The Best Way to Get Wider Acoustic Guitars?
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
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A little ago, we tried out the Gullfoss plugin by Soundtheory. This plugin is an easy-to-use tool that contains a set of basic parameters that can be adjusted to improve the clarity, detail, spatiality, and balance of a mix or recording in a matter of seconds. We found this was a great tool for detecting issues in your mix, as it analyzes the signal and highlights the places that might need to have some changes made.
Today, we are going to try out something new with the Gullfoss plugin!
We also have 3 copies of Gullfoss by Soundtheory to give away! Enter below for your chance to win!
Soundtheory has recommended that we try something a little different from the first time we tried out this plugin. Soundtheory has suggested that we try using Gullfoss with multiple microphones. So, we are going to have a spaced pair of small diaphragm condenser microphones - Lewitt LCT 040's - and a large diaphragm condenser microphone - the Lewitt LCT 240 - on an acoustic guitar.
I think this is a very interesting suggestion. Setting up the mics like this made it feel as though I was sitting in the room with the acoustic guitar. It added a little something extra to the acoustic guitar and made it a lot more interesting.
Watch the video below to see exactly how this technique sounded and how we used the Gullfoss plugin!
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What are your favorite tricks for widening acoustic guitars?
Double / triple track and LCR panning
A car jack?
recording two samples and then hard panning them left and right and inverting the polarity of one of them.
I track stack. Two different recordings of the same performance panned away from each other. It’s sounds a lot wider than double mic’ing an acoustic
Panning and slight -/+ 12ms offset in timing.
Also StageOne!
Can we just appreciate how incredible of a guitarist Warren is!🔥
You're very kind Daniel!
@Josip Haha I love Elvis! However, definitely not trying to look like him! Haha
Fantastic guitarist.
@@MattRichardsEsq Aw shucks! Thanks ever so much Matt! That means a lot!
Yes, 😄 this why I don't remember the tricks. I'm just thinking, "Oh I really like that, now I wanna play too!" Next thing I know I'm playing till I get too sleepy to keep playing, just because it feels so good. 😊 I do remember learning some tricks about widening guitar recordings but that was a ways back...
I really am setting up my systems to record again. I just got the new machine back from having to have a component replaced. Just put Reaper into it, and JAWs, and realize I gotta put NVDA as well. I think it has the most scripts for Reaper access.
I like to record with a direct line and a condencer mic at the same time. Then I can add reverb or delay to either of the tracks, then blend the 2 tracks to my liking.
Why is this channel content so awesome!? Awesome, Warren! Thanks a lot!
Thanks ever so much Diego!!
Because, like everything, it's "what you know" - Not what you can buy, that makes all the difference...."think of the years of experience" behind it all.....
@@jockojohn3294 haha indeed! Thanks ever so much!
So many great ways to get down Acoustics now! Always happy to learn something new like this! Cheers!
Dropping wisdom left and right. Love you Warren!!
Thanks ever so much!
Nice video Warren, nice guitar playing too :-) - I strived for recording and mixing perfection since the late 80ies.... and for the last few years have become a fanatic for imperfection :-) the worse the better, within reason of course. To get wide accoustic guitars, well, imperfection has been my mantra. Treating L/R in different chains works well. Also I find Plugin-Alliance BX-consoles (where each track is different) has been one of the greatest advances, like the SSL4000 (E, G or the excellent J console !!). I note that I am 100% in the box. There are so many great ways to make accoustics huge, but the key is to treat L/R differently before bringing them back together in the main bus.
Just bought it a couple days ago perfect timing
Fantastic stuff Queen Purple!
I understand that we can "align" the tracks... but it seems to me that it's taking out part of the natural aspect of music, I mean to say that to me it sounds more musical when things are not "aligned" as Warren did it. Of course, if the phase shift is horrible then that's another thing, but moving 4 - 16 samples ? I mean, I deliberately will time shift 15ms or more to create more Left/Right separation.... I like to double track for wide accoustic guitars. When that's not possible, then I will copy the tracks and treat them with different Plugins, Channel Strips, EQ, etc. even send them down two different FX buses for stereo Chorus, Flange, Microshifter etc...
