Had someone get really really pissy at me after I redesigned a character I bought for them, made sure they are recognizable. Well appearantly not recognizable enough and they even asked me if I wanted to just give the character back instead? Excuse me, I paid for this character?
@@RandomNoobbbbb I had it for a year at that point and only made some changes so it's easier for me to draw Well now I gave that character to my boyfriend and made a complete new one
What also kinda annoys me is when someone says “if you loose connection, send the character back to me”, like I get it if the character was originally free and currently doesn’t have any extra art/value, but if it was an oc that I traded/payed for then why should I send them back to the original owner for free if I could instead put the oc up for offers and trade with someone else to get something for the time/money I put into the character? But dude all of this stuff really makes you sound chronically online it’s so funny 😭
I have personally asked a few people to let me know if they lose connection but here's the thing, if they no longer want the character. Imma pay to get it back. Not like ask for it back for free lmao. I think it's ridiculous to expect you can get an oc back for free whenever like the new owner put their own art, commissioned art into it. YAAA I think it's fine to ask people to contact you first before resale but if you intend on getting the character back. You should be prepared to PAY for it.
in my tos i say they can give it back to me if theyre struggling to get rid of it and they want to give it back. i think that sounds as reasonable and non pushy as i could possibly make it lol, i dont want to give refunds for characters that have been owned for years but if its between me and some random shelter i want them to know sending it back to me is an option. i like redesigning my crusty old adopts
Yeah, if I really like a design I did, I'll put in my TOS "please reach out to me so I can buy the design back if you lose connection" I'm willing to pay them whatever the new value is
I never flat out say “send the design back” in my tos but I do state to at least reach out to me if someone plans on selling as I do still like some of my designs but I’d never take the character for free that’s pushing it far
i wouldnt ever say this but i think i get it. some people get frustrated with no one buying the chars they have because they want to clean out so bad and they delete the design completely . its really annoying, so as silly as it sounds i kind of get saying hey im not gonna leave it up to u to delete my design when you want, just give it to me if u rlly dont want it ill figure out what to do
People who getting so mad about redesigns are so confusing to me. I tried having a discussion with a very popular Toyhouse designer about redesigns and they were strongly against almost any redesigns, and were very strong about how changing a characters gender or body for example makes you a “morally evil” person and continued to bash me and imply I was racist and homohobic because I said people should be able to change anything about a character if it’s theirs, such as a characters sexuality. I genuinely don’t understand why people get so mad about things like this 🤷♀️
there are people out there who consider changing things like gender or body type or even something like sexuality to be redesigns?!? good god i do that all the time lol. i’m buying the base design not whatever lore the previous person had for them. i know lots of people who even prefer you change previous bio info
i make a lot of freebies and adopts to give out in discords and i absolutely LOVE seeing the redesigns that people come up with when they redesign my guys. it always made no sense to me (unless it was like a personal character that you were forced to sell or other circumstances like that) why people were so hurt/offended over redesigning adopts/freebies
I rly don't get it because if they're selling the character, they shouldn't get so attached to that character's current iteration since it's not going to be theirs. If they don't want it to change, they shouldn't sell the character🤷
dude i LOVE when people redesign my character designs i've sold tbh, it's so neat to me to see how the design ends up changing, even if the person ends up never drawing them again afterwards. this video is so weirdly well timed for me, i've not really drawn anything in like over a year now and i'm thinking about doing it again via selling character designs like i used to do years ago. cooking up a TOS seemed daunting at first, but then this vid showed up and it's actually... kinda easy for me to conceptualize now lmfaooo
me too!! the only time i didnt like it is when they redesigned it completely and removed all the recognizable features and then never used the character 😭 but i still didnt say anything abt it because even back then i recognized that i had sold it and no longer had any right to control what happened to it
What always annoys me is vague tos terms, specifically the "don't associate my designs with homophobia, racism, discrimination, etc" because I'm always unsure if that means to not make hate art with the character or simply don't associate them with those topics. I'm nonbinary and pansexual so a few of my characters deal with homophobia or transphobia, for my purposes I wish they were more exact without needing to ask for clarification. Also annoying when the tos constantly changes especially if its clear the artist is simply making exceptions for their friends, one of the artists I bought a design from updated their tos like 5 times in a short amount of time clearly because their friend wanted to do something against it. Your tos is your boundaries for your designs, don't let people break your boundaries because they're your friends especially if that boundary being broken was a blacklistable offense before. They won't explode or anything if they aren't allowed to draw certain kinds of art of that one character
i think you can always safely assume that people mean "Dont put me and my creations as a pro-whatever--bad-thing" rather than "no you cant give them a tragic backstory"
@@NeverEverTMyou would think but I've been in the character trading scene for about 6 years and some people are simply like that, there are people who have and will make a fuss if you give an oc a tragic backstory. Like I do generally assume they don't mean that but I've seen people genuinely get upset at the darker backstories people give their designs even if it is clear they don't condone it. Some people are so scared of being called a bad person or abuse condoners that they get SUPER protective of what they put out. Which is why vague wording can be annoying, It would be easier in my opinion to simply put "Do not use my designs to promote hate speech" or "please don't make my designs do bad things and condone their actions" over "do not associate my designs with these things". I just find it nice when a tos is specific and clear, that way there is no grey area and I can know if the person is someone I'd rather not do business with for that tos
@silverfang405 see I like what you're saying here because I think it boils down to the fact that everyone's morals are different and it doesn't make sense to take someone's property back because their morals don't align with yours. Are there some things that might be universally/arguably bad? Yeah, but some things have more of a gray area or be super controversial(inner lgbtq discourse, pro/anti ship, etc) That's why i wouldn't want someone to be able to take a design away on the condition that I was "racist, homophobic, etc." Bc I'm not those first two but wtf does etc entail?? I don't know what your opinions are. If you're not going to make a full list then it's weird to say that. It can be misused even with the best intentions
I prefer one that said in the tos that they as a designer didn’t condone the actions taken by anyone that ended up with their oc. It’s an understanding that you can’t control what others do and don’t do with characters and you probably shouldn’t try. Doing so often makes people wanna do said things purely out of spite, especially the younger crowds
I am of the belief that once you give something away you no longer have any rights to control what happens to it and that extends to characters. I make it very clear in my "TOS" that there is nothing I can do to take a character away from you and you are free to do with it as you please. The most I ask for it for the character to not be used for spreading bigotry but even then the most I'll do is resign to not sell directly to the person again. I don't understand why people sell characters or designs if they can't fully let them go...At this rate it gets to the point where it feels like you're just renting a design that can suddenly be pulled away from you at any time. it's baffling to me that it's been normalized to the extent it has.
Watching this while I work on a comm. I agree with your points!! I don't want to do business with any artist who: does revocations, does not permit or polices redesigns, polices how you use their designs (ex: "youre not drawing them enough" "i disagree with the lore you gave them", and who wants to control if your character and their galleries are visible. Once it's out of your hands, it is not yours to dictate usage of. I stopped using toyhouse a long time ago because of concerns I have with the site's longevity due to only having one unreliable mod, and made all of my characters private as a result (I downloaded their files to my pc). Knowing that there are people out there who would take issue with my characters being hidden is so weird
I've seen a few people say that they would only revoke if the artist went silent and didn't have other socials, left the character in a trade/sale folder for a long time, or deleted/hid the character. (not singling anyone out who said this though, it's an opinion I've seen elsewhere before!) My argument against this is the following. -Its entirely possible they lost internet access -Social media is not for everyone, and if they left it doesn't mean their characters are up for grabs. They could still be using them offline. -If they left them in a trade or sale folder, it's still their character to decide to trade or sell, even if they're inactive for a long time. -In the worst case scenario, a person can pass away. I remember part of the controversy about DA making your art opted into their ai by default was that deceased artists couldn't opt out. In much the same way, a deceased person can't tell you not to reupload their character because you assumed they weren't using them. Ultimately, once a character leaves your hands, the owner can use them... or not! and that is their choice as it is now one of their belongings. If you want to control aspects of a design like these that feel out of your reach, you probably shouldnt be trading or selling them. There's no shame in keeping a lot of designs you're attached to!
As someone who makes adopts and customs, I LOVE seeing people redesign the designs I give them; to me, it means they're personalizing the OC into something they connect with. IMO, it's a huge compliment to have someone turn my design into something more personal to them, and I don't know why some designers are so restrictive about it. If you don't want people to have creative freedom with the designs _they own_ due to the transaction, why give designs away at all? Revoking designs is something that REALLY brings up a red flag, especially if the design was paid for by the other party. It seems VERY controlling to me. The only reasons I would revoke a design is if I was charged back for one that was paid for (if you want to take the money you paid away from me, I'm taking back the design that was supposed to be paid for), or if the design is being used for AI training or NFTs.
(Using royal "you" here) Like, the moment money becomes involved, you have to start looking at things from a professional stance. Just like if I'm on the clock at my retail job, and there's a customer I don't like, I have to do the bare minimum of my job servicing them politely, the same logic applies here. Your job is this scenario is selling designs. Once you sell a design, it's not yours anymore (unless your ToS specifically states joint ownership kind of things, which imo would deter a LOT of people and get messy fast). You don't get to just take the design back just because you don't like someone, and even in the sparse instances where someone is using the character in actual extremely scummy ways, the best thing you can do from there is cut your ties completely and block the person. "But I don't want people doing this, that, or the other thing (to the design)," sorry but once you sell a design, it's not yours anymore! That's the point! If you're not ready for that reality, I don't think you're ready to be providing designs as a service, period.
Yes and no. I had to learn a lot about intellectual property, trademark, and patent. Unfortunately this is entirely legal where I live. Art always belongs to the artist, designs are the same thing. But I think this is unethical. So even though I /could/ I deliberately put in my tos that you 100% own it. But If you buy a character from an artist with this in your tos that's kind of on you.
If I own a design by another artist, I'll absolutely follow their TOS, but when it comes to my designs... as long as I get credit for the original design, I don't care what happens to it lmfao. Resell something I gave you for free for like $100, IDGAF. I've actually had someone redesign a design to be absolutely unrecognizable and all it made me was confused over why they bought the original design -- but I still got paid, so again, don't really care :P I think a wild aspect to a lot of modern TOS is restrictions on how you can draw the character? I 110% get not wanting something to be involved w/ bigoted BS etc or whatever but its not like those people will obey a TOS anyways & plus, like you said, I think restricting the way someone uses a design they own is "something you shouldn't say about someone else's property". Anyways, lovely video and great topic pick!
i'm not joking when i say i don't have a TOS, you just own the character anf thier lore now, have fun with them edit: i make lore with my adopts to give them more value
You bring up a lot of good points. I am personally far too attached to my character whcih is why they are all forever homed. However I had a situation where I made a design meant to be a dopt, and then told another friend who was also selling adopts that I liked it so much that I wanted to keep it. And they told me it was stupid for doing that. I kept them anyway. best decission ive made.
I once had a person in their tos not allow me to trade their designs for free or like a raffle, they later ended up stealing my own designs but that another story…
oooh i love these takes!! especially the redesign portion. every character i've bought i've ended up usually altering the color palette to have more saturation / contrast and adding outfits. if that is against an artist's t.o.s i just don't buy it, though. "character flippers" also pmo. i don't view it as wrong if time passed, because in that case, maybe people would be willing to pay more for x artist's design due to more people discovering the artist / wanting those artist's designs. However, i have also seen it where people (especially for pop designers) would buy a design and resell it for higher within a week DX however i sorta view the right mode of action if this does happen is to just block them from buying / refuse to sell to them. yeah they maybe gained one or two flips, but eh. oh well.
i love these videos when you talk about character trading and selling. I'm not at all familiar with the customs so learning about it through these is really helpful !! 💙
ah yes, toyhouse users being weird /lh, not a surprise tbh, first it was the kinsonas that are just stolen characters, now this?? people can't seem to compreehend the fact that once you give away a chat/design, it's no longer theirs :/, it's annoying, expecially when they act entitled about it, and don't even get me started on those TOS', yikes
As far as revoking goes, Walmart can't come take a blender back if I use it for crafts instead of food. To demand a different precedent sets a standard I do not want to live by. And I have sold designs and commissions Artists tend to have a serious misunderstanding of one thing: You lose FULL ownership of anything you share with the world. Anyone can draw it and do ANYTHING they want to. Owning it or not. If you want something kept personal, you gotta KEEP it personal.
Watching this video through made me remember its been a good moment since I've updated my Tos on my Toyhouse, so I gave it a good update that it... *desperately* needed as I realized there were details I didn't add and stuff I no longer agreed with xD At the end when you said, "I think you should repeatedly ask yourself as you handwrite your terms of service, is this something I should be saying about someone else's property?" Really made me think about my old Tos There was nothing crazy in it mind you, I'm not a strict person about the characters I make, but it made me fully adjust what I had put down for "Character Recognizability" I had it as a plain "Redesign just make them recognizable" which had no description of *how* recognizable, cause thats what most of my buds had for theirs lol As I updated everything else, I had fully changed that one completely, as I asked "Would I actually care if somebody made them look wildly different?" Literally tested it with a pastel character by making a copy and making them a neon demon with sharp claws and spikes The answer? Naw. I really don't. I think it would actually be hilarious if someone neon'd the crud outta one of my softer designs😂 Awesome video! Really helpful when thinking about the bigger picture. You have an awesome day/night brah🎉
This is a really interesting video! I was in the adoptable community a long time ago, and my TOS were pretty simple back them I think. However, I did remember some drama over abusive TOS like 'if you want to get rid of the character then give it back to me instead of reselling it' (which meant that you lost the character AND your money) or 'if I do not like what you do with the character or you do not use it then I will revoke it', which I thought was quite wild. I think I only revoked a character once in my life. Back when G+ was still alive (gosh, I feel old) I was in a community where we made ocs, and one day I made free redesigns, with the only rule being that, as they were free, they could not be resold. I made four or five and I was really proud of them! And my heart broke when less than a week later, one of the people I made a redesign for, decided to sell it, with no art added or anything, they just tried to sold the redesign that I gave them for free. I ended up informing them that I was going to revoke the redesign, that they could keep the old design, as stated by the one and only rule that was written on my post, it could not be resold. Sadly I did not do anything with that character. Maybe I should use them someday, maybe I should just look at the design sometimes and that is all. I found it difficult to use them or gift them bearing in mind that they still had the same theme and some of the characteristics of the original design. I have to say though, I did not know that some people count as 'redesign' to add clothes to a character!! Or accessories!! It had never crossed my mind something, I always took redesigns as changing markings, or colours until they do not look like the original at all (which often naturally happens as you draw one character, I have to admit). I suppose I can relate to seeing one design I'm very proud of being changed so much as being something disheartening, but at least they get loved that way, which I think is what counts! Great video btw! I really like the points you made and your research, and your drawing as well!! I love how colourful it is :33 hope you have a great day!
