Has A Demo Ever Changed Your Mind? Did A Listening Audition Change Your Purchase Plans?
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Starting off this video by quoting James Tanner (Bryston CEO), "The Demo Is Everything", Chief Product Officer Andrew Welker asks if a demo has ever changed your mind? After all, at the end of the day, it's how good something sounds to your ears.
Including a walk down memory lane to when Andrew was a university student and auditioned equipment in New York City and had his mind changed. Looking forward to your thoughts and comments on this, and do follow Andrew's example, and don't name and shame, just share your experiences.
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For many years I worked in car audio, and for years after that I worked in a used goods store where a huge variety of used home loudspeaker‘s came through. After being able to compare so many speakers, I found myself repeatedly drawn to older, warm, transparent, bright and lively British made speakers with extremely thin lightweight paper cones and dome tweeters. As a sidenote, in the 90s, there was a marked difference in sound quality between different car audio head units. It seemed like both the amplifier and DAC’s in brands such as Sony, JVC, Kenwood, we are noticeably poor compared to those of Alpine, Pioneer, and Clarion decks of this time. Some premium high end decks of this time used burr brown DA converters which were mind blowing at the time. There was about six of us sales people, and we all agreed about these differences in sound.
That’s a really cool perspective from inside the car audio business! I also remember Alpine and Clarion head units being top of the heap at that time…but quite a bit more expensive too.
I had not ever heard of Bryston Speakers. When at a demo session of a number of well known speakers one day, there was a pair of Bryston Middle T speakers. I was so impressed with these, I took them home to try out. At home they were so good that I decided to buy a pair of Model T's without even hearing them. The Model T speakers are like Middle T's on steroids. I took it up one more level by converting my Model T speakers over to the fully active inputs and bypassing the internal cross over networks and using the PX-1 external cross overs which was another major step up!
That's a great story and I'm happy to hear you're enjoying your Model Ts!
The demo is best way to experience what you may not know and the surprise of discovery.
My love for audio/video grew out of working in a theatrical venue. When attending an Audio/Video show I had a great surprise while listening to several quality home speaker brands. There was some music playing nearby and I asked the salesperson to stop the demo. He glanced over and said "Oh yeah that's a new company. You should give it a listen". I was floored by the depth, detail of sound and build quality. Being new, the manufacturer was offering fantastic prices. I immediately purchased a pair of bookshelves and used them over the next 15 years.
Since then I continued to upgrade my system and was finally ready to upgrade to home theatre. After checking out many products and reading pro reviews I arranged for a demo of Axiom speakers at an owner's home. And it was during the demo I was thrilled by the same feeling I had when I first listened to the bookshelf speaker. Only this time it was the M80 tower speaker with the QS8's. I bought 4 QS8's and a pair of M80's. Later I added a VP180 center plus other various audio/video components to round out my current Home Theatre System.
When playing movies or music I love to watch peoples reactions and share in their joy and discovery of awesome audio/video.
Glad the Axiom speakers demo went so well for you! There is really nothing better than sharing that love of great sound with people and letting them experience music and movies in a whole new way. Theatrical venue work will absolutely get you to experience sound in a great way. Thanks for sharing!
There were many other perks working for live theatre. I borrowed a Bryston amp (4 series) and hooked up to my Bluray directly to the amp then out to my M80's. This was truly an OMG moment when listening to music. The soundstage was perfectly three dimensional. The presence and environment was just like being their in the flesh. Going forward this experience gave me great insight when choosing my preamp/amp selection and setup. The demo is key to many endeavors - just like in this experience.
@@bsand3025 fantastic perks! Sounds like you had a really magical moment with the Bryston M80 combo, thanks for sharing!
Worst demo ever was listening to a pair of $6000 Genesis 3's; it was strident and boomy at the same time. The Thiel CS3.6 (an average loudspeaker by today's standards) we compared it against was positively brilliant in comparison. It shocked me that an audio salon could carry terrible products and pass it off as aspirational.
Best demo was the Nuance 330's, one of the first mainstream manufacturers to use a tweeter wave guide and flush mounting of the grill to eliminate diffraction. I was aware of what was going on with the "Nuance Nuke", which was a demo using Q-Sound recordings. Still, it impressed. I eventually bought a pair at a discount and used them in my main listening system for the next 20 years. The demo might have had questionable ethics, but the product was not in question.
