"The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in battle." In my 38 years, I have never heard of this motto. Now, I don't think I will ever forget it.
@@aylbdrmadison1051 Original quote is infinitely better. Evil exists in the world and you cannot "inspire peace" with it. Sometimes battle is unavoidable.
I love the way you explain these things. No gimmicks, no empty promises. Just sound, practical, and reasoned advice. And, LOL at the pedestrian comments. While this is anecdotal, it has been my observation that people who have passion in STEM topics often have a darker sense of humor. I work in technology so I have had mostly that as a sample set.
I saw the octave method and saw right away how it's too slow to find notes. Been learning some of the notes by practicing scales. Then i found your method and brilliant, Started that last night. It make total sense why it works.
Learning the fretboard is like learning multiplication tables. It needs to be done for speed. Any thinking trick slows things down. I can see how visualising an octave shifted pattern on the higher strings can help the learning process, but it won't replace it.
(1) "Every problem has a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong." (2) Here in Tempe, a pedestrian actually got hit by a self-driving car, the first such incident ever. So maybe you need to program your computer correctly? (3) I call the major 3rd between the G and B strings "the Twilight Zone." Basses don't have it. 8-) In fact, the string above the G in a 6-string bass is usually tuned to C, not B, to maintain the (2, 2) pattern. (4) 3:07: technically, the strings are turned, not the fretboard. (5) 6:10: "But you forgot what I was saying ..." -- Frank Zappa
Dr. Zillio, your system is so much easier than the patterns. I can find notes locally with almost instant recall. I'm sure my recall will be second nature in a little while more. It took seconds to learn using your method.
I've played guitar for 20 years and had very few classes on the beginning. I was not taught this method directly, this is what I naturally figured out. And I can really tell you, I was stuck for my whole life, "the octave method" which I did not even knew existed, is bad. I tell you that from experience lol That changed when I started violin 2 years ago and this time, with a teacher. I know exactly what note I am playing on the violin everytime and it's so much better. If you don't believe this video, I can tell you 100% that this octave approach is bad and made me a worse player for my whole life. I'm glad I did not learn violin this way, now it's time to go back to the guitar and figure it out... Don't use this approach, learn the proper way! Thanks for the video!
This video deserves so much more views. I've been trying to practice the octave pattern in 7 year.. Thinking I can use brute force muscle memory. It doesn't work.
I learned all the notes on the fretboard by deciding that the pitches on the lower two strings are for the base player and started using exclusively chords sitting on the higher 4 strings. I didnt plan on learning all the notes. It just sort of happend by accident.
I finger pick quite a bit and use the bottom 3 strings for walking bass lines...you really start to get an appreciation of how to fit bass notes into rhythms and melodies.
~I so love the way you teach us...trying to get as much videos that I can....because music is worth it to me....beginner but will keep on like the lil-engine who could.....thank you so much.🙂💞
I guess that you'd eventually just remember the locations from the octaves, but that method didn't work for me. I came up with my own way that worked wonders, and TZ here had a great video on it (likely the one that pops up). I just learned all arpeggios in C, and the name and location of each note (it took about a week of practice to cement it in my brain). The 1 relative to 3 relative to 5, et cetera. Then the 5 notes that I didn't know were right next to notes that I knew...so I knew them instinctively. This was 2 years ago and I've never forgotten.
I can speak from past personal experience that the Octave Shape is of no use when you're actually playing, unless you're looking for an octave of the note you're already playing.
In a short time the octave system will cause you to memorize where the 1st & 2nd string notes are. I separated the 6th to 3rd octave patterns from the 2nd and 3rd strings.
I made this same mistake. I also made the mistake of memorizing 3 notes per string "patterns" for modes instead of learning and really comprehending how each mode alters a note relative to its parent major or minor scale. The patterns let me shred within a certain mode quite easily, and I thought I was brilliant. Want to play in B Dorian? Just shred through the Dorian pattern and ensure the root note is B. I took it one step further and connected each mode pattern to other mode patterns. Want to shred in B Dorian? Play B Dorian shape starting on B, or play the Phrygian shape starting on C# to stay in Dorian, or the Lydian shape starting on D to stay in Dorian, etc. This lead me to think I had the entire fretboard mastered for all modes.... Then came chord progressions that used borrowed chords (modal interchange) for a single chord within the chord progression(or even just any altered chord) I had no idea how to switch patterns, or which target notes needed to be altered and accented, for the specific borrowed chord - and my entire system fell apart. Now I'm back to basics and even learning to read notation just to break out of the crutch I created. I sure wish I just did it right the first time around.