YESSS THHIS VID IS SO GOOD IM ONLY STARTING TO WATCH THIS LOL BUT I LOVE UR VIDS UR ART IS SOO ENTERTAIING AND UR VOICE IS SO NICE I LOVE UR TALKING VIDS FR ^_^
Yeah, my "TOS" is just 'the instant I send that character to you, it's no longer mine. It's yours to do whatever you want with it. Go nuts, I don't care what you do with it, it's yours now, not mine.' But that's just me. I personally don't care what people do with the characters I sold. Once I send it off, it's outta my hands. Idgaf. Lmao
Something I think is an important distinction that you didn't make: I believe there's a difference between gift art and traded art. A person makes gift art because they like the character or the person who owns said character; they do it of their own free will, for their own enjoyment. An art trade on the other hand, involves both parties agreeing to put in roughly equal amounts of effort, and choosing which of their own characters the other party will draw. Time is money, and if commissioned art and personal art adds value, then traded art should add value too, because you paid for that art by spending time making art for your trade partner yourself. Gift art is different because it was received for free, traded art is not free.
Had someone comment on a design that I owned, that they made, saying I had to ask their permission to add extras features onto a character... I had given the character wings btw, in the exact same colours and with no changes to the base design. So I said I'm not doing that, obvs, and they then proceeded to fight me and argue with me that it's against their tos. What where these tos? A work in progress apparently cause they hadn't even been written yet... but somehow I was supposed to know and follow them anyways, yeah I don't think so. Honestly it boils my piss when people try and add bullshit rules like revokes, redesigns and tradebacks onto designs *I MADE*, like f off no?? Thats not only against my tos, cause I hate those rules and I think it's stupid, but its also just so possessive? If you can't handle the mere idea that someone just might draw a character the way they want or, heaven forbid, add a minor detail then you shouldn't be selling/trading, end of. And if you think that's stupid then I want you to take a second, breathe, and think about it this way: Imagine you buy a house (crazy in this economy ik but stick with me) and you buy it in its entirety, paid full price blah blah blah, then one day, out of nowhere, the old owners come banging on your door and throwing a fit cause they saw through your window that you changed the wallpaper they put up. It's weird right? And yes I'm aware houses and pixels on a screen aren't the same but I like to think we can all use our thinking caps and think about hyperboles and subjectivity and etc etc lol /lh
crying because just yesterday some of my friends gave you their tos, idk if you know but the sashley/ knite/ joycawn design market is crazy for reselling for obnoxious amounts of money and tradeback etc some people even resold ocs they got from trades and gifts rip
i had someone who said theyd be "watching me" to make sure i use the character i bought off them that they literally never used, i blocked them. also, i had a case like 5 years ago where i got this really cool oc for free, and the original designer of the character (also 13 at the time) said they taking it away from me. last year i reached back out to them and we cleared things up, i can confirm ownership again
I've been actively avoiding buying from people that have T.O.S I don't agree with. Like, what do you mean I can't change the design at all or I'll be blacklisted? If I keep the design for.. let's say a decade (or longer) and decide the character had a lore event and now they're wearing an eyepatch because they have a scar or lost an eye, then that's my decision. I only buy characters that inspire a story and that I attach myself to with my whole heart. I once had some people bully and harass me for multiple years. Because they think sending me money, after digging my paypal email back up after months, means that I just no longer own the character. I never agreed to give it back or went against their tos or anything, they just decided they didn't like me. I told them no but they sent their fans to bully and harass me. About a year or two after that whole drama, a friend helped me make a character design inspired by the one they stole from me (not even remotely similar, just inspired by my own idea of it). Because I've already created lore around them, as well as family, friends, a partner. But, of course, they found out because they were stalking my every move. It almost made me quit art outright and the harassment ended up putting me in the hospital - which they laughed at!!! What's even worse is that I used to look up to these people once. I was one of their fans at a point! To me, that's gross. For the designs I've made and sold / given away, I know that it means I'm giving everything up apart from the credit for the original design and art I've made. If I'm in any way attached to it, I don't sell it / give it away. I once had to redesign an entire mystery custom, with the commissioner's permission, because I got too attached. They actually got an even better design out of it! You'd think in a hobby / profession all about creativity and creative expression, people would be more understanding... but no, everything has to be a drama, everything has to be a fight, someone has to be a victim... it's exhausting.
Great video, I agree with your points. The one that always confused me the most was revoking a character because it was redesigned too heavily. I could never tell if they want to revoke the original design, or the character itself. Cause if a character is redesigned to the point of warranting a revoke, then the character itself is actually immune to BEING revoked because it's, in the eyes of the designer, a different character. So like, what would revoking an old design do? Its like revoking a design for not being used enough, but worse because there's actual emotional attachment to the original. I dont think a designer should ever be able to revoke a character under any circumstance. Even if the owner of the character is foul. At most they should be able say "I don't want to be associated with this design anymore. Make a new toy house page of the character where I am no longer credited." or something like that. Which could still be a pretty big blow if the character has 3k drawings, but i would support the designer in that case, where i wouldn't support them if they simply said "mine now" Speaking of which, I'm impressed at your character with 3 thousand drawings. My favorite oc is five years old, and i was proud to reach 200. I have a long way to go! I loove ocs with massive amounts of art, i always enjoy looking at them. I do have one note about your video, though. I am someone who watched this while drawing. But you didn't read the topic cards out loud, so when you were discussing people's opinions on revoking designs, I had no context as to what you were talking about or what everyone voted 'no' to, because I wasn't looking at the screen to see it. So it would be nice if you could restructure the beginning sentences in future videos to include the topic specifically. Such as "Revoking designs is one of the most controversial things in the character design scene as of recently", or reading out the topic title in the beginning, just to sort of keep the listeners on the same page as the watchers. It felt particularly jarring considering you specifically mentioned people who don't watch the screen during your sponsorship read. but all in all, great video. I enjoyed your points, and it was well structured. I think you did a good job keeping it within topic without getting dull.
Despite being an artist, I'm not really involved in the "art community" so I wasn't really sure what this video was gonna be but...yeah I agree with every point.
And tos are why I just make my own characters. One person I used to buy from changed they’re tos to be a LOT more strict and now she can’t sell her characters anymore
20:11 - 20:43 honestly kind of why i quit using toyhouse (and kind of oc trading in general), it just felt like it was all a transaction with no actual life behind it and not rlly a hobby anymore ;w;
Reminds me of that one time where I received a character in a trade. The designer (Not the person who gave it to me), had the strictest character T.O.S that I'VE EVER SEEN. She won't even let you make up your own story for the character you get for her without permission. WHY, WHY, WHY?? BECAUSE WHY NOT APPARENTLY. She got pissy with me when I redesigned the character and made the story different. We than had a argument in the character's comment section. I ended up blocking them and deleting the original character. Rude, yes. Yes it was rude and petty of me to delete the original character, but I kept the redesign. It's the only time I've ever deleted a character that wasn't a dollmaker. Mind you, the original character was given away so many times because of the creator. Goes to show that trying to make too strict a T.O.S will cause people to disobey it.
I think its crazy that people think they can control what someone does with a character they have handed over to someone else, free or not. I hope these people never make a popular series with their ocs because they won't be able to handle what fandoms do to the characters. On the other hand, simply don't buy/do business with someone who has policies you find ridiculous. Just make a design inspired (and i do mean INSPIRED, NOT STOLEN!) by that design and do what you like with it, if you really must have it.
My only tos rule is really let me know if you wanna make money of a design I made because I wanna buy some march! As long as you’re making new art, if I’m making art that you wanna sell I’ll just add on a little extra fee. Like 20$ onto the original cost. The only oath rule I have about oc swaps or buys is that the character isn’t upsold after getting it from me. But even then I’m not made if you forget something like that.
If I read someone's TOS and they act like they have any baring on the character I paid for the rights for I just dont buy it. That's to their detriment as they will get less sales and interaction, The only one that seems to make sense to me is compensation if the person plans to use the character for commercial use. I had someone tell me after I made a ref sheet of a character I bought from them to "Stop changing it, it doesnt look like my character anymore" bear in mind this person had no TOS. But I was like "'Your' Character"? It may be disrespectful to go against the wishes of an artist but its also disrespectful and takes away the whole point of owning a character, To enjoy it and just like people, characters change over time. That's whats so great about things like OC's They're living art, they grow and evolve. I would also like to point out that "Dropshipping" is exactly how every single business works. Walmart buys from china, Target buys from china, Small businesses buy in bulk from other places for cheaper to resell. Companies like the virtual pet websites will pay less for bulk designs to go on their sites. A character should be priced at whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Take into consideration a small artist that blows up, you bought a design for $5 that design someone is now willing to pay $50 but you only drew it once or twice (and feel your art isnt worth pricing) or not at all.Why would anyone take the $5 over the $50? It doesn't hurt anyone and both parties agree to the price, Personally as a big(ish) Character designer on IG it happens a lot to me but why should it bother me? It makes my value also as an artist extrinsically more and in the long run shows me a fair price people are willing to pay.
My TOS is the bare minimum to legally protect me. I avoid super strict TOS havers since I had an owner harass me to give them a chara I bought back because "I don't use it" i refused to believe I did.... I just didn't post it because I mainly used her for RP.
i once bought an oc from someone [it wasn't their design, it was by someone else], and that someone else came to me telling me that i have to return the design to them, even tho, it was mine legally, then they blocked me after i return it
The whole "trade back" rule makes me judge people. The only time I have done a trade back was when my sister traded me an oc in return. However if they are upset that I want to sell the design i got for 100$ instead of trading it back just. Urks me. Unless they are paying me the 100$ back then I ain't giving it back!
As someone working on a large scale world building project that often buys adopts and customs to ease the burden of having nearly 1000 planned species (not even including characters), it is always a wonderful feeling to find an artist that actually lets me get the full rights to a character. It's great when the only thing I have to worry about is what name to put in the credits. Also I avoid people that say they'll revoke a design like the plague.
One things I think would help the anxiety that causes Artist to feel a need to ALWAYS have control over how their designs are used, is if we worked on the fandoms habit of equating artist interacting with possibly harmful people in ANY way as proof that the artist themselevs is horrible and evil and awful. Like if an artist sells a design to someone, and then laters on said person is outed for doing something bad- The fandom has a habit of then using that as proof that the ARTIST did something wrong too. God forbid an artist ever take a custome for someone only to find out the design *completely unknown to them* is being used in something inappropriate or abhorrent. So many people in the fandom, and online as a whole, equates any and all interaction with "Bad" people as a crime in itself. And when thats what you're used to seeing is very easy for artist to become anxious and not feel safe with the idea that they're designs *could* end up somewhere like that and not have the ability to take it back. Its still not a good mindset. But it makes sense why people whould develop it when you look at the community as a whole. On the topic of redesigns, I think its genuinely unrealistic to expect someone to keep a character design 100% stagnant FOREVER. Characters change. They develop. They grow. Expecting people to just...not do any of that.. is unrealistic. Not even baring in mind the likelyhood that years could pass and the buyer just..forgets? Redesigns the oc because they forgot that one rule saying they couldn't.
Also, on the "give it back to me if you don't want it anymore!" Rule.. I instead have a "Let me know and give me a heads up if you decide to resell it" for SOME of my designs. Meaning you can resell/trade away the design. Just let me know so if I can afford whatever you're wanting for them- I have a chance to grab that. If not, I can just wave past and whoever can afford your offer can get the character. No issues. I think that kind of rule works alot better then "Give it back to me for free even if you spent money on it to begin with." Also yeah, I have the rule to not resell for more then you paid unless you've added art. I don't really mind if it's base art/commissioned or hand made. As long as there is *something* put into the oc.
