@0:29 - In case anyone is curious which I doubt - the red/green/yellow light tower are called "Andon Lights" It's a visual management too used in manufacturing and other processes. Tangential, I will admit.
Welcome Home, Podner! Brilliant video; understanding your approach to solving the problem is very instructive. I am sure that I speak for most of us that workholding is many times the most challenging, interesting and rewarding part of completing a project. Cheers, Charlie
As I am wont to do, as a non-machinist, I stopped the video after you said what the problem was and tried to figure out how I would hold the manifold. Of course, not know what you had at hand in regard to fixtures, I had to make some general guesses, but I came pretty close to your solution. I really appreciate your excellent videos. Thank you, Mr. Crispin.
What better way to show that you can never have enough angle plates, blocks and other paraphernalia to aid work holding. A very interesting discourse. Thank you Crispin. 👏👏👍😀
I enjoyed your explanation particularly on the use of the small cutter. Very useful. Incidentally, I also have a Deckel the same as yours. It would be nice to talk more on the mill. Is that possible?
I enjoyed that clever set up . Me being rough i would have welded a bit of flat bar on to the bottom then held it in the vice . cut off the tack welds and refinish .
I came for the latest hat toss, the rest is icing on the cake--LOL Excellent result as always, Mr. C never does sloppy work, accuracy is the Mr. C hallmark.
I had a thought while watching: on my travels in Germany I saw a demonstration of a vacuum mattress for spinal injury patients. It’s a bit like a beanbag chair, can be formed and then the vaccum is applied and the grains inside lock together really tightly for a completely solid surface, but moulded to requirements on the scene. There’s got to be some other clever people besides you at RR, would that not be a marvellous invention? A bit like a mag-chuk, but allowing any shape to be mounted in seconds? Nicely presented and lovely surface achieved - as always, thanks for sharing!
Another great video. You once again proved that often times the more challenging part was the fixturing! Great job as our usual! Btw I liked your new hat! Thanks again!
good show as always! if youre ever in the states again, i would like to suggest vermont... ...in spring or fall...the furthest you can get from mid-winter or mid-summer...lest ye favor dreadful weather.
I swear I saw a red Andon 🚨 on the J&S Crispin😁. Interesting setup, good result, and you also reminded me why I don't bother with coolant tanks🤣🤣, maybe that was what the Andon was for😊. Cheers, Jon
Hey great video, I really enjoyed “working with you“ , going through the thought process of setting the job up that was great! I’d originally assumed you’d be fly cutting it but your reasons given for cutter selection make perfect sense to me now you’ve explained them , also it looks like No 4 may be high and have caused potential clearance issues with fly cutting too. I’d never really thought of a smaller cutter giving a flatter surface if the spindle tram isn’t 100% iv noted it now tho 👍🏻 Good to see brothers toothbrush still on the go there too
When you can't line up the holes of a part with the holes on an angle plate (or any other mounting surface as far as that goes), you could just make a mounting plate drilled for holes that match the angle plate on one face and holes to match the part to be machined on the other face. This also works if you don't want to put more holes in the angle plate.
Reason number 2 is something a lot of hobby machinists don’t use. They will simply use a large fly cutter because it looks like it’s flat. The machined face is usually concave depending on how square the head is. Good instructional video. 👍
Not having first hand experience with this artifact first hand, I see it in my mind's eye as a saw tooth pattern from the side, and not concave. Why do you say concave?
@@ohsnapfit2096 if you rotate the head out of square and use a large fly cutter (say 4” diameter) the cutter will remove more material in the centre of the job than at the edges, looking from the right or left. Think of the cutter as a large cylindrical disk. Machines that can rotate the head are never perfectly square.
It all depends which direction you feed in for a given spindle error. Feeding in one direction you'll get a concave and for the same error feeding in the other direction will give a saw tooth profile. If the fly cutter is wider than the face you're machining then the saw tooth issue can't happen but you can still get the concave error.