seductive is the key word, 😆 trying to back out that one is difficult,to good to be true,, brilliant points.knowing notes to progress ideas instead of patterns is rewarding in itself,a little harder path for a better pay off🙏cheers mate
I'm going to boil the whole video down to "the octave method works fine, just do all the work of memorizing it first instead of learning it on the fly"
Personally, I used it to find the notes the first times, but eventually I learned each note in each fret by itself. But, much easier, if you know your 6th string, you can find the same note, 2 octaves higher, in the first string. But i think that any method should work for constructing your knowledge of the fretboard, that finally it should be knowing each note in each string in each fret by itself. At the end, you will understand that each one of them is completely diferent, regardless of its harmonic or melodic implication. In a 24 fret guitar you have 6 diferent E5 to choose, one per string, each one with a diferent colour and posibilities. (sorry for my english) I like your videos, Tomasso, it opens my mind as a teacher.
Master, Nice to see you! I would love to show you how I think/see music, but I am still learning telepathy, so I will try to write everything down! 1) the name of the notes are so confusing to me! Why? Because a C will sound so different, depending on the scale degree it's related and the other notes harmonizing it... 2) I think it takes way longer (the coffee will be cold and the band mates will be gone for a long time) while I am trying to figure out which note is an augmented 4th for a flat B... 3) a major 3rd will always sound like a major 3rd, no matter what is the note name. 4) intervals are always in the same position from the root (or any other base interval), so a minor 7th will be 2 frets before the root, etc... 5) for each different KEY all 12 notes (names) will change their functions... Sometimes C is what I need, sometimes not and sometimes C is even a forbidden note... Too much things to think on the fly! 6) I am very intelligent, BUT I think very slowly. If there are 3 people and only 2 x US$ 100 is dropped on the table... Ok, the money is gone and I am still thinking why someone tossed that money on the table! 7) I just cannot remember the chord position inside a scale... Let's say, an E is a minor chord in the 3rd degree for the C major scale, great... For the G major scale an E will be... 🤔😞😨😭... I don't know... Really... Let me count using my fingers (I will have to stop playing to count my fingers)... The whole set has finished already! Just to become even harder, I don't know the notes inside a chord, specially if the chord changes from major to minor or has a 11th or 13th... Well, I think you got it... It's too much thinking in a very short time... I rather think only in C major, no matter the key of the song, and then transpose everything to the right key (just like using an imaginative CAPO) If you have a solution for it, let me know! If you didn't understand anything I said, let me know either! If you think I should stop playing, say it now, so I don't waste my short life trying something I will never succeed! My best regards from Brazil!
"I am very intelligent, BUT I think very slowly." In this case one solution is to do most of your thinking beforehand i.e. be prepared! :) Is is a simple principle, but the application of it may be difficult to start with, so I suggest a few examples: -Practice such that you intimately know how the 9th sounds on a major chord and what feeling it evokes. Then practice finding the 9th in different contexts while playing in a key. This way when improvising a solo, you don't need to do quick thinking, but rather rely on the in depth thinking you did before. -Learn the general forms of scales. So a major scale would be (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) and a minor scale would be (1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7). After you are familiar with this, the issue of C sounding different in different keys will be less confusing. To build on your statement "a major 3rd will always sound like a major 3rd, no matter what is the note name" - The same works for degrees in a scale. The b3 in a minor key will always function like a b3. Or "the 3rd triad in a natural minor key is always a major chord". There are multiple different exercises that you can go for the above with. Tommaso has his Master Of The Modes course and Complete Chord Mastery course and both are very exercise-oriented from what I hear. "I rather think only in C major, no matter the key of the song, and then transpose everything to the right key (just like using an imaginative CAPO)" Try learning A major or G minor next - And try and avoid thinking "OK in C major this would be...". If I understood your problem right, they should be sufficiently different to make avoiding "thinking in C major" easier, while not having ridiculous amounts of sharps or flats.
