Thank you for doing this, awesome video! I've had this grinder for a week now. Build quality is solid and I'm really enjoying the workflow and flexibility the variable RPM gives me.
First thank you for all this work. I wonder if you can provide your experience regarding the following: How is the grind adjustment accuracy over time, in regard to the top burr carrier & springs design? How accurate is the grind adjustment for repeating an old 'recipe' e.g. if go from recipe setting 1, to different grind setting, then go back to previous grind setting 1 is the result (flavors, brew time, brew ratio) the same or within few seconds every time? There aren't a lot of reviews or user experience regarding 64mm vs 83mm but conventional wisdom seems to say that certain burrs (e.g. SSP Cast) are better in 83mm than 64mm, but otherwise how well the 64mm burr is dialed-in will result in same or very close to 83mm (83mm slightly better in general overall 5-10%). The Swiss guys Kaffeemacher noted the Niche Duo was adjustable to 5 microns while the DF83 was adj. to 20 microns and latter is at edge of being perceptible to most people but it seems the DF83 is easier to install 3rd-party burrs as the Duo was set-up for the Mazzers. We're looking to update our entire coffee game and torn between DF64v and something like Varia VS3 or Niche Zero for the heavy body contrast or going for 83mm to cover everything (clarity, body, smooth, sweet and just enough acidity). Thank you for your time. Regards
thx for your efforts... an idea for a possible optimization of the results: change the burr (which one was used here?) and/or change the grind adjustment, i.e. try an even finer grinding - the the parts of the "fines" should increase..
Thanks for the test!👌👍 It turns out that the range for testing with espresso beans starts from 900 rpm. My Fiorenzato F83 E Pro grinder works at 1400 rpm. Thinking about buying an additional DF64V grinder. Then you can test the differences between the grinding disc size and the different speeds. In the end it's a gimmick 😉 and not necessary, but we're all kind of crazy!😉🤣🤣
Fiorenzato F83 is a great grinder. Been a fan of that grinder for years and well and truly before Fiorenzato became "cool". Very consistent and robust and puts a lot of other bigger name grinders to shame. I remember the days when we did no RDT, no WDT, no grind distributors (other than by hand), no puck screens, no pressure profiling and no automatic tampers and we were still able to produce delicious espresso shots. I guess the pursuit of perfection will always have people trying new things. With variable RPM I think there is more to it than some of the other "gimmicks" that have crept into our puck prep and that there is a difference in the cup. It's funny since I shot that video my starting RPM setting is 1200 and I adjust from there if needed but guess what? I haven't needed to as I've been happy with the coffee I've been able to produce. Will keep experimenting when and as time permits and share my results for those interested. I'd say if you have the means to do so then get that DF64V. It will certainly make experimenting a little more exciting.
Placed an order for this grinder a month ago - expected end of June. I plan to install SSP cast burrs and hope to get good espresso at higher speed and good pour over at low speed. Any chance you have access to some SSP cast burrs?
Yes I have access to cast burrs. Will wait until I have some extra DF64V grinders and I can run them side by side with a different burr set each. That way can do a direct comparison without having to waste time swapping out burr sets between shots.
@@FrankiesBeansMachines For these tests you had the stock burrs in there right? I think the Labsweet style burrs like SSP Cast and Option-O Mizen don't have quite as dramatic of a difference for espresso at high/lower RPM, but there is still similar results to what you found here. Some people don't believe RPM really changes the taste any differently than adjusting grind size would. Apparently lower rpm grinds coarser usually on my P64 with the Mizen burrs for coarser grinding I did notice that happened a bit!
Yes stock burrs as that is how most people will be using the DF64V. Yes I know some say there is no difference however there was for me which is why I said to take the results with a grain of salt as they are my results and may differ for someone else.
For medium to dark roast beans for espresso... How does the DF64V (with stock DLC burrs) compare to the Niche Zero? ... Mainly drink long blacks and lattes.
