There's something Cheryl Strayed wrote about this that stuck with me. She said that if people ask what you're going to do with your English degree (and in my mind, any liberal arts degree) you can tell them, "Carry it with me, as I do everything that matters."
that's great! I really really want to be an English or Comparative Literature major but it's a "useless major" and really hard to get jobs/you don't make money in it as much as a "more practical" degree. So I'm torn between something I don't really want to do that makes me money or something I love that I probably won't make a lot of money with. I'm going to do an internship over the summer (Hopefully at the library) and maybe I'll find out more about jobs with books/editing/libraries. So then I can change my major to english/comparative lit :)
@@kaitlyng7850 the only person I know who got a job in her field with that degree went into editing. Just some anecdotal data for you while you consider your options
‘The world you apply for a degree in is not the same as the world you will graduate into’ As someone who applied for uni in 2015 and left in 2021, I feel that so much 😭
Even the jump from 2016-2020 which were my university years is ridiculous, we all thought 2016 was the year of chaos and the worst thing that happened was Alan Rickman dying
Mine undergrad took me 10 years... I graduated into a drastically different word. I have not regretted my arts degree, but I do sometimes wish I had more guidance to plan for some predictable changes.
I think perhaps one thought this video sparked with me was that the inverse assumption of STEM degrees always resulting in a lucrative career also doesn't always hold. Don't get me wrong I loved my studies in STEM but I realized very quickly that you can land up in a low paying job just as easily as you could with a BA. It makes me realize that a lot of people tough it out in STEM degrees with the promise of good employment only to realize they land up getting underpaid to do work they hate.
@@pandaseal1611 Owch true. I did a science degree at a top uni and have ended up in an entry level job anyway. I'm sure I'll be able to get further with my degree in the long-term than i would have without it but assuming that a STEM degree is a fast pass to a well paying job is definitely wrong.
i think it was hank green who once pointed out that skills related to the liberal arts are basically the only skills that robots aren't getting good at very fast. so considering that, i'm actually not too worried about my future… i can imagine fully automated accountants and chemists but i'm not yet convinced that the next great author of our generation is gonna be an AI
@@devinmceachern6619 i disagree. while AI can imitate the way humans write, that's all it is: an imitation. because AI are not humans and are therefore at a fundamental disadvantage when it comes to capturing the human experience
So I’m aware I say this from a place of privilege… I did a degree in English literature and Classical literature and civilization. I loved it, I loved every second of it and now I have been a full time homemaker for more than 5 years. Some have claimed that my degree was pointless because I am now not employed outside of the home but I disagree wholeheartedly. My degree was valuable because I read things I would never have read before, I learned crucial skills, I had fascinating conversations, I was asked to humanize historical people that had previously just been text on a page. My degree did not get me a job, it was not strictly speaking relevant to the job I did have before motherhood, but it had been one of the most intellectually valuable portions of my life. Plus I met my now husband in freshers week, so my children wouldn’t exist without my degree.
i feel this! i think its great to do a degree in something youre interested in because even if youre not going to use it later to make money, it will expand your mind and you will develop as a person, learn critical thinking etc. and i think all of this is valuable for life in general, not just for getting a job
The most annoying part for me about this question, is that it is only a concern because of the large financial cost. I don't regret doing an art degree myself, but to be frank, skills wise I didn't learn much. However on a social level I made life long friends, industry connections. And it simply provided a space for growth and exploration. I'm in the video game industry, and I've noticed more graduate roles appearing that require a degree. They are kind of replacing 'junior' roles. ..but when I look back at my personal experience, I always wonder simply, why? I know many people without a degree who have the skills for the job (and who are better than people with degrees) yet are denied because they don't have a specific piece of paper. And I know one of the big reasons for them no having a degree, is the financial cost. The creative industries are in a really weird space right now.
I always find this discussion a great one to have Leena. As I am a VFX artist (animator) working in TV and film, and I had so many teachers discourage me from continuing art because there would not be much career opportunity for me. Well, here I am, 15yrs into my career; against the wishes of a lot of people I did drama, art, dance, music, then animation at Uni and fought my way into the industry and I earn a very good wage and love what I do. It is totally possible. I always find it funny when people say there's no modern use for art courses etc...... well, did you watch that new TV show, play that new game, read that new book, went to that gig? all the things that people use to relax and unwind and enrich their lives usually comes from art. It is needed, but I do only encourage people to chase this dream if they are quite sure they are also ready for the hard climb.
It's so important to know that it's a hard climb, that one needs to have support or a really strong drive to pursue some kind of stability in it's fields
I would consider "keeping people from despair" a pretty practical application ^^' hahahaha that's sent me, but also COVID has proven the preciousness and the necessity of art in all it's forms (whilst simultaneously making artists more precarious...)!
100% misemployed. It's not a forever job, and my degrees are for life. I guess a useful reminder for those who have these qualifications: the door isn't closed
From my bitter American perspective: going to college for a "less valuable" degree isn't necessarily the issue. In my opinion, going to college with zero direction or understanding of what you even like is the wrong move. Unless you have scholarships or attend a very cheap state college, university is NOT the place to "find out what you want to study." It's simply not financially viable. I know too many people who were pressured into going to college with no idea of what they liked, studied something random, then graduated with a mass of debt for a degree they don't even use. Please just explore yourself before signing any loans. They're very likely not ever going to be cancelled.
Yeah it's absolutely horrible. I listen to the Dave Ramsey show on occasion and the number of callers with massive student loan debts and low income is sad. It seems unethical to allow young people to sign up for that. And bankruptcy doesn't remove it for some reason?
I mean yes, but that's because education is super expensive in some countries. There's a culture where you can definitely figure yourself out in college in countries where it's cheaper, subsidized or even free...
@@lucilasandoval3084 yes exactly! I just don't like that so many young people feel pressured to immediately choose college, even if they don't have a direction. I would love for everyone to be able to use college to explode education, but it's simply not realistic with how corrupt the system is. There are other things you can do to explore education without taking on a 5 figure debt at age 20.
Yes! People bag on community colleges a lot, but they’re the perfect place to take courses for cheap to help figure out what you want to do next. When I started at my community college I wanted to go into international studies and by the time I was done I had pivoted to English, then moved on to a four-year university. I’m so glad I took that time to figure out what I wanted and I don’t regret any of it.
I was allowed to explore what I liked in Community College versus what I didn’t like and I was able to transfer to a four year college and graduated debt free and I’m grateful that I got Financial Aid
I'm close to the end of my illustration degree. Honestly the most valuable thing for me was the time it allows you. Time to grow and explore independence. Time to work on your passion but also to study any topic that interests you and fall back in love with education. It's such a rewarding experience just by itself but I do worry about not being able to get the job I want. But I'm working on it and it might just take a little longer than others. :))
The fine art experience sounds a lot the the illustration one. The lectures are lovely people but that kind of course is almost entirely self driven and very much down to what you put into it, I think there should be more actual teaching but there are great online courses to supplement that. So that is definitely something to consider if you want to do any kind of practical art degree. You will likely be relying on yourself so see if that's worth it or not for you
@@esme6227 I also studied illustration! And this is a great example of how all courses are not the same. Mine had high contact times, intense critiques, a heavy workload and perhaps too high expectations from tutors. There's probably more of a balance needed 😅 Good luck with your course!
I have a Graphic design and illustration degree and could not agree more! One thing I found in my first design job is that you suddenly lose that bit of time that allows you to explore and become a better designer (in most jobs anyway), uni gave me time to decide what designer I was, like carving out that person.
I graduated my illustration degree in 2020 :) I also agree, my style and skills went through such constant and vigorous change in those 3 years and I’m so glad I had the opportunity to do it. I still do not work fully In the job role I want either but I learnt so much and grew so much as a person, it’s benefited my character in general.
My two cents based on personal experience: just because you love the arts and got good grades in language & literature throughout school, doesn't necessarily mean you should do an arts degree by default. I started an English Lit degree and had wonderful professors who did an excellent job communicating what our various professional options were. I realized in my second year that I didn't want to do any of them. Switched to a business/econ degree, now I work in telecom project management and I read lots of books as a hobby. If you know you want to live your life in the arts as a career, go for it! Even if jobs are scarce being good at your job and passionate about it can get you farther than you think. But, if you're approaching university and the arts feels like something you're "good at" but you can't exactly picture what that will look like as a career... keep an open mind and think about what else you're good at and might enjoy just as much day to day.
I studied maths at uni, a degree that is generally thought of as very 'useful' and yet I think the number of maths related careers that follow on from the degree are actually pretty limited (either all out academia or actuarial stuff). I ended up in accounting and finance, but found out after I got here that you could actually pursue this career with a degree in any field... Or no degree at all! So the way people think of arts degrees as irrelevant to future jobs is actually the way I see my degree to and I'm sure it's the same for many many degrees and jobs!
That is exactly why I dropped out of maths after a year, I liked the intellectual challenge but the knowledge that I would either do accounting or just go into academia and be stuck in uni forever made me so depressed. Now I'm doing computational linguistics, which I like and which is highly specialised but also something everyone with coding knowledge can do as a career, with or without the degree
@@lotta_kannfastalles I've done a degree in applied mathematics and let me tell you, the possibilities are endless if you get into Data Science, Machine Learning and Data Analysis. Accounting and academia couldn't be further from reality when it comes to job opportunities for Mathematicians. And even beyond Data Science (which can work in a variety of fields, I work in renewable energy for example), you can work in banks, insurance companies, finance and stock market related companies, health care and pharmaceutical companies, tech companies, government statistics departments, tutoring and teaching, I could go on... My degree for example, has a 100% employability rate, and nobody really struggled to find interesting, challenging and well-payed jobs. So I wonder why you thought, as a freshman, that your career opportunities would be so limited when it's not the reality for the majority of people? Did people tell you that?
@@Luumus I second this, I also did an applied mathematics degree, and while I stayed in academia (at least for now), I think I can use my degree, and the skills I learned while studying, to get a variety of interesting jobs.
Completely agree!! In Australia, the cost of arts degrees was increased by 113% in 2021. The scheme was underhandedly put in place by our conservative government with the justification that arts degrees are not "job-ready". However, the ministers who put the scheme in place also undertook arts degrees for free in the 80's, sad to think that the humanties may become a domain only accessible to the privileged who can pay exorbitant prices :( Loved the video Leena.
For people who actually think about very different degrees because of their "talent" in school: if you are deciding between subjects that map onto what you do in school, just know that you won't do the same thing in uni. I think it's very difficult to decide on a uni program on the grounds of what you are good in in school, because the way you learn and the difficulty/speed is just so different in uni. Some programs even have the exact names but are totally different (like I had to learn when doing math in uni). Also ask yourself if you like what you do in the subject or also like what you could do with it in a real job. I loved maths in school but half a year into uni, it dawned on me that I would either do schooling for my whole life (which I absolutely hate) or go somewhere and do the boring part even if I found a company that aligns with my values. Same with biology: I wanted to do it, but I knew that I would never physically be able to do field work and thus I didn't even considered it because I wasn't financially secure enough to do a degree for the sole purpose of learning for three more years and then having to reorient my life. All that said: if you fell like none of what you do in school is your one single passion or no school subject neatly aligns with a study program, look into things that you know nothing about yet. I eventually studied linguistics, and that was just the right combination of mathematics and logics with actual language and some human(ities?) touch, and I found it by chance, because I noticed that it was a bachelor of arts but they explicitly stated that an affinity for maths was needed, when I was actually looking at literature programs to recover from a year of maths only every day. There are also programs where you can just do two different programs together without double the workload, and though you will encounter mostly aspiring teachers, in unis where this is possible you will find very different combinations and people who can help you with your decision
I've got my BA in Foreign Languages in October and I am now continuing on an MA that puts languages together with cultural tourism. I cannot even estimate how many times people have asked me what can I do with my degree once I finish university and it's probably one of the most annoying questions ever. It seems that it is really challenging for people to grasp the fact that not all university degrees have a single job or field you can work in and I believe that especially with languages it is easy to work in different fields. Also, I'm so tired of my uni friends and colleagues saying that there aren't many jobs except for teaching for us, it really shows that even within the branch the opinion and the vision of such degrees are still very limited. I've always believed that languages give you many job opportunities and my parents have supported my choice as well. Another thing that many people cannot seem to fathom is the fact that you don't necessarily need to work in the specific field of your uni degree. A university degree should be seen as an opportunity for personal development, not just as a ticket for the best paying jobs, IMO.
