I work as a live audio engineer. To everyone talking about loudness at clubs or festivals - that is, through a PA of some kind - transients are important. I get so sick of hearing tracks that are so limited that the kick and snare are just smears of sound with no actual punch. The way to sound good through a speaker is to move air appropriately. All speakers DO is move air. If everything is as loud as your kick and snare then your track won't "bounce". No one will feel the kick or snare as a physical thing. They just disappear into the rest of the track. They become a louder smear of sound in a constant assault with no actual rhythm, because rhythm is created by dynamics. It's not rocket surgery.
I wonder if Club Mixes were ever remade for exactly this reason. To get the club air movement levels optimized instead of the "play it in the car" optimized mix for the regular studios.
Limited signals could really kill speaker drivers and even amps. Especially in a live situation I never understood people that wanted loud masters (or FOH for this reason), most DJs for example. You have this high performance PA which could easily handle transients way above specs without any issues - if you need loudness: Theres input gain, followed by a volume fader, followed by a master level...
I dont care about loudness wars. I care about tools. This thing is an excellent tool. The lack of distortion while making a sausage out of dynamic material is so awesome. You can use it in series with another compressor, where you get your flavor from that device and then use this one to make that sound into something that is very easy to set-and-forget in the context of a full mix. Think drum rooms. Its amazing.
Hi Wyste! This is a crazy plug in! I think for people who are doing very organic music and need an easy way to dial in a way to boost level to compete with incredibly smashed music! For music that's already smashed, I agree with you, I wouldn't necessary immediately reach for a tool like this, although this is a great tool!
I like that even though you clearly have a strong opinion on this type of plugin, you are still able to go to the task of examining this plugin with an open and curious mind, and actually speak positively about the things in it that you find positive
Thank you for actually trying out gear on camera live exactly how we mixing engineers & producers do it, fiddling with the controls & just using our ears!
People that only listen to music on streaming platforms: "Why are we caring about loudness if streaming services have loudness normalization?" People that (used to before Covid) go out to clubs: "You need to get out more"
Okay. Let me explain. Streaky, the mastering engineer for Adele and Ed Sheeran, spoke about how literally zero professional clients of his, big labels etc want anything less than between -8lufs to -9lufs. He explains that the reason why it's going to continue and why its the only way the high level guys want it is because the crush is literally what makes the pop track sound the way it does. It's more about the -8lufs being the SOUND. He says it's a very different sound from -14lufs even if its normalized to the same thing. The -14lufs will never sound as full or "finished" as the -8lufs And I agree with him, I've had a lot of chance to test it. Even if its being turned down, you're not doing it for anything else other than to actually get the "sound" of crush. Its just what actual pop music sounds like. If you want your track to sound the same as the billboard tracks, and what the consumer is USED TO, in sound, then... you'll push it to -8lufs to get the SOUND
I do a lot of audio for adverts and corporate movies. I always want to add that thick sound which I make with a lot of compressors, saturators, limiters, multiband limiters. All subtle in but it changes the overall sound. It sounds to weak without it.
I don't have enough thumbs to rate this plugin. Finally, a plugin that can tone-shape and control dynamics without requiring 5,000 knobs and hours of trial and error. What a well-designed interface with responsive algorithms that simply sound musical. Excellent - definitely not snake oil!
PERCIEVED loudness does matter though. Generally you get this with upper harmonics in the loudest perceived frequency range. You CAN make mixes SEEM louder by adding these harmonics, while still keeping the actual LUFS in the range of streaming services. This plugin seems to kinda do that.
Not really, most of the loudness analyser uses a frequency response that boosts the high frequencies so if you're increasing the higher frequencies volume, the loudness analyser will pull down the overall level of your track. (More info => search for "K-Weighting filter curve" or something like that) The LUFS norm is smarter than you would expect :)
@@PixalizOfficial yeah, but at least spotify can be tricked - or at least have been possible earlier this year, late last year. i did get a lot promos from majors where things around 2,5-5k-ish (and a bit above) was lifted up to a point it was unpleasant to listen to even on headphones and those got played louder in spotify. (then again spotify has not been using ebu r128 completely as far i've read - could be wrong nowadays though)
I am absolutely on your side. About 30 years ago, when working with Ronald Prent on a couple of albums (and have Bob Ludwig master them), he already predicted the loudness war. He taught me to maintain the average line. I'm deeply grateful for that.
The plugin gives that commercial radio station sound. It reminds me of early 2000’s productions in what it does. Glad that era is over. I’d prefer early 90’s loudness levels any day.
Colin, can you elaborate a bit more please about why this plugin does not fit your mastering and mix chain? I have little experience with mixing and mastering limiters (currently I almost always use Ozone suite for my demos), but I want to educate myself about other (and probably better) alternatives.
Games still use maximized audio for their assets. Up until this year people would still go out to listen to music in clubs and festivals, so the quest for loudness still exists.
Watch Dan Worrall's video about loudness and the video he made about DJ's wanting loud masters. There really is no good reason except personal preference to want to crush your mix
I made a decision a while ago to avoid depending on "one dial" or "ultra easy" plugins to shape my sound. The truth is if you really try hard to learn about relative balancing, EQ, compression, saturation, and most importantly you respect and shape dynamics properly, then these kinds of tools become apparent that they are for people who want a quick and easy solution without understanding what is involved. My mastering chain involves minimal EQ adjustments to compensate for low and high end summing, glue compression to shape the overall transients to their final maximum potential, and Pro L2 to crank the LUFS somewhere between -9 to -14db. Since Pro L2 lets you hear the distortion applied from the limiting, you can tell precisely when enough is enough. It's also great to monitor the Integrated LUFS over the duration of the song to ensure a consistent perceived loudness between difference song parts. One thing I have learnt as my audio engineering has improved is there are no shortcuts or magic dials, it's knowledge and skill combined with patience and taste. You need to get it right in the mix, limiting is simple after that.
I guess you have to remember when loudness war startet! It was the advertisement industries that liked to stand out "against" the normal radio/tv show audio to gain more recognition for their customers. So who followed this bad habit? right! The artist management. Putting all this attitude towards possible more record sales. Since now when the complete audio market start to liberate itself by self distributing artists (and also this spotify and youtube thing by turning the volume down). The Musicians can now focus more and more to bring back the "emotional" sides of music where dynamics are very important for. So also because the "normal customer" now get bored and annoyed by loud advertisement. Its now clear for the ad-companys to step back because loud avertisment doesnt fit the brand anymore in sense of positive recognition. So clearly we followed the wrong prophet by putting our music to its max (in loudness volume). But now we have a total wrong trained/conditioned audience waiting for the loud song to hit else their is something wrong unprofessional etc. you called it in your video.
As far as I've noticed, low quality and low volume playback are where the overall loudness of the track really makes a huge difference. If you have the TV or radio turned on for some background noise, or you're at work surrounded by loud machines or a bunch of people and you just want to listen to something on your cheap Bluetooth speaker, the delicate details of your music might be inaudible and the dynamic range becomes irrelevant because you can't really hear it. That's why for instance pop music goes for that typical overly compressed loudness; you can bet it will sound roughly the same everywhere. Quality often comes *after* audibility when you're not in a controlled environment.
Unfortunately for most of my work, my clients don’t want a lot of dynamics. They want an aggressive, up front sound the entire way through. It can be a little maddening when a client gives me notes saying “do you think the intro could be louder” or something to that affect
I have a unique use case for this very plug. When preparing single drumhits in high resolution for old samplers in 12bit or lower, you want to minimize the bitnoise of low level audio and instead use the ADSR for sculpturing the sound. So, Ursa does not smash the transients, but still lifts up the tails, and when you do that before resamplibg to low bit audio you mask the bitnoise vere effectively. Yes, it is an extreme use case, but I have looked for years, and not found anything this smooth. Zero-crossing limiters does do a similar trick, but they destroy the transients when applying around 50dB of compression to a normalized sound. Ursa does not.
...but look out for truepeaks! It can do some ugly TP if pressed to the max, so keep a Fabfilter Pro L2 after, to grap the TP-spikes, or at least have control over them.
"WHY are we still doing THIS?" 1.- Because CDs, vinyls and physical media are still being released. People still download mp3's and listen to them in not loudness compensated enviroments. 2.- In Spotify (and I guess in other platforms as well) you can disable audio normalization. I do this because I like to listen to music the way it is. I wouldn't like my music to sound tiny when people do this. My oppinion is that eventhough I don't like to blast the loudness on my own tracks, music still needs some loudness maximizing. There's no need for loudness competition, just to add the right amount of loudness.
