Bill Ruger's Prototype WW2 Light Machine Gun
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- Опубликовано: 22 окт 2024
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In April 1940, the US Ordnance Department circulated a request for a new light machine gun to replace the Browning M1919A4. It was to be shorter and lighter than the Browning, and was not to be based on the Browning system (presumably the Department wanted to move on from the bulky and heavy 1919 system to something more modern). Being an optimistic and self-confident young engineer at the time, Bill Ruger figured, "How hard could it be?". He whipped up a design and took it to the Auto-Ordnance corporation, who promptly wrote up a contract to build the gun and submit it to trials.
As it turns out - and as Ruger would later write - it could be quite hard to create a ground-up new design to beat John Browning's work in just 4 or 5 months (shocking!). When Ruger's gun was tested, it was found to have a few good aspects, but was generally unreliable and failed to complete the scheduled 10,000-round endurance test. All of the other guns in that trial failed for various reasons, though, and a second trial was scheduled, giving the manufacturers time to improve their designs. Ruger and Auto-Ordnance were unable to substantially correct the problems with the gun, however, and it did as badly in the second trial as it had in the first. Ultimately, a separate procurement process by the Infantry Department would result in the M1919A6 Browning, which was adopted for the role of light machine gun.
This experience would serve Ruger well, as he would go on to do quite a lot more work with Auto-Ordnance before forming his own tremendously successful company.
Thanks to the Cody Firearms Museum for allowing me access to film this one-of-a-kind machine gun! Check them out here: centerofthewes...
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
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The gun reminds me of the Forgotten Weapons logo.
There was an even better one but the video was uploaded a loooong time ago and I forgot. If anyone remembers the video please paste it here. People said in the comment section that Ian should get it for the channel.
sogerc1 The OSS flying dragon?
@@potatojerry2511 Yes, thank you!
@@potatojerry2511 Nice catch! For some reason I hadn't taken note of that gun's similarity back when the video came out, but now that you mentioned it, it's almost like the spitting image of the F. :D
The scary thing is that thing looks Rugerish lmao. The dude likes round squares shapes lmao.
US Gov't: "Your gun is too hard to disassemble>"
Bill Ruger: "You should see this .22 pistol I'm working on..."
To be fair, that .22 pistol flies apart. It just takes 3 days, numerous beers, and my entire four-word vocabulary (which is both extensive and imaginative) to get it back together.
I heard that the MK4 is much better to disassemble than its predecessors
Herk North I spent way too many hours trying to reassemble a MKI. Barrel up, hold the trigger down, dingus in the right spot, and it goes together no problem.
@@Turbogyros Oh yeah, the MK4 ROCKS!
I don't get why people have so many problems with the Ruger .22 pistols. I've had a Ruger Mk I completely apart with nothing but a hammer, some punches, some picks, and a block of wood, and got it back together fairly easily. The only "gotcha" is that spike on the hammer which has to go in the mainspring dimple. I've seen much simpler guns that are physically hard to put together due to pinned parts being under heavy spring loading. This one just takes referencing the diagram and a few simple tools. As for why I had the gun so thoroughly disassembled, all the springs were totally shot and I had to hand fit new Mark III springs to it. That required some file work to account for nearly 40 years of parts tolerance differences.
So from this, it sounds like the 1919A6 was the 8-track of machineguns. Actually quite good for it's originally intended purpose, but with significant flaws that were made more prominent when taken out of it's original context.
The A6 was also extremely long, a problem in itself considering the new application. All the same, an interesting gun. I sold one in 2011, an impressive beast.
Matthew Dobbs I've got one! You're correct.
Kind of disappointing that Ian didn't show the under side of the barrel where it is stamped "Before using weapon to engage the enemy read warnings in the instruction manual. Available from Auto Ordnance Corp Bridgeport CT"
Interesting!
Never knew Bill Ruger designed a machine gun!
Unfortunately, Bill Ruger refused to ship them with more than 10 rounds per belt of ammunition and it was rejected.
