Ep. 46 - Proper alignment | DOLBY ATMOS Dont's | Home Theater Setup | Home Theater Gurus.
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- Опубликовано: 5 дек 2021
- 👉✅Don't HURT your ATMOS sound!! Proper alignment of Dolby ATMOS Home Theater Speakers. Home Theater Dolby ATMOS Setup tip.
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Glad to see my long installed Atmos system is fairly correct. Love getting more detailed and indepth stuff without the typical audiohole treatment. Will be watching. This was the first video of yours I have watched.
Absolutely spot-on! I'm going to be checking my Atmos speakers immediately. And I have a feeling I'll be making some changes I also think I'm going to do away with the in- ceilings and buy the corresponding bookshelves that'll go with my setup.
Is there a reason why you want to go away from the in ceiling speaks?
And that's why we call you "The Guru" Great Video.
Ha, Thanks Stacks!
Thanks again man. You're what I call a 'practical expert'.
Thanks MSK!!
Thank you. V E R Y refreshing to see someone taking their Front Heights seriously for a change. It's amazing how many high-end setups don't do this!!! Also great that you address dispersion (But please dude - At least get non-reflective dark carpet at the front. You won't regret it:)
Thanks! And the new carpet is in and I think you'll definitely approve! I didn't like that carpet either. 😁
I need to start putting some thought into what I'm going to do for Atmos speakers. The LRC stuff is all pretty well finalized but I haven't even finalized my plan for the surround much less Atmos. I was in the camp of thinking Atmos is probably not very critical but you're probably right, I should build something decent for them.
I’ve watched soooo many videos on this topic. This is the best and only one we need to setup Atmos!!
Thanks peerguy!
I used a laser pointer to align mine, I used top centre line of bookshelves, reclined my seat to listening position and adjusted speakers until laser was pointing a little off set to my ear position, allowing centre of bookshelves to be focused directly on my ears, worked a treat, my 4 atmos bookshelf speakers are the same bookshelves as my rear's and side's are, all Accusound 8.6xd 200w 8ohm 90db, I also aligned all my other speakers like it, the tow in of polk signature series s60 fronts are spot on, I thought about using string or a long straight edge being my tape measure, then I remembered my little laser I had, worked it's magic really well. Your laser level use looked good too, but a laser pointer I believe works better Stephen.
hello im about to mount some bookshelfs from the ceiling too and i think the lazer level set to the cross beam would be best to get the horizontal plane even and the center point of each speaker aimed spot on like you said im going to mount the level on the speakers to aim them and level them with the seat
@@NeBoFoRiOn mine laser has only a dot, so yours would be better again, good luck, have fun lining them up, then enjoy 😁
Very good idea with the laser thingy ;)
Hoping i can build a small 5.1.2 home theater in the next 5 years. Definitely plan on getting bookshelf speakers for the 2 atmos and putting them on brackets on the ceiling.
Thanks for bringing up the issues around dispersion issues derived from sound coming from two locations. This is why I prefer to use point-source (KEF) loudspeakers with completely uniform dispersion.
Yep that is definitely a nice thing about coaxials.
My theater is all Revel and I'm using their outdoors (M55XC) in the same way. In my floor joists they are able to aim directly at the main listening position.👍 Center points of all bedrock speakers are at ear level in my small theater the Atmos effects on the demo discs are incredibly 3 dimensional.
Awwsome video thanks for sharing
Great content as always.
Thanks Joe!!!
Changed my rear speakers to aim above chairs and moved my two sub's a little, recalibrated, and what a difference. Embarrassing since I was watching movies for three years that way. Plan on new theatre build (new home build) but now I'm finding it very difficult to get the "right" speaker. High sensitivity with good off axis dispersion, 8 ohm impedance and handle decent amp wattage all for a reasonable cost. Was going with B&W 606 S2 for rears and B&W in wall for sides and B&W satellites for Atmos since I have 30 year old B&W mains that are outstanding. Then I read some very bad reviews on the 606 S2's and I'm back to square one.
I was thinking going Monoprice THX in-wall for rear (365IW) and sides and then slightly smaller version (265IW) for my "in ceiling" Atmos speakers. Decent reviews and checks all the boxes with exception of rated at 4 ohms which I found to be not a big deal from HTG. I plan on essentially building my own "speaker box" for the 265IW's. They mount horizontally so at a 45 degree angle should sub drop below ceiling 7-8" max. I have an 8' ceiling.
One other thing: investigating speakers has been a nightmare. I go to websites like JBL and they don't list all their speakers? Can't find pricing from other companies on other speakers as well? I have to say most recently the more I investigate speakers the more I keep coming back to Monoprice and Fluance as being the best bang for buck speakers out there by far. Since I'm going in-wall I think Monoprice is a smart move.
Any suggestions or comments?
Great video thanks,
Great points...
Love this Guy
Thanks!!!!!!!