I do agree, however, as Leena pointed out, for a lot of people aren't in a place financially where they can do something simply for pleasure or for personal growth. I do think it's a completely valid reason to go if you're in a position to do so. And I cannot stress how much being able to speak multiple languages is a huge asset. People who think otherwise probably have a very limited world view. With technology and communication being where they are, the more diversity we are likely to come in contact with.
@@Victoria-dh9vb I completely understand the financial aspect, in fact I believe that in most countries, universities are still very much classist. Thankfully in most European countries university is more widely available and with low fees but a degree is slowly becoming not enough to score a good job position so you need to do PhDs or specialisation courses and they're quite expensive.
I completely agree with you! I've got a BA in translation studies and an MA in British Literature (I'm so grateful that university is basically free in Germany) People really seem to think that there should be one cookie-cutter job for every degree you get at university. I don't know how many times people have asked me what I'm gonna do with my 'useless' degree. Usually those were the people who hated their own jobs and were bored out of their minds at work. I finished my degree this summer and found a job as a copy writer fairly quickly. It's not gonna be my forever job, but I can still be creative and I get paid to write all day. And at the end of the day I can point at a client's website and say 'I wrote this text'. And THIS is usually when people understand why one would 'waste' time getting an art degree.
I'm close to the end of a degree in Visual Communication and I chose to study it because I was lost and needed support and guidance as well as a creative space in which I could grow and blossom. It has given me that and more. I started a mediocre photographer and I'm graduating a confident textile artist. Without this degree, I NEVER would have gone down this path. Yes, I'm not going into a high-earning job, but I'm happy and people appreciate the things I make. Throughout secondary school I was in gifted and talented and pushed by all of my teachers to be a doctor, or an author, or a CEO. I felt a lot of guilt when I chose to study art at university, feeling like I was letting people down and not 'using my potential', but I would never choose anything else if given the choice.
I think you're totally right Leena and I also want to add that the idea that the arts as an industry aren't profitable also operates on the assumption that every discipline is totally on its own. Tech companies need writers, fine artists, musicians, etc, just as one example. Just because your degree is in the arts doesn't mean you can *only* find jobs in the arts (though, of course, those jobs are worthy and profitable as well!)
I totally agree with what you said about nepotism in the creative industries, especially if you’re from a working class background. I’m halfway through my 2nd year of a creative direction degree, the best thing it’s provided me with so far is contacts in the industry i would never have access to otherwise
I started my BM (bachelor in music) in 2009. I dreamt of being an orchestral musician. I was really optimistic and went against pretty much my entire family. Today, more than 8 years after graduating... I don't feel as optimistic anymore. The world is indeed not the same at all as the one I have applied in or graduated into. Sadly. I've made it so far, but everything seems like such a struggle. Lately I've been doing a lot of the work Leena mentioned.. Working in production and the more "backstagey" jobs of the industry. I'm not sure what to think right now, but yeah. Just getting this off my chest I guess lol
During my time at uni itself I had that realisation. I recently graduated from a theatre masters degree and I'm currently working in hospitality to make ends meet now I'm in the 'real world'. Though I'm very good at hospitality, it gives you no inspiration to progress and it takes so much from you for so little; the idea of being stuck in it long-term does terrify me. I'm at the point now that 'any' arts job would do it for me. I suppose the world dampened my enthusiasm and confidence, but we make do
I wish you both the best, it is people like you who go for it against all odds who really inspire me. The theatre and music gives me so much joy in my day to day life, thank you for giving it a try. Even if it doesn't work out having that courage is a beautiful thing. My dad read me a quote when I was a teen and it stuck with me. "While you are going through life it feels chaotic and doesn't seem to make sense, when you look back it is a well crafted story." One day it will all make sense and you will figure it out🖤🖤 I hope you guys have the best day of your lives today hehehe sending loads of love.
This was interesting! I have a slightly different perspective on it though. I’ve always been interested in a wide variety of topics and I wanted to keep learning and engaging with more than one subject, so I chose to formally educate myself in something that I wouldn’t be able to learn on my free time, and that also felt meaningful to work with. I ended up studying bioengineering - because there is no way I would be able to teach myself that level of math or chemistry or biology on my own - but I still get to engage with a lot with “softer” subjects, so it’s a win-win. I still paint and write and read and research history and it’s all on my own terms. I think you should be careful before monetising what you are most passionate about!
Ugh we are starting to save up for our children's educations. My partner and I don't have degrees so the importance of university and whether it's worth the cost is high on our minds. I love how people who found a field they love (like you) talk and express themselves and I want that for my kids if they find a passion. I will not be upset if they don't want to go, though. My son has wanted to be a garbage truck driver ever since he was old enough to talk, so we may save some money!
Skip uni, work a practical apprenticeship, get paid and earn skills. Make money and get experience whilst everyone else is getting debt at uni. Leave and go to uni later in life if you wish to study for pleasure.
I have a BA and MA in political science (and a PhD in Economics), and I work as a researcher at a university. I didn't know what to become so I decided just to stay in uni forever and ever and ever. As long as they'll have me :)
Got my BA and MA in dance, but now work as a librarian, and I love it! My love of the arts is my hobby, and it took a while, but Im happy thats how it turned out :-)
I'd like to offer another perspective on the question you asked at around 4 minutes (relating to "picturing" what kind of life you'd like to have). The annie dillard quote "How we spend our days is how we spend our lives" really rings true to me. The truth of having a 9-5 "normal," "well-paying," "middle class," etc. job is that if you think you'll be miserable actually doing it, no matter the benefits involved, the outcome will be a miserable existence overall. I see this with my sister, who makes a ton of money at an executive roll but still only has 4 weeks holiday a year (that's North America for ya).
When I was graduating high school it was tough for me to figure out what I wanted to study. I was good in almost every subject so I could go what ever direction I wanted. But I had 2 loves, art and science. I sat down with myself and thought hard and went with science. And my reasoning was thus: I would be more than happy to work in a science lab researching a subject I didn't really care about, but I never wanted to have to do art I didn't care about. I didn't want art to be "just a job." I wanted it to be something I did for me not because I had to in order to survive.
I love this principle, but unfortunately coming from the north of England and an area that suffers from very poor social mobility and poverty, encouraging people to do degrees that have a high employment rate for our area (engineering, social care etc) breaks them out of the poverty cycle, and has enabled many people I know to even buy their own house.
Re 8:10, I went to a liberal arts college where that was very common. A lot of people got a double major in a "practical" industry and a liberal arts field, like business and sociology, accounting and French, finance and philosophy, etc.
My parents used to get concerned for my future when I told them which classes I was taking because they sounded “too fun.” I’m so glad I went to college and fell in love with learning again after a life of scraping by in my education. After all, the best jobs are jobs where you are comfortable with and excited by learning something new.
As a Business Management major (MBA, PhD ongoing), I can almost guarantee you that getting a business degree is absolutely no guarantee to lots of money. Nope nope nope. Not only your class accessibility to networks and things matters, your PASSPORT status matters too. Being a candidate doing PhD fellowship, I’ve been interviewed by someone with a diploma in swimming. It was a corporate head quarter in Scotland and the job was corporate training. So, be it ARTS or not, there’s a lot at play that can help or hamper your success in life. As always, great video Leena. 👍🏽
I have a BA in Cinema and although I've been unemployed/misemployed ever since (and also I don't really feel like I came out of it much more confident or knowing who I was -- tho tbh I was going through very difficult personal times), I'm still glad I did it because I enjoyed doing it and for all the experiences I had throughout it. And anyway even if I had studied something else it would have still been in the Arts, lol.
@@idiotbuster8662 what the F does that mean? where have I ever said that studying is the only option? what does that have to do with my comment?? I wanted to study. It was important to me. WHAT?
Just to give the opposite view I studied BA Sociology and I loved it! However it made it harder for me to get any job and I spent the best part of 15 years battling my way up from cleaning to a desk job (which is not wonderful but ok). I could have gone for a couple of college courses and had a million times easier journey. Be careful self development it’s uni is great but if you spend the next 15 years struggling that can knock out what you gained in confidence and affect your mental health.
I work at numerous jobs currently including as a visual artist, writer and curator (as well as a non art job) and I've only started getting paid for the art stuff properly (but still not a lot) in the last couple of years. I graduated 10 years ago. So my advice is if you want to work in the art diversify and think like Leena said of the roles around the art you make like being a curator or art writer/critic and if you're like me try your hand at all of them. Now I have really diverse projects to work on all day long. I'd also say it can take time to make money from it and I acknowledge my middle class status here and the ability to live in my parents house. Alot of people don't have this option and this is a problem in the arts. Value networking situations (like exhibition openings, open mic nights, online Zoom conferences) and people you meet in university as well. Brilliant video Leena.
I'm still at the beginning of the video but I have to say: Leena you're so freaking awesome!! The way you think and speak and articulate your amazing ideias and perceptions of the world is just so inspiring!! I know we all have our bad days but I hope that when you're at your worst you remember that you bring genuine joy and wisdom for people all over the world!
I studied Art History and English in university and got a lot of "What kind of jobs are you going to get with that?" I worked in the art world (for artists and galleries), and after a couple years realized I hated it (the comment about the world changing when you graduate is so true especially with NFT's in this industry). I freaked out because I felt like for years I had to prove that my degree had a definite future and now what? I applied to a myriad of jobs that had a creative focus and now I'm pivoting to advertising. Although it sounds like a classic career path of selling out to capitalism, my personality fits in a LOT more with the creatives in this industry than it did in the art world. My "useless" degree got me to where I am!
I have a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree and while I hate how much it cost, the people I met and the growth it encouraged in me is something I wouldn't want to trade or undervalue the impact of on my life. I am totally misemployed and underpaid (my school/professors did not do a good job of helping us find contacts in the arts industry) but I did a Fine Arts degree because it was the only thing I could see myself doing for my whole life and that still rings true.
Honestly, it depends on your situation. I chose to go to an arts uni as I knew there would be a lot I would learn that I either wouldn't or wouldn't have the motivation to outside of uni. Even if I'm not being taught anything new, my skills are improving, and I have a giant range of workshops available to me. However, I know some people on art youtube just didn't get on with uni/college and did ok. So it really depends on you.
For anyone who can't afford university at all, ultimately my course was, was "figure out who YOU are, and put that into creativity & make creativity a daily discipline." amazing video Leena ♡
I always loose my drive studying. I always fall back into school, just-get-through, mindest. Which is not bad bc I have to do certain modules I am not greatly interested in. But I have to remember to actually look into the ones I am into. Sometimes I feel like I need more relaxation time in order to do some studying in my 'free time'.
Some people even specifically want to be the person who helps the people make the art and specifically don't want to make the art themselves, it's wonderful
What a great discussion! The only thing I would add is, think about what kind of people you want connect with, learn from and to be surrounded by for the next four or so years (and beyond). Try and think of them as personal rather than just professional contacts. As a person with a wide array of interests, including the arts, it was difficult to connect with most people in my business program. Finding the few good ones took a long, long time and seriously affected my mental health. I was able to build a good network after uni and I now have well paid and secure job. However, my mental health suffered tremendously during uni and it took a very long time to recover. I rarely interact with my former classmates unless we connected after university.
Coming from someone who did a degree in Graphic design and Illustration: I think that doing a degree definitely shapes you personally, it shapes us all as designers. It gave me the time, room and guidance to explore what kind of designer I was. I think if I had gone straight into work as a designer I would of been shaped differently, craved out to fit the hole in that business where they needed a creative, rather than how I wanted to be. It means rather than me being a perfect fit in the roles I've found as a Designer I have had to join that company and change the hole that was my job, by bringing something new to the table or making surprising changes, make some waves.
