?
@@HighLordoftheBathroom Unfortunately it is not completed. My laptop got a virus not too long ago and that hindered the process heavily. The laptop is fine now, but I've only completed 14 chapters. Not sure how many more chapters there will be.
You can give me your email and I can send you a first draft (when it's done) if you're interested. I could use a beta reader who I've never met before who could give me a brutally honest review.
@@chandleralves698 id love to read it aswell..!
I think a part two would be delightful
Bro, how did you comment this 4 days ago?
lmao how does this say four days ago it hasnt even been out for 10 minutes yet
They’re probably on patron so they got early access to the videos since you can do that. A part two would be absolutely amazing though!
I am Eternal.
And a patron, so I get early access to the videos.
"A barely sentient Fleshlight"
Damn it, Jenna, it's 4 a.m. and I'm trying not to wake up my family laughing.
The best line of the video.
Best line i'll never get to use in any conversation ever.
#11 Don’t make a strong woman by dumbing down all the men around her. It is possible for both women and men be strong in their own right, at the same time.
#12 If you claim your woman is strong, show them doing something strong. Don’t just talk about it then all we see is a damsel in distress.
Re: #12: There's a trope for that.
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FauxActionGirl
VNightmoon I didn’t know there was an actual name to go along with this trope. Awesome! Thank you
@@dragletsofmakara1120 There's actually technically one for #11 too, but it's gender-neutral.
TBH, there's probably a trope for everything. XD
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotBall
@@VNightmoon Well Tv Tropes dosen't have everythin (they're working on it) but by defintion, their is a trope for everything. Cause you know, tropes are just what we call the building blocks of stories.
It's better if she is stronger because and with a guy and same should go the other way around
Can please we get a “How to write male characters” with Cliff? Like you could ask him questions and tell us his response? I’m a tomboy but I want to make sure that my male characters are like actual men.
I'd like to see it but maybe as a collab with a male writer instead?
Cora Maria That would probably be best. The questions might even wear him out.
Just be sure to mention the status of their boners every three sentences and you should be good to go.
Yesss id love to see this
lnsflare1 and their flaming hot abs
Why do I need this so badly even though I am a woman?
Bc female representation in mainstream media is still extremely lacking so it doesn’t give us as much variety or depth to draw from?
Alex Emy I don’t know about that one
Because us guy's wrote most of the media you've consumed.
And sometimes the stuff you read by women was about unrealistic men and the women are still tokens (looking at you you, yaoi!)
TheRealAGH I’m not saying there isn’t great female representation out there, but there’s a lot of sexist tropes that are still way too prevalent as well
Tyrant-Den Oh don’t even get me started on yaoi! Oh boi! 😂
Me, a woman who likes writing female MC's: Now this, this is beautiful.
Some people suggest "ignore character's gender/write them as male, then make them female", but I'd be careful with that. People tend to be biased about men as much as they are about women, and writing a character as a great male character then turning them into a great female character may sort of result in this "masculine-ish woman trope" (bonus penalty points if she rejects femininity).
Additionally, if you build your character as gender-neutral and then specify the gender at the end, you may miss out on some valuable gender-related experiences and dynamics. Keep in mind point #2 from the video (Society Matters). You can build a society where gender-based expectations basically don't exist, but you can also get some compelling plot points out of the society's take on genders and sexuality. If you gender-neutralise your characters and the world too eagerly, you make your storytelling toolset more limited.
What I'd suggest instead is acknowledging various unfounded biases about men and women - both societal and one's own - and remembering that people's potentials are broader than that. At the same time, not disregarding the relevance of one's biology, gender identity, sexuality, and the social context they live in - these still can shape character's experiences, roles and relationships.
It's not easy, and pretty much impossible to do perfectly - I myself have biases that I still need to consciously correct. Still, the better you get at it, the more varied your characterisation and worldbuilding becomes.
@@user-kf6yt4mn9v You seem to be addressing only the first paragraph of my original post, and it sorta sounds like that's all you read. Just please note that the original post - as well as my response right now - is longer than that, and that you can click "Read more" to see them in their full overly long glory. With that out of the way...
> "Why is everyone here obsessed with female characters daring to reject femininity."
I think it's a reaction to "Real Women Don't Wear Dresses" Trope in Aggregate. As in, that storytelling trend that whenever a woman was meant to be strong and capable, she would be presented as more stereotypically "masculine".
Quoting TvTropes: "It's not hard to spot the Unfortunate Implications: that traditionally feminine traits are worthless and women must "masculinize" themselves to be taken seriously."
I don't know whether this storytelling trend is still as strong as it used to be. However, the underlying notion - that woman needs to be more "masculine" to be treated seriously - seems to be still prevalent in many societies.
> "Oh noooo, we can't have women not [acting stereotypically feminine, basically]. Crying emoji."
Just because I don't like a certain brand of femininity-rejecting female characters, it doesn't mean I want the exact opposite.
I want neither cardboard cutout "overly feminine damsel in distress" nor cardboard cutout "strong and independent woman, totally not like these other wimpy girls".
I want more of these women in the middle, who are "feminine" in some regards and not so much in others.
Or women who embrace "femininity" while still being competent and having agency.
Or women who chose not to be "feminine" just because that's how they like it - not to set themselves apart from these "silly other women" or to rebel against stereotypes.
It's just as you said, some women are mostly "feminine", some women are mostly not and some women are somewhere in the middle. I have no issue with that.
Jenna herself in point #5 specifically mentioned that tough tomboys are fine, it's just that being strong and acting "feminine" aren't mutually exclusive (as some stories make it seem).