@@DM-hm4us As regards to RUclips normalization algorythm, I feel it doesn't do the job because other videos still sound louder or quieter. I still have to compensate everytime another video starts, so it's useless. The only thing it does is lower the loudness on loud mastered songs, while in videos where someone speaks, or where there are many gaps where there's no sound, the volume is even louder.
I just A/B'd this with my go-to limiter...and I kept matching LUFS while testing settings between the 2 plugins. The TDR Limiter 6 GE kicks this one's butt lol...it's so good that it makes Boost's coloration and squashing of transients really evident and definitely audible. The only reason this plugin will sell well and become relevant is for artistic level consumers who want to keep things organic and do everything themselves, or for professional engineers who aren't actual, legitimate mastering engineers, who want an easy way to auto-pilot making a track commercially competitive. For these applications, it's GREAT, so I'm in no way bashing the plugin....it's actually really cool technology. It's basically a Waves OneKnob plugin to achieve amateur quality mastering loudness.
but tdr limiter 6 is like a whole plugin chain with like 20 knobs you have to figure out can we have plugins for making things sound alright together quickly so we can go back to *actually writing music* instead of slightly adjusting gain settings for 12 hours
I just wish today's artists would spend more time creating better music instead of constantly trying to make their mixes louder. Loudness won't cover up a shitty song.
It's so true. I like older music from the 70, 80, 90, some others too. I have to lower my volume at times, because I don't want to disturb the neighbors. I just moved out of a place where a neighbor plaid their music at 5:00 am until 12:00 midnight. So this loudness is not good for anyone trying to rest at all.
I think even though audio is compensated, “loudness” still matters or at least the illusion of loudness. If a song is exported at like -10 to -5 LUFS even though Spotify will reduce it to -14 it still retains the “illusion” of loudness from the energy of the original.
I'm going to give this thing a try, because I can see *track* level use cases for it - e.g. as an alternative to a basic gain plugin on an inconsistent vocal. Possibly as a shortcut around an extensive gain/compander automation session, in the editing phase, rather than as an output bus treatment.
upgrading our bit depth will also increase the dynamic range and headroom, even if it gets compressed it will sound better, and plugins will have more headroom as well, if they dont already have double precision.
I'm boosting the loudness because I heard one of my tracks in a spotify playlist once (mastered to -12db LUFS) and it sounded so much quieter and weaker than all the other tracks. It isn't hard for me to push most of my tracks to -8 or even -6 during the chorus due to the way I mix, so that's what I do.
I'd personally use this as a production tool instead of a mastering tool. I think it would do a great job of glueing and fattening up a drum mix or bringing out characteristics in individual samples or instruments.
You can use this in a live band performing. You can use studio one. This has a latency low enough for studio one to work in live show mode. This plugin is like a channel strip, drive, gain, compressor and limiter
The typical listener doesn't know why a pop song sounds the way it does. They just know if your song sounds like a pop song or not. The typical pop song is LOUD. So if that's the genre you're going for, you're going to have to be creative about the way you use loudness. I personally think the Billie Eilish team did a good job of this.
For club music it is essential to reach -6dB RMS which is the standard limiter, a very dynamic volume produces pumping. This plugin is great for electronic and pop music. I can easily compare it with Bettermaker Limiter.
"WHY are we still doing THIS" - one the few simple questions that when asked honestly and answered correctly, can truly help to make the world a better place :) Good work, as usual, my friend!!! PS - in this context, "better world", I think, would be roughly equivalent to the choice of "more dynamic range in musical recordings". CHEERS!
It's a psychoacoustics thing. Once things are loud, return to dynamic content at lower volume is difficult to accept by the (damaged) hearing/brain. I hear you btw, i hate loudness. Unfortunately, there's still a lot of loud stuff being made. It's sometimes sad ... when I have to delete airplay submitted tracks to preserve the quality of our show/podcast. Some pretty big music talents have gone wasted due to their bad mastering results. I will not mention any names ;-) Thanks for this video, well done! greetings, Cyril.
The Compensation of the platforms don't work. Or LUFS don't work. I don't know. What I found. The more I compress my tracks with a limiter, the louder they sound on RUclips compared to less compressed ones. I've tested this many times. The loudness war is not over.
Yeah, I've also experienced that. I've heard a lot about streaming services compensating for loudness and whatever, but when I upload my trash ass sounding tracks through distrokid they still sound waaaay lower than professional tracks (at least on apple music)
Thats because youtube doesnt apply its own limiting, the idea here is that spotify will lower the volume in overcompressed tracks and apply an aggressive brickwall limiter to push softer music into -14 LUFS regardless of how that sounds (thats why youd rather do it yourself in a good master) while youtube just reduces the volume of louder tracks, spotify does limit those that are lower The percieved loudness can come even from more compressed music, like if you put a fast paced intense dubstep song or industrial it will probably appear louder in the same luf values vecause psychoacoustically your brain interprets the transients of electronic music, the compressed distorted sound and certain EQ as louder Another reason is that maybe you didnt have an even -14LUF value continously throughout your song because you wanted more dynamic range like with the intro or something, some mixers will reduce the dynamic range with fadering automations to make it sound more even and maybe the algorithm doesnt pick it up as a compressor, just like how you sometimes will send fader automation into the clip gain automation to make the vocal more even without it being really compressed, and then you can apply a compreasor to glue the EQ etc
As a broadcast engineer we use compression with equipment such as the Orban Optimod to maintain legal levels. In the early days of FM the louder sounding stations would grab listeners from competing stations more often by sounding powerful. Something learned however is too much compression loses dynamics and causes listener fatigue. It's a delicate balance to be powerful, within your allowed modulation and still have music people could listen to for hours. Now fast forward. Most modern music are so over compressed that the waveform looks like a brick wall without any dynamics whatsoever. I play that in the air, which then runs through the optimod and you are pumping out nothing but listener fatigue. I wish recording engineers would put the music back into music. Back to basics, please!
As an audio editor, Boost's ultra-transparent limiting would be ideal for dialing in vocal levels for a podcast. In my musical workflow, that same transparent limiting would be used for tonal shaping on an individual channel (guitar, acoustic piano, Rhodes, Wurli, snare drum), or perhaps drum bus. Devious Machines might imply that this is a master effect, but I think I wouldn't use it that way all or even most of the time.
I wish there had been more focus on Boost as a channel- or bus-specific effect in this video. Upward limiting is often more pleasant to my ears than downward limiting for channels or busses. These snake oil tests would be more objective if the plugins were being used on dry tracks/busses rather than wet stems and mixes.
i make the song loud so that when i turn it down then the streaming services turn it up , i actually hear what people will be hearing and it can compete
How about boosting loudness for artistic reasons, like for extremely aggressive music, or boosting loudness on busses or tracks for taste? Think Doom soundtrack by Mick Gordon. That's a good type of thing to use it on. Also aggressice EDM stuff. For mastering I agree with you 100% though. Dynamics = more punch, more kick, more slam, more energy.
@@Jaburu it doesn't matter really, it fits the message being conveyed. Asking if it sounds good is like asking if black metal production "sounds good tho", or if dadaism "looks good". The point of them is to not sound good by these standards.
@@iurigrang the thing is that producing in those genres forces you to match existing music. a more dynamic track wont fit into a DJ session with other crushed ones. now my problem is with calling this "artistic reasons".
@@Jaburu these styles are not made to be in DJ sessions. If they are, they will already pop out because of everything else, not because of compression.
As my grandpa used to say "Every style of music is good if it's loud" :D Jokes aside I do use a limiter on my master bus but I set it so it only limits the absolute peaks, most of the time it's 0 gain reduction and here and there it goes to -2 dB gain reduction. I do metal and rock and I have to say that loudness definetly doesn't help the sound one bit. Overcompressed metal music or where there is too much limitng going on sounds like crap to me. When everything is loud, nothing is loud. When everything is in your face, nothing is in your face. Or something like that :D
I just bought Devious Machines Bundle. It is FANTASTIC. Perfect for spice and surprise. This, however, is an answer to the BBE Sonic Maximizer. Used subtley, I think the UrsaDSP Boost will warm up the mix on some genres that I create. I just downloaded the demo. Odds are, I will buy it. Especially since you see some value in it, sir. They are confident enough to add your honest review to their site, then I think its gonna be just fine in my setup. THANK YOU for your review.