I went to uni and got a degree in something my parents approved of. I’m not working in that sphere and would’ve liked to spend some time working before uni so I can decide what I want and have savings. A lot of people know what they want to do when they’re in high school, I was just very immature and didn’t put enough effort into anything so I didn’t know what I wanted to do until my 30s. Looking back, university is a really great experience especially if you’re involved in some kind of a real project/grad school rather than just assignments. So do a degree in something that will enlighten you, that subject could be different for everyone.
I studied Event Management which was a BA and sits in a nice spot between the 'seriousness' of a business degree but with the creativity of an arts degree. It's funny cause within business school you're considered less serious because you study 'party planning' but when I hear my friends' art school stories we sound so tame hahah. I work in the arts now after all and have witnessed that people come to these jobs from a billion different pathways because there isn't a clear direct line into these careers that we're not really told exist. That was a ramble but in summary, pursue what interests you whether that be in study, in your spare time or in employment because passion will keep your soul alive
I spent most of my high school years amid the uncertainty of whether I should go to art school or pick something else, and high functioning depression. I cannot express how amazing it was to wake up every morning excited because I got to go to a photography or drawing class. I graduated on 2019 and hey, maybe I won't get rich, but the pleasure and pride I feel doing something that I love has no price.
This discussion was needed for me to put my career in perspective. I went to college and graduated with a master’s in social studies that didn’t help me at all to find a job during a pandemonium. Though I’m working a job not related to social studies that pays relatively well, allowed me to move out and have financial stability to help me get to the next stage of my life, like in a video game. What my degree has helped with is to as you said, understand and make that current situation bearable since I understand the external factors that led me and a lot of other people to that undesirable situation that is misemployement and what I know I can do thanks to school assignments and internship. I’m not doing those cool things yet but I know I’m capable of finding a way of doing that in thefuture depending on what our society will need during the next few years.
okay but i did my 2 arts degrees because they were Fun. I enjoyed them. i enjoyed the time i spent doing them. reading things, talking to people about them. getting to think about "not serious" things seriously. is my life where i thought it would be right now? no. thanks pandemic but also i don't regret the 6 years i spent doing my two degrees because i just I enjoyed them. they were a lot of fun. i had fun. they made my 20s fun. i used them to meet people to travel and live in different countries under the excuse of studying there to, develop my hobbies, to prove to my self i could do the thing, and to talk about things with people who want to talk about them (something i really really miss now) they were just Such fun. i don't regret them for a second. things that are fun and that bring you joy (if you are in a place where you can do that financially etc. i did have that huge privilege) are worth doing. there is not enough time for fun in capitalism .
Someone once told me that arts degrees are important because, even though the sciences are to do with ‘how’ we live, the arts are to do with ‘why’ we live.
I graduate with my masters in physics this year and I am TERRIFIED because I feel so torn about what to do next. I have *zero* plans for the summer onwards. It feels really overwhelming and scary. This video gave me some food for thought...
I agree, go study what you want. In the end it’s your life. I feel like the disappointment coming from people that went and dropped out/finished uni and say that the degree “isn’t worth it” or “pays little” comes from having wrong expectations. University is a place where you come to study something you’re interested in, to learn about different things, to learn about yourself as well, not a place where you go just to get a degree to get a good job. I agree that it’s not something anybody can do - go to study what you want without worrying about money, but if someone can’t really afford uni and they’re not interested in studying but in earning money, they should go to work, not to uni cause it will be a waste of money
this nudged me into thinking about a lot of things and i don't have anything coherently formed into words right now, but i suppose i should sit down and write some notes for myself. thank you for the food for thought Leena!
The phrase that used to leave my mouth and so too my cohort is ‘ what is this degree actually worth?’ Was such a boggling way to look at it. We had put a price on our craft and what financial value it had to the outside world rather than ourselves. We’re all a bit older and more life experienced and I’d say at least 80% of my cohort have gravitated back to theatre/ music now there’s not the pressure of monetary value. Now that I’ve had time to breath and found a way to explore theatre again and have a stable job I’m much happier. ( I’m in a burlesque troupe that do regular shows but I don’t have the pressure of organising it all as well).
As someone who studied a creative degree and is now working slightly left of field than anticipated (still using my skillset, but not as directly creative as I'd expected when graduating), your sentiment about having a "rich internal world" really struck a chord with me... Some great thoughts!
So true about so called "practical degrees". I did maths and lots of people really think that's practical and serious and businessy and let me tell you, I will almost certainly never use my knowledge of knot theory and symmetry in my career. I took zero applied courses and almost 100% pure maths courses. I think whatever you are studying you are also learning to think and learn. Which is always valuable.
🤷♀️ I'm 28 and I still haven't gone to post secondary. I probably would if it were free, but I can't justify the cost. Especially since I have ADHD, and I know that I won't complete any of the projects outside of the classroom. This has only been compounded by the fact that there isn't any one thing that I'm passionate about or am excellent at. I think I would need both to stick with it, which really would be a waste of time and money. I'm a very generally curious person, so if I find something I'm interested in, there are lots of free resources available to learn from. I recognize that at some point things might change, and I find a subject worth going to school for.... but even if I had done a degree that would be relevant to that field, there's no guarantee that what I learned would be relevant by that point. Which would mean I would have to go back to school again to re-educate myself anyway. I have a decent job that I don't hate doing. I don't see myself quitting if I only end up doing it to get a degree in something I'm lukewarm about to get roughly the same wage and level job satisfaction.
In my privileged and humble opinion. A. Choose a school for technical excellence over sexy conceptualization. Concept is ALWAYS changing. Even if you're misemployed, (for 10 years) you'll bounce right back into your work. B. Immerse yourself as much as you are able to. The people you meet there will help shape who you are to become and stick with you forever. I wouldn't trade my BFA for anything else.
I studied Drama, with a focus on youth work & design and now I’m a stage manager. Plenty of work in it if you are a grafter, but of course really scary to enter the live arts world at the moment. I’ve spent the last couple of years being disappointed by cancellations. I’m thinking of a career change, but I will 100% still use my drama degree, whatever that new career might be. I’m thinking Architecture/ Social Work / teaching (yep I have no idea - but all include creativity, problem solving, reading 😍, project management) ✨
I’m grateful that I was able to do my degree of choice. It has no direct bearing on my current career but studying a BA in a subject I was fascinated to learn more about (and also figuring out how to live more independently away from my parents) is worth the student loan repayments every month
almost finished my first semester in uni studying sociology and asian studies, and i cant stop saying how glad i am for choosing so! this is what im good at and what im interested in and even tho its less career driven, it makes my life better and will open so many doors. whatever you choose - please choose something you like.
BA in Acting here, and now I work in database administration, ha! Don't regret my degree one bit, it was the thing I was really really passionate about and determined to pursue a career in. That didn't work out but I had a wonderful time dedicating three years to a passion and making friends for life. Sure, I was 'behind' peers in terms of 'career success' when I decided to stop pursuing acting three years after graduating and spent several years slightly aimless in entry level jobs, but I found something that I'm good at, find engaging and earn money I'm happy with! The idea of going straight from a degree into a really related job is probably still true for some career paths, but for most I think it's much more common (and fun, even though it doesn't necesssarily feel that way at the time) to float between things for a while into you find something that fits you
I understand what you mean and I totally agree with you, I just want to point out that nowadays there are many ways to learn and uni isn't always the best aproach depending on the person. Some of my family members have put pressure on me to go to uni, didn't even matter the degree. all they wanted was for me to go through that experience. But I don't deal well with the way things are taught in the art degrees. I took a specialized path in highschool and in the subjects that were really important to me, mostly printmaking(the field i specialized in), I know from what people that went to Uni, are not really treated as something important here. and I need to keep my hands busy, I prefer to listen about the theorical part while I keep my hands moving and if it sticks to my brain it's something valuable to remember. I've always had "good grades" and "did well" in school. but I don't understand why is it important to know stuff for a test if you're going to forget about it right after? why waste the energy on writing papers about topics you don't care about when you could read about those topics and move on? and even if you're doing the "right degree for you" there will be always things you don't care about that you are forced to study. I know that Uni works for many people but I'm quite stubborn and from what I heard from my friends that are there, it's not the path I want to take. I could go if it made sense because in portugal Uni is an ok price. but it just doesn't make sense to me. I rather do other courses in printmaking workshops and actually do stuff with my hands. If I can't be an artist without uni it's ok, I'm fine with being a crafts person. I just want to work with my hands and I tired of people making it seam like I'm wasting potential by pursuing that instead of the more educated path. I'd rather leave space there for someone who actually wants to be there 😅 sorry for the rant. sometimes it feels nice to vent to strangers on the internet.
Thank you for making this video! I recently graduated from my arts degree clinging onto some hope that I could be some small cog in the machine in an arts job out of it - but so far it hasn't gone that way (but there's still hope!) I had put so much stock in my self-esteem being attached to whether I have 'wasted my time or not' in doing a degree I genuinely enjoyed and loved when it risked misemployment and the potential depression that comes with that. This video showed that there are many reasons why one may take a degree and there is still absolute worth in it even if it doesn't turn out as intended :D
Some advice for anyone thinking of doing an art degree from someone who is on one currently: What Leena said about the difference in the amount of teaching yourself/structure is absolutley true. I am in my 3rd yr of an animation degree and I literally only have like 4/5 taught sessions a week? In first year I was like omg yes free time! and did nothing on my days off but I quickly learnt it was not free time but time you should be spending working. If you don't like that kind of absolute free roam or feel that you don't do well without structure then you may not like this kind of degree. Also if you are in the UK and want to take an art degree I would 100% reccomend doing a foundation year. They are 1yr art courses that are free if you are under 19 and you can probably find one not too far away from home (or you can move to do one at a bigger uni if you want). My one introduced me to the idea of studio practice and absolute free roam for work and so if you don't know how much you will like that sort of environment you can test it out. They also had waaaaay better advice for UCAS and applying to art degrees than my highschool did because thats their specialism. They did special portfolio reviews for specific subjects and let us talk to students/teachers on their uni courses about their experience/what they were looking for and if you applied to their uni you got to skip part of the interview process (so if you are desperate to go somewhere specific but don't think your skills are quite good enough yet you can do a foundation there to build your skills and also jump the queue a little). Of course not all foundation courses are created equal but it was a good stepping stone between uni and highschool and it was free!
there isn't any alumni system for public university in France, so I created a facebook group when I graduated from arts history. I wished I was able to speak to former graduates when I was studying but hopefully I'll be able to help some current students that way... If only the teachers remember to advertise our facebook group every year to their 1st year students. I'm sad we don't have a more sustainable system than that.
This is a great video! As someone who is now in a job that has nothing to do with my career I can’t agree more. I was so focussed on going to uni that I didn’t really look into the degree. The course turned out to be far too easy for me which meant I ended up teaching g myself a new skill. It is that skill that has got me a job in software, which turned out to be the perfect job for me.
I think the problem isn’t with the arts in and of themselves. The subjects and disciplines are worth studying and can produce stable careers, but the quality of the education is often very poor. People don’t respect the arts, and that means students, universities and teachers are not held to a high standard. You shouldn’t be teaching yourself in a fine arts degree - that wasn’t a misunderstanding on your part, that was the university failing you. Students aren’t ‘encouraged to be independent’ or ‘given more freedom’ like the marketing says, they are basically scammed! Unfortunately a lot of people who study arts degrees graduate without the skills they need to compete for jobs in the arts. They were not taught the skills they needed, so they are rejected, and people looking in from the outside blame the subject choice as a whole, instead of looking into the individual person’s portfolio book and realising how little guidance the university actually gave them in 3/4 years. I have seen myself how a hardworking student can come out of a fine arts degree drawing and painting no better than they did in high school. They did as they were told, never missed a beat, and they still acquired no technical skills whatsoever
Omg this! I went to uni and did a ‘serious’ science degree and worked in a lab after and ended up ditching it as it wasn’t for me. Often get asked what was even the point of my degree as I no longer work in academic science. Well thankfully I loved my degree so don’t regret not picking something else and what I got from my degree was infinitely more than the the subject I studied. Lots of different skills learned and increased confidence and broadened horizons and all that jazz! If I was asked now advice on picking a course it would be pick something you are actually interested in! Don’t just pick a course because of other peoples opinions or whatever as you have to put the work in for years to get your degree and giving a shit about the topic really helps! Yes you have some things like medicine, law etc that is a very clear path but if you are not on those career paths then study what you want and develop as a person
My sister did an art degree and had kids straight out of uni. She's been financially struggling for over a decade because of it. But they were some of the best years of her life and she regrets nothing.
