I fell absolutely in love with WD2 when I randomly encountered a couple breaking up, the woman up on a balcony, throwing clothes and things down to a crying man in an alley. It made me really think about the amount of work that went in to the world. Never once felt overly repetitive like the GTA games can feel.
Once in a while I boot up this game my recent save is from after you have to buy pants (very early in the game). So last night I was just roaming the city following a random npc. First I pet the dog and the dog some woman stated it is cute and the dog seemed to be hers. She and the dog walked away and I started to follow them. Around the corner another woman bumped in to a man who become very aggressive I tried to use emot to calm them down but I was too late the woman with the dog punched the guy and tool 9mm pistol and shot him. Someone called the police she run away, police came and she for some reason (remorse?) came back with the gun she dropped, police arrested her. I picked up the pistol. Dog lied down next to the dead guy’s corpse and some npc:s walking there were freaked out by the dead guy and run away. Sure maybe it is not perfect but as for system that should generate random events and make the city more believable it is quite good. Maybe I should start recording the footage and share it on YT. As I assume I can generate hours of content that will not repeat itself.
Ubisoft deserves far more credit than they get. It's filled with so many freaking talented individuals. Watch Dogs is a great, unique franchise that I will forever love.
With the 2 years of patches it is better. Which is not me defending it rather being disappointed. But even with the patches cyberpunk does not try to imitate a living city which WD2 did on OK level. From time to time I start WD2 and just walk the streets, waiting for some interaction to happen. And some of them are surprising, some we can take a part it by using emots (like calm down to try to stop the fight).
Well if they would have such a big team(s) as Ubisoft has, then yes.. should the AI in CP2077 be much better ? Of course.. but as a whole, the game is a different style and genre of a game than WD2.. has WD2 non-linear main story? Have the quests in WD2 choices than have consenquences for the end of the game and for other quests? Has the game a deep RPG system? .. no.. in perfect world CP2077 would have the AI system of NPCs from WD2 and with all those things that I menioned already, but with around 400 - 500 people you can't do the same as a team that has 3 000 like Ubisoft had for WD2
@@wes8723 basically WD2 *needs* this complex of a system, because of how many different ways you can pass missions, or just because there isn't as many side content as CP2077, so you are going to be fucking around the open world way more :v
Strop damage controlling CP2077 - it has aspects that are beat by each of the last three major GTA entries (yes, that includes GTAIII, which has better cops/wanted system), just as one example of how mediocre that game is. Most other open worlds games get more, or WAY more, dev time - and it shows, even if we ignore the bugs.
Can confirm. The entire Japanese game industry uses spreadsheets for everything from project management, game design, game pitches to actual game data. It's insane.
I think this has to be one of the most interesting episodes you've released yet! I love the breakdowns of these systems and this set of solutions, in particular, is just really clever. Thanks for another inspiring video!
I am suddenly remembered that there was this game awhile ago, called "The Forest", and I remember that people were saying that the AI for the enemies there was pretty darn advanced. Would love to see your analysis on it.
Hi Tommy! I am one of your AIP students at kcl this year. Love your videos! I have a suggestion for your next series of videos: *Star Citizen* and how they are planning to do AI. I'd love to see the view of an expert AI professor/researcher on this matter! I'm extremely excited for that game and what they will bring to the table in terms of believable AI as they are doing both backend economy simulation (called "quanta") and planning to do AI crew and NPC for the universe they are creating!
@@aizen_rhyme_schemes Rdr2’s npc is lifelike but not lively at all. You get two reactions or lines (agressive/passive) and a routine that some followed. Rdr2’s ai is extremely hard-coded into the game as a lot of it is predetermined while WD2’s is more dynamic and reactions varies without having to choose between aggressive or passive.
Remembering all this made me think how much was stripped out for 'anyone is a protagonist' gimmick in wd3. Such fun mechanics and systems, sucks they didn't have resources to reimplement them.
Legion AI simulation does what the first minute of the reveal of Watch Dogs 1 promised. Thanks to elaborate NPCs schedules and deep profiler you can literally stalk people and their associates. 'Anyone is a protagonist' feature just gave you a good reason to do that.