Correction... 15 round was his proposed limit...
@@jackdundon2261 He must have loved the M1 Carbine.
US GOVT: It needs to ship with this much per belt
Bill Ruger: NO, I refuse
US GOVT: I guess you don't like money
Which is why I'll never own a Ruger.
@@emperorpalpatine1228 I know what your trying to say. Although it's really stupid, your trying to make a point, and nobody cares. It's like, I won't buy levi jeans as they are anti second amendment. BUT, if I am given a pair, I will wear them. (I go through jeens pretty fast).
In the real world, the ruger 10-22 is the one to own, though, if you have money to burn, you can buy a magnum research clone.
What a neat story! Having been a young-ish engineer once, reading "Proposals for Research" and "Requests For Development" I think I know a bit of what Bill Ruger might have thought at the outset. I took on one such - ostensibly a 6-8 month project that took 2-1/4 years of 80 hour weeks. It was, to the surprise of those involved, somewhat successful, and much of what we learned and developed would later be adopted by industry on a large scale - but for entirely different reasons than the objective of the original project! My own work later on included a better understanding of how fast new ideas can be developed.
This is interesting too in as much as Bill Ruger went on to develop some iconic designs and a name for himself in firearms history. As you say, I bet Bill learned from this project, and as a bonus his idea wasn't entirely bad. The story reminded me a bit of the Owen gun' story - a crude prototype idea from a novice, that sort of worked (although the Owen was refined by others into a rugged and reliable gun). It's more than many have done in similar situations. Thanks for posting this one Ian.
_Top Gear_ has taught me that all the best engineering failures start with the sentence, "How hard can it be?"
I'm a gun collector and now I'm addicted to this chanel ...
MrRiccardo1965 don t worry me too
Which chanel do you prefer, No. 5?
That doesn’t look anything like a my Mini-fourteen or 10-22
gullreefclub yep! Mini had way to thin of a barrel. You could almost bend it looking at it! lol
This channel is why RUclips is worth my while.
About a month ago I convinced two of my friends who know almost nothing about guns to go to the Cody Firearms Museum, they were absolutely fascinated by it. its definitely worth a trip all on its own.
With a barrel detachment system like that I imagine there would be plenty of burned hands
Knowing 1940s us government they would've issued bright white asbestos mits that would be easily lost to change the barrels.
With that nut good lock with mits.
seriously with all advanced industrial capacity and capability providing luxuries of standard issue battle rifle to boots, why murica could not possesed more practical lmg than a wwi relics (bar).
@@jalpat2272 Money.
They did want to spend it.
@@sjoormen1 That would be an easy change though. A couple wings welded on would allow a fast quarter turn. I imagine that the front lug attachment was the awkward bit, especially with heat distorting the metal and carbon build up around the gas port.
The only gun Bill Ruger ever made that he was ok making with more than a 10 round capacity
Daniel Cook Early 70’s/80’s Mini’s came standard with 20 round mags
"The Sedgely Company, whose gun was a complete dumpster fire". Rarely do I laugh out loud while watching forgotten weapons.
My son and I went to this place this Summer. Spent 2 full days there. Incredible. They even helped me with a Winchester 1897 I have. Great people and a great place.
Usa: The belt feed in between the gas piston assembly and the bolt? How smart and innovative!
Darne machine gun: am I a joke to you?
I heard of gunners taking bolts out of the 1919 to drill lightening holes in it, increasing cyclic rate & dirty reliability
I always find that dubious.... bolts are typically heat treated to be very hard thus difficult to drill in field condition
@@simonp347
Never underestimate the ability of board solders to do things that you couldn't pay them to do.
@@Lordfornicateyolo420 learn to fuckwit, spell.
@@simonp347 those guys knew to heat to straw w torch to temper just the rear mass of the bolt & they had a small machine shop crew at every naval outpost in the pacific, no matter how small. They would just drill a few small strategic holes &/or lightening cuts w/endmill or drill press
@@Lordfornicateyolo420 Go be a douche somewhere else.