One time I went to a mastering studio and the guy let me hear the horror of loudness war. He had Billy Jean master and a remastered version and gain matched them. The Master had so much punch, you could feel the kick in your chest and still hear everything perfectly in balance, the snare so crisp and snappy, the bassline perfectly balanced and clear, the vocal sat perfect and comfortable in the mix. And then he put on the modern remastered version. The entire thing was just ruined, the drums were completely flat, no punch, the bass was muddy and too present and the vocals were too much in your face. But at least the remasterd version was a couple dB louder.
Having ways to get loudness on individual tracks is still really valuable. Especially for electronic music. Also louder does sound better this is just how are brains perceive sound and it can’t be changed.
Loudness is invented for transmitting FM/ AM further, nowadays rules are very regulated by government. . Then there came Car HIFI, and a few "smart" guys came to get the loudest of them all with using DSP this loudness hights were pumped trough heavy car stereo's. SPLs with 160 db or more. So they did use less power for higher SPLs, now car HIFI was done, but the loudness wars did stay, because some guys, thought it was sounding better louder, which is not. For transmitting purposes, loudness is essential. For instance, try a CD mastered in the 80s like Fleetwood Mac, Or Dire Straits. Love them. But these days when I see "remastered" on a CD, I get cold sweat.
I live tracked my friend's grindcore/death metal band, and the music definitely benefited from obnoxious limiting on the master bus. I used Airwindows NC-17 on it. I wouldn't do it for music with a lot of intricate parts, but sometimes it's cool if you want a wall of sound.
To answer your question: I make my stuff louder to make it easier to listen to in a car or in other situations with background noise and / or quiet listening situations
I agree that if the only place you are presenting your music is streaming platforms, loudness doesn’t matter, however if you DJ (or would like other DJs to play your music) loudness in line with other songs of a similar genre does matter. I DJ drum & bass which you often see tracks around -6 to -4 LUFS and if your track is a lot quieter than that it can be an issue when performing live. Of course there are trim knobs to compensate gain variation between tracks, however if you bring your much quieter and more dynamic song up to reach the same loudness of a track that’s -6 LUFS, there’s a good chance your signal will be clipping on that track because your peaks will be louder than the song that was mastered to that loudness level in the first place. Best case scenario the clipping just sounds terrible, worst case you end up blowing out a speaker. I’m not saying I agree with the way things are and would honestly prefer if everyone would just master to a more reasonable loudness, but that’s the way things are so we’ll have to live with it.
Or, DJs could leave enough headroom on their mixer for lower LUFS tracks, say -8, that way when you bring the -8 track up it's going to sound better on a club system than the smashed tracks, because the dynamics will make the rhythm more defined (dnb is all rhythm). From there on, the club engineer handles the system's spl levels. Also, producers who are not looking to smash their tracks, could do some transparent trimming of peaks (whichever method works), so that if DJs do smash the levels, it will have a bit more room before it get's wrecked.
I'm working with an artist now, and we are going to throw these rules away. We're going back to playing in the pocket instead of on the grid. We're going to use things like dynamics to make people feel again. This loudness war is like trying to have a constant orgasm. It's not special if it's going on around the clock! What ever happened to foreplay? You build up to loudness. It's called drama. Music should make your skin tingle and hairs stand up-once it gets you warmed up a little. Today's consumers want their after-dessert, night-cap ecstasy to start the minute you pull in the driveway!
I've often had to give clients a separate file that's the louder mix/master they asked for. With it I explain (more accurately STRESS) to them that the loud mix is SOLELY for them to crank up in their car because they insisted and I didn't want them to get the impression that I was declining to do so because I was incapable in some way. Then I give them the ready-to-release file(s) and explain to them what will happen if they submit the wrong file for streaming and why it's better to have people hearing the version that was made specifically to be played at the level its going to stream at anyway.
When a control/button has got a setting going from 0% to 100%, it doesn't necessarily mean we should always keep it stucked on 100%... Amazing humans... 😏😉😜
I would like dynamics and fidelity to be prioritised but I also think something like this is amazing for bringing out the Lower details from brining up the RMS so that when it is normalised it still remains loud, I think that because it gives you the option to make it crazy loud without distortion it’s up to the mastering engineer to decide how much is too much, instead of designing the whole mix and master to be centred around getting it crazy loud you can focus more on the tonality and dynamics and use this to get it to a competitive level.
To ask the question, I think that "loudness" sells, today it is more a question of marketing, at a professional level, looking for a correct balance, overmaximizing always ruins the songs, of course depending on the sound material and this plugin can be very useful in mastering but not at exaggerated levels, it is more useful in the mix, removing the "punch" has the "drive" mode that acts differently and in the voices for example with a bit of that process it brings the voices forward without the need to equalize add exciters of harmonics etc etc etc... Also that of the SSL vocal strip that combined facilitates the correct placement of the voices that in general is the most complex. Now I think that the compression of the platforms is a separate issue, if I am going to buy an "album" I want it to be heard in good quality and that is what I will always look for in mixing and mastering, and in fact there are some like the by Billie Eilish that are not one of my favorites that maintain a balance and dynamism and that if the platforms ruin it to a greater or lesser extent it is the problem of the developers and the people who do not complain about better quality. It's a shame how spotify, for example, being a platform dedicated to music, has those resolutions. And if my productions sound bad in acceptable resolutions, it will be worse on the platforms. And it's nice to have those two options in one plugin for clients who prefer "loudnes" to "quality" and that I don't have to go through a lot of processes to get the result that some want.🤗
I enjoy listening to old vinyl, where you actually have to TURN UP THE VOLUME... the recordings have room to breathe..... they have space. It’s akin to every singer having to be tuned, regardless of vocal ability... it’s ridiculous.
I’m not disagreeing with you... but I’m betting that if the labels back in the days of vinyl COULD have had the current loudness levels on their records? They would have. Personally, I LIKE music to have a nice dynamic range; it’s what gives music emotion, energy. I’m not a fan of the current -6 (or louder) LUFS levels. But I’m pretty sure that the only reason that these levels weren’t on vinyl albums, is only because of the limitations of the cutting process, and the playback medium at the time. Just my opinion.
I think the concept of loudness can be very useful at a time when many artists have experimented with different structures in their music. I think this type of plugin is a good way to go when we think about "mastering" sections instead of simply applying this effect at the end of our master chain.
Why make it louder ? Because I CAN (!!!) 🙂 - I also see this plugin helping with increasing density besides the many other uses pointed out in the comments. Anyway, I will mess around with this for a while but first look, touch and feel of this was amazing. We shall soon find out where this stands and if it will bake, make our mixes.
The loudness increase is useful for those who cannot mix well. This attitude towards the master seems to give the impression that everything is more glued. This can be achieved with a good mix, but it's not easy and it's the long and winding way, it seems easier to destroy dynamics and push it all up to get (or mistakenly think of getting) a "smooth", "rich" and pumped sound
One thing to keep in mind is that the listener is also compensating for loudness, for example when my playlist nexts to a loud track I either tune the volume down or skip it. I think it's even the main reason I skip tracks : loud tracks are not comfortable to listen to.
This tool shocked me it seems to not smash the record and I agree with you where this could play in well with radio stations especially underground radio stations to help them get a more professional quality.
So the FOCUS is a tool to remove reverb from vocals? BTW: There is still a lot of mastering going on for non-streaming platforms, such as for DJ sets etc.
We still do this because during live performances loudness is not automatically compensated and we just want our tracks to play evenly loud through the speakers.
I still have both types of clients, those who still want extremely compressed and limited masters and those who like dynamic music. I myself prefer dynamic music, I'm a child of the 80s. 20+ dB of dynamic range is still something, I love and feel as totally normal - but I also have the equipment for music like this. Speakers that could deliver +20 dB Peaks on a 70-85 dB base level and that is not the usual case these days with in ears and small speakers where flat mixes and masters translate much better. You're totally right with what you said about loudness in general but if a clients wants a certain sound, I also see no reason why not to deliver.
Some people have pre-amps, amps, and tube amps these days. All they need is a clean defined 24-bit signal that's dynamic with good separation that's in phase. On the other hand, the average person just wants to listen to music on a $25 mp3 player with $9 headphones.
Reasons for loudness and limiters: (1) people listening to pop and EDM and rock (i.e., 90% of music) expect it. (2) most people listen in noisy environments (even with ear buds). (3) most people listen using sub-optimal reproduction (speakers, radios, whatever). All in all, it's better for everyone if the crest factor is limited. That's just the world we live in. No one, to a first approximation, sits quietly in their living room, with a great sound system, listening to Katy Perry. But most of all, we've been conditioned to *expect* a small crest factor. We think something is wrong if we don't get it. Sorry.
