I find it interesting the effort, time and money some put in trying to obtain great deer hunting. I don’t even put out game cameras. The only info I have on the deer herd is what I happen to see. I like seeing a mature buck for the first time while hunting. Not into all the high tech gadgets and extraordinary effort to track and grow deer. I enjoy the simplicity of hunting the way I did in my youth. To each his own, God Bless.
Agreed, but there is also satisfaction in the land part - forget the deer. In some ways, the deer are just an excuse to do this stuff. If it wasn't deer it would be ruffed grouse. Some people just love the work related with owning land and the results that come from that effort.
I look forward to seeing that video of everyone on your farm, should be some good information to learn from. Always a good sign when the dream farm series picks back up, the farm work is just so much fun!
Hey Bill went through what your going through. 5 years it will turn the corner. Keep being a great land stewert. My only thing is cut cut cut cut timber. Thanks for the great contant
I think we will know a lot more in two years. That is when a lot of this work will start to take shape and the bucks will start entering the mature age classes - if they survive. Have a great day and thanks for the comment.
Big timber areas are hard to hunt. I grew up in Northeast Mississippi. Toughest hunting I've come across. Midwest in crop country, is completly different. Much easier hunting.
Yes, when the habitat is limited but there are good numbers of deer, those deer become a lot easier to hunt, especially after the corn comes out. Good luck.
I spent 8 hrs total in restaurants with jeff. Liked him personally but wish lot more time on property for the price. For people that eat and sleep this stuff I think we need to remember that you hunt what you have and the best might be a 2.5 yr old buck.
That’s an expensive dinner date. Was gonna go with him back in 2015 but didn’t want to spend the $ after just buying the land. Wish I would have though, went with an in state guy that was a waste.
I'm old school. Not into the deer farming stuff. All the new tech sours it for me. Now I'm old 70 hunted gun and archery and learned the woods without the tech. Shoot I took alot of good bucks with recurved and Bear Whitetail hunter compound! Used that till around 1990! But this turning hunting into what it is becoming nah not for me. I still just fill my 870 with 5 of those green Remington sluggers even though I live in a Rifle state (Wisconsin) it's more close up and challenging for me that way.
My first compound was the Bear Whitetail Hunter too. I saved my lawn mowing money to buy it. That was 1978, I think. I believe it was the year after they came out with it.
@bill-winke yup. I got mine second hand. Those big metal hangers lol. But it did work. A hole thru the lungs is a hole thru the lungs however it gets there.
I enjoy both deer strategy and farm strategy not sure which one more. My dnr forrester gave me nice plan to go by not so much targeted to deer but heavy TSI and invasive hsuckle mngmt. Im about 20m northwest of your old farm.
Keith, I enjoy the work on the land as much as the hunting now. That honeysuckle is bad news. Wipe it out before you do too much TSI or all you will have honeysuckle on that place. Good luck.
keithbuesing6912 Bill is right, be careful doing TSI with an existing honeysuckle infestation. Invasive honeysuckle likes sunlight. The TSI allows more sunlight to the forest floor and the honeysuckle will spread quickly into your woods.
If Bill Winke called me to come out and write him a management plan... I would focus a lot of effort on early successional "old field" habitat. This could be by allowing food plots to grow up... or utilizing more of an annual food plot rotation where you plant annuals and allow it to go fallow for 1-3 years. Rotate the food around the open ground. Currently Bill has great food... great hardwood timber... but little in between. The goat prairie is on the right track but the soils are are likely so poor everything grows slower there.
The in-between stuff is growing now - acorn seeding on 30 acres that are now 2 foot tall oak, with assorted weeds and browse species/shrubs (plum, chokecherry, ninebark, hazelnut) planted on another 11+ acres. The area around the apple trees is roughly another 20+ acres that is old pasture and growing back to more young apple trees. That is 61 acres excluding the goat prairie.
Hey Bill maybe I missed it when you first took owner ship of your new farm how many acres of land do you have what would be the smallest parcel of land that someone could own to have whitetail deer herd with decent # let’s just say 20 deer how many acres land would one need to have hold that herd of 20 deer ???
Shawn, this started at 285, then went to 405 and then 625. The smallest parcel to hold that many deer is probably 80 acres - at least to hold that many in a healthy way in an average neighborhood. I believe if you are in a super high deer density neighborhood you can do it with less acres, but that is only because the deer don't have other options when they get too numerous. Holding 20 deer on 80 acres would be a solid goal - would take a good bit of improvement to habitat to increase browse and security and plenty of good food plots. Good luck.