@@JereToikka thank you for the tips/directions! I play the guitar for almost 40 years (l am 52 yo) and since the very first time I was trained to think "shapes". When I started to learn music theory I could not think about KEYS, just like piano players HAVE TO, because the guitar allow us to think shapes and move the shapes across the neck. And yes, you are right when you say I think always in C major to avoid all the flats and sharps, and also to not be confused by the scale degree for chord structure. Maybe if I start to play a different instrument, like a piano or saxophone, I would be forced to learn the notes. I am working on learning the 12 major keys and everything else, but I just think it's way harder to find the right notes this way. Tommaso is such a great teacher and I learn a lot watching his classes, but I become really confused when people explain music in a different key but C. Mainly because I have to transpose everything to C, just to compare to other subjects I already know. For example: natural minor compared to the harmonic minor... Only the G becomes G#, but if someone uses a different key like B minor we will have to deal with 5 sharps PLUS a sharp on the 7th degree... It is so hard to me... For short, the note names is not a problem, but how the notes are inserted inside a key.
@@EddieMetal68 I suggest to learn the 12 keys one at a time. So... Choose one. Play it while at the same time saying the note names. Play it while saying the note degrees. Try and all the time resist the temptation to transpose to C and think from there. Get familiar in the ways you know how. After you feel like this is solid, change they key you focus on. The process for one key may take days, weeks or months. But I think it will be more beneficial than trying to "focus on all 12 minor and major keys at the same time" ;)
@@JereToikka in fact I don't think minor, major or modes. I just think intervals. All I need to remember is where the roots are. When I think octaves I see the whole scale at once (all 7 notes). I am not sure, but this kind of knowledge is most useful for theory or music talk than to play the guitar. For me it's like to walk on street and turn a corner. I don't think the number of steps or the name of the stores along the way (every corner will have different stores on the street, so confusing!) Well, I will practice scales and chords by notes, following the circle of fifths. Maybe when I am dead I will know 3 or 4 keys already!
Never heard of the ocave methed. Just learned all the notes by fingerpicking classical from sheet music as opposed to tab, it forces you to learn the fretboard.
I learned technique before knowledge don't go that route, though technique gives flexibility for feeling comfortable in learning ,but leaves you wondering what could have been created before hand,much love and thank you,a little bit later in life myself but hey it's still fun🙃
I think that every newbie needs to just enjoy playing first, so that you actually play. But too many wait too long to delve into theory. I feel that I would have quit 3 decades ago if I started with theory before I could play and change chords/scales at a decent pace. It's what I tell noobs; learn some chords, scales, songs, and bits before doing theory. But maybe what worked for me might not work for all...
Very interesting, I still hope people do not hit pedestrians on purpose :) I have restarted (this time quite seriously) with your method to learn the fretboard. I am almost good with Exercise 1, this time I want to get through the whole thing! I will let you know if it works :)
I know the notes on my guitar really well when using E Standard Tuning, but I don't use that tuning on most of my guitars. When improvising to a jam track that shows the chord progression, I feel I'd rather see "i - iv- V" rather than "e - a - B", for a simple example. I feel its more important to know where the "VI" is in relation to "i" in all different positions than it is to necessarily know where the C major is from the e minor. If I don't transpose the jam track, paying attention to the chords in the video sometimes throws me off. Just a random thought. Maybe it's a different topic.
It is of course important to also know the intervals/degrees in the way you say. But these two things (notes and intervals) are not a substitute for each other. If you practice, they eventually integrate in a seamless "fretboard awareness" - but they have to start as two different cognitive processes.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar I suppose my perspective is mostly from (almost) never playing a guitar tuned to E Standard. Maybe it takes me out of a universal conversation to a certain degree.
I will start off teaching people the octave trick because it builds confidence in the student. Most people are not like us they do not obsess over music and guitar. These students want to see fast results or the will lose confidence and will quit.
Oh, I should post -- I saw that other video a few months ago and started using the technique to learn the notes on the guitar fret -- Somehow I didn't get bored with the exercise and it definitely worked for me. However, for the scenario you provided in THIS video, is this from experience with students trying to calculate note positions starting with the 6th string?
Yes (but not only). It's surprisingly common. Indeed, whenever I see their eyes dart back and forth when they are searching a note, I ask them to spell out their mental process to me... and guess what they tell me? "So the C is here on the 6th string..." :-)
Lol I've been using the octave pattern for a long time .. although for the B string .. I move 2 frets forward and up n I can give my note on the A string
Personally I think best way is combine with your ears too. So when you don't know the fretboard you still can find the note. That's what music is about, right???
