They used their Ai and it lied to them - this is just what expected greed makes shortcut and all those genous were fooled by what they call "ai" Guess next Intel wants to push same Ai design on all Intelchips so everyone can experince the same experience as Intel - Good times
10nm vs 5nm. They increased the power to keep up with amd 5nm chips and that's what caused them issue in there. Big mistake... A Very Big Mistake. Let's see what will be the future with Arrow lake (tsmc 3nm or intel 20A)
@@tao4124 When I got into building PCs, it was the other way around with AMD pushing their bulldozer-chips to (for the time) ridiculous power levels... but these chips didn't burn out. The Fx-9590 was rated 220 Watts.
@@KR4FTW3RK intel uses over 250, but problem in some cases seems to be cache that was changed between 12 and 13 gen, and 13 gen was 11 month rush job, and 14 gen is just a refresh
Imagine thinking intel needs to "keep up" with amd. Check their price caps. Like saying the USA needs to "keep up" with Cambodia. I'm sure Cambodia is beautiful and has many nice things. But let's be real. They might lose some sales for these chips. But that's a hiccup for them.
I usually never comment, but today I made an exception. Why? Because I want you to know that your comment is really funny, and I after a few minutes still have a smile on my face Keep being badass!
i do always use intel and always given better than retail unit too, i did buy ryzens on some machines and they all perform very well, great gaming cpus
Yup, this is the year (well next year more likely) AMD will completely overtake intel on the desktop, laptop, and server and intel will become the minority share of the market. I could honestly see Intel failing within our lifetime if they keep this up.
Intel was dead to me the day they integrated the Intel “management engine” on their chips totally outside of the users control. Even Andrew Tanenbaum, who wrote the OS it was built from, has decried it as thinly veiled spyware.
@@thathandsomedevil0828 . Nobody knows, but I'm sure its function is to open your device's 4ss-cheeks to Pegasus, why? Because Pegasus is sold for millions of dollars, and it even includes customer service! That business would not be viable if Pegasus depended on a vulnerability (as it's often said) that can be discovered and patched at any moment. That means Pegasus takes advantage of hardware-level backdoors: "Intel Management Engine" (for Intel) and "AMD Secure Technology" (for AMD). Supporting this theory is the fact that the FBI requested computers without any of those backdoors.
Yeah for AMD it's great. For consumers, not so much. If Intel shits the bed completely, we will be eventually facing another Nvidia-level monopoly, but this time in the CPU world.
Been playing WoW for 20 years, never had any significant issues. Until i got an insane gaming pc last year with one of those chips. Nearly had to give up playing, crashing every 5 minutes and spent dozens of hours troubleshooting. I defintely believe everything that is being said in this video.
@@axjkhl7699 i didnt say i only played wow or that i played 10 hours a day, did i? But no, why would i think that? It's been a blast, made great friends and other stuff. What was wasted?
How did two generations of processors launch without Intel noticing the issue during QA? I imagined their QAs were very thorough and exhaustive, that is an epic failure.
@@ilikecybermen1036 Uhm I guess literally not focusing and putting employee-skills at the top where DEI could directly or indirectly affect the quality of the whole company and it's product. Especially what OP said, Quality Assurance.
"...a bunch of electrons dance on a rock" is so funny, yet accurate it hurts. Building a processor sounds like the hardest job ever. The resulting product is magic to me.
I mean, we did figure out how to turn lead into gold a while ago. The problem is that it is very energy intensive and the result is usually radioactive. So turning sand (silica) into something worth more than gold was a close second.
It's honestly still bonkers to me that we don't have to pay 1000s of dollars to get a chip that can run billions of operations per second with such precision... the absolute ingenuity behind getting this to an affordable price is bloody impressive
Intel (burning inside)™ 14900 L Sewage Lake aka (Sandy bridge refresh refresh refresh refresh), now with 500W total power dissipation and 1% general improvement compared to last gen competitors* *=on 65W power saving config 2133MHz memory clock Talk about snake oil salesman tactics... (They accused AMD officially)
This exact thing happened to my brand new 14th Gen i7 laptop I bought for work. The motherboard lasted 2 months. Luckily I bought it from Lenovo and I think they did applied some firmware that declocked the CPU. The tech guy who came to my house to fix it said that they were purposefully overclocking these chips and didn't care that they were going to go bad but didn't think they would start to go bad this quickly. Hopefully, they'll do a recall on these and I can get my money back if this continues.