These guys at Whitetail Institute operate well in the south being they are out of Alabama. They would be a good option. My role is only to help them out in the Midwest, not in the south. They have a pretty good feel for that. Have a great day.
We will cover that this spring, Taylor. The acorns we planted in 2022 are doing just OK, but the ones we planted in 2023 are doing very well. The main difference, I think, was the growing season the year after the fall planting. We will go into more detail once everything starts growing again. Have a great day.
Bill would you ever admit that you’ve been disappointed thus far with the mature deer that’s on the property? I know it’s a hard pill to swallow but to watch every one have so much success on public land and land like Jared has bought less then a couple years it’s surprising to me how hard of a time you’ve had putting a big one on the ground. No offense it’s just been really eye opening
I have said it a few times, but I hate to slam the neighborhood too much. There just aren't/weren't many mature bucks in this area. I have talked to the other landowners around here to find out what they are seeing and most are not serious deer hunters. There has been a strong tradition of gun hunting in this area where they shoot most anything (or possibly everything). So the overall pressure on the area has been high enough historically that there weren't many mature bucks here when I bought it. It will be interesting to see if it is possible to grow them in this setting. If not, I have a pretty farm and I will either be content with what is here or hunt other places more. It is hard to buy land here so I doubt I would sell and try to trade up - but I suppose that would be an option. We have a lot of sweat in this place. You make a good point about public land. Interestingly, Amos found the two exact spots I would hunt on public land in this entire county without any help from me! I was really impressed with that. And he saw some very nice bucks on those places. Have a great day.
@@bill-winke thanks for responding, honestly being from the east coast I thought you could hunt anywhere in Iowa and kill giants lol. Just shows there is more to it then just showing up and killing a big one.
@Tbowman0864 big bucks are highly dependent on the landowners next to you. I live in Missouri right on the Iowa border. I'm lucky to get a 140 class deer every few years. If you have neighbors that all pass on younger bucks, you'll have a larger population of older bucks.
It will keep getting better. As bad as it was, it was better than 2023 (as far as the number of deer seen). Some of that was due to the fact that there were less acorns this year so the deer moved more. Thanks for the comment.
That is true, but as hunters and stewards of the land why wouldn’t we want to improve our property? By doing TSI, planting food plots, and adding water holes, not only are we potentially increasing our odds of success, improving our lands deer holding capacity, but also making our land more valuable. It’s not for everyone, but it’s very rewarding to put in the work, and reap the benefits. Hope this answered your question !
The problem is neighbors around me shoot every buck 2.5 years old if they can. If I manage my property and get them to spend as much daylight time there as possible they may survive the neighbors. I have only owned my property for 4 years and spend many hours working on it. My big buck sightings have increased every year and the neighbors keep saying they have not seen the number of big bucks around that they see now versus years ago. It is not coincidence!
Trying to make it better is a big part of the satisfaction that comes with owning the land. I have as much enjoyment just doing the land projects as I do hunting now. Maybe they don't all help a ton, but it is still part of the big picture of creating the best possible property. If it wasn't deer it would be ruffed grouse. Improving the habitat is the most satisfying part of owning the land.
All deer matter. All wildlife matters. Specific to deer, if you want more big bucks, then the habitat and health of all the deer on your property is important. Most properties that are deer hunted don’t really have much “good” deer habitat.
Mr. Carroll helped me back in March 2019 in West Tn. The man is awesome and knows his stuff! Thanks again Mr. Carroll!
I find it interesting the effort, time and money some put in trying to obtain great deer hunting. I don’t even put out game cameras. The only info I have on the deer herd is what I happen to see. I like seeing a mature buck for the first time while hunting. Not into all the high tech gadgets and extraordinary effort to track and grow deer. I enjoy the simplicity of hunting the way I did in my youth. To each his own,
God Bless.
Agreed, but there is also satisfaction in the land part - forget the deer. In some ways, the deer are just an excuse to do this stuff. If it wasn't deer it would be ruffed grouse. Some people just love the work related with owning land and the results that come from that effort.
I understand your point Bill. Working on and improving the land is very satisfying. Thank you
I look forward to seeing that video of everyone on your farm, should be some good information to learn from. Always a good sign when the dream farm series picks back up, the farm work is just so much fun!
Thanks Alex. I appreciate it. Have a great day.
Thanks for the video Bill. I look forward to that episode
Thanks Dave. Have a great day.