So many plugins aspire to play a role in the 'end game' while they often are best suited on one buss. This plugin for example, I can see this being used on a radio station or for narrating. It sounds good for what it is.
i think the biggest change we need to do in our industry is change our sample rate and bit depth format. 48k 24 bit should be the minimum. even if it gets compressed, it sounds much better. try up loading a true 48k master (not just done in 44.1k and then upsampled) vs. a 44.1k to soundcloud, which compresses the shit out of it. big difference.
I think there are just new plug ins which combine different functions. This thing has a limiter with an compressor built in (sounds weird because both are compressors) the focus button is more an release button. Correct me I’m wrong. The annoying part of it is just that u don’t have to understand the theory behind a compressor or an equalizer or what ever. U press one button and the track will go from 0-100%. Of course it’s sound great, but is this the way we should go threw? Sorry if I’m describing it in a misleading way.
Perhaps the problem is much more for dialogue/sermons. I have a case where I'm having a sermon that needs to be "boosted" when the preacher goes low and then excited/etc. and to "play" with the volumes live is not that much fun, thus the need to have compressors/limiters in play but more so loudness boosting for those that listen on sub par speakers that complains about having to turn the volume full and still not hearing
Loadness war never ended. Have you tried to upload songs to streaming services and respect -14LUFS and -1,0dB TP? Your recording will be lost in the competition of those songs that did not respect the norm. Quite commonly you can measure -7.7LUFS on the stream.
I love hearing someone rant as I would about all this... although the word "rant" is used incorrectly. Pointing out facilities isn't ranting. Ranting is trying to sell something beyond the entirety of the realities... which can sound "super professional"... Confidence is a lie, this is basically the truth. Professionals who know the truth are just labeled as "ranting" because they are shitting on liers game, basically. Love your channel!!!
My limiter goes from -0.1 limiting to -2,5 db limiting, just depends on what sounds the best, gain compensated. To dynamic can make it sound a bit cold and unvibey in comparison. I never worry about numbers in terms of loudness etc.
But this sort of thing CAN be used for good. Easy to use upward compressors are not that common (I use Waves Maxx Volume and Blue Cat compressor for fine control) and have their place for sounds with really silly dynamics variation. It doesn't mean you set it to 11 lol. The reverb is becoming so prominent because that's the softest part of the source. It's doing its job.
Looks interesting. But as you have said, loudness is not everything.... What do you think about the ToneBOOSTERs Plugins? Eq4 and Barracuda. Are they worth bthe money? What is the quality compared to fabfilter?
i am a metal head but i prefer to keep it balance not to laud not to quite if you ask me this plugin can be perfect for summer songs , epic sound and build ups maybe dubstep but it needs to be used more subtle i mean if you have a song where you cant barely hear it then this can work out
As someone who does mostly metal or noise stuff, dynamics are important. I would argue that's partly true for most music, but in metal you want certain things to be quite crushed but you're aiming for general movement through the track. I hate the music where most of the range is delineated by how far the guitars duck (certain slam death bands use this and it just sounds like slamstep, maybe that's the idea but it gets wearing fast). I also can't stand where an album is way quieter overall than most others, in perceived loudness terms anyway. You have to get up and turn the volume up, it's quieter. Sure there are spikes and transients that would hit closer to the "norm" but it's still not pleasant because you have to max your headphones or whatever. However, there's that raw and sort of unprocessed sound that can balance both being reasonably "loud" but keep dynamics. And now, a word of advice worth nothing but time on your side, some trial and error. In the end, stop debating in forums with people who don't have your ears. Mix/master how you think it should sound, not on some graph that a CD player and your ears don't give a damn about. You can mix in a unique way that doesn't just template what all the tutorials online say. Sure they can be helpful, but learn from them instead of thinking it's the only way ever to do things ever. That really irritates me. Peace, great vid
Sounds good actually, I'm 'mastering' some tracks for sound system use, heavy 'afro-techno' - to be distributed on USB stick. It's important to be pretty loud, without being 'limited to death' - maybe this plugin could be useful?
I used L2 Ultramaximizer on our Tucana - Legacy album when I mastered it. Threshold was at 0 and Out ceiling at -0.5 and Release at 0.1. I didn't smash it at all with the L2. It's pretty loud anyway but there are a lot of dynamics in some of the songs. Wounded Heart starts with som really quiet orchestra and builds up until the rest comes in and tears your head off. You can find it on RUclips and Spotify.
with it keyed you also get side mid option were you can choice to effect center or sides or balance of both. useful were guitars paned to side need little more boost or bass is not punching through center mix. i am currently attempting to put this shit on everything I can to find multiple uses for it. both single instruments or full tracks. great tool! the focus tool can add upward compression/expansion.
For up and coming producers etc. attaining comparable loudness is important when demoing, because you're sending stuff to record execs, managers, friends, peers and you need to compromise a little to have something that stands up to the next track on their playlist, as they're gonna be listening in between other stuff. Not saying you have to smash your mix though. There are plenty of tools for this, but from the demo, it sounds like it does a good job without having to settle for a gross clipping sound.
Well I make electronic music and the main reason I look for loudness is for djing and having other djs play my song, that is the intended setting for the music me and many of my friends create.
I work as a live audio engineer. To everyone talking about loudness at clubs or festivals - that is, through a PA of some kind - transients are important. I get so sick of hearing tracks that are so limited that the kick and snare are just smears of sound with no actual punch. The way to sound good through a speaker is to move air appropriately. All speakers DO is move air.
If everything is as loud as your kick and snare then your track won't "bounce". No one will feel the kick or snare as a physical thing. They just disappear into the rest of the track. They become a louder smear of sound in a constant assault with no actual rhythm, because rhythm is created by dynamics. It's not rocket surgery.
I wonder if Club Mixes were ever remade for exactly this reason. To get the club air movement levels optimized instead of the "play it in the car" optimized mix for the regular studios.
@Gerhard Schöner And I'm picturing brain rockets!
what clubs or live mixes......everything has been closed months before you posted your message, and months after...
And this why you can feel the cones moving properly when bass and kick are working together.
Limited signals could really kill speaker drivers and even amps. Especially in a live situation I never understood people that wanted loud masters (or FOH for this reason), most DJs for example. You have this high performance PA which could easily handle transients way above specs without any issues - if you need loudness: Theres input gain, followed by a volume fader, followed by a master level...
I love Darude's Sandstorm - I hear something new every time I hear it.
He chose a masterpiece, that's why
He's the only artist who can make a single song that never gets old. Always fresh and new. ☺️
In reality: Sandstorm is about 10 hours long. A masterpiece so to speak
I dont care about loudness wars. I care about tools. This thing is an excellent tool. The lack of distortion while making a sausage out of dynamic material is so awesome. You can use it in series with another compressor, where you get your flavor from that device and then use this one to make that sound into something that is very easy to set-and-forget in the context of a full mix. Think drum rooms. Its amazing.
Hi Wyste! This is a crazy plug in! I think for people who are doing very organic music and need an easy way to dial in a way to boost level to compete with incredibly smashed music! For music that's already smashed, I agree with you, I wouldn't necessary immediately reach for a tool like this, although this is a great tool!
Hey
@@PharaohLawLess1 hello!
great channel!
Wow my favourite channels are conversing together ❤️❤️❤️
@@rohinagrawal9727 thanks ever so much!
I master everything through Windows 3.1's Sound Recorder - given everything that old school 8bit hard clipping sound.
I seriously thought I was thr only one
USB 1 - because of the vintage sound.
I do my mixing in audacity, wanna collab?
hahaha! but i remember the time when i was recording audio in Windows 3.1')
I like that even though you clearly have a strong opinion on this type of plugin, you are still able to go to the task of examining this plugin with an open and curious mind, and actually speak positively about the things in it that you find positive
Thank you for actually trying out gear on camera live exactly how we mixing engineers & producers do it, fiddling with the controls & just using our ears!
People that only listen to music on streaming platforms: "Why are we caring about loudness if streaming services have loudness normalization?"
People that (used to before Covid) go out to clubs: "You need to get out more"
My ears: Oh no, you don't.