So please don't make it sound like people who dislike "femininity-rejecting women" trope want only stereotypically female women instead. I'm pretty sure few people are actually like that - if any at all - and most just want to see characters more nuanced than shallow "femininity-embracing" or "femininity-hating" women.
And the female characters definitely shouldn't be like "I don't need a man to get stronger", she need someone who might be a guy or a girl (better if he is a guy) as a person or as a friend and then romance if it's a guy then it would create both strong partnership and romance as need and definitely not be like"it's bad to revolve a life around a man,so don't give ultimate importance to the man"
She and the guy could be partners as main characters pursuing towards the goal together
You might use gender for unimportant points like having crush or something
So write a story like they're all male and then on the second draft, flip a coin to determine each character's sex.
@@user-ey8mj4tv2p
She could also be gay, you know.
As a robot learning about humanity, I'm thankful for learning about this "women"
I’m a female writer who mostly writes female characters as the main characters of my stories, so it’s always fun to take tips on writing every gender, male female, non-binary, etc. Love ur vids, Jenna!
Hey jenna. One about males would be great too. Someone I'm trying to write is a male who was sexually harassed and I want to know how to go about it in a possibly comforting and educating way.
@Super Studs I agree
Depends on how sexually harassed you want your character to be. Are we talking "an ugly girl kissed me" or demented catholic priest? Are we talking 16 year old boy giving in to a hot 23 year old teacher who says, "Come to my house and I'll give you an A", or a pizza boy who gets f'd out of his pizza?
Let's be real here; if a lady pizza delivery person gets f'd out of her pizza, she's gonna report it to the police as soon as she can. The guy? He's taking pictures to prove it happened when he brags to his friends.
Step one would be to establish why a guy would resist. Moral stance and commitment to another come to mind, as does he's gay and thinks women are icky...
Good luck.
@@geraldfrost4710 you act like guys can't just not be interested in every women and have to be gay to not wanna be with a women sexually how sick
@@geraldfrost4710 I'd add the point, sexual harassment doesn't have to be a come on. More broadly, it's people of the opposite sex saying or doing things that single you out BECAUSE of your sex. If you're a man, surrounded by female workers who are making your life hell b/c they don't want a dude working there, it can constitute sexual harassment.
@@cmay7429 Thank you for pointing out that varying grades of harassment are real. All the way from subtle, to Animal (from the Muppets) chasing after a young lady yelling "Woman! Woman! Woman!" (her screams and his chant fade into the background as he chases her away.)
For a real life example, I know of a woman who runs the billing department for a hospital. She has 75 women working for her, and no men. Upper management continually asks her to hire some men, and the longest any have lasted is about two weeks. Part of the problem (apparently) is men getting chased off by, um, thirsty women.
The common pattern is guys chasing gals, and guys can be dumb as rocks. But even smart guys can miss the mark; when he thinks he's flirting she thinks he's a creep. Women can make the same categories of mistakes, but more often I've seen women make subtle hints, and the hints miss the target (because a guy usually doesn't catch a hint even if dropped from a great height).
Example: I was pulling a boat onto its trailer on the ramp (to get it out of the way so I could get my boat out of the water). I wound up unexpectedly nose to nose with the lady on the bow of the boat. She was wearing about 20 square inches of bathing suit, a sun hat, and probably footwear. From five inches away she said (in a husky voice), "You have gorgeous eyes! You have the same eyes as Keanu Reeves!" It didn't sink in. Three days later I realized I'd been flirted with.
Women do not have the male gaze: Jenna, sweetheart, baby, darling... as a lesbian who frequents lgbt circles and is often outright disgusted by her peers I totally disagree. Women can be awful to one another, and it comes with the blue ribbon "but I'm not a man so this is totally okay and not creepy or dehumanizing at all :D" tag.
Ikr? It's weird how she equates "male" with "straight". Correct me if I'm mistaken, but at no point in the entire video does she appear remotely conscious of homosexuality to me.
Now I actually agree with her advice overall. I do think it's funny in the light of her final advice, though. If she had consulted just one guy during the making of this video instead of assuming that she knows everything about women simply because she is one, he could have easily pointed out the existence of lesbians to her - thereby enabling her to make an even more accurate video on how to write women ;)
@@Hydorior
She already knows lesbians exists tho, seen in multiple videos. She's pretty supportive of lgbtq+ from what I see. just sayin', before you assume she's homophobic or such.
I really, really don't wanna start anything so I'm sorry if this comment is offensive in any way(youtube arguments look EXHAUSTING to just _read_ yo), but I think that was just an honest human mistake on Jenna's part.
But I mean, what do I know, I'm just a teen who seeks all this writing advice to write fanfiction I'll never post
Also, the whole "but I'm not a man so this is totally okay and not creepy or dehumanizing at all :D" blue ribbon tag? big yikes there :(
makes me think of the male victims of abuse
The women I've known judge each other based on "sex appeal" all the time. I have no idea what Jenna was thinking on that point.
Yeah, it is even a joke since the 60s, women noticing instantly when another woman changed her hair, and men are just like "oh, I see no change at all"
The gaze is more an internal factor than an external one
Someone needs to send this video to the people who wrote the 2020 Mulan.
Thank you for pointing out the hating femininity. I've heard that a lot of female writers create characters that hate femininity. And I'm not just talking about things that associate with femininity, but feminine traits. Things that come naturally to women that are feminine such as nurturing.
Also a woman can be both feminine and tom boy.
I think part of it is that there's a lot of disagreement about what femininity even is. Where biology ends, where sociology begins, what's basic maturity, and what's just personality quirks.
