Cheers Keith! Yes, such a disappointment, and as you say, a complete lack of ambition from a self-professed 'mid-range' manufacturer. It could be made so much better, so easily too and yes, they've had years to do it. 🤷♂️.
If I were a tool-manufacturer, I would ask woodworkers to review tools (obviously with an agreement, no videos yet) and then use their feedback. In return they get free tools, a mention and the premiere - plus preview of new tools. Anyway, one can dream.
Coming from another trade(automatic technician). I can see your points but I can also see that if you as a user can find a good & reliable machine shop the faults can be solved. 4:36 That can be machined down so that it's in alignment with the angled part. 4:54 The see through part could that be changed to 6 half-moon shaped dots in aluminium that would give a better precision. 7:01 It would be easy for the machinist to add 2 marks on each side of the tool. If the tool can be changed would it then be a more useful tool ? And what would the price for doing the milling be ??
Nice one Peter. Couple of things you said I know I've said myself over and over! Engineers/designers told the function having never used or seen in action. And the classic of a company could fix faults, add £100 to price and still undercut competition! It's bloody infuriating. Well done clearly demonstrating it's shortcomings.👌
As an amateur woodworker without a lot of money, I am so tired of having no midrange options for so many tools. It feels like too often you have a choice between a cheap tool for 100€ which is not good enough, or the great one for 800/1000 which is massive overkill for me. And the cheap tool is often almost good and would not need much to be perfect for me. It's like they think they won't be able to sell a midrange options because it will be compared to the cheap tool. It sucks.
@@eggsngritstn The real struggle in this is finding tools that have not been flogged. I worked out with the Festool rep in my area and the Fellow who does their repairs, what 2nd hand cost I'd have to negotiate to also be able to service the common tools for most common issues and still have a good deal. It's WAY lower than the market ask for Festool gear on marketplace... so it's not worth it. Where do you look and how do you examine what you find? I bought a near new metal 4 corner clamp today - $20, looks near new, $55 + postage to buy. These sorts of purchases are where I find looking around is worthwhile.
@@michaelrobinson9643 I generally buy only models that are recent. And, yes, you have to be patient. I've bought a couple of dogs; it's a part of the deal.
In this price range you could buy the Jessem dowel jig and use a hand drill. I picked one up off Craigslist for $100 from a guy who preferred the Dowellmax, but that’s a different price point. The Jessem appears accurate and well made.
I find that the problem with dowels is that you get no room for error in any direction. Being a handheld tool where you are lining up a pencil line, there will occasionally be some side to side misalignment. Height wise, this isn't as much of an issue as the hole is determined by a fence but with side to side it isn't. The next misalignment issue can come if you don't glue up your work pieces fast enough after making the dowel holes. Even when cutting dowel holes on a dowelling machine in a workshop (clamped down to the bed and side fence for accuracy), you then are affected by expansion and contraction in the wood, causing your 2 workpieces to occasionally misalign. Biscuits and dominoes have some side to side play and overcome this. I think for the DIYer or someone who doesn't want to spend 100s or 1000s, a router with a slot cutting bit or a cheap biscuit jointer is the best option. Another great video btw!
Biscuits aren’t dowels/tenons. They only assist with alignment and add nothing to joint strength. Dowels and dominos/loose tenons add joint strength as well as assisting alignment
Peter I wanted you to know that I picked up the DDF40. And I can definitely say it has been a game changer for my shop. The DDF40 has greatly increased my throughput. I do appreciate the time you take to review different machines. Hope you’re having a great day.
Interesting review. I sent mine back a few years ago and saved, and saved, and got the DF500 in the end. I tend to find when I need dowels, that a simple jig does the job well and simply. Even the worst jigs I've used produce an acceptable result - and overall accept the time needed to make the joints. What trend has not nailed for me is the time-saving as some of those niggles you hightlighed would slow you down if you want to avoid mistakes. The domino is fast and accurate (and a precision tool) and justifiable in those terms if time is money.
Thank you for doing this review! I was thinking back and forth about buying this duo dowler, after I've seen and heard good things about several of their other tools. You saved me a lot disappointment and frustration.
Hi, too be honest, after watching most of the videos about this tool, including the 5+ years old ones, to me it seems they have addressed some of the flaws. I see not such a big problem having to fix the glass with markings. People saying they will save for a Mafell/Festool don't have the arithmetic in place, you cannot "save up" for something 5 times more costly. I will take the risk with this one, I have some non standard angles to drill for a lounge chair. Have a good day!
These are important videos for so many woodworkers. Thank you. Seems like the worst of both worlds. Not cheap but cheaply and somewhat thoughtlessly made.
Hi Peter, great video as always 👍 for some reason I was hoping this tool would do well. But there you go, you have saved me some money👍 all the best mate.
Just picked up two of these machines and both are spot on. I set one up for the face of cabinet part and one up for the end of a cabinet part. They work very nicely. Don’t see any of the issues you’re referring to. I think it’s a great cost effective way of building cabinets. Have a great day 😊
That’s great to hear, but unless they’ve resolved the principal design issues since I made this video over a year ago, then there’s still no way to precisely align the tool (eg referencing against an end of a workpiece) without visually lining it up against a pencil mark, and no way to calibrate or adjust the marking in the fence. 🤷♂️👍
Absolutely the way a tool review should be done. Real world use over time with helpful advice on the details. Thank you. Can't tell you how tired and frustrated I am with typical unboxing videos with "some guy" whose opinion is based on whatever the manufacturer tells him it is. At least use the tool and give an informed opinion. Thanks again. Your competent views and experience keep me watching.
Great video on the tool Peter. As you know I fell for the charms of this tool years ago but soon discovered it made life harder not better.....and bought a Domino. It really makes you wonder what conversations took place at the Triton design offices.
A few years ago I bought a Freud doweller for $100 Cnd. They were selling off old stock to bring in a newer model. I have not regretted the purchase. I have the 3 standard sized bit sets, 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" and I have used them all to great effect.
Fantastic and honest review, Peter! Thanks! 😃 You know, I've made a bunch of tools for myself, even a dremel tool that still works great... And tools like this makes me think that it's the best way to do things, really... All you would need is a good dc motor, a power supply, 2 drill chucks and a few other things that you can get pretty cheap from China... Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Hi Peter, I have this doweller and made 2 gallows brackets with it a few days ago for a door canopy but it is a laborious thing to use and line up but it did serve its purpose and the job turned out well. A few tweaks and it could be great as you say.
Coming from another trade(automatic technician). I can see your points but I can also see that if you as a user can find a good & reliable machine shop the faults can be solved. 4:36 That can be machined down so that it's in alignment with the angled part. 4:54 The see through part could that be changed to 6 half-moon shaped dots in aluminium that would give a better precision. 7:01 It would be easy for the machinist to add 2 marks on each side of the tool. If the tool can be changed would it then be a more useful tool ? And what would the price for doing the milling be ??
You could forgive a £80 Parkside version needing a little tweaking to get working. I like using dowels in my projects but can't really justify investing in a Festool/Mafell at this point in my hobby. Such a shame this Triton is so wonky as I'd definately get one at that price point without these easily fixable flaws. Screwfix have one on clearance sale for £168 but if it's going to give inconsistent results I think I'll stick with basic jigs for a few years until someone comes up with a decent alternative. Seems like there's a real gap in the market for those who like the idea of a Domino but don't have the money to burn on it.
I've had my share of falling supermarket tools and am much more considerate about buying them. A few turned out to be quite OK, but some didn't even survive one project or build from start to end without partial if full failure. Without brutal misuse, I might add.
Great video. Thanks, Peter. As a keen amateur woodworker, each time I look at a new power tool, like most recently a biscuit jointer, it’s a choice between the very cheap end of the market, that experiences a la Black & Decker drill and Tacklife circular saw have taught me to avoid, and the higher end that would be very nice, but can’t justify the cost. I did recently look at buying 2nd hand higher quality tools, but don’t want to end up with alignment issues or other regrets around the kit potentially having been dropped or damaged by some other means. I usually end up going with Erbauer corded, that does the job, albeit ‘clunkily’. Or stretching a little further with Bosch blue for cordless which does OK for me, but I was disappointed that they don’t seem do a biscuit jointer. And I have often thought, as you said, there’s a gap in the market for a mid-range given the huge delta in cost and quality between the cheap and professional ends of the spectrum. Maybe one of the brands will latch on to it sooner or later.
