Xeno-(KR) | Scientific Evidence For God | Talk Heathen 06.20
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- Опубликовано: 18 май 2022
- Talk Heathen 06.20 for May 15, 2022 with Kenneth Leonard and Katy Montgomerie.
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That is a long winded god of the gaps argument.
Yes lol. He could have cut to the chase. "I can't explain it. You can't explain it. Therefore God did it "
He literally said there must be a God in the gaps of what we know
Wwwaaaaayyyyyy too long
@@coffeetalk924 But if he doesn’t try to confuse people with over the top long evangelist babble, how will he ever get them to believe in something that doesn’t exist? xD
@@quintonsm2616 a
Xeno could have saved me 8 minutes of my life and just said "we don't know everything therefore god".
Transrationalism = "I get to just make shit up."
But you can say that in so many more words.
@James Henry Smith My aura/electricity type energy was shut down, but then I used evocation/radiant energy and I was just fine again. This demonstrates that you are factually wrong and you can't dispute me.
@James Henry Smith Uh who are you asking?
Yes, heard this bullshit all my life, it appears when you can accept "faith is the truth"! your brain is fried!
Xeno can't even do basic math right apparently.
1% + 99.9999% = 100.9999%, not 100%
I noticed that too...
- That guy is, according to himself, a programmer... somehow...
> I think he just added extra numbers past the decimal point to make himself sound smarter... He does things like that all the time...
I don't think that thinking is his strong point.
Yeah, I noticed that.
That’s Xeno in a nutshell.
I was going to ask the same thing
I thought I must have misheard him since it seemed way too obvious to mess up haha
Xeno has been reading the 'wisdom of chopra' quote generator again. Did someone tell him it's random text?
He's pretty much regurgitating a common apologetic (from William Lane Craig or Ray Comfort, I think) pretty much verbatim.
@@lnsflare1 yep. Most of them think he made sense. Which he didn't of course
"The universe has no fixed agenda. Once you make any decision, it works around that decision. There is no right or wrong, only a series of possibilities that shift with each thought, feeling, and action that you experience." -- Deepak
🙄🤢🤮
lol is that like the Jordan Peterson Word Salad generator?
Listening to Xeno is so exhausting
1. Establish that "Evidence" = Everything we don't know
2. Ask "Do you know everything?"
3. Say "There's your proof."
4. If that doesn't work invent a whole new reality no one has ever heard of.
That guy is apparently a programmer...
- Proof that you don't need to be smart in order to have a technical skill...
@@The5armdamput33 If indeed he is, the fact is that we have a number of reputable scientists who hold a god belief of some sort. It really just shows the human ability to compartmentalise knowledge, belief and understanding.
@@gazza595 -
I take issue with the idea that there are scientists who hold god beliefs, It is true that there are some people with scientific qualifications and who might work in technical, scientific, or academic occupations who also hold religious beliefs (which implies compartmentalisation - or Cognitive Dissonance as I would call it). However, such people have abandoned science when they adopt or profess a religious belief because there is no-one, anywhere in the world, who has concluded that a supernaturalist, theistic, god is the answer to the mysteries around us by using the Scientific Method. Saying that there are 'religious scientists' is like saying that there are mathematicians who believe that two plus two can equal five. Such people may be scientifically qualified in a certain field, but they have abandoned science in relation to their god-belief and I would define a 'scientist' as someone who uses the methods of scientific enquiry and the 'Scientific Method' to investigate the natural world.
1OO%--Pure Contradiction
For God $o loved the riminals that he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life
(John 3 : 1 6)
For he who does Wrong will Receive the consequences of the wrong which He has done
(Co|ossians 3 : 25)
yeah it's all BS
Kenneth, easily, by far, one of the most charitable, patient and long suffering sweetheart hosts... When he finally utters the word "bullshit", your time is just about up... and best believe you are, indeed, full of it.
Katy's expression when Xeno goes into his first word salad tailspin.. 😂
i think you mean at 10:01? :-)
You know what they call "transrational evidence" that's been demonstrated to be true? Evidence. Call back when it's evidence, Xeno.
Can you imagine waking up as Xeno and thinking, “yeah, I’ve really pulled this transrational thing together. Time to call a talk show.”?
No matter how far Xeno goes, he just never gets to where he's going...
I love that in the span of like 10 minutes, Xeno says he's come up with an idea he calls trans-rationalism, then asks the hosts if they've ever heard of it.