This is honestly really valuable thank you!! And I agree, of course I’m speaking from the position of a person not yet attaining a degree, from what i can observe it really does not matter what specific major you learn your skills; it’s important how you apply them and with what level of passion and expertise
On 'keeping people from despair' as a skill--I'm listening to TOGETHER by Vivek Murthy and his coverage of the research about genetic and scientific studies into loneliness, isolation, depression, and ALTERNATIVES (!!!) is really interesting. Think you might appreciate too 🤗
I got a degree in chemistry and quickly found that the options at the bachelors level in my area were absolutely horrible. They were monotonous, boring, and barely paid more than working at the local grocery store. After a few years of hopping around these boring jobs, I went back to school for my masters degree in a complete different field.
I would love to hear you and Russel Brand have a chat about whatever the heck you guys would like. Could talk about walls drying and I'd be fixated faster than the wallpaper on said wall. 😊
The job market is weird, e.g. I work in the mining industry as an engineer 4years out of uni and train drivers get paid a lot more than me. To get qualified they do 18months of training (paid for by their company!) and don't need any skills before that, though typically they come from a track worker background. Granted they do night shifts and long hours and the work is mind numbing, but when I get stressful work it seems like a pretty sweet deal. Like why was nobody telling me to do that when I grew up?
I don't regret going to uni for a year and then dropping out - I got a great experience trying out a lot of different visual arts practices, and if I don't make much money then I never have to pay my uni fees back. I think if I hadn't had something to leap into after highschool I would have fallen into a much bigger depressive hole. Though maybe I would have worked out my mental health issues if I'd crashed earlier.... I'm currently starting art teaching and I'm not sure that it's where I want to go with my life, but I'm teaching a community group so I haven't had to become qualified for it, I just have to be enthusiastic and knowledgeable. I just feel I might not have any direction if I hadn't gone with art
I thought I was being practical by going into journalism instead of English and then I went and graduated in 1993, after several years of the newspaper industry contracting massively at the start of the great corporate conglomeration of media into the hands of a few companies. This process is still happening, as a consequence, I've been mis-employed in academia for thirty years, which ironically where I was afraid of ending up, which is why I went into journalism in the first place.
I actually chose the other option. The two things I can see myself doing are electrical engineering and costume design. I chose to go with engineering and don't regret it even a bit! The thing is: it's probably more creative and engaging than what a typical costume designer would do on a day to day basic. Creativity is hidden in many places :)
I am feeling so encouraged to keep pursuing what I'm good at in my uni degree. This is my last year of undergrad and I'm super excited to be part of the film industry. Keep on making amazing content :)
Is a liberal arts degree worth the money? Short answer: It depends on your values. If you are just looking for quick ROI and don't care about personal development, then no. If you understand how education pays back over time, how it helps you be a critical thinker, and how it opens worlds for you, then yes. I am the very first woman on both sides of my family to go to college and the first woman on both sides of my family to get a Master's degree, so NOBODY will ever convince me that it doesn't matter.
I'm at an impasse myself with academia, so the timing for this video is just truly on point for me. I'm working on my MA thesis, and will hopefully graduate this year. Already waiting to hear from a potential PhD scholarship and found a program I'm interested in. My BA was in the humanities and my MA is in the social sciences, though I've done a bit of both in both degrees. The field I study is very current (digital culture), so people I know who work in tech have repeatedly told me I could definitely get jobs in that field, even now. I work in PR to support myself and my boss has also joked that I'm on the wrong track and should do it full time, same goes for marketing. So I keep having these lucrative jobs, some more interesting than others, dangled in front of me like a carrot (which is already a huge privilege) while I stubbornly trudge through my 20's to pursue the dream of academia, in which there is plenty of rejection, fierce competition and not a lot of money. So I made a decision. I'll finish what I started, and I'll reevaluate for real, with no judgement, if I still want this enough. BUT - NONE of this has made me regret a second of my education thus far. I am a far better thinker and a more well-rounded person, and I have had the privilege to engage in truly fascinating discourse that would not have been as high quality or accessible otherwise. PLUS, my abilities to work with complex texts, edit, translate and summarize have all been absolute gifts in PR, and my digital culture expertise has come in handy too since I work with tech companies. AND my creative side helps me come up with good ideas for clients. I was fortunate that my BA was rather affordable (thanks Israel) and my MA now is completely free (thanks Germany), so financially to me it's more about the time resources and the wages I could have earned working full time, plus the mental toll and energy it consumes. I will always have a soft spot for academia even if I don't manage to be the cool professor I've dreamed about being. Now I'm trying to find my way back to creating on my own time again, for me, and I'm more excited about expanding my dreams and where I'd like to find myself in the future.
On a happier note - my mum wanted to design record covers for a living. She went to art school and is a graphic designer and has comfortably worked in her industry/area for like 30 years. She earned £45k (at least) in one of her jobs before the company went bust. Then moved to another company which did catering for work places and schools, and obv the pandemic screwed that up. But she actually earnt more in-between bc of her freelance work and her etsy shop took off (Queen Bee Art studios if anyone is interested- cards, prints, watercolour pet portraits...) You can make lots of money if you're willing to work hard, EVEN if you don't live in London. The only reason I'm emphasising that is bc it seems the creative industry lives there but rest assured there's a lot of small scale indie companies that need your skills. Moral of the story; don't do history unless you want to work in a museum, academia, teach or do admin. 🤣
I graduated my acting degree in the early 00’s and spent so much money trying to find work at first and earned nothing. I went into catering! Personally I wish I’d waited till I was a bit older (at 19) to decide what my ‘thing’ was going to be. Drama ‘school’ can do a real number on people, the methods back then… I hoped they’ve changed! I’d love a do-over degree, to study a different sector/subject but now Brits can only get one student loan = one bachelors degree, unless we have £40k ish to pay fees etc which obv I don’t! Lots of my peers have gone into teaching, one writes plays and a couple still act. There were fun parts to those 3 years but in hindsight I wish I hadn’t wasted, what I now know to be my one shot at a degree on my teen-dream of being a successful actor 😅
There's a postgraduate fund that I accessed to do a master's degree (it's not the same subject I did for my first degree) - it covers tuition but not maintenance, however I found part time work that just about covered my rent which made that workable for me :)
@@nottheseawitch what was the difference between your bachelors and masters? Subject wise and work wise. A dissertation wasn’t required for my degree and thank dog bc I only found out I’m dyslexic at Uni. Is a post grad well harder?! 😅 (you don’t have to tell me stranger, I’m just interested) and was this recently?
I have an arts degree in psychology. Unless you are one of the few ppl able to go onto the limited entry course you are likely to end up at least temporarily misemployed. However I would never take back my degree! I could have completed the exact same degree as a science instead of arts as econ was my minor but I wanted to take some arts papers. So I would be in the exact same position despite having a "science" degree. Also, Friends of mine who studied biology and got great marks struggled to find a job and ended up having to retrain.
Honestly where were you when I was 17 making Big Decisions I didn't feel ready to make? 🤣 (26 and jaded now haha) Things I'd also suggest on top of Lenas lovely points: - do work experience in the places/industries you want to work/have interest in Don't get stuck at the filing cabinet, ask people questions, get involved, even if it's scary. - apply for what YOU want to study. Ignore your family and follow your dreams. Don't be me; i listened to my entire family who went "oh you can do that in your spare time". I suck at managing my time and love to procrastinate. I still haven't written my book, it's been 16 years. - you don't have to do it straight away There's so much pressure from all the adults in your life to make decisions about things that feel like they're gonna tie you down forever. It's okay to say no, it doesn't feel like an option but it is. As an adult with hindsight: - I should have done a gap year and told my fam I was depressed as fuck at 17 - I would do WAY better now I have decipline to do my job (when my phone is downstairs) - I would have done so much better doing creative writing mixed with something applicable. E.g. journalism - your degree will get you over the £25k threshold if you do admin but no one asks you about it, like ever. (I did classics... its useless, even in the pub quiz). - I'm good at admin but bored out my mind... yay.
Really enjoyed this video! Did make me laugh when you said that 'liberal arts' is a wide umbrella term that doesn't tell you about your plan, bc 'liberal arts' is literally the title of my degree😅 I spend a good percentage of my professional life explaining what my degree actually entailed to people, but the skills and experiences it gave me has helped me hugely in my career!
YES! It's infuriating seeing what the government has done regarding arts degrees here in Australia. They decided to make arts degrees exponentially more expensive to pay for the "more valuable" degrees like STEM and teaching. Not saying that these degrees aren't important, but my god is this a stupid way to solve problems of under staffing
I think it's so individual. I am doing a fine art degree at ual currently and I am SO happy it couldn't be better for me but I also understand how it's not the right choice for some people. If anyone is considering a fine art degree and wants to talk to me I am happy to share my experience but I think it's not as black and white as people make out. Some people love it and get great job opportunities from an arts degree and some people feel it's wrong for them
I loved my art degree, It taught me critical thinking, and self discipline we were basically given a desk and told to "produce work" for the exhibition. so self time management and motivation was essential! However - this was in the 2000's so the tuition fees were nothing like they are today so although i would absolutely say study a subject you enjoy - I understand the huge financial costs..
I studied environmental science and visual arts, but ended up dropping arts and pursuing honours in science. I was lucky to get a public service job out of uni and is somewhat related to my degree, but it is still very policy/process driven and not at all true STEM. Alot of the more research-based work that I'm interested in required making good connections at uni, which I missed out on because I am extremely introverted and any spare moment I had I was working in a Cafe to fund moving out of home. In hindsight, I really had no idea what I wanted out of uni - I enjoyed visual art, but think I started science because I knew I wouldn't make it as an artist quite early into art school. At no point did I consider the secondary jobs in the arts, like you mentioned.. so felt I had to commit to science to have a secure job out of uni. Now, im deeply unhappy with my job and don't have the skills to easily change sectors. Why do we keep putting pressure on teens to go to uni so early? At eighteen I was just trying to please the people around me and had no idea what I wanted out of life or any idea how to properly understand the choices I was making.
There's something Cheryl Strayed wrote about this that stuck with me. She said that if people ask what you're going to do with your English degree (and in my mind, any liberal arts degree) you can tell them, "Carry it with me, as I do everything that matters."
I love this! I'll definitely make a note of this response next time someone asks 😊
That letter is really close to my heart!
that's great! I really really want to be an English or Comparative Literature major but it's a "useless major" and really hard to get jobs/you don't make money in it as much as a "more practical" degree. So I'm torn between something I don't really want to do that makes me money or something I love that I probably won't make a lot of money with. I'm going to do an internship over the summer (Hopefully at the library) and maybe I'll find out more about jobs with books/editing/libraries. So then I can change my major to english/comparative lit :)
lets just say trump supporter did not like this
@@kaitlyng7850 the only person I know who got a job in her field with that degree went into editing. Just some anecdotal data for you while you consider your options
‘The world you apply for a degree in is not the same as the world you will graduate into’
As someone who applied for uni in 2015 and left in 2021, I feel that so much 😭
As someone who graduated from their BA in the summer of 2008, I feel your pain, albeit in a different kind of financial crashy way.