Hi Mr Crispin - I run an old Elliot horizontal mill with a Bridgeport head mounted via a swivelling mount system for vertical use. It works but lacks rigidity. Whilst watching clemwyo (K&T Mill vertical Head Mount) he mentioned that you had some ideas on such arrangements. Any comment please? Regards, John Johnson
Nice to see you back, a very good set up, I love the Deckel FP1, if you had room, could you have used a fly cutter? if you machined all the way across, would have taken any spindle mis- alignment out, just a thought! cheers, Dave
Good work, if I may suggest, using a precision level would have made things considerable easier at least to get close to the final clocking. Also, manifold sealing faces normally need to have circular machining marks to avoid the creation of leakage channels. A Deckle FP1 is too small for this job and would have been better done on a Bridgeport + Wohlhaupter style boring head in facing mode. Happy New Year in a few hours 🙂
mr Crispin, yet another great video. i learnt something from this on as well. 14.20 ish seconds in. arent you supposed to hold the bolt and tighten the nut? not the othe way as you did. please correct me if im wrong.
I would have held it the same given what you have, once you had the first plane level with DTI, the second plane I would have used a spirit level then adjust your sign bar to get bubble in middle( thats assuming table is level & m/c) final check with DTI, that's how we do it in Coventry 👍🧐, always look forward to your videos thanks.
Looks awfully clean to be an exhaust manifold, what engine does it belong to? Dipped into your Bluegrass/Blues/Mountain Music love affair video, very informative, I enjoy the soundtrack from "Oh Brother Where Art Thou" without knowing anything about the music's source, you've corrected that, thank you.
@@MrCrispinEnterprises Also the jacks would need to have wide bases to provide stability while milling, and there's a possibility that the hold-downs might crush the manifold if you clamp down too hard. The advantage would be that the jacks would allow easy levelling of the work surface.
It's always a laugh to me when the setup takes longer than the machining. Sometimes hours of discussion/planning with my peers, gathering the fixturing I need (or making it myself), prepping a program, finding the tools/tool holders, carefully cleaning each surface to reduce the compounding error; all for a cut that takes about 90 seconds. Those engineer types really don't know what they're asking a lot of the time.
However you hold it - make sure to give it a good shake when you're done. I have it on good authority that wringing it out is NOT the correct thing to do. Thanks doc!
Expectations are high, and it'd be a shame to forget to like it when RUclips decides it's time to automatically go ahead and play the next suggested clip
@@MrCrispinEnterprises I think it set in 1997 when Hong Kong was given back to China (after the first opium war) ? Ps I do actually enjoy your engineering videos/skills .. 👍
@@MrCrispinEnterprisesthank you, here’s a sub for your second channel. And boy oh boy am I excited to hear your John Fahey cover. I should be surprised you’re a Fahey fan. Perhaps a Nick Drake cover in the future? 🤔🤍
I have interviewed a lot of engineer and asked them to explain what they have done. I never had anyone explain things as clearly as MrCrispin.
@0:29 - In case anyone is curious which I doubt - the red/green/yellow light tower are called "Andon Lights" It's a visual management too used in manufacturing and other processes. Tangential, I will admit.
Welcome Home, Podner!
Brilliant video; understanding your approach to solving the problem is very instructive. I am sure that I speak for most of us that workholding is many times the most challenging, interesting and rewarding part of completing a project.
Cheers,
Charlie
Very nicely done. What an enviable selection of angle plates you have at your disposal.
Best wishes, Dean.
As I am wont to do, as a non-machinist, I stopped the video after you said what the problem was and tried to figure out how I would hold the manifold. Of course, not know what you had at hand in regard to fixtures, I had to make some general guesses, but I came pretty close to your solution. I really appreciate your excellent videos. Thank you, Mr. Crispin.
Good thinking! The working out is the fun part!