What you wrote about nurturing probably falls into Jennas #1 point. Are women actually naturally better at nurturing or are we just expected and taught to be? There's definitely a lot of hormonal stuff happening around childbirth but other than that it's very cultural. The idea that women are naturally more nurturing and men less so is what leads to for example women winning custody easier even when they are horrible mothers and the father should've won, or when men are assumed to be creeps if they want to work with children. Even if there's an overall biological difference, I'm not buying that it's actually very pronounced.
Another thing, but isn't the whole definition of a tomboy that it's a masculine girl/woman? I don't think a feminine tomboy would be called a tomboy. Femininity is obviously on a scale but if it's dominating enough for the girl/woman to be called feminine, then I don't think they meet the criteria of being a tomboy. Maybe that's just me.
I have a character that's a tomboy, and I'm trying to make it clear that she appreciates feminine things such as dresses and pretty things, but she herself prefers not to wear them. I don't like women trying to belittle other women for being "girly".
@@maxyperson I don't know if you were only replying to the first post or also to what I wrote, but I'll comment anyway :p I think it's true that it would be a tomboy if she's just accepting of other people being feminine while she isn't herself, but that's also just being a decent person. There's definitely a tendency for some girls and young women to distance themselves from girly things and look down on them, but this also has to do with the fact that society as a whole looks down on girly things and they don't want to be looked down upon. Usually when they get older, they understand that they can have different tastes while not looking down on others, and hopefully also understands that society's hate towards anything girly is sexist and ridiculous. A tomboy (or any other person) that doesn't like the fact that other people are girly is just a bit of an asshole.
The problem is women aren't really better at nurturing. We are just socialized. I can't even take care of plants. Femininity isn't natural to woman. But that doesn't mean is right to make fun or hate women who act feminine. We need to respect our differences.
“Sexy is not a personality trait” 🙌🙌🙌🙌 yessss. Great tips, Jenna. I struggled with some misogynistic writing in my early years and I’ve learned a lot by strengthening the women perspective. I like hearing your thoughts on the approach! And I’m totally there with you on babies.
Tell that to Fabio... no really, dude be playing the sexy man trope for decades
@@galiciaart successfully so
Pathetic
It’s HOW they utilise their sexiness that makes a character. Catwoman, for example.
Jenna - “...and they don’t even pay rent...losers.”
Me - LOL
I’d like to add another vote for a video about writing men. There’s not as much information out there as there is about writing women.
Not much to know. We're pretty simple beings.
Retief Gregorovich that’s bc ur a dude?? ofc u know how guys work, u are one
How to write man.. 10 points to keep in mind.
1. man are simple, so we dont think about what to wear, what to eat.
2. man are logical, if there is a problem, we would find the most direct solution to that problem..
3. man dont make small talks with other people unless they are close or forced too... this is why most man have things like alone time or man cave..
4. man like to do things, this is why most man like video game, DIY and action movie..
5. man like to help others, this is why most man wont reject a request for assitance, particuarly if it involve manual labor, especially if it came from a woman..
6. man care more about function than aesthetic, this goes back to man are simple..
7. man dont think about woman and thier naughty bits all the time.
8. when man talk about woman, we tend to talk about them like an object, that is why pretty face, boobs or butts always came up when man talk about woman particularly with other man, it's just the spec of the object.. we dont mean anything bad with it, it's just how our brain works.
9. man arent picky when come to woman, while most man will have a personal standard, usually, if it has boobs and a vagina, it's good enough.. that is why man's fetishes range are so so huge..
10. man like to look at pretty woman, when man look at other beautiful woman, it doesnt mean he doesnt love his partner, its just an intinct that we have.. this is why things that man likes tend to also polulated with images of beautiful or sexy woman, this is also the main reason "sex sales".
bonus point... man's little brother can get hard for no reason at all... man's little brother is very sensitive to touch, so it doesnt take much to get it up, this is probably why people thinks man are horny all the time.. thankfully, this decrease with age...
Biggest tip I can give: men actually have shirts and like to wear them. We don’t really show off our muscles as much as Hollywood thinks we do.
Just don't make either of male or female weak or useless forever, (they may be weak from the start)other than that make them anyway you want, they can be anything depending on the story
You can see male characters have so much simplicity or complexity and women characters are like "they can be strong and don't need anyone,nothing else than that"
That itself is a huge stereotype.
And don't make women character as only becoming strong,or always serious and violent and fierce,that shouldn't be it's main aspect, or it should be it's least important aspect,and their character should have other aspects and they should be already strong,so that they shouldn't have the fierce drive to become totally independent and strong, make them bit talented,and not always should have the strong drive to become strong,because if they are not weak they don't need to be strong either
It's how male characters are
And don't create stupid stereotypes,that will make them more stupid they can be anything or have any interest or genuine love interest given with proper reasons, and that shouldn't make them weak if it's genuine ( that could be done with proper reasons, just make love by friendship and that would be simple)
So don't say like "don't make them too love the romantic interest otherwise it will make them weak, (that's bullshit, because if it's obsessesion that will make them weak, but not love, or love should be true and genuine like deeper friendship and become strong together and they both become strong and love the person or get stronger because of the person they love) "
Yes please tell me how to even though I’m a fellow woman.
Jenna, could you do some tips on writing family dynamics? Or parent-child dynamics? I really want to write about how even good parents can mess up on raising their children and how that affects the child and the parent, but it's really conplex and I think just knowing how to break this down to research/plot would be great
The best source of inspiration would probably be your own family dynamic. If (like me) you aren't particularly proud of your family, then you may want to consider having the parents be dead or something. It's a cliché, I know, but it's a cliché that still works. In a story I'm working on, the protagonist's parents will die, but she'll end up choosing a family of her own later in the story. Depending on how good you are at writing character interactions, maybe you could have your story be about the dynamics between a child and their adoptive guardian or mentor.