I used to do a lot of adopts both buying and selling on amino with amino coins as a teen, as fun as I found it to be it I thought a lot of it was weird, like I'd see something I liked and wanted to use but see paragraphs of rules on how I can use and dipict the character. A lot of the "I can revoke MY character" stuff is partially why I stepped out of there. I almost do want to go check out toyhouse sometimes but end up screwing around with friends on picrew to make things instead. Not the same fun but not the same weird uncomfortable restrictions
I will say that person you responded to where you compared reselling to dropshopping, I think you might have misunderstood what they were saying or one of us missed their point at least. "What people will pay for" doesn't directly mean they're trying to exploit others, though I can see how it is read that way, that doesn't seem to be their intention.
one thing i will say about design revoking, is i added it to my TOS specifically after i dealt with a situation w/coming to terms with having been abused by my groomers. i had made so much art and so many characters for them during the time when i was a kid/teenager and when i became and adult and realized just how much of my abuse was basically immortalized and attached to those really gross couple of people, i was mortified and basically Not So Gently demanded that all my work be removed from their pages entirely. it brought me a lot of peace of mind and since then i've been a lot stricter about who i sell to and pretty much have low patience for people with values similar to the ones my groomers had (like people who speak inappropriately to/about minors (even fictional), drawing really deplorable nsfw, etc). i try to do ""background checks"" before i sell an adoptable as best as i can, but i do have it in my TOS that i may request character/design termination if it's found out that my work is being attached to disgusting people / actions / art. my groomers used art and OCs to prey on me, and the thought of someone potentially doing that with something *i* made just really bothers me. maybe it's not that deep, idk. i also go about it differently though, because i don't ask for a design to be returned to me, i ask for complete deletion. i've thankfully never had to actually have a discussion with someone about deletion (again i try to just be careful who i sell to in the first place) but in my mind, the character trading scene is pretty big right now in the art community and if someone doesnt like my TOS... for lack of a more polite way to put it, they can kick rocks and go find a different artist to buy from. my work is just so personal to me that imo if someone didn't read my TOS and was surprised by any enforcement actions i took, that's on them. very long winded and a bit personal but i just wanted to share my perspective on character revoking
2 b clear my other TOS regarding adoptables is super tame, i dont care about redesigns or anything else, it's ONLY really specific , agreed upon 'morally bad' things that im just like. zero tolerance about. i love making designs and selling them and seeing how other people take something ive created and make it their own. i just want to keep my art in spaces and with people who arent being like. nasty. idk. it's pretty much the only thing with my TOS that i actively care about and defend. like do whatever w/the design u bought from me just dont be a creep idgaf . i think having it on my TOS brings me peace of mind / deters those kinds of people from buying from me anyways
Character revoking is not ever going to work. They probably just hid the art and will bring it back in a few months. My genuine recollection is to block and avoid them. It’s better for your health then to stalk their profiles and be thinking about them to the point of stress. I say this with a genuine want to help to be clear. It’s not healthy to fallow people like that and focus on them.
@@trashman11 i see where you are coming from, but in my opinion if you are not going to follow an artists TOS then you shouldnt.. be buying from that artist, no one is making you
I was looking for other comments like this! I had an experience where I didnt look twice into someone I sold to.... Turned out, they REALLY liked animals. :( the most frustrating thing about the situation was when I asked TH mods to delete my design, they said they couldn't because "it wasn't in my tos at the time". Hello.? Ugh. I'm sorry that happened to you ❤
RUclips doesn't like it when I reply to comments, but I had something similar happen to me. I sold someone something, and later they turned out to REALLY like animals. Could not believe it when TH mods told me they couldn't do anything because it wasn't in my tos at the time. Never again.
Oh god,,,, weird terms of service…. I knew somebody with a questionable tos in my opinion. It involved legal terms and shit. This person treated art trades like it was a legal business when most of these trades were done with children, they’re an adult! 😭 It didn’t help their tos was hidden in their carrd that no 14yo is going to look for, let alone understand what “international trade laws” means! Basically, when they explained this to me, they said that anyone who does trades with them agrees to trading legal ownership/copyright over the art. _Even though that requires a contract in some form and these terms were never told to the other party upfront_ Art trades…are not a legal business. It’s literally just gifting each other art,,,
funnily I have a very different take on the "Don't redesign characters" than you. Personally if I think Im going to redesign a character enough I won't buy it. Because why WOULD I buy something I'll just redesign? At that point I would just... design my own character. Like on a seller side I wouldn't be pissed if somebody redesigned a character they bought from me (Like whatever, they're your character now. Do what you want) I'd just be confused.
some people also have “don’t get inspired/copy” in their tos and they care A LOT more if they see a “knockoff” floating around of a design they are trying to sell and aren’t getting paid for. so people just shell out the money to own the og design to avoid people accusing them of stealing it Redesigning the design may be a violation still (assuming it’s on their tos) but creator may look the other way now that they have your money LOL
I had a person turn a whale monster adopt I sold into a humanoid mech. I don't think I'll ever understand why they bought it, but I won't complain because I got the payment I wanted.
I make it extremely clear that when I receive a character, that character is mine forever and I am allowed to do whatever I want with it. I make this extremely clear when I enter a draw to adopt. This includes rewriting the character, completely redesigning the character, or even using this character in monetized media. When you give away a character to me, that is now my character and you cannot take it back.
someone who sells adoptables here, i agree with everything u say xd! My personal TOS are like: don't drastically change specific/recognizable features. like no Emily, you cannot change the entire color palette or body markings. thats all. i dont care about small features, i dont care if someone changes the tail or something, or the hair style and stuff, or if they add extra stuff. but if i have a character with a body window (see-through, for example) and someone buys it just to change the body window to not exist, and changing the entire color palette, why did u even buy this character in the first place?? i dont mind people taking inspiration from my stuff also i truly do not care what people do with the characters themselves. like, anything and everything, no matter how immoral, i dont care lmfao. i got my money, they got the character rights.
Y’know I wonder if you can make a vid dissecting closed species and off branders. Or maybe dissecting adoptables. Idk random ideas since I’ve heard many sides to all three of these.
Definitely going to review the tos I made for comms & character trading that I haven't even used bc I wanna make sure people understand, bc I did make a lot of rules to show boundaries (including stuff that doesnt apply to what I sell) but I wanna make sure said enforcements dont sound unreasonable to a normal person (iirc I basically said I'd blacklist/not sell to them again, and make a beware, but the product if received is still legally theirs, and if not received they get a refund) People should make sure their ToS represents what they want, but the retaliation should not scare regular people away, especially if its bc of unclear consequences, or worse, unclear rules
'Revoking' a character/design/whatever without compensation or a refund is extremely weird to me. That's essentially theft. In 99% of the cases you don't have a valid contract with the person because written TOS aren't automatically lawful, so in theory, you can just break most peoples TOS and they can't do jackshit because their TOS aren't lawful - though please don't maliciously break peoples TOS, most of them are reasonable terms. But with this context people cannot just take away something you've paid for, even characters. If someone was to come up to me and say "yeah idk, I don't vibe with how you treat this design I sold you so I'll just snatch it back :]]" without sending me my payment back... I'd just continue using the design, because it's mine LOL. Just because you "revoked" it doesn't mean you're doing it lawfully. This is one reason why I rarely if ever buy designs/OCs and if I do, it's from mutuals or friends I trust and know they won't just pull a stunt like that. Revoking paid stuff is shitty.
What are your thoughts on people redesigning custom-made designs for them? I make a lot of customs and I’ve found that they’ve been redesigned and then sold because the new owner couldn’t connect with them (the new design usually) anymore. It has gotten to a point where I have lost motivation to continue making customs. It pisses me off a little bit, idk.
I've had this exact thing happen to me! Honestly, I don't mind much. I try to see it from their perspective; they had a design custom made, meaning they had no idea what it would look like before they would recieve it. They didn't connect with it right away, but they wanted to at least try to, so they tweaked the design somewhat to see if they could connect that way. They still didn't, but now they've invested time into the design, so they resell it to someone else who might like it better. It's up to the person who buys it which design they like better, so if they do like the redesign, then they can use that, or they can keep the original! I get how it could be upsetting though, but I do think they have good intentions and just couldn't connect
As an artist, i get so upset seeing characters revoked from others because it makes me imagine losing my babies, who Ive worked hard on, taken from me. Im a huge believer that revoking is theft. My toyhouse t.o.s specifically states that once someone buys my design, they get all rights to it as long as i can use it in a portfolio type way. I don’t believe that artists should be allowed to revoke designs once they sell, personally. I wish toyhouse would do something like ban strict t.o.s stuff? Idk maybe thats too harsh but toyhouse is so toxic and i think the lack of moderation there definitely makes it worse.
I'm selling adopts over 10 years now and yeah I definetly needed to change my TOS unfortunately ...because of that rare cases of people being not nice, though I agree with you on all points too. (I definetly dislike the rule the most - "you can sell them for whatever you want". I was underpricing myself waaay too much in the beginning of my time and sold like an adopt with 20+ artpieces for under 10$ and people are selling them for 100$ now without any added artwork / worth, it's insane q__q). One rule which is also insane for me and did come to my mind immediatly - is not make any siblings / childrens ouf the design, because I do like to have ships and maybe kids in the future.(I do understand you not wanting to somebody "copy" your design - but you also don't need to make twins / indentical designs to make a sibling). I'm definetly here for all the character / toyhouse content on your account! So I'm very glad about this video!
i completely agree.. your selling the character. (unless otherwise stated…) i think that should mean the buyer has the same rights as they would if they created the character themselves. the only thing that should be credited is the designer. if not your basically buying the rights to colors on a screen.. you’d be better off buying art of an existing oc instead of a design
honestly if i give my character up my personal opinion is that it’s not my character anymore, i don’t associate with it anymore, it’s none of my concern what they do with it as it’s their own property now but that’s just me 🤷
The only time i took a character back was when the person wanted a refund. I gave a full refund and they still wanted to keep the character anyways. I gotten em back eventually and put them into a raffle. They wanted to keep the character cause i didnt want the character so why would i want it back even tho they received their refund in full
What I did to make sure my terms of service were covering all my bases is find someone with one they allow people to copy off of and one by one each point copy and paste them and reword how I see fit! in my opinion if I sell an adopt I'll specify any commissioned/full made art piece exists for the character that the price can go up! I actually would prefer all my prices to stay at the value I sell them for and not less, not cause blah blah blah but I'd much rather people not lose their moneys worth! Ontop of that if someone COMPLETELY remakes their adopt and I like the old design more maybe I could reach out and pay half the price for the old design back and they keep their new design and I could re-sell or just keep! ^^
I love toyhouse, but some people on there are truly unhinged with their tos. I once saw someone who in their tos said "If you say I can't do something with the design on your tos, by accepting mine you agree that is now null and will not apply to me during my ownership." I was a silly goose and didn't look at their tos before I traded them one of my designs for some of theirs (that's 100% on me) but luckily this person traded the design I gave them off and doesn't own them anymore which is...genuinely a huge relief. I don't know if their "tos" would even hold up if any sort of conflict happened, but it's so strange to me to basically have a clause saying you don't have to follow ANY rules a designer sets. And what about designs obtained secondhand where the designer DIDN'T directly trade to them and agree to those terms???
Honestly that sounds like a fun solution to the designers who add all the unnecessary caveats to their TOS 😂 Your TOS says you can take back a character you’ve sold to me if you don’t like what I do with it? Aha, trap card, my TOS says your TOS is void
@@SynoicusK43 yeah, no, this comment was supposed to be critical of this person. If you dont like a person's tos don't trade for their characters (I wouldn't have traded with this person if I'd actually looked and that's on me), you don't get to just void it. Yes, there are people with unhinged and unreasonable rules, but you don't get to just say "this doesn't apply to me because I said so."
100% of the belief especially if you’ve paid money for the character, you own it therefore you can do as you please with it. If it’s redesigning them, getting weird art or anything. The creator lost the right to control how you use said character after selling. You will always be the designer of the character but you shouldn’t be so strict on the dos and don’t when that oc is no longer yours
im like in the middle of the video.. and the one thing about "revoking" a design, as a person who makes characters and adoptables, honsetly i actually hate the whole "revoking" thing.. Especially if the rules are SUPER strict.. the only reason for ME doing that, is if the person deletes the design on toyhouse (cause i usually wanna see what their doing with the character, and who owns it) ,never used it and never communicated with me with if they were actually gonna use the design or not. I have only had to revoke one design cause of this, i believe But this video kinda makes me rethink that slightly.. (I might maybe change that rule..) Like you can use my designs HOWEVER u want.... You can redesign, resell etc etc theres nothing to exactly to follow.. .. (Theres also "dont give blacklisted people this"... ) So thru out the video i honestly agree with everything.. Like i wouldnt go against everything u think. (Im so sorry if my typing is bad)
your rules sound really fair! me personally as sad as it would be if someone deleted the whole page i usually don't do anything about it b/c i have no proof whether or not they're using it elsewhere and i don't want to resell it again or something in case that person genuinely does still want that oc and simply doesn't like toyhouse or something. but i do think that's kind of up to the designer. i'm a multiplatform artist so my designs aren't confined to toyhouse anyway, but i would imagine if you only sell and post on toyhouse it wouldn't be the same
In my opinion, as someone who hid their characters and moved off site (and still loves and uses each and every one of them, just on my hard drive) I would be REALLY upset if someone reuploaded my beloved character because I didnt individually alert them to me hiding my ocs. IMO, don't do this. It's wrong to assume that a character is unloved just because it's deleted from one website. Ask if you have to, because maybe theyll respond and tell you about how they're using the character somewhere else!! and even if you never get a reply, you shouldn't assume it's unloved. I'm glad to hear you're open minded about changing revocation rules, and I hope my perspective helps make a case for why it's not a good idea
@@8MW_ @qwizz honsetly i can agree with the both of you about this.. i might just honsetly say like (ill only revoke w/ perms) or just ask to put a character offsite with comminution with me (so i still know where the character is etc) just so its more fair and not like im stealing away something they got from me even if they still enjoyed that character. this does also change my perspective on “horders” or people who “dont rlly touch/use” designs too.. thanks for sharing both ur opinions tho it helped with my perspective alot better! (Again sorry for if my writing has mistakes again...)
