Great project! although I am disappointed in the way the project wrapped up. Normally we get a case design, some testing etc and I really think this project deserves this. Part 3 maybe?
Distortionize He probably didn't want to do that without the 3rd system added, so they left it at a part 2. Perhaps a part 3 will eventually come along with the CPM computer added and a custom case to wrap the project up in.
+Distortionize Yeah you can tell he used to love legos when he was a child: more interested in building things than actually playing with them once its done. :p
I liked how this project put more of the available work time for Ben on mapping out board programs, troubleshooting the logic, wiring the components and testing from before, during and after. This gives a better sense of the workflow and the knowledge needed for building electronic systems from the ground up.
The Ben Heck Show Loved these episodes a ton, but gonna have to agree. We need a part 3! I would love to see this in a case with controllers and see some footage of the final product in action.
allluckyseven putting in both cardridges would cause the ROMs in both cardriges to fight against the bus/each other. In the worst case, both cardriges and probably even the CPU could get damaged. In the best case nothing would happen, and nothing would work.
allluckyseven there is only 1 cartridge slot. although i agree, a third episode would be nice. if he made a xbox one and a ps 4 do that, it would be a BIT cooler. if he went that direction it would be cool to see a multi disc loader and a controller that could boot ps4 or xbox one instead of having to get up to switch it
First of all, I have no idea what is going on in these last two episodes but I love them anyway! I would love to see a future episode(s). I'd like to see the third system added as well as a custom and neat looking case to enclose this system. I'd also really like to see controller ports and the like hashed out. I want to see a final, usable product that looks polished off. Thanks for the great series!
This is the wildest black magic I've ever seen. There's there's a huge cliff between "They should be compatible" to "That should be feasible" to ACTUALLY FSCKING DOING IT. You are a god.
I think it would be cool to have a modular system, where you have an input / output system or base unit, connected to a monitor a keyboard and a controller, this then has a single port / slot for Ben to make various "modules" to plug in the various systems to the input / output unit. Basically the module would have any unique components / cart slots required for the system, whereas shared components would be in the base unit.
It sounds like you are pretty much done with this project (at least for now), but I always enjoy the episodes where you design and build the housing or enclosure for the project too. It's always fun to see the unique problems and solutions that arise.
This is awesome. I would totally buy the boards to make one of these! I've been considering making a CP/M computer... compatibility with ColecoVision and SMS is an awesome idea!
Would have liked to have seen a finished product but i enjoyed both vids a lot. Master System and Colecovision get left out a lot of the time, so it was nice to see them referenced.
I would love to see a really long series where you guys really made it to a "finished product". Your videos are kinda like watching an artist sketch over and over without ever completing any work. I think the video with the raspberry pi graphing calculator was headed in the right direction and would have been great if it actually was finished the way it was intended to. Maybe something like a graphing calculator is too complicated for your short series format. But it'd be great to see a video go from this "sketch" to a production ready device. Maybe something really simple like a digital thermometer or something like that.
I love the idea of this project, sort of like a "Retron N", but in hardware instead of emulation. My approach would have been to have a "mother" board containing the Z-80 + TMS9918 + RAM, and then a daughter board for each separate system, containing the ROM, cart slot, controller connectors and men mapping logic for that system. Then something like an S-100 bus to be able to plug in multiple daughter cards, and a way to switch to the "active" daughterboard /system.
That's it? This project isn't finished yet. I was expecting a part 3 with controller ports and a case and to see actual games from each system booting.
Please purchase a black pointer stick. White pointer stick on white dry erase board = hard to tell what you're pointing at (especially when you're pointing to a grid of 0's and 1's).
"What would you have done differently?" I think I'd have sat there, Staring at the pile of components in front of me for a good ten minutes before looking up to the camera and saying "Well, I haven't got a fri66in' clue what the f*ck I'm supposed to do with this lot........... I'm going to the pub". :)
I'm new to the Ben Heck Show and damn that's both entertaining and impressive! This project in particular is incredible and I never realized how different systems like the Coleco and the SMS were so similar. Makes me want to read more about those systems and their differences. Also, who's the voice doing the opening? Isn't it Jon St John? Sounds a bit like him.