Another awesome vid. Would like to see one on your devs when you have them built, particularly the setup of the 12db boost at 20hz and your thoughts on doing it. I have Lavoce 21s in mine but have not yet put the 20hz 12db boost as it kinda concerns me to boost that much. I have a 2x4HD mini dsp and using Sinbosen FP14000.
Thanks. As for the Dev I'll be tuning them in room so I won't use the stock filter. I will of course us the HPF to protect it. The sub has been along quite a while and is proven so I'd apply it and let er rip!
Great video! Much appreciated! What is your opinion on Klipschs' RP 500-SA Atmos speakers? Also for my Klipsch Atmos speakers what mounting bracket should I use to angle them towards me?
Yep, all my speakers are aimed with a handheld laser level. If nothing else, there is piece of mind knowing that they are EXACT. I aim the speaker though. I make sure that a certain spot on the speaker hits an exact spot on the seat
My thoughts exactly. This is hobby is too expensive to "wing it". :)
It's nice that you care but don't worry noone cares that your laser level is dirty or that you wore the same clothes lol. Just keep up the good work on the videos lol
Ha...Thanks Davidde! Most don't give a flip but I've already had one saying I shouldn't be wearing a beanie inside.. haha. Thanks for watching and glad you like the content!
Good video, I love how you take very technical discussions and present them in an easy to understand manner. I have been thinking about wides and I think they are a good idea but Spare Change has an awesome video where he shows imaging in his video for different movies and how wides are used. Unfortunately even with some native Atmos movies studios don't use wides. Some times they do. For upmixing Dolby does not use neither does Aura but DTS does.
So you really have to look into the cost vs the benefit. I have some speakers I can add to my setup that match my LRC's, but I am looking at needing to buy a new home theater receiver that can do 9.2.4 and we are talking $3-5K+ easy. Eventually I will do it and hopefully studios get smarter about this stuff. Obviously for people with lots of money and have a Trinov processor you can better take advantage of these things...
Thanks.
And you are correct about some native mixes not using them.
However you are incorrect about dsu. The Dolby Upmixer had an update that begin rolling out fall of 2020 (well over a year ago) that allowed dsu to upmix to wides. And it is extremely aggressive. With 5.1 content they're used constantly and every bit if not more than the rears and atmos as there's more information panning up front.
@@hometheatergurus Thanks for sharing that about DSU, ironically I just picked up an Anthem MRX 1140, and will be implementing a full 9.2.6 setup. Super excited to try wides!
@@thillyard1 anthem and arc are awesome. You'll love it!
Would you ever want the tweeter to be on the bottom of the speaker instead of on top when using bookshelf speakers for atmos? I'm looking at doing atmos and surrounds with either the Ascend HTM-200se or the CBM-170SE. I see your atmos has the tweeter on top.
Awesome video as always.
3 questions that maybe you could assist with regarding atmos and seating.
What do you do when you have multiple rows for Atmos speakers? Specifically if you only installing 4?
Yes there is a MLP but we would like at least 2 of the 3 rows to have decent atmos effects.
2nd Question. Regarding multiple rows of seating how do you go about placing the Audesy Mic ? Can you place it at 8 positions far apart so that "circle of seating" gets the best average sound or do u hav to only move the mic no more then 2ft?
Lastly, regarding surrounds and multiple seating, can you parallel the surround side speakers so each row gets same effect?
Thanks again for the awesome work! 🍻
Hey Richard. Personally I wouln't let an overflow row sink the ship. I want the MLP to be uncompromised and perfect. The rear row will still have movement around the room although you can't get every row to be the sweet spot. See the latest video on Atmos mistakes. Also for measuring with Audyssey see ep 44. It's the same for two rows.
What crossover would you recommend for front height speakers?
Nice, bro!
Thanks Alex!
Thanks great info cool hat. I can’t place my SVS rears behind me so they had to go above me because my room is small is that ok?
Excellent . I’m finally getting a bonus room for dedicated home theater. You are indeed an expert and I hope to hire you for design advice,on room.
QUESTION regarding Atmos front facing speakers
I have b&w 805 D3 mains - my surrounds will now be b&w 704 S2. I have b&w IN CEILING 9" speakers with tweeter ( left over from another house) Will these match up , and or be robust enough for my front facing Atmos???
Excellent video although i have no clue why this is in Jack's "Try Not To Laugh" playlist
Thanks, and I don't know this Jack guy. Maybe he wanted to watch my video and saved it in the wrong list..:).. Or maybe i'm worse than I think..haha
@@hometheatergurus I think that he may have saved it in the wrong list but judging that it was added to a list, i think he likes it! here's a link to his playlist :)
ruclips.net/p/PLMBYlcH3smRxOk7Cp_V2ar3QDfvljWvSy
I am so glad Im not the only one who noticed this, ig he's just rly into promoting the proper alignment of speakers to his fans. i'm glad i watched it tho because i have dobly speakers in my living room lmao
Brilliant video.