@@AntonKudin sure. For one the NPC's are on a schedule, compared to the ones in WD2 who either be walking aimlessly, performing a scripted action (breaking into a car, smashing a car, etc.), or performing an infinitely looping animation (taking selfies or fishing indefinitely). Not only are Legion's on a schedule, they are performing actions that are actually relevant to who they are and their personalities. For example, you will see NPC's with the "gambling addict" trait coming out of the horse betting shop where they go to gamble everyday, while their bio says they lost all their money investing in cryptos. You will see elderly people coming out of the retirement home, shopaholics leaving retail stores, and aspiring bare knuckle fighters on their way to fight in the fight club. The other day I was playing with my character and he was hanging outside a travel agency. A woman walked out and I profiled her - she was a travel agent with a desert eagle who frequently posted on gun ownership forums. As she walked, she came to a livestreamer streaming to his fans. She stopped in her tracks and said "wow its you! I follow all your social media". I was blown away at the whole situation. The world is so interconnected and cohesive its insane. Watch Dogs 2 was great but the NPC's were just randomized in an illogical fashion and placed in the world. In Legion, they are actually living in the world and performing actions relevant to who they are.
God I love this game. Could never finish it because I'm a dumbass, but it was so cool to walk around the city and see all the different people and how lifelike they were. Especially neat to see how the developers put it all together! If I could fit more than 5 games on my PS4 at one time maybe I could try to play it again lmao
As a programmer I sometimes feel like a big part of my job is to create spreadsheets. Imteresting to ser what applications they can have in a game design context.
If anyone understands how a data matrix works and making it dynamic, the usage of one as a lookup for the AI seems rather appropriate. Calling something a "spreadsheet" is a misnomer since people not in the data arena have assumptions of low-level functionality. Go play with MS Power BI in MS Excel, tie in some GIS to and make it an interactive dashboard and tell me how it's "just a spreadsheet".
WD2 is a msterpiece with an amazing living-breathing world. The only thing dislike about WD games is that there is no physics involved when it comes to NPC interaction. Notice how they always slide into position in order to play an animation. They can't react withiut first sliding into position. That's the thing I was hoping Ubisoft would change for WDL, but it was exactly the same.
WD1 has a better history but damm WD2 did make the world feel alive, i loved just fucking up with NPCs, and just walking around andshit. Great video, and sadly no watch dogs legion sucked.
15:18 - I hope you'd notice that Legion has a lot more going on under the hood. Because judging by its critical reception people either don't care about Legion AI systems or simply didn't get it. I mean, finally they've made a GTA clone where NPCs on the streets actually matter, because they have schedules, families, friends, colleagues, freely roam the open world and may remember stuff. But people treat the game like a second rate sequel that has nothing interesting in it besides flashy 'play as anyone' feature.
i think it is all too easy to focus on the "game engine programming" aspect of game development when what really drives a game is the variables governing everything in the world. How quickly can the player turn, how tall is the player, how fast can the player run and so on. even "simple" 2D games have reams and reams of this. so its not surprising the devs would end up using a tool designed to manipulate numbers.
Nice Video. I‘ll get me Watchdogs at Sale. In my opinion it’s just another generic UBI Game not worth the full price based on what I have heard from the most gamers.
I don't know about the second, but I think the first is terribly not interesting... Get Watchdogs 2 for sale, instead. Currently $18 at Uplay according to this link : isthereanydeal.com/game/watchdogsiistandardedition/info/
I would hope the systems look better when actually playing the game, because the behaviors in this video footage bluntly look abysmal for portraying a reactive living world. People completely ignore massive traffic accidents, people ignore you tazing someone directly in front of them, people ignore a burning car, a woman ignores a body laying under her vehicle, a cyclist abandons her motorcycle in the middle of an intersection, ...
It's a great game! I find it crazy when people say things about a lot of games today. Earlier someone said God of War (2018) is dumbed down and the lesser of God of War (2005) in almost every aspect.. I don't get it. Games in general are much deeper than they were 10 years ago by a large margin. As a kid, I'd have killed to play a lot of the games this gen. Don't get me wrong, though. When comparing games of today, I understand how some games may not be up to par, but in general, I think games have gotten a lot better in general. It just sucks that it takes so much larger commitment from a studio to develop a game, with it costing more and taking longer to create, which has its own issues.
@@thewarriors3048 To be fair, the God Of War Reboot is a downgrade. They never should have done a reboot to begin with. They should have just made a new protagonist and IP for their game.
I fell absolutely in love with WD2 when I randomly encountered a couple breaking up, the woman up on a balcony, throwing clothes and things down to a crying man in an alley. It made me really think about the amount of work that went in to the world. Never once felt overly repetitive like the GTA games can feel.
Once in a while I boot up this game my recent save is from after you have to buy pants (very early in the game).
So last night I was just roaming the city following a random npc.