Okay. Let me explain. Streaky, the mastering engineer for Adele and Ed Sheeran, spoke about how literally zero professional clients of his, big labels etc want anything less than between -8lufs to -9lufs. He explains that the reason why it's going to continue and why its the only way the high level guys want it is because the crush is literally what makes the pop track sound the way it does. It's more about the -8lufs being the SOUND. He says it's a very different sound from -14lufs even if its normalized to the same thing. The -14lufs will never sound as full or "finished" as the -8lufs
And I agree with him, I've had a lot of chance to test it.
Even if its being turned down, you're not doing it for anything else other than to actually get the "sound" of crush. Its just what actual pop music sounds like. If you want your track to sound the same as the billboard tracks, and what the consumer is USED TO, in sound, then... you'll push it to -8lufs to get the SOUND
Finally someone understand it!!
I agree! But I must say, even when my tracks are on - 7 lufs, professional tracks with -9 sound 2 times louder than mine!
I do a lot of audio for adverts and corporate movies. I always want to add that thick sound which I make with a lot of compressors, saturators, limiters, multiband limiters. All subtle in but it changes the overall sound. It sounds to weak without it.
@@d3gig490 the difference is between pro mixing and is hobby types
S Amaliel That’s because professional songs are mastered on analog gear ;( same thing happens to me lol
Noone said Upward Limiter can be only used on Mastering stage. This tool is a Pandora's Box for sound design.
Client: "Yes, I understand. But can I have the mix louder now?" ;-/
Set the Dim level 6db down and play that for them first, when they ask for louder, pretend to make some changes, but just turn off dim. Done and Done!
Ima do this lol @@kniferideaudio
Haha. Yes. It's due to those damn lo quality MP3 streaming services the youth is listening today :(
Bass player: "Especially the bass needs to be louder!"
@@MixedByDotRob give them higher frequencies :)
I don't have enough thumbs to rate this plugin. Finally, a plugin that can tone-shape and control dynamics without requiring 5,000 knobs and hours of trial and error. What a well-designed interface with responsive algorithms that simply sound musical. Excellent - definitely not snake oil!
Normal producers: How loud should our mixes be?
Brostep/Riddim producers: Yes.
0 LUFS is about right
Have you ever considered writing for the theatre? That was wonderful.
PERCIEVED loudness does matter though. Generally you get this with upper harmonics in the loudest perceived frequency range. You CAN make mixes SEEM louder by adding these harmonics, while still keeping the actual LUFS in the range of streaming services. This plugin seems to kinda do that.
I'd like to know more about it!
that just makes the music unplayable on big systems, like clubs etc etc.
Not really, most of the loudness analyser uses a frequency response that boosts the high frequencies so if you're increasing the higher frequencies volume, the loudness analyser will pull down the overall level of your track. (More info => search for "K-Weighting filter curve" or something like that)
The LUFS norm is smarter than you would expect :)
@@PixalizOfficial yeah, but at least spotify can be tricked - or at least have been possible earlier this year, late last year. i did get a lot promos from majors where things around 2,5-5k-ish (and a bit above) was lifted up to a point it was unpleasant to listen to even on headphones and those got played louder in spotify. (then again spotify has not been using ebu r128 completely as far i've read - could be wrong nowadays though)
Yeah I was kinda shocked. I thought this was gonna do an ass job. Pretty impressed by it.
I am absolutely on your side. About 30 years ago, when working with Ronald Prent on a couple of albums (and have Bob Ludwig master them), he already predicted the loudness war. He taught me to maintain the average line. I'm deeply grateful for that.
The plugin gives that commercial radio station sound. It reminds me of early 2000’s productions in what it does. Glad that era is over. I’d prefer early 90’s loudness levels any day.
I have this plugin, I'd never use it on the mix buss or in my mastering chain, but I have found it very useful in sound design.
Interesting as I do SFX and such how do you find this useful in Sound Design?
@@vidworxsfx I'm talking about sound design for music.
@@ColinBennun Ah ok, thanks ...
Colin, can you elaborate a bit more please about why this plugin does not fit your mastering and mix chain? I have little experience with mixing and mastering limiters (currently I almost always use Ozone suite for my demos), but I want to educate myself about other (and probably better) alternatives.
Games still use maximized audio for their assets. Up until this year people would still go out to listen to music in clubs and festivals, so the quest for loudness still exists.
But a good DJ will compensate that as much as possible, to make all those songs fit into another
I always thought clubs sounded bad because most DJs don’t understand how to set their gains properly not because of maximised music
There still is an art to slamming a mix for electronic music. Music done wrong has a lack of energy.
I totally understand why games do it. They are very likely to be played straight out the tv speakers or even worse mobile device speakers.
Watch Dan Worrall's video about loudness and the video he made about DJ's wanting loud masters. There really is no good reason except personal preference to want to crush your mix
I made a decision a while ago to avoid depending on "one dial" or "ultra easy" plugins to shape my sound. The truth is if you really try hard to learn about relative balancing, EQ, compression, saturation, and most importantly you respect and shape dynamics properly, then these kinds of tools become apparent that they are for people who want a quick and easy solution without understanding what is involved. My mastering chain involves minimal EQ adjustments to compensate for low and high end summing, glue compression to shape the overall transients to their final maximum potential, and Pro L2 to crank the LUFS somewhere between -9 to -14db. Since Pro L2 lets you hear the distortion applied from the limiting, you can tell precisely when enough is enough. It's also great to monitor the Integrated LUFS over the duration of the song to ensure a consistent perceived loudness between difference song parts. One thing I have learnt as my audio engineering has improved is there are no shortcuts or magic dials, it's knowledge and skill combined with patience and taste. You need to get it right in the mix, limiting is simple after that.
Well, what that Focus parameter is doing with the reverb tail is a very interesting effect to have.
Not to take away from anything cool about this plugin, but you can get similar results using stock compression after your reverb plugin.
I guess you have to remember when loudness war startet!
It was the advertisement industries that liked to stand out "against" the normal radio/tv show audio to gain more recognition for their customers.
So who followed this bad habit? right! The artist management. Putting all this attitude towards possible more record sales.
Since now when the complete audio market start to liberate itself by self distributing artists (and also this spotify and youtube thing by turning the volume down).
The Musicians can now focus more and more to bring back the "emotional" sides of music where dynamics are very important for.
So also because the "normal customer" now get bored and annoyed by loud advertisement.
Its now clear for the ad-companys to step back because loud avertisment doesnt fit the brand anymore in sense of positive recognition.
So clearly we followed the wrong prophet by putting our music to its max (in loudness volume).
But now we have a total wrong trained/conditioned audience waiting for the loud song to hit else their is something wrong unprofessional etc. you called it in your video.
That and Broadcast bandwidth guidance from the FCC ...crappy lossy compression algorithms... steaming...and the needle jumping of the vinyl
As far as I've noticed, low quality and low volume playback are where the overall loudness of the track really makes a huge difference. If you have the TV or radio turned on for some background noise, or you're at work surrounded by loud machines or a bunch of people and you just want to listen to something on your cheap Bluetooth speaker, the delicate details of your music might be inaudible and the dynamic range becomes irrelevant because you can't really hear it. That's why for instance pop music goes for that typical overly compressed loudness; you can bet it will sound roughly the same everywhere. Quality often comes *after* audibility when you're not in a controlled environment.
The. Truth.
Unfortunately for most of my work, my clients don’t want a lot of dynamics. They want an aggressive, up front sound the entire way through. It can be a little maddening when a client gives me notes saying “do you think the intro could be louder” or something to that affect
Gerhard Schöner I never said it wasn’t my job.
I have a unique use case for this very plug. When preparing single drumhits in high resolution for old samplers in 12bit or lower, you want to minimize the bitnoise of low level audio and instead use the ADSR for sculpturing the sound. So, Ursa does not smash the transients, but still lifts up the tails, and when you do that before resamplibg to low bit audio you mask the bitnoise vere effectively.
Yes, it is an extreme use case, but I have looked for years, and not found anything this smooth. Zero-crossing limiters does do a similar trick, but they destroy the transients when applying around 50dB of compression to a normalized sound. Ursa does not.
...but look out for truepeaks! It can do some ugly TP if pressed to the max, so keep a Fabfilter Pro L2 after, to grap the TP-spikes, or at least have control over them.
@@skinnyhastrup4614 Hi, thanks for the feedback. I added full True-Peak in the new version (out yesterday), all existing customers get a free upgrade.
"...just make energetic music..." best quote
"WHY are we still doing THIS?"