Well presented
Where would you put 4 height speakers
And front wide speakers please ?
I recognize the PowerDirector BGM at the start! I'm using the same song in my ski videos lol.
Yep, power director it is. All on my phone too. One day I gotta upgrade to a pc version. 😁
@@hometheatergurus The PC version runs like a breeze. That's because it's one of those programs that can cut render times in half by the CPU AND THE GPU. My 3080 actually makes 4 hour renders into 1...
Great video. Did you think making more videos about acoustics and where and why should absorbers and diffusers be used?
Thanks. I have a 4 part series on that.
@@hometheatergurus can't wait
Looking forward to your video on rasiers.
Really liking your videos, just started watching and subscribed now too! One question, knowing angles and degrees are important, sitting 11’ back from screen with a 19’L room, could I place the front and rear atmos 30° From MLP to then not have any speakers apart greater than 60° from front to back and also then not have to add a middle? Thanks!
Yep, you'll see I have a newer video on Atmos mistakes and going to far away is one of them. Also spread them 35 away and try not to go farther. Leave some feedback as I'm compiling feedback on an AVS thread. Here's the link to the mistakes video. Give it a watch. ruclips.net/video/K-rAhyrZCoA/видео.html
Why was this in the jacksepticeye try not to laugh playlist? Lmao
I sure wish I had enough ceiling height for bookshelf Atmos, it is definitely the best option if you can manage it.
Yeah it's only because I was able to work it into the build of the new house. It's not something everyone can do.
I built triangular prisms that go in the corners from the parts express cnote pack. Just didn’t use the mdf it shipped with and built my own cabinets. Takes up less space then hanging bookshelves.
And they only cost $100!
@@NakeanWickliff I am thinking about doing something similar for my DIY HT10's and build the enclosure with am angled back so it mounts flush to the wall bit is angled at the MLP. I would still keep the inside of the enclosed volume of the cabinet the same, just lengthen the sides amd the back piece will be at the appropriate angle.
My ceiling is only 7'9" and I only have 4" of depth to work with due to an existing vent in the joists. I am trying to figure out of I can build am enclosure that goes between the joists up to the vent and maybe stick out about 6" and still somehow get am angle of about 25°, it won't be perfect but better. I also have risers below each Atmos speakers that ears up 11" so not much room to work with. I would be willing to cut out a portion of a joist yo make it work. That is further down my Theater Todo list so we will see when we get there
Your theatre looks great, and keep up with the good videos...! I am currently at the stage of gyprocking my theatre and noticed you said that bookshelf's are better speakers for the Hight channels if able to do so. I also noticed that you use bookshelf's for your surrounds. My question is why not in-walls for the surrounds. I'm trying to decide on the speakers for my setup and was wondering why you choose those for your surrounds.?
Hey SF, thanks. There's a few in ceilings that are really good like the Triad 9 sat. Most have limited aiming.
My bedlayer uses all in walls.
Great content as always! I have SVS Elevation speakers as front heights, should those also be tilted towards the listening position?
Absolutely, those are almost always improperly placed as svs is just selling something easy to sell and people thinks that's the "proper" way to mount them. They're often aimed so far off axis sound takes a huge hit. Aimed on axis they sound quite good.
@@hometheatergurus awesome stuff! Will make sure to do so!
Do you prefer to mount the front and rear height speakers on the walls as opposed to above the seating positions in the ceiling? Or did that just make more sense for you in this room?
Check out the latest video on Atmos mistakes. I covers that very thing and more.
For 7.2.2 on a Denon x3800h should I have the heights at front left & right or center front & rear of the seat?
Hi thats a nice tip to remember with the laser but how i messure the 30 degrees from the lisening position for the hight speakers front and back and do i install the hight speakers above the main front and back speakers ?
See ep 49.
Hello , I have 12’ high cathedral ceilings, would I be better off mounting my prime elevations to the walls above the mains around 8’ H and side walls at same aimed at MLP or mounting from cathedral ceiling per Dolby Atmos specs. Also was wondering how you used your laser level to do your rear heights ? Thank you for your videos and sharing your knowledge
Thanks Tim. See the latest video on Atmos mistakes. It will answer that question and more.
I have enjoyed watching this video, very informative. Is there a plate or some sort of a bracket that I can use with my in-ceiling Height Speakers that will cause these speakers to be on the right angle to the sweet spot? If so, do you know what they are called and best place to purchase them? And by the way, I am new to your channel, but I find a lot of your videos are over my head with data. But a video like this one was perfect; I understood all that you talked about. I appreciate you sir. Take Care, Jeff Ludwig
Hey Jeff, yep the mount I use is in the video description. And yeah a lot of this is advanced but just take your time and it'll all makes sense.