First I pet the dog and the dog some woman stated it is cute and the dog seemed to be hers. She and the dog walked away and I started to follow them. Around the corner another woman bumped in to a man who become very aggressive I tried to use emot to calm them down but I was too late the woman with the dog punched the guy and tool 9mm pistol and shot him. Someone called the police she run away, police came and she for some reason (remorse?) came back with the gun she dropped, police arrested her. I picked up the pistol. Dog lied down next to the dead guy’s corpse and some npc:s walking there were freaked out by the dead guy and run away.
Sure maybe it is not perfect but as for system that should generate random events and make the city more believable it is quite good.
Maybe I should start recording the footage and share it on YT. As I assume I can generate hours of content that will not repeat itself.
Ubisoft deserves far more credit than they get. It's filled with so many freaking talented individuals. Watch Dogs is a great, unique franchise that I will forever love.
I want to believe that angry voice is genuine. Like this is how you react to traffic in the mornings.
On a 1-10 scale of my anger, that was... a 4? 🤬
Cyberpunk NPC spreadsheet in a nutshell:
-permanent animation loop
-run
-duck and hold head
That's fucking it.
T pose
@@vivelafrance7 Ah yes, the NPC's defensive strategy when they're threatened
With the 2 years of patches it is better. Which is not me defending it rather being disappointed.
But even with the patches cyberpunk does not try to imitate a living city which WD2 did on OK level.
From time to time I start WD2 and just walk the streets, waiting for some interaction to happen. And some of them are surprising, some we can take a part it by using emots (like calm down to try to stop the fight).
7:45 Npc: *pushes you because you were being a jerk
AI in games: *straight up murders him
Och it was just a wee taser gun. He'll be fine.
Imagine if Cyberpunk was this advanced. RIP
Well if they would have such a big team(s) as Ubisoft has, then yes.. should the AI in CP2077 be much better ? Of course.. but as a whole, the game is a different style and genre of a game than WD2.. has WD2 non-linear main story? Have the quests in WD2 choices than have consenquences for the end of the game and for other quests? Has the game a deep RPG system? .. no.. in perfect world CP2077 would have the AI system of NPCs from WD2 and with all those things that I menioned already, but with around 400 - 500 people you can't do the same as a team that has 3 000 like Ubisoft had for WD2
Cyberpunk is a piece of shit
@@DaCashRap 🤡
@@wes8723 basically WD2 *needs* this complex of a system, because of how many different ways you can pass missions, or just because there isn't as many side content as CP2077, so you are going to be fucking around the open world way more :v
Strop damage controlling CP2077 - it has aspects that are beat by each of the last three major GTA entries (yes, that includes GTAIII, which has better cops/wanted system), just as one example of how mediocre that game is. Most other open worlds games get more, or WAY more, dev time - and it shows, even if we ignore the bugs.
14:08 This is one of the most impressive elements I've seen in a videogame to date.
NPC's in WD2 to are some impressive stuff. Lining up for a selfie, reacting to situations (calm and dangerous) and stuff.
I like that as this discussion of the civilian AI happens there is at least one car crash in every scene
The real Cyberpunk game
now that watch dogs legion lets u change your characters hair and tattoos it really is more cyberpunk than cyberpunk 2077 lmao
@@DIGITALGH05T all Watch Dogs games are cyberpunk, but the first two games are just closer technology-wise to the time we live in.
Yet another in depth yet concise and informative episode. You never fail to cast an insightful light on how games work thank you
Cannot wait for your cyberpunk episode
There's no AI in Cyberpunk
Can confirm. The entire Japanese game industry uses spreadsheets for everything from project management, game design, game pitches to actual game data. It's insane.
Spreadsheets... they are everywhere and very useful.
WD2 NPCs really made a mark on me. I never saw myself having fun by messing with the AI so much like I did in this game. So cool
Helluva video, mate
As a design I can confirm that I spend a whole lot of time in spreadsheets... I kind of love it.
Watch Dogs is the only game that I know of where texting guards Azure Lane r34 (At least in my head canon) is a viable strategy for distraction
Ah, I see you watched the Whitelight video as well.
@@ethanjones9955 a man of culture, I see
spreadsheets are badass
Imagine having WD2 NPC’s in cyberpunk
Please do the what's wrongs with cyberpunk AI
I think this has to be one of the most interesting episodes you've released yet! I love the breakdowns of these systems and this set of solutions, in particular, is just really clever. Thanks for another inspiring video!
I like your angry voice haha!
I am suddenly remembered that there was this game awhile ago, called "The Forest", and I remember that people were saying that the AI for the enemies there was pretty darn advanced. Would love to see your analysis on it.
