@darthgorthaur258 I’m trying. I just want to make videos that will have us all discussing are favorite stories and be open to other people questions. Ty for even being here.
I think a lot about KotOR II's Dark Side playthrough, in which all the Jedi Masters are killed. Treya asks you if you're satisfied, and every answer, no matter what, amounts to no, it isnt enough
I think what's also very interesting is when you beat the game and Traya tells you everything - she is very honest about her journey. And she consistently tells you 'not to be' her. It's like she is completely contradicting a lot of her previous lessons and even acknowledges her 'turn' to the dark side. I can't play that game enough.
Grey Jedi are just the self insert position for people who want OPAF RPG characters who don't have to follow any of the canon rules or actual logic of the setting. There is only balance when there are no people using the dark side.
This is the view of the force I will never tire of defending. The Dark Side isn’t the “offensive power up” side of the force. It is entropy. It is death. It will consume everything it touches and corrupt it. If we talk about lore figures. Revan was a force anomaly and is often revered as a near godlike being. Anakin was the chosen one of prophecy. Balance in the force = suppression of the Dark Sides influence.
What about Kyle Katarn? His entire Philosophy centered around neither side of the Force truly being evil. But the individual who use them for personal gain and he was proven right thanks to Jaden Corr. Dude threw Force Lightning like he was freakin Raiden, but remained a Jedi through and through.
Personally I don’t think there is anything wrong with his philosophical view of force abilities. And it’s not like he was a dark sider. And I don’t ever remember him “falling”. But the philosophy of the dark side doesn’t make sense imo, especially with Kyle. Perhaps the abilities are not dark inherent but the user makes it so? Just thinking out-loud.
@@LordDagovere He actually almost fell to the dark side in mysteries of the sith side game. That is why he cut himself from the force in Jedi Outcast's beginning levels
@@LordDagovereI feel like ones headspace when using these abilities has something to do with it? Didn’t Plo Koon (the mad lad) make a sort of light friendly equivalent to Force Lightning? Judgment something or other I think. It was orange. That’s all I remember
@@LordDagovere Kyle almost fell to the dark side in Dark Forces 2, then Mysteries of the Sith, and again in Jedi Outcast, and then his apprentice nearly succumbs to the Dark Side in Jedi Academy... maybe his philosophy on the force isn't the best one to quote.
@@chase1146 what are you talking about? You'd rather have a bunch of apathetic sorcerers who's religion mandates they have to be at the very least okay with committing evil running around than the literal Jedi? You want a bunch of powerful people more concerned with being centrist than opposing evil?
@@tenletters5889 whats evil? who gives more shape to history? the "good" who adhere to the tried and true? or those who seek to rouse beings from their stupor, and lead them to glory? to wash away the old and complacent and prune the world of dead weight.
Indeed. Also it opens the door to other possibilities, but its no good for new Star Wars (after 2010 or so), so, now only light side MUST dominate, to the point, that in new canon "balanced" characters were either retconed (Revan) or erased (Vectivious).
It is heavily implied that the consuming part is a self-fullfilling prophecy due to the emotions that cause you to tap into the dark in the first place reaching a feedback loop. It is the idea that power and the lust for it corrupts. Being gray is more about how you use the force. You dont fully surrender to it nor do you force it to obey your will. You can argue that EU Luke Skywalker or Qui-Gon Jin both follow a Gray Jedi philosophy
With all we have seen I would even say there is no such thing as the dark and light side. The force itself is neutral and only shaped into dark and light perceived by the user. I say this because the old Jedi order used to be much more militaristic and emotional and yet they never lost access to the "light side" abilities. Same for some of the Sith during the rule of two (I wish I could remember which one, was it Darth Plagueis or his master) who was ready to leave the entire "rule the universe " BS behind since he had the feeling that it was beneath his understanding of the force to care for such trivial matters, yet he kept his powers.
this is why the light side and the dark side are not actually about the force, or force abilities, but about the person and how they use the force. if they are driven by, or fueled by emotion, if they bend the force to their will, exerting it rather than channeling or unleashing it, then they are using the dark side. even if they do a quote-unquote 'light side power,' such as force valor, but they exert the force to do so, they are reinforcing and stoking their own negative emotions for greater power, and are thus using the dark side. A lightsider can use force lightning, but if he's channeling the force, rather than exerting it, if he's peacefully allowing the force to neutralize the target, preferably in a non-lethal way (as is the case with force jugdement, a version of lightning that jedi master plo koon used), then he's using the light side. being a grey jedi is not about using the full might of the force, but about a game of compromises, where one is willing to go further than the jedi, but less far than the sith. using the full measure of the force is different, and this happens when one has learned to harness and unleash the force. this way of using the force is different than the grey jedi, who think of the force as a gradient. this way of using the force has all the potential power that exerting the force can achieve, while not requiring all the mental, emotional, and physical sacrifices that must be made by dark siders. at the same time, it includes all the advantages to health of mind and body for the person using it and everyone around them that channeling the force gives to lightsiders
Weren't the first force users literally balancing their respective weakside by living on the planets side where their weak side was strongest? You know... the planet where the Sith were just one of the few clans living there?!!!
It was the moons Ashla for the light so darkened once would get back to themiddle, Bogan for the darkside for those that went too light side. I don't wuite remember if there was a Bendu for the middle ground? The planet itself woudl get distrubed if the force users weren't in balance.
The problem is mastering both is impossible, The light is a medium of sacrifice, by sacrificing self and living through the force is how you master it, The dark side is very different, To master the DS you must master fear and ego, the two counters of the light
To be fair, it's moreso that one is selflessness and one is selfishness (at least based on the mortis trilogy) which is something you can find a balance of within yourself, like many people in the world do.
Most civilizations that strived for balance or knowledge all end up the same way in Star Wars. The Je’daii order fell and mostly was due to their part of not understanding the force entirely because they lived on Tython. And the planet demanded “balance”. So they needed dark and light side practitioners and ultimately diverged from this creating the Sith and Jedi.
Dark and Light sides are a reflection of a persona, a reflection of every living being, emotion and calmness. So yes, not only a "grey jedi" is possible, is the only way. To much of everything would poison the user. To much emotion and you would be a slave of your lower desires. On the other hand, focus on the light side and you would loose your feelings, become something inhuman, like a machine. You would contemplate things on such a deep level that you would forget to act.
Windu didn’t use the dark side like other dark side users. He’d use it sparingly, and I don’t mean dooku sparingly I mean he would use it rarely but was always more untuned with the light side of the force. If I had to give a percentage of both I’d say like 90-95% light and 10-5% dark. Not a true grey Jedi. Revan was also consumed by the dark side, not fully obviously but in terms of percentages I’d say 80-85 dark and 20-15 percent light and the light would only decrease with time. Star killer is one of the weirder cases. If anything he’s more like maul. A force user who mainly uses the dark side in fights but doesn’t let the dark side consume him to much (except when he was on that trash planet lol). However maul never learnt any light side teachings whereas Galen did. I’m comparing the 2 based on how maul is in the Star Wars rebels show btw. He doesn’t come off as evil when we first meet him, in fact he gained the hesitant trust of ahsoka and kanan for like 30 minutes. Something that would not have happened had he been committed to the dark side at that point. For Galen’s percentages id say near the end he would have had MAYBE 30-40% light and the rest dark. And he may have even been able to reach the renowned 50% based on his love for Juno much like Vader’s love for his son. Btw this is all my opinion and how I see their use of the dark and light side of the force
@@kanekikai8491didn't revan go back and forth between light and dark quite a few times tho? I'd say hes much more balanced than approx 20% light haha, but maybe I'm wrong
@@PinoyPhill idk, I’m just basing it off the info I have of him XD. He very well could have more then 20% but either way the dark side consumes the light continuously so even if revan did have more then 20% initially it would have eventually gone to 20% and below (at least I think, especially with how he cared less and less about others)
I don't buy that. Vader was redeemed, Traya abandoned the dark side, Starkiller started as a Sith Acolyte and became a Jedi, it is one's choices and actions that determine the difference between good and evil. As Professor Dumbledore said: "It is our choices, Harry, that show us who we truly are, far more than our abilities."
That’s basically it tbh. A lot of people are very devoted to the idea of Revan, mace, qui-hon, Kyle Katarn, and Starkiller all being someone of the type. But I just think there is more to it than that which is why I made the video. Just my opinion of course.
@@LordDagovere A theoretical grey jedi isnt going to stop using the dark side. They're just also not going to stop using the light. Consumption is warded by both patience and willpower, or in the case of the light side, actual healing magic and meditation. The dark side having a negative effect on the body is honestly overplayed by some people, it's true that it happens to an extent, but not nearly at the rate some people seem to think. Vader and Sidious, for example, did not have their bodies warped by the dark side, at least not initially. Their bodies were warped when they were physically injured in battle by opponents, something that can easily happen to a light wielder as well. This is even the same in legends, particularly with a fellow like Malgus who seems to be in his prime until he keeps trying to block attacks with his face... But then one needs only look at people like Dooku and Baylan to realize that those who have turned to the dark are certainly not being eaten alive by it alone. Those two are still in their prime, aside from what age does to anyone. The real killer to most sith is ambition, and overconfidence. The belief that because they have power, they should always use it to get what they want. It is much easier to fall into that than climb out of it, which is why I would agree that Grey Jedi as a concept are very unlikely to stay that way for long. That said, someone who doesn't succumb to that power, by leaning into and embracing the mending and clear-headedness of the light side, and by staying true to why they decided to go grey in the first place (more tools to do good work), could very well survive the process. Its a narrative they havent explored in canon, but I would hesitate to call it impossible by any means. Also it's fiction, which of course means whatever is coolest is what's actually possible, but then I can't lore nerd about things...
I do agree that calling it impossible isn’t fair to the idea of the grey Jedi. But what we’ve seen from the movies - doesn’t give us up. We’ve only believed this idea from the EU. Which makes it harder for me to really believe.