I had just started my nurse studies as the pandemic hit, and now I work (for student credit) vaccinating people against COVID-19
Even the jump from 2016-2020 which were my university years is ridiculous, we all thought 2016 was the year of chaos and the worst thing that happened was Alan Rickman dying
Mine undergrad took me 10 years... I graduated into a drastically different word. I have not regretted my arts degree, but I do sometimes wish I had more guidance to plan for some predictable changes.
Graduated 2013, apprenticeships replaced graduate jobs 🙃
I think perhaps one thought this video sparked with me was that the inverse assumption of STEM degrees always resulting in a lucrative career also doesn't always hold. Don't get me wrong I loved my studies in STEM but I realized very quickly that you can land up in a low paying job just as easily as you could with a BA. It makes me realize that a lot of people tough it out in STEM degrees with the promise of good employment only to realize they land up getting underpaid to do work they hate.
ooomf! you spilled
@@dyoopiter it’s true especially if you do biomedical science they treat you like absolute c:;p cause it’s oversaturated
@@pandaseal1611 Owch true. I did a science degree at a top uni and have ended up in an entry level job anyway. I'm sure I'll be able to get further with my degree in the long-term than i would have without it but assuming that a STEM degree is a fast pass to a well paying job is definitely wrong.
Ehehehe yeah
Here the fuck I am
i think it was hank green who once pointed out that skills related to the liberal arts are basically the only skills that robots aren't getting good at very fast. so considering that, i'm actually not too worried about my future… i can imagine fully automated accountants and chemists but i'm not yet convinced that the next great author of our generation is gonna be an AI
This comment has not aged well…
@@devinmceachern6619 i disagree. while AI can imitate the way humans write, that's all it is: an imitation. because AI are not humans and are therefore at a fundamental disadvantage when it comes to capturing the human experience
So I’m aware I say this from a place of privilege…
I did a degree in English literature and Classical literature and civilization. I loved it, I loved every second of it and now I have been a full time homemaker for more than 5 years. Some have claimed that my degree was pointless because I am now not employed outside of the home but I disagree wholeheartedly. My degree was valuable because I read things I would never have read before, I learned crucial skills, I had fascinating conversations, I was asked to humanize historical people that had previously just been text on a page. My degree did not get me a job, it was not strictly speaking relevant to the job I did have before motherhood, but it had been one of the most intellectually valuable portions of my life.
Plus I met my now husband in freshers week, so my children wouldn’t exist without my degree.
i feel this! i think its great to do a degree in something youre interested in because even if youre not going to use it later to make money, it will expand your mind and you will develop as a person, learn critical thinking etc. and i think all of this is valuable for life in general, not just for getting a job
The most annoying part for me about this question, is that it is only a concern because of the large financial cost.
I don't regret doing an art degree myself, but to be frank, skills wise I didn't learn much.
However on a social level I made life long friends, industry connections. And it simply provided a space for growth and exploration.
I'm in the video game industry, and I've noticed more graduate roles appearing that require a degree. They are kind of replacing 'junior' roles.
..but when I look back at my personal experience, I always wonder simply, why? I know many people without a degree who have the skills for the job (and who are better than people with degrees) yet are denied because they don't have a specific piece of paper. And I know one of the big reasons for them no having a degree, is the financial cost.
The creative industries are in a really weird space right now.
I always find this discussion a great one to have Leena. As I am a VFX artist (animator) working in TV and film, and I had so many teachers discourage me from continuing art because there would not be much career opportunity for me. Well, here I am, 15yrs into my career; against the wishes of a lot of people I did drama, art, dance, music, then animation at Uni and fought my way into the industry and I earn a very good wage and love what I do. It is totally possible. I always find it funny when people say there's no modern use for art courses etc...... well, did you watch that new TV show, play that new game, read that new book, went to that gig? all the things that people use to relax and unwind and enrich their lives usually comes from art. It is needed, but I do only encourage people to chase this dream if they are quite sure they are also ready for the hard climb.
It's so important to know that it's a hard climb, that one needs to have support or a really strong drive to pursue some kind of stability in it's fields
I would consider "keeping people from despair" a pretty practical application ^^' hahahaha that's sent me, but also COVID has proven the preciousness and the necessity of art in all it's forms (whilst simultaneously making artists more precarious...)!
Totally - I've been LEANING HARD in to musicals therapy during this whole shit show! x
100% misemployed. It's not a forever job, and my degrees are for life. I guess a useful reminder for those who have these qualifications: the door isn't closed
From my bitter American perspective: going to college for a "less valuable" degree isn't necessarily the issue. In my opinion, going to college with zero direction or understanding of what you even like is the wrong move. Unless you have scholarships or attend a very cheap state college, university is NOT the place to "find out what you want to study." It's simply not financially viable. I know too many people who were pressured into going to college with no idea of what they liked, studied something random, then graduated with a mass of debt for a degree they don't even use. Please just explore yourself before signing any loans. They're very likely not ever going to be cancelled.
Yeah it's absolutely horrible. I listen to the Dave Ramsey show on occasion and the number of callers with massive student loan debts and low income is sad. It seems unethical to allow young people to sign up for that. And bankruptcy doesn't remove it for some reason?
I mean yes, but that's because education is super expensive in some countries. There's a culture where you can definitely figure yourself out in college in countries where it's cheaper, subsidized or even free...
@@lucilasandoval3084 yes exactly! I just don't like that so many young people feel pressured to immediately choose college, even if they don't have a direction. I would love for everyone to be able to use college to explode education, but it's simply not realistic with how corrupt the system is. There are other things you can do to explore education without taking on a 5 figure debt at age 20.
Yes! People bag on community colleges a lot, but they’re the perfect place to take courses for cheap to help figure out what you want to do next. When I started at my community college I wanted to go into international studies and by the time I was done I had pivoted to English, then moved on to a four-year university. I’m so glad I took that time to figure out what I wanted and I don’t regret any of it.
I was allowed to explore what I liked in Community College versus what I didn’t like and I was able to transfer to a four year college and graduated debt free and I’m grateful that I got Financial Aid
I'm close to the end of my illustration degree. Honestly the most valuable thing for me was the time it allows you. Time to grow and explore independence. Time to work on your passion but also to study any topic that interests you and fall back in love with education. It's such a rewarding experience just by itself but I do worry about not being able to get the job I want. But I'm working on it and it might just take a little longer than others. :))
The fine art experience sounds a lot the the illustration one. The lectures are lovely people but that kind of course is almost entirely self driven and very much down to what you put into it, I think there should be more actual teaching but there are great online courses to supplement that. So that is definitely something to consider if you want to do any kind of practical art degree. You will likely be relying on yourself so see if that's worth it or not for you
@@esme6227 I also studied illustration! And this is a great example of how all courses are not the same. Mine had high contact times, intense critiques, a heavy workload and perhaps too high expectations from tutors. There's probably more of a balance needed 😅 Good luck with your course!
I have a Graphic design and illustration degree and could not agree more! One thing I found in my first design job is that you suddenly lose that bit of time that allows you to explore and become a better designer (in most jobs anyway), uni gave me time to decide what designer I was, like carving out that person.
@@esme6227 I had quite alot of contact and lead lessons on mine, it was exhausting at times how much! It's amazing how different these can be!
I graduated my illustration degree in 2020 :) I also agree, my style and skills went through such constant and vigorous change in those 3 years and I’m so glad I had the opportunity to do it. I still do not work fully In the job role I want either but I learnt so much and grew so much as a person, it’s benefited my character in general.
My two cents based on personal experience: just because you love the arts and got good grades in language & literature throughout school, doesn't necessarily mean you should do an arts degree by default. I started an English Lit degree and had wonderful professors who did an excellent job communicating what our various professional options were. I realized in my second year that I didn't want to do any of them. Switched to a business/econ degree, now I work in telecom project management and I read lots of books as a hobby.
If you know you want to live your life in the arts as a career, go for it! Even if jobs are scarce being good at your job and passionate about it can get you farther than you think. But, if you're approaching university and the arts feels like something you're "good at" but you can't exactly picture what that will look like as a career... keep an open mind and think about what else you're good at and might enjoy just as much day to day.
I studied maths at uni, a degree that is generally thought of as very 'useful' and yet I think the number of maths related careers that follow on from the degree are actually pretty limited (either all out academia or actuarial stuff). I ended up in accounting and finance, but found out after I got here that you could actually pursue this career with a degree in any field... Or no degree at all! So the way people think of arts degrees as irrelevant to future jobs is actually the way I see my degree to and I'm sure it's the same for many many degrees and jobs!
That is exactly why I dropped out of maths after a year, I liked the intellectual challenge but the knowledge that I would either do accounting or just go into academia and be stuck in uni forever made me so depressed. Now I'm doing computational linguistics, which I like and which is highly specialised but also something everyone with coding knowledge can do as a career, with or without the degree
@@lotta_kannfastalles I've done a degree in applied mathematics and let me tell you, the possibilities are endless if you get into Data Science, Machine Learning and Data Analysis. Accounting and academia couldn't be further from reality when it comes to job opportunities for Mathematicians. And even beyond Data Science (which can work in a variety of fields, I work in renewable energy for example), you can work in banks, insurance companies, finance and stock market related companies, health care and pharmaceutical companies, tech companies, government statistics departments, tutoring and teaching, I could go on... My degree for example, has a 100% employability rate, and nobody really struggled to find interesting, challenging and well-payed jobs.
So I wonder why you thought, as a freshman, that your career opportunities would be so limited when it's not the reality for the majority of people? Did people tell you that?
@@Luumus I second this, I also did an applied mathematics degree, and while I stayed in academia (at least for now), I think I can use my degree, and the skills I learned while studying, to get a variety of interesting jobs.
Completely agree!! In Australia, the cost of arts degrees was increased by 113% in 2021. The scheme was underhandedly put in place by our conservative government with the justification that arts degrees are not "job-ready". However, the ministers who put the scheme in place also undertook arts degrees for free in the 80's, sad to think that the humanties may become a domain only accessible to the privileged who can pay exorbitant prices :( Loved the video Leena.
For people who actually think about very different degrees because of their "talent" in school: if you are deciding between subjects that map onto what you do in school, just know that you won't do the same thing in uni. I think it's very difficult to decide on a uni program on the grounds of what you are good in in school, because the way you learn and the difficulty/speed is just so different in uni. Some programs even have the exact names but are totally different (like I had to learn when doing math in uni). Also ask yourself if you like what you do in the subject or also like what you could do with it in a real job. I loved maths in school but half a year into uni, it dawned on me that I would either do schooling for my whole life (which I absolutely hate) or go somewhere and do the boring part even if I found a company that aligns with my values. Same with biology: I wanted to do it, but I knew that I would never physically be able to do field work and thus I didn't even considered it because I wasn't financially secure enough to do a degree for the sole purpose of learning for three more years and then having to reorient my life.
All that said: if you fell like none of what you do in school is your one single passion or no school subject neatly aligns with a study program, look into things that you know nothing about yet. I eventually studied linguistics, and that was just the right combination of mathematics and logics with actual language and some human(ities?) touch, and I found it by chance, because I noticed that it was a bachelor of arts but they explicitly stated that an affinity for maths was needed, when I was actually looking at literature programs to recover from a year of maths only every day. There are also programs where you can just do two different programs together without double the workload, and though you will encounter mostly aspiring teachers, in unis where this is possible you will find very different combinations and people who can help you with your decision
I've got my BA in Foreign Languages in October and I am now continuing on an MA that puts languages together with cultural tourism. I cannot even estimate how many times people have asked me what can I do with my degree once I finish university and it's probably one of the most annoying questions ever. It seems that it is really challenging for people to grasp the fact that not all university degrees have a single job or field you can work in and I believe that especially with languages it is easy to work in different fields. Also, I'm so tired of my uni friends and colleagues saying that there aren't many jobs except for teaching for us, it really shows that even within the branch the opinion and the vision of such degrees are still very limited. I've always believed that languages give you many job opportunities and my parents have supported my choice as well. Another thing that many people cannot seem to fathom is the fact that you don't necessarily need to work in the specific field of your uni degree. A university degree should be seen as an opportunity for personal development, not just as a ticket for the best paying jobs, IMO.