Hey Bill went through what your going through. 5 years it will turn the corner. Keep being a great land stewert. My only thing is cut cut cut cut timber. Thanks for the great contant
We are all so used to immediate results. I think bill/you will end up with a good farm in the end. Just might take a couple more years.
I think we will know a lot more in two years. That is when a lot of this work will start to take shape and the bucks will start entering the mature age classes - if they survive. Have a great day and thanks for the comment.
Big timber areas are hard to hunt. I grew up in Northeast Mississippi. Toughest hunting I've come across. Midwest in crop country, is completly different. Much easier hunting.
Yes, when the habitat is limited but there are good numbers of deer, those deer become a lot easier to hunt, especially after the corn comes out. Good luck.
I hunt big timber and you can put cameras out and get a picture of a decent buck and it could be a month before he comes back around.
I spent 8 hrs total in restaurants with jeff. Liked him personally but wish lot more time on property for the price. For people that eat and sleep this stuff I think we need to remember that you hunt what you have and the best might be a 2.5 yr old buck.
How much does he charge
That’s an expensive dinner date. Was gonna go with him back in 2015 but didn’t want to spend the $ after just buying the land. Wish I would have though, went with an in state guy that was a waste.
See more bucks which is randy vanderveen or tony lapratt.
I'm old school. Not into the deer farming stuff. All the new tech sours it for me. Now I'm old 70 hunted gun and archery and learned the woods without the tech. Shoot I took alot of good bucks with recurved and Bear Whitetail hunter compound! Used that till around 1990! But this turning hunting into what it is becoming nah not for me. I still just fill my 870 with 5 of those green Remington sluggers even though I live in a Rifle state (Wisconsin) it's more close up and challenging for me that way.
My first compound was the Bear Whitetail Hunter too. I saved my lawn mowing money to buy it. That was 1978, I think. I believe it was the year after they came out with it.
@bill-winke yup. I got mine second hand. Those big metal hangers lol. But it did work. A hole thru the lungs is a hole thru the lungs however it gets there.
I enjoy both deer strategy and farm strategy not sure which one more. My dnr forrester gave me nice plan to go by not so much targeted to deer but heavy TSI and invasive hsuckle mngmt. Im about 20m northwest of your old farm.
Keith, I enjoy the work on the land as much as the hunting now. That honeysuckle is bad news. Wipe it out before you do too much TSI or all you will have honeysuckle on that place. Good luck.
keithbuesing6912 Bill is right, be careful doing TSI with an existing honeysuckle infestation. Invasive honeysuckle likes sunlight. The TSI allows more sunlight to the forest floor and the honeysuckle will spread quickly into your woods.
If Bill Winke called me to come out and write him a management plan... I would focus a lot of effort on early successional "old field" habitat. This could be by allowing food plots to grow up... or utilizing more of an annual food plot rotation where you plant annuals and allow it to go fallow for 1-3 years. Rotate the food around the open ground. Currently Bill has great food... great hardwood timber... but little in between. The goat prairie is on the right track but the soils are are likely so poor everything grows slower there.
The in-between stuff is growing now - acorn seeding on 30 acres that are now 2 foot tall oak, with assorted weeds and browse species/shrubs (plum, chokecherry, ninebark, hazelnut) planted on another 11+ acres. The area around the apple trees is roughly another 20+ acres that is old pasture and growing back to more young apple trees. That is 61 acres excluding the goat prairie.
@ Maybe do an episode next summer showing the diversity of forbs growing in these areas?
Sir Bill, How can I find out more about your consulting services? Area, Fees, etc.?
Bill what's the smallest acreage you would recommend buying to start out owning hunting land
Whatever you can afford. You can ramp up from there. No lower limit. Good luck.
@@bill-winkethank you Sir
20 acres I’d say
@@SecrawOutdoors Im beginning to look for my first piece of land in Alabama. 20 to 40 acres is likely in my price range!
Hey Bill maybe I missed it when you first took owner ship of your new farm how many acres of land do you have
what would be the smallest parcel of land that someone could own to have whitetail deer herd with decent # let’s just say 20 deer how many acres land would one need to have hold that herd of 20 deer ???
Shawn, this started at 285, then went to 405 and then 625. The smallest parcel to hold that many deer is probably 80 acres - at least to hold that many in a healthy way in an average neighborhood. I believe if you are in a super high deer density neighborhood you can do it with less acres, but that is only because the deer don't have other options when they get too numerous. Holding 20 deer on 80 acres would be a solid goal - would take a good bit of improvement to habitat to increase browse and security and plenty of good food plots. Good luck.