To answer your question: YES! Some years ago, when I was planning the purchase of new speakers for a major Canadian planetarium, we realized that reading reviews and speaker specifications was not going to help us decide what we needed. So, I arranged for a shootout in that star theatre. We brought in speakers from all of the manufacturers who supply to rooms that size. We had first generation audio tapes of music mixes that we’d used in our shows, plus audio special effects (very loud or very quiet), and some tracks made by our in-house composer. At the push of a button we could compare each of the speakers. The volume was adjusted so the output of all of the speakers was equal. We were very surprised at the results. The first surprise was the speaker we thought would be the winner was, at best, just okay. There was only one standout. And you didn’t need to be an expert to hear how wonderful it was. We were making a lot of noise in the theatre, and lots of people came by to experience our audio pyrotechnics. Everyone agreed which speaker was the winner. This was a long time ago, I think it was 1976, so our results would not be valid today. You probably want to know our winner: JBL. Our composer loved the tight and textured reproduction of the bass in his music. Everyone could hear the clarity and fidelity of all of our test tracks. I left that gig before the purchase was made, so I don’t know the end of this story. But the shoot-out was a wonderful audio experience.
Generally, I don't buy major audio components without an in-store or factory demo. There have been exceptions: cartridges; phono stage; turnatable; SACD player; sub-woofer. The reasons vary. With cartridges, the stores I visited do not audition their entire lines for obvious reasons (i.e. there are a ton of them), so I rely on reviews and have found them to be accurate. For my phono stage, I went with a recommendation. I bought my turnatable from a friend so I knew what I was getting. The SACD player, bought according to reviews. Same with the sub, although the manufacturer did allow returns if unsatisfactory. Fortunately, these components all turned out to be good choices. For amps and speakers, I insist on demos. And I thank the good folks at Axiom (speakers) for their patience (and the tour!).
Glad you enjoyed the tour! Thanks for sharing how you demo and purchase.
I was lucky enough to grow up in an era where there were numerous brick and mortar stores where I could listen to various pieces of equipment. Even though whatever I was looking for, especially when it came to speakers, they almost never sounded like they did at the store when I got them home. I'm sure it was not only the equipment used at the store, but also my set up location and room acoustics were different at home. There usually wasn't a restocking fee back then, and if there was, it was very minimal. Restocking fees on some internet purchases that don't have a physical store location to return them to can be quite high, which I found out by trying some different headphones that I was interested in that weren't available locally to see if I liked them before purchasing them.
It was a great era when we could hit the brick and mortar stores to listen. Sorry to hear your experiences with headphones, hopefully you did end up with a pair that worked well for you.
Hi Andrew i can totally relate to your experience. I too have listened to countless mega buck setups & walking away from these setups thinking wtf. To a point when i visited people who owns super hi end stuff i have to keep telling myself oh just because its hi end doesn’t mean its going to suck. Back in the day we also did alot of shootouts. I vividly remember this particular one because it literally shocked all those who were there on that day. An expensive popular american pre amp was compared to a cheap budget integrated that was used as a pre amp & the budget amp really showed the expensive pre amp a clean pair of heels. Feet were tapping, the music was alive in spades & really showed us what music making was all about. The music made sense in itself. With the expensive pre amp, everything sounded cloudy, slow, ponderous & could not elicit the slightest joy or purpose out of the music. 7 pairs of ears were really shocked upon hearing this. A few of my friends who have knowledge in electronics engineering told me that expensive hi end audio equipment are often over engineered & over engineering is poor engineering so that is probably why many big, heavy and super expensive amps sound so unmusical.
After watching many RUclips speaker reviews I went to a Klipsch Dealer with a plan of buying a pair of Klipsch Cornwall speakers, I hand made my mind up on buying the Cornwall speakers, but that littles voice in my head told me to demo them and maybe demo the Forte IV's. I left with a purchase order for the Forte IV's which was a better choice for me. I liked their sound quality and size over the Cornwalls. So demoing an expensive audio component was a wise thing to do.
I actually had the Axiom flagship speakers for awhile, on loan from a friend. The dual driver towers. Quite nice. But back then I didn't have the coin.
Closest to that is I was looking at Focal Aria 906s. Since they had their Chora 806s out and available I listened to those too. My ears could not discern $1000 difference and I went with the Choras.
That makes it easy when you hear both and don't hear the $1,000 difference.
Please keep reminding folks, as a courtesy, to like and subscribe...
Some of us are older and need the remi ders so as not to forget. ✌
I remember being back in University and going with an older sister to audition PSB speakers. I remember how blown away I was with the segment from Star Trek VI when the Klingon mining planet of Praxis exploded and the shock wave moved from front speakers to back /surround speakers. WOWWW that was so cool for that time. 1991 I think. Left an impression on me. Been a theatre nut ever since.