Thanks! I do find it is bizarre that a self-professed 'mid-range' manufacturer only wants to compete at the entry-level, or slightly above. No ambition! 😂 👍
I have a dowelling jig made by Wolfcraft. It is usable for dowels and to make 32 mm shelf support holes. Made several cabinets with this tool and it works great. For the DIY market this is a nice solution. It is of coarse quite manual and not as fast as a machine solution is but it does the job just fine.
I'm so glad you published this video when you did. I was about to buy one of these as I have a large desk project coming up. I couldn't find a decent universal cam lock jig anywhere, and I've always preferred dowels to biscuits, so I was about to buy one of these as I've always found Triton tools excellent for the money. Safe to say I won't bother buying one now.
I was given one and when I tried it out, I found that the drills were out of alignment with the top folding fence. This results in the holes being drilled on different centre lines relative to the edge of the board. Like you did with the plastic window Peter, I dismantled the fence system and elongated holes in an effort to align things a little better. I certainly would not part with hard earned dollars for one of these.
The fence was out if alignment on mine too. I fixed that by removing the front housing and two internal locating pins before reassembling it to be parallel, then tightening up the four bolts. The absence of the pins offers just enough room for adjustment. Even then I ended up with the Mafell DDF40 due to the other limitations Peter mentions in his excellent video.
Coming from another trade(automatic technician). I can see your points but I can also see that if you as a user can find a good & reliable machine shop the faults can be solved. 4:36 That can be machined down so that it's in alignment with the angled part. 4:54 The see through part could that be changed to 6 half-moon shaped dots in aluminium that would give a better precision. 7:01 It would be easy for the machinist to add 2 marks on each side of the tool. If the tool can be changed would it then be a more useful tool ? And what would the price for doing the milling be ??
But at £175 / $200 why should the user have to do that? On a $50 supermarket special, sure, but at this price it should be better than this, don’t you think? 🤷♂️👍
Wow thanks Peter, I was actually seriously thinking of getting one of these as I was really impressed by the TRA01 router. Your review of the doweller has now confirmed to me spend a little more and go quality so its going to be the FESTOOL DOMINO without a shadow of doubt. Once again thanks for an in depth and proper review.
Thanks for taking the time and spending the money to do this useful review Peter ! I guess I'll stick with my 30 y/o wolf dowelling jig and my similarly ancient Bosch GFF22A biscuit jointer for now then !
Hey Peter. Hope all well. I sold mine a while ago. I basically found the same issues you explained. I changed the alignment plate thingy, put the side lines in with my dremel and added a handle to the front. The one niggle I couldn't sort was the bits weren't 100% square. It was only a small amount. I thought it was doing OK... then I purchased a domino. Day and night...😂😂. Totally agree there is a gap in the market... introducing the TMW lightning dowller?? 😂😂😂
I’ve got the first generation mafell doweller too. I paid £300,second hand about 4 years back,fantastic machine,no regrets. Not all triton tools are rubbish,I have their thickness planer and their very,very powerful 1/2” router mounted under my router table,great tools and relatively cheap. Maybe triton should either develop this machine to a decent standard or disassociate themselves from such appalling crap. Great vid,Pete.
Thanks John. Big fan of the TRA001 router myself, had one slung under the bench for a decade or more. Solid workhorse, makes it all the more puzzling why they think this is adequate. 🤷♂️👍
I'd be okay with having a hack at this given that some of the issues are fairly easy fixes (the window and side marking). Even creating a metal shim to bring the fence in line would be worth it given, as you point out, that getting something better suddenly goes into insane price territory. However, the most important question is is the machine accurate? Is it jiggly? Is the fence actually square?
Interested to see your views. I've had the duo doweller for a couple of years and found it OK with no real complaints but wouldn't rave about it either. I've not had any experience of a Domino, Lamello or Maffell version to compare with.
Poor timing on my part Peter as I actually bought one of these about 2 weeks ago. I have noticed all of the same issues that you mentioned with the addition of 1 other serious issue: the 2 drill bits are at very slightly different distances from the fence. Whether this is an issue with the fence or the placement of the bits I'm not sure. When joining 2 pieces it results in really poor alignment. For example when edge joining 2 boards, board 1 will be higher than board 2 at one end and lower at the other. I can no doubt fix this but it takes time and effort and I shouldn't have to do it for a tool of this price!
Sorry to hear that Nathan. I had an extreme version of your issue on the first doweller I bought, and combined issues on the next two. Honestly, I'd return it and try to get another - though there's no guarantee the replacement would be any better, sadly!
Nice review. I've had my eyes on this as a stronger joining alternative to my trusty Dewalt biscuit jointer I use for alignment purposes only (edge bands, face frames, etc.). I agree with your findings and appreciate the video. I've got the Triton mini spindle sander that I'm actually quite happy with for the job it does.... seems well made. I'm still debating a purchase of this tool, as it seems to be built okay, meeting my needs. Fixing the shortcomings appears to be relatively easy to do. I'd love to see you do a video on that.
Great assessment Peter. I've given up on Triton stuff after trying their TPL180 planer which was similarly poorly designed and badly made. The principles used for fundamental processes such as retaining the blades were laughably poor and even when it did work, it was impossible to get a consistent cut. In the end, what was left of it went back to Amazon along with an engineering report on its deficiencies. Subsequently, orange and silver has become one colour scheme I will never consider for power tools, a policy which your video reinforces. Once again, thanks for spending, nay wasting your money so we don't have to. It's really appreciated.
Thanks for yet another brilliant and informative video Peter. You've highlighted some very fundamental flaws in this tool that as you say wouldn't have been very difficult for the manufacturer to get right. I think this tool is off my list at least for the time being, oh well I'll just have to keep on using my jig.......
As a weekend warrior a Festool domino is beyond my budget. Last time you reviewed the triton it put me right off and so I chose a manual dowelmax jig which works well. However, it is always on my mind for something more automatic. Your review as reinforced my view that the triton is just not the answer and maybe one day I can warrant a domino. Appreciate your insight.
If you enjoy woodworking and have a halfway decent workshop with the ambition to enjoy work I'd recommend to buy tools min. 2 steps more expensive, than you think to need. The Mafell Duo doweler is such an example. Using it since 15 years I wished having bought it much earlier. This is a precision tool, which is a joy to use
You would think these tool company’s would give some of the R&D first run products to people who will be using there new tool and get all their feed back before final the production run . To give everybody a tool worth having and to keep their company name and reputation from being shouted down. Keep up the fantastic vlog Peter.
Dowel Max, very accurate and flexible system. But not speedy and has been my go to joiner for years as I can’t justify a Domino (I’d like to). Great vid thanks Peter…
Hello, I bought the Dowelmax a couple of years ago from Canada. It’s very well made and a quality tool,BUT, I don’t find it intuitive to use and mistakes can be made if you don’t use it on a regular basis. Then there’s the problems with the dowels themselves, I found it difficult to dry fit them despite the 10mm dowel holes are drilled with a 10.1mm drill. I ordered the 8mm kit, (8.1mm drill) but the tightness of the dowels was the same. I found that if I put 10-20 dowels on a piece of kitchen towel, put them in the microwave for 20secs, it drew out some moisture and it shrinks them slightly making it easier to fit. I now keep them in an airtight container. But after all this I wouldn’t use them on a large project as there’s absolutely no wiggle room. I’d love a Domino, but at my age and now only doing DIY work, I can’t really justify one. 😢
@@maxbee4460 I had the same issue and like you I dry the dowels out before use and store them similar to yourself. I did at first struggle with its use but I found a lot of RUclips vids which helped me gain confidence in the tool. It is very accurate but dowels don’t have the wiggle room the Dominos have. I have the confidence to use it for many different scenarios, dry fitting remains tough and I’ve built furniture, internal doors and repaired furniture with it over many years. Great to hear how you are solving some of the issues and thanks for the reply. Like most tools and especially Peter with many years of experience makes things look too easy. Kindest regards Mike
Hi Peter, I have one of those dowellers and mine is also inaccurate. It would be good to see you do another video with more upgrades to this tool. Cheer. 👍🏻
Good video as usual. I dont mind playing around with some of the cheaper tools to get better use from them as it can be quite an interesting challenge. But you are 100% right in saying you should not have to do anything to a tool that costs £175. I have never owned a Triton branded product although recently I did consider a couple. Definately glad I hesitated now!
Some of their tools are pretty good, I have the scheppach oscillating sander that seems identical to the Triton and I love it. A friend has their thicknesser and for the price it's a great deal IMO. But like many other decent brands they also seem to make some questionable products.