If you're moving entire takes in single digits of samples, you're basically just fine-tuning the distance of the mics from the instrument. I'm not sure that takes anything natural away from the recording, any more than spending time adjusting mic placement does.
You can drag the left and the right edge in order to limit the range in which the Gunfloss affects the sound.
Turning up the close mic at 10:45 really brought it to life. I hadn’t thought about creating a pyramid of sound with solo acoustic before, but it totally makes sense. I think that idea is going to change the way I mic and mix solo instruments. I wonder what it would sound like for vocals? I’ve enjoyed using Gullfoss in trial and I feel encouraged to take the plunge now, particularly with the 30% discount. Cheers to an Englishman living in California from a Scotsman living in Arkansas!
Haha I just had the same thought about vocals
Perfect video length for rendering tasks haha amazing review Warren ! Will check the plugin out
Another great Video Warren ,
Quick question in regards to the spaced pair,
How far back did you have them and what size spread from each other roughly?
well, I records always in M/S. Not work to align it. I get the environment dosing it how I do want, and I have always the instrument of focus. This returns the wideness I want with much less time employed
At first, I wasn't loving it, but when you brought up the close mic it really did come to life. Great trick.
Currently. my favorite trick for wide acoustics is...layers, lots of layers. haha. Got to be a pretty consistent player, and able to stay pretty still while playing, but I'll layer every acoustic part twice with my standard guitar, and twice with a Nashville tuned guitar. Have the Nashvilles out pretty wide Left and Right with some verb (maybe a "shimmer" verb depending on the tune) and the standard tuned guitars panned about 60% left and right. Track with a 57 and an AKG214 right next to each other, in phase, pointed at the bottom shoulder of the guitar into a stand alone mixer, using their volumes to blend to taste, then their summed signal goes into the DAW.
Wow, sounds killer! And man...besides being an excellent engineer, you are a great guitarist also! Wonderful blend of styles you showcase in your sample😁
Thanks ever so much!!
!! Great video, slays on guitar !!
Wow Warren! I have had this plugin for a while now and never thought to use it in this way. You pushed the settings waaaay farther than I would have. But I just tried it and it sounded great! This could be a savior for us who do not have great rooms to record in. Thanks for the great tip!
Some people saying it sounds better without the plugin. For experienced engineers, they hear instantly that it's going to sit better in a full mix with the plugin, and create less issues. Solo EQing is very different from fitting things in a dense mix.
Exactly! Agreed 100% my friend!
I've done two mics and single Mic setups for a 12 string acoustic.
The stereo Mic setup I liked using was to have one near the 12th fret while the other is near the 3rd fret. Be mindful of the 3:1 distance ratio but it creates a natural phasing effect with the movement of the guitar.
However, if the playing can be precise enough, I still like prefer the single Mic near the 12th fret. My reasoning is that miking sound hole has always been too boomy and it also used to drive me up the wall hearing the tapping noises the pick would make before it would pluck the strings!
To skip low end I tend to have 1 large diafram mic over my left shoulder. Facing down slightly, aiming the peg head and the neck, more or less. Stereo stock plugin as rev, a bit of ping-pong delay. Not so much sound treatment in the room🙄. Ozone 7 does the final job.
Thanks for all yoyr master's tips, Warren
You can set up only 2 mics, but position them in mid-side, and you duplicate the side mic track. Pan both side tracks wide, and flip the polarity on only one of them. You will get stereo width, but when collapsed to mono, only the center track will play. That way it guarantees a safe translation to other systems, even if they are mono bridged for whatever reason.
I so took this 30% offer! Thanx to both SoundTheory and you! I pulled the trigger yesterday evening. I did tried it when it came out. Amazing tool. But somehow never got to get it. Again, thanks!