In my fictional tos, I say it's okay to sell it higher for what you paid for it. Just as long you didn't come to me, planning to resell it, or give me some of the money you got for it if higher than oringal price. Of course, I would think it'd be dependant on the person selling the character. You could also ask for a refund and give back the character to the artist you got it from so they could resell it instead if no extra value was added to it
This is just a personal, unwarranted, opinion; but I think that if I brought something like a design or an “adopt” it’s entirely mine. Like it’s my design. I’d use it like how I would use any of MY designs. I paid real-life “big boy” money for this object. Like, if I brought a blanket from a small business and they decided they didn't like what I was doing with it are they allowed to just take it back?? No.
basically, artists can do what they want and so can their customers a lot of what non-industry pro's list in their TOS isn't enforceable in law even if you agree to it, it's moral codes with a pinch of (sometimes) genuine stuff, like copyright and refund protection
I know that this like, never happens since we’re talking about internet furries, but hypothetically the artist can legally enforce their T.O.S if there’s evidence the customer agreed to it. The artist automatically owns the copyright, and therefore they can make whatever highly specific restrictions they want. I don’t agree with taking characters back either, but technically they legally could if it was clearly written out in their T.O.S. It wouldn’t surprise me someday to see a petty artist actually try suing someone over this lmao.
artists who try to limit how you should draw a character in a TOS are so annoying. i got a character from a raffle once, of course no one expects to win a raffle, and i went to check their TOS AFTER winning. it said i wasnt allowed to give the characters eyelashes or draw them with a :3/:> face. are u kidding me. i even went and dmed the artist asking if this was a serious TOS rule and they said yes. i regifted that design ASAP. no way in hell youre gonna tell me not to draw a :3 face or give them a basic facial feature because it makes you uncomfortable. if it does that to the point where you dont like seeing people draw it with your designs, then why the hell are you giving away designs in the first place?? long story short check the TOS before entering a raffle because there's a chance you will actually win the character one day and the TOS WILL matter
To be frank the idea of buying a character off someone, buying an adoptable, or anything paywalled that feels like something you can merely take inspiration for and do yourself. Idk it just feels silly to me. It is a part of artist internet culture I never understood. My brain always thinks: Can’t I just make this myself..?
I view it like going to a restaurant. You could take the time to cook at home, or you could pay someone else to make a meal for you. It's also a lot easier to edit a design that was already made than it is to make one from scratch. And of course, there's the people that don't draw or know how to design a good character.
i agree with a lot of your points in this video! however as someone who personally knows alot of big creature in the furry adoptable community, alot of these rules ARE there for that .5 percent :( bigger creators get more ppl who misuse their art. i agree that those rules are for the people that dont even read them, but its more for to protect the artist themself. most artists i know dont go after people who break simple tos rules, its more of a "ugh okay" then them harrassing them. the revoking of the design is stupid tho which makes me glad that ive never seen it in anyone tos, but i also dont really branch out from the niche part of the furry fandom im in
16:40 if you already know the artist who is selling the character is going to be that controlling over how much you can customize it, just draw the customized version and post it claiming its your original character and nobody will know because two characters looking similar on the internet is no new occurrence.
Honestly I really wanted a character I sold back when they re designed and changed the gender (they were a trans masc character) and gave the character a drawing where they have now have boobs and say the f slur. I decided it wasn't in my hands anymore though even though I really disliked seeing that. I did block the artist who made that (they aren't the ocs owner anymore since they traded them away) It made me uncomfortable tbh and I regret selling them. I probably won't sell designs made by me anymore. It's not something I am comfortable with doing since it feels way too personal to me when a design is made by me. (It's why I rarely buy characters because I don't feel close to characters I own via purchasing most of the time anyways)
Personally I don’t understand how artists came to the conclusion that selling a character was a service. A character is a product, products don’t have terms of service. If you want to have control over your design, you have to sell rights to use, not ownership.
Me personally, my terms of service are very simple. Don't make it 100% unrecognizable (I'm fine with redesigns, I redesign 90% of my chars afterall) (as you said, this like... never happens... though...) and don't make NSFW, because im a minor and check on designs i made sometimes If someone broke these, i wouldn't "revoke" the design -- that feels... weird? -- I'd just blacklist them from buying again.
SPITTINGG. I had friends that revoked designs they made for me that I had done work for. “Well we’re not friends antmore so ur breaking my tos 🤓” ok bro
For me, I just tend to not take characters back unless if they were free and the person didn’t add anything and they give them to me. If someone would break my tos idc I’ll watch out for them a bit [depending on what rule they broke] and just let life go on. Not my character anymore so there isn’t anything I can do. I find it a bit strange with rules how a character can just be taken like at least give them back what they paid you ya know.
I have an issue with entering multiple free raffles and freebies on impulse. One time I’d done a round of them and the next day remembered to check the artists TOS and such incase I didn’t agree with them and had to pull out. Yeah I’d entered some random cute pastel raffle that was by someone who’s TOS said they wouldn’t sell to people with “fake genders/sexualities” ????????? Pulled out so fast
I sold designs to people who ended up being vile “child likers” and despite “child liking” being against my tos.. (the only rules are no “child liking, no “animal liking”, and no “corpse liking”) I still didn’t revoke them despite missing the design.. personally cause.. what exactly was that design just used in…..?
Theres this designer that I looked up to that blocked me for declining a trade and put me on their blacklist so no longer having rose tinted glasses, there's a lot of weird stuff on there, here's some of it "Traded character (Art, Trade, Ac) Cannot be sold unless you've added two or more artworks [You will be confronted if you will sale a traded OC with no additional art] Can be traded, can be gifted or sent back. Freebie character (Free, Raffle, WTA) Can NEVER be sold regardless of how much art was added. Cannot be traded unless you've added two or more artworks. Can be gifted or sent back. Freebies have a 2 month cooldown from the date received => You are not allowed to trade it (in the case you added art) before this cooldown ends. You're still allowed to regift it anytime tho! TOS violation will lead to my BlackList" "Results in Blacklisting:.. ... 3. Bailing on purchase result in a block, don't offer to just say "I don't want it anymore" or "I can't do it" or the worst one "I decided it's not worth it"." (what I broke) Also there's a "Do not trade or sell to anyone on my blacklist" and then they don't specify everyone on their blacklist. Anyways I may or may not have gotten somebody to trade me one of their designs for a few artworks and now she's one of my fav ocs
I love the fact you listed stupid TOS rules and then listed a perfectly valid one (being to back out of and waste their time) and said that's the one you broke. You're the issue dude, clearly backing out of offers and being annoying is going to make them not want to sell to you anymore, they have ZERO reason to believe you won't do it again. Like sure, there's some pretty good reasons to back out of an offer or whatnot, but they have every right to not want to sell to you, no matter your reason. And no, their shitty TOS can't be your reason, as you should have read that before offering, it's not "no longer having rose-tinted glasses", it's you deciding after trying to buy something that you actually just wanted to be annoying. And, to add, you're surprised you got blacklisted even though you're saying in this very comment you broke their TOS and then did so AGAIN willingly? Yeah, I dunno who you thought was gonna sit here and think you were somehow in the right. You're worse. If you broke like ANY of the other rules in the TOS, you'd have a case, but you don't have one here, you went around wasting their time and are now mad that they drew a line and said "I don't want you wasting my time anymore" with a blacklisting. It would have been so much easier for you to just make fun of the actually dumb parts of their TOS in this comment and not cry about personal things you're at fault for.
@karojirai While I do agree with you a lil bit, I like fucking with people. Also there's some stuff I ommited bc I don't like comments being too long, I offered to trade, he chose someone I wasn't willing to trade bc I was trading it to a friend, I explained that, he blocked me and started vague posting about me and said smthn about my response time. And I'm not the only one who agrees not letting ppl back out of trades is a huge red flag, explained my situation, and almost everyone awake at that time agreed that this sucked, then I explained it to my father (Im a bitch cry baby), he agreed that it was stupid. So I was petty and got one of their ocs bc why not. Chill tf out babe, you don't need to be doing all that for a yt comment.
i do generally agree with this video, but i think the ooonly thing that contradicts my view on this is the hard no on design revocation ever. i do agree that terms like "dont change the design too much or its mine again" are dumb but i think an artist wanting to have a failsafe in the cases of say, the buyer being outed as a bigot or a groomer is reasonable yk? purely because i know i personally wouldnt want my art associated with someone like that, even if the clause ends up being used rarely or not at all, itd be good to have.
I talked about this in the video! Yes I get where you're coming from but I don't like artists giving themselves the power to take a design away like that. What about false claims? Those aren't at all uncommon. Does an innocent person deserve to get their property taken from them on the grounds that someone posted a callout? And yes, while in theory it'd be nice to never have your designs fall into the hands of bad people, and I'm not defending those kinds of people by any means, I think the principle doesn't make sense to me. Because why should you get the power to take property away without compensation because the other person's morals don't align with yours? And again, that's not me saying those things are okay. That's me pointing out that this isn't a clear line and therefore sort of unfair imo. Are you going to make a comprehensive list of all the adjectives that buyers can't associate with without getting their design revoked? "Bigot" means different things to different people. A term like "if you're a bad person ill revoke your design" seems so easy to misuse to me. If you sell a character, it's not yours anymore. That's my opinion. We should be doing background checks before selling to people, not after. Especially on shaky proof. Most people with common sense aren't going to assume you're best buds with someone or support all their actions because they own a design by you, either. On every site but toyhouse it's kind of hard to even trace it back to you. Yeah, it sucks when someone you don't like owns and is using your design. But the more logical plan of action imo is to just block them and never sell to them again, like some of the other comments have said.
I can list so many potential situations where this could go wrong, versus that ONE case where it might make sense. Why normalize the concept in that context? - false claims that later get disproven - based on your individual morals (e.g inner lgbtq discourse) and don't necessarily hurt anyone/warrant stealing their property back and reselling again - could put MORE negative attention on you than if you just let them keep the design - the person you resold it to after didn't know about it's past owner, and now THEY are getting associated with the big bad wolf. The only person who profited (twice) in this context is you. Does that sound fair? Once a brand gets attached to a character it does tend to linger. Who's gonna be the one who has to live with that? - personal issues that don't warrant stealing property and reselling it again
@@QwizzI do get where you’re coming from, but I do think a artist can be liable to take back a design if they want to, as long as if it were their TOS, and it would’ve been buyer’s choice to still go through with it.
@Carottleamen did you watch the video? Or the section at 6:00? Yeah artists can put whatever they want in their tos but that doesn't make them immune to critique or invalidate anyone's points on the matter. You can do whatever you want, nobody's saying you can't
@@Qwizz Yes, I did watch the full video-there’s no need to get so hostile just because I replied to your comment. I understand and agree that artists aren’t immune to critique for their TOS, and I wasn’t trying to invalidate anyone’s points. My point was more about respecting agreements that buyers choose to accept when proceeding with a purchase. It’s fair to critique TOS policies, but it’s also fair for an artist to enforce them if they’re transparent about their terms.
As someone who does a lot of adopt stuff. I try to keep my tos as simple as I can. Idc what the hell you do with the design you bought as long as you aren’t using it to push an ideology that harms others (zoos, kid likers, etc etc) Redesign it, do whatever, i can’t care because yeah i got money and now you’re enjoying it so it’s a win win for us lol One of my least favorite things about others TOS’s is the whole freebie thing I have one specific person in mind but they have a tos that even if you pay for comms on a freebie design you’re not allowed to sell it??? I get if it’s just the character with no added art but they’ll blacklist you for selling a free character that again, has paid art which confuses me so much lmao The character trading scene confuses me, i genuinely don’t get it because another artist I have a few designs from it’s like their designs are only to be traded around. I never see anybody actually draw or get art of those designs before selling them immediately
Only TOS artists should have is "Dont resell for higher price without comissioned art" anything else is unreasonable. That is the rule i had when i used to sell/trade adopts. In my belief no one should ever revoke a design. I dont care about what reason its petty and immature.
The first 500 people to use my link skl.sh/qwizz12241 will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare premium!
Had someone get really really pissy at me after I redesigned a character I bought for them, made sure they are recognizable. Well appearantly not recognizable enough and they even asked me if I wanted to just give the character back instead? Excuse me, I paid for this character?
Ugh I hate that, once you trade or sell the character to someone, it's no longer yours and you no touch
Y?
Why buy a character if your just gonna redesign it?