@@LordDagovere You also have the The Father from the Clone Wars, literally embodying the balance. And as far as movies, The Return of the Jedi, it is very clear when Luke beats Vader down he is channeling the dark side, there is nothing there but pain, fear, anger, and desperation. Then he dials it back and regains composure. Balance is there, and maintainable. But power tends to corrupt
The dark side is basically like an addicting stimulent, the more you use it the more addicted you can become, but it is still part of the Force. So to use this analogy, the light side is the SAME type of drug used responsibly, for good reasons, and it is possible to use the dark side briefly without becoming corrupted. IMO the dark or light is in the person using it, decided by the user's decisions/actions, that channels the Force (as a whole) through them as either light or dark. The Force is just that, the Force, neither light nor dark. It just powers up the user. When used for dark actions, with evil intent, it becomes the dark side, and can be addictive, but it can also be fought through or used as a power boost if ready for it.
Honestly I believe that their thier are jedi who are capable of using the dark side with the light side to an extend but not like the Chosen One Anakin Skywalker take Darth Raven he for example he can use both the lights and the dark Said but not to there capabilities Correct me if I'm wrong but I saw this in another video the purple lightsaber means balance in the force someone who can use both the light side and a dark side to an extent like Mauc Winde and his ability vape
People seem to forget that the chosen one brought balance by defeating the jedi and the sith. Both had become too extreme so the force created to chosen one to bring balance. Luke created the new jedi order to followbin line with this will of the force, which is why lukes order has many jedi who use "darkside" powers without them turning, the new order serves for balance.
"For once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny." Yoda. That right there disproves all of the Grey Jedi. For a time the might find a Balance, but eventually the temptation will seduce.
Yeah im going to be honestly Yoda isnt who i would take advice from he kinda led his entire era of jedi down a path of empty light. No emotion no attachments. Thats the quickest way to make anyone numb to everything so the minute they feel any emotion they fall to it hard. This is why luke changed all this in his jedi era.
@@vladlenvolkov9034 They ended after 10000 years of prosperity. A group of Je’daii thought the dark side was superior and another thought the light was superior. It was a joint effort that ended in a hundred year war after which the Dark Jedi were exiled and started the sith empire on the sith homeworld
You cannot master both the light and the dark. One *can* be a grey jedi, but to do so willingly is to cut yourself off from the greatest strength of both sides of the force.
The issue is that people dont understand whats going on. There is only the Force. The Bendu, Ghost Anakin and Revan all just use the Force. But the Sith dont just tap into their emotions to focus their power. Even Obi-Wan has done that. Trick for a jedi is to let go when its time to let go. Like Luke defeating vader in Return of the Jedi. He only used his anger as a conduit for his power. He didn't use the dark side though... he was tempted by it. Sith cut themselves off from whatever holds them to the galaxy. Typically love. They're actually similar to Navajo skin walkers in this regard An imbalance per Lucas is not when light or dark is too much, the dark side IS the imbalance. There is a yin and yang to the force, but people misunderstand that concept too. No the dark side is in essence similar to the Japanese concept of kegare. Watch Princess Mononoke as a pretty good representation of it... complete with an arm that was tainted by hate...
The simple truth is that anikin is NOT an example of balance in the force. In a sense it could be argued he did bring balance to the force by setting into motion the breaking both the jedi and the sith, which he himself did not accomplish nor did he have any intention of doing so, leaving the force to freely balance itself through individual practitioners, but he himself never found balance... his was a REDEMPTION ARC.
the light side IS balance. that balance is the ability to not fall to the dark side-which one achieves by remaining in the light. its not a border between two lands, its a tightrope over a pit. you can attempt to dip into the darkness, but youre gonna upset your own balance and fall off the tightrope into the pit.
@@julianmcmillan2867 Who said they were perfectly aligned with the light-side? You can be balanced in a precarious way. Clearly it wasn't foolproof because there were still dark-side users popping up, often being fallen jedi themselves. That's the issue-powerful emotion topples the balance, but as living beings we are PRONE to those emotions. So it's a struggle to remain balanced, and we have to resort to extremes that don't always work in order to accomplish that.
@@itsjudemydude I'm not talking about fallen Jedi. I'm talking about the utter incompetence of the Jedi Order. I would not call dogmatism and orthodoxy "balanced". I call it fear and confusion. Dogmatism and orthodoxy are always a product of fear, a powerful tether of the Dark Side. Anakin, Bariss and Dooku might have consciously embraced the Dark Side, but the Jedi were slaves of the Dark Side for quite some time already. The Jedi of the High Republic made decisions out of fear. They taught out of fear. They resisted passion, a powerful path to the Dark Side, out of fear of the Dark Side. It took Luke Skywalker to show us what it means to service the light and practice balance. Luke's contrast to Obi Wan and Yoda shows us that the Jedi were never balanced. That, like Vader, they were slaves of fear.
In my opinion Anakin feels like he stands alone as the only true representation of balance because he never truly mastered either the light or the dark side of the force. However he was genetically extremely powerful as a conduit for both. He never is really free after Qui Gon frees him as a child he becomes controlled entirely by the light side or the dark side of the force.
I always thought Grey jedi were term for jedis, who follow the will of the force instead of the High counsel. Or that (in legends perspective) they believe you can use the light side of the force when someone use positive emotions.
This is a common misconception. He isn’t using the dark side. He is focusing on his inner darkness to allow him to combat the dark side. Not channel it.
Uh no. He used his darkness and a tech ic that uses it. If around a darksiders like sidius, he can literally harness, his darkness instead of using the darksiders.
@@bobsterclause342If Windu did used the Dark Side, then he would've fallen and became a Sith himself, so no, no matter how strong that person is. The Dark Side will find a way to corrupt you without yourself realizing it until it's too late.
The technique he uses and everything about him ever using “darkness” is all EU bs, nothing of which is canon to the main continuity like the films or the tv shows. The technique itself though does not channel the dark side, but uses the anger and ferocity of your enemy to fuel your counter attacks, it makes no sense whatsoever
Revan used both sides of the Force. Of course, he went mad... Admittedly, three hundred years of mental and physical torture may have contributed to that, causing the duality of his being to actually split his spirit in two
I mean, the Je’daii had a balance until the Rakatan came to Tython, if they strayed to the light or dark side they were exiled to Ashla and Bogan respectively to meditate until they regained balance. The old canon is much better and makes more sense than the Disney BS
I’ve actually started coming around to the idea that “grey Jedi” cannot exist. Simply because my understanding of the Force has grown to this: there is no “dark” side of the Force. The Light is the Force in balance, while the “dark” side is the Force imbalanced by people’s own attempts at controlling the Force over submitting to the will of the Force.
I dont think that was really anakin achievement of LS and DS balance. He was both of these things through his life. He was there as a trial for ashoka another lesson for her to overcome. Its like saying the grand inquistor has achieved balance. Though his essence was used two different ways. A test for kanan while also being trapped by vader and luke stumbles on him
I’d disagree. Dude was slipping down the dark path for a while and his choices led to several of his Jedi ‘brothers’ dying. He may have wanted to what’s best for the galaxy but good intentions are often used to do terrible things. Just like Anakin.
Except they DO exist. It just takes very strong will power and morality to not let the dark side consume you. Using Revan is both an unfair yet good example. He didn’t turn to the dark side until AFTER discovering the star map. Afterwards he would later be redeemed but never truly went back to being purely part of the “light” side of the force. He regained balance in both having the morality and principle of the light side while retaining his knowledge and power from the dark side. He effectively was able to use both without being consumed by the dark side or ambition thus leading him to be one of the strongest force users to ever exist.
No Revan turned to the dark after he and Malik where torchered by Vishiate after they defeated the Mandalorians and mandalor the ultimate told him a sith was using them and they went looking for him.