Big fan of how you address positive tips for writing instead of always following the trend that many RUclipsrs in this genre overdo which is the "10 reasons why your book sucks and you should quit writing" video. I like how you actually try to help writers succeed rather than list perceived negative qualities of writers for views. I find those other channels only succeed in discouraging new writers rather than helping them.
I screamed when I read the title! I'm a newbie and started writing a novel focused on two women, I really don't wanna mess this up! Thx, Jenna
Shouldn't you have life experience? 🤔
@@thesamuraiman I've got life experience being male and I can tell you that, according to people who have read my old writing about the being a guy, I'm *apparently* not using the default settings.
"write woman as if they were people" like I understand people
Jokes on you Jenna, I do not do the socializing.
"Believe it or not, most women don't try to look good for men." THANK YOU. I keep trying to explain this to my boyfriend, but he doesn't get it. He tells me I don't have to put on mascara or brush through my hair to look pretty for him, and I'm thinking, "sweet, but I want to look good for ME when I'm looking in the mirror." LOL
This is because most men only look good for women. They very rarely dress for themselves and themselves only. The concept of looking good for us is a relatively foreign concept to most guys.
But Jennaaaaaa... she should be a long-haired brunette with luscious looks and rainbow-colored eyes and is unable to choose between two boys she is in love with: her prince charming childhood best friend or the hot tsundere emo boy that just walked in to her life yesterday😟😟
Edit: Did I forget to mention she's a doormat and must always be saved?
“rainbow-coloured eyes” alone just brought me out in hives
And she can, just give her a personality too.
Heck, just go with the idea that she MADE her eyes rainbow: and you have a million awesome things you can do with that.
Tyrant-Den contact lenses, birth defect!
I laughed so hard at this. 😂😂😂
Every Wattpad love story in almost any genre 😂😂😂
On behalf of the male gender, I thank you. You should do a part 2 and one on "How to Write Men."
I mostly agree with you. However, just passing the Bechdel-test is by no means enough in my opinion. There are exceptions like Esmeralda from Disney's "hunchback of notre-dame" (who is sort of the only woman in the movie, except for the mother that dies in the beginning), but just aiming to pass the Bechdel-test sets the bar really low.
Depends a little on circumstance as well. My current book seems to fail the reverse bechdel test. I use a close third person perspective, my protagonist is a woman and we don't see anything she isn't there for. And when she is in a scene with men, they tend to talk to her. She does overhear one conversation men are having but it involves women.
No man appears in more than three chapters and it's rare for her to be in a scene talking with more than one man. She has male friends but her closest friends are women and her two fellow mage apprentices and teacher are women too.
So I could see how a close third person perspective can make it harder to pass the bechdel test for a male protagonist, yet you could still have strong female characters. I have not read The Witcher, but if you look at the series from geralt's perspective alone, it might fail the bechdel test despite having a lot of great women who have nuance to them.
In general, I wouldn't *aim* to pass the Bechdel Test in the first place, especially considering with the bar set so low it's no great accomplishment.
Failing it is not necessarily a bad thing, either - some story premises are more or less incompatible with Bechdel Test. For example, a lone character, a story set in society of genderless aliens, or - as Willem pointed out - a story focused on a male protagonist, who takes part in most conversations and few or neither happens to involve two or more women at once.
On the other hand, most stories feature reasonably many characters having numerous conversations involving various groups (which may or may not include the protagonist). In these stories, failing the test might signal some other underlying problem - maybe there are much fewer prominent female characters compared to males, or maybe all they talk about with each other is male protagonist's hot abs (contrasted with males talking about adventures, places to explore, food etc.).
At this point, adding a conversation about weather won't help - the root problem still remains. Which creates a sort of paradox - to properly pass the Bechdel Test, your story should evolve in a way that the test passes itself. If you struggle to pass the test despite having a perfectly compatible premise, you might want to seriously reconsider the gender representation in your story.
But I think Bechdel Test has most relevance in relation to stories at large, rather than individual works. If ~60% of movies passed the Bechdel Test in 2019 (112/181 per bechdeltest.com), compared to apparently ~90% movies passing Reverse Bechdel Test (according to a site mentioned on TvTropes that is now dead), it's pretty telling about the storytelling trends in the industry.
@@AlphishCreature very true
It is never good to first write, then reread the whole thing, recognize that the bare minimum is not met and then while editing just add one conversation between two women that is neither about make-up nor boys, which makes you pass the test. I think this is what you were going for, right?
Well thought-out character need to be created from the start or during writing (suitable for pantsers and plotters). After that you should easily pass the test to the point that it is almost laughable how low it sets the bar. If you don't pass the test, fixing it in retrospect might just be curing symptoms instead of the bigger problems that lie in your characters. In that case you might have to reconsider the story itself or the target audience you want to adress with that particular story.
I haven't thought of this in probably over a decade, but I'm reminded of the late, best-selling author Tom Wolfe's infamous answer to this question when asked in an interview: "I write my women characters exactly like I write my men characters - and then I remove all logic." This might be why he never had another best-seller after that interview (though perhaps he was just rich and retired anyway).
I would love a part 2! I've been noodling about the dialog I need for woman woman conversations, and I'd bet that would be in part 2!
“It’s not biology.” My God what an astonishingly diplomatic way to say “don’t be misogynistic.”