@@RandomNoobbbbbSame reason you would redesign a character that you designed yourself
@@RandomNoobbbbb I had it for a year at that point and only made some changes so it's easier for me to draw
Well now I gave that character to my boyfriend and made a complete new one
What also kinda annoys me is when someone says “if you loose connection, send the character back to me”, like I get it if the character was originally free and currently doesn’t have any extra art/value, but if it was an oc that I traded/payed for then why should I send them back to the original owner for free if I could instead put the oc up for offers and trade with someone else to get something for the time/money I put into the character? But dude all of this stuff really makes you sound chronically online it’s so funny 😭
I have personally asked a few people to let me know if they lose connection but here's the thing, if they no longer want the character. Imma pay to get it back. Not like ask for it back for free lmao. I think it's ridiculous to expect you can get an oc back for free whenever like the new owner put their own art, commissioned art into it. YAAA I think it's fine to ask people to contact you first before resale but if you intend on getting the character back. You should be prepared to PAY for it.
in my tos i say they can give it back to me if theyre struggling to get rid of it and they want to give it back. i think that sounds as reasonable and non pushy as i could possibly make it lol, i dont want to give refunds for characters that have been owned for years but if its between me and some random shelter i want them to know sending it back to me is an option. i like redesigning my crusty old adopts
Yeah, if I really like a design I did, I'll put in my TOS "please reach out to me so I can buy the design back if you lose connection"
I'm willing to pay them whatever the new value is
I never flat out say “send the design back” in my tos but I do state to at least reach out to me if someone plans on selling as I do still like some of my designs but I’d never take the character for free that’s pushing it far
i wouldnt ever say this but i think i get it. some people get frustrated with no one buying the chars they have because they want to clean out so bad and they delete the design completely . its really annoying, so as silly as it sounds i kind of get saying hey im not gonna leave it up to u to delete my design when you want, just give it to me if u rlly dont want it ill figure out what to do
People who getting so mad about redesigns are so confusing to me. I tried having a discussion with a very popular Toyhouse designer about redesigns and they were strongly against almost any redesigns, and were very strong about how changing a characters gender or body for example makes you a “morally evil” person and continued to bash me and imply I was racist and homohobic because I said people should be able to change anything about a character if it’s theirs, such as a characters sexuality. I genuinely don’t understand why people get so mad about things like this 🤷♀️
there are people out there who consider changing things like gender or body type or even something like sexuality to be redesigns?!? good god i do that all the time lol. i’m buying the base design not whatever lore the previous person had for them. i know lots of people who even prefer you change previous bio info
i make a lot of freebies and adopts to give out in discords and i absolutely LOVE seeing the redesigns that people come up with when they redesign my guys. it always made no sense to me (unless it was like a personal character that you were forced to sell or other circumstances like that) why people were so hurt/offended over redesigning adopts/freebies
I rly don't get it because if they're selling the character, they shouldn't get so attached to that character's current iteration since it's not going to be theirs. If they don't want it to change, they shouldn't sell the character🤷
@@liminalniko Exactly!
dude i LOVE when people redesign my character designs i've sold tbh, it's so neat to me to see how the design ends up changing, even if the person ends up never drawing them again afterwards.
this video is so weirdly well timed for me, i've not really drawn anything in like over a year now and i'm thinking about doing it again via selling character designs like i used to do years ago. cooking up a TOS seemed daunting at first, but then this vid showed up and it's actually... kinda easy for me to conceptualize now lmfaooo
me too!! the only time i didnt like it is when they redesigned it completely and removed all the recognizable features and then never used the character 😭 but i still didnt say anything abt it because even back then i recognized that i had sold it and no longer had any right to control what happened to it
What always annoys me is vague tos terms, specifically the "don't associate my designs with homophobia, racism, discrimination, etc" because I'm always unsure if that means to not make hate art with the character or simply don't associate them with those topics. I'm nonbinary and pansexual so a few of my characters deal with homophobia or transphobia, for my purposes I wish they were more exact without needing to ask for clarification. Also annoying when the tos constantly changes especially if its clear the artist is simply making exceptions for their friends, one of the artists I bought a design from updated their tos like 5 times in a short amount of time clearly because their friend wanted to do something against it. Your tos is your boundaries for your designs, don't let people break your boundaries because they're your friends especially if that boundary being broken was a blacklistable offense before. They won't explode or anything if they aren't allowed to draw certain kinds of art of that one character
i think you can always safely assume that people mean "Dont put me and my creations as a pro-whatever--bad-thing" rather than "no you cant give them a tragic backstory"
@@NeverEverTMyou would think but I've been in the character trading scene for about 6 years and some people are simply like that, there are people who have and will make a fuss if you give an oc a tragic backstory. Like I do generally assume they don't mean that but I've seen people genuinely get upset at the darker backstories people give their designs even if it is clear they don't condone it. Some people are so scared of being called a bad person or abuse condoners that they get SUPER protective of what they put out. Which is why vague wording can be annoying, It would be easier in my opinion to simply put "Do not use my designs to promote hate speech" or "please don't make my designs do bad things and condone their actions" over "do not associate my designs with these things". I just find it nice when a tos is specific and clear, that way there is no grey area and I can know if the person is someone I'd rather not do business with for that tos
@silverfang405 see I like what you're saying here because I think it boils down to the fact that everyone's morals are different and it doesn't make sense to take someone's property back because their morals don't align with yours. Are there some things that might be universally/arguably bad? Yeah, but some things have more of a gray area or be super controversial(inner lgbtq discourse, pro/anti ship, etc)
That's why i wouldn't want someone to be able to take a design away on the condition that I was "racist, homophobic, etc." Bc I'm not those first two but wtf does etc entail?? I don't know what your opinions are. If you're not going to make a full list then it's weird to say that. It can be misused even with the best intentions
I prefer one that said in the tos that they as a designer didn’t condone the actions taken by anyone that ended up with their oc. It’s an understanding that you can’t control what others do and don’t do with characters and you probably shouldn’t try. Doing so often makes people wanna do said things purely out of spite, especially the younger crowds
@@silverfang405 for mine, I say, "dont use the design to promote bigotry of any kind" but just saying don't associate it is super vague and unhelpful
I am of the belief that once you give something away you no longer have any rights to control what happens to it and that extends to characters. I make it very clear in my "TOS" that there is nothing I can do to take a character away from you and you are free to do with it as you please. The most I ask for it for the character to not be used for spreading bigotry but even then the most I'll do is resign to not sell directly to the person again. I don't understand why people sell characters or designs if they can't fully let them go...At this rate it gets to the point where it feels like you're just renting a design that can suddenly be pulled away from you at any time. it's baffling to me that it's been normalized to the extent it has.
Watching this while I work on a comm. I agree with your points!! I don't want to do business with any artist who:
does revocations,
does not permit or polices redesigns,
polices how you use their designs (ex: "youre not drawing them enough" "i disagree with the lore you gave them",
and who wants to control if your character and their galleries are visible.
Once it's out of your hands, it is not yours to dictate usage of.
I stopped using toyhouse a long time ago because of concerns I have with the site's longevity due to only having one unreliable mod, and made all of my characters private as a result (I downloaded their files to my pc). Knowing that there are people out there who would take issue with my characters being hidden is so weird
I've seen a few people say that they would only revoke if the artist went silent and didn't have other socials, left the character in a trade/sale folder for a long time, or deleted/hid the character. (not singling anyone out who said this though, it's an opinion I've seen elsewhere before!)
My argument against this is the following.
-Its entirely possible they lost internet access
-Social media is not for everyone, and if they left it doesn't mean their characters are up for grabs. They could still be using them offline.
-If they left them in a trade or sale folder, it's still their character to decide to trade or sell, even if they're inactive for a long time.
-In the worst case scenario, a person can pass away. I remember part of the controversy about DA making your art opted into their ai by default was that deceased artists couldn't opt out. In much the same way, a deceased person can't tell you not to reupload their character because you assumed they weren't using them.
Ultimately, once a character leaves your hands, the owner can use them... or not! and that is their choice as it is now one of their belongings. If you want to control aspects of a design like these that feel out of your reach, you probably shouldnt be trading or selling them. There's no shame in keeping a lot of designs you're attached to!
As someone who makes adopts and customs, I LOVE seeing people redesign the designs I give them; to me, it means they're personalizing the OC into something they connect with. IMO, it's a huge compliment to have someone turn my design into something more personal to them, and I don't know why some designers are so restrictive about it. If you don't want people to have creative freedom with the designs _they own_ due to the transaction, why give designs away at all?
Revoking designs is something that REALLY brings up a red flag, especially if the design was paid for by the other party. It seems VERY controlling to me. The only reasons I would revoke a design is if I was charged back for one that was paid for (if you want to take the money you paid away from me, I'm taking back the design that was supposed to be paid for), or if the design is being used for AI training or NFTs.
(Using royal "you" here) Like, the moment money becomes involved, you have to start looking at things from a professional stance. Just like if I'm on the clock at my retail job, and there's a customer I don't like, I have to do the bare minimum of my job servicing them politely, the same logic applies here. Your job is this scenario is selling designs. Once you sell a design, it's not yours anymore (unless your ToS specifically states joint ownership kind of things, which imo would deter a LOT of people and get messy fast). You don't get to just take the design back just because you don't like someone, and even in the sparse instances where someone is using the character in actual extremely scummy ways, the best thing you can do from there is cut your ties completely and block the person.
"But I don't want people doing this, that, or the other thing (to the design)," sorry but once you sell a design, it's not yours anymore! That's the point! If you're not ready for that reality, I don't think you're ready to be providing designs as a service, period.
Yes and no. I had to learn a lot about intellectual property, trademark, and patent. Unfortunately this is entirely legal where I live. Art always belongs to the artist, designs are the same thing. But I think this is unethical. So even though I /could/ I deliberately put in my tos that you 100% own it. But If you buy a character from an artist with this in your tos that's kind of on you.
Literally my terms of service: don’t use my design to spread and promote hate speech (yes character IN STORY can be homophobic/racist/etc)
If I own a design by another artist, I'll absolutely follow their TOS, but when it comes to my designs... as long as I get credit for the original design, I don't care what happens to it lmfao. Resell something I gave you for free for like $100, IDGAF. I've actually had someone redesign a design to be absolutely unrecognizable and all it made me was confused over why they bought the original design -- but I still got paid, so again, don't really care :P
I think a wild aspect to a lot of modern TOS is restrictions on how you can draw the character? I 110% get not wanting something to be involved w/ bigoted BS etc or whatever but its not like those people will obey a TOS anyways & plus, like you said, I think restricting the way someone uses a design they own is "something you shouldn't say about someone else's property".
Anyways, lovely video and great topic pick!
i'm not joking when i say i don't have a TOS, you just own the character anf thier lore now, have fun with them
edit: i make lore with my adopts to give them more value
You bring up a lot of good points. I am personally far too attached to my character whcih is why they are all forever homed.
However I had a situation where I made a design meant to be a dopt, and then told another friend who was also selling adopts that I liked it so much that I wanted to keep it.
And they told me it was stupid for doing that. I kept them anyway. best decission ive made.
very strange thing for them to say, i see adopt sheets all the time with one or two that the creator decided to keep, lol
I once had a person in their tos not allow me to trade their designs for free or like a raffle, they later ended up stealing my own designs but that another story…
to be fair once you sold a design you should no longer have control of said design, a credit is already enough
oooh i love these takes!!
especially the redesign portion. every character i've bought i've ended up usually altering the color palette to have more saturation / contrast and adding outfits. if that is against an artist's t.o.s i just don't buy it, though.
"character flippers" also pmo. i don't view it as wrong if time passed, because in that case, maybe people would be willing to pay more for x artist's design due to more people discovering the artist / wanting those artist's designs. However, i have also seen it where people (especially for pop designers) would buy a design and resell it for higher within a week DX
however i sorta view the right mode of action if this does happen is to just block them from buying / refuse to sell to them. yeah they maybe gained one or two flips, but eh. oh well.
" "character flippers" also pmo." What also what?
@Most-sane-deltarune-fan I'm referring to people who buy a design just to resell it immediately because the designer has some worth!
@ Yes, but what were those two terms you just used?
@ The ones in your original comment.
@Most-sane-deltarune-fan character Flippers are people who buy a character just to immediately resell, "pmo" just means piss me off
my tos is LITERALLY just "do whatever just dont claim my design as yours i do not care"
i love these videos when you talk about character trading and selling. I'm not at all familiar with the customs so learning about it through these is really helpful !! 💙
ah yes, toyhouse users being weird /lh, not a surprise tbh, first it was the kinsonas that are just stolen characters, now this?? people can't seem to compreehend the fact that once you give away a chat/design, it's no longer theirs :/, it's annoying, expecially when they act entitled about it, and don't even get me started on those TOS', yikes
As far as revoking goes, Walmart can't come take a blender back if I use it for crafts instead of food.
To demand a different precedent sets a standard I do not want to live by.
And I have sold designs and commissions
Artists tend to have a serious misunderstanding of one thing: You lose FULL ownership of anything you share with the world. Anyone can draw it and do ANYTHING they want to. Owning it or not.
If you want something kept personal, you gotta KEEP it personal.
Watching this video through made me remember its been a good moment since I've updated my Tos on my Toyhouse, so I gave it a good update that it... *desperately* needed as I realized there were details I didn't add and stuff I no longer agreed with xD
At the end when you said, "I think you should repeatedly ask yourself as you handwrite your terms of service, is this something I should be saying about someone else's property?" Really made me think about my old Tos
There was nothing crazy in it mind you, I'm not a strict person about the characters I make, but it made me fully adjust what I had put down for "Character Recognizability"
I had it as a plain "Redesign just make them recognizable" which had no description of *how* recognizable, cause thats what most of my buds had for theirs lol
As I updated everything else, I had fully changed that one completely, as I asked "Would I actually care if somebody made them look wildly different?"
Literally tested it with a pastel character by making a copy and making them a neon demon with sharp claws and spikes
The answer? Naw. I really don't. I think it would actually be hilarious if someone neon'd the crud outta one of my softer designs😂
Awesome video! Really helpful when thinking about the bigger picture. You have an awesome day/night brah🎉
This is a really interesting video! I was in the adoptable community a long time ago, and my TOS were pretty simple back them I think. However, I did remember some drama over abusive TOS like 'if you want to get rid of the character then give it back to me instead of reselling it' (which meant that you lost the character AND your money) or 'if I do not like what you do with the character or you do not use it then I will revoke it', which I thought was quite wild.
I think I only revoked a character once in my life. Back when G+ was still alive (gosh, I feel old) I was in a community where we made ocs, and one day I made free redesigns, with the only rule being that, as they were free, they could not be resold. I made four or five and I was really proud of them! And my heart broke when less than a week later, one of the people I made a redesign for, decided to sell it, with no art added or anything, they just tried to sold the redesign that I gave them for free. I ended up informing them that I was going to revoke the redesign, that they could keep the old design, as stated by the one and only rule that was written on my post, it could not be resold.