How do I get the most out of my Samsung HW 950N. It doesn't have earc and my new TV will. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Good video. How to decide crossover frequency in 5.1 systems. Only 1 CO of SW given in Yamaha HTR 3072 AVR.
Any suggestions for ceiling mounting jbl 306p mkiis? Im re-doing my whole theater with much help from your videos but im kind of stuck on how to mount those, i have 308p for the front and 306p for surrounds and i want to go matching overheads. Thanks.
Those re great speakers but I'm not sure how I'd tackle that. Maybe a clamp type mount and strapped to it.
Hi what’s a good ceiling brackets for SVS ultra bookshelf!?
Can I get a clarification? In episode 3.5 I think you say to not have your speaker arranged with the driver and tweeter oriented vertically. In this video however it seems like you have yours arranged vertically though. I’m building my home theater now and want to get my atmos speakers placed correctly. Could you let me know if the speaker driver orientation to the mlp (single row in my case) should be horizontal or vertical to the listener?Thanks for making these videos. They’ve helped me immensely!
This video actually backs up 3.5 only in 3.5 we are going over the top middle so our "horizon" is right above us.
@@hometheatergurus Ok thanks for the clarification! So if I'm using top fronts, I need to have them oriented similar to what is seen here in this video? Thanks man!
@@devvin you're welcome.
How do you mount bookshelf’s to your ceilings?
Sorry, I was on my wife's email. I guess I just joined her up. So now I will switch to my email and subscribe..... JL
I switched from my little svs prime elevations (yes they were great) to a full sized bookshelf style speaker with true compression drivers that better match my mains (all JBL) and the difference in immersion was stunning. There is a lot that goes on at times and dynamic range is really critical, especially with higher powered systems with big towers and subs.
One thing you didn't speak of was placement angle position. I have my speakers around the 30-35deg point. Part of this was for Aura3D, the other part was room obstructions (hvac drop vent across 1 side of room). I can only say the lower positioning from standard 45 deg creates a really immersive presentation. Auro3d will say that lower height angle is better as that's more in a tuned hearing range, I don't know, but with Atmos, which is 98% of what I put through, it sounds amazing. Not sure how detrimental that lower mounting angle really is, if at all.
The other thing I did was to set them at equal distance to my mains, almost in an arc. I know I can digitally delay everything but I figure better they are naturally time aligned to my position the better.
Great content as always!!
Thanks Chris!
Yeah those that feel ATmos isn't awesome always have some type of setup issue. BTW we cover placement in ep 3 so that's why I didn't go over that in this one.
If you have a sub would there be no reason to get a full range shelf speaker
@@codychavarria6088 I run a variety of more than average speakers and I can assure you that a sub with a small speaker is not the same as a sub with a larger speaker. While you can take the load off the speakers bass driver and also the amp, there is still a ton of information above the Xover point that needs to be replicated. A larger more capable driver and enclosure can simply do that better. The issue really gets into peaks and how the set up can really drive it. A small 4.5" satellite trying create the 120hrz snap of a bullet hitting something is simply not going to match a tower with dual 8s that can do that same thing way more efficiently. Part of the equation that's often missed is that speaker sound production is not linear. That has to do with a variety of factors to include the amp as well. A typically HT receiver will dip out when really pushed trying to drive power to all speakers at one time.
Again, this gets into expectations and $$$$. I run a rack of qsc CX404 amps for my hieght and surrounds. Those will dump per channel more than most HT reciever will to all speakers. It shocking when you push things just how much content can be there and to see those amps work. My old set up with Denon 4000 series would just Peter out and I would never notice it. Now with more capable speakers and amps, the difference is pretty shocking.
@@chrisj9008 I have dual 12" full Fronts. No need for a full essay
@@chrisj9008 You're talking about atmos correct? We
Pointing any speakers directly at you is minimizing the dispersion of the sound waves, slightly off excess blends in the sound dispersion.
How would you approach atmos with a ceiling that is angled or slopes? I am considering atmos, but your video points out the importance of having the speakers on the same plane as each other. Unfortunately my layout won't allow for that. Is atmos a lost cause for me? Thanks for the video!
Not a lost cause at all. If you can use brackets the angled ceiling is irrelevant. It'll be a little harder to find placement but as long as they are placed per Ep 3 and adjusted per this video you're good to go.
@@hometheatergurus Thanks! Appreciate the insight!
If atmos speakers are directed at the listener, should rear speakers also be directed towards the listener too? I always thought they were supposed to be flat on the wall and above the listener aiming towards the opposite wall
Good questions and yes you are correct. Angle them when you can. When you can't angle them we use wide dispersion speakers and manipulate the reflection on the side wall near them to get great seat coverage.
Um.. why is this in Sean's tntf playlist??