1.- Because CDs, vinyls and physical media are still being released. People still download mp3's and listen to them in not loudness compensated enviroments.
2.- In Spotify (and I guess in other platforms as well) you can disable audio normalization. I do this because I like to listen to music the way it is. I wouldn't like my music to sound tiny when people do this.
My oppinion is that eventhough I don't like to blast the loudness on my own tracks, music still needs some loudness maximizing. There's no need for loudness competition, just to add the right amount of loudness.
Besides, at least to my ears, loudness normalization makes almost every mix sound shitty, regardless of how loud it has been mastered.
@@DM-hm4us As regards to RUclips normalization algorythm, I feel it doesn't do the job because other videos still sound louder or quieter. I still have to compensate everytime another video starts, so it's useless. The only thing it does is lower the loudness on loud mastered songs, while in videos where someone speaks, or where there are many gaps where there's no sound, the volume is even louder.
"just to add the right amount of loudness". And therein lies the problem. We've already gone way past the "right amount", hence the loudness wars.
I just A/B'd this with my go-to limiter...and I kept matching LUFS while testing settings between the 2 plugins. The TDR Limiter 6 GE kicks this one's butt lol...it's so good that it makes Boost's coloration and squashing of transients really evident and definitely audible. The only reason this plugin will sell well and become relevant is for artistic level consumers who want to keep things organic and do everything themselves, or for professional engineers who aren't actual, legitimate mastering engineers, who want an easy way to auto-pilot making a track commercially competitive. For these applications, it's GREAT, so I'm in no way bashing the plugin....it's actually really cool technology. It's basically a Waves OneKnob plugin to achieve amateur quality mastering loudness.
but tdr limiter 6 is like a whole plugin chain with like 20 knobs you have to figure out
can we have plugins for making things sound alright together quickly so we can go back to *actually writing music* instead of slightly adjusting gain settings for 12 hours
I just wish today's artists would spend more time creating better music instead of constantly trying to make their mixes louder. Loudness won't cover up a shitty song.
Joe yep... i just listen to Rush on vinyl, and then remember what it was like to listen to REAL journeymen musicians....
it will since your ear drums wont be a thing
It's so true. I like older music from the 70, 80, 90, some others too. I have to lower my volume at times, because I don't want to disturb the neighbors. I just moved out of a place where a neighbor plaid their music at 5:00 am until 12:00 midnight. So this loudness is not good for anyone trying to rest at all.
I think even though audio is compensated, “loudness” still matters or at least the illusion of loudness. If a song is exported at like -10 to -5 LUFS even though Spotify will reduce it to -14 it still retains the “illusion” of loudness from the energy of the original.
I'm going to give this thing a try, because I can see *track* level use cases for it - e.g. as an alternative to a basic gain plugin on an inconsistent vocal. Possibly as a shortcut around an extensive gain/compander automation session, in the editing phase, rather than as an output bus treatment.
upgrading our bit depth will also increase the dynamic range and headroom, even if it gets compressed it will sound better, and plugins will have more headroom as well, if they dont already have double precision.
I'm boosting the loudness because I heard one of my tracks in a spotify playlist once (mastered to -12db LUFS) and it sounded so much quieter and weaker than all the other tracks.
It isn't hard for me to push most of my tracks to -8 or even -6 during the chorus due to the way I mix, so that's what I do.
Exactly the same experience I had.
I like loudness by the feel it gives to the track, the actual osund of it.
boost was made for me specifically
i make techno and refuse to add saturation to anything
I'd personally use this as a production tool instead of a mastering tool. I think it would do a great job of glueing and fattening up a drum mix or bringing out characteristics in individual samples or instruments.
You can use this in a live band performing. You can use studio one. This has a latency low enough for studio one to work in live show mode. This plugin is like a channel strip, drive, gain, compressor and limiter
The typical listener doesn't know why a pop song sounds the way it does. They just know if your song sounds like a pop song or not. The typical pop song is LOUD. So if that's the genre you're going for, you're going to have to be creative about the way you use loudness. I personally think the Billie Eilish team did a good job of this.
Yeah their stuff is not very loud. It’s also very lofi. Just sounds like good bedroom recordings that has been mastered by someone respectful!
I think this one can be interesting for creative processing on individual tracks.
For club music it is essential to reach -6dB RMS which is the standard limiter, a very dynamic volume produces pumping. This plugin is great for electronic and pop music. I can easily compare it with Bettermaker Limiter.
Do u have bettermaker Limiter to make this comparison for real? because if so, then this plugin is amazing!
"WHY are we still doing THIS" - one the few simple questions that when asked honestly and answered correctly, can truly help to make the world a better place :)
Good work, as usual, my friend!!!
PS - in this context, "better world", I think, would be roughly equivalent to the choice of "more dynamic range in musical recordings". CHEERS!
It's a psychoacoustics thing. Once things are loud, return to dynamic content at lower volume is difficult to accept by the (damaged) hearing/brain. I hear you btw, i hate loudness. Unfortunately, there's still a lot of loud stuff being made. It's sometimes sad ... when I have to delete airplay submitted tracks to preserve the quality of our show/podcast. Some pretty big music talents have gone wasted due to their bad mastering results. I will not mention any names ;-) Thanks for this video, well done! greetings, Cyril.
The Compensation of the platforms don't work. Or LUFS don't work. I don't know. What I found. The more I compress my tracks with a limiter, the louder they sound on RUclips compared to less compressed ones. I've tested this many times. The loudness war is not over.
Yeah, I've also experienced that. I've heard a lot about streaming services compensating for loudness and whatever, but when I upload my trash ass sounding tracks through distrokid they still sound waaaay lower than professional tracks (at least on apple music)
Try loudnesspenalty.com, it tells you how the algorithms of most major streaming platforms will affect your audio (not an ad lol)
Thats because youtube doesnt apply its own limiting, the idea here is that spotify will lower the volume in overcompressed tracks and apply an aggressive brickwall limiter to push softer music into -14 LUFS regardless of how that sounds (thats why youd rather do it yourself in a good master) while youtube just reduces the volume of louder tracks, spotify does limit those that are lower
The percieved loudness can come even from more compressed music, like if you put a fast paced intense dubstep song or industrial it will probably appear louder in the same luf values vecause psychoacoustically your brain interprets the transients of electronic music, the compressed distorted sound and certain EQ as louder
Another reason is that maybe you didnt have an even -14LUF value continously throughout your song because you wanted more dynamic range like with the intro or something, some mixers will reduce the dynamic range with fadering automations to make it sound more even and maybe the algorithm doesnt pick it up as a compressor, just like how you sometimes will send fader automation into the clip gain automation to make the vocal more even without it being really compressed, and then you can apply a compreasor to glue the EQ etc
Its like if you record someone screaming or singing with a powerful voice, your brain will make it sound louder than when it really is
Yep, LUFS is no where near perfectly adjusted to human hearing. At least not to my hearing.
As a broadcast engineer we use compression with equipment such as the Orban Optimod to maintain legal levels.
In the early days of FM the louder sounding stations would grab listeners from competing stations more often by sounding powerful.
Something learned however is too much compression loses dynamics and causes listener fatigue.
It's a delicate balance to be powerful, within your allowed modulation and still have music people could listen to for hours.
Now fast forward. Most modern music are so over compressed that the waveform looks like a brick wall without any dynamics whatsoever. I play that in the air, which then runs through the optimod and you are pumping out nothing but listener fatigue.
I wish recording engineers would put the music back into music. Back to basics, please!
New E-mail:
"Boost...your immune system now with this revolutionary snake oil"
The Orban Optimod is not only built to increase loudness but mainly to harmonize the sound of different decades
As an audio editor, Boost's ultra-transparent limiting would be ideal for dialing in vocal levels for a podcast. In my musical workflow, that same transparent limiting would be used for tonal shaping on an individual channel (guitar, acoustic piano, Rhodes, Wurli, snare drum), or perhaps drum bus. Devious Machines might imply that this is a master effect, but I think I wouldn't use it that way all or even most of the time.
I wish there had been more focus on Boost as a channel- or bus-specific effect in this video. Upward limiting is often more pleasant to my ears than downward limiting for channels or busses. These snake oil tests would be more objective if the plugins were being used on dry tracks/busses rather than wet stems and mixes.
i make the song loud so that when i turn it down then the streaming services turn it up , i actually hear what people will be hearing and it can compete
How about boosting loudness for artistic reasons, like for extremely aggressive music, or boosting loudness on busses or tracks for taste? Think Doom soundtrack by Mick Gordon. That's a good type of thing to use it on. Also aggressice EDM stuff.