With all of that discrete logic, I would have used a PAL for address decoding. Plus they are simple enough to actually make a programming file by hand(!), which might make an interesting segment.
Years of watching TBHS has turned me into an electronics fan, spinning like crazy with joy of possibilities. At first I knew/understood nothing, now I understand enough to follow along. But since I live in Uruguay, I have no real resources at hand (apart from the internet of course). Could you point me to somewhere I can learn electronics in the most fun and free way possible? I bought some good books off of Amazon, but they are not nearly as fun as TBHS. Jokes aside, I'm sure something like a "Ben's Electronics Basics" series that could make the other episodes more accessible would be awesome! But I realize that takes a lot of time, money and effort. In any case, thank you so much for the inspiration. PS, Max is alright but I still miss Alyson. I hope she's doing great.
I Feel that this project needs more attention. I hope that you can make the episode adding the 3rd element(14) to this project as it is really interesting. If you make a combo system like this again try to make a SNES work with a Sega Genesis lol. Best of luck and thanks for a very interesting set of episodes.
I would have used a small CPLD or FPGA for the logic. It would have saved much time wiring up everything. And if there are any mistakes, they can be corrected easily.
Dear Ben, How much documentation do you keep on these projects and do you do any project plans prior to starting? It always seems like you get an idea and go straight to work.
I'm absolutely lost into the indepth of what is happening. But It almost feels alright, Ben is an absolute genius. Rewiring entire damn computers in the past.
I have to say, what you are doing here is very impressive, actually physically combining three distinct consoles to work together as one. I would absolutely purchase one of these if they were ever put into production, as my poor Colecovision is dying a slow and painful to watch death. It would be amazing to have new hardware for not only the Coleco, but the Sega as well as an MSX based computer. You truly are a master Ben! Great job!
Technically we could start from a sega Genesis, it has a backward compatibility to the master system too (the genesis has a Z80 for secondary processor).
please make a part 3. would love to see the cp/m added, but i'd settle for just seeing a few games running and have things in a proper case. the project feels a bit unfinished as is
Really awesome project, would be even cooler if you can revisit it in the future to add MSX (or original Spectravideo - technically the father of all these designs). Someone has actually made a SMS/SG1000 cartridge for MSX computers. I would love to be able to play with hardware like this, maybe I will give it a go in the future when I have some more time, thank you for a great set of videos.
Pretty sweet, just wished it would of been finished. Doesn't appear audio or controllers had solutions in this. Would love to see if this could actually all be done to the end and into a working case with full working audio etc. Though I would imagine that audio and controllers wouldn't be an issue as long as you added the chips as that part could run separate I assume for each console and same for the controllers. I think he showed the parts he did because they are the parts that used the same components and to finish the project with audio etc would just require more work but each console would be using their individual components rather than the shared ones. Still learned a lot as I just started finding this sort of stuff interesting. Would of been epic though if it had been completed. Are there any other combo systems that could be put together like this? Or is this a rare case of shared components?
PKKShadow hbm is the die on the main processor so it has the fastest way to get to the memory. he just stacked the memory on top of each other because they use some of the same pins but the data lines are going to different areas. it nether speeds it up nor slows it down its just that way to save space and work. btw HBM stands for High bandwidth memory. which this memory is not.
Ben should really invest in a way of making PCBs in-house (other than by using a laser printer and an iron, I mean)... got to be easier than hand-wiring all these perf boards!
Jim C K Flaten It's different enough not to work with a normal Z80 CPU. 5 of the 7 instruction tables were removed, and a dozen instructions in the main table were removed and some of those were replaced. I believe the whole bit instructions table is identical. The 7 tables are: Main instructions -Some changes in GB Z80 Bit instructions (CB) -Identical IX instructions (DD) -Removed in GB Z80 IX bit instructions (DDCB) -Removed in GB Z80 IY instructions (FD) -Removed in GB Z80 IY bit instructions (FDCB) -Removed in GB Z80 Extended instructions (ED) -Removed in GB Z80
Instruction sets not being present in the GB shouldn't be a problem since the GB games will just not use those in the Z80 then. But the instructions that are changed could be a problem.