The octave pattern is stupid to live by entirely if you use different tunings and not just standard tuning or 4ths tuning. Patterns are not the same for all tunings. You can tune your guitar to a certain tuning and the G and B strings can play a perfect 4th dyad chord shape but sound like a minor 3rd dyad chord. I think it's important to use your ears and to establish an understanding of the sounds you are playing and how to make those sounds in different ways. Really the instrument can be tuned in so many different ways to play in many styles as well as to explore the boundaries of your own sound. There isn't one way or system to do things the right way and it is really up to your own discretion with how you organize yourself on the instrument. I'd think of it more so as a way to sonically understand what you are doing rather than look at it like this is this note here and it repeats just a lil higher here and lower here. With many tunings you will not get that and playing scales will be done differently too. It's up to you to understand the tunings you are in even standard tuning and understand why that sound is coming out from there rather than if you just do this that sound will happen. I say this because you can bend to the note if you are just under it, you can bend up from another note and to the note, you can slide to the to note or from that note. Theres so many things you can do with the note and where its at that once you realize that you can manipulate the same high notes on the lighter strings but played way on the lower notes using different techniques you know that using that pattern is very elementary and it shows how much you do not still understand about the instrument. I am not saying it makes you stupid but I am saying that it closes you off to a world of possibilities. I am not saying this to sound contrived or to obfuscate anyone either by saying any of this but there is a whole lot to do and once you figure out what there is and how to do some of those amazing things you will understand your freedom as a guitarist. You shouldn't feel trapped on guitar because it's one of the freest instruments in the world. It can take years to understand just a lil bit of what you can do already while the instrument is already having all the answers shown in plain site. Its just up to you and how you can understand all it has to show you really and how your fingers touch and influence the sound. and if you use a pick there are countless other things you can do too. Don't ever feel afraid of the guitar too. If you really love playing this instrument you will be able to unravel things on it in no time. It just takes understanding that you can really play this or that or like this or that. Every guitarist deserves to know that they can too so don't let yourself be defeated if maybe you don't understand something on the instrument because one day it will come to you in your playing and will stay with you for life. This instrument really is a blessing.
Hi :) Complete Chord Mastery is not a book, but a video course. Find it here: www.musictheoryforguitar.com/chords-and-harmony-guitar-lessons.html , for questions write me at tommaso@musictheoryforguitar.com
@@christopherheckman7957 Is the line all the way to the left supposed to be fret 1? Because if so then yeah you're playing an F#, but if it's supposed to be the nut then you're playing fret 1
![This Is Why MODES Are So Confusing To Guitar Players [Music Theory]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8z_MwotLh1M/mqdefault.jpg)
![TRITONE Substitution Vs AUGMENTED 6th: What's The Difference? [Music Theory]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pUuo8CQNg5k/mqdefault.jpg)
"The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in battle."
In my 38 years, I have never heard of this motto. Now, I don't think I will ever forget it.
Very true. And I would add to that: the more you inspire peace, the less you inspire battle.
@@aylbdrmadison1051 Original quote is infinitely better. Evil exists in the world and you cannot "inspire peace" with it. Sometimes battle is unavoidable.
I memorized where all the B|C E|F junctions are and the rest fell into place
I love the way you explain these things. No gimmicks, no empty promises. Just sound, practical, and reasoned advice.
And, LOL at the pedestrian comments. While this is anecdotal, it has been my observation that people who have passion in STEM topics often have a darker sense of humor. I work in technology so I have had mostly that as a sample set.
Thanks :) And I think you are spot on with the dark humor.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar for some, it's not whether the pedestrian deserves it, but the point value.
"Whether they deserve or not"? 😂 subtle but humorous
"they might have their reasons"? now that's hilarious!!!!🤣😂🤣😂
Tommaso-marvellous educator and owner of a wonderfully wry sense of humour. 👏👏👏👏👏 Keep ‘em (both) coming.
I saw the octave method and saw right away how it's too slow to find notes. Been learning some of the notes by practicing scales. Then i found your method and brilliant, Started that last night. It make total sense why it works.
I taught myself using the octave pattern. Unlearning that has really sucked. Learning the fretboard through other means has skyrocketed my playing
Good reminder. Will be on the lookout for this in the future when teaching students :)
I absolutely agree with you. I found this trick myself and thought it's useful. However, its only very limited useful as I realized later.