Jenna, this was so helpful for me! I've been writing my female character in my sequel and have just been utterly stuck. Everytime I have a moment where I just feel like I can't move forward unless something changes, your videos completely help guide me in a direction I need to hear Every.. single...time!
I absolutely love how you just explain writing with a no shits given way! Like bring the reality back into it, Hello!
I fear I may have been stuck with writing my FC in a stereotype and I'm so happy I found your video today!
Thank you!
How I write the opposite sex:
I don't focus on the genitals, because unless you're writing erotica, body structure doesn't matter. Instead, I focus on the character's mind, and feelings and shit. You know, the stuff that actually matters.
Body types can affect how we think, though, and reflect our lifestyles. Like a person can be insecure about being too fat or too short. Or being muscular shows that the person works out, and you can explore why.
As a man attempting to write a novel with mostly female characters, a Part 2 is an absolute must. Keep up the good work, your channel is as informative as it is entertaining.
I'm super curious what your perspective on writing men will be too. And how other women get it wrong or right.
I really needed this video because I’m a guy who’s writing a slasher novel that has more female characters than males
As a male author, I've worked hard not to be one of "those" male authors. Things like this are definitely helpful in making sure I stay on the right track - thanks Jenna!
My wife pointed me to your videos not long ago, and I've been greatly enjoying listening to them. I'm still working my way into writing, and being able to pick out where I might be doing well versus where I can definitely improve is extremely helpful.
And yes, please! I'm among those who would love to hear a part two!
But Jenna, I NEED a Part 2! AND another one on how to write Men because I am terribly insecure about my male MCs as a female author.
8:20-8:36 I can see a girl saying that to herself in a mirror cause shes bored or shes giving herself a prep talk when going out on a date for the first time in a year
It really depends on context and her personaity
I'd love a part 2. Even if I think I know what I'm doing, I always like to learn how I'm accidentally writing characters poorly.
The best piece of advice I can think of is be true to the character as you see her in your head, yes get advice, yes keep all the "rules" in mind because when you know the rules and tropes and potential pitfalls you know when to break them as long as it serves the story and character truthfully. If a female character freezes in combat and becomes a "damsel" have it inform the character moving forwards and have them reflect on it or dive into their head to describe their feelings in the moment and afterwards.
You implied this a bit, but I hope in part two you mention that it's a plus when there's more than one prominent female in a longer story too. Even if your MC is male, a diverse cast of sides is usually more interesting in the long run.
Like in Firefly, with the XO, the mechanic, and the... business lady, lol.
I would absolutely love a part 2. The more I know, the better. Thanks for showing us the pitfalls in a delightfully digestible manner. Rock on!
Even though I am a woman, yes please part two would be appreciated.
Lol im more likely to need a "how to write men", given that all of my main and secondary characters are women or nonbinary
Btw the bechdel test is good, but if a book doesn't pass, that doesn't necessarily mean it's not writing women well. For example: a first person or limited third person story from the perspective of a man wouldn't pass the bechdel test by default.
Not quite. A first person or limited third person man can still observe two(+) women talking about farming or politics or nuclear physics, without being involved in the conversation or being the focus.
There is no writing that can't pass the bechdel test "by default" unless there is a significant reason why women don't exist in the story (like some plague killed them all for example). Even in that extreme case however, you can't discount the use of flashbacks, so even in this most dire of cases where no living woman exist, it can still be made to pass the test.
The *only* piece of fiction I can think of that wouldn't be able to pass the test by default, is if it was exclusively about a robotic society without humans, or some alien race that is sexless or reproduce some other way without a female counterpart equivalent.
Feel free to think of some other "fail by default" though, I think that conversation might be interesting since the test is so very simple to pass, what limits it might have is a curious thing to think about.
@@johnmichaelchase8530 I'm a little late to this video, but i'm curious about the Bechdel test. The criteria of 2 females having a conversation about "something other than a man" is pretty vague. Is it just the typical "talking about guys" like chatty women who only want a boyfriend in life, or some this include things like....2 female investigators talking about a murder's motives at a crime scene. The subject may be a man, but the conversation isn't exactly boy talk. Thus far I haven't seen any real clarity.
@@FeartheKlown it's a bit fuzzy realistically. I am personally of the opinion that if the suspect is not known to be a man immediately it may count, but otherwise it gets a little hazy if this would count by some viewers metrics. It is to avoid "girl talk" but its more broad than that.
@@johnmichaelchase8530 that's kind of my point though. I generally favor less 'filler' conversation unless its relevant to the plot. Talking about a CEOs bad decision-making could pass or fail depending on that person's gender, but what if the CEO is left genderless on the conversation?
I'm not trying to dismantle the Bechdel test, I can see its usefulness as a literary tool. But its a bit vague and can be used bluntly too. I'm just trying to get clarification.
I’ve read a book set in a male prison. There was only one female character and that was a lawyer to one of the criminals in prison.
By default it can’t pass the bechdel test if you spend the entire book inside the prison, which it did.
We need part 2! Would also appreciate advice on writing children, despite usually only having small parts they tend to be written as either annoying or like tiny versions of ancient prophets.
Point no. 5: P. G. Wodehouse was absolutely brilliant at writing women when it came to this. Just had to express my love for him as a writer and give credit where it's due. His female characters are just wonderful.
Don't be afraid to give your women scars! They can still be pretty, hot whatever and still have a badass scar! She can be feminine and have a sleeve of tattoos. Another thing that resonates heavily with me about what you said is that women don't have to be super emotional! I hate hate hate it when guys talk about emotional people and it's almost always equated with women. A woman can have feelings and not be considered emotional and she doesn't have to be a robot to be strong
We need a part 2, this cardboard cut female characters need to be buried into the ground and never seen again
I’d like to see a comparison of the writing, for example a sentence written from a male character’s perspective, from a female character’s perspective, and ideally both the ‘right and wrong’ ways to write the latter - from your perspective. I watch a lot of booktube videos and the majority don’t give examples of writing, which always seems like a massive missed opportunity to me.