True. I know that 100% of the Gameboy games use the oppcodes "LD A,(FFXX)" and "LD (FFXX),A" which is a exclusive GBZ80 instruction. It was intended to replace the removed "IN (XX)" and "OUT (XX)" instructions. The "STOP" instruction is used for changing the CPU speed in the Gameboy Color. Executing "HALT" after "HALT" locks up the CPU, so not only does it have it's differences, it has it's own set of glitches.
I would have put the discrete logic onto a CPLD. You can show people how to program these things. Xilinx have a line of them that are 5V compatible. I can't wait for the third mystery system.
Too bad the Gameboy uses a slightly modified Z80, or this could have been a triple-function system. Unless you can find a test ROM that doesn't use any of the modified opcodes.
Whoa Ben made a IC sandwich? My mind is blown I always saw him try to make everything smaller. And doing all that wiring I'd be pretty much the same I would be my brain is mush and would be going cross eyed from it. xD
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Great project! although I am disappointed in the way the project wrapped up.
Normally we get a case design, some testing etc and I really think this project deserves this.
Part 3 maybe?
For sure
Joey Ferwerda a custom pcb would be nice after this prototype......and a case, portable of course...
Do a Part 3!
The series ended there will never be a part 3.
"What would you have made differently?"
Well i would at least have finished it, tested it with a game, put it in a nice box...?
Distortionize He probably didn't want to do that without the 3rd system added, so they left it at a part 2. Perhaps a part 3 will eventually come along with the CPM computer added and a custom case to wrap the project up in.
+Distortionize Yeah you can tell he used to love legos when he was a child: more interested in building things than actually playing with them once its done. :p
I liked how this project put more of the available work time for Ben on mapping out board programs, troubleshooting the logic, wiring the components and testing from before, during and after. This gives a better sense of the workflow and the knowledge needed for building electronic systems from the ground up.
We soo need a Part 3. Would be pretty cool to have 3 systems in 1.
Thanks for doing something more complex than usual. I really enjoyed these two episodes. They were a nice learning experience for me.
The Ben Heck Show Loved these episodes a ton, but gonna have to agree. We need a part 3! I would love to see this in a case with controllers and see some footage of the final product in action.
What would I have done?
Case. Controller ports
Just to be different I'd make the controllers SNES based. :)
But what if you insert *both* cartridges?
Also, I wouldn't mind a third episode if it meant adding a CPM. And making a more _finished_ product.
allluckyseven putting in both cardridges would cause the ROMs in both cardriges to fight against the bus/each other. In the worst case, both cardriges and probably even the CPU could get damaged. In the best case nothing would happen, and nothing would work.
allluckyseven I don't think he left enough space between the connectors for you to be able to insert both cartridges at the same time.
mv2112mv If so, that would neatly solve that problem.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Adding the 3rd system and finishing could be a future episode.
allluckyseven there is only 1 cartridge slot. although i agree, a third episode would be nice. if he made a xbox one and a ps 4 do that, it would be a BIT cooler. if he went that direction it would be cool to see a multi disc loader and a controller that could boot ps4 or xbox one instead of having to get up to switch it
Thanks for the vid Ben :) That wiring looked tough, no wonder you were exhausted afterwards.
First of all, I have no idea what is going on in these last two episodes but I love them anyway! I would love to see a future episode(s). I'd like to see the third system added as well as a custom and neat looking case to enclose this system. I'd also really like to see controller ports and the like hashed out. I want to see a final, usable product that looks polished off. Thanks for the great series!
This project deserves a part 3. A finished case, plus whatever the third system was. Also I noticed no controller hookups were added.
Why didn't you show the cartridges actually being booted from?
So much 8-bit hotness here. LOVING IT
Hoping for a Part 3 with the final system and a case!! Love this project so far!
This is the wildest black magic I've ever seen. There's there's a huge cliff between "They should be compatible" to "That should be feasible" to ACTUALLY FSCKING DOING IT.
You are a god.
Really nice going on the discrete logic! Sweet stuff!
That much hand wiring gives me head-spinny-crazy.
I would be wiring in computer, testing in computer...and spinning up a board :D
I think it would be cool to have a modular system, where you have an input / output system or base unit, connected to a monitor a keyboard and a controller, this then has a single port / slot for Ben to make various "modules" to plug in the various systems to the input / output unit. Basically the module would have any unique components / cart slots required for the system, whereas shared components would be in the base unit.