@@10MinuteWorkshop Really ? What did you dislike about it ? For my use the belt sander works great, it's one of my favorite tools. I rarely use it in spindle mode though, mostly because I find the spindles don't last at all and remove almost nothing.
Great selection of all your Videos from 5 years ago to the present day. I myself spent 24 years in the Army 15 years as a pro photographer 10 as a British Army SURVEILLANCE /COMBAT CAMERA team and then as a freelance in Civie street. I spend a great deal of my current time dismantling wooden furniture that I have brought at auction as it's cheaper than buying wood it from a local yard especially hardwood, my tools, and power tools are Dewalt table saw drills and mostly....... Erbauer I find them robust and to the point no frills I have seen some of your comparisons, how would you rate them as general tools power tools the Erbauer Chop saw, bit of a nightmare getting a 90degree cut , thanks for your time
Thanks! I have a couple of Erbauer tools, they seem pretty good - the bigger plunge saw is a dead ringer for the Triton version, but lack of spares is a concern if you want a longer-term investment. Then again I've used some Triton spares on the Erbauer without any issues! 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thanks. I have just Snagged a bargain Erbauer plunge saw Brand New £100, we will see when it arrives just halfway through your Track saw series fantastic info....Thanks again
CANCEL that in my haste to grab a bargain i did not read the small print image was a catalogue item the acatual item is second hand with no spares ......lesson learnt
I had a similar issue a ywar ago with the Triton track saw, 3 saws from 3 vendors, first had a manufacturing defect, the second and third both had both clearly been returned previously and sold as new with various issues. My guess would be the UK is just a throw away market for them. The design weirdness looks like they had the Mafell doweller to design from so copied the crenelation and didn't see that the end of the fence is the center mark on the Mafell, like you said no idea on the use of the original tool.
Excellent review, thank you Peter. Your comment about Triton's manufacturer being told to produce a tool that they didn't understand was probably closer to the truth than you realised. I was given a pencil with an eraser at one end at a hotel in Kazahkstan. Clearly the chinese company that made them had been shown a photograph of the pencil and proceeded to make them based on this. The 'eraser' was pink plastic!
Excellent review! Anyone thinking of buying it would now know exactly what to expect. I'm with Peter in being baffled at engineering design choices. Often I see in a product two choices that would cost the same to design and build, yet the company chooses the far-less functional option.
A friend of mine kindly leant me his triton doweller. After struggling with it for an hour I just went back to settin out with a square and pencil and drilling the holes myself. If it had some basic, accurate settings on the machine it would have been spot on and I would have bought one myself. Quite frustrating to have a machine that's meant to make a precision task quicker and more simple , only to not have the basics to do so.
Hooked on wood has a good video on a doweling jig (think by WNEW) that does a great job and almost as fast as this machine. Seems to me the best affordable option on the market.
Interesting review Peter. It is only once you get to use the premium tool brands do you realise how much the little things make the difference, such as the marks on body to line things up. Triton as a brand I find baffling. Their router and work holding devices as great. Tim from ‘The Restoration Couple’ has the massive plane he likes and was good value. I have the jointer which is very noisy and I would have liked a little wider cut capacity but it was not like I did not know that when I bought it. It just means it is not a brand I would to as a first choice because they have a few really good tools in a range which has flawed examples throughout
Thanks Doug. Yep, I had a big old Triton TRA001 router under my bench for years, never missed a beat, the plunge saws are OK, basically a slightly fancier version of the old Titan, and that planer looks like a beast! I had the oscillating sander and wasn't overly impressed... 🤷♂️
I have several dowel jigs and the concept of this tool would be great if they would at the very least listen to your evaluation of it. As you say there is a market for a good tweener tool. I have several Triton hand tools and fit and finish does not seem to be their goals.
Fair play mate that was a very good run through review, agree its baffling why the makes sense , common sense design requirements are just not taken into account. But, unfortunately as is with many different areas , this seems to be the way things are these days. Anyway nice video Pete
For years I resisted buying a dowelling jig because of the same issues. Recently on the strength of a RUclips video I bought a jig system which is accurate (you use the included drill bits and locating pins). It wasn't cheap and works well for someone prepared to take a bit of time. Too slow however for profession level output. So whether it is a jig or a power tool, jointing systems are mostly rubbish and to get past the rubbish zone takes cubic dollars. Triton make decent routers, pity this is so un-engineered. Different contract manufacturers maybe?
Believe it or not but those Tritons are hard to get here in Canada! Recent video by Bourbon moth used the doweller so not sure if that boosted sales. Rockler in USA sells them and a recent notification indicated stock but they sold out quite quickly. They also don’t ship to Canada. As an alternative to the domino this seems reasonable and hey if it works for ikea then how bad can it be
Glad you did this review Peter but, your 4th Triton doweller? My first experience was enough to convince me to never purchase another Triton power tool - ever. Poorly designed with even poorer manufacturing quality - what a combination. I looked at the new model at last years IWF and it seems they made some improvements but still has a long way to go. In the US, Grizzly markets a dual dowel machine but with a side switch at under $100. Looks similar enough to be made by Triton though. Either way, both are a no-go for me as experience has taught me which brands to stay away from as it is usually a waste of money. Steve
Thanks Steve. First 3 were returned pretty fast, and I moved on to something else. This one just popped up on my radar not so long back and thought it might be worth a look, as I'd just picked up the old Mafell. Triton's a real mixed bag; the big old routers were bulletproof, had one under my bench for a decade or more and never missed a beat. 💪 👍
You're right, I would be in the market for one of those in yellow or a turquoisey livery. I don't mind the odd adaptation, but that fellow looks unfellelable. I might have bit the Mafell bullet, were I not able to "get by" with other means.
Have to say, having used the latest Mafell for a while, and now owning one of the originals, I'd look elsewhere - unless it had to be dowels vs eg Dominos. 🤷♂️ 👍
@Peter Millard I tend to use biscuits myself. Considering the price gap I think a few odd adjustments might be the way to go, money is getting hard these days.
A very fair review. Nice work, Peter. You did everything you could to give this tool the benefit of the doubt but it still has some critical shortcomings. Not a tool worthy of the price.
well explained, Peter! I own a festool domino (yes, it costs a lot, but I still have one kidney left) and I was wondering if there are things that you can do with a doweller and/or biscuit joiner that a domino can't do?
Triton was originally invented and made in Australia. They were great tools. After the original Triton brand sold out, there has been a continual downhill slide. I still have two of their original routers. Excellent tools. I won't be parting with those.
A great review. I am just in the market for a joining tool like this but having seen your review now I will wait and save up some money to get me the Domino. Thanks a lot!
I'd have to check to be sure, but I'd say it's pretty much 100% to be Chinese. Like the computer I'm writing this on, the cameras and lenses I shot the video on, the microphones that recorded the sound etc.. etc.. So not the country of manufacture to blame really, more the standards that were set by the brand. 👍
Great video/review. Thanks for sharing. Did you contact Triton about all these drawbacks/missing/non-complete features/functjions? They should pay you your weight in gold.
Still can't beat the Record 148 dowlling jig for versatility, accuracy, and dependability. If you must use dowels. I'm old enough to remember when dowel rod came in various lengths. You cut it by hand to length and finished the ends with a "cone cutting" tool in a hand brace. Then cut a slot along the dowel length with a tenon saw. To make the most of the Record jig you needed at least 4 bush carriers and the drill bushes in both metric and imperial. With extra rods of course. Cost a pretty penny in the end. Though Record did provide the metric bushes free when I asked to buy some from them. Those were the days when customer service actually meant something!
I have had the Mafell double dowler for about 2-3 years now, still my favourite tool, absolute pleasure using it, especially considering its accuracy. The main reason I went for it is the standard size dowels and how easy it is to find them in various different shops.
@@custempo3040 ah, ok. I've got the Domino, and I've not yet used up the box of a loose tenons I bought with it. I'd not considered that you can buy dowels in B&Q. Cheers for the insight!
Great video Pete, it would be interesting to see if they pay attention and listen to your views. Hope you get some feedback from this and they improve the performance of this tool. Cheers,all the best.
Don't know who owns triton but when they brought out the work centre out c 1984 there was a 3 hour video came with it with the inventor demoing it there was nothing like it at the time seem to have sold out for the money...
Hi Peter, I have emailed Triton tools Australia and encouraged them to view your excellent review of the doweling tool. Hoping for but not expecting a reply on this request, only time will tell.