"I'm not talking about the people who hit pedestrians..."
based af
"It is a non-local process" Ah, theoretical physics in music. lol
Learning the fretboard is like learning multiplication tables. It needs to be done for speed.
Any thinking trick slows things down. I can see how visualising an octave shifted pattern on the higher strings can help the learning process, but it won't replace it.
(1) "Every problem has a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong."
(2) Here in Tempe, a pedestrian actually got hit by a self-driving car, the first such incident ever. So maybe you need to program your computer correctly?
(3) I call the major 3rd between the G and B strings "the Twilight Zone." Basses don't have it. 8-) In fact, the string above the G in a 6-string bass is usually tuned to C, not B, to maintain the (2, 2) pattern.
(4) 3:07: technically, the strings are turned, not the fretboard.
(5) 6:10: "But you forgot what I was saying ..." -- Frank Zappa
"Every problem has a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong." ... oh yes ...
"the 2, 2 pattern".
A.k.a. tuned in 5ths/4ths like the circle of.
Very true my friend!
Thanks for this tutorial.. 🎸
the best method to learn fretboard for me at least I found in Mick Goodrick`s book "Advanced Guitarist"
Dr. Zillio, your system is so much easier than the patterns. I can find notes locally with almost instant recall. I'm sure my recall will be second nature in a little while more. It took seconds to learn using your method.
1:44 "In the same way when i say that you should not eat pedestrians when you're driving"
Your version is funnier. I should have thought of that...
"The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in battle." That's excellent! Thank you, Tommaso!
I've played guitar for 20 years and had very few classes on the beginning. I was not taught this method directly, this is what I naturally figured out. And I can really tell you, I was stuck for my whole life, "the octave method" which I did not even knew existed, is bad. I tell you that from experience lol
That changed when I started violin 2 years ago and this time, with a teacher. I know exactly what note I am playing on the violin everytime and it's so much better. If you don't believe this video, I can tell you 100% that this octave approach is bad and made me a worse player for my whole life. I'm glad I did not learn violin this way, now it's time to go back to the guitar and figure it out...
Don't use this approach, learn the proper way! Thanks for the video!
I really enjoy your humour and fun and deep music knowledge.....
This video deserves so much more views. I've been trying to practice the octave pattern in 7 year.. Thinking I can use brute force muscle memory. It doesn't work.
I learned all the notes on the fretboard by deciding that the pitches on the lower two strings are for the base player and started using exclusively chords sitting on the higher 4 strings.
I didnt plan on learning all the notes. It just sort of happend by accident.
I finger pick quite a bit and use the bottom 3 strings for walking bass lines...you really start to get an appreciation of how to fit bass notes into rhythms and melodies.
~I so love the way you teach us...trying to get as much videos that I can....because music is worth it to me....beginner but will keep on like the lil-engine who could.....thank you so much.🙂💞
I guess that you'd eventually just remember the locations from the octaves, but that method didn't work for me.
I came up with my own way that worked wonders, and TZ here had a great video on it (likely the one that pops up).
I just learned all arpeggios in C, and the name and location of each note (it took about a week of practice to cement it in my brain). The 1 relative to 3 relative to 5, et cetera.
Then the 5 notes that I didn't know were right next to notes that I knew...so I knew them instinctively.
This was 2 years ago and I've never forgotten.
I can speak from past personal experience that the Octave Shape is of no use when you're actually playing, unless you're looking for an octave of the note you're already playing.
In a short time the octave system will cause you to memorize where the 1st & 2nd string notes are.
I separated the 6th to 3rd octave patterns from the 2nd and 3rd strings.
I learned all notes on the fretboard some 10 years ago thanks to the Fretboard warrior aplication.
I made this same mistake. I also made the mistake of memorizing 3 notes per string "patterns" for modes instead of learning and really comprehending how each mode alters a note relative to its parent major or minor scale. The patterns let me shred within a certain mode quite easily, and I thought I was brilliant. Want to play in B Dorian? Just shred through the Dorian pattern and ensure the root note is B.