It sounds like you are pretty much done with this project (at least for now), but I always enjoy the episodes where you design and build the housing or enclosure for the project too. It's always fun to see the unique problems and solutions that arise.
I absolutely love this show!
Please keep doing episodes that keep it at this skill level.
you have amazing patience for all that clean hand wiring.
And in a year from now Ben re-visits the game brain and implements it entirely in an FPGA.
This is awesome. I would totally buy the boards to make one of these! I've been considering making a CP/M computer... compatibility with ColecoVision and SMS is an awesome idea!
I would have added either Amstrad CPC 464 or Sinclair Spectrum as both used Z80 cpu. The Amstrad actually used CP/M as well. But that is just me
It would be cool to see this finished and put in a case of some sort.
would have been nice to see a finished product as in other episodes.
Yes I have combined two devices together! Once I strapped a Bluetooth headset to a toaster with a piece of tape for god only knows what reason.
Would have liked to have seen a finished product but i enjoyed both vids a lot. Master System and Colecovision get left out a lot of the time, so it was nice to see them referenced.
This is joy to watch... I got into electronics to do stuff like this!
OUCH BEN STOP BLOWING MY MIND WITH THIS AWESOME PROJECTS
I would love to see a really long series where you guys really made it to a "finished product". Your videos are kinda like watching an artist sketch over and over without ever completing any work.
I think the video with the raspberry pi graphing calculator was headed in the right direction and would have been great if it actually was finished the way it was intended to.
Maybe something like a graphing calculator is too complicated for your short series format. But it'd be great to see a video go from this "sketch" to a production ready device. Maybe something really simple like a digital thermometer or something like that.
so far out of my skill range, ben you are truly amazing.
I love the idea of this project, sort of like a "Retron N", but in hardware instead of emulation. My approach would have been to have a "mother" board containing the Z-80 + TMS9918 + RAM, and then a daughter board for each separate system, containing the ROM, cart slot, controller connectors and men mapping logic for that system. Then something like an S-100 bus to be able to plug in multiple daughter cards, and a way to switch to the "active" daughterboard /system.
I had considered doing a combination of a ZX Spectrum +2 or +3 with an Amstrad CPC 464 or 664 but lack the mad skillz to pull it off.
This one's a really interesting video, like the first one too! Lots of little tips and tricks even for beginners.
That's it? This project isn't finished yet. I was expecting a part 3 with controller ports and a case and to see actual games from each system booting.
Please purchase a black pointer stick. White pointer stick on white dry erase board = hard to tell what you're pointing at (especially when you're pointing to a grid of 0's and 1's).
Josh Olson He had a pointer? sharp eyes josh!
brocktechnology Hah! Exactly. It was that bad. :-P
Even though this is super complicated and goes above my head, I would enjoy a third episode where you put this into a case. What about controllers?
"What would you have done differently?"
I think I'd have sat there, Staring at the pile of components in front of me for a good ten minutes before looking up to the camera and saying "Well, I haven't got a fri66in' clue what the f*ck I'm supposed to do with this lot........... I'm going to the pub". :)
I'm new to the Ben Heck Show and damn that's both entertaining and impressive! This project in particular is incredible and I never realized how different systems like the Coleco and the SMS were so similar. Makes me want to read more about those systems and their differences.
Also, who's the voice doing the opening? Isn't it Jon St John? Sounds a bit like him.
With all of that discrete logic, I would have used a PAL for address decoding. Plus they are simple enough to actually make a programming file by hand(!), which might make an interesting segment.
Don't know why i watch i have no clue whats happening.
House Shark ha! neither do I
House Shark Your avatar is a bit of a lie then.
leigh woollett that makes three of us!
Yeah me too. It's interesting to watch though.
Same here. It's so interesting and I would love to do what he does but it sounds like a different language when he goes into details.
Ben you have gotten way to good at this. Just wow.