I came to similar conclusions about the quality of Triton tools with the TRA001 Router which I bought after watching you tear down your old router table. It literally shook itself to bits and blew up after a couple of jobs making shaker doors with mdf. I received a full refund from Triton UK without even sending the tool back which demonstrates the level of confidence they have in their products. They won’t publish my review, but I’ve seen similar complaints elsewhere, and the new TRA002 router seems to be plagued with similar quality issues from what I’ve seen on RUclips.
Triton, Evolution, Erbauer, and, recently, Trend, plus probably other 'prosumer' tools - I've had to return them for instant replacement or taken the money and gone elsewhere. Some people get lucky with the quality control bell curve and have a good enough tool for life. I did keep an Erbauer jig saw - bought at the same time as a seriously dangerous 12" double bevel sliding mitre saw that they told me to return instantly - the jig saw is working fine with dust extraction remarkably good. The replacement Trend T4, original bought to work with Peter's Domino jig, is OK and much better finished than the first one and it came with 2-year warranty and with safe cut out when unplugged - quite a change in the product and quality compared with less than a year before. At least customer services with each of those products has been no quibble so they must live with their QC but, I gather it can be more difficult in USA to get an immediate replacement
@@cuebj Agreed, I haven’t been overly impressed with Trend either. I replaced my router with a similarly priced Makita which is my go to brand for quality at good value. Customer service at Triton was also dire. I initially complained when I nearly lost my fingers due to it turning on by itself. It took them 6 weeks to respond by which time it had blown itself up (not a bad thing in the interest of my own safety), and it took them another month or so to get the refund sorted. Terrible brand I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone.
That's a shame. My TRA001 has been stellar. Very powerful and easy to fit into a table when required without a lift. Mine's only about 2 years old but has been used a lot.
When flaws like these are present, then they're most likely by design. Only a few companies own the production lines, and the majority are only rebrands. As a shareholder to save the name of a quality brand, you don't want a rebrand to compete with it. So products of rebrands need to have flaws by design.
Great video Peter and thanks for your honest opinion. Interested to see if you sent that video to triton and what they said. Also what is your doweling jig?
I appreciate your trails and tests. Seeing this one somehow triggered me to write this comment. My question is, have you, before you sending this vid out, contact the manufacturer to provide your suggestions (which all valid btw) to them and took in consideration what they will do with it? Burning a tool is so easy done when it’s not convenient for your purpose , unless you take the effort to contact the manufacturer and listen what they have to say. If they do neglect your advice than it’s ok.
Hi Robert. Firstly, nobody's 'burning' a tool here - though as I say in the video there are plenty of other vids here on RUclips where the tone is a lot less favourable than mine. I'm a customer, I bought three of these about five years ago, and I wanted to see if Triton had actually paid any attention to the many videos that have gone before, and improved this at all. This one is better, but not good enough, I feel, to justify the asking price; it's not a matter of being 'inconvenient' for my purpose, but a fundamental lack of attention to the basics of how a tool like this is used, and what it's used for. As I say, I think it's a missed opportunity not to make the simple improvements that could make this tool not only workable, but genuinely good value and at a much higher asking price. But I'm under no compulsion to do Triton's work for them - wether that's the work of the designers, manufacturers, or social media managers; they can get in touch with me if they choose to. Cheers, Peter
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thank you for the explanation. I understand what you say and if a tool is not meet certain standards you would expect them to have, well nobody likes that. And I agree with what you pointed out in the vid. At the same time, I am not in favour of unilateral criticism without having heard the other side first.
Assuming it's better engineered than the Triton (a low bar) it's still only a couple of hundred quid less than the Mafell tbh, so given their indifference to sales - there's only one formal distributor in the UK (Ney.co.uk) and like Virutex they just don't seem to be interested in individual sales the UK market - then I think anyone interested should vote with their feet any buy the Mafell new if they have the means, or used if not. 👍
I’ve been saying for years that the people who design tools most likely never use tools. If I was a tool manufacturer I’d go to the users and ask what they’d like to see.
This certainly wasn't designed by the same design team that designed their plunge routers. The routers have a whole plethora of great features, like automatic spindle lock, safety latch on the power switch, twist grip plunge, and so much more, even on the small model.
@@10MinuteWorkshop I have the small one (MOF 001) in the extension I built for my Dewalt DW745, and the spindle lock makes it a breeze to change bits while mounted in the table. That, and the ability to adjust the height from above the table was the 2 main reasons why I bought it. I also bought 12mm and 1/2" collets for it. It is mounted in an adapter plate from Rockler, specifically designed for the Triton. My Makita palm router was too weak, and my Bosch POF 1200 AE lacked pretty much all the required features for table mounting. So the Triton was a no-brainer for my small garage workshop.
I suppose the thing to do is, buy this tool, and find a friendly home machinist who can mill the sides of the fence to align with the body etc, and do the few other mods to make this into a £500 doweller without actually spending that much. Job done.
Except it’s already £175, and if you can get a friendly home machinist to do all that for less than another £175 (£350 being what I paid for my Mafell doweller) then let me know because I can keep them very busy! 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop As a retired engineer, with a fully equipped workshop, I often do these kind of jobs for friends in exchange for a little work from them. I suppose it is because of this that I tend to think that a lot of people in the various trades will know someone who knows someone who can. Maybe I should buy a Triton doweller and do the mods you describe as desirable, and see how long it takes me.
![Festool Domino, Mafell Doweller or Lamello Zeta? [video #360]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m78BZHu-uuA/mqdefault.jpg)
![I bought them all so that you don't have to! [video 589]](/img/1.gif)
Thanks for taking the plunge and reviewing this tool so we didn't have to buy it and find out all those flaw.
Ha ha, 'taking the plunge' ... very good.
Excellent review. They've had years to correct these problems, and the fact that they haven't just goes to show their lack of ambition. Utter madness
Cheers Keith! Yes, such a disappointment, and as you say, a complete lack of ambition from a self-professed 'mid-range' manufacturer. It could be made so much better, so easily too and yes, they've had years to do it. 🤷♂️.
Now you two have both pointed out their problems they will be having crisis meetings on Monday.
@@AdamFahn (about who to blame and how to discredit that Millard guy, as he clearly doesn't know what he's talking about....)
If I were a tool-manufacturer, I would ask woodworkers to review tools (obviously with an agreement, no videos yet) and then use their feedback. In return they get free tools, a mention and the premiere - plus preview of new tools. Anyway, one can dream.
Coming from another trade(automatic technician). I can see your points but I can also see that if you as a user can find a good & reliable machine shop the faults can be solved.
4:36 That can be machined down so that it's in alignment with the angled part.
4:54 The see through part could that be changed to 6 half-moon shaped dots in aluminium that would give a better precision.
7:01 It would be easy for the machinist to add 2 marks on each side of the tool.
If the tool can be changed would it then be a more useful tool ? And what would the price for doing the milling be ??
Nice one Peter. Couple of things you said I know I've said myself over and over! Engineers/designers told the function having never used or seen in action. And the classic of a company could fix faults, add £100 to price and still undercut competition! It's bloody infuriating. Well done clearly demonstrating it's shortcomings.👌
Thanks bud! Yes, infuriating, really - it could be so, so good, but they just don't seem to care. 🤷♂️
As an amateur woodworker without a lot of money, I am so tired of having no midrange options for so many tools. It feels like too often you have a choice between a cheap tool for 100€ which is not good enough, or the great one for 800/1000 which is massive overkill for me. And the cheap tool is often almost good and would not need much to be perfect for me. It's like they think they won't be able to sell a midrange options because it will be compared to the cheap tool. It sucks.
Exactly! 👍
Agree. My response has been to buy second-hand tools from the higher-end suppliers, and to adapt the less expensive ones as needed.
@@eggsngritstn The real struggle in this is finding tools that have not been flogged. I worked out with the Festool rep in my area and the Fellow who does their repairs, what 2nd hand cost I'd have to negotiate to also be able to service the common tools for most common issues and still have a good deal. It's WAY lower than the market ask for Festool gear on marketplace... so it's not worth it.
Where do you look and how do you examine what you find?
I bought a near new metal 4 corner clamp today - $20, looks near new, $55 + postage to buy. These sorts of purchases are where I find looking around is worthwhile.
@@michaelrobinson9643 I generally buy only models that are recent. And, yes, you have to be patient. I've bought a couple of dogs; it's a part of the deal.
In this price range you could buy the Jessem dowel jig and use a hand drill. I picked one up off Craigslist for $100 from a guy who preferred the Dowellmax, but that’s a different price point. The Jessem appears accurate and well made.