Bill,
Who would you recommend for South Central, MS area for consulting?
Land and Legacy
Dr. Grant Woods would be another I’d look into. MSU idk if dr. Craig Harper does it, but man he has a lot of knowledge about habitat
These guys at Whitetail Institute operate well in the south being they are out of Alabama. They would be a good option. My role is only to help them out in the Midwest, not in the south. They have a pretty good feel for that. Have a great day.
That’s great, I love the habitat stuff. Do they do it as a group? Or you get one consultant? They all seem to have different areas of expertise?
I believe just Jody goes on the visits and the other two support him as needed via phone or email. Have a great day.
Bill I’m curious how your acorn planting effort turned out.
We will cover that this spring, Taylor. The acorns we planted in 2022 are doing just OK, but the ones we planted in 2023 are doing very well. The main difference, I think, was the growing season the year after the fall planting. We will go into more detail once everything starts growing again. Have a great day.
@ looking forward to that !
Hit the like button so we keep getting great information!
Bill would you ever admit that you’ve been disappointed thus far with the mature deer that’s on the property? I know it’s a hard pill to swallow but to watch every one have so much success on public land and land like Jared has bought less then a couple years it’s surprising to me how hard of a time you’ve had putting a big one on the ground. No offense it’s just been really eye opening
I’m fairly certain many of the deer Jared has killed recently are not from his farm..
I have said it a few times, but I hate to slam the neighborhood too much. There just aren't/weren't many mature bucks in this area. I have talked to the other landowners around here to find out what they are seeing and most are not serious deer hunters. There has been a strong tradition of gun hunting in this area where they shoot most anything (or possibly everything). So the overall pressure on the area has been high enough historically that there weren't many mature bucks here when I bought it. It will be interesting to see if it is possible to grow them in this setting. If not, I have a pretty farm and I will either be content with what is here or hunt other places more. It is hard to buy land here so I doubt I would sell and try to trade up - but I suppose that would be an option. We have a lot of sweat in this place.
You make a good point about public land. Interestingly, Amos found the two exact spots I would hunt on public land in this entire county without any help from me! I was really impressed with that. And he saw some very nice bucks on those places. Have a great day.
@@bill-winke thanks for responding, honestly being from the east coast I thought you could hunt anywhere in Iowa and kill giants lol. Just shows there is more to it then just showing up and killing a big one.
@Tbowman0864 big bucks are highly dependent on the landowners next to you. I live in Missouri right on the Iowa border. I'm lucky to get a 140 class deer every few years. If you have neighbors that all pass on younger bucks, you'll have a larger population of older bucks.
Stick and stay make it pay.
Tell yourself that there are no deer, and how to grow the deer herd? Your season was hard work, and limited deer sightings.
It will keep getting better. As bad as it was, it was better than 2023 (as far as the number of deer seen). Some of that was due to the fact that there were less acorns this year so the deer moved more. Thanks for the comment.
Water hole at every tree stand. Easy kills
It sure does seem like they focus on water during the rut. Have a great day.
Why not just go hunt the land you have as is?? Big bucks have been around for thousands of years, long before hunters became farmers.
That is true, but as hunters and stewards of the land why wouldn’t we want to improve our property? By doing TSI, planting food plots, and adding water holes, not only are we potentially increasing our odds of success, improving our lands deer holding capacity, but also making our land more valuable. It’s not for everyone, but it’s very rewarding to put in the work, and reap the benefits. Hope this answered your question !
little bit like only fishing one lure your whole life
The problem is neighbors around me shoot every buck 2.5 years old if they can. If I manage my property and get them to spend as much daylight time there as possible they may survive the neighbors. I have only owned my property for 4 years and spend many hours working on it. My big buck sightings have increased every year and the neighbors keep saying they have not seen the number of big bucks around that they see now versus years ago. It is not coincidence!
Trying to make it better is a big part of the satisfaction that comes with owning the land. I have as much enjoyment just doing the land projects as I do hunting now. Maybe they don't all help a ton, but it is still part of the big picture of creating the best possible property. If it wasn't deer it would be ruffed grouse. Improving the habitat is the most satisfying part of owning the land.
Disregard....just saw the link.
Sell! 😂
It seems like only big bucks matter. All the other deer are just vermin. Or rabbits. It seems like a big waste of time and resources.
All deer matter. All wildlife matters. Specific to deer, if you want more big bucks, then the habitat and health of all the deer on your property is important. Most properties that are deer hunted don’t really have much “good” deer habitat.
Most hunters don't see it that way.