Who needs a 10-round LMG?
Nobody. A 30+ (preferably 60+) round LMG is just what people needed.
@@jackandersen1262 *Whoosh*
Apparently the United states
In bills opinion
Possibly California do to gun laws
@@googletristinthefoxngamer4709 When is a civilian ever going to need 10 rounds?
This gun and your closing statement is a perfect example of something I tell people all the time; don't miss out on something because you're afraid of failure. This gun may not have panned out, but Bill Ruger's career certainly did and maybe he wouldn't have had so much success if it weren't for projects like this.
Great video, Ian, you are getting better and better content every day.
Thank you , Ian .
Very interesting .
look at that jakobs grip right there
Channel name once again reaffirmed! Well done,Sir!
Bill Ruger also took a Savage Model 99 and converted it to a gas operated semi-auto rifle and presented it to the military.
Wow. I wonder if it still had the Round Counter and Rotary Mag
After hearing the Sedgeley (sic?) Was a dumpster fire, I really wanna see it now.
Me too...sometimes they are the MOST interesting guns!
Did this come standard with a 2 round magazine?
Evil_Teddy I like that you bring this up :) fookin bill ruger, almost bankrupted his company with one statement.
I recently visited the Buffalo Bill Center of the West and the Cody Firearms Museum.
I have a question:
How long did you have sit and model for your statue out front?
Wait he has a statue?
Wait he has a statue?
ive been to the Cody museum a few times before. the amount of guns they have there is absolutely staggering.
I sure do love watching Gun Jesus at 5:44 am
You know you should've gone to bed when his notification pops up
4:39am here..
To paraphrase Don Rickles, "It's not a complete waste;it can always serve as a bad example.
Ian, as ego crushing as failure is often thought to be, it is often a greater instructor; if you succeed, you have learned one way to succeed- failure often has many reasons, each a lesson in how not to do a thing. Bill Ruger has been to the DoD proving grounds many times, and some of his submittals have been as good or better than the winners- go dig into the process that brought us the 1992 Baretta- Rugers entry was a P09, double action, ambi saftey, tack hammer- it out shot the Baretta, was actually made on a production line , in the US; the Baretta was built overseas, custom assembled and tuned, did not complete the continuous fire section and was less accurate, though the handlers Interarms provided had very good credentials- and Baretta would not take the assembly challenge; Ruger submitted 100 guns, per the spec- they were all disassembled, pieces piled on a table, then reassembled by different people, and all fired- and all were from a real factory, in the US- the Baretta winner had to build that factory, (I believe they leased facilities from Interarms), but made the first delivery from overseas production- which was not allowed by the DoD Request. this process began under GHW Bush and finished early in Clinton's first term. Now we are back to the Proving Grounds to find a weapon that has "better stopping power"- .40 cal or better. Just like Bill Ruger and every long service trooper said they would.FR
three browning modified guns competed against this Ruger Prototype......Ian, you know what to do.
Brilliant Ian! Thanks.
Rich.
"Big gulps eh? Well see ya later"
"...And this...went nowhere, further". Great looking gun, too bad it didn't pan out. Thanks, Ian.
Lunacy and Bill went hand in hand ,He did go to his grave thinking the mini-14 would have been a better military rifle then the m16 😬
If I was in charge of logistics and transporting of these, I'd bе ecstatic. This looks so damn easy to package.
Sure you can whip up a new MG design on an impossible schedule that's better and lighter than the Browning... if you're John Moses Browning
I wonder if the oversized pins have something to do with the wonky tripod system.
nothing like a glass of wine and gun jesus sharing the good word to help me relax after work
Always wonder how they square corner cut the internal interrupted threads on these types of nuts, seen these on WW1 and way older artillery as well, same thing, sharp corner blended perfectly. My only guess is a special broach, or on the larger ones I have wondered about an universal dividing head gear linked to a shaper with a perfectly shaped tool bit. Ideas?