I do agree, however, as Leena pointed out, for a lot of people aren't in a place financially where they can do something simply for pleasure or for personal growth.
I do think it's a completely valid reason to go if you're in a position to do so.
And I cannot stress how much being able to speak multiple languages is a huge asset. People who think otherwise probably have a very limited world view. With technology and communication being where they are, the more diversity we are likely to come in contact with.
@@Victoria-dh9vb I completely understand the financial aspect, in fact I believe that in most countries, universities are still very much classist. Thankfully in most European countries university is more widely available and with low fees but a degree is slowly becoming not enough to score a good job position so you need to do PhDs or specialisation courses and they're quite expensive.
I completely agree with you! I've got a BA in translation studies and an MA in British Literature (I'm so grateful that university is basically free in Germany) People really seem to think that there should be one cookie-cutter job for every degree you get at university. I don't know how many times people have asked me what I'm gonna do with my 'useless' degree. Usually those were the people who hated their own jobs and were bored out of their minds at work.
I finished my degree this summer and found a job as a copy writer fairly quickly. It's not gonna be my forever job, but I can still be creative and I get paid to write all day. And at the end of the day I can point at a client's website and say 'I wrote this text'. And THIS is usually when people understand why one would 'waste' time getting an art degree.
I'm close to the end of a degree in Visual Communication and I chose to study it because I was lost and needed support and guidance as well as a creative space in which I could grow and blossom. It has given me that and more. I started a mediocre photographer and I'm graduating a confident textile artist. Without this degree, I NEVER would have gone down this path. Yes, I'm not going into a high-earning job, but I'm happy and people appreciate the things I make. Throughout secondary school I was in gifted and talented and pushed by all of my teachers to be a doctor, or an author, or a CEO. I felt a lot of guilt when I chose to study art at university, feeling like I was letting people down and not 'using my potential', but I would never choose anything else if given the choice.
I think you're totally right Leena and I also want to add that the idea that the arts as an industry aren't profitable also operates on the assumption that every discipline is totally on its own. Tech companies need writers, fine artists, musicians, etc, just as one example. Just because your degree is in the arts doesn't mean you can *only* find jobs in the arts (though, of course, those jobs are worthy and profitable as well!)
I totally agree with what you said about nepotism in the creative industries, especially if you’re from a working class background. I’m halfway through my 2nd year of a creative direction degree, the best thing it’s provided me with so far is contacts in the industry i would never have access to otherwise
I started my BM (bachelor in music) in 2009. I dreamt of being an orchestral musician. I was really optimistic and went against pretty much my entire family. Today, more than 8 years after graduating... I don't feel as optimistic anymore. The world is indeed not the same at all as the one I have applied in or graduated into. Sadly.
I've made it so far, but everything seems like such a struggle. Lately I've been doing a lot of the work Leena mentioned.. Working in production and the more "backstagey" jobs of the industry.
I'm not sure what to think right now, but yeah. Just getting this off my chest I guess lol
During my time at uni itself I had that realisation. I recently graduated from a theatre masters degree and I'm currently working in hospitality to make ends meet now I'm in the 'real world'. Though I'm very good at hospitality, it gives you no inspiration to progress and it takes so much from you for so little; the idea of being stuck in it long-term does terrify me. I'm at the point now that 'any' arts job would do it for me. I suppose the world dampened my enthusiasm and confidence, but we make do
@@dani_dan_dan4296 We make do. We really do. Good luck to us. I hope it gets better, even if it means 'any' arts job.
I wish you both the best, it is people like you who go for it against all odds who really inspire me. The theatre and music gives me so much joy in my day to day life, thank you for giving it a try. Even if it doesn't work out having that courage is a beautiful thing.
My dad read me a quote when I was a teen and it stuck with me. "While you are going through life it feels chaotic and doesn't seem to make sense, when you look back it is a well crafted story." One day it will all make sense and you will figure it out🖤🖤 I hope you guys have the best day of your lives today hehehe sending loads of love.
@@allmonti9861 thank you so much! This message was so encouraging! Best to you too!
"Academia is discovery" I love the simplicity of this statement because that's what it is at its soul. You discover learn more about the world
This was interesting! I have a slightly different perspective on it though. I’ve always been interested in a wide variety of topics and I wanted to keep learning and engaging with more than one subject, so I chose to formally educate myself in something that I wouldn’t be able to learn on my free time, and that also felt meaningful to work with. I ended up studying bioengineering - because there is no way I would be able to teach myself that level of math or chemistry or biology on my own - but I still get to engage with a lot with “softer” subjects, so it’s a win-win. I still paint and write and read and research history and it’s all on my own terms. I think you should be careful before monetising what you are most passionate about!
Ugh we are starting to save up for our children's educations. My partner and I don't have degrees so the importance of university and whether it's worth the cost is high on our minds. I love how people who found a field they love (like you) talk and express themselves and I want that for my kids if they find a passion. I will not be upset if they don't want to go, though. My son has wanted to be a garbage truck driver ever since he was old enough to talk, so we may save some money!
Skip uni, work a practical apprenticeship, get paid and earn skills. Make money and get experience whilst everyone else is getting debt at uni.
Leave and go to uni later in life if you wish to study for pleasure.
I have a BA and MA in political science (and a PhD in Economics), and I work as a researcher at a university. I didn't know what to become so I decided just to stay in uni forever and ever and ever. As long as they'll have me :)
Got my BA and MA in dance, but now work as a librarian, and I love it! My love of the arts is my hobby, and it took a while, but Im happy thats how it turned out :-)
I'd like to offer another perspective on the question you asked at around 4 minutes (relating to "picturing" what kind of life you'd like to have). The annie dillard quote "How we spend our days is how we spend our lives" really rings true to me. The truth of having a 9-5 "normal," "well-paying," "middle class," etc. job is that if you think you'll be miserable actually doing it, no matter the benefits involved, the outcome will be a miserable existence overall. I see this with my sister, who makes a ton of money at an executive roll but still only has 4 weeks holiday a year (that's North America for ya).
When I was graduating high school it was tough for me to figure out what I wanted to study. I was good in almost every subject so I could go what ever direction I wanted. But I had 2 loves, art and science. I sat down with myself and thought hard and went with science. And my reasoning was thus:
I would be more than happy to work in a science lab researching a subject I didn't really care about, but I never wanted to have to do art I didn't care about. I didn't want art to be "just a job." I wanted it to be something I did for me not because I had to in order to survive.
This was precisely my thought process as well
are you rich 1:48
I love this principle, but unfortunately coming from the north of England and an area that suffers from very poor social mobility and poverty, encouraging people to do degrees that have a high employment rate for our area (engineering, social care etc) breaks them out of the poverty cycle, and has enabled many people I know to even buy their own house.
Re 8:10, I went to a liberal arts college where that was very common. A lot of people got a double major in a "practical" industry and a liberal arts field, like business and sociology, accounting and French, finance and philosophy, etc.
That's bloody wonderful!
My parents used to get concerned for my future when I told them which classes I was taking because they sounded “too fun.” I’m so glad I went to college and fell in love with learning again after a life of scraping by in my education. After all, the best jobs are jobs where you are comfortable with and excited by learning something new.
As a Business Management major (MBA, PhD ongoing), I can almost guarantee you that getting a business degree is absolutely no guarantee to lots of money. Nope nope nope. Not only your class accessibility to networks and things matters, your PASSPORT status matters too. Being a candidate doing PhD fellowship, I’ve been interviewed by someone with a diploma in swimming. It was a corporate head quarter in Scotland and the job was corporate training. So, be it ARTS or not, there’s a lot at play that can help or hamper your success in life. As always, great video Leena. 👍🏽
I have a BA in Cinema and although I've been unemployed/misemployed ever since (and also I don't really feel like I came out of it much more confident or knowing who I was -- tho tbh I was going through very difficult personal times), I'm still glad I did it because I enjoyed doing it and for all the experiences I had throughout it. And anyway even if I had studied something else it would have still been in the Arts, lol.
You realise not studying anything is also an option?
@@idiotbuster8662 what the F does that mean? where have I ever said that studying is the only option? what does that have to do with my comment?? I wanted to study. It was important to me. WHAT?
Just to give the opposite view I studied BA Sociology and I loved it! However it made it harder for me to get any job and I spent the best part of 15 years battling my way up from cleaning to a desk job (which is not wonderful but ok). I could have gone for a couple of college courses and had a million times easier journey. Be careful self development it’s uni is great but if you spend the next 15 years struggling that can knock out what you gained in confidence and affect your mental health.
I work at numerous jobs currently including as a visual artist, writer and curator (as well as a non art job) and I've only started getting paid for the art stuff properly (but still not a lot) in the last couple of years. I graduated 10 years ago. So my advice is if you want to work in the art diversify and think like Leena said of the roles around the art you make like being a curator or art writer/critic and if you're like me try your hand at all of them. Now I have really diverse projects to work on all day long. I'd also say it can take time to make money from it and I acknowledge my middle class status here and the ability to live in my parents house. Alot of people don't have this option and this is a problem in the arts. Value networking situations (like exhibition openings, open mic nights, online Zoom conferences) and people you meet in university as well. Brilliant video Leena.
I'm still at the beginning of the video but I have to say: Leena you're so freaking awesome!! The way you think and speak and articulate your amazing ideias and perceptions of the world is just so inspiring!! I know we all have our bad days but I hope that when you're at your worst you remember that you bring genuine joy and wisdom for people all over the world!
😭😭😭
Couldn't agree more!!!
I studied Art History and English in university and got a lot of "What kind of jobs are you going to get with that?"
I worked in the art world (for artists and galleries), and after a couple years realized I hated it (the comment about the world changing when you graduate is so true especially with NFT's in this industry). I freaked out because I felt like for years I had to prove that my degree had a definite future and now what?
I applied to a myriad of jobs that had a creative focus and now I'm pivoting to advertising. Although it sounds like a classic career path of selling out to capitalism, my personality fits in a LOT more with the creatives in this industry than it did in the art world.
My "useless" degree got me to where I am!
I have a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree and while I hate how much it cost, the people I met and the growth it encouraged in me is something I wouldn't want to trade or undervalue the impact of on my life. I am totally misemployed and underpaid (my school/professors did not do a good job of helping us find contacts in the arts industry) but I did a Fine Arts degree because it was the only thing I could see myself doing for my whole life and that still rings true.
Honestly, it depends on your situation. I chose to go to an arts uni as I knew there would be a lot I would learn that I either wouldn't or wouldn't have the motivation to outside of uni. Even if I'm not being taught anything new, my skills are improving, and I have a giant range of workshops available to me. However, I know some people on art youtube just didn't get on with uni/college and did ok. So it really depends on you.
For anyone who can't afford university at all, ultimately my course was, was "figure out who YOU are, and put that into creativity & make creativity a daily discipline."
amazing video Leena ♡
Amen!!!
I always loose my drive studying. I always fall back into school, just-get-through, mindest. Which is not bad bc I have to do certain modules I am not greatly interested in. But I have to remember to actually look into the ones I am into. Sometimes I feel like I need more relaxation time in order to do some studying in my 'free time'.
Some people even specifically want to be the person who helps the people make the art and specifically don't want to make the art themselves, it's wonderful
What a great discussion! The only thing I would add is, think about what kind of people you want connect with, learn from and to be surrounded by for the next four or so years (and beyond). Try and think of them as personal rather than just professional contacts. As a person with a wide array of interests, including the arts, it was difficult to connect with most people in my business program. Finding the few good ones took a long, long time and seriously affected my mental health. I was able to build a good network after uni and I now have well paid and secure job. However, my mental health suffered tremendously during uni and it took a very long time to recover. I rarely interact with my former classmates unless we connected after university.