Sadly I did not do anything with that character. Maybe I should use them someday, maybe I should just look at the design sometimes and that is all. I found it difficult to use them or gift them bearing in mind that they still had the same theme and some of the characteristics of the original design.
I have to say though, I did not know that some people count as 'redesign' to add clothes to a character!! Or accessories!! It had never crossed my mind something, I always took redesigns as changing markings, or colours until they do not look like the original at all (which often naturally happens as you draw one character, I have to admit). I suppose I can relate to seeing one design I'm very proud of being changed so much as being something disheartening, but at least they get loved that way, which I think is what counts!
Great video btw! I really like the points you made and your research, and your drawing as well!! I love how colourful it is :33 hope you have a great day!
YESSS THHIS VID IS SO GOOD IM ONLY STARTING TO WATCH THIS LOL BUT I LOVE UR VIDS UR ART IS SOO ENTERTAIING AND UR VOICE IS SO NICE I LOVE UR TALKING VIDS FR ^_^
You might bring this up but the best reproduction for tos breaking in my opinion is to blacklist them from being able to buy your designs ever again
Yeah, my "TOS" is just 'the instant I send that character to you, it's no longer mine. It's yours to do whatever you want with it. Go nuts, I don't care what you do with it, it's yours now, not mine.'
But that's just me. I personally don't care what people do with the characters I sold. Once I send it off, it's outta my hands. Idgaf. Lmao
My only rule is just not to buy them just to resell them for higher. tbh i really don't care what people do with the oc
I don’t get why the original artist who drew the art gets SO pressed, when the buyer slightly changes the design. If that makes any sense
Something I think is an important distinction that you didn't make: I believe there's a difference between gift art and traded art. A person makes gift art because they like the character or the person who owns said character; they do it of their own free will, for their own enjoyment. An art trade on the other hand, involves both parties agreeing to put in roughly equal amounts of effort, and choosing which of their own characters the other party will draw. Time is money, and if commissioned art and personal art adds value, then traded art should add value too, because you paid for that art by spending time making art for your trade partner yourself. Gift art is different because it was received for free, traded art is not free.
Had someone comment on a design that I owned, that they made, saying I had to ask their permission to add extras features onto a character...
I had given the character wings btw, in the exact same colours and with no changes to the base design. So I said I'm not doing that, obvs, and they then proceeded to fight me and argue with me that it's against their tos. What where these tos? A work in progress apparently cause they hadn't even been written yet... but somehow I was supposed to know and follow them anyways, yeah I don't think so.
Honestly it boils my piss when people try and add bullshit rules like revokes, redesigns and tradebacks onto designs *I MADE*, like f off no?? Thats not only against my tos, cause I hate those rules and I think it's stupid, but its also just so possessive? If you can't handle the mere idea that someone just might draw a character the way they want or, heaven forbid, add a minor detail then you shouldn't be selling/trading, end of.
And if you think that's stupid then I want you to take a second, breathe, and think about it this way:
Imagine you buy a house (crazy in this economy ik but stick with me) and you buy it in its entirety, paid full price blah blah blah, then one day, out of nowhere, the old owners come banging on your door and throwing a fit cause they saw through your window that you changed the wallpaper they put up. It's weird right?
And yes I'm aware houses and pixels on a screen aren't the same but I like to think we can all use our thinking caps and think about hyperboles and subjectivity and etc etc lol /lh
wowowowo dude, I'm brazilian and I loved that you put automatic dubbing in PT/BR, I luv the video!!! a brazilian fan
crying because just yesterday some of my friends gave you their tos, idk if you know but the sashley/ knite/ joycawn design market is crazy for reselling for obnoxious amounts of money and tradeback etc
some people even resold ocs they got from trades and gifts
rip
i had someone who said theyd be "watching me" to make sure i use the character i bought off them that they literally never used, i blocked them.
also, i had a case like 5 years ago where i got this really cool oc for free, and the original designer of the character (also 13 at the time) said they taking it away from me. last year i reached back out to them and we cleared things up, i can confirm ownership again
I've been actively avoiding buying from people that have T.O.S I don't agree with. Like, what do you mean I can't change the design at all or I'll be blacklisted? If I keep the design for.. let's say a decade (or longer) and decide the character had a lore event and now they're wearing an eyepatch because they have a scar or lost an eye, then that's my decision. I only buy characters that inspire a story and that I attach myself to with my whole heart.
I once had some people bully and harass me for multiple years. Because they think sending me money, after digging my paypal email back up after months, means that I just no longer own the character. I never agreed to give it back or went against their tos or anything, they just decided they didn't like me. I told them no but they sent their fans to bully and harass me. About a year or two after that whole drama, a friend helped me make a character design inspired by the one they stole from me (not even remotely similar, just inspired by my own idea of it). Because I've already created lore around them, as well as family, friends, a partner. But, of course, they found out because they were stalking my every move. It almost made me quit art outright and the harassment ended up putting me in the hospital - which they laughed at!!! What's even worse is that I used to look up to these people once. I was one of their fans at a point!
To me, that's gross. For the designs I've made and sold / given away, I know that it means I'm giving everything up apart from the credit for the original design and art I've made. If I'm in any way attached to it, I don't sell it / give it away. I once had to redesign an entire mystery custom, with the commissioner's permission, because I got too attached. They actually got an even better design out of it!
You'd think in a hobby / profession all about creativity and creative expression, people would be more understanding... but no, everything has to be a drama, everything has to be a fight, someone has to be a victim... it's exhausting.
Great video, I agree with your points. The one that always confused me the most was revoking a character because it was redesigned too heavily. I could never tell if they want to revoke the original design, or the character itself. Cause if a character is redesigned to the point of warranting a revoke, then the character itself is actually immune to BEING revoked because it's, in the eyes of the designer, a different character. So like, what would revoking an old design do? Its like revoking a design for not being used enough, but worse because there's actual emotional attachment to the original.
I dont think a designer should ever be able to revoke a character under any circumstance. Even if the owner of the character is foul. At most they should be able say "I don't want to be associated with this design anymore. Make a new toy house page of the character where I am no longer credited." or something like that. Which could still be a pretty big blow if the character has 3k drawings, but i would support the designer in that case, where i wouldn't support them if they simply said "mine now"
Speaking of which, I'm impressed at your character with 3 thousand drawings. My favorite oc is five years old, and i was proud to reach 200. I have a long way to go! I loove ocs with massive amounts of art, i always enjoy looking at them.
I do have one note about your video, though. I am someone who watched this while drawing. But you didn't read the topic cards out loud, so when you were discussing people's opinions on revoking designs, I had no context as to what you were talking about or what everyone voted 'no' to, because I wasn't looking at the screen to see it. So it would be nice if you could restructure the beginning sentences in future videos to include the topic specifically. Such as "Revoking designs is one of the most controversial things in the character design scene as of recently", or reading out the topic title in the beginning, just to sort of keep the listeners on the same page as the watchers. It felt particularly jarring considering you specifically mentioned people who don't watch the screen during your sponsorship read.
but all in all, great video. I enjoyed your points, and it was well structured. I think you did a good job keeping it within topic without getting dull.
Despite being an artist, I'm not really involved in the "art community" so I wasn't really sure what this video was gonna be but...yeah I agree with every point.
And tos are why I just make my own characters. One person I used to buy from changed they’re tos to be a LOT more strict and now she can’t sell her characters anymore
20:11 - 20:43
honestly kind of why i quit using toyhouse (and kind of oc trading in general), it just felt like it was all a transaction with no actual life behind it and not rlly a hobby anymore ;w;
Reminds me of that one time where I received a character in a trade. The designer (Not the person who gave it to me), had the strictest character T.O.S that I'VE EVER SEEN. She won't even let you make up your own story for the character you get for her without permission. WHY, WHY, WHY??
BECAUSE WHY NOT APPARENTLY. She got pissy with me when I redesigned the character and made the story different. We than had a argument in the character's comment section. I ended up blocking them and deleting the original character. Rude, yes. Yes it was rude and petty of me to delete the original character, but I kept the redesign. It's the only time I've ever deleted a character that wasn't a dollmaker. Mind you, the original character was given away so many times because of the creator.
Goes to show that trying to make too strict a T.O.S will cause people to disobey it.
I think its crazy that people think they can control what someone does with a character they have handed over to someone else, free or not. I hope these people never make a popular series with their ocs because they won't be able to handle what fandoms do to the characters. On the other hand, simply don't buy/do business with someone who has policies you find ridiculous. Just make a design inspired (and i do mean INSPIRED, NOT STOLEN!) by that design and do what you like with it, if you really must have it.
This is the second video of yours with the text on the thumbnail being “This is…weird” btw, nothing against it I just find it funny lmao
WAIT IT WAS THE OTHER CHARACTER TRADING VIDEO THATS SO SMART LOL
@pigeonsprout STOP I ALREADY GOT A TUMBLR ASK ABOUT IT LET ME OUTTTT
My only tos rule is really let me know if you wanna make money of a design I made because I wanna buy some march! As long as you’re making new art, if I’m making art that you wanna sell I’ll just add on a little extra fee. Like 20$ onto the original cost.
The only oath rule I have about oc swaps or buys is that the character isn’t upsold after getting it from me. But even then I’m not made if you forget something like that.
If I read someone's TOS and they act like they have any baring on the character I paid for the rights for I just dont buy it. That's to their detriment as they will get less sales and interaction, The only one that seems to make sense to me is compensation if the person plans to use the character for commercial use. I had someone tell me after I made a ref sheet of a character I bought from them to "Stop changing it, it doesnt look like my character anymore" bear in mind this person had no TOS. But I was like "'Your' Character"?
It may be disrespectful to go against the wishes of an artist but its also disrespectful and takes away the whole point of owning a character, To enjoy it and just like people, characters change over time. That's whats so great about things like OC's They're living art, they grow and evolve.
I would also like to point out that "Dropshipping" is exactly how every single business works. Walmart buys from china, Target buys from china, Small businesses buy in bulk from other places for cheaper to resell. Companies like the virtual pet websites will pay less for bulk designs to go on their sites.
A character should be priced at whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Take into consideration a small artist that blows up, you bought a design for $5 that design someone is now willing to pay $50 but you only drew it once or twice (and feel your art isnt worth pricing) or not at all.Why would anyone take the $5 over the $50? It doesn't hurt anyone and both parties agree to the price, Personally as a big(ish) Character designer on IG it happens a lot to me but why should it bother me? It makes my value also as an artist extrinsically more and in the long run shows me a fair price people are willing to pay.
My TOS is the bare minimum to legally protect me. I avoid super strict TOS havers since I had an owner harass me to give them a chara I bought back because "I don't use it" i refused to believe I did.... I just didn't post it because I mainly used her for RP.
i once bought an oc from someone [it wasn't their design, it was by someone else], and that someone else came to me telling me that i have to return the design to them, even tho, it was mine legally, then they blocked me after i return it
The whole "trade back" rule makes me judge people. The only time I have done a trade back was when my sister traded me an oc in return. However if they are upset that I want to sell the design i got for 100$ instead of trading it back just. Urks me. Unless they are paying me the 100$ back then I ain't giving it back!
As someone working on a large scale world building project that often buys adopts and customs to ease the burden of having nearly 1000 planned species (not even including characters), it is always a wonderful feeling to find an artist that actually lets me get the full rights to a character. It's great when the only thing I have to worry about is what name to put in the credits.
Also I avoid people that say they'll revoke a design like the plague.
One things I think would help the anxiety that causes Artist to feel a need to ALWAYS have control over how their designs are used, is if we worked on the fandoms habit of equating artist interacting with possibly harmful people in ANY way as proof that the artist themselevs is horrible and evil and awful.
Like if an artist sells a design to someone, and then laters on said person is outed for doing something bad- The fandom has a habit of then using that as proof that the ARTIST did something wrong too. God forbid an artist ever take a custome for someone only to find out the design *completely unknown to them* is being used in something inappropriate or abhorrent.
So many people in the fandom, and online as a whole, equates any and all interaction with "Bad" people as a crime in itself.
And when thats what you're used to seeing is very easy for artist to become anxious and not feel safe with the idea that they're designs *could* end up somewhere like that and not have the ability to take it back.
Its still not a good mindset. But it makes sense why people whould develop it when you look at the community as a whole.
On the topic of redesigns, I think its genuinely unrealistic to expect someone to keep a character design 100% stagnant FOREVER.
Characters change. They develop. They grow. Expecting people to just...not do any of that.. is unrealistic. Not even baring in mind the likelyhood that years could pass and the buyer just..forgets? Redesigns the oc because they forgot that one rule saying they couldn't.
Also, on the "give it back to me if you don't want it anymore!" Rule..
I instead have a "Let me know and give me a heads up if you decide to resell it" for SOME of my designs.
Meaning you can resell/trade away the design. Just let me know so if I can afford whatever you're wanting for them- I have a chance to grab that. If not, I can just wave past and whoever can afford your offer can get the character. No issues.
I think that kind of rule works alot better then "Give it back to me for free even if you spent money on it to begin with."
Also yeah, I have the rule to not resell for more then you paid unless you've added art.
I don't really mind if it's base art/commissioned or hand made. As long as there is *something* put into the oc.