Link to playlist if you're curious:
ruclips.net/p/PLMBYlcH3smRxOk7Cp_V2ar3QDfvljWvSy
How did you mount the bookshelf speakers to allow adjustment manipulation in the various planes? I am looking to do the same but cannot determine an easy wsy to accomplish this. Thanks for a reply.
A few have asked. Look in the description of this video and I added the link to the mount I used.
@@hometheatergurus Yes, I found your description after sending my question. Actually, I will be wall mounting - not ceiling mounting. Consequently, your method will not work for me. Any suggestions?
Would it be possible to use REW and a measurement mic to perform the same pointing exercise? You'd have a test tone on your speaker, measurement mic in the MLP, and simply move the speaker until you get the highest SPL? Maybe it doesn't work that way, I'm new to this 😀
Rew can't test Atmos height directly.
@@billybobby7607 it's not about testing height channels. It's about SPL being highest when the speaker is pointed directly at the mic. Doesn't matter which speaker it is. Just a test tone from that height speaker (played from processor/receiver, not from REW).
@@JimOltman I'm aware of that. Avr/AV pre outputs tones to set levels.
Rew won't be able to output directly to front wides or heights though.
Only way of knowing inroom response would be either use a avr with RTA function or use multi channel stereo mode so get rough idea what's happening.
@@billybobby7607 This video wasn't about in room response. It was about pointing the speakers at the MLP. SPL meter in REW will assist with that.
@@JimOltman only for the 7 speakers
Huh… weird that this was in Sean’s playlist but very cool video nonetheless!
Well a few of guys have found me thanks to Jack this playlist. I have no clue who he is..haha But glad you found the video cool!
I think he probably was on his phone watching this an if you simply just click save it puts it on your most recent playlist. So he probably wanted to save it somewhere else but ended up on the try not to laugh one
The best way to listen to Doby Atmos... in a 13.1.10 config using sub woofers and the Smyth A16.... you won't get anything better...
Dick Bell everyone has different sized and dimensions rooms. For some rooms 2 Atmos ceilings speakers will sound better than 4.
And for a small few with a big room 6 would sound better than 4. Only a very very large room with many rows of seats would more than 6 Atmos ceiling speakers be needed.
@@C--AI use the Smyth A16 ... what its main use is for a studio engineer to be able to take the studio setup to another location so he can produce the movie sound tracks... the way it works is you place the microphones in the location you would listen in the studio while creating the sound tracks... and the A16 sweeps the various speakers in the studio and records the frequency response, location and angle of the speakers... once it records the studio the engineer can take the A16 anywhere he wants and he has the studio recorded in the A16... so he might take it home or another studio... but the A16 replicates the studio he recorded - perfectly.... so I have several studios and several listening rooms available recorded... I can go all the way down to two speakers or go up to 24 speakers in any config... I just happen to use mine at home... as an example... lets say you have a really good stereo shop in town and they just happen to have a listening room setup with a 24 channel Atmos setup.. and lets say that room with speakers cost them $250K to setup.... I just take the A16 to the listening room... set up the mics... let the A16 sweep the speakers and I walk out with that listening room perfectly captured and take it home and just plug it into the wall... it plays back that listening room perfectly... you can't tell the difference... you could set the A16 in a car and it would still sound exactly like that listening room... I can also solo the speakers... so if you want to create a small room or a big room just choose what and how you want... I also have a movie theater that was captured... its a very very cool box ....
What screen are you using and are those masking panels?
And if so did you do a video on them?
It's a Seymour with magnetic masking. Look in the videos of the channel and you'll see a recent video on screens and I show it off.
I'm interested in using my bookshelves as front height channels like this.
But the mounts for bookshelves don't angle down far enough to the listening area.
What kind of mounts are you using?
I put a link to them in the description.
Why was this in jacks try not to laugh playlist?
Nice video and I have a question. I get it with the dispersion. But what to do when I have only 2 speakers on the ceiling. I have similar speakers as shown but only 2 not 4. Dolby says that for 2 speakers it should be around 80degrees in front of you which means the speakers are near in front of your head. Wouldn't it be better if I flip the speakers von vertikal to horizontal to get the best dispersion? It seems to make sense when they are more away like the 40 degree rule. Do you know what I mean?
Hey RC. If they are overhead the speakers would be aligned with the tweeter and woofer facing front to back of the room. Pretend the mains and the floor are shifted up higher and higher while you recline back . This will ensure the vertical dispersion is aligned with the seats. So it's still the same principle in the video.
@@hometheatergurusthanks. That's the way I did it until yesterday at the moment I try the auro layout with 30 degree angle. And it's awesome. Espacially with the upmixer. Do you guys try that?
It’s more efficient and effective to simply place the pointer on the speaker with blue or grey sticky putty above/below the tweeter. Then adjust the speaker until it is pointing at whatever target you like.
I bet a nerf dart would work well.
thats what i was thinking too im gona mount the lazzer level to the speaker in the cross hair mod
I sure would like to see where the others Atmos speakers are mounted!