Brilliant! Awesome playing Warren! Like the mixture of Blues, Beatles, Jazz, and Flamenco you threw in here.
The guitar intro made me (almost) sing "love of my life" by Queen. My neighbors thank you for not starting the song beyond the intro.
Good video, as always, but damn that was a lot of ads for this video length.
Wow, Warren! Great information here, and one hell of a player! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks ever so much
I didn't know this plugin existed but I may just give it a go now. Thanks for the great video.
I love the children's artwork in the background. I have a very similar collection right here. ;-)
My favourite technique to record a natural acoustic guitar or piano is a variation of M/S where the M is an omni instead of a cardioid. I like omnis because the low ends are extended without the emphasis of the proximity effect on a specific low-end area, plus it adds a bit more of a room sound. I prefer a ribbon as a Side mic because I don't need a lot of transients and a lot of lows and highs in my sides.
If I can, I add an AB couple for the room and I add reverb only on these mics. I don't like adding ambience on close mics on guitars, because all the small noises become very loud in the reverb and this it's something that does not happens in the real world. All the scratches and string noises are usually quieter compared to actual notes and they are partially absorbed by the air before hitting the walls of the room and becoming reflections.
For the reverb, I use plugins where you can control early and late reflection separately (like Valhalla or Exponential), because I simply want to enhance the already existing ambient. I often feel that adding too much early reflection to this set-up tends to mud the tone.
This technique works for recording where the guitar the main instrument and it's at the centre of the stereo field. For all other purposes is a bit too much, especially for fitting a guitar in a pop mix.
Very natural sounding recording... Great..
No doubt, sir Warren Huart is a genius! Everything that I learned from him works marvellously well for me. By the way, if someone wanna know what's wrong with that way of stereo recording by using two mics in "X" config - listen to the Shinedown - Simple Man. The guitar sounds a bit weird because of the bass' issue. Exactly like sir Warren explained!
Thanks ever so much! I really appreciate it
Gullfoss is always on my MB. I work quite in the studio but I cranked it up on this video it sounded wonderful. Nice vibe.
I love how you quote The Beatles - I Dig a Pony in the middle of the tracking. One of my all-time fav's from my childhood. It was my 1st ever around 7-yo (Xmas 1970), so every track is etched in my brain.
Hey! Could you show us how to use an eq instead of another mic to bring some stereo?
In teresting idea Gabriel!!
Great video Warren - I'll be checking out my gullfoss on my weird guitar tracks! - As a capturing trick I record guitar mic right and guitar DI left on a stereo track. The reason is to record as many takes as necessary and then comp as usual. The resultant guitar comp track (stereo) can then be split into 2 mono tracks - mic and DI. However, I discovered by accident that the stereo capture track has an intriguing wideness to it - so nowadays I mix a little of this back in...
I want to clear up a little confusion in the comments because this plugin has no "recovery time".
---------------
RECOVER tries to bring forward elements being masked.
TAME tries to attenuate elements that are covering other things up.
BIAS adjusts how much processing happens from RECOVER vs TAME. Positive supports RECOVER, negative supports TAME.
BRIGHTNESS tells RECOVER and TAME to prefer higher or lower frequencies.
BOOST doesn't actually affect volume, it is a fletcher munson style curve that can shape highs, mids, and lows based on the loudness playback will be at. Also can be used to add power or mid focus.
The light blue meter just under the EQ display shows how much brighter the signal is than the original which can be compensated using BRIGHTNESS if changes aren't wanted.
The light blue meters to the left show how much RECOVER is being used vs TAME. BIAS can be used to balance these out.
-----------------
I think they suggest using multiple sources for the acoustic so that the plugin has more content to pick and choose what would sound best to mask or unmask.
The plugin is automatically matched to maintain unity perceived loudness regardless of changes made, I would have loved to see you tweak that BOOST setting on that acoustic to hear how that affected it. Great video, great playing, and a very interesting mixing technique though. Gullfoss is an incredible tool and one of my favorites. Thanks for showing another way to use it!