2:31
Well yeah. I couldn’t agree more. As a women who hates crying in front of people, talking about how i feel and getting all that “omg are you okay, i will help you” from people who only know me by name. Yeah, women being emotional is deffinetly not biologi.
Please make a part 2!! We need men to know how to write us!!!
Thanks. This is very helpful.
How about womens dialogue? Convincing and accurate dialogue between women that is not about romance. Two warrior women on the armorers street? Two women planning the theft of potions from the witch in the woods?
Anything but relationships, love, shoes, babies, or ballgowns.
Yes, please give us more tips about how to write women. You could even break down the common tropes and how to subvert them.
I would love a part 2 to this. I love this sort of content, like those posts on tumblr where women list off all the small things every woman goes through that no one ever writes about. If you see this comment Jenna, I'd be interested in what you can tell us about how to write a character who uses her femininity as a strength, because that notion is still kind of nebulous for me
Definitely a part 2, please!
I just noticed that one of my stories only passes the Bechdel Test, because my female main character speaks one sentence to a female security guard. I think this method is a bit outdated and doesn't really do much for the characters overall.
Oh well.
A part two would be awesome! I had a good laugh, and this video helped me know what I really should not do when writing female characters!
Very useful tips, Ms. Moreci. :). I'm writing from the POV of three different female characters. Elf princess sisters, named Adria, Celestina, and Anastasia. The first two books are already uploaded to Amazon's Kindle/KDP. The first is told from Adria's POV and the second from Celestina's. The third shall be told from Anastasia's POV. The fourth, where the war between the Light and Darkness concludes, shall be told from all three POV's at different points of the book. I also watched your self-publishing live stream today with Meg Latorre. :). Keep up the good work.
6:57 I did a little bit of the opposite here in this trope. You get to see my female character get upset over my male character being abused. But it's not the only reason for the abuse tho. It's a big plot driver, sets up both the male and the female characters' character arc, and sets up the tragic ending of one book as while as the happy ending of the next.
One issue I had with writing women when I was younger was “detaching” my voice from them. It often felt like I was just writing a fantasy diary that I starred in, so I veered away from writing women for a long time. Would love to hear your thoughts on combatting this!
I wrote female protagonists for a long time for the same reasons as a guy. I was able to get out of the self-insert protagonist issue in my early 20s and now I don’t really have that issue and the amount of male and female protagonists I write are pretty even. I actually mainly write ensemble casts covering multiple POVs now.
You have to be very intentional. Design the character as much as you can before you start writing. Think about she sees the world. Hell, just as an exercise, create a woman who’s the complete opposite of you in almost every way. Different perspectives, beliefs, circumstances, etc. It will force you to step outside of yourself and actually write a person.
Say you’re religious. Try writing a realistic atheist. Or vice verse if you’re an atheist. Write a realistic religious character.
Maybe you don’t like sports, write someone who’s a fanatic about sports and watches all the games.
And so on. Writing and reading is an act of empathy. And with empathy, there shouldn’t be a perspective or life you aren’t able to imagine and realize on the page.
I love your videos. They are blunt and to the point with just enough sarcasm to drive home the points you make. I've been enjoying your critiques on writing as an aspiring writer myself. People come in a broad spectrum, and you remind people to write them like that. Even though that's a concept I try to remain cognizant of in my day-to-day life, it's helpful to listen to someone talk about such things in regards to writing just for the sake of attaching synapse chains. Even if I never get around to reading one of your books, I will always have gratitude for the utility of these videos. I honestly put your advice on par with Brian Sanderson, and he got a teaching contract after learning writing from the traditional academic standpoint. Your videos have been the Hard Knocks side of my RUclips writing education. And I also have to add that if someone hasn't giving you credit lately for everything you do for your husband while also working on your writing and these videos, that I want to compliment you on that as well. I'm sure your husband appreciates it and knows that he's lucky to have you. Thank you again, I'm going to keep listening to your videos because they are amazing food for thought.
My norm when writing any character- especially for their conversations, traits, and so on; comes directly from simply picking at the bare minimum of 2 hobbies, if they are femme, masculine, androgynous, or none/static, and finally their general way of handling things i.e. sternness, vain, de-escalation etc. I just call it the skeleton of my character. From there it's building personality, appearance, etc.
One of my favorite characters that I've written was Eleanor who was a fiery coreset maker in a Victorian-themed kingdom in a fantasy world who practiced witchcraft via things such as herbal tea and remedies, tarot card readings, and creating charms to ward off or invite certain types of spirits. Pretty, smart, sharp-tongued, and very good at her work while being the centerfold for many characters as she was a sort of adoptive-mom type character to people.
Definitely would love a part two. My MC is female and I'm worried about some of these pitfalls. Thanks for your awesome channel!
I think there's a difference between being saved from a circumstance that gets the plot as a whole moving forward and making the need to save said character (I've seen female authors do this with male characters as well) the sole motivation of the MC.
Sarah J Mass is a prime example of this trope being done poorly. Diana Gabaldon does a good job with this plot device in Outlander.
I'd love to see a part 2 🥰 Looking forward to your release! I preordered the ebook and can't wait to read it!
I am honestly very thankful for this video. I have been hesitant for years to create female characters, because i always felt like i could never properly play one in Roleplaying and represent them in a respectable manner. This video helped me greatly to avoid mispresentation in the future and to further sharpen my awareness, especially regarding unconscious sexism.