Coming from someone who did a degree in Graphic design and Illustration:
I think that doing a degree definitely shapes you personally, it shapes us all as designers. It gave me the time, room and guidance to explore what kind of designer I was. I think if I had gone straight into work as a designer I would of been shaped differently, craved out to fit the hole in that business where they needed a creative, rather than how I wanted to be. It means rather than me being a perfect fit in the roles I've found as a Designer I have had to join that company and change the hole that was my job, by bringing something new to the table or making surprising changes, make some waves.
I LOVE your videos about the arts industry an all its facets. Loved this.
I went to uni and got a degree in something my parents approved of. I’m not working in that sphere and would’ve liked to spend some time working before uni so I can decide what I want and have savings. A lot of people know what they want to do when they’re in high school, I was just very immature and didn’t put enough effort into anything so I didn’t know what I wanted to do until my 30s. Looking back, university is a really great experience especially if you’re involved in some kind of a real project/grad school rather than just assignments. So do a degree in something that will enlighten you, that subject could be different for everyone.
I studied Event Management which was a BA and sits in a nice spot between the 'seriousness' of a business degree but with the creativity of an arts degree. It's funny cause within business school you're considered less serious because you study 'party planning' but when I hear my friends' art school stories we sound so tame hahah.
I work in the arts now after all and have witnessed that people come to these jobs from a billion different pathways because there isn't a clear direct line into these careers that we're not really told exist.
That was a ramble but in summary, pursue what interests you whether that be in study, in your spare time or in employment because passion will keep your soul alive
I do feel as an American that it's necessary that the field of art remains something that one doesn't necessarily *need* a degree for to enter
I spent most of my high school years amid the uncertainty of whether I should go to art school or pick something else, and high functioning depression. I cannot express how amazing it was to wake up every morning excited because I got to go to a photography or drawing class. I graduated on 2019 and hey, maybe I won't get rich, but the pleasure and pride I feel doing something that I love has no price.
This discussion was needed for me to put my career in perspective. I went to college and graduated with a master’s in social studies that didn’t help me at all to find a job during a pandemonium. Though I’m working a job not related to social studies that pays relatively well, allowed me to move out and have financial stability to help me get to the next stage of my life, like in a video game. What my degree has helped with is to as you said, understand and make that current situation bearable since I understand the external factors that led me and a lot of other people to that undesirable situation that is misemployement and what I know I can do thanks to school assignments and internship. I’m not doing those cool things yet but I know I’m capable of finding a way of doing that in thefuture depending on what our society will need during the next few years.
Really recommend Shanspeare’s video about her argument for studying the humanities, truly brilliant
okay but i did my 2 arts degrees because they were Fun. I enjoyed them. i enjoyed the time i spent doing them. reading things, talking to people about them. getting to think about "not serious" things seriously. is my life where i thought it would be right now? no. thanks pandemic but also i don't regret the 6 years i spent doing my two degrees because i just I enjoyed them. they were a lot of fun. i had fun. they made my 20s fun. i used them to meet people to travel and live in different countries under the excuse of studying there to, develop my hobbies, to prove to my self i could do the thing, and to talk about things with people who want to talk about them (something i really really miss now) they were just Such fun. i don't regret them for a second. things that are fun and that bring you joy (if you are in a place where you can do that financially etc. i did have that huge privilege) are worth doing. there is not enough time for fun in capitalism .
Someone once told me that arts degrees are important because, even though the sciences are to do with ‘how’ we live, the arts are to do with ‘why’ we live.
I graduate with my masters in physics this year and I am TERRIFIED because I feel so torn about what to do next. I have *zero* plans for the summer onwards. It feels really overwhelming and scary. This video gave me some food for thought...
I agree, go study what you want. In the end it’s your life.
I feel like the disappointment coming from people that went and dropped out/finished uni and say that the degree “isn’t worth it” or “pays little” comes from having wrong expectations. University is a place where you come to study something you’re interested in, to learn about different things, to learn about yourself as well, not a place where you go just to get a degree to get a good job.
I agree that it’s not something anybody can do - go to study what you want without worrying about money, but if someone can’t really afford uni and they’re not interested in studying but in earning money, they should go to work, not to uni cause it will be a waste of money
this nudged me into thinking about a lot of things and i don't have anything coherently formed into words right now, but i suppose i should sit down and write some notes for myself. thank you for the food for thought Leena!
you're really beautiful lena! your hair looks so shiny and healthy in this video and your skin is literally perfect!
The phrase that used to leave my mouth and so too my cohort is ‘ what is this degree actually worth?’ Was such a boggling way to look at it. We had put a price on our craft and what financial value it had to the outside world rather than ourselves. We’re all a bit older and more life experienced and I’d say at least 80% of my cohort have gravitated back to theatre/ music now there’s not the pressure of monetary value. Now that I’ve had time to breath and found a way to explore theatre again and have a stable job I’m much happier. ( I’m in a burlesque troupe that do regular shows but I don’t have the pressure of organising it all as well).
As someone who studied a creative degree and is now working slightly left of field than anticipated (still using my skillset, but not as directly creative as I'd expected when graduating), your sentiment about having a "rich internal world" really struck a chord with me... Some great thoughts!
So true about so called "practical degrees". I did maths and lots of people really think that's practical and serious and businessy and let me tell you, I will almost certainly never use my knowledge of knot theory and symmetry in my career. I took zero applied courses and almost 100% pure maths courses.
I think whatever you are studying you are also learning to think and learn. Which is always valuable.
🤷♀️ I'm 28 and I still haven't gone to post secondary. I probably would if it were free, but I can't justify the cost. Especially since I have ADHD, and I know that I won't complete any of the projects outside of the classroom. This has only been compounded by the fact that there isn't any one thing that I'm passionate about or am excellent at. I think I would need both to stick with it, which really would be a waste of time and money.
I'm a very generally curious person, so if I find something I'm interested in, there are lots of free resources available to learn from.
I recognize that at some point things might change, and I find a subject worth going to school for.... but even if I had done a degree that would be relevant to that field, there's no guarantee that what I learned would be relevant by that point. Which would mean I would have to go back to school again to re-educate myself anyway.
I have a decent job that I don't hate doing. I don't see myself quitting if I only end up doing it to get a degree in something I'm lukewarm about to get roughly the same wage and level job satisfaction.
In my privileged and humble opinion. A. Choose a school for technical excellence over sexy conceptualization. Concept is ALWAYS changing. Even if you're misemployed, (for 10 years) you'll bounce right back into your work. B. Immerse yourself as much as you are able to. The people you meet there will help shape who you are to become and stick with you forever. I wouldn't trade my BFA for anything else.
I studied Drama, with a focus on youth work & design and now I’m a stage manager. Plenty of work in it if you are a grafter, but of course really scary to enter the live arts world at the moment. I’ve spent the last couple of years being disappointed by cancellations. I’m thinking of a career change, but I will 100% still use my drama degree, whatever that new career might be. I’m thinking Architecture/ Social Work / teaching (yep I have no idea - but all include creativity, problem solving, reading 😍, project management) ✨
I’m grateful that I was able to do my degree of choice. It has no direct bearing on my current career but studying a BA in a subject I was fascinated to learn more about (and also figuring out how to live more independently away from my parents) is worth the student loan repayments every month
almost finished my first semester in uni studying sociology and asian studies, and i cant stop saying how glad i am for choosing so!
this is what im good at and what im interested in and even tho its less career driven, it makes my life better and will open so many doors.
whatever you choose - please choose something you like.
BA in Acting here, and now I work in database administration, ha! Don't regret my degree one bit, it was the thing I was really really passionate about and determined to pursue a career in. That didn't work out but I had a wonderful time dedicating three years to a passion and making friends for life. Sure, I was 'behind' peers in terms of 'career success' when I decided to stop pursuing acting three years after graduating and spent several years slightly aimless in entry level jobs, but I found something that I'm good at, find engaging and earn money I'm happy with! The idea of going straight from a degree into a really related job is probably still true for some career paths, but for most I think it's much more common (and fun, even though it doesn't necesssarily feel that way at the time) to float between things for a while into you find something that fits you
I understand what you mean and I totally agree with you, I just want to point out that nowadays there are many ways to learn and uni isn't always the best aproach depending on the person.
Some of my family members have put pressure on me to go to uni, didn't even matter the degree. all they wanted was for me to go through that experience. But I don't deal well with the way things are taught in the art degrees. I took a specialized path in highschool and in the subjects that were really important to me, mostly printmaking(the field i specialized in), I know from what people that went to Uni, are not really treated as something important here. and I need to keep my hands busy, I prefer to listen about the theorical part while I keep my hands moving and if it sticks to my brain it's something valuable to remember. I've always had "good grades" and "did well" in school. but I don't understand why is it important to know stuff for a test if you're going to forget about it right after? why waste the energy on writing papers about topics you don't care about when you could read about those topics and move on? and even if you're doing the "right degree for you" there will be always things you don't care about that you are forced to study.
I know that Uni works for many people but I'm quite stubborn and from what I heard from my friends that are there, it's not the path I want to take. I could go if it made sense because in portugal Uni is an ok price. but it just doesn't make sense to me. I rather do other courses in printmaking workshops and actually do stuff with my hands.
If I can't be an artist without uni it's ok, I'm fine with being a crafts person. I just want to work with my hands and I tired of people making it seam like I'm wasting potential by pursuing that instead of the more educated path. I'd rather leave space there for someone who actually wants to be there 😅 sorry for the rant. sometimes it feels nice to vent to strangers on the internet.
Thank you for making this video! I recently graduated from my arts degree clinging onto some hope that I could be some small cog in the machine in an arts job out of it - but so far it hasn't gone that way (but there's still hope!) I had put so much stock in my self-esteem being attached to whether I have 'wasted my time or not' in doing a degree I genuinely enjoyed and loved when it risked misemployment and the potential depression that comes with that. This video showed that there are many reasons why one may take a degree and there is still absolute worth in it even if it doesn't turn out as intended :D
Some advice for anyone thinking of doing an art degree from someone who is on one currently: What Leena said about the difference in the amount of teaching yourself/structure is absolutley true. I am in my 3rd yr of an animation degree and I literally only have like 4/5 taught sessions a week? In first year I was like omg yes free time! and did nothing on my days off but I quickly learnt it was not free time but time you should be spending working. If you don't like that kind of absolute free roam or feel that you don't do well without structure then you may not like this kind of degree.
Also if you are in the UK and want to take an art degree I would 100% reccomend doing a foundation year. They are 1yr art courses that are free if you are under 19 and you can probably find one not too far away from home (or you can move to do one at a bigger uni if you want). My one introduced me to the idea of studio practice and absolute free roam for work and so if you don't know how much you will like that sort of environment you can test it out. They also had waaaaay better advice for UCAS and applying to art degrees than my highschool did because thats their specialism. They did special portfolio reviews for specific subjects and let us talk to students/teachers on their uni courses about their experience/what they were looking for and if you applied to their uni you got to skip part of the interview process (so if you are desperate to go somewhere specific but don't think your skills are quite good enough yet you can do a foundation there to build your skills and also jump the queue a little). Of course not all foundation courses are created equal but it was a good stepping stone between uni and highschool and it was free!
there isn't any alumni system for public university in France, so I created a facebook group when I graduated from arts history. I wished I was able to speak to former graduates when I was studying but hopefully I'll be able to help some current students that way... If only the teachers remember to advertise our facebook group every year to their 1st year students. I'm sad we don't have a more sustainable system than that.
This is a great video! As someone who is now in a job that has nothing to do with my career I can’t agree more. I was so focussed on going to uni that I didn’t really look into the degree. The course turned out to be far too easy for me which meant I ended up teaching g myself a new skill. It is that skill that has got me a job in software, which turned out to be the perfect job for me.
“I don’t plan on having many descendants.” ✨ Will be using that.