Thank you. It may also help users to know they can crop the frequency range by using the red bars left and right. To me Gullfoss is too busy working the top end, and I trim it’s influence down under 14k.
Bruno Neureiter, I mix without a subwoofer, and the bottom end eludes my scrutiny so Gullfoss can correct that with Tame. What I enjoy most about Gullfoss is it’s ability to see that which I cannot. Mixes are always a bit more playback friendly. Using low values for Recover and Tame (about 50 or less) and cropping the frequency range down to 14/15k has been my workflow. I use it as a 2nd opinion from time to time, as you said, allowing it to focus on the mids. Great plugin, I paid full price for it! 😜
dual mic & DI ; having three sources to pan around ,
use snapshot automation in diff parts to get contrast.
try to avoid auto panning movement , phase issues aren't worth it
This setup of mics and the phase alignment + GulfossEQ (dynamic) is superb on acoustic guitars! With a touch of reverb!
The only thing that bothers me is that buzz sound on the acoustic strings/frets... needs a proper setup!
Like that warewolf facial and head hair style! Really suits you. Yes, it has a touch of Elvis, but it is not that important.
1:15 is the strawberry fields going into the chorus edit of RUclips videos
Really cool micing technique, I'll have to play around with it when I get some more channels and condensers. I love the width and really good sense of space this gives from a single performance. A good reminder that the best stereo de-correlation is actually different sources.
I've tried stereo pairs (XY, AB) with dual 57s, and never really liked the sound that much. (I prefer one up the neck, and one around the 12th fret as mono, and then double tracking that)
Amazed at the sound of Gulfoss every time I hear it on acoustics. Seems like a really amazing plugin for not only correction but also sculpting final tone.
Great video! What preamp are you using?
Great video Warren!
Beautiful sounding from the very first seconds of bringing that plugin in
I love this episode! More content regarding acoustic guitar recording. Much gratitude!
You rock Warren.
Thanks ever so much Hugo!
I like using the mid/side technique, especially for more sparse arrangements. I use AKG C414 set to figure 8 and a Rode NT5
I usually just record acoustics in mono and for width double track them and maybe a Nashville tuning on a 3rd track. But this method with 3 mics has peaked my interest. I have the mics to try it. With the Gullfoss "black magic" it just makes it really fast to get a nice sounding result. I love the widdelly-widdelly nice and widey-wide. =)).
3:17 The Captain's lick!
I'm monogamous when it comes to mics, I'm a one mic man. Not like you, ya ol' Casanova having three mics on the go at the same time. That being said, I tend to use a mix of Cubase's stock StereoEnhancer and strangely, Waves' Abbey Road Studio 3 plugin on the bus, those and my Se X-1 condenser do me proud in my little home studio. It's nothing as fancy as your studio Sir, but it serves me well :)
As a acoustic player most of the time I really enjoyed this video. Thanks Warren 😊
That Yamaha dreadnaught sounds great!
Damn, I missed this. To be fair, it was because I was busy in Reaper, but still. I did mean to watch this at broadcast. Oh well, now will do.
On a recent song I used your trick for electric guitars on the acoustics: panning and panning their reverbs opposite. The acoustic wasn't the main guitar on that one, but it did make it wide.
Mostly I record acoustic on my Rode NT. It does a good job of picking up the character of the guitar- great for harmonics. The little XYs on the DR40 also do a good job, but they do also pick up everything else in the room, good or bad.
Love it! I agree that a pair of mics capturing lows and highs just doesn’t cut it, but this sounds exciting! Nice chops too!
I had been holding out but because of this video I took advantage of the discount and bought it today.
That's great to hear Greg! Thanks ever so much! Glad you enjoyed the video!
Might be a strange thing to do but… imagine using this same micing technique for vocals🤔 and then use the acoustic guitar set up the same in the same room… would that sound good and natural?