You can see the whole room being built in the build videos and theater walk through video. It shows the top rears as well.
Nice one 👍🏻 Though I'll be honest I thought it was 8 mile era Eminem presenting at first!
😂.. Sorry I can't sing..:)
@@hometheatergurus 😂
holy poo...thanks, I'm just getting a Marantz 7013 and will be doing a 7.1.4 Atmos setup, I'll be following you, oh, is the laser the redline across the top of speaker?
You're welcome! Just parallel with the top so you know the speaker is horizontally lined up with the row of seats.
I just subscribed cause you know what your talking about but I have a question is there an advantage of keeping all the speakers the same brand or going by what sounds the best to your ear?
Hey Jean, same brand means nothing but it does great for manufacturers trying to make a sale. You want the same drivers if possible, same speaker is best. The more the drivers differ the more the speaker differs. Now that doesn't mean if it's using different drivers it's audibly going to sound different but it's not timbre matched any more than another brand using similar drivers. Keep them the same if possible but if you can't don't let it keep you up at night unless you can really tell it's off. This is assuming the speakers are all accurate or using full range EQ. For instance Some brands bloat the bottom end on purpose so before EQ they won't blend well with an accurate speaker.
Great tips as always! The home theater is coming along really nice.
Thanks Kurt. I need to shoot a room update ASAP.
Good day Captain Guru!
I need your advice please... Up to 30 feet, it's not too difficult to choose a necessary wire gauge for speaker cables... but it's more the long runs that are questionable for me. Therefore in my case, I need to install a 75 foot run to my rear Atmos speakers... is 12 gauge OFC sufficient for this lenght? Some info out there mentions that 10 gauge might remove quality of sound on the highs (mid-range and tweeter)... is this true to your knowledge? Or is 10 AWG what I should install instead of 12 AWG?
My Atmos installation as rear heights will be Canton AR-500's (4 - 8ohms) powered by my AVR Onkyo RZ-50, and I set the AMP impedance at 6 to 8 Ohms (rather than set at 4 to 6 Ohms).
Please help me choose the right gauge (AWG) before I purchase the speaker wire, since I will need a CL2 rated wire for in-wall installation.
Thank you in advance! Perry
Yeah 12 gauge all copper is fine for that distance.
@@hometheatergurus Thank you, your input and videos are much appreciated!
In your opinion, Is there any science behind loosing sound quality because a speaker wire may be too thick for the run in gauge...? If so, how?
Can you comment on why so many say that in-ceiling speakers are best for Atmos? Your logic that the same kind of speaker would be best sounds compelling but I am too new to the scene to really say.
If the speaker can't be aimed at the MLP it's not a good atmos option. Find something else even if it's not the same brand. Brands don't make them timbre matched BTW, that's marketing. To be timbre matched they need like drivers and you need to be on axis.
Also, because of the way sound is despersed through speakers, if your brackets for your Atmos speakers can only go to 18 degrees or so, your better off placing your Atmos speakers on their sides for wider despersion on the vertical axis.
No you wouldn't want to do that as vertical dispersion is very limited. We're often closer to atmos speakers so the seats are spanned over a wider dispersion of degrees than say the center channel. That can work OK to get one maybe 2 centered seats in the vertical sweet spot but for a row or multi row that's definitely not a good option.
Some seats would have OK sound and others would have nulls and sound vastly different.
I'm guessing you didn't watch the video as we covered this.
If your bracket is limited to 15 degrees throw it away and get a good bracket. There's no sense in having bookshelves for Atmos and poorly placing them.
@@hometheatergurus okay, I have my Atmos speakers as a Elac Unifi and have them placed in an auro 3D layout. But I agree I need a better braket with a better angle. Know any that will support 18 pounds?
@@hdmoviesource I've had another ask for a link to what I used. I'm about to add it to the description. They're rated to like 90lbs.
@@hometheatergurus I appreciate it thanks Guru 👍.
Boom! First to like😂
You and Justin are gonna have to flip a coin....Hmm
In your opinion is Auro 3D worth or any common format placement for Atmos, DTS & Auro
This is really led by the industry which Atmos dominates. To hear what the Atmos studio heard requires you to setup atmos similar to the studio. The other formats are so different in layout that atmos played back with those layouts is very lacking with weak overhead effects, smearing to the bedlayer and misplaced objects. See the newer atmos videos I've put out.
What speakers were those you used as Atmos & why those over Silver Sat 9's ?
Those are silver sats so they're identical to what I have for the rest of the bedlayer. See the build videos on the channel for room and system info and see it as it was built. I do have Sat 9s for top middle and use those for atmos in most of my rooms. Few rooms can accommodate bookshelves on brackets and hide them as I can here. For an in ceiling the Sat 9 is frankly in a class by itself as it's a wide dispersion but also capable of hitting a MLP even 70 degrees off axis.