My brain is reeling with the realization of how thoroughly useless everything Xeno said is. It's truly disappointing that he thought this could be adding something to the conversation.
I've been told that there's something of value to be learned in every conversation. I'm highly skeptical of that claim.
I wish anything Xeno did could honestly be called “thought”.🤤
How about instead of engaging in these long complex and hypothetical arguments, god just reveal himself. There, problem solved.
We're told he did, through a religious zealot at a time in human history when scientific recording equiptment hadn't been invented yet and superstitions infested every corner of the world. Aren't you convinced?
@@coffeetalk924 lol I guess God only had enough teleportation tokens just for that one instance :3
Which god?
Zeus? Ares? Hermes? Hephaestus? Neptune? Brahma? Wotan? Yhwh?
@@serenaislinn4912 Whoever actually exists can be first lol
@@coffeetalk924 exactly 😃
“Somewhat of a new term I’m creating”, that’s great.
I thought Katy’s cat contribution was more useful than pretty much anything the caller said...🙂
I think Katy's cat is probably more rational than Xeno..... FFS "trans-rational" OR just make shit up.
@James Henry Smith yes, there was a cat. Cats are awesome- especially compared to imaginary sky friends...
@@pizzagogo6151 Three broad orders of biology - flora, fauna, and feline!!
"69 is a good number" - priceless trolling
any time you listen to a call from Xeno, that's about where you should set the bar. Even when Katy isn't hosting, she'll contribute more than this dickhead
I love Katy’s accent! I really appreciate this show and the truth it is trying to spread. Thanks to all involved. I try to push the wisdom of atheism also on a smaller scale.
That's Cool and all but the phrasing 'the wisdom of atheism, makes it sound like the wisdom comes from atheism when atheism is drawn 'from wisdom based in non-fallacious reasoning and an unbiased look on the world as it is and as it's shown to work.
Atheism is not a worldview but a facet of a worldview that is subject to each and every individual on the planet .. each one has their own and it may or may not even include supernatural beliefs even, depending on the atheist in question. 💁♂️
Just pointing it out incase someone were to pop in and attempt an intellectualy disingenuous argument over it with you.
There's a number of theistic trolls that want nothing more than to jump on the semantics and bury you in stupid of given the chance. 🤷♂️🤦♂️
Thank you for your positive reply and have a good day.) 👍
Anyone who, when asked to produce evidence, responds with a question, has already made themselves non-credible
Scientific evidence: bring forth the reliable predictability of your observation! Come on Xeno, what is your reliable prediction of a real phenomena that can only be based your novel interpretation?
Somebody needs to explain to Xeno that psychedelic use does not, in and of itself, make one intelligent.
Also, is it possible that he's a huge X-Files need and he's trolling?
"The truth is out there"
As Jan People’s would say; “this is painfull”. Xeno is a truly blissfull person.
"Transrational Evidence"
Deepak should be so proud of his pupil...
Yes, we once believed in many things in the distant past, that were later superseded by evidence. Xeno almost stumbles into the truth at 19:49. It's a shame that transrationalism is synonymous with supercredulity.
Xeno is so full of himself.
He thinks he is an expert on the subject(s) (this is coming from across multiple shows he called into on this date) but he has never really considered bouncing his ideas off of other people and willing to take feedback on the flaws on his ideas.
He's been calling into shows for YEARS. FFS Xeno....
I think he's just a bored troll although delusional is also possible.
Seems like he's too invested in his ideas to really consider if they're wrong.
Xeno really lacks self awareness.
A typical state of affairs for a rank egotist....
Poor critical thinking skills, bad epistemology and zero common sense sickness. Maybe he should have been vaccinated with education and prevented from internet access to pseudo-science where he likely contracted the illness.
At 7min is Xeno pretty much saying you don't know 99% therefore god?
That seemed to be the argument, yes.
Listening to this guy cost me some brain cells. Damn.
I'm typing this at 4:48 and I can already see that "draw a circle in a circle" BS.
The clover analogy was brilliant.
This guys whole bit sounds like the kind of conversations I would have back when I was in college when both I and my friends were stoned out of our minds.
So we don't know lots of stuff, therefore everything we don't know is true. But Katy's expressions when Xeno is making utterances makes this 22 minutes well spent.
Love your channel.
I’ve started a Xeno playlist
I managed to make it 8 minutes before my patience ran 100.9999 percent out.
Xeno's god tumbles dominos.
Domino's delivers.