If not, there is one tool that enables the hidden bios developer mode (if that backdoor is still there) from where you can reenable userspace under/overclocking and voltage control. Another method was holding fn while off and swiping your finger over some keyboard rows then turning it back on.
People forgot that previous architecture had a problem with hyper threading and Intel solution was.. turn it off, both for old chips, and current ones that don't have it anymore. Don't know if it is incompetence, or planned obsolescence, but is close to becoming a pattern.
I personally purchased a 14900k and immediately ran into issues with the video memory issue you mentioned, spent weeks going down insane rabbit holes and replacing everything. Only to find out that the default bios settings essentially cooked my cpu, fast forward to me ordering a 14900kf, undervolting, and using all the recommended power settings provided on intels website... only for the 14900kf to slowly fail over time as well... Intel has pretty much lost me as a customer for a very long time, I've had no issues with either of my AMD systems.
I ran into a dude who insisted that failure to undervolt an Intel K-processor counted as user error. You don't have to worry about Intel running out of customers any time soon.
Pretty sure the "don't be an early adopter" motto reigns supreme to this day. It's never failed me. If you look at every hardware manufacturer, they have stories like this throughout the history of time. Intel, AMD, nVidia, Apple all of them. This isn't something new. It comes with territory of "having the latest and greatest" hardware.
Wow, I didn't realize quite the bullet I was dodging when I got a cheap 12700k a year back rather than something new. I even got a free NVME drive with the open box motherboard (hiding under the heatsink). Crazy luck in retrospect.
This is a crazy vid. Thanks for reporting on this. I started having these issues almost year ago on my 13th gen. Drove me nuts. Thought it was nvdia the whole time but then managed to narrow it down to my CPU. Disabled all my E cores and now finally no more crashing on anything... But thats like a majority of my cpu...
If u want high quality Ryzen cpus it’s better to get the 7800x3d (expensive but is stable and rivals both 13th and 14th gen intel cpus in performance) the 7600x if your just trying to get on am5 (still a very capable processor)
I still run 6th gen. Meanwhile my mom has 3rd gen. Neither of us has any issues. Then again we both aren't really power users. I game occasionally, but it's mostly sufficient for the kind of games i'm playing
@@adreto2978 issues can be in all raptor lake chips, including i7s and i5s, also laptop chips.Yes, on warframe posts>75% of crashes were i9s, but in the rest you had 14700 and 13700
@@ilxplaycope harder. Then your Intel that eats almost 4x more power to barely catch up with AMD will get 9% performance hit before going out in flames. You can then quote Cheech and Chong's "up in smoke, that's where my money goes" xD
Here's the truth, a little bit of inside info: There is no bad microcode, the mobos are not broken, there are no flaws. The issue is with the CPU's architecture. You see, since the 12th gen intel started including the Efficiency-cores. Now those cores are running on the same bus as the Performance cores. With the last 2 gens (13th and 14th), to keep up with AMD, intel just drastically increased the clocks. This clock increase is severely heating the bus between these chips. It was not designed to run at these frequencies and temperatures, hence the obscene amount of crashes. Intel knows this because the guys from the QA department brought this up to management and management said "Fuck it, let's just milk these last 2-3 years since we are on the verge of releasing the new re-designed series." This is why they avoid doing anything because they know they can't fix and it's why they've been shifting the blame for so long. They are pushing for time. I know the whole story behind it, I simply chose to stay quiet for a long time because of reasons. I advise downclocking to 4.4-4.8ghz and the cpu will operate flawlessly, unless yours is broken after such a long time of running at the high clocks.
It's not like every failure results in a crash. Imagine all the non-crashing data corruption these could be causing. Definitely won't be getting a PC with one of these in it.
After the patch: Corrupting things no one notices until it's impossible to trace 😅 I think it's their new marketing strategy to sell more chips - they just turned the dial up too much at first.
I bought a 13600k for my new (first) build. I enabled the intel default profile and it has a massive cooler (idles at 35c). I'm praying that my i5 will last. If not, I can't waste time switching out the mobo. I'll just get a 12700k.
This video validated my experience with my 14900k for the last year... ive had every single one of these problems and have had to underclock using extreme tuning utility to not bluescreen constantly. Im so mad i didnt just stick to amd
First time ever to use an amd for me was at the beginning of the handheld pc era and I must say I'm really impressed! Took it a step further and decided to try one of those pre-built AMD eGPUs and again it hasn't disappointed at all! Watch out Intel!