Informative video as ever Mr Crispin Are you planning any more progress on the locomotive
Hi, yes indeed
What better way to show that you can never have enough angle plates, blocks and other paraphernalia to aid work holding. A very interesting discourse. Thank you Crispin. 👏👏👍😀
I enjoyed your explanation particularly on the use of the small cutter. Very useful. Incidentally, I also have a Deckel the same as yours. It would be nice to talk more on the mill. Is that possible?
I have the tilting table on my FP1. That makes setups like this one a lot easier. But it's also a bit less rigid.
I enjoyed that clever set up . Me being rough i would have welded a bit of flat bar on to the bottom then held it in the vice . cut off the tack welds and refinish .
That's why they won't allow you in the RR workshop, beside passing gas, and that was only a small portion of the fixturing plates he has on hand.
I came for the latest hat toss, the rest is icing on the cake--LOL Excellent result as always, Mr. C never does sloppy work, accuracy is the Mr. C hallmark.
Nice one Cris, just done a Singer Chamois exhaust manifold, 2 hours setting it up 10 mins machining!
I really appreciate you showing this. Work-holding is my biggest weakness. Thanks for sharing!
Good evening Mr Crispin 🤠 I’ve said before I’m no engineer but I’m fascinated with your fantastic machining videos 👍🏻
Thanks
Enjoyed watching both this one and your travel video too. Well done!!
Greetings from East Tennessee. I'm glad you enjoyed Appalachia!
Good information at the end regarding diameter of cutter and amplification of error. Thanks.
I had a thought while watching: on my travels in Germany I saw a demonstration of a vacuum mattress for spinal injury patients. It’s a bit like a beanbag chair, can be formed and then the vaccum is applied and the grains inside lock together really tightly for a completely solid surface, but moulded to requirements on the scene.
There’s got to be some other clever people besides you at RR, would that not be a marvellous invention? A bit like a mag-chuk, but allowing any shape to be mounted in seconds?
Nicely presented and lovely surface achieved - as always, thanks for sharing!
Nice idea!
Lots of very valuable tidbits in this one! Thanks!
Another great video. You once again proved that often times the more challenging part was the fixturing! Great job as our usual! Btw I liked your new hat! Thanks again!
good show as always!
if youre ever in the states again, i would like to suggest vermont...
...in spring or fall...the furthest you can get from mid-winter or mid-summer...lest ye favor dreadful weather.
Thanks
A fine demonstration showing careful setup achieves top results. 👍
Mr. C, that is a wonderfully nice casting and porting, best I can see! May I ask the origin?
Great setup,excellent explanations,almost a lesson of an gentlemans English at its best, did I missed something?
Great set up along with nice milling.... :)
Stainless steel manifold, a high end item indeed?.
Nicely done.
Thanks for sharing
I think it was for a VW rebuild of some sort
Really nicely done!
Another excellent masterclass. Every word a gem. Thank you.
I'm glad you used a jack. 🙏🏼💯
Excellent as always Mr Crispin.
Any update coming up on the loco build?
Yes as soon as I can
I swear I saw a red Andon 🚨 on the J&S Crispin😁. Interesting setup, good result, and you also reminded me why I don't bother with coolant tanks🤣🤣, maybe that was what the Andon was for😊. Cheers, Jon
Yes it's probably not very healthy
You posted about the Andon first. Nice!
Interesting setup Mr Crispin but worked well.👍👍
Hey great video, I really enjoyed “working with you“ , going through the thought process of setting the job up that was great!
I’d originally assumed you’d be fly cutting it but your reasons given for cutter selection make perfect sense to me now you’ve explained them , also it looks like No 4 may be high and have caused potential clearance issues with fly cutting too.
I’d never really thought of a smaller cutter giving a flatter surface if the spindle tram isn’t 100% iv noted it now tho 👍🏻
Good to see brothers toothbrush still on the go there too
Yes 4 and 3 were both high and required a bit of working around. Cheers
“It does look a little old fashioned… No not me - the work holding arrangements!” 😂
Would not a jack under the component greatly help in holding and positioning the component with stable and predictable movement?