Here is the problem If the darkside was imbalance or fully evil It wouldn’t be apart of the force This idea the darkness consumes is wrong the moment you consider the fact power doesn’t change someone The darkside in Star Wars isn’t like say the one ring in lord of the rings where it’s unholy evil and has no place a good world Or like say dark energon from transformers prime where is not apart of the good force but rather its opposite The darkside is apart of the force this can’t be bad by default since it’s required to have balance Balance in Star Wars is good And if the light was balance and the dark was imbalance Then it wouldn’t be depicted as the dark is necessary or required to have balance You could argue to much light causes imbalance as well Hence the destruction of the Jedi for abusing the light Sith abuse the darkside and use it to get more powerful They treat it like a drug The Jedi treat the light as medicine But at the end of the day that’s the the same thing just named differently used differently and are meant for completely different parts of the individual tapping into the dark isn’t evil If you get angry sad or have any negative thoughts that’s using the darkside It only becomes bad when you willing want to hate someone want to be better then everyone because you think your superior with such a level of arrogance Much like having peace serenity and compassion for all is good If you Barry your head in such things with no means of having self value You become apathetic closed minded and arrogant In other words mastering the darkside isn’t evil since people in Star Wars have mastered ig and never did evil And you could argue some people who use the lightside are no better And not everyone who uses the darkside is evil And not everyone who uses the light is good To argue the darkside corrupts Is like saying the lightside cures When the lightside doesn’t actually cure one of such darkness it’s just the absence of not using it First if the users choice to use it to much And even if he does make you more powerful in the long run Its kinda blaming any addiction or a treatment for the person doing bad thing or being good Blame the alcohol blame the drugs Praise the medication the treatment Yet not the person who uses them They are the one who decides what they should or shouldn’t do And to much of anything is bad for you That’s the problem with it You may not say grey Jedi exits the problem is The Jedi in Star Wars are so fixated in staying in the light they have no notion in mastering the aspected that could drown them in the darkside Which in a way made them just as bad Kinda like saying stay away from poison to not be posited Instead try and expose your self to some over time getting large enough to the point you can resist it even if you use it In other words to prove something like force users using either side of the force simultaneously doesn’t exist You have to prove the darkside is evil the cause of evil That it’s a cancer that can be destroyed and not apart of the natural order or balance If the darkside is just the aspect of the force that deals in the negative emotions and could do damages if used incorrectly Does that mean it’s evil The darkside by definition will always exist So even if you killed the sith in the universe There will still be someone who uses the darkside So by that very logic balance is unattainable unless it is apart of it and people just shouldn’t abuse it anymore then the light
@@nuttproductions461 that’s incorrect The force’s will is in twined with both As represented in both canon and legends Look at the ones of mordus By your own logic the father and daughter should have killed the son and be done with it Just because you kill everyone who uses the darkness doesn’t bring about balance The Jedi think the lightside is the will or the force It’s not by itself Qui gon understands the darkness is necessary because everyone has darkness in them and it can come out at times It’s not letting that darkness take over but to be in harmony with it with the light That is what makes him the perfect Jedi He doesn’t use the darkside but he understands everyone including himself as a part inside and it will or has come out only he knows how to control himself when it does Much like how the father of mordius doesn’t kill his son or daughter but keeps them from fighting to working harmoniously Without letting the son overwhelm the daughter or vis versa A Jedi should be like the father of mordius Not the daughter so to speak In being one way or the other you cause imbalance Every protagonist in Star Wars be it Anakin luke, Ezra, starkiller, revan, the Jedi exile, your character in Jedi academy Kyle katarn, yoda and even qui gon Have either all had used the darkside in some form if not a lot or have it inside them The truth of it is the key isn’t to reject your darkness but to accept it is apart of you, and it’s something that shouldn’t necessarily be embraced or control But something to temper and learn to be in harmony with it It’s only bad when you let it all get to your head The sith just don’t care about how they use the force be it light or dark They use the force to suit their needs Have you have considered a lightside user can be evil Well I think you be foolish to say they can’t be Since you can claim to be a light for everyone to hope for only to be a false savior who used the lightside but for the wrong reasons This is why most prequel Jedi some could be considered just as bad as the sith Not only that a lack of true empathy care or understanding of life To the point they reject any connections what so ever The darkside will always exist it can’t be destroyed If you kill every darkside user in the universe it doesn’t solve the problem Someone will alway use the darkside as no one is perfect Balance by default can’t happen via the destruction of people who use the darkside Since there will alway be someone who does And you can use the darkside and not be evil or commit and evil act And you can be the lightside and outright murder someone, cause the deaths of many or cause more harm many in the billions do to your actions because your definition of good isn’t objectively good In others words the darkside and lightside aren’t evil or good They are parts of the force via the ying gang principle Both will always exist and it’s in everyone Of balance is to be maintained individuals must learn or both sides to balance themselves To learn control of themselves and understand how the force works Balance by definition doesn’t mean tranquility calmness or peacefulness That’s not the definition of balance Here are the actual definitions device, especially one consisting of a rigid beam horizontally suspended by a low-friction support at its center, with identical weighing pans hung at either end, one of which holds an unknown weight while the effective weight in the other is increased by known amounts until the beam is level. A state of equilibrium or parity characterized by cancellation of all forces by equal opposing forces. The power or means to decide. "matters that fell outside the judge's balance." A state of bodily equilibrium. "thrown off balance by a gust of wind." The ability to maintain bodily equilibrium. "Gymnasts must have good balance." A harmonious or satisfying arrangement or proportion of parts or elements, as in a design. An influence or force tending to produce equilibrium; counterpoise. The difference in magnitude between opposing forces or influences. In none of those definitions does it say that balance is peaceful but 2 forces posing an equal and opposite reaction in equilibrium Which means if the light and darkside are 2 forces by definition You can’t have balance if one overtakes the other To much light would cause and imbalance The best way to look at Star Wars is this Hard times(times of imbalance) create strong men(people who have light and darkness but learn control and balancing themselves) strong men create good times(times of peace and balance) good times create weak men( people lose touch with balance using either the dark or the light to much) weak men create hard times People need to understand this The sith use any aspect of the force to their will not just the darkside Some sith even use the lightside and still do bad things Or just lightside users who are just evil people cause imbalance Where you can have someone who uses the darkside but hasn’t done any evil what so ever And being to much into one side hurts you To be honest luke Skywalker is the one who embodies the balance of the force better then anyone in Star Wars Where as anakin is the definition of imbalance Anakin as Jedi had no control of himself when he was a Jedi he couldn’t keep himself centered even used the darkside at points And as Vader he was still in the lightside and was even able to force heal some people as Vader and still cared for some people Luke is someone who used the darkside to defeat his father but didn’t let it overtake him Luke is someone the Jedi wanted him to kill Vader Sidious wanted him to kill Vader Either because the Jedi thought Vader was to dark Or Sidious who thought Vader wasn’t in the darkside enough Yet Luke spared him not because of either but because he was still his father and person Luke actually used the force in a way that is healthy In which he can have some darkness but he keeps it in check and doesn’t abuse it rather treat it with harmony with himself he can’t beat the darkness but learn to accept it and not let it get to his head all the same This is why he surprised everyone Both siduous and the Jedi were shocked Because Luke is the only Jedi since qui gon died that accepted that That’s what balance is It’s not destroying the dark it’s accepting it in not only yourself but in someone else and helping them regardless In other words to maintain balance is not about destroying the darkness but trying to live with in ourselves
@@nuttproductions461 the thing is unless you only count the force being balance as the darkside being a corruption it can only work within the 6 movies with no external material As the thing is If the force is just the force And there was a right and wrong way to use it And the terms dark and light are just based on point of view of using the force in a good or bad way Then that be different However dark and light as concepts or aspects of the force as in one side is positivity the other is negativity Both are needed for balance and it’s only bad when you have to much positive or negative That’s what Star Wars has become Using the negative side isn’t bad But when abused it is Just like how staying to positive leads to complacency the inability to see what’s wrong and improve beyond what you are now That’s what made the Jedi in most eras just not good or powerful and when confronted with darkness are paralyzed or consumed by it as they never faced such negativity before Which is why this idea of falling to the darkness is so apparent it’s because no one actually deals with it save a few Hence why people say these individuals are grey Not just because they use the darkside and light side at points But because they actually deal with both sides and learn to be better To control themselves as being exposed to darkness or letting it out for a bit isn’t bad As long as you don’t let it get to your head It’s about discipline morals, and being healthy By not accepting the darkness you are being unhealthy, instead of accepting the darkness knowing it’s apart of you,learning to temper it By rejecting it do you fall even harder Whcih is why I hate when people say the darkness is not apart of the balance Your putting yourself in greater imbalance by doing so the sith by their own doctrine just use the force for immoral and unjustified action That’s what makes the sith bad Not that they only use the darkside alone And just like how the Jedi only use the light doesn’t make them good either To put simply light and dark in Star Wars are 2 parts of the unified force And GL’s own fews on the force is there is a good and wrong way to use it But unless Star Wars ends at episode 6 Can balance be maintained Even then there is no guarantee that some one else will use the force for evil reasons It’s just a case that I am of the belief that anakin wasn’t actually a chosen one that the chosen one prophesy is fake made up by Jedi and sith But Anakin was still created by the force in response to plagues interfering with using the force to create life Anakin was a response by the force the force was out of balance and was brought back in to balance before Anakin And it will be bring back or put out of balance without Anakin That Anakin is the idea of he was talented in the force and yes he was born of the force but he wasn’t some chosen one It’s that expectation of him that is unreasonable for anyone That Anakin is a child of the force but all life at the end of the day is Anakin was sent to deal with the current sith which were above almost every Jedi As the Jedi have grown weak and lost their way He was born to respond to the imbalance at the time But if Anakin was born normal had a father but put in the same situation He be normal by force users talented that happened to be talented in the force It’s that expectation of the chosen one that makes things complicated As I am of the belief a ordinary person in the future after anakin may be called by the force to bring balance Not because they are inherently talented but because the force sees them and wants to make the best they can be to solve the current crisis To learn to be powerful enough to be considered a chosen one in all but name or expectation Actually chosen by the force itself And it’s not about killing all darkside users It’s about forgiveness toward those who lost their way And only destroying those who don’t want to be saved regardless of how hard you try and let out a hand As you can be a lightside user who acts like a messiah Like Paul atraties for example where your using the lightside but not for moral reasons Or someone trying to use the darkside but for supposedly the right reasons As power is innocent It doesn’t change someone it reveals who they are
If the dark side consumes, then wouldn't the light side fulfill? Meaing, to become a Grey Jedi, you'd need to practice both concurrently, not one, then the other.
If you using legends then yes a grey jedi can exist, with starkiller being the prime example of a force user who was able to use the dark side without fully succumbing to it, however still recieving temptation and visions attempting to lure him as seen in the novel
This is the issue. Grey Jedi never existed. Not even in legends. There is no grey Jedi code. There is no way to use the dark side without falling. Luke used the dark side in DE and fell. Revan, Malek, Traya, all users whose ideology betrayed them the moment they Tapped into it. And Starkiller did fall to the dark side. The entire half of the game is him doing Vader’s bidding as his secret apprentice using the dark side. Gameplay mechanics have deceived fans perception of how the force works.
@@LordDagovere what about Mace? I would say there is a difference between tapping into the dark side of the force and tapping into the darkness in yourself and using that too augment your abilities what say you ?
He taps into his inner darkness, not the dark side of the force. Because he is focused on the darkness in himself, he is able to send the dark side back at it’s user. He isn’t tapping into the dark side or channeling the dark side. Inner darkness is not the same as the dark side. If he did that, he would have fallen to the dark side like Anakin.
@LordDagovere you seem to be basing what I said off of the game despite me clearly stating the novel. He has a vision of the darkness and it's temptations and he has lures to the light. He was trained in the dark side from the age of 2 and escaped it, you're saying someone who was able to use the dark side can't go back to the light? He embraces his lineage as a Jedi but still uses the dark side, he doesn't fight for power or personal gain, he fights for what's right. He fought Vader using the dark side despite being donned a Jedi by Kota who himself was a master. It's possible to use the dark for good or to resist the power temptation it has but it is difficult and it took starkiller 16 years of Vader's training (borderline torture) to learn how to reject the darkness. Part of him was corrupted by it, as seen in a vision, one of his hands was the hand of his sith stalker counterpart before going back to normal. Anakin had the same lures before palpatine influenced him, same for luke and the others, but whether they fall for it is another topic.