Xeno's evidence... doesn't.
I enjoyed this conversation. I am glad xeno called you, because Matt would have shut this guy down in the first minute or two.
as he should be....
And he would've been right to do so...
@@nagranoth_ He would be logically correct to do so, but it would be much less entertaining.
“Mathematical evidence for god” is an absurd position to take.
Math proves the square root of -1 is a thing, but it doesn’t actually exist.
If his definition for "God" is in anyway related to the classical Christian definition, then science and mathematics have nothing to say about it. Science is about falsifiability, not unfalsifiability. And there is all the difference in the world between demonstrating a mathematical potential infinite and a reality based actual infinite.
Yes, "God" and the square root of -1 are equal, both being imaginary.
That is an imaginary number and it is used all the time in electronics. For instance in a tuned LC circuit (Inductance and capacitance) imaginary numbers are used to calculate instantaneous peak voltages which can be far greater than the applied voltage. Not only do they exist, they can kill you.
@@pretzelogic2689 shh you'll scare a theist with knowledge of the complex like that
Einstein has showed that sometimes equations turn out to be correct, sometimes it is incorrect. You need to perform the experiment to see if the predicted equations work. There cannot be a proof of God with only math. There has to be observations and data.
The square root of -1 exists. If it a mathematical representation that describes things that exist.
You can devise math for things that don't exist, or math that does not apply to anything. That would be incorrect math.
"You have to apply tranrationalism"
= You won't get there with reasoning. So to reach that conclusion, follow this nutty system instead.
I found the caller respectful and calm. In this call, it seemed like the caller had some ideas to try out, and he made a go of it. Rather than be bullish and arrogant, he tried out some ideas, listened, re-grouped, and tried again. I applaud him for his sincerity and collegiality.
I understand he is looking for someone to share a desert island with, maybe you would be interested?
Before I watch the video, I'm going to guess that Xeno is going to redefine God as something no one believes God is...
- Am I right or wrong?
I was wrong...
He decided to redefine evidence instead...
Nevermind.... He did both...
And he renamed 'irrational' to be 'transrational'.
T-shirt idea alert! "How you think is more important than what you know"!
I feel like anytime a caller on this kind of show decides to use a cartoon character name, you know you're in for some extra stupid shit lol
Kenneth's thumbnail from the video is perfect for this subject and the nonesense Xeno goes through
Xeno attempting to invent a “new form of evidence” is more than a clear demonstration of this guy’s dishonesty.
Translational is actually concept that exists.
It’s just philosophical nonsense though.
Just like everything else Zeno has ever brought up.
@James Henry Smith
He’s the king of hide and seek.
@James Henry Smith
Take your meds.
@James Henry Smith Did you forget to switch accounts there, dude?
Here is Xeno's ACTUAL definition for "evidence": Anything whatsoever that I present in an attempt to demonstrate my case.
For example...
If Xeno makes a claim of, All Glurps are Burfurkles. He can present a blue marble in support of this claim and call it evidence.
I hope Xeno listens to this video so he can actually hear the arguments he put forth, then hopefully, fingers crossed, he realises just how absurd his arguments actually are.
“I would rather have questions that can’t be answered than answers that can’t be questioned.” -- Richard Feynman
“Just because I don’t understand something, that doesn’t mean I’m willing to chalk it up to some fairy tale.” -- (TV Matt Murdoch/ Daredevil) (This is one of my all-time favorite quotes!)
Just because you want something to be true doesn't mean you have the ability to prove it to be true.
In his case he wants to put the idea out there that there has to be something true he can't prove so lets baffle everyone with that concept.
I think he just tried to reason it into existence and didn't realize how flawed it is to do so. People can be a bit too attached to their own ideas.
I love the obligatory Katie Kitty Cam moments in these videos.
Xeno isn't real, he's a troll.
It’s more meta than that, I think, he is unconsciously trolling himself 😅
He's a transrational troll.
“I believe it is an established maxim in morals that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false, is guilty of falsehood; and the accidental truth of the assertion, does not justify or excuse him.”
- Abraham Lincoln 1846
Baseless, self serving, ad hominem assertions to prop up a narrative... Not even once... Even from a fellow atheist...
"If you hate something, don't you do it too.”
- Eddie Vedder "Not for You"
You notice Xeno STILL didn't define evidence, but he demanded that the two define THEIR definition of evidence. Agreeing with them doesn't define your definition of evidence.
Xeno, Truth comes out simple.