Try it and let us know!
thank you for doing this warren
Wow... what strikes me the most here... is how good you are on this guitar!! :)
My favourite tip for tracks that need improving is the mute button. It's proper useful on cymbals. 😀
I liked it better at 2:28, the moment you put the pluggin it started to sound too transienty, yes the low end got better but the hi end got too clicky. Perhaps when they release v2.0 they´ll make it multiband, that would be great. Anyway great performance and super usefull micing technique, thanks.
Can you please teach us mixing a song where acoustic guitar is the only instrument with voice? Asking a lot but still...thank you so much for all you teach! 😅
Hey Warren,
I spotted the ADA MP1 in a rack behind you in this video. How often is that still used just out of curiosity?
I still remember in the late 80's and early 90's when every guitarist either had or wanted one of those!
I worked with White Lion a bit and Vito had one and in fact was one of the guys who many were trying to chase tone-wise back then!
I 2nd that inquiry, to my knowledge it’s new to the studio, haven’t seen it before.
Do you prefer widdley widdley or meanly meanly? I like diddly doos most but we have our own tastes 🤘🏽
Beatley beatley doos for me.
Ernie and Natalie, too.
Of course there's the 'Look at me, Look at me'!
Thank you for the Gullfoss discount!
For a stereo guitar I usually track with two different mics: one large condensor on the 12th fret and a small one just behind the soundhole. I get what you say about the one mic being more bass heavy than the other. But nothing an eq can't fix. And to me it's ok if the frequencies are not perfectly symetrical left and right. But I'm working on a song now where this trick might be just what I need! I'll have tro try it (finally a good excuse to buy a stereo pair. I was thinking about the Lewitts). How far away are your room mics here. It seems in the video about 1.5 meters (5 feet) from the guitar. Is that about right?
Can you do a vid on using automation for a better mix ?
Very very nice video - defnitely want to try this on my vocal / dub bus as well !! Question: I can only get 16/25 entries since i dont have twitter and instagram - am i still competing for the giveaway or is it only amongst 25/25 participants?
Hello! When will the result of the giveaway be announced?
Nice playing!
Where do the left and right mics go? I might've missed the placement. Obviously left and right but how far back would you put them? I'd like to give this a whirl but I only have 2 inputs *cries* Well I could put the close mic in my Tascam and the left and rights in my computer interface I just need to figure out where to put the other 2 stands with space being at a premium in my living room ;) Thanks!
I was thinking the same thing. I couldn’t spot the other mic’d either.
Every mic, room and musician are different and also the type of "sound" your going for. Their are other methods(Mic Techniques) you can use as well, but no matter which technique along with all I mentioned above, you basically just need to learn to find the sweetspots. I would imagine Warren had the main center mic placed somewhere between the hole and 12th fret and probably about 5" to 8" out and as for the room mics he just found the sweetspots he liked, which he would have to answer. I did however see one of them and it appeared to be only a few feet away(maybe 4 or 5 feet), but couldn't tell at what angle.
Awesome guitar playing, Warren!
Only inexperienced engineers won’t get the magic that this plugin did to the low end of the guitar! I didn’t know Warren was that good on guitar 🔥🔥🔥
Thanks ever so much Benjamin for the great compliment and yes, I agree, the plug in really controlled the low end!
Warren, this is great tho it seems to me that how you mic and what Gulfoss does are 2 very different topics. Very interesting mic technique. Also: never quite understood why steel string guitars sound so much darker on supposedly linear large diafragm mics, but your video confirms my experience on that point!
Warren, this is amazing, thanks! Since you're such a great guitarist. Q: Have you consider doing a video about acoustic guitars you'd recommend? Maybe pick 3 to 5 good guitars and a price range along $500-$1000?
that lewit mic is so damn good, is that 100 dollar one ?
The 040 is $199 for the pair! Love them
Neat plugin!
ADA MP1 in the house!! Woot woot! 🎉
haha good spot!! That belongs to Glenn!!