Franken machine gun. Very interesting, trust Ruger eh! Talking impossible projects, P51 Mustang, what a job!
Now I'm curious about the Sedgley.
Some of the features on that one remind me of some things on the mini 14 and the 10/22
FYI. The receiver/barrel screw threads technical name is an “Interrupted Buttress Thread”.
Good video but so glad my country had the Bren gun; if the barrel needs to come off quick, put a handle on it. Meanwhile the M60 happens.
Shut up and put on some oven mitts and help me with this pig
The tripod might have hade something similar to a MK93 mount that has recoil buffers, therefore the entire gun would recoil and probably might make high speed photography kinda difficult
One can learn more from the mistakes than from from the successes, IMO.
Depends. I should be an expert on relationships by now, whereas in reality...
Václav Fejt you ain’t kiddin bro
The rear pins definitely isn't original on this thing. You can see the spring detents and the keyway for the original pins on the left hand side of the rear block.
did it only have 15 round belts?
I can die happy hearing Ian say "dumpster fire"
Definitely not the first time he's said it.
For '43 or '44, those are excellent welds.
2:00 - 2:37 Maybe they thought about copying the MG 34?
So I’m sitting in a hospital waiting room as I type this waiting for my wife to get out of surgery. Of course I’m using the hospital’s WiFi while I wait. I click on this video to watch it and I get a message that this is a restricted video. I have to switch off their WiFi to be able to see it.
That sucks, you shouldn't be denied Gun Jesus.
Use a VPN, it works
so many wifi sites program into their relaying equipment words like “gun” and reject their connection with you.
too many ‘word police.’
all black rifles matter
@@noretreat151 or it might be the hospital sees "gun" enough on it's medical forms, and doesn't want anyone to get ideas....
@@m4rvinmartian At the end of the day, its the hospitals wifi, they pay for it, they can block what they want.
Somewhat reminds me of hungarian Gebauer MGs.
Half expected a Japanese Luger.
Those exist?
No just joking
Hey Ian, been watching your videos for a long time now and rarely comment. I was wondering, do you ever look at blank firing guns and things like starting pistols for sports events? Maybe you have, but I don't recall seeing any of late...
He has an episode on exactly that topic. He was in Canada at the movie gun company.
Citizen None - Ah righto... I'll search Ian's videos for that, cheers. :)
Citizen None - I just re-watched this video "Charlie Taylor Interview: Blank Fire Guns for the Movies", and do remember it... There is also this one, "Guns in the Movies - like this S&W Model 29", that I remember too, silly me I guess. Not seen any videos on things like the 8MM blank firing FN Browning high power pistol, model GPDA8 by Umarex, or similar. :)
@@DaveLennonCopelandI hope you find what you're looking for mate.
@@DaveLennonCopeland sorry I couldn't be more descriptive. I hope you find what you're looking for. God himself wont have info Ian hasn't already shared in some way I can assure you.
Bill ruger, antigun as hell. Nothing helped the company more than him going away
Ruger should offer that pistol grip as an option on the Ruger precision rifle.
A belt fed mini 30.
Thank you.
If we could tell more about it the desine could probably be improved on and made to work.
That is cool! A Ruger machine gun........ Had I not seen it it would be hard to even believe.
Is it possible the tri-pod attached just forward the trigger? The trunnion at the back of the receiver looks to have some very specific cuts on the right side and on the left it has two indents with very clear semi-circle markings going over them (like a set of levers that perhaps allow a mount to clamp down). Also, you mention the "over-size" takedown pins on the right side: perhaps they were made that way to clear the tri-pod mount?
Man, that's a big pistol ;)
Poor Ruger ... with so much requirements in a rush, Browning probably saw this and be like " I got a bad feeling about this ... ".