I used to do a lot of adopts both buying and selling on amino with amino coins as a teen, as fun as I found it to be it I thought a lot of it was weird, like I'd see something I liked and wanted to use but see paragraphs of rules on how I can use and dipict the character. A lot of the "I can revoke MY character" stuff is partially why I stepped out of there. I almost do want to go check out toyhouse sometimes but end up screwing around with friends on picrew to make things instead. Not the same fun but not the same weird uncomfortable restrictions
I will say that person you responded to where you compared reselling to dropshopping, I think you might have misunderstood what they were saying or one of us missed their point at least. "What people will pay for" doesn't directly mean they're trying to exploit others, though I can see how it is read that way, that doesn't seem to be their intention.
one thing i will say about design revoking, is i added it to my TOS specifically after i dealt with a situation w/coming to terms with having been abused by my groomers. i had made so much art and so many characters for them during the time when i was a kid/teenager and when i became and adult and realized just how much of my abuse was basically immortalized and attached to those really gross couple of people, i was mortified and basically Not So Gently demanded that all my work be removed from their pages entirely. it brought me a lot of peace of mind and since then i've been a lot stricter about who i sell to and pretty much have low patience for people with values similar to the ones my groomers had (like people who speak inappropriately to/about minors (even fictional), drawing really deplorable nsfw, etc). i try to do ""background checks"" before i sell an adoptable as best as i can, but i do have it in my TOS that i may request character/design termination if it's found out that my work is being attached to disgusting people / actions / art. my groomers used art and OCs to prey on me, and the thought of someone potentially doing that with something *i* made just really bothers me. maybe it's not that deep, idk. i also go about it differently though, because i don't ask for a design to be returned to me, i ask for complete deletion. i've thankfully never had to actually have a discussion with someone about deletion (again i try to just be careful who i sell to in the first place) but in my mind, the character trading scene is pretty big right now in the art community and if someone doesnt like my TOS... for lack of a more polite way to put it, they can kick rocks and go find a different artist to buy from. my work is just so personal to me that imo if someone didn't read my TOS and was surprised by any enforcement actions i took, that's on them. very long winded and a bit personal but i just wanted to share my perspective on character revoking
2 b clear my other TOS regarding adoptables is super tame, i dont care about redesigns or anything else, it's ONLY really specific , agreed upon 'morally bad' things that im just like. zero tolerance about. i love making designs and selling them and seeing how other people take something ive created and make it their own. i just want to keep my art in spaces and with people who arent being like. nasty. idk. it's pretty much the only thing with my TOS that i actively care about and defend. like do whatever w/the design u bought from me just dont be a creep idgaf . i think having it on my TOS brings me peace of mind / deters those kinds of people from buying from me anyways
Character revoking is not ever going to work. They probably just hid the art and will bring it back in a few months. My genuine recollection is to block and avoid them. It’s better for your health then to stalk their profiles and be thinking about them to the point of stress. I say this with a genuine want to help to be clear. It’s not healthy to fallow people like that and focus on them.
@@trashman11 i see where you are coming from, but in my opinion if you are not going to follow an artists TOS then you shouldnt.. be buying from that artist, no one is making you
I was looking for other comments like this! I had an experience where I didnt look twice into someone I sold to.... Turned out, they REALLY liked animals. :( the most frustrating thing about the situation was when I asked TH mods to delete my design, they said they couldn't because "it wasn't in my tos at the time". Hello.? Ugh. I'm sorry that happened to you ❤
RUclips doesn't like it when I reply to comments, but I had something similar happen to me. I sold someone something, and later they turned out to REALLY like animals. Could not believe it when TH mods told me they couldn't do anything because it wasn't in my tos at the time. Never again.
Currently letting this play in the bg while I'm working on a school report:3
AMEN man, I've been saying this for years
Oh god,,,, weird terms of service….
I knew somebody with a questionable tos in my opinion. It involved legal terms and shit.
This person treated art trades like it was a legal business when most of these trades were done with children, they’re an adult! 😭
It didn’t help their tos was hidden in their carrd that no 14yo is going to look for, let alone understand what “international trade laws” means!
Basically, when they explained this to me, they said that anyone who does trades with them agrees to trading legal ownership/copyright over the art. _Even though that requires a contract in some form and these terms were never told to the other party upfront_
Art trades…are not a legal business. It’s literally just gifting each other art,,,
funnily I have a very different take on the "Don't redesign characters" than you. Personally if I think Im going to redesign a character enough I won't buy it. Because why WOULD I buy something I'll just redesign? At that point I would just... design my own character. Like on a seller side I wouldn't be pissed if somebody redesigned a character they bought from me (Like whatever, they're your character now. Do what you want) I'd just be confused.
some people also have “don’t get inspired/copy” in their tos and they care A LOT more if they see a “knockoff” floating around of a design they are trying to sell and aren’t getting paid for. so people just shell out the money to own the og design to avoid people accusing them of stealing it
Redesigning the design may be a violation still (assuming it’s on their tos) but creator may look the other way now that they have your money LOL
I had a person turn a whale monster adopt I sold into a humanoid mech. I don't think I'll ever understand why they bought it, but I won't complain because I got the payment I wanted.
I make it extremely clear that when I receive a character, that character is mine forever and I am allowed to do whatever I want with it. I make this extremely clear when I enter a draw to adopt. This includes rewriting the character, completely redesigning the character, or even using this character in monetized media.
When you give away a character to me, that is now my character and you cannot take it back.
someone who sells adoptables here, i agree with everything u say xd!
My personal TOS are like: don't drastically change specific/recognizable features. like no Emily, you cannot change the entire color palette or body markings. thats all. i dont care about small features, i dont care if someone changes the tail or something, or the hair style and stuff, or if they add extra stuff. but if i have a character with a body window (see-through, for example) and someone buys it just to change the body window to not exist, and changing the entire color palette, why did u even buy this character in the first place?? i dont mind people taking inspiration from my stuff
also i truly do not care what people do with the characters themselves. like, anything and everything, no matter how immoral, i dont care lmfao. i got my money, they got the character rights.
I feel like you can do whatever you want with a character you buy. If i dont like it, ill just block you 🙄
THE CENSOR AT 10:21 CAUGHT ME SO OFF-GUARD WHY DID YOU G-NOTE ME 😭/silly
Y’know I wonder if you can make a vid dissecting closed species and off branders. Or maybe dissecting adoptables. Idk random ideas since I’ve heard many sides to all three of these.
Definitely going to review the tos I made for comms & character trading that I haven't even used bc I wanna make sure people understand, bc I did make a lot of rules to show boundaries (including stuff that doesnt apply to what I sell) but I wanna make sure said enforcements dont sound unreasonable to a normal person (iirc I basically said I'd blacklist/not sell to them again, and make a beware, but the product if received is still legally theirs, and if not received they get a refund)
People should make sure their ToS represents what they want, but the retaliation should not scare regular people away, especially if its bc of unclear consequences, or worse, unclear rules
'Revoking' a character/design/whatever without compensation or a refund is extremely weird to me. That's essentially theft.
In 99% of the cases you don't have a valid contract with the person because written TOS aren't automatically lawful, so in theory, you can just break most peoples TOS and they can't do jackshit because their TOS aren't lawful - though please don't maliciously break peoples TOS, most of them are reasonable terms.
But with this context people cannot just take away something you've paid for, even characters. If someone was to come up to me and say "yeah idk, I don't vibe with how you treat this design I sold you so I'll just snatch it back :]]" without sending me my payment back... I'd just continue using the design, because it's mine LOL. Just because you "revoked" it doesn't mean you're doing it lawfully.
This is one reason why I rarely if ever buy designs/OCs and if I do, it's from mutuals or friends I trust and know they won't just pull a stunt like that. Revoking paid stuff is shitty.
What are your thoughts on people redesigning custom-made designs for them? I make a lot of customs and I’ve found that they’ve been redesigned and then sold because the new owner couldn’t connect with them (the new design usually) anymore. It has gotten to a point where I have lost motivation to continue making customs. It pisses me off a little bit, idk.
I've had this exact thing happen to me! Honestly, I don't mind much. I try to see it from their perspective; they had a design custom made, meaning they had no idea what it would look like before they would recieve it. They didn't connect with it right away, but they wanted to at least try to, so they tweaked the design somewhat to see if they could connect that way. They still didn't, but now they've invested time into the design, so they resell it to someone else who might like it better.
It's up to the person who buys it which design they like better, so if they do like the redesign, then they can use that, or they can keep the original!
I get how it could be upsetting though, but I do think they have good intentions and just couldn't connect
That’s a great way of looking at it! Thanks
YIPPIEEE QWIZZ UPLOAD
As an artist, i get so upset seeing characters revoked from others because it makes me imagine losing my babies, who Ive worked hard on, taken from me. Im a huge believer that revoking is theft. My toyhouse t.o.s specifically states that once someone buys my design, they get all rights to it as long as i can use it in a portfolio type way. I don’t believe that artists should be allowed to revoke designs once they sell, personally. I wish toyhouse would do something like ban strict t.o.s stuff? Idk maybe thats too harsh but toyhouse is so toxic and i think the lack of moderation there definitely makes it worse.
I'm selling adopts over 10 years now and yeah I definetly needed to change my TOS unfortunately ...because of that rare cases of people being not nice, though I agree with you on all points too.
(I definetly dislike the rule the most - "you can sell them for whatever you want". I was underpricing myself waaay too much in the beginning of my time and sold like an adopt with 20+ artpieces for under 10$ and people are selling them for 100$ now without any added artwork / worth, it's insane q__q).
One rule which is also insane for me and did come to my mind immediatly - is not make any siblings / childrens ouf the design, because I do like to have ships and maybe kids in the future.(I do understand you not wanting to somebody "copy" your design - but you also don't need to make twins / indentical designs to make a sibling).
I'm definetly here for all the character / toyhouse content on your account! So I'm very glad about this video!
i completely agree.. your selling the character. (unless otherwise stated…) i think that should mean the buyer has the same rights as they would if they created the character themselves. the only thing that should be credited is the designer. if not your basically buying the rights to colors on a screen.. you’d be better off buying art of an existing oc instead of a design
honestly if i give my character up my personal opinion is that it’s not my character anymore, i don’t associate with it anymore, it’s none of my concern what they do with it as it’s their own property now but that’s just me 🤷
The only time i took a character back was when the person wanted a refund. I gave a full refund and they still wanted to keep the character anyways. I gotten em back eventually and put them into a raffle. They wanted to keep the character cause i didnt want the character so why would i want it back even tho they received their refund in full
What I did to make sure my terms of service were covering all my bases is find someone with one they allow people to copy off of and one by one each point copy and paste them and reword how I see fit! in my opinion if I sell an adopt I'll specify any commissioned/full made art piece exists for the character that the price can go up! I actually would prefer all my prices to stay at the value I sell them for and not less, not cause blah blah blah but I'd much rather people not lose their moneys worth! Ontop of that if someone COMPLETELY remakes their adopt and I like the old design more maybe I could reach out and pay half the price for the old design back and they keep their new design and I could re-sell or just keep! ^^
I love toyhouse, but some people on there are truly unhinged with their tos. I once saw someone who in their tos said "If you say I can't do something with the design on your tos, by accepting mine you agree that is now null and will not apply to me during my ownership." I was a silly goose and didn't look at their tos before I traded them one of my designs for some of theirs (that's 100% on me) but luckily this person traded the design I gave them off and doesn't own them anymore which is...genuinely a huge relief. I don't know if their "tos" would even hold up if any sort of conflict happened, but it's so strange to me to basically have a clause saying you don't have to follow ANY rules a designer sets. And what about designs obtained secondhand where the designer DIDN'T directly trade to them and agree to those terms???
Really no tos matters unless you’re willing to pay a lawyer to enforce it.
Honestly that sounds like a fun solution to the designers who add all the unnecessary caveats to their TOS 😂
Your TOS says you can take back a character you’ve sold to me if you don’t like what I do with it?
Aha, trap card, my TOS says your TOS is void
@@SynoicusK43 yeah, no, this comment was supposed to be critical of this person. If you dont like a person's tos don't trade for their characters (I wouldn't have traded with this person if I'd actually looked and that's on me), you don't get to just void it. Yes, there are people with unhinged and unreasonable rules, but you don't get to just say "this doesn't apply to me because I said so."
omg only tangentially related but.
what brush are you using for the lineart for this speedpaint?? :0c
Yeah revoking character thing is BS 99.99/100 😊
100% of the belief especially if you’ve paid money for the character, you own it therefore you can do as you please with it. If it’s redesigning them, getting weird art or anything. The creator lost the right to control how you use said character after selling. You will always be the designer of the character but you shouldn’t be so strict on the dos and don’t when that oc is no longer yours
im like in the middle of the video.. and the one thing about "revoking" a design, as a person who makes characters and adoptables, honsetly i actually hate the whole "revoking" thing.. Especially if the rules are SUPER strict..
the only reason for ME doing that, is if the person deletes the design on toyhouse (cause i usually wanna see what their doing with the character, and who owns it) ,never used it and never communicated with me with if they were actually gonna use the design or not. I have only had to revoke one design cause of this, i believe
But this video kinda makes me rethink that slightly.. (I might maybe change that rule..)
Like you can use my designs HOWEVER u want.... You can redesign, resell etc etc theres nothing to exactly to follow.. .. (Theres also "dont give blacklisted people this"... )
So thru out the video i honestly agree with everything.. Like i wouldnt go against everything u think.
(Im so sorry if my typing is bad)
your rules sound really fair!
me personally as sad as it would be if someone deleted the whole page i usually don't do anything about it b/c i have no proof whether or not they're using it elsewhere and i don't want to resell it again or something in case that person genuinely does still want that oc and simply doesn't like toyhouse or something. but i do think that's kind of up to the designer. i'm a multiplatform artist so my designs aren't confined to toyhouse anyway, but i would imagine if you only sell and post on toyhouse it wouldn't be the same
In my opinion, as someone who hid their characters and moved off site (and still loves and uses each and every one of them, just on my hard drive) I would be REALLY upset if someone reuploaded my beloved character because I didnt individually alert them to me hiding my ocs. IMO, don't do this. It's wrong to assume that a character is unloved just because it's deleted from one website. Ask if you have to, because maybe theyll respond and tell you about how they're using the character somewhere else!! and even if you never get a reply, you shouldn't assume it's unloved. I'm glad to hear you're open minded about changing revocation rules, and I hope my perspective helps make a case for why it's not a good idea
@@8MW_ @qwizz honsetly i can agree with the both of you about this.. i might just honsetly say like (ill only revoke w/ perms) or just ask to put a character offsite with comminution with me (so i still know where the character is etc) just so its more fair and not like im stealing away something they got from me even if they still enjoyed that character. this does also change my perspective on “horders” or people who “dont rlly touch/use” designs too.. thanks for sharing both ur opinions tho it helped with my perspective alot better!