- never said they can’t redeem or come back. Starkiller is clearly not a Jedi. He is a force user trained sith/assassin. And while Kota might be his ‘master’ I don’t think you can classify Starkiller as a Jedi even if he claims to be one. But that’s just my opinion, not fact. - I think you can easily understand that all the characters I listed fell to the dark side. Including Starkiller - my original reply is just reiterating what my video said “the more you use the dark side the more it will consume you, the more you will succumb to it”
Revan imo choose to fall to the dark side and became a sith. And depending on your head canon - he struggled with the dark side of the force and eventually was split between 2 spirits of light and dark. Baylan from Ahsoka? He’s a great concept imo because he tells Shin that she was trained as a Jedi. But they both clearly are a bit dark. I don’t think they are Jedi but they are imo more dark sided invested than the usual Jedi. Still not enough to really understand what they are yet imo.
Video reeks of "Tell us you are a padawan in the legacy of the ways of the force" without telling us you are a padawan. Lyle Katarn, Galen Marek, Mace Windu, I believe Revan, as well as these, the Bendu, Grogu, The father, Nightsister Merrin, and I think there is more, but my knowledge is not as vast as some others.
Gray Jedi Do exist...there are force sensitives that have left the order to further their abillities yet serve neither the empire nor the republic...Jolee Bindo and Qui-Gon were the most know grey jedi...
Windu was a grey jedi of sorts he used both the dark and the light side of the force, Yoda went into both sides occasionally but not as much as Windu did, during Windu's battle with Sidious he used his own form style that was a variant form of VII called Vaapad. Know more you will hmmm
No. The only formerly official gray jedi was Qui-Gon who was given the title in 1998 comic. Not because he uses the dark side but because he openly defies the Jedi council. Believe have been deceived into believing Mace is a gray Jedi because of his Vaapad technique. But in reality this technique does NOT use the dark side. In fact it brings him to the edge of the light side where Mace Windu stays and does not push passed into the realm of the dark side. I go deeply into that in the mace windu video.
@@LordDagovere Okay so I understand Qui-Gon getting the status but doesn't it also say Windu walked the line for his use of form VII because it said "having created the Vaapad variant in as a mean to address and to control his inner darkness and channel it towards productive means while making it in line with the Jedi Code." So he himself used it to channel his anger and hate towards Palpatine during his battle with him. Till of course he lost focus on what he was supposed to do and bring him in and arrest him I guess you could say that it started to turn him to the dark side because he wanted to end the life of someone who was "disarmed" So I feel if it was so that he lost control of the light side and was turning at that moment when he made the dision to kill Palpatine then and there. But that last part is my opion on that matter. Lol
@@LordDagovere yeeears later bro, he beat the Yuuzhan Vong by being in a state of perfect balance between light and dark side, which made him unusual powerful for a slight moment
I reject all thought of grey jedi. Star wars is a western movie through and though. Jedi are the purely good or evil samurai. The western scoundrels and bounty hunters are the ones who walk the line. That is their role, not the jedi or sith. The only reason we have all these comic and shows where jedi walk the line is because "lightsaber cool"
Windu taps into the dark side for his lightsaber fighting style but he has to have a lot of focus in order to not fall into the dark side. He is by no means a "master" of the dark side.
If you've heard the phrase "jack of all trades, master of none" then that should explain why true grey jedi are so rare. You need to be that one in a billion to strike that perfect balance, but your skill set of either side will never truly be complete because you've dipped your toe in both waters.
@@damondusklightThe Grey Jedi never existed because that concept was created by the fans who played the older Star Wars games. They didn't understand how the Force works and how they wanted the excuse to justify their actions when slaying innocents bystanders.
@@Darksidesoldier1 George Lucas has often described the relationship between the Light Side and the Dark Side of the Force in terms of balance and moral choices. The Light Side is associated with selflessness, compassion, and healing, while the Dark Side is linked to selfishness, anger, and aggression. Lucas has emphasized that the Force itself is neutral and that it is the intentions and actions of the individuals using it that determine its manifestation as light or dark. Going by HIS DESCRIPTION - there is probable reason to consider an individual who is able to use both and not fall to the stereotypes the Jedi and Sith fell into. George did not describe the Force as being good or evil, but that the choices and actions of the individual were what determined this outcome. That in itself means the Force itself is neutral, and encompasses both sides of the force while being neither. It is a parallel to Ying and Yang, the ability for a person to be both good and bad. Just as there are Morally Gray people, the argument here is there can be Gray Jedi. So what exactly did those people not understand by his description of the force? It may be built on a theory and the idea my not be written into cannon, but prior to Disney buying the franchise, George approved of many of the Fan Novels added to the lore, several including references and the concept of the Grey Jedi. So where do you think you have the right to step in place of George and say who does and does not understand his work better than him?
*Dark Jedi. That is the sole term I'll allow as a concession to the fedora bros and Starkiller fans. The concept of a Grey Jedi is stupid from a semantic aspect; but being that Jedi and Sith are completely different religions with different belief systems, a Jedi openly practicing DS abilities would be a Dark Jedi.
Yeah no, this is cap. There existed the je'daii that survived for generations living in balance between the light and the dark. I think it comes down to mostly the individual, rather than the force as a whole.
The dark side consumes. The more you use it, the more you will succumb to It. There is no balance with the dark side because all of its users obey it and driven in it.
The Dark side doesn't exist, ths light side doesn't exist. There is only the force and how you use it. Jedi channel the force through themselves allowing it to guide their hands. Sith grab the force by the throat and beat it till it serves their whims.
Lets say a nightsister would become a jedi but leave the order afterwards wouldn’t they come closest to a grey jedi considering they use dark magicks which come from the dark side of the force but it doesnt consume them
INTERJECTION!!!! WBW anakin is a force ghost and that is it. I have looked high and low and never once have I found a source that says he is anything more then that, and I have found people that worked on the ahsoka show say he is a force ghost. Him being the new mortis father while somewhat cool I guess has 0 evidence towards it.
Dude Kreia is a hypocrite. She believes that the Jedi don’t need lightsabers and rely too much on the force. Well newsflash at the end of the game she uses the force heavily, and she battles with three light sabers control by the force. Also the difference between a force user and a regular person is indeed that fact that the force user has control over the force.
![Kodak Black - Catch Fire [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A4ch-olIuZo/mqdefault.jpg)
Only a Sith deals in absolutes
yea u rite
My favorite line from any movie ever
@LordDagovere my man you truly are one of the few that really seams to understand the darkside and the sith probably.
@darthgorthaur258 I’m trying. I just want to make videos that will have us all discussing are favorite stories and be open to other people questions. Ty for even being here.
Said a Jedi, dealing in an absolute.
"Sorry, Force users, you have to choose between being an emotionally repressed monk or literally Hitler, no in-between"
I think a lot about KotOR II's Dark Side playthrough, in which all the Jedi Masters are killed. Treya asks you if you're satisfied, and every answer, no matter what, amounts to no, it isnt enough
I think what's also very interesting is when you beat the game and Traya tells you everything - she is very honest about her journey. And she consistently tells you 'not to be' her. It's like she is completely contradicting a lot of her previous lessons and even acknowledges her 'turn' to the dark side.
I can't play that game enough.
Curious, because I never had that line, perhaps my character was never too deep in the dark?
Typical Jedi and Sith Propaganda.
Grey Jedi are just the self insert position for people who want OPAF RPG characters who don't have to follow any of the canon rules or actual logic of the setting. There is only balance when there are no people using the dark side.
revan hits hit head again
This is the view of the force I will never tire of defending. The Dark Side isn’t the “offensive power up” side of the force. It is entropy. It is death. It will consume everything it touches and corrupt it.
If we talk about lore figures. Revan was a force anomaly and is often revered as a near godlike being. Anakin was the chosen one of prophecy.
Balance in the force = suppression of the Dark Sides influence.
What about Kyle Katarn? His entire Philosophy centered around neither side of the Force truly being evil. But the individual who use them for personal gain and he was proven right thanks to Jaden Corr. Dude threw Force Lightning like he was freakin Raiden, but remained a Jedi through and through.
Personally I don’t think there is anything wrong with his philosophical view of force abilities. And it’s not like he was a dark sider. And I don’t ever remember him “falling”.
But the philosophy of the dark side doesn’t make sense imo, especially with Kyle. Perhaps the abilities are not dark inherent but the user makes it so? Just thinking out-loud.
@@LordDagovere He actually almost fell to the dark side in mysteries of the sith side game. That is why he cut himself from the force in Jedi Outcast's beginning levels
@@LordDagovereI feel like ones headspace when using these abilities has something to do with it? Didn’t Plo Koon (the mad lad) make a sort of light friendly equivalent to Force Lightning?
Judgment something or other I think. It was orange. That’s all I remember
@@Mattsotheliomayes the yellow "force judgement" from the overwhelming feeling of justice not anger
@@LordDagovere Kyle almost fell to the dark side in Dark Forces 2, then Mysteries of the Sith, and again in Jedi Outcast, and then his apprentice nearly succumbs to the Dark Side in Jedi Academy... maybe his philosophy on the force isn't the best one to quote.
Meanwhile the je’daii strived for balance between light and dark for over 10 and a half thousand years
Lasting long does not mean they were good.
@@tenletters5889 was certainly better though
@@chase1146 what are you talking about? You'd rather have a bunch of apathetic sorcerers who's religion mandates they have to be at the very least okay with committing evil running around than the literal Jedi? You want a bunch of powerful people more concerned with being centrist than opposing evil?
@@tenletters5889 whats evil? who gives more shape to history? the "good" who adhere to the tried and true? or those who seek to rouse beings from their stupor, and lead them to glory? to wash away the old and complacent and prune the world of dead weight.
@@chase1146 genuinely what the hell are you yapping about? This reads like a misremembered line from an anime villain
Balancing the Light and Dark can be done it will make you strong, but you will never be able to access the most powerful abilities of each side
Indeed. Also it opens the door to other possibilities, but its no good for new Star Wars (after 2010 or so), so, now only light side MUST dominate, to the point, that in new canon "balanced" characters were either retconed (Revan) or erased (Vectivious).