This is the most amazing video yet! Keep up the awesome stuff guys! I think I may take my electronics and try to make a 2 in one. ;)
Years of watching TBHS has turned me into an electronics fan, spinning like crazy with joy of possibilities. At first I knew/understood nothing, now I understand enough to follow along. But since I live in Uruguay, I have no real resources at hand (apart from the internet of course). Could you point me to somewhere I can learn electronics in the most fun and free way possible? I bought some good books off of Amazon, but they are not nearly as fun as TBHS. Jokes aside, I'm sure something like a "Ben's Electronics Basics" series that could make the other episodes more accessible would be awesome! But I realize that takes a lot of time, money and effort. In any case, thank you so much for the inspiration. PS, Max is alright but I still miss Alyson. I hope she's doing great.
wait WHAT? you're stopping it here? i thought you were gonna make a part 3 to add the CP/M computer and all that stuff!
I Feel that this project needs more attention. I hope that you can make the episode adding the 3rd element(14) to this project as it is really interesting. If you make a combo system like this again try to make a SNES work with a Sega Genesis lol. Best of luck and thanks for a very interesting set of episodes.
Sean Peter McGuigan They are two completely different machines. I can assure you that it would be a nightmare to do.
Hifeno Drake someone is doing it with a FPGA, each boot you program the FPGA with the system you need..cant remember where i saw it though...
I would have used a small CPLD or FPGA for the logic. It would have saved much time wiring up everything. And if there are any mistakes, they can be corrected easily.
What about a SNES, NES, Apple II, T-800, and a Bending Unit?
The 65c816 is supposedly compatible with the 6502.
Dear Ben,
How much documentation do you keep on these projects and do you do any project plans prior to starting? It always seems like you get an idea and go straight to work.
I'm absolutely lost into the indepth of what is happening. But It almost feels alright, Ben is an absolute genius. Rewiring entire damn computers in the past.
Why the (expletive deleted) is there a two episode gap between these two parts?
[Show starts at 1:40]
krmusick life I guess.
This project was awesome Ben! :) I would love to see more like this :) keep up the good work ;)
I have to say, what you are doing here is very impressive, actually physically combining three distinct consoles to work together as one. I would absolutely purchase one of these if they were ever put into production, as my poor Colecovision is dying a slow and painful to watch death. It would be amazing to have new hardware for not only the Coleco, but the Sega as well as an MSX based computer. You truly are a master Ben! Great job!
Using the SMS you could've used a Genesis as well since it's fully backwards compatible with the SMS and uses many of the same hardware!
Technically we could start from a sega Genesis, it has a backward compatibility to the master system too (the genesis has a Z80 for secondary processor).
Maxime Vinzio The SG-1000 modes are sadly not available on the genesis video chip.
Also all the memory decoding logic would murder ben heck.
It seems unfinished though, are we getting another episode? Would like to see the third system or at the very least a nice enclosure :/
please make a part 3. would love to see the cp/m added, but i'd settle for just seeing a few games running and have things in a proper case. the project feels a bit unfinished as is
Really awesome project, would be even cooler if you can revisit it in the future to add MSX (or original Spectravideo - technically the father of all these designs).
Someone has actually made a SMS/SG1000 cartridge for MSX computers.
I would love to be able to play with hardware like this, maybe I will give it a go in the future when I have some more time, thank you for a great set of videos.
I love youre movies, Ben! But can you show us a way to implement a simple BASIC system for this computer?
I don't know how possible this is but it would be cool if you could give the system a digital video output so you can connect it to modern TVs etc.
I wish this had gotten a part 3.
Since you already have a Z80 as the project's CPU, then why not also include the ZX Spectrum?
Pretty sweet, just wished it would of been finished. Doesn't appear audio or controllers had solutions in this. Would love to see if this could actually all be done to the end and into a working case with full working audio etc. Though I would imagine that audio and controllers wouldn't be an issue as long as you added the chips as that part could run separate I assume for each console and same for the controllers.
I think he showed the parts he did because they are the parts that used the same components and to finish the project with audio etc would just require more work but each console would be using their individual components rather than the shared ones.
Still learned a lot as I just started finding this sort of stuff interesting. Would of been epic though if it had been completed.
Are there any other combo systems that could be put together like this? Or is this a rare case of shared components?
Did the AMD HBM inspire you to stack the chips ?
would this have worked with a z180 processor or another processor in the z80 line-up ?
Could you make a PCM board of what you made? and make and sell that?
Link for testing screen? I'd like to get a 7", 9", or 11" for my raspberry pi
Is that the hbm AMD has been talking about?