(Again sorry for if my writing has mistakes again...)
In my fictional tos, I say it's okay to sell it higher for what you paid for it. Just as long you didn't come to me, planning to resell it, or give me some of the money you got for it if higher than oringal price. Of course, I would think it'd be dependant on the person selling the character. You could also ask for a refund and give back the character to the artist you got it from so they could resell it instead if no extra value was added to it
This is just a personal, unwarranted, opinion; but I think that if I brought something like a design or an “adopt” it’s entirely mine. Like it’s my design. I’d use it like how I would use any of MY designs. I paid real-life “big boy” money for this object. Like, if I brought a blanket from a small business and they decided they didn't like what I was doing with it are they allowed to just take it back?? No.
basically, artists can do what they want and so can their customers
a lot of what non-industry pro's list in their TOS isn't enforceable in law even if you agree to it, it's moral codes with a pinch of (sometimes) genuine stuff, like copyright and refund protection
I know that this like, never happens since we’re talking about internet furries, but hypothetically the artist can legally enforce their T.O.S if there’s evidence the customer agreed to it. The artist automatically owns the copyright, and therefore they can make whatever highly specific restrictions they want. I don’t agree with taking characters back either, but technically they legally could if it was clearly written out in their T.O.S. It wouldn’t surprise me someday to see a petty artist actually try suing someone over this lmao.
artists who try to limit how you should draw a character in a TOS are so annoying. i got a character from a raffle once, of course no one expects to win a raffle, and i went to check their TOS AFTER winning. it said i wasnt allowed to give the characters eyelashes or draw them with a :3/:> face. are u kidding me. i even went and dmed the artist asking if this was a serious TOS rule and they said yes. i regifted that design ASAP. no way in hell youre gonna tell me not to draw a :3 face or give them a basic facial feature because it makes you uncomfortable. if it does that to the point where you dont like seeing people draw it with your designs, then why the hell are you giving away designs in the first place??
long story short check the TOS before entering a raffle because there's a chance you will actually win the character one day and the TOS WILL matter
Where do people usually trade/sell characters? Im quite curious lolol and I loved your drawing together with the video ^^
Toyhou.se is a big site for character trading! But it happens on basically any site that has an art community on it! Thank u!! ❤❤
@Qwizz oh thats cool!
toyhouse and discord mostly
To be frank the idea of buying a character off someone, buying an adoptable, or anything paywalled that feels like something you can merely take inspiration for and do yourself. Idk it just feels silly to me. It is a part of artist internet culture I never understood. My brain always thinks:
Can’t I just make this myself..?
I view it like going to a restaurant. You could take the time to cook at home, or you could pay someone else to make a meal for you. It's also a lot easier to edit a design that was already made than it is to make one from scratch. And of course, there's the people that don't draw or know how to design a good character.
U r themost based artist ive ever seen
i agree with a lot of your points in this video! however as someone who personally knows alot of big creature in the furry adoptable community, alot of these rules ARE there for that .5 percent :( bigger creators get more ppl who misuse their art. i agree that those rules are for the people that dont even read them, but its more for to protect the artist themself. most artists i know dont go after people who break simple tos rules, its more of a "ugh okay" then them harrassing them. the revoking of the design is stupid tho which makes me glad that ive never seen it in anyone tos, but i also dont really branch out from the niche part of the furry fandom im in
16:40 if you already know the artist who is selling the character is going to be that controlling over how much you can customize it, just draw the customized version and post it claiming its your original character and nobody will know because two characters looking similar on the internet is no new occurrence.
Reminds me of the fursuit makers that act like your leasing the fursuit
I didn't even know fursuit makers had tos for their suits.
Honestly I really wanted a character I sold back when they re designed and changed the gender (they were a trans masc character) and gave the character a drawing where they have now have boobs and say the f slur.
I decided it wasn't in my hands anymore though even though I really disliked seeing that. I did block the artist who made that (they aren't the ocs owner anymore since they traded them away)
It made me uncomfortable tbh and I regret selling them. I probably won't sell designs made by me anymore.
It's not something I am comfortable with doing since it feels way too personal to me when a design is made by me.
(It's why I rarely buy characters because I don't feel close to characters I own via purchasing most of the time anyways)
the sensor noise is a bit jarring imo, almost starts like the start of a discord call,, genuinely makes me jump lol
Personally I don’t understand how artists came to the conclusion that selling a character was a service. A character is a product, products don’t have terms of service. If you want to have control over your design, you have to sell rights to use, not ownership.
QWIZZ UPLOAD!!!
Me personally, my terms of service are very simple. Don't make it 100% unrecognizable (I'm fine with redesigns, I redesign 90% of my chars afterall) (as you said, this like... never happens... though...) and don't make NSFW, because im a minor and check on designs i made sometimes
If someone broke these, i wouldn't "revoke" the design -- that feels... weird? -- I'd just blacklist them from buying again.
If the new design is 100% unrecognizable from the original, that would make it an entirely new character, so why should the original TOS apply to it?
@aspthewyvern3622 It matters to me because I'm not sure why you'd buy something just to change it in every way, it kinda feels insulting
SPITTINGG. I had friends that revoked designs they made for me that I had done work for. “Well we’re not friends antmore so ur breaking my tos 🤓” ok bro
For me, I just tend to not take characters back unless if they were free and the person didn’t add anything and they give them to me.
If someone would break my tos idc I’ll watch out for them a bit [depending on what rule they broke] and just let life go on. Not my character anymore so there isn’t anything I can do.
I find it a bit strange with rules how a character can just be taken like at least give them back what they paid you ya know.
I have an issue with entering multiple free raffles and freebies on impulse. One time I’d done a round of them and the next day remembered to check the artists TOS and such incase I didn’t agree with them and had to pull out. Yeah I’d entered some random cute pastel raffle that was by someone who’s TOS said they wouldn’t sell to people with “fake genders/sexualities” ????????? Pulled out so fast
I sold designs to people who ended up being vile “child likers” and despite “child liking” being against my tos.. (the only rules are no “child liking, no “animal liking”, and no “corpse liking”)
I still didn’t revoke them despite missing the design.. personally cause.. what exactly was that design just used in…..?
Theres this designer that I looked up to that blocked me for declining a trade and put me on their blacklist so no longer having rose tinted glasses, there's a lot of weird stuff on there, here's some of it
"Traded character (Art, Trade, Ac)
Cannot be sold unless you've added two or more artworks [You will be confronted if you will sale a traded OC with no additional art] Can be traded, can be gifted or sent back.
Freebie character (Free, Raffle, WTA)
Can NEVER be sold regardless of how much art was added. Cannot be traded unless you've added two or more artworks. Can be gifted or sent back.
Freebies have a 2 month cooldown from the date received => You are not allowed to trade it (in the case you added art) before this cooldown ends. You're still allowed to regift it anytime tho!
TOS violation will lead to my BlackList"
"Results in Blacklisting:..
... 3. Bailing on purchase result in a block, don't offer to just say "I don't want it anymore" or "I can't do it" or the worst one "I decided it's not worth it"." (what I broke)
Also there's a "Do not trade or sell to anyone on my blacklist" and then they don't specify everyone on their blacklist.
Anyways I may or may not have gotten somebody to trade me one of their designs for a few artworks and now she's one of my fav ocs
I love the fact you listed stupid TOS rules and then listed a perfectly valid one (being to back out of and waste their time) and said that's the one you broke. You're the issue dude, clearly backing out of offers and being annoying is going to make them not want to sell to you anymore, they have ZERO reason to believe you won't do it again.
Like sure, there's some pretty good reasons to back out of an offer or whatnot, but they have every right to not want to sell to you, no matter your reason. And no, their shitty TOS can't be your reason, as you should have read that before offering, it's not "no longer having rose-tinted glasses", it's you deciding after trying to buy something that you actually just wanted to be annoying.
And, to add, you're surprised you got blacklisted even though you're saying in this very comment you broke their TOS and then did so AGAIN willingly? Yeah, I dunno who you thought was gonna sit here and think you were somehow in the right. You're worse. If you broke like ANY of the other rules in the TOS, you'd have a case, but you don't have one here, you went around wasting their time and are now mad that they drew a line and said "I don't want you wasting my time anymore" with a blacklisting.
It would have been so much easier for you to just make fun of the actually dumb parts of their TOS in this comment and not cry about personal things you're at fault for.
@karojirai While I do agree with you a lil bit, I like fucking with people. Also there's some stuff I ommited bc I don't like comments being too long, I offered to trade, he chose someone I wasn't willing to trade bc I was trading it to a friend, I explained that, he blocked me and started vague posting about me and said smthn about my response time. And I'm not the only one who agrees not letting ppl back out of trades is a huge red flag, explained my situation, and almost everyone awake at that time agreed that this sucked, then I explained it to my father (Im a bitch cry baby), he agreed that it was stupid. So I was petty and got one of their ocs bc why not. Chill tf out babe, you don't need to be doing all that for a yt comment.
Please lemme know the procreate brush and sensitivity
i do generally agree with this video, but i think the ooonly thing that contradicts my view on this is the hard no on design revocation ever. i do agree that terms like "dont change the design too much or its mine again" are dumb but i think an artist wanting to have a failsafe in the cases of say, the buyer being outed as a bigot or a groomer is reasonable yk? purely because i know i personally wouldnt want my art associated with someone like that, even if the clause ends up being used rarely or not at all, itd be good to have.
I talked about this in the video! Yes I get where you're coming from but I don't like artists giving themselves the power to take a design away like that. What about false claims? Those aren't at all uncommon. Does an innocent person deserve to get their property taken from them on the grounds that someone posted a callout? And yes, while in theory it'd be nice to never have your designs fall into the hands of bad people, and I'm not defending those kinds of people by any means, I think the principle doesn't make sense to me. Because why should you get the power to take property away without compensation because the other person's morals don't align with yours? And again, that's not me saying those things are okay. That's me pointing out that this isn't a clear line and therefore sort of unfair imo. Are you going to make a comprehensive list of all the adjectives that buyers can't associate with without getting their design revoked? "Bigot" means different things to different people. A term like "if you're a bad person ill revoke your design" seems so easy to misuse to me. If you sell a character, it's not yours anymore. That's my opinion. We should be doing background checks before selling to people, not after. Especially on shaky proof.
Most people with common sense aren't going to assume you're best buds with someone or support all their actions because they own a design by you, either. On every site but toyhouse it's kind of hard to even trace it back to you. Yeah, it sucks when someone you don't like owns and is using your design. But the more logical plan of action imo is to just block them and never sell to them again, like some of the other comments have said.
I can list so many potential situations where this could go wrong, versus that ONE case where it might make sense. Why normalize the concept in that context?
- false claims that later get disproven
- based on your individual morals (e.g inner lgbtq discourse) and don't necessarily hurt anyone/warrant stealing their property back and reselling again
- could put MORE negative attention on you than if you just let them keep the design
- the person you resold it to after didn't know about it's past owner, and now THEY are getting associated with the big bad wolf. The only person who profited (twice) in this context is you. Does that sound fair?
Once a brand gets attached to a character it does tend to linger. Who's gonna be the one who has to live with that?
- personal issues that don't warrant stealing property and reselling it again
@@QwizzI do get where you’re coming from, but I do think a artist can be liable to take back a design if they want to, as long as if it were their TOS, and it would’ve been buyer’s choice to still go through with it.
@Carottleamen did you watch the video? Or the section at 6:00? Yeah artists can put whatever they want in their tos but that doesn't make them immune to critique or invalidate anyone's points on the matter. You can do whatever you want, nobody's saying you can't
@@Qwizz Yes, I did watch the full video-there’s no need to get so hostile just because I replied to your comment. I understand and agree that artists aren’t immune to critique for their TOS, and I wasn’t trying to invalidate anyone’s points. My point was more about respecting agreements that buyers choose to accept when proceeding with a purchase.
It’s fair to critique TOS policies, but it’s also fair for an artist to enforce them if they’re transparent about their terms.
As someone who does a lot of adopt stuff. I try to keep my tos as simple as I can. Idc what the hell you do with the design you bought as long as you aren’t using it to push an ideology that harms others (zoos, kid likers, etc etc)
Redesign it, do whatever, i can’t care because yeah i got money and now you’re enjoying it so it’s a win win for us lol
One of my least favorite things about others TOS’s is the whole freebie thing
I have one specific person in mind but they have a tos that even if you pay for comms on a freebie design you’re not allowed to sell it??? I get if it’s just the character with no added art but they’ll blacklist you for selling a free character that again, has paid art which confuses me so much lmao
The character trading scene confuses me, i genuinely don’t get it because another artist I have a few designs from it’s like their designs are only to be traded around. I never see anybody actually draw or get art of those designs before selling them immediately
Only TOS artists should have is "Dont resell for higher price without comissioned art" anything else is unreasonable. That is the rule i had when i used to sell/trade adopts. In my belief no one should ever revoke a design. I dont care about what reason its petty and immature.
unrelated but omori bg music jumpscare /pos