For mastering I agree with you 100% though. Dynamics = more punch, more kick, more slam, more energy.
He mentioned that tho. In some styles, it's a desired aesthetic.
does it realy sound better though? I doubt it
@@Jaburu it doesn't matter really, it fits the message being conveyed. Asking if it sounds good is like asking if black metal production "sounds good tho", or if dadaism "looks good". The point of them is to not sound good by these standards.
@@iurigrang the thing is that producing in those genres forces you to match existing music. a more dynamic track wont fit into a DJ session with other crushed ones. now my problem is with calling this "artistic reasons".
@@Jaburu these styles are not made to be in DJ sessions. If they are, they will already pop out because of everything else, not because of compression.
As my grandpa used to say "Every style of music is good if it's loud" :D Jokes aside I do use a limiter on my master bus but I set it so it only limits the absolute peaks, most of the time it's 0 gain reduction and here and there it goes to -2 dB gain reduction. I do metal and rock and I have to say that loudness definetly doesn't help the sound one bit. Overcompressed metal music or where there is too much limitng going on sounds like crap to me. When everything is loud, nothing is loud. When everything is in your face, nothing is in your face. Or something like that :D
I just bought Devious Machines Bundle. It is FANTASTIC. Perfect for spice and surprise.
This, however, is an answer to the BBE Sonic Maximizer. Used subtley, I think the UrsaDSP Boost will warm up the mix on some genres that I create.
I just downloaded the demo. Odds are, I will buy it. Especially since you see some value in it, sir. They are confident enough to add your honest review to their site, then I think its gonna be just fine in my setup. THANK YOU for your review.
One time I went to a mastering studio and the guy let me hear the horror of loudness war. He had Billy Jean master and a remastered version and gain matched them. The Master had so much punch, you could feel the kick in your chest and still hear everything perfectly in balance, the snare so crisp and snappy, the bassline perfectly balanced and clear, the vocal sat perfect and comfortable in the mix.
And then he put on the modern remastered version. The entire thing was just ruined, the drums were completely flat, no punch, the bass was muddy and too present and the vocals were too much in your face.
But at least the remasterd version was a couple dB louder.
Having ways to get loudness on individual tracks is still really valuable. Especially for electronic music. Also louder does sound better this is just how are brains perceive sound and it can’t be changed.
Loudness is invented for transmitting FM/ AM further, nowadays rules are very regulated by government. . Then there came Car HIFI, and a few "smart" guys came to get the loudest of them all with using DSP this loudness hights were pumped trough heavy car stereo's. SPLs with 160 db or more. So they did use less power for higher SPLs, now car HIFI was done, but the loudness wars did stay, because some guys, thought it was sounding better louder, which is not. For transmitting purposes, loudness is essential. For instance, try a CD mastered in the 80s like Fleetwood Mac, Or Dire Straits. Love them. But these days when I see "remastered" on a CD, I get cold sweat.
problem is, even if I want to boost the whole song, i don't really want every frequency boosted the same amount or same way.
I live tracked my friend's grindcore/death metal band, and the music definitely benefited from obnoxious limiting on the master bus. I used Airwindows NC-17 on it. I wouldn't do it for music with a lot of intricate parts, but sometimes it's cool if you want a wall of sound.
To answer your question: I make my stuff louder to make it easier to listen to in a car or in other situations with background noise and / or quiet listening situations
Do you not have a volume control on your playback device?
@@maqimusic not to make it easier listen to for me personally ofc lol
I agree that if the only place you are presenting your music is streaming platforms, loudness doesn’t matter, however if you DJ (or would like other DJs to play your music) loudness in line with other songs of a similar genre does matter. I DJ drum & bass which you often see tracks around -6 to -4 LUFS and if your track is a lot quieter than that it can be an issue when performing live. Of course there are trim knobs to compensate gain variation between tracks, however if you bring your much quieter and more dynamic song up to reach the same loudness of a track that’s -6 LUFS, there’s a good chance your signal will be clipping on that track because your peaks will be louder than the song that was mastered to that loudness level in the first place. Best case scenario the clipping just sounds terrible, worst case you end up blowing out a speaker. I’m not saying I agree with the way things are and would honestly prefer if everyone would just master to a more reasonable loudness, but that’s the way things are so we’ll have to live with it.
Or, DJs could leave enough headroom on their mixer for lower LUFS tracks, say -8, that way when you bring the -8 track up it's going to sound better on a club system than the smashed tracks, because the dynamics will make the rhythm more defined (dnb is all rhythm).
From there on, the club engineer handles the system's spl levels.
Also, producers who are not looking to smash their tracks, could do some transparent trimming of peaks (whichever method works), so that if DJs do smash the levels, it will have a bit more room before it get's wrecked.
I'm working with an artist now, and we are going to throw these rules away. We're going back to playing in the pocket instead of on the grid. We're going to use things like dynamics to make people feel again. This loudness war is like trying to have a constant orgasm. It's not special if it's going on around the clock! What ever happened to foreplay? You build up to loudness. It's called drama. Music should make your skin tingle and hairs stand up-once it gets you warmed up a little. Today's consumers want their after-dessert, night-cap ecstasy to start the minute you pull in the driveway!
I've often had to give clients a separate file that's the louder mix/master they asked for. With it I explain (more accurately STRESS) to them that the loud mix is SOLELY for them to crank up in their car because they insisted and I didn't want them to get the impression that I was declining to do so because I was incapable in some way.
Then I give them the ready-to-release file(s) and explain to them what will happen if they submit the wrong file for streaming and why it's better to have people hearing the version that was made specifically to be played at the level its going to stream at anyway.
When a control/button has got a setting going from 0% to 100%, it doesn't necessarily mean we should always keep it stucked on 100%... Amazing humans... 😏😉😜
Engineer - Builds Death star thinking it will mark the end of all conflict.
Moff Tarkin - Tests it on Alderaan
Engineer - !?
I would like dynamics and fidelity to be prioritised but I also think something like this is amazing for bringing out the Lower details from brining up the RMS so that when it is normalised it still remains loud, I think that because it gives you the option to make it crazy loud without distortion it’s up to the mastering engineer to decide how much is too much, instead of designing the whole mix and master to be centred around getting it crazy loud you can focus more on the tonality and dynamics and use this to get it to a competitive level.
To ask the question, I think that "loudness" sells, today it is more a question of marketing, at a professional level, looking for a correct balance, overmaximizing always ruins the songs, of course depending on the sound material and this plugin can be very useful in mastering but not at exaggerated levels, it is more useful in the mix, removing the "punch" has the "drive" mode that acts differently and in the voices for example with a bit of that process it brings the voices forward without the need to equalize add exciters of harmonics etc etc etc... Also that of the SSL vocal strip that combined facilitates the correct placement of the voices that in general is the most complex. Now I think that the compression of the platforms is a separate issue, if I am going to buy an "album" I want it to be heard in good quality and that is what I will always look for in mixing and mastering, and in fact there are some like the by Billie Eilish that are not one of my favorites that maintain a balance and dynamism and that if the platforms ruin it to a greater or lesser extent it is the problem of the developers and the people who do not complain about better quality. It's a shame how spotify, for example, being a platform dedicated to music, has those resolutions. And if my productions sound bad in acceptable resolutions, it will be worse on the platforms. And it's nice to have those two options in one plugin for clients who prefer "loudnes" to "quality" and that I don't have to go through a lot of processes to get the result that some want.🤗
I enjoy listening to old vinyl, where you actually have to TURN UP THE VOLUME... the recordings have room to breathe..... they have space.
It’s akin to every singer having to be tuned, regardless of vocal ability... it’s ridiculous.
I’m not disagreeing with you... but I’m betting that if the labels back in the days of vinyl COULD have had the current loudness levels on their records? They would have. Personally, I LIKE music to have a nice dynamic range; it’s what gives music emotion, energy. I’m not a fan of the current -6 (or louder) LUFS levels.
But I’m pretty sure that the only reason that these levels weren’t on vinyl albums, is only because of the limitations of the cutting process, and the playback medium at the time.
Just my opinion.
I think the concept of loudness can be very useful at a time when many artists have experimented with different structures in their music. I think this type of plugin is a good way to go when we think about "mastering" sections instead of simply applying this effect at the end of our master chain.