TDS is Total Dissolved Solids. It is a measurement of the concentration of dissolved substances, such as minerals and other organic compounds, in a liquid. E/Y is extraction yield. Extraction yield, refers to the percentage of coffee solubles that are extracted from the coffee grounds during the brewing process. It is a measurement that quantifies how efficiently the desirable compounds in coffee, such as flavours, aromas, and oils, are extracted from the grounds and transferred into the final brewed coffee.
Hi Andrew, yes I have with ultra light roast dense coffee beans. Happened only once though. The lower grinding speeds are really aimed for filter grinding rather than for espresso. If you are looking for low RPM for filter you should have no issues. For espresso you may encounter stalling from time to time. in all honesty though for espresso the 600 rpm shot was my least favourite so it is unlikely I'll be grinding that slow with the DF64V.
@@FrankiesBeansMachines Notice more acidity / sharpness at lower RPM but also more flavour clarity generally? What kind of coffee were you using for these tests?
Acidity was more present at the 900RPM mark. Coffee I used was our Seasonal Blend that has an omni roast profile so on the light to medium roast profile.
Hate this grinder. No support from the company, machining is poor (misaligned holes, rough threads), no support, burrs are out of alignment, no support, creates very high static compared to other machines, and results are inconsistent (see alignment and machining issues). Yes, I probably got a lemon. But did I mention the company gives no support? Days to respond if they do at all and no useful engagement in the issues when they do. I've got a $550 lemon and it's been a week since they answered an email. Do not buy from this company.
Thank you for doing this, awesome video! I've had this grinder for a week now. Build quality is solid and I'm really enjoying the workflow and flexibility the variable RPM gives me.
Glad you enjoy it!
Hi, thanks for all this tests, i have a question, does lower rpm helps to reduce astringecy for some ssp burrs like the 64mm multipurpose on espresso?
That's a lot of espresso! Thanks for doing these tests.
I'm lucky and don't suffer the caffeine buzz so can drink coffee all day and sleep like a baby at night.
An interesting experiment. Thanks for doing it.
Will you be doing a review on this grinder?
Yes we will be. Keep an eye out for it.
First thank you for all this work. I wonder if you can provide your experience regarding the following: How is the grind adjustment accuracy over time, in regard to the top burr carrier & springs design? How accurate is the grind adjustment for repeating an old 'recipe' e.g. if go from recipe setting 1, to different grind setting, then go back to previous grind setting 1 is the result (flavors, brew time, brew ratio) the same or within few seconds every time? There aren't a lot of reviews or user experience regarding 64mm vs 83mm but conventional wisdom seems to say that certain burrs (e.g. SSP Cast) are better in 83mm than 64mm, but otherwise how well the 64mm burr is dialed-in will result in same or very close to 83mm (83mm slightly better in general overall 5-10%). The Swiss guys Kaffeemacher noted the Niche Duo was adjustable to 5 microns while the DF83 was adj. to 20 microns and latter is at edge of being perceptible to most people but it seems the DF83 is easier to install 3rd-party burrs as the Duo was set-up for the Mazzers. We're looking to update our entire coffee game and torn between DF64v and something like Varia VS3 or Niche Zero for the heavy body contrast or going for 83mm to cover everything (clarity, body, smooth, sweet and just enough acidity). Thank you for your time. Regards
thx for your efforts... an idea for a possible optimization of the results: change the burr (which one was used here?) and/or change the grind adjustment, i.e. try an even finer grinding - the the parts of the "fines" should increase..
Thanks for the test!👌👍
It turns out that the range for testing with espresso beans starts from 900 rpm.
My Fiorenzato F83 E Pro grinder works at 1400 rpm.
Thinking about buying an additional DF64V grinder.
Then you can test the differences between the grinding disc size and the different speeds.
In the end it's a gimmick 😉 and not necessary, but we're all kind of crazy!😉🤣🤣
Fiorenzato F83 is a great grinder. Been a fan of that grinder for years and well and truly before Fiorenzato became "cool". Very consistent and robust and puts a lot of other bigger name grinders to shame.
I remember the days when we did no RDT, no WDT, no grind distributors (other than by hand), no puck screens, no pressure profiling and no automatic tampers and we were still able to produce delicious espresso shots. I guess the pursuit of perfection will always have people trying new things.