I find that the problem with dowels is that you get no room for error in any direction. Being a handheld tool where you are lining up a pencil line, there will occasionally be some side to side misalignment. Height wise, this isn't as much of an issue as the hole is determined by a fence but with side to side it isn't. The next misalignment issue can come if you don't glue up your work pieces fast enough after making the dowel holes. Even when cutting dowel holes on a dowelling machine in a workshop (clamped down to the bed and side fence for accuracy), you then are affected by expansion and contraction in the wood, causing your 2 workpieces to occasionally misalign. Biscuits and dominoes have some side to side play and overcome this. I think for the DIYer or someone who doesn't want to spend 100s or 1000s, a router with a slot cutting bit or a cheap biscuit jointer is the best option. Another great video btw!
Biscuits aren’t dowels/tenons. They only assist with alignment and add nothing to joint strength. Dowels and dominos/loose tenons add joint strength as well as assisting alignment
nice, honest, straight forward review without being TOO critical------just what we have come to expect from you thanx peter rick
Thanks Rick! Trying hard not to be overcritical, but it wasn't easy! 😂 👍
Peter I wanted you to know that I picked up the DDF40. And I can definitely say it has been a game changer for my shop. The DDF40 has greatly increased my throughput. I do appreciate the time you take to review different machines. Hope you’re having a great day.
Thanks! 👍
Interesting review. I sent mine back a few years ago and saved, and saved, and got the DF500 in the end. I tend to find when I need dowels, that a simple jig does the job well and simply. Even the worst jigs I've used produce an acceptable result - and overall accept the time needed to make the joints. What trend has not nailed for me is the time-saving as some of those niggles you hightlighed would slow you down if you want to avoid mistakes. The domino is fast and accurate (and a precision tool) and justifiable in those terms if time is money.
Thanks Karl! Yes, it's a shame as I was hoping they'd sorted all this out by now. 🤷♂️ 👍
Millard. The gentleman chippytuber.
Always the best tool reviews. Always spot on and genuine
Thanks! Always honest - otherwise, what’s the point? 👍👍
Thank you for doing this review!
I was thinking back and forth about buying this duo dowler, after I've seen and heard good things about several of their other tools.
You saved me a lot disappointment and frustration.
Hi, too be honest, after watching most of the videos about this tool, including the 5+ years old ones, to me it seems they have addressed some of the flaws.
I see not such a big problem having to fix the glass with markings.
People saying they will save for a Mafell/Festool don't have the arithmetic in place, you cannot "save up" for something 5 times more costly.
I will take the risk with this one, I have some non standard angles to drill for a lounge chair.
Have a good day!
These are important videos for so many woodworkers. Thank you.
Seems like the worst of both worlds. Not cheap but cheaply and somewhat thoughtlessly made.
Exactly that! And thanks! 👍
Hi Peter, great video as always 👍 for some reason I was hoping this tool would do well. But there you go, you have saved me some money👍 all the best mate.
Hi Tomasz! Yeah, I was rooting for it too, but hey ho - not to be! 🤷♂️ 👍
Just picked up two of these machines and both are spot on. I set one up for the face of cabinet part and one up for the end of a cabinet part. They work very nicely. Don’t see any of the issues you’re referring to. I think it’s a great cost effective way of building cabinets. Have a great day 😊
That’s great to hear, but unless they’ve resolved the principal design issues since I made this video over a year ago, then there’s still no way to precisely align the tool (eg referencing against an end of a workpiece) without visually lining it up against a pencil mark, and no way to calibrate or adjust the marking in the fence. 🤷♂️👍
Absolutely the way a tool review should be done. Real world use over time with helpful advice on the details. Thank you.
Can't tell you how tired and frustrated I am with typical unboxing videos with "some guy" whose opinion is based on whatever the manufacturer tells him it is. At least use the tool and give an informed opinion.
Thanks again. Your competent views and experience keep me watching.
Thanks! I think the difference is that I - mostly - buy the tools I review, and need to spend time with them before making a video about them. 👍
Great video on the tool Peter. As you know I fell for the charms of this tool years ago but soon discovered it made life harder not better.....and bought a Domino. It really makes you wonder what conversations took place at the Triton design offices.
Thanks Chris! Honestly, it makes me wonder if *any* conversations took place at the Triton design offices... 🤷♂️ 👍
A few years ago I bought a Freud doweller for $100 Cnd. They were selling off old stock to bring in a newer model. I have not regretted the purchase. I have the 3 standard sized bit sets, 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" and I have used them all to great effect.
Fantastic and honest review, Peter! Thanks! 😃
You know, I've made a bunch of tools for myself, even a dremel tool that still works great... And tools like this makes me think that it's the best way to do things, really...
All you would need is a good dc motor, a power supply, 2 drill chucks and a few other things that you can get pretty cheap from China...
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Sounds great! Thanks, and you too! 👍
Hi Peter, I have this doweller and made 2 gallows brackets with it a few days ago for a door canopy but it is a laborious thing to use and line up but it did serve its purpose and the job turned out well. A few tweaks and it could be great as you say.
Coming from another trade(automatic technician). I can see your points but I can also see that if you as a user can find a good & reliable machine shop the faults can be solved.
4:36 That can be machined down so that it's in alignment with the angled part.
4:54 The see through part could that be changed to 6 half-moon shaped dots in aluminium that would give a better precision.
7:01 It would be easy for the machinist to add 2 marks on each side of the tool.
If the tool can be changed would it then be a more useful tool ? And what would the price for doing the milling be ??
Thank you for the video. I purchased it in the past when it came out and returned it for the same reasons. Thank you for the update, still junk.
I can't help but think if you had Aldi or Lidl come up with even a £100 duo dowler the quality would be infinitely better!
Yes! At least you’d know it was a supermarket special… 👍
You could forgive a £80 Parkside version needing a little tweaking to get working. I like using dowels in my projects but can't really justify investing in a Festool/Mafell at this point in my hobby. Such a shame this Triton is so wonky as I'd definately get one at that price point without these easily fixable flaws.
Screwfix have one on clearance sale for £168 but if it's going to give inconsistent results I think I'll stick with basic jigs for a few years until someone comes up with a decent alternative. Seems like there's a real gap in the market for those who like the idea of a Domino but don't have the money to burn on it.
I've had my share of falling supermarket tools and am much more considerate about buying them. A few turned out to be quite OK, but some didn't even survive one project or build from start to end without partial if full failure. Without brutal misuse, I might add.
Great video. Thanks, Peter. As a keen amateur woodworker, each time I look at a new power tool, like most recently a biscuit jointer, it’s a choice between the very cheap end of the market, that experiences a la Black & Decker drill and Tacklife circular saw have taught me to avoid, and the higher end that would be very nice, but can’t justify the cost. I did recently look at buying 2nd hand higher quality tools, but don’t want to end up with alignment issues or other regrets around the kit potentially having been dropped or damaged by some other means.
I usually end up going with Erbauer corded, that does the job, albeit ‘clunkily’. Or stretching a little further with Bosch blue for cordless which does OK for me, but I was disappointed that they don’t seem do a biscuit jointer.
And I have often thought, as you said, there’s a gap in the market for a mid-range given the huge delta in cost and quality between the cheap and professional ends of the spectrum. Maybe one of the brands will latch on to it sooner or later.
Thanks! I do find it is bizarre that a self-professed 'mid-range' manufacturer only wants to compete at the entry-level, or slightly above. No ambition! 😂 👍
I have a dowelling jig made by Wolfcraft. It is usable for dowels and to make 32 mm shelf support holes. Made several cabinets with this tool and it works great. For the DIY market this is a nice solution. It is of coarse quite manual and not as fast as a machine solution is but it does the job just fine.
I'm so glad you published this video when you did. I was about to buy one of these as I have a large desk project coming up. I couldn't find a decent universal cam lock jig anywhere, and I've always preferred dowels to biscuits, so I was about to buy one of these as I've always found Triton tools excellent for the money. Safe to say I won't bother buying one now.
It's a real shame, but the wise thing to do. 👍
Thanks for revisiting the Duo-Doweller topic, granted with all things said, I still think it's a pretty awesome machine. A mini version would great.
I was given one and when I tried it out, I found that the drills were out of alignment with the top folding fence. This results in the holes being drilled on different centre lines relative to the edge of the board. Like you did with the plastic window Peter, I dismantled the fence system and elongated holes in an effort to align things a little better. I certainly would not part with hard earned dollars for one of these.
The fence was out if alignment on mine too. I fixed that by removing the front housing and two internal locating pins before reassembling it to be parallel, then tightening up the four bolts. The absence of the pins offers just enough room for adjustment. Even then I ended up with the Mafell DDF40 due to the other limitations Peter mentions in his excellent video.