PKKShadow lol stackable memory, kinda same thing :P
PKKShadow hbm is the die on the main processor so it has the fastest way to get to the memory. he just stacked the memory on top of each other because they use some of the same pins but the data lines are going to different areas. it nether speeds it up nor slows it down its just that way to save space and work. btw HBM stands for High bandwidth memory. which this memory is not.
brandonhughes7 I think you missed the joke.
stewjw What joke? I see no joke.
"Ben" looking forward to this one! (ducks)
I don't like the whole splitting up projects to every other week though.
Ben should really invest in a way of making PCBs in-house (other than by using a laser printer and an iron, I mean)... got to be easier than hand-wiring all these perf boards!
I would make it so from a controller you could boot the different roms. That would be cool for things like xbox one and PS 4.
Why not isolate CNC these busses? It safes a lot of time for sure.
Why did you use the old video encoder instead of a modern replacement?
The transitions and ads have higher volume than the episode, please fix this in next videos!
Awesome channel btw!
why not have kept Allison if you wanted someone who could solder, and tape the show.
The 74LS138 is a 3:8 multiplexer, not 3:1.
Why don't you do a third episode ?
How you tin the wires so much and so quickly?
p.s. sorry for my english.
Love this episode I understood near all of it.
Why didn't you just laser paint a pcb for this? Surely that'd take less time than all the manual wiring!
Nice cool episode i hope you make part3 soon maby add raspberry as 3rd system or a old intel cpu with smal hdd or something :D
Isn't the original Gameboy basically a Z80? I don't believe it's branded as such, but a good chunk of the instruction set is the same.
Jim C K Flaten It's different enough not to work with a normal Z80 CPU.
5 of the 7 instruction tables were removed, and a dozen instructions in the main table were removed and some of those were replaced.
I believe the whole bit instructions table is identical.
The 7 tables are:
Main instructions -Some changes in GB Z80
Bit instructions (CB) -Identical
IX instructions (DD) -Removed in GB Z80
IX bit instructions (DDCB) -Removed in GB Z80
IY instructions (FD) -Removed in GB Z80
IY bit instructions (FDCB) -Removed in GB Z80
Extended instructions (ED) -Removed in GB Z80
Instruction sets not being present in the GB shouldn't be a problem since the GB games will just not use those in the Z80 then. But the instructions that are changed could be a problem.
True. I know that 100% of the Gameboy games use the oppcodes "LD A,(FFXX)" and "LD (FFXX),A" which is a exclusive GBZ80 instruction. It was intended to replace the removed "IN (XX)" and "OUT (XX)" instructions. The "STOP" instruction is used for changing the CPU speed in the Gameboy Color. Executing "HALT" after "HALT" locks up the CPU, so not only does it have it's differences, it has it's own set of glitches.
please make the final video
I would have put the discrete logic onto a CPLD. You can show people how to program these things. Xilinx have a line of them that are 5V compatible. I can't wait for the third mystery system.
Can you add more ram?
Starts at 1:40
Wouldn't it be easier to create a new console using the z28 processor and then create a BIOS with the ability to emulate multiple consoles?
Recently the projects have become absurdly complex and hard to follow. I would like to see something us mortals could contemplate making.
so basicly you are making a console like the retron 5 ?
More episodes with the z80. Maybe with an Eagle made board.
Very cool! However... back in the day.... I would have used a single programmable pal chip. Not only smaller, much more flexible..
Hi Ben did You can make a CNC step by step please thank you
I have an idea for a thing to maybe like take a next generation console take its insides and put it in a retro console
Too bad the Gameboy uses a slightly modified Z80, or this could have been a triple-function system. Unless you can find a test ROM that doesn't use any of the modified opcodes.
Whoa Ben made a IC sandwich? My mind is blown I always saw him try to make everything smaller.
And doing all that wiring I'd be pretty much the same I would be my brain is mush and would be going cross eyed from it. xD
I would love to see this kind of explanation to the BIG BANG THEORY Episode, A great battle with Sheldon Cooper. hahahahaha! #THEBIGHECKTHEORY
he didn't show it working with either type of cartridge in. he just shorted the lines
make the brain join by using plug in brain chips wired together ---- love to see that hack!