I took it one step further and connected each mode pattern to other mode patterns. Want to shred in B Dorian? Play B Dorian shape starting on B, or play the Phrygian shape starting on C# to stay in Dorian, or the Lydian shape starting on D to stay in Dorian, etc. This lead me to think I had the entire fretboard mastered for all modes.... Then came chord progressions that used borrowed chords (modal interchange) for a single chord within the chord progression(or even just any altered chord) I had no idea how to switch patterns, or which target notes needed to be altered and accented, for the specific borrowed chord - and my entire system fell apart. Now I'm back to basics and even learning to read notation just to break out of the crutch I created. I sure wish I just did it right the first time around.
seductive is the key word, 😆 trying to back out that one is difficult,to good to be true,, brilliant points.knowing notes to progress ideas instead of patterns is rewarding in itself,a little harder path for a better pay off🙏cheers mate
I'm going to boil the whole video down to "the octave method works fine, just do all the work of memorizing it first instead of learning it on the fly"
Personally, I used it to find the notes the first times, but eventually I learned each note in each fret by itself. But, much easier, if you know your 6th string, you can find the same note, 2 octaves higher, in the first string. But i think that any method should work for constructing your knowledge of the fretboard, that finally it should be knowing each note in each string in each fret by itself. At the end, you will understand that each one of them is completely diferent, regardless of its harmonic or melodic implication. In a 24 fret guitar you have 6 diferent E5 to choose, one per string, each one with a diferent colour and posibilities. (sorry for my english) I like your videos, Tomasso, it opens my mind as a teacher.
Master, Nice to see you!
I would love to show you how I think/see music, but I am still learning telepathy, so I will try to write everything down!
1) the name of the notes are so confusing to me! Why? Because a C will sound so different, depending on the scale degree it's related and the other notes harmonizing it...
2) I think it takes way longer (the coffee will be cold and the band mates will be gone for a long time) while I am trying to figure out which note is an augmented 4th for a flat B...
3) a major 3rd will always sound like a major 3rd, no matter what is the note name.
4) intervals are always in the same position from the root (or any other base interval), so a minor 7th will be 2 frets before the root, etc...
5) for each different KEY all 12 notes (names) will change their functions... Sometimes C is what I need, sometimes not and sometimes C is even a forbidden note... Too much things to think on the fly!
6) I am very intelligent, BUT I think very slowly. If there are 3 people and only 2 x US$ 100 is dropped on the table... Ok, the money is gone and I am still thinking why someone tossed that money on the table!
7) I just cannot remember the chord position inside a scale... Let's say, an E is a minor chord in the 3rd degree for the C major scale, great... For the G major scale an E will be... 🤔😞😨😭... I don't know... Really... Let me count using my fingers (I will have to stop playing to count my fingers)... The whole set has finished already!
Just to become even harder, I don't know the notes inside a chord, specially if the chord changes from major to minor or has a 11th or 13th...
Well, I think you got it...
It's too much thinking in a very short time...
I rather think only in C major, no matter the key of the song, and then transpose everything to the right key (just like using an imaginative CAPO)
If you have a solution for it, let me know!
If you didn't understand anything I said, let me know either!
If you think I should stop playing, say it now, so I don't waste my short life trying something I will never succeed!
My best regards from Brazil!
"I am very intelligent, BUT I think very slowly."
In this case one solution is to do most of your thinking beforehand i.e. be prepared! :)
Is is a simple principle, but the application of it may be difficult to start with, so I suggest a few examples:
-Practice such that you intimately know how the 9th sounds on a major chord and what feeling it evokes. Then practice finding the 9th in different contexts while playing in a key. This way when improvising a solo, you don't need to do quick thinking, but rather rely on the in depth thinking you did before.
-Learn the general forms of scales. So a major scale would be (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) and a minor scale would be (1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7). After you are familiar with this, the issue of C sounding different in different keys will be less confusing. To build on your statement "a major 3rd will always sound like a major 3rd, no matter what is the note name" - The same works for degrees in a scale. The b3 in a minor key will always function like a b3. Or "the 3rd triad in a natural minor key is always a major chord".
There are multiple different exercises that you can go for the above with. Tommaso has his Master Of The Modes course and Complete Chord Mastery course and both are very exercise-oriented from what I hear.
"I rather think only in C major, no matter the key of the song, and then transpose everything to the right key (just like using an imaginative CAPO)"
Try learning A major or G minor next - And try and avoid thinking "OK in C major this would be...".
If I understood your problem right, they should be sufficiently different to make avoiding "thinking in C major" easier, while not having ridiculous amounts of sharps or flats.