Jolee Bindo says, "Bah!"
Not really, even in KOTOR. Juhani calls him a servant of the light and when you look at his morality his firmly in the light side
Yeah while he is the light he just believes that emotions shouldn't be turned away or afraid of
Windu - bro literally made a name doing so
It is heavily implied that the consuming part is a self-fullfilling prophecy due to the emotions that cause you to tap into the dark in the first place reaching a feedback loop. It is the idea that power and the lust for it corrupts.
Being gray is more about how you use the force. You dont fully surrender to it nor do you force it to obey your will.
You can argue that EU Luke Skywalker or Qui-Gon Jin both follow a Gray Jedi philosophy
With all we have seen I would even say there is no such thing as the dark and light side. The force itself is neutral and only shaped into dark and light perceived by the user.
I say this because the old Jedi order used to be much more militaristic and emotional and yet they never lost access to the "light side" abilities. Same for some of the Sith during the rule of two (I wish I could remember which one, was it Darth Plagueis or his master) who was ready to leave the entire "rule the universe " BS behind since he had the feeling that it was beneath his understanding of the force to care for such trivial matters, yet he kept his powers.
Bro forgot about the jedii those who were in balance
Yeah, and look at what happened afterwards when half of the order tapped into the dark side. Literally caused a Great Schism between both sides.
@Darksidesoldier1 yeah because the jedi are dogmatic. Just look at what they did to revan.
@@Darksidesoldier1 they had balance but it was only broken by the rakata
@@88-32 There wasn’t the Jedi Order yet, he’s talking about the Je’daii.
@@nickcalderon2637 semantics.
this is why the light side and the dark side are not actually about the force, or force abilities, but about the person and how they use the force. if they are driven by, or fueled by emotion, if they bend the force to their will, exerting it rather than channeling or unleashing it, then they are using the dark side. even if they do a quote-unquote 'light side power,' such as force valor, but they exert the force to do so, they are reinforcing and stoking their own negative emotions for greater power, and are thus using the dark side. A lightsider can use force lightning, but if he's channeling the force, rather than exerting it, if he's peacefully allowing the force to neutralize the target, preferably in a non-lethal way (as is the case with force jugdement, a version of lightning that jedi master plo koon used), then he's using the light side. being a grey jedi is not about using the full might of the force, but about a game of compromises, where one is willing to go further than the jedi, but less far than the sith. using the full measure of the force is different, and this happens when one has learned to harness and unleash the force. this way of using the force is different than the grey jedi, who think of the force as a gradient. this way of using the force has all the potential power that exerting the force can achieve, while not requiring all the mental, emotional, and physical sacrifices that must be made by dark siders. at the same time, it includes all the advantages to health of mind and body for the person using it and everyone around them that channeling the force gives to lightsiders
Jedi Knight Jedi Academy is the best example of this. The more Dark side powers you choose. The more the game pushes you into the Dark side ending.
The Father in clone wars was balance through mastery
I was a to mention that, pretty sure he told Anakin that he could only subdued his children if he had the balance in the force
Weren't the first force users literally balancing their respective weakside by living on the planets side where their weak side was strongest?
You know... the planet where the Sith were just one of the few clans living there?!!!
Yeah they would train on both the light planet and dark planet achieving equilibrium
It was the moons Ashla for the light so darkened once would get back to themiddle, Bogan for the darkside for those that went too light side. I don't wuite remember if there was a Bendu for the middle ground? The planet itself woudl get distrubed if the force users weren't in balance.
The problem is mastering both is impossible, The light is a medium of sacrifice, by sacrificing self and living through the force is how you master it, The dark side is very different, To master the DS you must master fear and ego, the two counters of the light
To be fair, it's moreso that one is selflessness and one is selfishness (at least based on the mortis trilogy) which is something you can find a balance of within yourself, like many people in the world do.
The chosen one is truly the chosen one
Kreias canundrums were my favorite part of the game. She is so well written and probably my favorite Star Wars character.
Bendu is true balance
The one in the middle
Man don't tell that to the civilization that lasted for centuries, and perfectly balanced light and dark.
Most civilizations that strived for balance or knowledge all end up the same way in Star Wars. The Je’daii order fell and mostly was due to their part of not understanding the force entirely because they lived on Tython. And the planet demanded “balance”. So they needed dark and light side practitioners and ultimately diverged from this creating the Sith and Jedi.
Dark and Light sides are a reflection of a persona, a reflection of every living being, emotion and calmness. So yes, not only a "grey jedi" is possible, is the only way. To much of everything would poison the user. To much emotion and you would be a slave of your lower desires. On the other hand, focus on the light side and you would loose your feelings, become something inhuman, like a machine. You would contemplate things on such a deep level that you would forget to act.
Mace Windu, Revan, and Galen Marek have all entered the chat.
Windu didn’t use the dark side like other dark side users. He’d use it sparingly, and I don’t mean dooku sparingly I mean he would use it rarely but was always more untuned with the light side of the force. If I had to give a percentage of both I’d say like 90-95% light and 10-5% dark. Not a true grey Jedi. Revan was also consumed by the dark side, not fully obviously but in terms of percentages I’d say 80-85 dark and 20-15 percent light and the light would only decrease with time. Star killer is one of the weirder cases. If anything he’s more like maul. A force user who mainly uses the dark side in fights but doesn’t let the dark side consume him to much (except when he was on that trash planet lol). However maul never learnt any light side teachings whereas Galen did. I’m comparing the 2 based on how maul is in the Star Wars rebels show btw. He doesn’t come off as evil when we first meet him, in fact he gained the hesitant trust of ahsoka and kanan for like 30 minutes. Something that would not have happened had he been committed to the dark side at that point. For Galen’s percentages id say near the end he would have had MAYBE 30-40% light and the rest dark. And he may have even been able to reach the renowned 50% based on his love for Juno much like Vader’s love for his son. Btw this is all my opinion and how I see their use of the dark and light side of the force
@@kanekikai8491didn't revan go back and forth between light and dark quite a few times tho? I'd say hes much more balanced than approx 20% light haha, but maybe I'm wrong
@@PinoyPhill idk, I’m just basing it off the info I have of him XD. He very well could have more then 20% but either way the dark side consumes the light continuously so even if revan did have more then 20% initially it would have eventually gone to 20% and below (at least I think, especially with how he cared less and less about others)
Yeah Windu was an exception and not a grey Jedi, Revan was a sith not a grey Jedi and Galen Marek was not a grey Jedi either.
They all ended up on the light side of the force dude, the fact that they use the power of the Sith does not prove their greyness
I don't buy that. Vader was redeemed, Traya abandoned the dark side, Starkiller started as a Sith Acolyte and became a Jedi, it is one's choices and actions that determine the difference between good and evil. As Professor Dumbledore said: "It is our choices, Harry, that show us who we truly are, far more than our abilities."
It's true. Look how much the dark side Corrupted Dooku over time, even though he tried to remain ambivilant of it.
If you search for the light, you’ll find it. If you look for the dark, it is all that you will see.
Pfft.
I like how his argument against KOTOR essentially is just "nuh-uh."
That’s basically it tbh. A lot of people are very devoted to the idea of Revan, mace, qui-hon, Kyle Katarn, and Starkiller all being someone of the type. But I just think there is more to it than that which is why I made the video. Just my opinion of course.
Don't use game mechanics to inform lore
The Dark consumes, the Light provides. Homeostasis.
But the light RENEWS. Which is the part people keep forgetting, BALANCE
And the dark side is addition. It’s like using heroin and thinking you can just stop using it. That’s not how it works.
@@LordDagovere A theoretical grey jedi isnt going to stop using the dark side. They're just also not going to stop using the light. Consumption is warded by both patience and willpower, or in the case of the light side, actual healing magic and meditation.
The dark side having a negative effect on the body is honestly overplayed by some people, it's true that it happens to an extent, but not nearly at the rate some people seem to think.
Vader and Sidious, for example, did not have their bodies warped by the dark side, at least not initially. Their bodies were warped when they were physically injured in battle by opponents, something that can easily happen to a light wielder as well. This is even the same in legends, particularly with a fellow like Malgus who seems to be in his prime until he keeps trying to block attacks with his face...
But then one needs only look at people like Dooku and Baylan to realize that those who have turned to the dark are certainly not being eaten alive by it alone. Those two are still in their prime, aside from what age does to anyone.
The real killer to most sith is ambition, and overconfidence. The belief that because they have power, they should always use it to get what they want. It is much easier to fall into that than climb out of it, which is why I would agree that Grey Jedi as a concept are very unlikely to stay that way for long. That said, someone who doesn't succumb to that power, by leaning into and embracing the mending and clear-headedness of the light side, and by staying true to why they decided to go grey in the first place (more tools to do good work), could very well survive the process.
Its a narrative they havent explored in canon, but I would hesitate to call it impossible by any means. Also it's fiction, which of course means whatever is coolest is what's actually possible, but then I can't lore nerd about things...
I do agree that calling it impossible isn’t fair to the idea of the grey Jedi. But what we’ve seen from the movies - doesn’t give us up. We’ve only believed this idea from the EU. Which makes it harder for me to really believe.
@@LordDagovere You also have the The Father from the Clone Wars, literally embodying the balance. And as far as movies, The Return of the Jedi, it is very clear when Luke beats Vader down he is channeling the dark side, there is nothing there but pain, fear, anger, and desperation. Then he dials it back and regains composure. Balance is there, and maintainable. But power tends to corrupt
The dark side is basically like an addicting stimulent, the more you use it the more addicted you can become, but it is still part of the Force. So to use this analogy, the light side is the SAME type of drug used responsibly, for good reasons, and it is possible to use the dark side briefly without becoming corrupted.
IMO the dark or light is in the person using it, decided by the user's decisions/actions, that channels the Force (as a whole) through them as either light or dark. The Force is just that, the Force, neither light nor dark. It just powers up the user. When used for dark actions, with evil intent, it becomes the dark side, and can be addictive, but it can also be fought through or used as a power boost if ready for it.