I find it amazing that that spreadsheet is bigger and heavier than many entire games from the 90's
They should've carried on all the Ai from Watch Dogs 2 into Legion. I miss seeing the police getting in shootouts with gangsters.
Hi Tommy! I am one of your AIP students at kcl this year. Love your videos!
I have a suggestion for your next series of videos: *Star Citizen* and how they are planning to do AI.
I'd love to see the view of an expert AI professor/researcher on this matter!
I'm extremely excited for that game and what they will bring to the table in terms of believable AI as they are doing both backend economy simulation (called "quanta") and planning to do AI crew and NPC for the universe they are creating!
That is INSANE! I swear if Rockstar had made even a fraction of this people would've eaten it all up and throned it the best game ever smh
I think Ubisoft deserves more credit for what they do for gaming.
@@thewarriors3048 Exactly ikr
@@thewarriors3048 lately i left gta5, even gta5 online, for WD2. i feel like im actually living there, like fr
How about RDR2?
@@aizen_rhyme_schemes Rdr2’s npc is lifelike but not lively at all. You get two reactions or lines (agressive/passive) and a routine that some followed. Rdr2’s ai is extremely hard-coded into the game as a lot of it is predetermined while WD2’s is more dynamic and reactions varies without having to choose between aggressive or passive.
Remembering all this made me think how much was stripped out for 'anyone is a protagonist' gimmick in wd3. Such fun mechanics and systems, sucks they didn't have resources to reimplement them.
Legion AI simulation does what the first minute of the reveal of Watch Dogs 1 promised. Thanks to elaborate NPCs schedules and deep profiler you can literally stalk people and their associates. 'Anyone is a protagonist' feature just gave you a good reason to do that.
Legion's AI is 10x more advanced than Watch Dogs 2, which was already amazing.
@@thedopeson Can you give examples of how its more advanced?
@@AntonKudin sure. For one the NPC's are on a schedule, compared to the ones in WD2 who either be walking aimlessly, performing a scripted action (breaking into a car, smashing a car, etc.), or performing an infinitely looping animation (taking selfies or fishing indefinitely).
Not only are Legion's on a schedule, they are performing actions that are actually relevant to who they are and their personalities. For example, you will see NPC's with the "gambling addict" trait coming out of the horse betting shop where they go to gamble everyday, while their bio says they lost all their money investing in cryptos. You will see elderly people coming out of the retirement home, shopaholics leaving retail stores, and aspiring bare knuckle fighters on their way to fight in the fight club.
The other day I was playing with my character and he was hanging outside a travel agency. A woman walked out and I profiled her - she was a travel agent with a desert eagle who frequently posted on gun ownership forums. As she walked, she came to a livestreamer streaming to his fans. She stopped in her tracks and said "wow its you! I follow all your social media". I was blown away at the whole situation.
The world is so interconnected and cohesive its insane. Watch Dogs 2 was great but the NPC's were just randomized in an illogical fashion and placed in the world. In Legion, they are actually living in the world and performing actions relevant to who they are.
A masterpiece taken for granted. Cyberpunk will provide an interesting lesson in what NOT to do.
God I love this game. Could never finish it because I'm a dumbass, but it was so cool to walk around the city and see all the different people and how lifelike they were. Especially neat to see how the developers put it all together! If I could fit more than 5 games on my PS4 at one time maybe I could try to play it again lmao
So glad your channel exists, I have never been into multiplayer, my sole interest is in CPU AI in games of all types.
Great video. Wd2 is so impressive.
This episode was particularly interesting. Thanks for sharing.
everytime i watch one of these videos i feel like i get my brain blow again and again.
As a programmer I sometimes feel like a big part of my job is to create spreadsheets. Imteresting to ser what applications they can have in a game design context.
If anyone understands how a data matrix works and making it dynamic, the usage of one as a lookup for the AI seems rather appropriate. Calling something a "spreadsheet" is a misnomer since people not in the data arena have assumptions of low-level functionality. Go play with MS Power BI in MS Excel, tie in some GIS to and make it an interactive dashboard and tell me how it's "just a spreadsheet".
Therapist: "angry Tommy Thompson doesn't exist, he can't hurt you"
Angry Tommy Thompson: 6:57
Meanwhile, in Cyberpunk 2077, traffic AI still can't find its way around a car blocking its path. . .
WD2 is a msterpiece with an amazing living-breathing world. The only thing dislike about WD games is that there is no physics involved when it comes to NPC interaction. Notice how they always slide into position in order to play an animation. They can't react withiut first sliding into position. That's the thing I was hoping Ubisoft would change for WDL, but it was exactly the same.