Do you mean when I was at the surface table? Yes that would have been a good idea.
Interesting. Thanks! Good thinking to set it up on the surface plate first.
Another great work holding setup Mr Crispin. Thanks for sharing. What's the channel with your American adventure? Cheers Nobby
Have a look in the description. Cheers
Thanks for sharing.
When you can't line up the holes of a part with the holes on an angle plate (or any other mounting surface as far as that goes), you could just make a mounting plate drilled for holes that match the angle plate on one face and holes to match the part to be machined on the other face. This also works if you don't want to put more holes in the angle plate.
Yes good suggestion
Very informative. I assume this isn't your first complex work holding rodeo.
...
...
Yeehaw, etc.
Nice job, can you define OCD?
Reason number 2 is something a lot of hobby machinists don’t use. They will simply use a large fly cutter because it looks like it’s flat. The machined face is usually concave depending on how square the head is. Good instructional video. 👍
Not having first hand experience with this artifact first hand, I see it in my mind's eye as a saw tooth pattern from the side, and not concave. Why do you say concave?
@@ohsnapfit2096 if you rotate the head out of square and use a large fly cutter (say 4” diameter) the cutter will remove more material in the centre of the job than at the edges, looking from the right or left. Think of the cutter as a large cylindrical disk. Machines that can rotate the head are never perfectly square.
It all depends which direction you feed in for a given spindle error. Feeding in one direction you'll get a concave and for the same error feeding in the other direction will give a saw tooth profile.
If the fly cutter is wider than the face you're machining then the saw tooth issue can't happen but you can still get the concave error.
You could rotate the angle plate to reduce overhang
Yes I did consider that but unfortunately the component is slightly too deep and I couldn't ge the bolts in the slots. Good idea though
@@MrCrispinEnterprises I,ll try not to teach my granny to suck eggs in future 😀
Nice job, looking forward to some locomotive machine work soon? 🙏
Yes indeed
Hi Mr Crispin - I run an old Elliot horizontal mill with a Bridgeport head mounted via a swivelling mount system for vertical use. It works but lacks rigidity. Whilst watching clemwyo (K&T Mill vertical Head Mount) he mentioned that you had some ideas on such arrangements. Any comment please? Regards, John Johnson
Is he referring to my old Bridgeport M Head by any chance? I was going to mount a J head on it but I ended up swapping the machine.
may well be. Thanks
Howdy mr crispin
Nice to see you back, a very good set up, I love the Deckel FP1, if you had room, could you have used a fly cutter? if you machined all the way across, would have taken any spindle mis- alignment out, just a thought! cheers, Dave
Yes indeed although there were a couple of spots to work around where two of the inlets joined. Cheers.
Could a parallel have been used to extend the plane and amplify the indication?
Yes indeed
Thanks
Good work, if I may suggest, using a precision level would have made things considerable easier at least to get close to the final clocking. Also, manifold sealing faces normally need to have circular machining marks to avoid the creation of leakage channels. A Deckle FP1 is too small for this job and would have been better done on a Bridgeport + Wohlhaupter style boring head in facing mode. Happy New Year in a few hours 🙂
Thanks for your expertise
mr Crispin, yet another great video. i learnt something from this on as well. 14.20 ish seconds in. arent you supposed to hold the bolt and tighten the nut? not the othe way as you did. please correct me if im wrong.
If that was the case how would you be expected to tighten a bolt in a tapped hole?
You were here in America I didn’t see you lol
I am a hobbiest, I would ask why you didn't use a fly cutter ? Cheers
He explained, lower cutting forces, flatter surface
I think it would chatter plus those two inlets that join from above the surface would make it a bit tricky.
Thirty seconds in you say "...or, should you be already bored with this video..." Hahahaha! That's great!
You need to tell us what engine that attaches to!
I didn't even ask!
Vag 1.8t 20v.
Transverse 1.8T 20V.