Honestly I believe that their thier are jedi who are capable of using the dark side with the light side to an extend but not like the Chosen One Anakin Skywalker take Darth Raven he for example he can use both the lights and the dark Said but not to there capabilities
Correct me if I'm wrong but I saw this in another video the purple lightsaber means balance in the force someone who can use both the light side and a dark side to an extent like Mauc Winde and his ability vape
Jolee bindi was a grey jedi from the old republic. Grey Jedi is a bit broader than you’d think. Plus some Jedi use dark side abilities name Luke.
People seem to forget that the chosen one brought balance by defeating the jedi and the sith.
Both had become too extreme so the force created to chosen one to bring balance.
Luke created the new jedi order to followbin line with this will of the force, which is why lukes order has many jedi who use "darkside" powers without them turning, the new order serves for balance.
"For once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny." Yoda.
That right there disproves all of the Grey Jedi. For a time the might find a Balance, but eventually the temptation will seduce.
Literally in the most important movie of star wars is the most important quote.
Yeah im going to be honestly Yoda isnt who i would take advice from he kinda led his entire era of jedi down a path of empty light. No emotion no attachments. Thats the quickest way to make anyone numb to everything so the minute they feel any emotion they fall to it hard.
This is why luke changed all this in his jedi era.
The Je’daii order actually managed quite well.
And where are they now?
@@vladlenvolkov9034 They ended after 10000 years of prosperity. A group of Je’daii thought the dark side was superior and another thought the light was superior. It was a joint effort that ended in a hundred year war after which the Dark Jedi were exiled and started the sith empire on the sith homeworld
And if a whole bunch of people mastered all abilities from both sides of the force their strengths would very, they wouldn’t be equals
The dark side poison the Force. The Chosen One is the cure. It has to be maintained by the Jedi afterward.
You cannot master both the light and the dark. One *can* be a grey jedi, but to do so willingly is to cut yourself off from the greatest strength of both sides of the force.
The issue is that people dont understand whats going on. There is only the Force. The Bendu, Ghost Anakin and Revan all just use the Force. But the Sith dont just tap into their emotions to focus their power. Even Obi-Wan has done that. Trick for a jedi is to let go when its time to let go. Like Luke defeating vader in Return of the Jedi. He only used his anger as a conduit for his power. He didn't use the dark side though... he was tempted by it.
Sith cut themselves off from whatever holds them to the galaxy. Typically love. They're actually similar to Navajo skin walkers in this regard
An imbalance per Lucas is not when light or dark is too much, the dark side IS the imbalance. There is a yin and yang to the force, but people misunderstand that concept too.
No the dark side is in essence similar to the Japanese concept of kegare. Watch Princess Mononoke as a pretty good representation of it... complete with an arm that was tainted by hate...
The simple truth is that anikin is NOT an example of balance in the force. In a sense it could be argued he did bring balance to the force by setting into motion the breaking both the jedi and the sith, which he himself did not accomplish nor did he have any intention of doing so, leaving the force to freely balance itself through individual practitioners, but he himself never found balance... his was a REDEMPTION ARC.
the light side IS balance. that balance is the ability to not fall to the dark side-which one achieves by remaining in the light. its not a border between two lands, its a tightrope over a pit. you can attempt to dip into the darkness, but youre gonna upset your own balance and fall off the tightrope into the pit.
So did the High Republic Jedi all succumb to the Dark Side? Because what that order taught and practiced was certainly not balance.
@@julianmcmillan2867 Who said they were perfectly aligned with the light-side? You can be balanced in a precarious way. Clearly it wasn't foolproof because there were still dark-side users popping up, often being fallen jedi themselves. That's the issue-powerful emotion topples the balance, but as living beings we are PRONE to those emotions. So it's a struggle to remain balanced, and we have to resort to extremes that don't always work in order to accomplish that.
@@itsjudemydude I'm not talking about fallen Jedi. I'm talking about the utter incompetence of the Jedi Order.
I would not call dogmatism and orthodoxy "balanced". I call it fear and confusion. Dogmatism and orthodoxy are always a product of fear, a powerful tether of the Dark Side.
Anakin, Bariss and Dooku might have consciously embraced the Dark Side, but the Jedi were slaves of the Dark Side for quite some time already.
The Jedi of the High Republic made decisions out of fear. They taught out of fear. They resisted passion, a powerful path to the Dark Side, out of fear of the Dark Side.
It took Luke Skywalker to show us what it means to service the light and practice balance. Luke's contrast to Obi Wan and Yoda shows us that the Jedi were never balanced. That, like Vader, they were slaves of fear.
Light side isnt balance lol the chosen one is balance not the light side
From my point of view, the Dark Side represents Balance in the Force.
And I like to think of those two different sides as tools yes they have the power to corrupt but that matters on the person and who can influence them
Seeing the force as a tool is an inherently dark side view
Cade Skywalker has entered the chat.
Someone already has
Palpatine
Dont blind yourself to only one side
In my opinion Anakin feels like he stands alone as the only true representation of balance because he never truly mastered either the light or the dark side of the force. However he was genetically extremely powerful as a conduit for both. He never is really free after Qui Gon frees him as a child he becomes controlled entirely by the light side or the dark side of the force.
They wouldn’t be the most powerful they would be the most deadly
Thus , going hollow is a far Better representation of of the dark side then the force
I always thought Grey jedi were term for jedis, who follow the will of the force instead of the High counsel. Or that (in legends perspective) they believe you can use the light side of the force when someone use positive emotions.
Ps. I know there is no light side of force in lucas canon, but I used the term light side because I more knowledge about legends.
Mace Windu used the dark side in the movies he uses anger only the dark side uses anger
This is a common misconception. He isn’t using the dark side. He is focusing on his inner darkness to allow him to combat the dark side. Not channel it.
Uh no.
He used his darkness and a tech ic that uses it. If around a darksiders like sidius, he can literally harness, his darkness instead of using the darksiders.
@@bobsterclause342If Windu did used the Dark Side, then he would've fallen and became a Sith himself, so no, no matter how strong that person is. The Dark Side will find a way to corrupt you without yourself realizing it until it's too late.
The technique he uses and everything about him ever using “darkness” is all EU bs, nothing of which is canon to the main continuity like the films or the tv shows.
The technique itself though does not channel the dark side, but uses the anger and ferocity of your enemy to fuel your counter attacks, it makes no sense whatsoever
Revan used both sides of the Force. Of course, he went mad... Admittedly, three hundred years of mental and physical torture may have contributed to that, causing the duality of his being to actually split his spirit in two
I say deadly instead of powerful because power comes from their training their dedication and a certain cell thingamajig are in their bodies
Ask your sith alchemist or Jedi healer about Darth Prozac… finally a balance for the force user on the go…
"I'm a master of both the light and dark" -someone in the process of falling to the dark
Ghost Anakin is a Jedi. That's the whole point.
In the comics Luke used force lightning and that is a darkside power. Luke was more powerful than everyone thinks.
I mean, the Je’daii had a balance until the Rakatan came to Tython, if they strayed to the light or dark side they were exiled to Ashla and Bogan respectively to meditate until they regained balance.
The old canon is much better and makes more sense than the Disney BS
I personally think mastering the dark doesn't mean having all it powers. Mastering the dark is being able to use it without being consumed by it.
I’ve actually started coming around to the idea that “grey Jedi” cannot exist. Simply because my understanding of the Force has grown to this: there is no “dark” side of the Force. The Light is the Force in balance, while the “dark” side is the Force imbalanced by people’s own attempts at controlling the Force over submitting to the will of the Force.
I dont think that was really anakin achievement of LS and DS balance. He was both of these things through his life. He was there as a trial for ashoka another lesson for her to overcome.
Its like saying the grand inquistor has achieved balance. Though his essence was used two different ways. A test for kanan while also being trapped by vader and luke stumbles on him
Revan
Count duku? He was a "sith" but was never changed or altered by it
I’d disagree. Dude was slipping down the dark path for a while and his choices led to several of his Jedi ‘brothers’ dying. He may have wanted to what’s best for the galaxy but good intentions are often used to do terrible things. Just like Anakin.
What are you talking about he murdered so many people
That's not how the force works!
well only the chosen one can make it balance
Yeah, I don't like the idea that Anyone can do it. I would preferred that only the Chosen one can do it.
They might be close in strength might being the key word
Except they DO exist. It just takes very strong will power and morality to not let the dark side consume you. Using Revan is both an unfair yet good example. He didn’t turn to the dark side until AFTER discovering the star map. Afterwards he would later be redeemed but never truly went back to being purely part of the “light” side of the force. He regained balance in both having the morality and principle of the light side while retaining his knowledge and power from the dark side. He effectively was able to use both without being consumed by the dark side or ambition thus leading him to be one of the strongest force users to ever exist.
No Revan turned to the dark after he and Malik where torchered by Vishiate after they defeated the Mandalorians and mandalor the ultimate told him a sith was using them and they went looking for him.
People who use both tend to pick sides as the two forces contradict one another
That's just the authors of the franchise making the lore too simple and being uncreative, we need truly Grey Jedi.