Good video THX.
Thank you so much…and thank you for the reminder to everyone reading! I also fondly remember the first time I heard a good home theatre setup…back in the days of the original Dolby Pro-logic.
In the mid 80's I heard some Polk audio home speakers that almost blew my hair back. The SDA-SRS, they were about 6' tall with a 15" passive radiator. There were 8 / 6.5 inch drivers and 4 / 1" dome tweeters. At very low volumes, you heard everything very cleanly and the bass was prevalent. Polk claimed back then, I looked up an old article just now....... And I quote…… Each SDA-SRS system has the bass radiation of a 40-inch woofer! At higher volumes it was clean, clean , clean and the walls were rumbling without hurting your ears, it was pretty surreal and impressive. I couldn't afford them and was actually there to listen to Polk 6 x 9 car speakers. They had won an award for being the best sounding 6 x 9's. I purchased the 6 x 9's and had to travel to a high end audio dealer in Birmingham Michigan just to hear them.
Thanks for sharing you demo experience, sounds like it was worth your time.
Ja, I can so relate to pivotal moments listening to equipment. After 2 decades of HiFi abstinence a random visit to a dealer got me reconnected with a old hobby. He ran a pair of Martin Logan powered by Burmester. The amount of imaging of this combo really stunned me and finally lead my back to the joy of listen instead of just hearing.
Welcome back to the audio hobby, enjoy the music!
One word Naim perhaps one of the first times id heard what a good system can do, though having been to a few hifi shows im usually underwhelmed at what"s playing illustrating just how important the actual room your listening in actually is.
Thank you Andrew. It's rare that I don't sit through your informative vids. With that said, your "demo" subject is a nice change from the audio "X's" & "O's" we come to expect. I was fortunate enough to attend Axiom's anniversary weekend. Ian had set an A/B with their M3 (not sure of the version) and a B&W's Diamond bookshelf (pair). The B&W was 5 times the M3 price and not only only did the M3 compete, I believe 1/2 of the participants selected the Axiom model. Eye opening for sure. A very interesting and enlightening experience. Moreover, I demoed a pair of Martin Logan Motion 15i at a retail site. a few years back (I believe that was the model No.). For me that day I was unimpressed. Had a veiled sonic quality. Quite surprised. My Axiom M2v3"s are better. Best to you and Axiom.
Thanks for your kind words, Rich! That pair of B&Ws actually belonged to my brother...he too was surprised.
Martin Logan electrostatic speaker. Was considering it and great for vocals/acoustic, but when I played some electronica through them, it was a complete disaster. So went with "normal" speakers instead. B&W headphones were also an immediate reject. Most of my equipment has been bought unheard. I spend a lot of time reading everything I can, and then pull the plug. So far no immediate fails, but I have no reference to what any system could sound like, have only been serious about it for about 4 years. So far every upgrade has been an improvement. B&W CM6S2 -> Pearlacoustics Sibelius (wow!), Thorens POS -> VPI SPS (I rest my case), Rotel 1572 integrated to separates (Primaluna EVO 300, PassLabs XA25, HoloAudio May L2: Duh!), Vincent PHO701 -> EAT e-glow petite (noticeable).
First time I stumbled upon the Axiom name ( magazine I think ) and read about them, my first reaction was " No way I buy speakers without listening first " But I was intrigued and searched out as many reviews as I could find. I couldn't find a bad review. So I needed a new centre channel speaker and ordered one from Axiom. After it arrived in a few days and I tried it out, it wasn't long before I ordered a pair of M60's eventually followed by a pair of Q's for our surround system.
But Axiom aside, my preference is to hear speakers in person. And I have absolutely walked in to a store to buy a specific brand and model, only to walk out because I thought they sounded terrible. When I'm not in the market to buy, I don't pay a lot of attention to what is happening in the audio world.
Unlike some audiophiles , I listen to the music, not the gear . So I will put a lot of time into researching , listening and buying a new system to try to get the best possible setup for the money ( budget ). If you take your time, you might be able to upgrade for no additional money because something ( better model ) is on sale. When all else fails, pour another glass and turn the volume up. Merry Christmas Andrew and fellow readers
Glad the home audition went so well with the centre channel, thanks for sharing this story, much appreciated! I had to re-learn to listen to the music, not the gear, when I'm at home and not working. After all that's the whole point of the audio hobby. Cheers for you and yours and a very Merry Christmas.