Coming from another trade(automatic technician). I can see your points but I can also see that if you as a user can find a good & reliable machine shop the faults can be solved.
4:36 That can be machined down so that it's in alignment with the angled part.
4:54 The see through part could that be changed to 6 half-moon shaped dots in aluminium that would give a better precision.
7:01 It would be easy for the machinist to add 2 marks on each side of the tool.
If the tool can be changed would it then be a more useful tool ? And what would the price for doing the milling be ??
But at £175 / $200 why should the user have to do that? On a $50 supermarket special, sure, but at this price it should be better than this, don’t you think? 🤷♂️👍
Wow thanks Peter, I was actually seriously thinking of getting one of these as I was really impressed by the TRA01 router. Your review of the doweller has now confirmed to me spend a little more and go quality so its going to be the FESTOOL DOMINO without a shadow of doubt. Once again thanks for an in depth and proper review.
Thanks Tony! Was a big fan of the TRA001 myself, but this is such a disappointment when the faults are so easy to fix. 👍 🤷♂️
Hi Peter, just purchased one of these tools, will let you know hiw I get on
Thanks for taking the time and spending the money to do this useful review Peter ! I guess I'll stick with my 30 y/o wolf dowelling jig and my similarly ancient Bosch GFF22A biscuit jointer for now then !
Hey Peter. Hope all well.
I sold mine a while ago. I basically found the same issues you explained. I changed the alignment plate thingy, put the side lines in with my dremel and added a handle to the front. The one niggle I couldn't sort was the bits weren't 100% square. It was only a small amount. I thought it was doing OK... then I purchased a domino. Day and night...😂😂.
Totally agree there is a gap in the market... introducing the TMW lightning dowller?? 😂😂😂
Cheers Barry, all good here thanks! Not having those issue with the bits - they were on my original dowellers that were returned years ago. 👍
I’ve got the first generation mafell doweller too. I paid £300,second hand about 4 years back,fantastic machine,no regrets. Not all triton tools are rubbish,I have their thickness planer and their very,very powerful 1/2” router mounted under my router table,great tools and relatively cheap. Maybe triton should either develop this machine to a decent standard or disassociate themselves from such appalling crap. Great vid,Pete.
Thanks John. Big fan of the TRA001 router myself, had one slung under the bench for a decade or more. Solid workhorse, makes it all the more puzzling why they think this is adequate. 🤷♂️👍
Very enlightening review. Thank you Peter.
This video is simple great 💯👍 I really would like to see what you can do to fix that problems! Window... And more 🤷🏽♂️
Thanks Peter. I placed an order for one of these this morning, having watched this video I’ve cancelled it!
I'd be okay with having a hack at this given that some of the issues are fairly easy fixes (the window and side marking). Even creating a metal shim to bring the fence in line would be worth it given, as you point out, that getting something better suddenly goes into insane price territory. However, the most important question is is the machine accurate? Is it jiggly? Is the fence actually square?
Interested to see your views. I've had the duo doweller for a couple of years and found it OK with no real complaints but wouldn't rave about it either. I've not had any experience of a Domino, Lamello or Maffell version to compare with.
Poor timing on my part Peter as I actually bought one of these about 2 weeks ago. I have noticed all of the same issues that you mentioned with the addition of 1 other serious issue: the 2 drill bits are at very slightly different distances from the fence. Whether this is an issue with the fence or the placement of the bits I'm not sure. When joining 2 pieces it results in really poor alignment. For example when edge joining 2 boards, board 1 will be higher than board 2 at one end and lower at the other. I can no doubt fix this but it takes time and effort and I shouldn't have to do it for a tool of this price!
Sorry to hear that Nathan. I had an extreme version of your issue on the first doweller I bought, and combined issues on the next two. Honestly, I'd return it and try to get another - though there's no guarantee the replacement would be any better, sadly!
Excellent. Useful video as usual. I really appreciate the high production values. Great in 4k, brilliant sharp ultra close ups.
Thank you! 👍
Nice review. I've had my eyes on this as a stronger joining alternative to my trusty Dewalt biscuit jointer I use for alignment purposes only (edge bands, face frames, etc.). I agree with your findings and appreciate the video.
I've got the Triton mini spindle sander that I'm actually quite happy with for the job it does.... seems well made. I'm still debating a purchase of this tool, as it seems to be built okay, meeting my needs. Fixing the shortcomings appears to be relatively easy to do. I'd love to see you do a video on that.
Thanks! The fix-up is coming! 👍
Thanks for this review- was considering buying one but not now!!
Great assessment Peter. I've given up on Triton stuff after trying their TPL180 planer which was similarly poorly designed and badly made. The principles used for fundamental processes such as retaining the blades were laughably poor and even when it did work, it was impossible to get a consistent cut. In the end, what was left of it went back to Amazon along with an engineering report on its deficiencies. Subsequently, orange and silver has become one colour scheme I will never consider for power tools, a policy which your video reinforces. Once again, thanks for spending, nay wasting your money so we don't have to. It's really appreciated.
Thank you! 🙌
Thanks for yet another brilliant and informative video Peter. You've highlighted some very fundamental flaws in this tool that as you say wouldn't have been very difficult for the manufacturer to get right. I think this tool is off my list at least for the time being, oh well I'll just have to keep on using my jig.......
There I was hoping it would be worth getting one. Thanks again for give another great, honest review.
Great review! I would be interested in seeing you modify the Triton to improve the performance.
Thanks, it's coming... 👍
As a weekend warrior a Festool domino is beyond my budget. Last time you reviewed the triton it put me right off and so I chose a manual dowelmax jig which works well. However, it is always on my mind for something more automatic. Your review as reinforced my view that the triton is just not the answer and maybe one day I can warrant a domino. Appreciate your insight.
If you enjoy woodworking and have a halfway decent workshop with the ambition to enjoy work I'd recommend to buy tools min. 2 steps more expensive, than you think to need. The Mafell Duo doweler is such an example. Using it since 15 years I wished having bought it much earlier. This is a precision tool, which is a joy to use
You would think these tool company’s would give some of the R&D first run products to people who will be using there new tool and get all their feed back before final the production run . To give everybody a tool worth having and to keep their company name and reputation from being shouted down. Keep up the fantastic vlog Peter.
Thanks Peter! 🙌
So looks like we'll be sticking with the domino! Thanks for another great video Peter, have a good weekend
Thanks Paul, you too! 👍
Dowel Max, very accurate and flexible system. But not speedy and has been my go to joiner for years as I can’t justify a Domino (I’d like to). Great vid thanks Peter…
Thanks! Dowelmax isn't sold or supported in the UK, unfortunately. 🤷♂️ 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Hi Peter, the original I purchased from Canada from there on I’ve added to the original via the U.K. Thanks again.
Hello, I bought the Dowelmax a couple of years ago from Canada. It’s very well made and a quality tool,BUT, I don’t find it intuitive to use and mistakes can be made if you don’t use it on a regular basis. Then there’s the problems with the dowels themselves, I found it difficult to dry fit them despite the 10mm dowel holes are drilled with a 10.1mm drill. I ordered the 8mm kit, (8.1mm drill) but the tightness of the dowels was the same. I found that if I put 10-20 dowels on a piece of kitchen towel, put them in the microwave for 20secs, it drew out some moisture and it shrinks them slightly making it easier to fit. I now keep them in an airtight container. But after all this I wouldn’t use them on a large project as there’s absolutely no wiggle room. I’d love a Domino, but at my age and now only doing DIY work, I can’t really justify one. 😢
@@maxbee4460 I had the same issue and like you I dry the dowels out before use and store them similar to yourself. I did at first struggle with its use but I found a lot of RUclips vids which helped me gain confidence in the tool. It is very accurate but dowels don’t have the wiggle room the Dominos have. I have the confidence to use it for many different scenarios, dry fitting remains tough and I’ve built furniture, internal doors and repaired furniture with it over many years. Great to hear how you are solving some of the issues and thanks for the reply. Like most tools and especially Peter with many years of experience makes things look too easy. Kindest regards Mike
Hi Peter, I have one of those dowellers and mine is also inaccurate. It would be good to see you do another video with more upgrades to this tool. Cheer. 👍🏻
It’s coming! 👍
Thanks Peter, I’m looking forward to seeing it. 👍🏻👍🏻
Good video as usual. I dont mind playing around with some of the cheaper tools to get better use from them as it can be quite an interesting challenge. But you are 100% right in saying you should not have to do anything to a tool that costs £175. I have never owned a Triton branded product although recently I did consider a couple. Definately glad I hesitated now!