Browning wouldn't think anything at that point bro he was dead for 15 years
So I, maybe foolishly, didn't realize Ruger was designing guns this early on. With that in mind, do you think wartime production barebones economical firearms inspired his companies focus on low cost, cast, relatively simple firearms designs?
watch these everyday
america: we need a machine gun that is light weight and can have really good covering fire
ruger: 22. take it leave it
Downside is it only had a 10 round magazine
Manual focus for the close-ups would be nice...
The over sized pins are for a leather shoulder strap
Was surprised to see a modern Allen bolt in front of the trigger, until I did a google search!
A Ruger? Comes with complimentary mullet.
put a barret muzzle break on it and it looks like something from fallout, like a handmade machine gun from older games
This looks like something you'd stick in a tank
Mag limited to 10 rounds ?
ro eng yea that way you can empty your load quickly
2nd. Bill Rogers prototype looks a lot like your insignia for forgotten weapons is that is it one in the same
I believe the logo is based on this bad larry: ruclips.net/video/E0R8FHpGQis/видео.html
I wonder how the receiver is made? Folded heavy gauge metal or welded together from several pieces?
Around the 10:00 mark, is there another pin, like the firing pin, protruding from the face of the extractor?
Call of duty Vanguard's "Whitley lmg"
would be cool to see a M1919 stinger if you could find one
looks a lot like the mounted .30 for the loader on an M1 Abrams...
5:30 Woulld that be the t10 machine gun?
wouldn't it be smarter to just modify the M1919 due to parts availability?
also that has no shoulder stock
I have bid and won many military programs. RFQ = request for quote. There is a specification and statement of work. I was always subprime like power supplies for the F-16. My father won many prime mobile artillery contracts, like the M55, M109, and M110.
Am I the only one that thinks that it should have a carry/barrel handle, a wood clad handle on the retaining nut and unlocking lever, and say a half inch long tapered guide lug on the gas connection?
what is the background noise? its like that generic st:tos hum when they are in some sort of mechanical space on the enterprise
I've got to check out Cody firearms museum.
You won't regret it!
@@onelonecelt9168 If I can swing maybe 4-ish or so days off & the roads aren't too bad this winter, it'd be an ideal road trip candidate. A good 7 hour drive, but it'd be so cool!
@@squib308 Good luck to you! I went this summer so I didn't have to contend with roads, lol.
Looks like pipe wrench
The mechanism doesn't seem so ridiculous. If it had been in development longer, it might have been improved.
Wow! Whuttapos!-John in Texas
you always learn more from failure than success
Is it just me or was AutoOrdnance the KelTec of the early 1900s?
Looks like they used a blank pump shotgun receiver and modified it.
"Less then 22 pounds."
That seems completely unreasonable... Even modern machine guns weigh like 30...
How strong would you have to be to fire it one handed?!
I want to hear more about the Sedgley dumpster fire. It sounds quite interesting.
One does not simply replace a Browning
So why didn't the USA adopt the Stinger 1200 rpm used on aircraft like the rear gunner Avenger or the German mg 42 which is used by many countries ?
Still had the same issues of the normal 1919 in regards to weight
I joined the USMC in 1958 when shipped to Okinawa in 1959 we had a squad of 12 that were crew served weapons which included the Browning A1A machine gun the gun would shoot all day we even had the barrel white hot and bullets would come out all sorts of ways , we just pore oil in the action to keep it going.
Barrel change was very unfriendly using a special tool like a screwdriver and removal of the mainspring could be dangerous.
Our Sargent fought the island war and said they would just keep firing when the Japanese attacked they didn't have anytime to change barrels , just water to cool and oil.
stinger lacks quick barrel change and use lighter barrel than M1919A4 and A6
1200 rpm is too much firepower for an infantry weapon.
Logistically you would not be able to keep your gunners supplied with ammunition.
1200 rpm is great for that one minute fight but in an all day battle.
You would basically be carrying a useless hunk of steel.
I agree the M240 fires about 800 rpm which is enough to do any job and has quick change barrel I am old but just admire any gun especially auto's