@@JereToikka thank you for the tips/directions!
I play the guitar for almost 40 years (l am 52 yo) and since the very first time I was trained to think "shapes". When I started to learn music theory I could not think about KEYS, just like piano players HAVE TO, because the guitar allow us to think shapes and move the shapes across the neck.
And yes, you are right when you say I think always in C major to avoid all the flats and sharps, and also to not be confused by the scale degree for chord structure.
Maybe if I start to play a different instrument, like a piano or saxophone, I would be forced to learn the notes.
I am working on learning the 12 major keys and everything else, but I just think it's way harder to find the right notes this way.
Tommaso is such a great teacher and I learn a lot watching his classes, but I become really confused when people explain music in a different key but C. Mainly because I have to transpose everything to C, just to compare to other subjects I already know. For example: natural minor compared to the harmonic minor... Only the G becomes G#, but if someone uses a different key like B minor we will have to deal with 5 sharps PLUS a sharp on the 7th degree...
It is so hard to me...
For short, the note names is not a problem, but how the notes are inserted inside a key.
@@EddieMetal68 I suggest to learn the 12 keys one at a time. So...
Choose one.
Play it while at the same time saying the note names.
Play it while saying the note degrees.
Try and all the time resist the temptation to transpose to C and think from there.
Get familiar in the ways you know how.
After you feel like this is solid, change they key you focus on.
The process for one key may take days, weeks or months. But I think it will be more beneficial than trying to "focus on all 12 minor and major keys at the same time" ;)
@@JereToikka in fact I don't think minor, major or modes. I just think intervals. All I need to remember is where the roots are. When I think octaves I see the whole scale at once (all 7 notes). I am not sure, but this kind of knowledge is most useful for theory or music talk than to play the guitar.
For me it's like to walk on street and turn a corner. I don't think the number of steps or the name of the stores along the way (every corner will have different stores on the street, so confusing!)
Well, I will practice scales and chords by notes, following the circle of fifths. Maybe when I am dead I will know 3 or 4 keys already!
Never heard of the ocave methed. Just learned all the notes by fingerpicking classical from sheet music as opposed to tab, it forces you to learn the fretboard.
I learned technique before knowledge don't go that route, though technique gives flexibility for feeling comfortable in learning ,but leaves you wondering what could have been created before hand,much love and thank you,a little bit later in life myself but hey it's still fun🙃
I think that every newbie needs to just enjoy playing first, so that you actually play. But too many wait too long to delve into theory.
I feel that I would have quit 3 decades ago if I started with theory before I could play and change chords/scales at a decent pace.
It's what I tell noobs; learn some chords, scales, songs, and bits before doing theory. But maybe what worked for me might not work for all...
I agree
I would smash the like button even if I didn't like the video.
Very interesting, I still hope people do not hit pedestrians on purpose :) I have restarted (this time quite seriously) with your method to learn the fretboard. I am almost good with Exercise 1, this time I want to get through the whole thing! I will let you know if it works :)
So it’s decent for identifying a note if you have the time to think about it, but not very good for instantaneous recall?
I know the notes on my guitar really well when using E Standard Tuning, but I don't use that tuning on most of my guitars. When improvising to a jam track that shows the chord progression, I feel I'd rather see "i - iv- V" rather than "e - a - B", for a simple example. I feel its more important to know where the "VI" is in relation to "i" in all different positions than it is to necessarily know where the C major is from the e minor.
If I don't transpose the jam track, paying attention to the chords in the video sometimes throws me off. Just a random thought. Maybe it's a different topic.
It is of course important to also know the intervals/degrees in the way you say. But these two things (notes and intervals) are not a substitute for each other. If you practice, they eventually integrate in a seamless "fretboard awareness" - but they have to start as two different cognitive processes.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar I suppose my perspective is mostly from (almost) never playing a guitar tuned to E Standard. Maybe it takes me out of a universal conversation to a certain degree.
Not any problem, just have to play bass guitar or violin ;)
Anyway, I learned a lot from your videos . thanks for it
I will start off teaching people the octave trick because it builds confidence in the student.
Most people are not like us they do not obsess over music and guitar.
These students want to see fast results or the will lose confidence and will quit.
😂 😂 Funny and great video.