Some of their tools are pretty good, I have the scheppach oscillating sander that seems identical to the Triton and I love it. A friend has their thicknesser and for the price it's a great deal IMO. But like many other decent brands they also seem to make some questionable products.
I had the Triton version of that oscillating sander and it was awful!
@@10MinuteWorkshop Really ? What did you dislike about it ? For my use the belt sander works great, it's one of my favorite tools. I rarely use it in spindle mode though, mostly because I find the spindles don't last at all and remove almost nothing.
Great selection of all your Videos from 5 years ago to the present day. I myself spent 24 years in the Army 15 years as a pro photographer 10 as a British Army SURVEILLANCE /COMBAT CAMERA team and then as a freelance in Civie street. I spend a great deal of my current time dismantling wooden furniture that I have brought at auction as it's cheaper than buying wood it from a local yard especially hardwood, my tools, and power tools are Dewalt table saw drills and mostly....... Erbauer I find them robust and to the point no frills I have seen some of your comparisons, how would you rate them as general tools power tools the Erbauer Chop saw, bit of a nightmare getting a 90degree cut , thanks for your time
Thanks! I have a couple of Erbauer tools, they seem pretty good - the bigger plunge saw is a dead ringer for the Triton version, but lack of spares is a concern if you want a longer-term investment. Then again I've used some Triton spares on the Erbauer without any issues! 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thanks. I have just Snagged a bargain Erbauer plunge saw Brand New £100, we will see when it arrives just halfway through your Track saw series fantastic info....Thanks again
CANCEL that in my haste to grab a bargain i did not read the small print image was a catalogue item the acatual item is second hand with no spares ......lesson learnt
I had a similar issue a ywar ago with the Triton track saw, 3 saws from 3 vendors, first had a manufacturing defect, the second and third both had both clearly been returned previously and sold as new with various issues. My guess would be the UK is just a throw away market for them.
The design weirdness looks like they had the Mafell doweller to design from so copied the crenelation and didn't see that the end of the fence is the center mark on the Mafell, like you said no idea on the use of the original tool.
Excellent review, thank you Peter. Your comment about Triton's manufacturer being told to produce a tool that they didn't understand was probably closer to the truth than you realised. I was given a pencil with an eraser at one end at a hotel in Kazahkstan. Clearly the chinese company that made them had been shown a photograph of the pencil and proceeded to make them based on this. The 'eraser' was pink plastic!
😂👍
Excellent review! Anyone thinking of buying it would now know exactly what to expect.
I'm with Peter in being baffled at engineering design choices. Often I see in a product two choices that would cost the same to design and build, yet the company chooses the far-less functional option.
Thanks! Yep, leaves me utterly puzzled. 🤷♂️
Excellent expose Peter well structured and excellent observations.😀👍
Thanks Norman! 👍
A friend of mine kindly leant me his triton doweller. After struggling with it for an hour I just went back to settin out with a square and pencil and drilling the holes myself. If it had some basic, accurate settings on the machine it would have been spot on and I would have bought one myself. Quite frustrating to have a machine that's meant to make a precision task quicker and more simple , only to not have the basics to do so.
Yep, exactly that. 🤷♂️👍
Hooked on wood has a good video on a doweling jig (think by WNEW) that does a great job and almost as fast as this machine. Seems to me the best affordable option on the market.
I bought this WNEW jig based on the review, and the quality is superb.
It's a great jig. I think it only works with 8mm dowels though, which is a shame.
Interesting review Peter. It is only once you get to use the premium tool brands do you realise how much the little things make the difference, such as the marks on body to line things up.
Triton as a brand I find baffling. Their router and work holding devices as great. Tim from ‘The Restoration Couple’ has the massive plane he likes and was good value. I have the jointer which is very noisy and I would have liked a little wider cut capacity but it was not like I did not know that when I bought it. It just means it is not a brand I would to as a first choice because they have a few really good tools in a range which has flawed examples throughout
Thanks Doug. Yep, I had a big old Triton TRA001 router under my bench for years, never missed a beat, the plunge saws are OK, basically a slightly fancier version of the old Titan, and that planer looks like a beast! I had the oscillating sander and wasn't overly impressed... 🤷♂️
I have several dowel jigs and the concept of this tool would be great if they would at the very least listen to your evaluation of it. As you say there is a market for a good tweener tool. I have several Triton hand tools and fit and finish does not seem to be their goals.
Fair play mate that was a very good run through review, agree its baffling why the makes sense , common sense design requirements are just not taken into account. But, unfortunately as is with many different areas , this seems to be the way things are these days. Anyway nice video Pete
Thanks Dan! 👍
For years I resisted buying a dowelling jig because of the same issues. Recently on the strength of a RUclips video I bought a jig system which is accurate (you use the included drill bits and locating pins). It wasn't cheap and works well for someone prepared to take a bit of time.
Too slow however for profession level output.
So whether it is a jig or a power tool, jointing systems are mostly rubbish and to get past the rubbish zone takes cubic dollars.
Triton make decent routers, pity this is so un-engineered. Different contract manufacturers maybe?
Believe it or not but those Tritons are hard to get here in Canada! Recent video by Bourbon moth used the doweller so not sure if that boosted sales. Rockler in USA sells them and a recent notification indicated stock but they sold out quite quickly. They also don’t ship to Canada.
As an alternative to the domino this seems reasonable and hey if it works for ikea then how bad can it be
Dowels are great, but unfortunately this Triton isn’t. 🤷♂️👍
Glad you did this review Peter but, your 4th Triton doweller? My first experience was enough to convince me to never purchase another Triton power tool - ever. Poorly designed with even poorer manufacturing quality - what a combination. I looked at the new model at last years IWF and it seems they made some improvements but still has a long way to go. In the US, Grizzly markets a dual dowel machine but with a side switch at under $100. Looks similar enough to be made by Triton though. Either way, both are a no-go for me as experience has taught me which brands to stay away from as it is usually a waste of money. Steve
Thanks Steve. First 3 were returned pretty fast, and I moved on to something else. This one just popped up on my radar not so long back and thought it might be worth a look, as I'd just picked up the old Mafell. Triton's a real mixed bag; the big old routers were bulletproof, had one under my bench for a decade or more and never missed a beat. 💪 👍
You're right, I would be in the market for one of those in yellow or a turquoisey livery. I don't mind the odd adaptation, but that fellow looks unfellelable. I might have bit the Mafell bullet, were I not able to "get by" with other means.
Have to say, having used the latest Mafell for a while, and now owning one of the originals, I'd look elsewhere - unless it had to be dowels vs eg Dominos. 🤷♂️ 👍
@Peter Millard I tend to use biscuits myself.
Considering the price gap I think a few odd adjustments might be the way to go, money is getting hard these days.
A very fair review. Nice work, Peter. You did everything you could to give this tool the benefit of the doubt but it still has some critical shortcomings. Not a tool worthy of the price.
well explained, Peter!
I own a festool domino (yes, it costs a lot, but I still have one kidney left) and I was wondering if there are things that you can do with a doweller and/or biscuit joiner that a domino can't do?
Thanks! And no, on the contrary, the Domino is still the most flexible jointing system you can get; a precision tool that lets you work loosely. 👍
Hi Peter, the video I’d like to see in future is one where this tool is thrown in the bin!
Youre absoloutly right with the gap in the market, around 3-£400. Theres literally no competition on mafells £800 ddf40, which i find crazy
Triton was originally invented and made in Australia. They were great tools. After the original Triton brand sold out, there has been a continual downhill slide. I still have two of their original routers. Excellent tools. I won't be parting with those.
Yep, I had one of the old TRA001 routers under my bench for a decade or more, absolutely bomb proof. 💪👍
Good argument for buying your loose tenon jig! That + a decent router comes in less than this Triton thing.
Yep; even a cheap router plus the jig will do more than this will. 👍
A great review.
I am just in the market for a joining tool like this but having seen your review now I will wait and save up some money to get me the Domino.
Thanks a lot!
That's the smart thing to do, and it's such a shame that this isn't better than it is. 🤷♂️ 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop You summed it up perfectly - there really is a need for a mid range option. I dont know why they botched it up so badly
Just out of curiosity, does it say anywhere on it (or in the instructions) where it's made?
I'd have to check to be sure, but I'd say it's pretty much 100% to be Chinese. Like the computer I'm writing this on, the cameras and lenses I shot the video on, the microphones that recorded the sound etc.. etc.. So not the country of manufacture to blame really, more the standards that were set by the brand. 👍
Great video/review. Thanks for sharing. Did you contact Triton about all these drawbacks/missing/non-complete features/functjions?