A suggestion though, if there will be a part two hopefully, would be to focus more on what *actually* would be differences between men and women, rather than just "don't do this, don't do that".
This is not meant as critique, what i mean is maybe more "general rules", so to say. I do believe that there are notable differences, but is it truly all biology only? most things seem simply human in what you described in the video.
Are there other things women focus on, when looking at a persons appearance? Are they valuing things differently in important decisions or threatening situations? Or is it always the "it depends on the individual"-card that will be played. (Granted that can always be used :P)
If anyone else has any good answers to this, i would be happy to hear them :D
Love this comment, because it would be great information. I base my characters on women I've met and observed over my life. That doesn't mean I know what they are thinking, except for my wife, who's one female. After 20 years, I can usually guess what she is thinking. The problem though, is what is needed is a panel of women, not just Jenna, because you are only going to get her view, which, I could be wrong, but I'm guessing she is somewhat left of feminist. My wife and her are completely different in most views, except for children. If I wrote characters based on my wife, I'd probably break everyone one of Jenna's ten rules.
@daora ninja here are just a few things I think would be valuable to consider when writing a female character (although this pretty much goes for male characters too) really get inside the characters head and discover what makes them tick. What are things your character values? What things does your character despises? What are your character's goals and motivations? There must something she wants, whether or not it is something physical or something like she wants to become a master of a craft or wants to become the leader of an organization or wants to save someone or something from destruction.
All too often a female character gets stuck into a work of fiction as little more than the love interest of the male mc. She exists to be chased by the male and may end up loving the male character however what drove her before meeting the character? What was her life like before she appeared at that point in the story? She must have had a past right? She must have had something she was doing before right? What was her family life like? Was her only desire in life to meet the main character of the story and after that were all her needs and desires in life met? Is there nothing else that drives her? I think those are some helpful things to consider in character writing. What was this character's past and what are their hopes for the future.
Also when you asked "Are there other things women focus on when looking at a person's appearance?" All women and all people are different. There may be a few aspects of appearance that women may be more apt to pick up on then men, like for instance they might notice if someone is more fashionable than others. However, not all women are aware of fashion trends and plenty of men know how to put together a snazzy outfit.
Women (and men) may look at those around them and notice who looks like they are strong or in shape. They notice attitudes. They notice senses of humor.
Most women do notice if they see someone they think of as attractive, however all women are attracted to different types of things as well. Some women are attracted to larger men, some more so to slender men, some women are attracted to women and some women are attracted to more feminine women while some are attracted to more masculine women. Some women find androgyny attractive. Some women are really attracted to intelligence. Some may find someone's ignorance endearing.
People tend to like different things and may not even be consciously aware of the things they like. Although many people find abs and a strong jawline attractive some people also fixate on people's lips, teeth, eyes, noses. I myself, am aware that I find more prominent noses appealing but I don't think a lot of people are even aware they may be drawn more to people with noses in certain shapes.
I hope this was helpful.
@@augustawickmanart First of all, thanks for these awesome responses :D I appreciate the effort a great deal.
Sadly, most of the stuff you explain and list I do know already and I think i didn't phrase my question correctly. I actually managed to come up with a good female character that I *love* playing and writing, but I basically wanted to know about areas of psychology that are distinctly "female". The last few years I have felt like both, masculinity and femininity have become so blurry to me, that I feel like they are concepts that aren't really exisitng. The more i study character creation for storytelling and writing in general, and psychology as a natural result of that, I feel like these concepts basically do not exist and it is all not masculinity or femininity, but humanity. When all important questions are not gender relevant when creating a character or gender does not need to be considered psychologically, then that leaves us with the realization that both these concepts are technically not necessary or relevant to anything.
But I do know that that is not the case. Especially in childhood, gender identification is a huge topic that also helps children to understand many things in life. Largely their own gender, the gender of others and the social guidelines and expectations that come with these identifications.
So what are psychological differences between men and women? Are there even any, because I do feel like the answer is "nothing" as of now, but I also don't want to leave gender identifiaction behind me as "pointless". That just doesn't feel right.
.... But maybe youtube comments are not the place to discuss matters like these xD
To end this on a more positive note, I really liked the many examples you gave in the second post and I will definitely use these in the future thank you very much!
I love how Jenna just doesn't give a fuck and tells people straight up. It's great. 🤣
“I love sexy women”
*sighs gayly* same
6:26 I was sitting there going "I think I've had 3x as many conversations about cheese with other girls than I've had about dudes" and then you went and said cheese and I CACKLED
I would love a part 2 about writing men. As a woman it's difficult for me to put myself in their shoes. I don't want to accidentally come across as offensive or sexist. :)
teacup humans is my new favorite phrase
Honestly, I diagree with using Bechdel Test by this way. It is important instrument to analyse culture or genre, but one story can have a good reason for failed it. For example, female soldier in culture, where it is very rare (or banned). Or survival alone in lonely island. Of course, always can find a way to pass, but it isnť always good for story.
I think she referred to it for books with a wide cast of characters where it would be applicable. Obviously a female "Castaway" or lone woman in a military unit, etc, isn't going to have the opportunity to past the Bechdel test.
@@JustinDLink They was extreme examples. I can say less extreme and obvious examples, like policewoman, who has to catch male serial killer before he kills somebody. She will speak with witness and co-workers about him, she can have very dramatic dialogue with himself in final scene. But she can't speak about movies and cheese with her friends now, because she dont have any time. And it destroy tension of story. If I remember, film version of Silence of Lambs failed Bechdel test for very similar reasons.