Why make it louder ? Because I CAN (!!!) 🙂 - I also see this plugin helping with increasing density besides the many other uses pointed out in the comments. Anyway, I will mess around with this for a while but first look, touch and feel of this was amazing. We shall soon find out where this stands and if it will bake, make our mixes.
The loudness increase is useful for those who cannot mix well. This attitude towards the master seems to give the impression that everything is more glued. This can be achieved with a good mix, but it's not easy and it's the long and winding way, it seems easier to destroy dynamics and push it all up to get (or mistakenly think of getting) a "smooth", "rich" and pumped sound
One thing to keep in mind is that the listener is also compensating for loudness, for example when my playlist nexts to a loud track I either tune the volume down or skip it. I think it's even the main reason I skip tracks : loud tracks are not comfortable to listen to.
This tool shocked me it seems to not smash the record and I agree with you where this could play in well with radio stations especially underground radio stations to help them get a more professional quality.
So the FOCUS is a tool to remove reverb from vocals? BTW: There is still a lot of mastering going on for non-streaming platforms, such as for DJ sets etc.
We still do this because during live performances loudness is not automatically compensated and we just want our tracks to play evenly loud through the speakers.
I still have both types of clients, those who still want extremely compressed and limited masters and those who like dynamic music. I myself prefer dynamic music, I'm a child of the 80s. 20+ dB of dynamic range is still something, I love and feel as totally normal - but I also have the equipment for music like this. Speakers that could deliver +20 dB Peaks on a 70-85 dB base level and that is not the usual case these days with in ears and small speakers where flat mixes and masters translate much better. You're totally right with what you said about loudness in general but if a clients wants a certain sound, I also see no reason why not to deliver.
Some people have pre-amps, amps, and tube amps these days. All they need is a clean defined 24-bit signal that's dynamic with good separation that's in phase. On the other hand, the average person just wants to listen to music on a $25 mp3 player with $9 headphones.
Reasons for loudness and limiters: (1) people listening to pop and EDM and rock (i.e., 90% of music) expect it. (2) most people listen in noisy environments (even with ear buds). (3) most people listen using sub-optimal reproduction (speakers, radios, whatever). All in all, it's better for everyone if the crest factor is limited. That's just the world we live in. No one, to a first approximation, sits quietly in their living room, with a great sound system, listening to Katy Perry. But most of all, we've been conditioned to *expect* a small crest factor. We think something is wrong if we don't get it. Sorry.
Louder world, Louder mixes
i think somthng like this can still be used in mixing or production stages
So many plugins aspire to play a role in the 'end game' while they often are best suited on one buss. This plugin for example, I can see this being used on a radio station or for narrating. It sounds good for what it is.
For hardstyle this thing is amazing lol 😂
Finally I loved the song you used in the video...though it's called the same as all others.
i think the biggest change we need to do in our industry is change our sample rate and bit depth format. 48k 24 bit should be the minimum. even if it gets compressed, it sounds much better. try up loading a true 48k master (not just done in 44.1k and then upsampled) vs. a 44.1k to soundcloud, which compresses the shit out of it. big difference.
I think there are just new plug ins which combine different functions. This thing has a limiter with an compressor built in (sounds weird because both are compressors) the focus button is more an release button. Correct me I’m wrong. The annoying part of it is just that u don’t have to understand the theory behind a compressor or an equalizer or what ever. U press one button and the track will go from 0-100%. Of course it’s sound great, but is this the way we should go threw?
Sorry if I’m describing it in a misleading way.
Perhaps the problem is much more for dialogue/sermons. I have a case where I'm having a sermon that needs to be "boosted" when the preacher goes low and then excited/etc. and to "play" with the volumes live is not that much fun, thus the need to have compressors/limiters in play but more so loudness boosting for those that listen on sub par speakers that complains about having to turn the volume full and still not hearing
Im mastering club tracks to be as loud as the other music i play so when i cue them in they will not sound out of olace
Loadness war never ended. Have you tried to upload songs to streaming services and respect -14LUFS and -1,0dB TP? Your recording will be lost in the competition of those songs that did not respect the norm. Quite commonly you can measure -7.7LUFS on the stream.
Hmm...interesting! How about when you record on ribbon mics with a weak preamp? This seems like a good way to boost the signal to workable levels...?
I love hearing someone rant as I would about all this... although the word "rant" is used incorrectly.
Pointing out facilities isn't ranting.
Ranting is trying to sell something beyond the entirety of the realities... which can sound "super professional"...
Confidence is a lie, this is basically the truth.
Professionals who know the truth are just labeled as "ranting" because they are shitting on liers game, basically.
Love your channel!!!
My limiter goes from -0.1 limiting to -2,5 db limiting, just depends on what sounds the best, gain compensated. To dynamic can make it sound a bit cold and unvibey in comparison. I never worry about numbers in terms of loudness etc.
But this sort of thing CAN be used for good. Easy to use upward compressors are not that common (I use Waves Maxx Volume and Blue Cat compressor for fine control) and have their place for sounds with really silly dynamics variation. It doesn't mean you set it to 11 lol. The reverb is becoming so prominent because that's the softest part of the source. It's doing its job.
Looks interesting. But as you have said, loudness is not everything.... What do you think about the ToneBOOSTERs Plugins? Eq4 and Barracuda. Are they worth bthe money? What is the quality compared to fabfilter?
i am a metal head but i prefer to keep it balance not to laud not to quite
if you ask me this plugin can be perfect for summer songs , epic sound and build ups maybe dubstep but it needs to be used more subtle
i mean if you have a song where you cant barely hear it then this can work out
As someone who does mostly metal or noise stuff, dynamics are important. I would argue that's partly true for most music, but in metal you want certain things to be quite crushed but you're aiming for general movement through the track. I hate the music where most of the range is delineated by how far the guitars duck (certain slam death bands use this and it just sounds like slamstep, maybe that's the idea but it gets wearing fast). I also can't stand where an album is way quieter overall than most others, in perceived loudness terms anyway. You have to get up and turn the volume up, it's quieter. Sure there are spikes and transients that would hit closer to the "norm" but it's still not pleasant because you have to max your headphones or whatever. However, there's that raw and sort of unprocessed sound that can balance both being reasonably "loud" but keep dynamics.
And now, a word of advice worth nothing but time on your side, some trial and error.
In the end, stop debating in forums with people who don't have your ears. Mix/master how you think it should sound, not on some graph that a CD player and your ears don't give a damn about. You can mix in a unique way that doesn't just template what all the tutorials online say. Sure they can be helpful, but learn from them instead of thinking it's the only way ever to do things ever. That really irritates me.
Peace, great vid
Sounds good actually, I'm 'mastering' some tracks for sound system use, heavy 'afro-techno' - to be distributed on USB stick. It's important to be pretty loud, without being 'limited to death' - maybe this plugin could be useful?
I would use it on individual tracks (channels), creatively and not to an extreme.
I used L2 Ultramaximizer on our Tucana - Legacy album when I mastered it. Threshold was at 0 and Out ceiling at -0.5 and Release at 0.1. I didn't smash it at all with the L2. It's pretty loud anyway but there are a lot of dynamics in some of the songs. Wounded Heart starts with som really quiet orchestra and builds up until the rest comes in and tears your head off. You can find it on RUclips and Spotify.
Yeah! Would be nice to hear more of what this plugin does on settings between 0 and 100%
with it keyed you also get side mid option were you can choice to effect center or sides or balance of both. useful were guitars paned to side need little more boost or bass is not punching through center mix. i am currently attempting to put this shit on everything I can to find multiple uses for it. both single instruments or full tracks. great tool! the focus tool can add upward compression/expansion.
for me smashing transients is very important when producing trance music.. can definitely see a use for that plugin
LMAO why smashing transients?
@@medicisounds1384 because the clicks on those kicks are nasty
For up and coming producers etc. attaining comparable loudness is important when demoing, because you're sending stuff to record execs, managers, friends, peers and you need to compromise a little to have something that stands up to the next track on their playlist, as they're gonna be listening in between other stuff. Not saying you have to smash your mix though. There are plenty of tools for this, but from the demo, it sounds like it does a good job without having to settle for a gross clipping sound.
Well I make electronic music and the main reason I look for loudness is for djing and having other djs play my song, that is the intended setting for the music me and many of my friends create.
I use it before my limiter and adjust how much I want with the wet dry. I use if more as an effect than an actual limiter.
FFWD 2 years later, Loudness war IS OVER, loudness won.
Loudness compensations? All billboard top 10 on youtube are 7-9 lufs. U can check it