I would have held it the same given what you have, once you had the first plane level with DTI, the second plane I would have used a spirit level then adjust your sign bar to get bubble in middle( thats assuming table is level & m/c) final check with DTI, that's how we do it in Coventry 👍🧐, always look forward to your videos thanks.
Good thinking!
Any chance you’re going to resume the steam engine?
Yes definitely. As soon as I can.
Looks awfully clean to be an exhaust manifold, what engine does it belong to? Dipped into your Bluegrass/Blues/Mountain Music love affair video, very informative, I enjoy the soundtrack from "Oh Brother Where Art Thou" without knowing anything about the music's source, you've corrected that, thank you.
I'm not exactly sure but the guy does very high quality restorations on 1980's VW's. Cheers
It looks like that flow was not considered when they made that manifold.
Nearly spat my fizzy water all over the screen and keyboard. "Been to America!"
It seems like a tripod of good stout jacks and hold-downs would do the job.
Yes quite possible although a bit frustrating if everything starts floating around whilst you do the clamps up
@@MrCrispinEnterprises Also the jacks would need to have wide bases to provide stability while milling, and there's a possibility that the hold-downs might crush the manifold if you clamp down too hard. The advantage would be that the jacks would allow easy levelling of the work surface.
It's always a laugh to me when the setup takes longer than the machining. Sometimes hours of discussion/planning with my peers, gathering the fixturing I need (or making it myself), prepping a program, finding the tools/tool holders, carefully cleaning each surface to reduce the compounding error; all for a cut that takes about 90 seconds. Those engineer types really don't know what they're asking a lot of the time.
I would have built a wooden frame around it all
Mr Crispin, You should have used a fly cutter you had room to do that mate
I think it would have chattered.
use the emery trick it would be fine@@MrCrispinEnterprises
@@davidcook380 Curious - The Emory Trick? What is that?
not old fashioned work-holding, old school cool work holding
Howdy Cowboy.
Howdy
However you hold it - make sure to give it a good shake when you're done. I have it on good authority that wringing it out is NOT the correct thing to do. Thanks doc!
Tooling or fixturing..
Fixturing is one category of tooling, for example another category would be tool holding.
Howdy Pardner. Ya know, here in Texas we got a thing called a "bulls eye" level. You coulda got close much faster with that and that's no bull.
Good idea
WHY YOU NOT DOING ANY VIDEOS ANYMORE JUST ONE EVERY YEAR IS NO GOOD ??????
YOU HAVE NOT BEEN CHECKING MY CONTENT FEED REGULARLY ENOUGH COMMENTING WITHOUT CHECKING FIRST IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
Fixturing...another artform not fully appreciated...well done Mr. C
Oh man you were ? I would have bought you a Tennessee whiskey or at least sent you one.
Mr Crispin's American cousin...?
I do wonder how people "like" something they have never had time to watch?
Expectations are high, and it'd be a shame to forget to like it when RUclips decides it's time to automatically go ahead and play the next suggested clip
I'm happy either way!
@@rjordans I enjoy the videos as much as the rest but it's a tad childish behaviour me thinks.
@@MrCrispinEnterprises lol
@@MrCrispinEnterprises Speaking of America, search "Truckstop Honeymoon" they played the Brickyard in Carlisle this week.
Someone needs a boring an facing head
No wonder England lost the war 😂
The sun never sets on the British Empire
@@MrCrispinEnterprises
I think it set in 1997 when Hong Kong was given back to China (after the first opium war) ?
Ps I do actually enjoy your engineering videos/skills .. 👍
Big Hat, what! No Cattle.
Pity you don't have the angle table for the FP1
Hi MrCrispin, please add the link you mentioned to the video description. I’d love to watch your travels on this side of the globe. 🤍
Doh! Thanks for pointing that out. Now done.
@@MrCrispinEnterprisesthank you, here’s a sub for your second channel. And boy oh boy am I excited to hear your John Fahey cover. I should be surprised you’re a Fahey fan. Perhaps a Nick Drake cover in the future? 🤔🤍