I have to ask... Why do you have your height rows spaced so far apart? Were you trying to align them with the mains? The renderer's expectation is 1/4 and 3/4 of the layout width irrespective of the mains, which is why they tend to fall in line with the additional screen channels between L/C and R/C in the theater and mix room. Seems like if you had them at the right spacing, you wouldn't need to tow them in as much to get adequate seat-to-seat dispersion. With them that wide apart, are you at Dolby's recommended angular separation from the side surrounds (45 degrees + half the elevation of the sides)?
They will seldom be aligned with the mains. It's all angle based and these are 12' ceilings. The acoustic center of the tops are about 10" below 12' which is what was used to lay them out.
If the ceiling were 8' they'd be much closer.
@@hometheatergurus When you say angle based... Are you saying you went 45 degrees off the lateral to place your height rows? Or did you use the theatrical/mix room math that references the side surrounds?
These are closer to 35 off the 0 center mark which is 70 degrees of separation. As for the placement forward and back that is based off the angle of the bedlayer which doesn't sit on the 0-180 line as most think.
@@hometheatergurus Cool. I guess because of the taller ceiling height, they look wider apart than they really are.
@@TheReverendSlim yep. I design home theaters and most of the rooms are not this tall. In an 8 foot tall room they'd be acsoutically the same place but much closer together physically.
Just buy good speakers from the start and point them towards the center of your seating. Run the alignment program and your done. All my speakers are able to be moved inside there boxes and able to be targeted to the center of your seating.
What gets me is people always aim for making their home theater sound like a big commercial theaters, why? They sound like crap even if you hit their sweat spot. Most home theaters only have 2 rows of seating, I am one of the few exceptions as I have 5 rows of 7, but even mine has its sweat spot, and yes it is my seat and is where the main control is located. (Yah I built my own personal theater with a 25’ screen).
But why any one would want theirs to sound like a commercial theater is a mystery, they have to cover all their seats with sound and they always fall short as you will sacrifice certain channels because of the large seating area. Before I built my dedicated building (and I built it not a contractor) I think I had better sound as far as speaker placement as with a larger theater I had to space out the channels more to in compass the entire room which is 35x50’ long. I am running a IMAX Enhanced system with Auro-3D, and even with that I find gaps, which are the sides. You either get hit with a lot of sound from one side and very little of the other side, same problem as the big commercial setups but mine is not as bad. I had to get speakers that were capable of moving multiple speakers in the same location to cover 3 areas, front, middle, and back without the side channels blasting the listener at that location, and I am able to decrease the sound in the one speaker that say supplies the listener on the left side while the right speaker is higher up and aimed at the listener on the left shooting over the person on the right and viceVersa, they make a X pattern with a speaker at the listener level lower so the sound comes out so they can hear both left and right without one channel blowing them out of the seat. Maybe one day I will do a video and post it on RUclips. But I had the added difficulty because Auro-3D has three levels of sound, low, high, and the voice of God (Atmos ceiling speakers) which also have multiple speakers for each to aim in different areas of the audience, each speaker is tuned and speaker volume levels increased and decreased to either add more volume to further away seats and less to cover seats that are closer. Yah my rack of amps is 7’ tall and weighs almost 1000 pounds, 25 channels takes a few amps to say the least, and also a lot of cooling, being so confined in a server cabinet causes them to build a lot of heat quickly if not properly ventilated, there is a 2nd cabinet for the processors and various players.
But I am trying to convey hear is, that aim your speakers in smaller homes theaters hit hit the center of the seating area, have speakers that have enough coverage to get all your seats as much as they can, as you get further away from the speakers, the more area they will cover, but you will also loose volume at distance, which any listeners close to that channel will get more volume than the people further away making it hard for them to hear the other channels. And the more channels you add the harder it will be to cover each area with a equal balance of sound.
Yeah we've covered all of that on this channel. Sounds like you didn't watch the video. This is about understanding vertical and horizontal dispersions and making sure we have the speakers aligned so good horizontal dispersion is being spewed across the seating area. * before you write a book maybe watch the video and other videos on the channel as it's all been covered* Would have saved you a lot of typing.
Do to need a special processor for top middle speaker?
Any processor or AVR with ATMOS and the number of channel processing you need can do top middle.
so like was said in coment below would it be the easyest to mout the lazer laevel to the bottom of the speaker make shore its inline with speaker ofcourse and then aim it at the hot seat and level the line with the top of the chair or back of couch what ever and useing the center vertical line to aim it directly at the hot spot would this not work u would have to alow for the difference in hight form the lazer beam to the center of speaker or what ever point you wanted to be inline with
That would definitely work. I'm not sure it's easier than shoving the laser between the seat head rests but whatever gets you there!
So at the start of this video it's saying use bookshelf speakers and not the little Atmos speakers?