Great sound!
Couldn't have come at a better time. I'm currently struggling with ideas on widening an acoustic guitar track.
Nice sounding Yammy acoustic guitar. Looks like it is nice to play by watching your fretting. Cool vid.
Great tutorial...if possible can we see the comparison between izotop nuetron sculptor and gullfoss...
Gullfoss is amazing! Can't imagine what soundtheory has next in their bag!
They've been talking about a Pro version, that would have more features.
Dude what *cant warren do?? Amazing producer and amazing musician! Geez Louise what a talent
Just curious warren ....are they original pces of music you did in the for the acoustic tests ? Lovely stuff ...is it "i dig a pony " ? Couldn't place it...but sounds a little like it ...
Excellent as ever Warren, so much so that I'm going to join the Academy today. I'd be interested to your your thoughts on Gullfoss which has an active approach, in comparison with Soothe 2 (which I'm trialling now) which has a reductive approach (do you agree that's correct or maybe I'm missing something)? I'm finding the latter to be subtle but good so thanks for the review and heads-up!
I don't even pretend to enjoy recording acoustic guitars. But I have to say, this mic technique and plugin combo makes me want to record acoustic guitars. I hate it when I see a plugin demo and I have to have it. 💸💸💸💸
Great stuff as always Warren! Hey, if I only have a large diaphragm and small diaphragm (Lewitt 240 and Lewitt 140air) , can I use them for spaced pair? And how do you pan when done in spaced pair? I would think the one on the body panned to the left, and one on neck panned to right, to give the listener a true sense of sitting and listening to the guitar facing them, is that right? (seems everyone pans the opposite way, which I can't get my head around!) Thank you!
When I think of not using a stereo setup, Id think of M/S. What would be the benefit of this setup over an M/S setup?
Haven't you used the Aston microphones sir ? Even they are british built just as u like 😊
interesting,- I've used voxengo soniformer (32band compressor) to do similar before - I wonder is this the kinda thing that plug is doing?
I've never whipped out my iLok so quick
Nice. What mic pres were you using for these mics?
Also, I would love to hear a comparison of the "OK sounding" recording with a "great sounding" recording. :)
Just saw the ADA in the background, is this a MP-1 or MB-1 ?
Hi sir, can we create the similar room effect with reverb plugin and gain adjusting, if we have only 1 mic to record guitar ? for ex : duplicate 2 times and pan it to the left and right , reduce the gain about -15Db, then place a reverb on each left and right channel, and the last one EQ it on the bus. Thank you in advance
Hi Warren, how different would these recordings sound with much more expensive mics like a stereo pair of Schoeps CMC ? Cheers
Pprobably a stupid question but how did they get things in phase back before digital?
They used their ears. One trick is to flip the polarity switch on one of your two mic channels (assuming you are only listening for phase with 2 at a time), and position them until they sound very "phasey". Once you get the shittiest phased out relationship between the two, flip the polarity switch back. Now it should be super close in phase relationship. I have found that this helps people who are new to listening for phase issues. It can sometimes be easier to hear the extremes than the subtleties.
And there really are no stupid questions, just jerks that don't want to be helpful sometimes.
@@MrSneakyPants man, that is deep
@@fernandoacostasanchez175 yeah, I used to do this a lot with heavy rock and metal guitar cabinets. It can be tough to align 2 or 3 mics with all that white noise going at once.
I am on very low budget and use 1640 Onyx with Martin 000.One mic comes from guitar bridge (L)and a Condenser AKG Perception 220 (R). Should I leave the settings as it is (Stereo) or Mix both sounds in the middle (mono) when recording?
Hey man is this a Yamaha LL-16 ARE or a more expensive model?
Dude i need this plugin man
Great video my friend
Thanks ever so much!
Mostly videos are about acoustic guitar long chords rythm... But how about short strumming with lot of attack like gypsy jazz 'la pompe' rythm