Yes, and the final result of the demo was ultimately unfortunate. This was in the mid-1970s, before TIM distortion had been adequately recognized or understood. I was considering purchasing some ESS speakers, which had the Heil tweeters. In the demo, those speakers sounded harsh, compared with other brands, so I didn't buy them. Later on, I learned that they sounded that way, because they were reproducing the distortion from the amp, which the other speakers weren't able to do. If I HAD bought them, I no doubt would have been very happy, because I was using a Dynaco ST-70 with a PAS pre-amp. Those used tubes, and didn't have the TIMD problem.
🤣🤣Back in the day I had ESS 3b Studio Monitor Towers and went to see what Bose 901's sounded like. For the price/back in 81 I believe - $1750 CAN plus $1250 for the EQ. Whatever bass they had(near none) was very muddy - as in zero dampening factor. I kept the ESS for years to come. Been looking for some rebuilds a while ago and only thing I can kinda find is what is called 3b Rock Monitors?? Just found you folks, and surprised that I have never heard of your company before, could be that I am kinda outa date. Rock on👍👍
Yes, when bricks and mortar audio shops had demo rooms (and service technicians on hand) I have evaluated 2 quality speakers, one a full-range electrostatic and the other a full-range ribbon and it confirmed my belief why the electrostatic was superior. On another occasion, I auditioned two moving-coil loudspeakers one domestic and one British, driven by quality electronics and the very expensive British speaker did not fare so well when I expected it to shine. Yes the Demo is important.
So very true...thank you for sharing your experiences.
The best demo I ever experienced was for a pair of Mordaunt Short ms35ti two way speakers at a hi-fi shop back in '89. Never heard such a wide and tall sound stage coupled with incredible imaging from a pair of small loudspeakers. Still regret to this day not buying them. The worst demo was last week when I went to check out a power amp but the speakers used were B&W bookshelves that sounded absolutely dreadful. I believe they were defective. I still bought the amp (Acurus a150) and have since been rewarded with amazing sound.
Thanks for sharing your demo experiences.
After a year and a half of traveling from store to store listening to different systems I was never really impressed with anything I heard, I knew somewhat what I was expecting from a system but I never actually heard a system that gave me what I wanted in music playback and I just gave up.
A year later I went to a shop in Vancouver with a friend who was picking up a amp. so I asked the sales guy, this is my budget and his is the kinda of sound I'm looking for???
He put me in a room with a pair of mirage M3s, it took 15 seconds and I was sold.
Now today I live in an apartment and starting all over again. I'll never be able to play the mirage again in this space but I still have them
Cheers
Your story is similar to mine. I actually purchased a pair of Mirage M-3s just before I started university and had to go easy on restaurants and beer for a few semesters...but it was worth it! I still have mine too, although the time has come to get them in the hands of someone else that will enjoy them.
Oh yes. I compared a Denon DVD player to a Denon CD player playing the same audio cd in a showroom and the CD player was far superior to the DVD player.
Bought my M5HPS without a demo, they sounded like crap out of the box…2 weeks later,after breaking in the speakers and my ears they sounded like audio heaven. So is that the reason for a 30 day home trial??? Lol 😊
Axiom is in a bit of a different predicament than products sold at retailers, so we need to make sure that the demo comes to you. There really is no substitute for listening in your own environment.
old in yrs but relatively new into audio. Actually, very little experience with "demos" but I do a relatively large amount of research.
Welcome to the audio hobby, it's a rewarding one when it's all about the music!
Yep, many times.
Sounds like you were listening to a B"L" ose system! So many people think that they are the be-all-end-all and two tin cans and a string would sound better. Never needed a demo. With modern Audyssey EQ type systems you can make just about any speakers sound decent/good, even Blose!
No, it was not that company!
You know what would be great? If Axiom answered their phones, returned voicemails, or returned emails. I have a broken amplifier that needs replacement parts, but even after multiple phone calls, voicemails, and emails, no one from axiom has replied. What’s going on over there?
Be happy to help you. There isn't a way to direct message on RUclips, so if you are on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter, would you please direct message your name and phone number and / or email and will get someone to follow up with you.
Pointless unless done in your home listening environment.
Do you have place we can auditioned your speakers rather then order a pair ?
There are people on our forums who offer their place to audition:
www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php/topics/184230/auditioning-axioms-in-your-area#Post184230
If you're near Milton, Ontario, @matadoreyeworksopticalboutique has a pair of our bookshelf speakers, believe they are M2s.
Otherwise the 30-day in home trial is the best bet.
People who can't support their claims with a sound demo are grifters.