How about *meta-rational* Xeno ? You know, beyond the rational, more mystical and into the realm of the mist enveloped land of religion !
Apologies if RUclips posts this on unrelated threads, it's not me , promise.
I think the key to this was to add to the definition of evidence '...can only be used to prove such case...' or something along those lines
The Lephrocan told me to put PB on both peices of the bread to prevent the jelly from making the bread soggy.
@James Henry Smith God created himself into a man to sacrifice himself to himself for a rule he created, and he knew it was going to happen because he predetermined everything = CHRISTIANITY
@James Henry Smith Thank you for your incoherent reply...Everyone has become dumber because of you. Is your God unable to stop evil, or chooses to let it prevail? 🤔
@James Henry Smith Why don't you worship Zeus, or the flying tea cup orbiting Saturn? Why does it have to be lil sorry suck boy Jesus all the time? What about Vishnu, Romulus, Zalmoxis, or Mithra?
@James Henry Smith Crazy people worship Jesus
I enjoyed the discussion about the definitions of evidence. Only one thing was missing: there are different evidence types, for different issues.
If the claim is about the weather yesterday, testimony by a few people about a storm might be enough.
If the claim is that a rock spoke and sang We Will Rock You, that's a bit trickier. Some testimony about that would lead me to ask if they took LSD, and if I could have some!
A claim that my spouse was unfaithful because 50 people saw her kissing another person yesterday, but my spouse and I were out of town together all day/night, I would distrust ALL of that testimony and evidence because of my personal experience. Yet, my personal experience that vanilla ice cream gives me heightened mental faculties shouldn't be enough to prove that to anyone else.
If 10 scientists and 1k religious leaders tell me that the entire world flooded 4500 years ago and present very little evidence, but 900K other scientists of various disciplines say that is not possible or have evidence to the contrary, I might believe the majority.
Different types of evidence. Different types of issues that require evidence.
The biggest question I have for Xeno is why does this mater? It seems like such a weird desperate argument to just be able to use the word god. He outright says that his "god" is just what he calls w/e it is that started the universe. Even if that's an event. So what's the point man? You stacked up a mile high on maybe's and could be's just so you can use the G word, to what end? Why do you need it!?
Math is an abstraction of logic. You have agreed upon rules that, if followed, can help you reach a conclusion. Just as with logic, however, in the end the conclusion is only as valid as the premises used. If I use the basic constant acceleration equations (where you have initial speed, final, time, distance, accel as the possible variables) to determine the speed of an object in free fall at any given time, it doesn't matter how correct my math is if I have acceleration due to gravity (a premise), as 5m/s2. A lot of people who say they have mathematical proof as standalone evidence, have no understanding as to how mathematics are used.
Omg Xeno AGAIN!
Perhaps god is a tiresome faulty reasoner that repetitively calls into athiestic venues???
My response to Xenos question about knowing everything in the universe.
Yes I do. You can take it on faith.
5:55 nice
Wow, xeno made me even more certain that no evidence exists.
he makes me even more certain that the institution housing him needs to be more restrictive re: access to the telephones.
Katy mind is fucking flawless when breaking down arguments!
Evidence does not equal “something I thought of.”
*Every Other Theist Caller:* _"I have word salad proof that God exists."_
The best argument for God is Gottfried Leibniz' "Rationalist metaphysics".
There are no "best arguments for God". They all come down to an argument from ignorance fallacy in one way or another.
@@coffeetalk924 Gottfried Leibniz isn't like other girls...he's different and special.
@@ready1fire1aim1 yes, I've been told the "ole gal" stumbled onto differential calculus at about the same time Isaac Newton had discovered/invented it. Both very intelligent scientists. Unfortunately, the classical definition for "God" doesn't allow for science. He was chasing his own tail.
@@coffeetalk924 you just made a well constructed point but the elephant in the room is you aren't gonna read anything Gottfried Leibniz has to say lol
@@coffeetalk924 just reeeead a bit. Nobody tackles Rationalist metaphysics like Leibniz 👍
His entire argument is:"we don't know everything therefore god".
The word salad is strong with this one.
Xeno: It's a little trick I use. It's called subtraction. Here, allow me to splain to you how it works...
Katy and Ken were Xeno's Pair o' hosts.
"Trans rational " good name for a spinoff show Katy, just saying 😎
As soon as someone uses the phrase “a simple question” in this context, I know they’re arguing in bad faith. Especially when they DEMAND a simple answer, which prevents the other person from pointing out all the assumptions built into their “simple” question.