That's just what I have in this room. In my living room I have angled in ceilings. This video is just explaining how to properly use bookshelves if you're using them. They do have the benifit of being able to aim to taste where very few in ceilings can do that. I know of one, the Triad 9 sat that can be dialed in like a bookshelf.
I use bookshelf speakers as atmos speakers as well, they are the same as my surround speakers. But i only have a 5.1.2 system, therefore i need to place my atmos much closer because they are top middle and not top front and top rear. They are actually just in front around 2 feet above me but pointed downwards, just wandering if i will benefit to point and toe them in at my lp.
Absolutely.. They should be positioned with the woofers toward the front wall and tweeters towards the back and toed in. Recline back and treat them like they're a pair of mains.
So placing a speaker on top of a tower facing the ceiling is a waist then? Like towers that have a Atmos speaker built on the top.
Anything that improves the experience isn't a waste. Modules are fine if that's all you can or want to do. They don't compare to properly mounted atmos but they are definitely better than nothing.
Would a pair of bi poles work on top of the towers or bookshelf speakers are better 🤔
Is there any other method of doing this? I would love to check my speakers but haven't got that laser thingy
No where near as easy but old fashioned tape measures, string & spirit levels work
You could recline the seats and go behind them and use a ruler or some kind of straight edge . Hold it up so you can make sure the two speakers tops are parallel to your straight edge. Of course if they're off this would suck going up and down, checking, back up and down, checking. But it would work.
@@hometheatergurus Thanks for the quick responses. I'll try it right away
I've never heard someone call a beanie a "sock hat" is that what they call them down south?
Who knows, I may have made that up. It's my winter hair and yes oddly enough it warms me up. 😆
Edit... I just googled "sock hat" and it pulls up beanies. I guess I didn't make it up .. :)
What happens if i use high end coaxial speakers only?
you'll not need to worry about aiming the horizontal off axis as the off axis is the same in all directions. You just need to aim them at or beyond (cross aiming) the MLP.
I thought for atmos speakers have to be close the seats, above our heads.
What mounting brackets are you using for the ceiling speakers? Can you provide a link for those or are they custom made? Thanks
I'm about to add a link in the description.
Did anyone else get here from a jacksepticeye playlist.
Hmm so now we are in line with the auro 3 D set up now between 30 & 40 degrees
This is an atmos setup and Dolby guidelines are used to place them. We cover placement in ep 3. This video is on alignment and understanding speaker dispersion.
What is between 30 and 40 degrees?
Dope.. Where are you guys located
I'm in Louisiana
So in wall speakers installed 8’ ceilings aren’t very good in your opinion.
No, atmos must be aimed or prepare for disappointment. Also you need to be on the horizontal dispersion of the speaker unless it's coaxial then the dispersion is the same 360 degrees around it..
When do we see those devastators?
I can't wait either. Probably 2 to 3 months. I have a few weeks left on the house. I'm finishing the master shower, then a few small things to do. Then I'll need a few weeks to be as lazy as possible. Then once drivers come in I'll be on em!
Be even better I think if you could attach a laser level to the speaker box face.
Bestbuy guy told me to just put the atmos on top of my standing speakers and bounce them off the ceiling. Told him i have popcorn ceiling...
Whoever that kid is that told you that, never ask him another question :). The guys at those stores are salesmen and that's it. Some may be in the hobby as well but that doesn't mean the info is good. In this case you were given really bad info. If you want atmos, reflection modules should only be considered if you can't use any other method but understand they pale in comparison to actual speakers. You're not going to hear what the studio intended but a smeared faint version of it that's not going to wow you. See ep 49 for proper placement.
Just remind people that Atmos speakers do not give constant sound..it's purely object based and only plays when sound is put in to that channel
When watching native atmos sure if the mix isn't aggressive. When upmixing this isn't true at all. Upmixers are quite aggressive and they are used pretty much non stop.
@@hometheatergurus need to make that clear in your videos.
Otherwise people playing actual true Atmos movies will be wondering why they don't get constant sound.
It ain't that serious, good in- ceiling atmos speakers are fine...you could also put height speaker at the sides on the wall if ceiling mounting is not feasible.
True, some don't care if they get the best sound their gear is capable of. Some are happy not knowing, some however want to squeeze everything they can from what they have. So while it may not be serious to you other it's a big deal. The difference audibly can be huge.
Why is this in Jacksepticeye’s try not to laugh playlist…?
Are you going to be giving home demos when you’re fully built?
Yep, by appointment of course..:). I'm a Triad dealer and design Theaters so this is actually the demo room for the business.
@@hometheatergurus That's AWESOME. I sure wish that I could travel this winter to see your new home and theater room. Hell, maybe I should just send you my resume, pack up and head south! :-)
Sir my room size 15x9 please point of sattelite speaker placement 7.2 dolby atmos. 15x9 ft . Front 15 ft side 9ft height 9ft. From india. 😊