Here is the problem
If the darkside was imbalance or fully evil
It wouldn’t be apart of the force
This idea the darkness consumes is wrong the moment you consider the fact power doesn’t change someone
The darkside in Star Wars isn’t like say the one ring in lord of the rings where it’s unholy evil and has no place a good world
Or like say dark energon from transformers prime where is not apart of the good force but rather its opposite
The darkside is apart of the force this can’t be bad by default since it’s required to have balance
Balance in Star Wars is good
And if the light was balance and the dark was imbalance
Then it wouldn’t be depicted as the dark is necessary or required to have balance
You could argue to much light causes imbalance as well
Hence the destruction of the Jedi for abusing the light
Sith abuse the darkside and use it to get more powerful
They treat it like a drug
The Jedi treat the light as medicine
But at the end of the day that’s the the same thing just named differently used differently and are meant for completely different parts of the individual
tapping into the dark isn’t evil
If you get angry sad or have any negative thoughts that’s using the darkside
It only becomes bad when you willing want to hate someone want to be better then everyone because you think your superior with such a level of arrogance
Much like having peace serenity and compassion for all is good
If you Barry your head in such things with no means of having self value
You become apathetic closed minded and arrogant
In other words mastering the darkside isn’t evil since people in Star Wars have mastered ig and never did evil
And you could argue some people who use the lightside are no better
And not everyone who uses the darkside is evil
And not everyone who uses the light is good
To argue the darkside corrupts
Is like saying the lightside cures
When the lightside doesn’t actually cure one of such darkness it’s just the absence of not using it
First if the users choice to use it to much
And even if he does make you more powerful in the long run
Its kinda blaming any addiction or a treatment for the person doing bad thing or being good
Blame the alcohol blame the drugs
Praise the medication the treatment
Yet not the person who uses them
They are the one who decides what they should or shouldn’t do
And to much of anything is bad for you
That’s the problem with it
You may not say grey Jedi exits the problem is
The Jedi in Star Wars are so fixated in staying in the light they have no notion in mastering the aspected that could drown them in the darkside
Which in a way made them just as bad
Kinda like saying stay away from poison to not be posited
Instead try and expose your self to some over time getting large enough to the point you can resist it even if you use it
In other words to prove something like force users using either side of the force simultaneously doesn’t exist
You have to prove the darkside is evil the cause of evil
That it’s a cancer that can be destroyed and not apart of the natural order or balance
If the darkside is just the aspect of the force that deals in the negative emotions and could do damages if used incorrectly
Does that mean it’s evil
The darkside by definition will always exist
So even if you killed the sith in the universe
There will still be someone who uses the darkside
So by that very logic balance is unattainable unless it is apart of it and people just shouldn’t abuse it anymore then the light
That and recently with Bendu, the one in the Middle.
You cooking
I'm not reading all that so I'll nod and move along
@@nuttproductions461 that’s incorrect
The force’s will is in twined with both
As represented in both canon and legends
Look at the ones of mordus
By your own logic the father and daughter should have killed the son and be done with it
Just because you kill everyone who uses the darkness doesn’t bring about balance
The Jedi think the lightside is the will or the force
It’s not by itself
Qui gon understands the darkness is necessary because everyone has darkness in them and it can come out at times
It’s not letting that darkness take over but to be in harmony with it with the light
That is what makes him the perfect Jedi
He doesn’t use the darkside but he understands everyone including himself as a part inside and it will or has come out only he knows how to control himself when it does
Much like how the father of mordius doesn’t kill his son or daughter but keeps them from fighting to working harmoniously
Without letting the son overwhelm the daughter or vis versa
A Jedi should be like the father of mordius
Not the daughter so to speak
In being one way or the other you cause imbalance
Every protagonist in Star Wars be it Anakin luke, Ezra, starkiller, revan, the Jedi exile, your character in Jedi academy Kyle katarn, yoda and even qui gon
Have either all had used the darkside in some form if not a lot or have it inside them
The truth of it is the key isn’t to reject your darkness but to accept it is apart of you, and it’s something that shouldn’t necessarily be embraced or control
But something to temper and learn to be in harmony with it
It’s only bad when you let it all get to your head
The sith just don’t care about how they use the force be it light or dark
They use the force to suit their needs
Have you have considered a lightside user can be evil
Well I think you be foolish to say they can’t be
Since you can claim to be a light for everyone to hope for only to be a false savior who used the lightside but for the wrong reasons
This is why most prequel Jedi some could be considered just as bad as the sith
Not only that a lack of true empathy care or understanding of life
To the point they reject any connections what so ever
The darkside will always exist it can’t be destroyed
If you kill every darkside user in the universe it doesn’t solve the problem
Someone will alway use the darkside as no one is perfect
Balance by default can’t happen via the destruction of people who use the darkside
Since there will alway be someone who does
And you can use the darkside and not be evil or commit and evil act
And you can be the lightside and outright murder someone, cause the deaths of many or cause more harm many in the billions do to your actions because your definition of good isn’t objectively good
In others words the darkside and lightside aren’t evil or good
They are parts of the force via the ying gang principle
Both will always exist and it’s in everyone
Of balance is to be maintained individuals must learn or both sides to balance themselves
To learn control of themselves and understand how the force works
Balance by definition doesn’t mean tranquility calmness or peacefulness
That’s not the definition of balance
Here are the actual definitions
device, especially one consisting of a rigid beam horizontally suspended by a low-friction support at its center, with identical weighing pans hung at either end, one of which holds an unknown weight while the effective weight in the other is increased by known amounts until the beam is level.
A state of equilibrium or parity characterized by cancellation of all forces by equal opposing forces.
The power or means to decide.
"matters that fell outside the judge's balance."
A state of bodily equilibrium.
"thrown off balance by a gust of wind."
The ability to maintain bodily equilibrium.
"Gymnasts must have good balance."
A harmonious or satisfying arrangement or proportion of parts or elements, as in a design.
An influence or force tending to produce equilibrium; counterpoise.
The difference in magnitude between opposing forces or influences.
In none of those definitions does it say that balance is peaceful
but 2 forces posing an equal and opposite reaction in equilibrium
Which means if the light and darkside are 2 forces by definition
You can’t have balance if one overtakes the other
To much light would cause and imbalance
The best way to look at Star Wars is this
Hard times(times of imbalance) create strong men(people who have light and darkness but learn control and balancing themselves) strong men create good times(times of peace and balance) good times create weak men( people lose touch with balance using either the dark or the light to much) weak men create hard times
People need to understand this
The sith use any aspect of the force to their will not just the darkside
Some sith even use the lightside and still do bad things
Or just lightside users who are just evil people cause imbalance
Where you can have someone who uses the darkside but hasn’t done any evil what so ever
And being to much into one side hurts you
To be honest luke Skywalker is the one who embodies the balance of the force better then anyone in Star Wars
Where as anakin is the definition of imbalance
Anakin as Jedi had no control of himself when he was a Jedi he couldn’t keep himself centered even used the darkside at points
And as Vader he was still in the lightside and was even able to force heal some people as Vader and still cared for some people
Luke is someone who used the darkside to defeat his father but didn’t let it overtake him
Luke is someone the Jedi wanted him to kill Vader
Sidious wanted him to kill Vader
Either because the Jedi thought Vader was to dark
Or Sidious who thought Vader wasn’t in the darkside enough
Yet Luke spared him not because of either but because he was still his father and person
Luke actually used the force in a way that is healthy
In which he can have some darkness but he keeps it in check and doesn’t abuse it rather treat it with harmony with himself
he can’t beat the darkness but learn to accept it and not let it get to his head all the same
This is why he surprised everyone
Both siduous and the Jedi were shocked
Because Luke is the only Jedi since qui gon died that accepted that
That’s what balance is
It’s not destroying the dark it’s accepting it in not only yourself but in someone else and helping them regardless
In other words to maintain balance is not about destroying the darkness but trying to live with in ourselves
@@nuttproductions461 the thing is unless you only count the force being balance as the darkside being a corruption it can only work within the 6 movies with no external material
As the thing is
If the force is just the force
And there was a right and wrong way to use it
And the terms dark and light are just based on point of view of using the force in a good or bad way
Then that be different
However dark and light as concepts or aspects of the force as in one side is positivity the other is negativity
Both are needed for balance and it’s only bad when you have to much positive or negative
That’s what Star Wars has become
Using the negative side isn’t bad
But when abused it is
Just like how staying to positive leads to complacency the inability to see what’s wrong and improve beyond what you are now
That’s what made the Jedi in most eras just not good or powerful and when confronted with darkness are paralyzed or consumed by it as they never faced such negativity before
Which is why this idea of falling to the darkness is so apparent it’s because no one actually deals with it save a few
Hence why people say these individuals are grey
Not just because they use the darkside and light side at points
But because they actually deal with both sides and learn to be better
To control themselves as being exposed to darkness or letting it out for a bit isn’t bad
As long as you don’t let it get to your head
It’s about discipline morals, and being healthy
By not accepting the darkness you are being unhealthy, instead of accepting the darkness knowing it’s apart of you,learning to temper it
By rejecting it do you fall even harder
Whcih is why I hate when people say the darkness is not apart of the balance
Your putting yourself in greater imbalance by doing so
the sith by their own doctrine just use the force for immoral and unjustified action
That’s what makes the sith bad
Not that they only use the darkside alone
And just like how the Jedi only use the light doesn’t make them good either
To put simply light and dark in Star Wars are 2 parts of the unified force
And GL’s own fews on the force is there is a good and wrong way to use it
But unless Star Wars ends at episode 6
Can balance be maintained
Even then there is no guarantee that some one else will use the force for evil reasons
It’s just a case that I am of the belief that anakin wasn’t actually a chosen one
that the chosen one prophesy is fake made up by Jedi and sith
But Anakin was still created by the force in response to plagues interfering with using the force to create life
Anakin was a response by the force
the force was out of balance and was brought back in to balance before Anakin
And it will be bring back or put out of balance without Anakin
That Anakin is the idea of he was talented in the force and yes he was born of the force
but he wasn’t some chosen one
It’s that expectation of him that is unreasonable for anyone
That Anakin is a child of the force but all life at the end of the day is
Anakin was sent to deal with the current sith which were above almost every Jedi
As the Jedi have grown weak and lost their way
He was born to respond to the imbalance at the time
But if Anakin was born normal had a father but put in the same situation
He be normal by force users talented that happened to be talented in the force
It’s that expectation of the chosen one that makes things complicated
As I am of the belief a ordinary person in the future after anakin may be called by the force to bring balance
Not because they are inherently talented but because the force sees them and wants to make the best they can be to solve the current crisis
To learn to be powerful enough to be considered a chosen one in all but name or expectation
Actually chosen by the force itself
And it’s not about killing all darkside users
It’s about forgiveness toward those who lost their way
And only destroying those who don’t want to be saved regardless of how hard you try and let out a hand
As you can be a lightside user who acts like a messiah Like Paul atraties for example where your using the lightside but not for moral reasons
Or someone trying to use the darkside but for supposedly the right reasons
As power is innocent
It doesn’t change someone it reveals who they are
If the dark side consumes, then wouldn't the light side fulfill? Meaing, to become a Grey Jedi, you'd need to practice both concurrently, not one, then the other.