It’s the two circle argument preachers use
The evidence that I can't give you is all right there in front of us.
What if you focus on the search for a 7 leaf clover, but the bias of your presumed outcome means you fail to notice a 5 leaf clover. Now you’ve chosen to appreciate the wrong clover, and the 5 leaf clover might punish you for seeking a false weed. Also, if you come across a watch in your search, I’ve misplaced mine. It would also be non-kosher to fertilize, as feeding nitrogen to a lawn would offset the clover weed’s natural nitrogen production. Botanical blasphemy.
And if you find $300 bucks, I probably dropped that.
@@shanewilson7994 LOL. I actually found $1k, not $300. I’ll send you the $1k. To me, it’s transrationally fair. You couldn’t have known I’d find the cash, and in that intervening space of time we just account for earned investment interest. The transrational school of finance dictates that I must give you the $1k.
So basically, " We are tiny. "
We don't know everything yet."
"There's shit we don't yet know and I obviate that some shit we don't know yet, might have evidence for god in it."
Absolute fxxxxng genius!!
Well, I'm sold!!
Lol.
The fundamental axiom is wrong. The call assumes we know almost nothing about a universe of knowable things, but the opposite is true - we know an extremely large amount about an un-knowable quantity.
What if there is literally nothing outside the things we know? We would know 100% of everything there is to know.
Scott Steiner calling in today
good grief, I've almost wet myself laughing...
Here we go again ! since xeno apparently believes empirical truth is subjective and that His subjective empiricism is superior to all others since he works in a tech vocation and therefore we all have great lessons to learn from him....
There is a "gap" in our human knowledge... And somewhere within that "gap" is evidence of a god...
- You can call this the "God of the Gaps" argument...
> Patent pending...
Aka an argument from ignorance fallacy
Is it not funny, how "Believers" are always EXPERTS on defining what a "God" is? They can tell you all day, what their favorite gods likes, and does not like. They are experts on the fundamental nature of any god, especially their own special, favorite god, among the thousands of other gods.
Reductio ad Absurdum? There is no method for measuring the quantity of the unknown. I may deduce that I know very little or, for all I know, I may know virtually everything.
Theres a huge clothes store I've never been in, and we dont know what sort of clothes it sells .. therfore there's a pair of 5 legged blue and pink trousers, made of solid molybdenum and with 9 pockets on the left knee..
I really hope that, if ever I'm in a courtroom staring down some charges that the prosecution's opening argument begins with: "what kind of evidence would convince you?" .....
....and the first witness put on the stand is "mathematics," and the direct examination is conducted by such a competent thinker that they have to ask questions like "we use math in science, right?" without a shred of irony suggested.
...I feel that that trial would only be seconded in terms of rapid dismissal as Matt's proposal: imagine a courtroom where you're the prosecuting attorney. God is accused of existing. Produce a defendant. Go...
To know something one must profess a belief in a claim which is demonstrably true.
"you don't know everything, therefore god!"
Alright, I'm convinced! Praise Krishna!
Transrationalism seems like something I would come up with, coming out of a coke binge.
This is the same guy that called in to the atheist experience claiming he had "signals: proof of god".
When you think you are smart it is a sad thing .
I've never heard a more painfully contorted God of the gaps... and that's impressive in it's own way...
He sounds like Harry seldon from the foundation.
Except he was real, and had a tangible plan (in the universe of the books, of course)
absolute truth is non conceptual
They should have said if they accept his idea of a first cause, where do we go from them there.
If we assume the amount of possible knowledge is infinite, we cannot possibly compute the percentage because any finite knowledge would reduce to 0%. I wonder where in any of that we can suddenly know a god.
Oh my god! now he's making your case for you.
Swing & a miss !
Using the courtroom argument as an analogue, the thiest prosecution (god claim) is the equivalent of « you cant prove the accused didnt commit the murder, therefore he is guilty ».
I can sum up Xeno’s idea of what constitutes “evidence” “I think, therefore it is true. That’s his whole point.
Dang it, Papa Smurf; ¿why'd you allow our disc, Life, skip?
P1 The Super Provey Evidence _must_ exist.
P2 TheSuper Provey Evidence isn't in the "Stuff we Know" box.
C The Super Provey Evidence is in the Everything Else box.
"Transrational Evidence", aka shit Xeno pulled out of his ass. Hope he was standing up.