They should pay you your weight in gold.
Thanks Hans. No, if Triton want to engage with me on a professional basis, they know where to find me. 👍
Still can't beat the Record 148 dowlling jig for versatility, accuracy, and dependability. If you must use dowels. I'm old enough to remember when dowel rod came in various lengths. You cut it by hand to length and finished the ends with a "cone cutting" tool in a hand brace. Then cut a slot along the dowel length with a tenon saw. To make the most of the Record jig you needed at least 4 bush carriers and the drill bushes in both metric and imperial. With extra rods of course. Cost a pretty penny in the end. Though Record did provide the metric bushes free when I asked to buy some from them. Those were the days when customer service actually meant something!
Thanks was going to buy one I’ll save my money and a bit more for something better 👍👍
I don't understand the Mafell dowler. It's more expensive than the Festool Domino 500, but doesn't seem quite as good? I must be missing something.
I have had the Mafell double dowler for about 2-3 years now, still my favourite tool, absolute pleasure using it, especially considering its accuracy. The main reason I went for it is the standard size dowels and how easy it is to find them in various different shops.
@@custempo3040 ah, ok. I've got the Domino, and I've not yet used up the box of a loose tenons I bought with it. I'd not considered that you can buy dowels in B&Q. Cheers for the insight!
Thanks for this video. Saved a lot of cash. Cheers.
Great video Pete, it would be interesting to see if they pay attention and listen to your views. Hope you get some feedback from this and they improve the performance of this tool. Cheers,all the best.
Thanks Steve. I suspect it’ll fall in deaf ears- or the marketing department will get a another ‘brand ambassador’ involved… 🤷♂️👍
Don't know who owns triton but when they brought out the work centre out c 1984 there was a 3 hour video came with it with the inventor demoing it there was nothing like it at the time seem to have sold out for the money...
Being unable to reference position against the edge is a deal-breaker for me.
Hi Peter, I have emailed Triton tools Australia and encouraged them to view your excellent review of the doweling tool. Hoping for but not expecting a reply on this request, only time will tell.
Thanks David. I suspect it’ll fall on deaf ears! 👍🤷♂️
I came to similar conclusions about the quality of Triton tools with the TRA001 Router which I bought after watching you tear down your old router table. It literally shook itself to bits and blew up after a couple of jobs making shaker doors with mdf. I received a full refund from Triton UK without even sending the tool back which demonstrates the level of confidence they have in their products. They won’t publish my review, but I’ve seen similar complaints elsewhere, and the new TRA002 router seems to be plagued with similar quality issues from what I’ve seen on RUclips.
Such a shame as the old TRA001 was bulletproof. 💪👍
Triton, Evolution, Erbauer, and, recently, Trend, plus probably other 'prosumer' tools - I've had to return them for instant replacement or taken the money and gone elsewhere. Some people get lucky with the quality control bell curve and have a good enough tool for life. I did keep an Erbauer jig saw - bought at the same time as a seriously dangerous 12" double bevel sliding mitre saw that they told me to return instantly - the jig saw is working fine with dust extraction remarkably good. The replacement Trend T4, original bought to work with Peter's Domino jig, is OK and much better finished than the first one and it came with 2-year warranty and with safe cut out when unplugged - quite a change in the product and quality compared with less than a year before. At least customer services with each of those products has been no quibble so they must live with their QC but, I gather it can be more difficult in USA to get an immediate replacement
@@cuebj Agreed, I haven’t been overly impressed with Trend either. I replaced my router with a similarly priced Makita which is my go to brand for quality at good value. Customer service at Triton was also dire. I initially complained when I nearly lost my fingers due to it turning on by itself. It took them 6 weeks to respond by which time it had blown itself up (not a bad thing in the interest of my own safety), and it took them another month or so to get the refund sorted. Terrible brand I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone.
That's a shame. My TRA001 has been stellar. Very powerful and easy to fit into a table when required without a lift. Mine's only about 2 years old but has been used a lot.
When flaws like these are present, then they're most likely by design. Only a few companies own the production lines, and the majority are only rebrands. As a shareholder to save the name of a quality brand, you don't want a rebrand to compete with it. So products of rebrands need to have flaws by design.
I have both Triton and df500. I bought them experiment.
Great video Peter and thanks for your honest opinion. Interested to see if you sent that video to triton and what they said. Also what is your doweling jig?
Thanks! It’s just a basic one off Amazon - it’s listed in the Dowel Jig Basics video - ruclips.net/video/zTj_hiEVfvw/видео.html
Love your work 👍
Thank You for another very interesting review!
I appreciate your trails and tests. Seeing this one somehow triggered me to write this comment. My question is, have you, before you sending this vid out, contact the manufacturer to provide your suggestions (which all valid btw) to them and took in consideration what they will do with it? Burning a tool is so easy done when it’s not convenient for your purpose , unless you take the effort to contact the manufacturer and listen what they have to say. If they do neglect your advice than it’s ok.
Hi Robert. Firstly, nobody's 'burning' a tool here - though as I say in the video there are plenty of other vids here on RUclips where the tone is a lot less favourable than mine. I'm a customer, I bought three of these about five years ago, and I wanted to see if Triton had actually paid any attention to the many videos that have gone before, and improved this at all. This one is better, but not good enough, I feel, to justify the asking price; it's not a matter of being 'inconvenient' for my purpose, but a fundamental lack of attention to the basics of how a tool like this is used, and what it's used for.
As I say, I think it's a missed opportunity not to make the simple improvements that could make this tool not only workable, but genuinely good value and at a much higher asking price. But I'm under no compulsion to do Triton's work for them - wether that's the work of the designers, manufacturers, or social media managers; they can get in touch with me if they choose to. Cheers, Peter
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thank you for the explanation. I understand what you say and if a tool is not meet certain standards you would expect them to have, well nobody likes that. And I agree with what you pointed out in the vid. At the same time, I am not in favour of unilateral criticism without having heard the other side first.
There is a company called Virtutex seem to have made a better one...can't seem to find it for sale in the UK though. They call it the TWOO
Assuming it's better engineered than the Triton (a low bar) it's still only a couple of hundred quid less than the Mafell tbh, so given their indifference to sales - there's only one formal distributor in the UK (Ney.co.uk) and like Virutex they just don't seem to be interested in individual sales the UK market - then I think anyone interested should vote with their feet any buy the Mafell new if they have the means, or used if not. 👍
Good review Peter
Great , honest review
Hopefully when the domino parents expire we'll have some new offerings in this space!
How does it compare to the Silverline dowel jig Peter? 😅
😂 It does 2 holes at a time, but that’s about it! 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop 🤣
Good review!
I’ve been saying for years that the people who design tools most likely never use tools. If I was a tool manufacturer I’d go to the users and ask what they’d like to see.
This certainly wasn't designed by the same design team that designed their plunge routers. The routers have a whole plethora of great features, like automatic spindle lock, safety latch on the power switch, twist grip plunge, and so much more, even on the small model.
Had the big router under my bench for over a decade. Solid piece of kit, but designed (and made) long before the company changed hands. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop I have the small one (MOF 001) in the extension I built for my Dewalt DW745, and the spindle lock makes it a breeze to change bits while mounted in the table. That, and the ability to adjust the height from above the table was the 2 main reasons why I bought it. I also bought 12mm and 1/2" collets for it. It is mounted in an adapter plate from Rockler, specifically designed for the Triton.
My Makita palm router was too weak, and my Bosch POF 1200 AE lacked pretty much all the required features for table mounting. So the Triton was a no-brainer for my small garage workshop.
I suppose the thing to do is, buy this tool, and find a friendly home machinist who can mill the sides of the fence to align with the body etc, and do the few other mods to make this into a £500 doweller without actually spending that much. Job done.
Except it’s already £175, and if you can get a friendly home machinist to do all that for less than another £175 (£350 being what I paid for my Mafell doweller) then let me know because I can keep them very busy! 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop As a retired engineer, with a fully equipped workshop, I often do these kind of jobs for friends in exchange for a little work from them. I suppose it is because of this that I tend to think that a lot of people in the various trades will know someone who knows someone who can. Maybe I should buy a Triton doweller and do the mods you describe as desirable, and see how long it takes me.
Triton routers though.
My Triton router is superb. Especially the chuck which is genuine steel quality.
Yep, had a big old TRA001 under the bench for years, bulletproof. 💪👍