Ooooh, you ment how spreadsheets run the game it self
Though you were going to make a video talking about the lore implimentations of spreadsheets
Thanks for the video! Made me curious to check WD2)
Damn, I need to up my excel skillz.
oh, the disease of ERP (Excel Resource Planning) also infects game development. don't know why I am surprised.
But still great video. thank you.
This reminds me of the Saints Row 2 npcs, but on steroids.
6:55 7:06 For his Angry voice 😁 You're welcome. 🤭
please do a video for cyberpunk AI
Love your angry voice
Dont tell me to screw myself for parking in the sideways or you get the kneecap punishment
Happy
ANGERY
Back to happy
*ANGERY*
I played legion... the npcs of london dont feel as alive as the ones from wd2. Although their interconnection between each other is impressive
Hello my name is Marcus Holloway. I'm a sponsored hacker from the San Francisco Bay area
WD1 has a better history but damm WD2 did make the world feel alive, i loved just fucking up with NPCs, and just walking around andshit.
Great video, and sadly no watch dogs legion sucked.
Damn you had me in the first half but Legion definitely doesn't suck. The NPC's are way more complex than WD2
15:18 - I hope you'd notice that Legion has a lot more going on under the hood. Because judging by its critical reception people either don't care about Legion AI systems or simply didn't get it. I mean, finally they've made a GTA clone where NPCs on the streets actually matter, because they have schedules, families, friends, colleagues, freely roam the open world and may remember stuff. But people treat the game like a second rate sequel that has nothing interesting in it besides flashy 'play as anyone' feature.
I can't wait to get Legion for my PS4 Pro soon!!
@@steviesteveo1 Good point, I think the deep profiler is still pretty innovative and I hope Ubi expands on the concept
Really random question but which part of Scotland you're from? Can't quite put my finger on that accent even tho I've spent some time over there.
Shedule?!
Lol..ANGRY!
T O M M Y *A N G R Y*
Please, destroy cyberpunk ia.
WD2 was a masterpiece, WDL was garbage.
So much effort was put into the AI that they forgot to make all the NPCs look different, so their faces all look like Sitara’s
Clearly from some of the comments on here, we have the kids (multiplayer fanatics....) in this week.
DJ
Someone CC this to CDPR. Cyberpunk 2077 AI is terrible!
i think it is all too easy to focus on the "game engine programming" aspect of game development when what really drives a game is the variables governing everything in the world. How quickly can the player turn, how tall is the player, how fast can the player run and so on. even "simple" 2D games have reams and reams of this. so its not surprising the devs would end up using a tool designed to manipulate numbers.
It's all numbers in the end.
Watchdogs 1 is like 100x better than Watchdogs 2. Bring back Pierce, UbiSoft!!
Nice Video. I‘ll get me Watchdogs at Sale. In my opinion it’s just another generic UBI Game not worth the full price based on what I have heard from the most gamers.
I don't know about the second, but I think the first is terribly not interesting... Get Watchdogs 2 for sale, instead. Currently $18 at Uplay according to this link : isthereanydeal.com/game/watchdogsiistandardedition/info/
They literally gave away the game for free during the ubisoft event that happened a couple of months ago. All u needed was an uplay account!
Trust me its actually very good gameplay wise.The people who said another generic game never even played it
Could that be a reason for the bad performance of the game on PC?
No.
I would hope the systems look better when actually playing the game, because the behaviors in this video footage bluntly look abysmal for portraying a reactive living world. People completely ignore massive traffic accidents, people ignore you tazing someone directly in front of them, people ignore a burning car, a woman ignores a body laying under her vehicle, a cyclist abandons her motorcycle in the middle of an intersection, ...
the ai in watch dogs 2 just yells all the time. They complain when you run or drive near them even if your pathing doesn't affect them at all.
Good stuff as always! Curious why you have Ads AND a Patreon?
Money, nothing wrong with that either.
pretty impressive, but too bad the game is not fun to play
It's a great game! I find it crazy when people say things about a lot of games today. Earlier someone said God of War (2018) is dumbed down and the lesser of God of War (2005) in almost every aspect.. I don't get it. Games in general are much deeper than they were 10 years ago by a large margin. As a kid, I'd have killed to play a lot of the games this gen.
Don't get me wrong, though. When comparing games of today, I understand how some games may not be up to par, but in general, I think games have gotten a lot better in general. It just sucks that it takes so much larger commitment from a studio to develop a game, with it costing more and taking longer to create, which has its own issues.
@@thewarriors3048 To be fair, the God Of War Reboot is a downgrade. They never should have done a reboot to begin with. They should have just made a new protagonist and IP for their game.