With variable RPM I think there is more to it than some of the other "gimmicks" that have crept into our puck prep and that there is a difference in the cup. It's funny since I shot that video my starting RPM setting is 1200 and I adjust from there if needed but guess what? I haven't needed to as I've been happy with the coffee I've been able to produce.
Will keep experimenting when and as time permits and share my results for those interested.
I'd say if you have the means to do so then get that DF64V. It will certainly make experimenting a little more exciting.
Placed an order for this grinder a month ago - expected end of June. I plan to install SSP cast burrs and hope to get good espresso at higher speed and good pour over at low speed. Any chance you have access to some SSP cast burrs?
Yes I have access to cast burrs. Will wait until I have some extra DF64V grinders and I can run them side by side with a different burr set each. That way can do a direct comparison without having to waste time swapping out burr sets between shots.
@@FrankiesBeansMachines For these tests you had the stock burrs in there right? I think the Labsweet style burrs like SSP Cast and Option-O Mizen don't have quite as dramatic of a difference for espresso at high/lower RPM, but there is still similar results to what you found here. Some people don't believe RPM really changes the taste any differently than adjusting grind size would. Apparently lower rpm grinds coarser usually on my P64 with the Mizen burrs for coarser grinding I did notice that happened a bit!
Yes stock burrs as that is how most people will be using the DF64V. Yes I know some say there is no difference however there was for me which is why I said to take the results with a grain of salt as they are my results and may differ for someone else.
How is the alignment and tolerances on the df64v?
Alignment and tolerance as well as all round finish is an improvement on the DF64V compared to DF64.
For medium to dark roast beans for espresso... How does the DF64V (with stock DLC burrs) compare to the Niche Zero? ... Mainly drink long blacks and lattes.
Haven't had a chance to compare side by side. That being said I personally do have a preference for flat burrs. Find Niche Zero shots a little muddy.
Hey, what do TDS and E/Y mean ? min 34:32
TDS is Total Dissolved Solids. It is a measurement of the concentration of dissolved substances, such as minerals and other organic compounds, in a liquid.
E/Y is extraction yield. Extraction yield, refers to the percentage of coffee solubles that are extracted from the coffee grounds during the brewing process. It is a measurement that quantifies how efficiently the desirable compounds in coffee, such as flavours, aromas, and oils, are extracted from the grounds and transferred into the final brewed coffee.
So whats the best rpm for espresso?
That is very subjective, however I have found the sweet spot to be between 900-1200 rpm for me.
What is your fineness setting on the dial?
around grind setting 15 on the DF64V
Maybe also run 5 at the same settings to get an idea of consistency.
Yes that was the plan for my next test. See how consistent it is between shots at the same setting.
Have you experienced any stalling grinding espresso at 600rpm?
I was told by espresso outlet to not grind espresso below 1000.
Hi Andrew, yes I have with ultra light roast dense coffee beans. Happened only once though. The lower grinding speeds are really aimed for filter grinding rather than for espresso. If you are looking for low RPM for filter you should have no issues. For espresso you may encounter stalling from time to time. in all honesty though for espresso the 600 rpm shot was my least favourite so it is unlikely I'll be grinding that slow with the DF64V.
@@FrankiesBeansMachines Notice more acidity / sharpness at lower RPM but also more flavour clarity generally?
What kind of coffee were you using for these tests?
Acidity was more present at the 900RPM mark. Coffee I used was our Seasonal Blend that has an omni roast profile so on the light to medium roast profile.
The raw numbers don't say much. A spreadsheet at the end graphically showing the results would have been nice.
Good suggestion. Will look to incorporate it into future videos.
Hate this grinder. No support from the company, machining is poor (misaligned holes, rough threads), no support, burrs are out of alignment, no support, creates very high static compared to other machines, and results are inconsistent (see alignment and machining issues).
Yes, I probably got a lemon. But did I mention the company gives no support? Days to respond if they do at all and no useful engagement in the issues when they do. I've got a $550 lemon and it's been a week since they answered an email. Do not buy from this company.