Lil man hasn't heard of revan.
If you using legends then yes a grey jedi can exist, with starkiller being the prime example of a force user who was able to use the dark side without fully succumbing to it, however still recieving temptation and visions attempting to lure him as seen in the novel
This is the issue. Grey Jedi never existed. Not even in legends. There is no grey Jedi code. There is no way to use the dark side without falling. Luke used the dark side in DE and fell. Revan, Malek, Traya, all users whose ideology betrayed them the moment they Tapped into it. And Starkiller did fall to the dark side. The entire half of the game is him doing Vader’s bidding as his secret apprentice using the dark side. Gameplay mechanics have deceived fans perception of how the force works.
@@LordDagovere what about Mace? I would say there is a difference between tapping into the dark side of the force and tapping into the darkness in yourself and using that too augment your abilities what say you ?
He taps into his inner darkness, not the dark side of the force. Because he is focused on the darkness in himself, he is able to send the dark side back at it’s user. He isn’t tapping into the dark side or channeling the dark side. Inner darkness is not the same as the dark side. If he did that, he would have fallen to the dark side like Anakin.
@LordDagovere you seem to be basing what I said off of the game despite me clearly stating the novel. He has a vision of the darkness and it's temptations and he has lures to the light. He was trained in the dark side from the age of 2 and escaped it, you're saying someone who was able to use the dark side can't go back to the light? He embraces his lineage as a Jedi but still uses the dark side, he doesn't fight for power or personal gain, he fights for what's right. He fought Vader using the dark side despite being donned a Jedi by Kota who himself was a master. It's possible to use the dark for good or to resist the power temptation it has but it is difficult and it took starkiller 16 years of Vader's training (borderline torture) to learn how to reject the darkness. Part of him was corrupted by it, as seen in a vision, one of his hands was the hand of his sith stalker counterpart before going back to normal. Anakin had the same lures before palpatine influenced him, same for luke and the others, but whether they fall for it is another topic.
- never said they can’t redeem or come back. Starkiller is clearly not a Jedi. He is a force user trained sith/assassin. And while Kota might be his ‘master’ I don’t think you can classify Starkiller as a Jedi even if he claims to be one. But that’s just my opinion, not fact.
- I think you can easily understand that all the characters I listed fell to the dark side. Including Starkiller
- my original reply is just reiterating what my video said “the more you use the dark side the more it will consume you, the more you will succumb to it”
What about bendu from rebles? He's not of the jedi or sith but uses both light and dark sides of the force.
Or the mortis father.
What about Revan? He flipped back and fourth I guess, but also the dude with the orange saber in the movie
Revan imo choose to fall to the dark side and became a sith. And depending on your head canon - he struggled with the dark side of the force and eventually was split between 2 spirits of light and dark.
Baylan from Ahsoka? He’s a great concept imo because he tells Shin that she was trained as a Jedi. But they both clearly are a bit dark. I don’t think they are Jedi but they are imo more dark sided invested than the usual Jedi. Still not enough to really understand what they are yet imo.
Bendu denies this logic!!!
That’s okay. I don’t make videos for everyone to agree. That would be boring.
Video reeks of "Tell us you are a padawan in the legacy of the ways of the force" without telling us you are a padawan.
Lyle Katarn, Galen Marek, Mace Windu, I believe Revan, as well as these, the Bendu, Grogu, The father, Nightsister Merrin, and I think there is more, but my knowledge is not as vast as some others.
Bro talked about the game, forgot about the Revan novel. Revan Reborn.
Bendu says no.
Gray Jedi Do exist...there are force sensitives that have left the order to further their abillities yet serve neither the empire nor the republic...Jolee Bindo and Qui-Gon were the most know grey jedi...
Windu was a grey jedi of sorts he used both the dark and the light side of the force, Yoda went into both sides occasionally but not as much as Windu did, during Windu's battle with Sidious he used his own form style that was a variant form of VII called Vaapad. Know more you will hmmm
Believe it or not he wasn’t. I’ve even made a video on it. Perhaps you’d know more if you watched that video.
@@LordDagovere Well he should be the first official one because we go by Canon correct?
No. The only formerly official gray jedi was Qui-Gon who was given the title in 1998 comic. Not because he uses the dark side but because he openly defies the Jedi council.
Believe have been deceived into believing Mace is a gray Jedi because of his Vaapad technique. But in reality this technique does NOT use the dark side. In fact it brings him to the edge of the light side where Mace Windu stays and does not push passed into the realm of the dark side. I go deeply into that in the mace windu video.
@@LordDagovere Okay so I understand Qui-Gon getting the status but doesn't it also say Windu walked the line for his use of form VII because it said "having created the Vaapad variant in as a mean to address and to control his inner darkness and channel it towards productive means while making it in line with the Jedi Code." So he himself used it to channel his anger and hate towards Palpatine during his battle with him. Till of course he lost focus on what he was supposed to do and bring him in and arrest him I guess you could say that it started to turn him to the dark side because he wanted to end the life of someone who was "disarmed" So I feel if it was so that he lost control of the light side and was turning at that moment when he made the dision to kill Palpatine then and there. But that last part is my opion on that matter. Lol
Jacen Solo at the end of the Yuuzhan Vong war
Ya boi that fell to the dark side?
@@LordDagovere yeeears later bro, he beat the Yuuzhan Vong by being in a state of perfect balance between light and dark side, which made him unusual powerful for a slight moment
Hmm, I’m not sure that’s how I interpreted it. I felt like because of him getting tortured he fell to the dark side.
I reject all thought of grey jedi. Star wars is a western movie through and though. Jedi are the purely good or evil samurai. The western scoundrels and bounty hunters are the ones who walk the line. That is their role, not the jedi or sith.
The only reason we have all these comic and shows where jedi walk the line is because "lightsaber cool"
The miner Sith Lord
The easiest way to stir up a bunch of comments is to claim something completely asinine and proven to be false. Well done.
explain the father then 🤨🤨
He isn’t a Jedi.
False at every level
Old and new canon
Mace Windu
Windu taps into the dark side for his lightsaber fighting style but he has to have a lot of focus in order to not fall into the dark side. He is by no means a "master" of the dark side.
If you've heard the phrase "jack of all trades, master of none" then that should explain why true grey jedi are so rare.
You need to be that one in a billion to strike that perfect balance, but your skill set of either side will never truly be complete because you've dipped your toe in both waters.
@@damondusklightThe Grey Jedi never existed because that concept was created by the fans who played the older Star Wars games. They didn't understand how the Force works and how they wanted the excuse to justify their actions when slaying innocents bystanders.
@@Darksidesoldier1
George Lucas has often described the relationship between the Light Side and the Dark Side of the Force in terms of balance and moral choices. The Light Side is associated with selflessness, compassion, and healing, while the Dark Side is linked to selfishness, anger, and aggression. Lucas has emphasized that the Force itself is neutral and that it is the intentions and actions of the individuals using it that determine its manifestation as light or dark.
Going by HIS DESCRIPTION - there is probable reason to consider an individual who is able to use both and not fall to the stereotypes the Jedi and Sith fell into.
George did not describe the Force as being good or evil, but that the choices and actions of the individual were what determined this outcome. That in itself means the Force itself is neutral, and encompasses both sides of the force while being neither.
It is a parallel to Ying and Yang, the ability for a person to be both good and bad. Just as there are Morally Gray people, the argument here is there can be Gray Jedi. So what exactly did those people not understand by his description of the force? It may be built on a theory and the idea my not be written into cannon, but prior to Disney buying the franchise, George approved of many of the Fan Novels added to the lore, several including references and the concept of the Grey Jedi.
So where do you think you have the right to step in place of George and say who does and does not understand his work better than him?
*Dark Jedi. That is the sole term I'll allow as a concession to the fedora bros and Starkiller fans. The concept of a Grey Jedi is stupid from a semantic aspect; but being that Jedi and Sith are completely different religions with different belief systems, a Jedi openly practicing DS abilities would be a Dark Jedi.
Dark Jedi is a better title for me, like Inquisitor jerec, they dont usually qualify as sith.
Bro, Mace Windu
I always thought a “Gray Jedi” is a force user who doesn’t walk the way of the Jedi on Croissant or the cod of the sith
Yeah no, this is cap. There existed the je'daii that survived for generations living in balance between the light and the dark.
I think it comes down to mostly the individual, rather than the force as a whole.
Have you read the Revan novel? It explicitly states that post brainwash Revan has mastered both. And the Bendu.
Technically Luke does use some dark side abilities.
Anakin didn't become a grey jedi. He fell to the dark side, but then returned to the light. It was one or the other.
You can’t say that it’s wrong and then tell us nothing about why
The dark side consumes. The more you use it, the more you will succumb to
It. There is no balance with the dark side because all of its users obey it and driven in it.
The Dark side doesn't exist, ths light side doesn't exist. There is only the force and how you use it. Jedi channel the force through themselves allowing it to guide their hands. Sith grab the force by the throat and beat it till it serves their whims.
Lets say a nightsister would become a jedi but leave the order afterwards wouldn’t they come closest to a grey jedi considering they use dark magicks which come from the dark side of the force but it doesnt consume them
For sure. But of course they are no longer a Jedi at that point. But a force user wielding both light and dark? Yes.
INTERJECTION!!!! WBW anakin is a force ghost and that is it. I have looked high and low and never once have I found a source that says he is anything more then that, and I have found people that worked on the ahsoka show say he is a force ghost.
Him being the new mortis father while somewhat cool I guess has 0 evidence towards it.
Dude Kreia is a hypocrite. She believes that the Jedi don’t need lightsabers and rely too much on the force. Well newsflash at the end of the game she uses the force heavily, and she battles with three light sabers control by the force. Also the difference between a force user and a regular person is indeed that fact that the force user has control over the force.