Some pedestrian is lucky to be alive given the seething anger Tom clearly still has towards them 😂
Hey, I'm an occasional pedestrian too! :)
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar it’s hard work playing a guitar inside your car 🚗 😂
@@Xplora213 It's hard work, but somebody has to do it! :)
Oh, I should post -- I saw that other video a few months ago and started using the technique to learn the notes on the guitar fret -- Somehow I didn't get bored with the exercise and it definitely worked for me. However, for the scenario you provided in THIS video, is this from experience with students trying to calculate note positions starting with the 6th string?
Yes (but not only). It's surprisingly common. Indeed, whenever I see their eyes dart back and forth when they are searching a note, I ask them to spell out their mental process to me... and guess what they tell me? "So the C is here on the 6th string..." :-)
You are one funny fellow!
Lol I've been using the octave pattern
for a long time .. although for the B string .. I move 2 frets forward and up n I can give my note on the A string
~Do you also teach ukulele? Trying to learn both.
Personally I think best way is combine with your ears too. So when you don't know the fretboard you still can find the note.
That's what music is about, right???
I use octives, but I also just memorize the notes.
octave patterns are good to a certain point,but also must be reworked into a phrase and sentence,modes should be called moods lol😃
The octave pattern is stupid to live by entirely if you use different tunings and not just standard tuning or 4ths tuning. Patterns are not the same for all tunings. You can tune your guitar to a certain tuning and the G and B strings can play a perfect 4th dyad chord shape but sound like a minor 3rd dyad chord. I think it's important to use your ears and to establish an understanding of the sounds you are playing and how to make those sounds in different ways. Really the instrument can be tuned in so many different ways to play in many styles as well as to explore the boundaries of your own sound. There isn't one way or system to do things the right way and it is really up to your own discretion with how you organize yourself on the instrument. I'd think of it more so as a way to sonically understand what you are doing rather than look at it like this is this note here and it repeats just a lil higher here and lower here. With many tunings you will not get that and playing scales will be done differently too. It's up to you to understand the tunings you are in even standard tuning and understand why that sound is coming out from there rather than if you just do this that sound will happen. I say this because you can bend to the note if you are just under it, you can bend up from another note and to the note, you can slide to the to note or from that note. Theres so many things you can do with the note and where its at that once you realize that you can manipulate the same high notes on the lighter strings but played way on the lower notes using different techniques you know that using that pattern is very elementary and it shows how much you do not still understand about the instrument. I am not saying it makes you stupid but I am saying that it closes you off to a world of possibilities. I am not saying this to sound contrived or to obfuscate anyone either by saying any of this but there is a whole lot to do and once you figure out what there is and how to do some of those amazing things you will understand your freedom as a guitarist. You shouldn't feel trapped on guitar because it's one of the freest instruments in the world. It can take years to understand just a lil bit of what you can do already while the instrument is already having all the answers shown in plain site. Its just up to you and how you can understand all it has to show you really and how your fingers touch and influence the sound. and if you use a pick there are countless other things you can do too. Don't ever feel afraid of the guitar too. If you really love playing this instrument you will be able to unravel things on it in no time. It just takes understanding that you can really play this or that or like this or that. Every guitarist deserves to know that they can too so don't let yourself be defeated if maybe you don't understand something on the instrument because one day it will come to you in your playing and will stay with you for life. This instrument really is a blessing.
Whether they deserve it or not😂
Salu2!!
M parece muy interesante el libro de dominio de acordes q es lo q quiero aprender
Hi :) Complete Chord Mastery is not a book, but a video course. Find it here: www.musictheoryforguitar.com/chords-and-harmony-guitar-lessons.html , for questions write me at tommaso@musictheoryforguitar.com
Brilliant
Che lo meritino o meno...LOL
Quanto faccio battute Italiane in ambito internazionale le persone vanno in cortocircuito LOL
what the hell??? at 0:21
2:27 "We are at the fifth fret"
*draws a dot on the first fret*
That's the 5th, trust me :) (I just didn't draw the first 3-4 frets)
Actually, that should have been "the second fret" ...
@@christopherheckman7957 It's closer to the first fret tho
@@Wind-nj5xz If you hold the string at the position he marked, you're playing an F#. That's the second fret.
@@christopherheckman7957 Is the line all the way to the left supposed to be fret 1? Because if so then yeah you're playing an F#, but if it's supposed to be the nut then you're playing fret 1
Yeah, these pedestrians... they make our lives a libving hell. :-) Bruhahahaha...