I think the problem isn’t with the arts in and of themselves. The subjects and disciplines are worth studying and can produce stable careers, but the quality of the education is often very poor. People don’t respect the arts, and that means students, universities and teachers are not held to a high standard. You shouldn’t be teaching yourself in a fine arts degree - that wasn’t a misunderstanding on your part, that was the university failing you. Students aren’t ‘encouraged to be independent’ or ‘given more freedom’ like the marketing says, they are basically scammed! Unfortunately a lot of people who study arts degrees graduate without the skills they need to compete for jobs in the arts. They were not taught the skills they needed, so they are rejected, and people looking in from the outside blame the subject choice as a whole, instead of looking into the individual person’s portfolio book and realising how little guidance the university actually gave them in 3/4 years. I have seen myself how a hardworking student can come out of a fine arts degree drawing and painting no better than they did in high school. They did as they were told, never missed a beat, and they still acquired no technical skills whatsoever
Omg this!
I went to uni and did a ‘serious’ science degree and worked in a lab after and ended up ditching it as it wasn’t for me. Often get asked what was even the point of my degree as I no longer work in academic science. Well thankfully I loved my degree so don’t regret not picking something else and what I got from my degree was infinitely more than the the subject I studied. Lots of different skills learned and increased confidence and broadened horizons and all that jazz!
If I was asked now advice on picking a course it would be pick something you are actually interested in! Don’t just pick a course because of other peoples opinions or whatever as you have to put the work in for years to get your degree and giving a shit about the topic really helps!
Yes you have some things like medicine, law etc that is a very clear path but if you are not on those career paths then study what you want and develop as a person
My sister did an art degree and had kids straight out of uni. She's been financially struggling for over a decade because of it. But they were some of the best years of her life and she regrets nothing.
This is honestly really valuable thank you!! And I agree, of course I’m speaking from the position of a person not yet attaining a degree, from what i can observe it really does not matter what specific major you learn your skills; it’s important how you apply them and with what level of passion and expertise
On 'keeping people from despair' as a skill--I'm listening to TOGETHER by Vivek Murthy and his coverage of the research about genetic and scientific studies into loneliness, isolation, depression, and ALTERNATIVES (!!!) is really interesting. Think you might appreciate too 🤗
I got a degree in chemistry and quickly found that the options at the bachelors level in my area were absolutely horrible. They were monotonous, boring, and barely paid more than working at the local grocery store. After a few years of hopping around these boring jobs, I went back to school for my masters degree in a complete different field.
I would love to hear you and Russel Brand have a chat about whatever the heck you guys would like. Could talk about walls drying and I'd be fixated faster than the wallpaper on said wall. 😊
The job market is weird, e.g. I work in the mining industry as an engineer 4years out of uni and train drivers get paid a lot more than me. To get qualified they do 18months of training (paid for by their company!) and don't need any skills before that, though typically they come from a track worker background. Granted they do night shifts and long hours and the work is mind numbing, but when I get stressful work it seems like a pretty sweet deal. Like why was nobody telling me to do that when I grew up?
I really appreciated this video! Thanks for sharing your thoughts
Such a great and considered response!
Great video - you make lots of interesting points.
I don't regret going to uni for a year and then dropping out - I got a great experience trying out a lot of different visual arts practices, and if I don't make much money then I never have to pay my uni fees back. I think if I hadn't had something to leap into after highschool I would have fallen into a much bigger depressive hole. Though maybe I would have worked out my mental health issues if I'd crashed earlier.... I'm currently starting art teaching and I'm not sure that it's where I want to go with my life, but I'm teaching a community group so I haven't had to become qualified for it, I just have to be enthusiastic and knowledgeable. I just feel I might not have any direction if I hadn't gone with art
Thanks Leena insightful as always and makes me excited to resume my honours in English literature :)
I thought I was being practical by going into journalism instead of English and then I went and graduated in 1993, after several years of the newspaper industry contracting massively at the start of the great corporate conglomeration of media into the hands of a few companies. This process is still happening, as a consequence, I've been mis-employed in academia for thirty years, which ironically where I was afraid of ending up, which is why I went into journalism in the first place.
I actually chose the other option. The two things I can see myself doing are electrical engineering and costume design. I chose to go with engineering and don't regret it even a bit! The thing is: it's probably more creative and engaging than what a typical costume designer would do on a day to day basic. Creativity is hidden in many places :)
I am feeling so encouraged to keep pursuing what I'm good at in my uni degree. This is my last year of undergrad and I'm super excited to be part of the film industry. Keep on making amazing content :)
Is a liberal arts degree worth the money? Short answer: It depends on your values. If you are just looking for quick ROI and don't care about personal development, then no. If you understand how education pays back over time, how it helps you be a critical thinker, and how it opens worlds for you, then yes.
I am the very first woman on both sides of my family to go to college and the first woman on both sides of my family to get a Master's degree, so NOBODY will ever convince me that it doesn't matter.
I'm at an impasse myself with academia, so the timing for this video is just truly on point for me. I'm working on my MA thesis, and will hopefully graduate this year. Already waiting to hear from a potential PhD scholarship and found a program I'm interested in. My BA was in the humanities and my MA is in the social sciences, though I've done a bit of both in both degrees. The field I study is very current (digital culture), so people I know who work in tech have repeatedly told me I could definitely get jobs in that field, even now. I work in PR to support myself and my boss has also joked that I'm on the wrong track and should do it full time, same goes for marketing. So I keep having these lucrative jobs, some more interesting than others, dangled in front of me like a carrot (which is already a huge privilege) while I stubbornly trudge through my 20's to pursue the dream of academia, in which there is plenty of rejection, fierce competition and not a lot of money. So I made a decision. I'll finish what I started, and I'll reevaluate for real, with no judgement, if I still want this enough.
BUT - NONE of this has made me regret a second of my education thus far. I am a far better thinker and a more well-rounded person, and I have had the privilege to engage in truly fascinating discourse that would not have been as high quality or accessible otherwise. PLUS, my abilities to work with complex texts, edit, translate and summarize have all been absolute gifts in PR, and my digital culture expertise has come in handy too since I work with tech companies. AND my creative side helps me come up with good ideas for clients.
I was fortunate that my BA was rather affordable (thanks Israel) and my MA now is completely free (thanks Germany), so financially to me it's more about the time resources and the wages I could have earned working full time, plus the mental toll and energy it consumes. I will always have a soft spot for academia even if I don't manage to be the cool professor I've dreamed about being. Now I'm trying to find my way back to creating on my own time again, for me, and I'm more excited about expanding my dreams and where I'd like to find myself in the future.
On a happier note - my mum wanted to design record covers for a living. She went to art school and is a graphic designer and has comfortably worked in her industry/area for like 30 years.
She earned £45k (at least) in one of her jobs before the company went bust. Then moved to another company which did catering for work places and schools, and obv the pandemic screwed that up.
But she actually earnt more in-between bc of her freelance work and her etsy shop took off (Queen Bee Art studios if anyone is interested- cards, prints, watercolour pet portraits...)
You can make lots of money if you're willing to work hard, EVEN if you don't live in London.
The only reason I'm emphasising that is bc it seems the creative industry lives there but rest assured there's a lot of small scale indie companies that need your skills.
Moral of the story; don't do history unless you want to work in a museum, academia, teach or do admin. 🤣
I graduated my acting degree in the early 00’s and spent so much money trying to find work at first and earned nothing. I went into catering! Personally I wish I’d waited till I was a bit older (at 19) to decide what my ‘thing’ was going to be.
Drama ‘school’ can do a real number on people, the methods back then… I hoped they’ve changed!
I’d love a do-over degree, to study a different sector/subject but now Brits can only get one student loan = one bachelors degree, unless we have £40k ish to pay fees etc which obv I don’t!
Lots of my peers have gone into teaching, one writes plays and a couple still act.
There were fun parts to those 3 years but in hindsight I wish I hadn’t wasted, what I now know to be my one shot at a degree on my teen-dream of being a successful actor 😅
There's a postgraduate fund that I accessed to do a master's degree (it's not the same subject I did for my first degree) - it covers tuition but not maintenance, however I found part time work that just about covered my rent which made that workable for me :)
@@nottheseawitch what was the difference between your bachelors and masters? Subject wise and work wise. A dissertation wasn’t required for my degree and thank dog bc I only found out I’m dyslexic at Uni. Is a post grad well harder?! 😅 (you don’t have to tell me stranger, I’m just interested) and was this recently?
I have an arts degree in psychology. Unless you are one of the few ppl able to go onto the limited entry course you are likely to end up at least temporarily misemployed. However I would never take back my degree! I could have completed the exact same degree as a science instead of arts as econ was my minor but I wanted to take some arts papers. So I would be in the exact same position despite having a "science" degree. Also, Friends of mine who studied biology and got great marks struggled to find a job and ended up having to retrain.
Honestly where were you when I was 17 making Big Decisions I didn't feel ready to make? 🤣 (26 and jaded now haha)
Things I'd also suggest on top of Lenas lovely points:
- do work experience in the places/industries you want to work/have interest in
Don't get stuck at the filing cabinet, ask people questions, get involved, even if it's scary.
- apply for what YOU want to study.
Ignore your family and follow your dreams.
Don't be me; i listened to my entire family who went "oh you can do that in your spare time". I suck at managing my time and love to procrastinate. I still haven't written my book, it's been 16 years.
- you don't have to do it straight away
There's so much pressure from all the adults in your life to make decisions about things that feel like they're gonna tie you down forever. It's okay to say no, it doesn't feel like an option but it is.
As an adult with hindsight:
- I should have done a gap year and told my fam I was depressed as fuck at 17
- I would do WAY better now I have decipline to do my job (when my phone is downstairs)
- I would have done so much better doing creative writing mixed with something applicable. E.g. journalism
- your degree will get you over the £25k threshold if you do admin but no one asks you about it, like ever. (I did classics... its useless, even in the pub quiz).
- I'm good at admin but bored out my mind... yay.
Really enjoyed this video! Did make me laugh when you said that 'liberal arts' is a wide umbrella term that doesn't tell you about your plan, bc 'liberal arts' is literally the title of my degree😅 I spend a good percentage of my professional life explaining what my degree actually entailed to people, but the skills and experiences it gave me has helped me hugely in my career!
YES! It's infuriating seeing what the government has done regarding arts degrees here in Australia. They decided to make arts degrees exponentially more expensive to pay for the "more valuable" degrees like STEM and teaching. Not saying that these degrees aren't important, but my god is this a stupid way to solve problems of under staffing
I think it's so individual. I am doing a fine art degree at ual currently and I am SO happy it couldn't be better for me but I also understand how it's not the right choice for some people. If anyone is considering a fine art degree and wants to talk to me I am happy to share my experience but I think it's not as black and white as people make out. Some people love it and get great job opportunities from an arts degree and some people feel it's wrong for them
This notification popped up on the screen whilst I am typing my last minute Illustration degree personal statement… help!
I loved my art degree, It taught me critical thinking, and self discipline we were basically given a desk and told to "produce work" for the exhibition. so self time management and motivation was essential! However - this was in the 2000's so the tuition fees were nothing like they are today so although i would absolutely say study a subject you enjoy - I understand the huge financial costs..
Liberal arts degrees are fine if you have practical minors with great experiential learning and/or graduate degrees in practical areas
I studied environmental science and visual arts, but ended up dropping arts and pursuing honours in science. I was lucky to get a public service job out of uni and is somewhat related to my degree, but it is still very policy/process driven and not at all true STEM. Alot of the more research-based work that I'm interested in required making good connections at uni, which I missed out on because I am extremely introverted and any spare moment I had I was working in a Cafe to fund moving out of home. In hindsight, I really had no idea what I wanted out of uni - I enjoyed visual art, but think I started science because I knew I wouldn't make it as an artist quite early into art school. At no point did I consider the secondary jobs in the arts, like you mentioned.. so felt I had to commit to science to have a secure job out of uni. Now, im deeply unhappy with my job and don't have the skills to easily change sectors.
Why do we keep putting pressure on teens to go to uni so early? At eighteen I was just trying to please the people around me and had no idea what I wanted out of life or any idea how to properly understand the choices I was making.