Or story in ich form with male protagonist, who meet many interesting three dimensional and important female characters, but he wasn't a reason lisened dialogue of somebody else (or have meeting). Female characters of course have much dialogues about a lot of things, but audience don't see it, becouse protagonist not, too.
Story focused on couple of cheaters, who use their sex-appels to manipulate people and they active work to she speak with males and he with females.
Bachdel test is statistical instrument. If one work failed, don't worry, if practically all failed, shame on.
Surprisingly enough, I already knew all 10 tips. I been doing a TON of story lessons, building, etc. One of the best tips I could ever have was, make a role that both genders can take. Like say, whatever the protagonist does, a woman can do it and same as a man. Only difference is, if it's a man, give them man interests and if a woman, give them woman interests and such. But the main role shouldn't be limited to one gender, but can be played by both. This really got to me and got me wondering of the best movies and stories I read and seen and compared notes. Right now, my main character in a book that I am slowly writing, emphasis on the slow since I am juggling animation, drawing, etc all at the same time, to show that the main role can be played by both. But since my main is a girl, Imma add some feminine things but not enough to hinder the role, thus making it a female role only.
Man, as a girl who writes I have the opposite problem: I don't know how to write MEN. All my male characters are just sweet himbos. Please help
Okay, maybe write one who has little interest in people, is kinda an asshole and gets way to awkward when they try to open up so they just focus on other things that interest them? (Works for a female character too obviously.)
Well, men are just as varied and unique as women. If you’re able to write all different kinds of women, then do the same for your men.
Love love love this video! Thank you for this! As a woman I'm glad someone is saying it! I'm writing a story that has a lot of interesting versatile women in it. Yes it's a cat and mouse chase kind of thing an obsessed man chasing after a woman, but what makes it so terrifying is that the woman's strength and ambition matches the villain's but of course he's always one step ahead because he's the villain. I also don't have to put down the men in the book to boost her up. She's in the mess and she's going to be the one to get herself out! Btw she's also a mom and does mom things but that doesn't define her. She has a life outside of her family too.
Thank you for the great video. So much in it helped me develop my characters! I find it weird that I have a hard time writing women despite being a woman, but maybe I was just influenced by mainstream media? At this point I'm honestly just going to give my characters traits from my friends because they are people that actually exist and are subsequently realistic
Study the people around you, and take lots of notes.
I say don't mind it too much. Create a character you like: gender is superfluous in comparaison to personnality, goals, motivation and traits. And if you're still afraid you used cliches, take extra times to think.
Ask yourself: "If I switched the gender of the character, what would remain of WHO and WHAT she/he is?". If the answer is "nearly everything", you're on the good way.
Of course, the character you want, and how you have him/her behave on paper are two different worlds. But i think the question is still valid
Oh my lord, I loved this. We need a part two just to hear our grievances spoken and shattered by our QUEEN!
I always thought you just write women like People. They have dreams, goals and fears too.
I'd love a part two to this! I'm female, but there's always something new to learn.
Just what I needed! Thanks Jenna! Every topic just hits home every week lol how do you manage to do this?
I sometimes get nervous about screwing up when writing women, so that's helpful. I wanna get it right, after all. Is good to see I'm not actually screwing up, at least not that badly.
I would love a list on writing women/girls of different ages from adolescence, teens, young adult, adult, and mature. I feel like it tends to be easier to write your own age rage than others (especially age ranges you haven’t experienced yet OR haven’t been in a very long time lol)
And heck, even a guy version?
Hermione, Korra, and Asami are my favorite female characters like ever!
I actually disagree with the Bechdel Test being useful. A book could have 99% male characters and one of those males overhears two women talking about a house as he tries to sneak past them would pass, even though it features no female main characters or even female characters that are more than cardboard cutouts to advance the plot. It's super easy to pass and doesn't care whether or not the female characters are fleshed out.
It’s more tho when u have a more mixed gendered cast i think.
The bechdel test does say "named women", implying that they are important to the story. But yes, it's more of a conversation/critical thinking starter than some sort of serious measurement. As in "do you really not have any important women in your story, discussing something relevant to the plot with each other?"
It’s funny to me as a guy remembering when this actually would’ve been news to me and not just something I understand. Tip for make writers struggling with women: if this list somehow isn’t enough for you, watch just about any Western plot driven animated show in the last couple years (Steven Universe, 2018 She-Ra, The Dragon Prince, Kipo, Infinity Train) If the bright and happy “all ages” approach is something you can’t get into, Infinity Train is the gritty and dark one with a sci-fi horror aesthetic and ALL its main protagonists in each season so far are incredibly well written female characters. If you still don’t get it after watching those shows, I don’t know what to tell you lol
How to write humans? Asking for an artificial intelligence friend...
They have emotions. I think.
I dunno I'm an elf
Could u go over this same topic for the main protagonist? I a 21 year old novice writer and also enjoy playing dungeons and dragons, could you maybe go over the different reactions a woman might have than a man would in a situation?
Whenever someone says “the male gaze” I hear “the male gays” and it gets confusing.
Made me lol xD
Yes part two! This was so helpful. Thank you :)
My issue with the bechdel-test is that it's not really an indication of how well women are written but more about if they serve as protagonists. Unless he's a spy or a stalker, a male protagonist (especially 1st person perspective) simply won't overhear many conversations between women which don't include him.
What's more, the idea that they have to interact with each other (I've heard some versions of the Bechdel test suggest this) just because they're both female seems a little sexist. Now, if they are the only two females on a team of males, then I guess it's natural they'd want to talk at some point.