Admitting it publicly, means admitting fault, and admitting fault means admitting liability for a massive class action lawsuit, and and admitting liability means line go down and line goes down means no extra billions.
"Diversity, equity, and inclusion have long been Intel’s core values and are instrumental to driving innovation and delivering strong business growth." I mean they say it right on their website
Moores law is dead said from his sources that the problem could be with cache degrading because it wasnt made for that many cores also that guys from Intel were proud of them designing the chip to launch in 11 months.
@@Navhkrin Since underclocking the CPU seems to fix the issue in big part I guess they can actually fix it, but the fix will decrease the performance. It's similar story to several vulnerabilities found in Intel and AMD CPUs related to Hyper Threading - you can make them safer by disabling it, but performance decreases. In case of those vulnerabilities, it was done mostly by server admins, who need it for security reasons, while others just usually accept the risk or have no idea about it. I think this is what they are working on - how to apply the patch for those, who need it, while not decreasing the performance for those, whose usage pattern won't trigger the error
Got a 13th gen chip this past year. Been in contact with Intel for months with these exact problems, specifically issues at X referenced memory. Intel has been "clueless" about this issue when discussing with me and won't cover the warranty replacement or refund. Have had more help on random intel forum posts and reddit from other people who have these issues. Finally, I have been able to get a SOMEWHAT stable fix when underclocking the voltage, but still super disappointing.
That's what happens when you just keep dumping more and more power into them instead of making actual architecture improvements, just to claim the highest clock speeds. Doesn't matter how high the clock speeds are if the chip burns out and doesn't work, you get no clock speed.
Their at the very limit of what architecture improvements they can implement. Problem with Intel is they refuse to spend a dime on improving how much cache their stuff has. Intel machines could be lightspeeds faster if they simply added more cache to their chips.
@@honkhonk8009 Cache size depends directly on transistor density, and this depends directly on manufacturing technology. As Extreme Ultraviolet Litography is reaching its limits, improvements in manufacturing have become ridiculously costly. Intel produces it's own chips, while AMD uses services of TSMC. TSMC benefits from industry wide funding (for example, they also make Apple chips). I don't think Intel "refuses to spend a dime on improving how much cache their stuff has", it's just insanely costly.
Phenom? FX series? LLano and any other APUs? Sempron? And don't even get me started on Single Core/Thread performance. Sure, you might have 256 thousand cores, but that doesn't mean much when 99% of software can fully utilize four of them. Want to play the milsim ARMA 3? Better not have an AMD.
Uh you know what , Arma likes cache. You know what lots of cache is in? X3D. Even crappy optimised games like star citizen runs faster with that cache.
@@TheeGlocktopus Did you just wake up from some sort of experimental cryosleep program?You're about a decade behind in your Anti-AMD trash talking. Intel chips usually have way more cores than AMD chips nowadays on account of them tacking on 6-8 "efficiency" cores to everything. Hence we get "14" core i5s that perform like an AMD 6-8 core cpu but will win in multithread benchmarks that use the extra "efficiency" cores. You're also behind on the notion that only 4 cores get used. Alot of AAA games in recent years really suffer or won't even run properly on anything less than 6 physical cores. You're supposed to be complaining about AMD cpu firmware having bugs at launch or Zen 2 processors being in the Zen 3 lineup, or something like that.
I have an I5 14500k. I thought it was just me who had this problem: my PC would crash randomly and blue screen. My browser would crash some tabs and say that I didn't have enough memory. I reinstalled Windows, and the issue persisted. This video explains a lot!
@@gildg7806 I thought about that, but the problem is that it would be too expensive. Switching to my current CPU cost me ~ $500$ because I needed a new motherboard.
@@gildg7806 we are going to witness AMD become the new villain in the CPU market. I am sure they are going to increase their price tag because the completion will likely die for a while due to Intel's idiocy.
Holy shit yea that was INSANE. The fact that even got approved, and went through the upper management who thought "yea, this looks sane, lets put this out PUBLICLY" is bonkers. Gamers nexus ripped them a new one :D Like holy fuck, that is really what helped with my next cpu being amd...
Wait. Isn't AMD an American company too ? Driven by the same moral values as intel and boeing ? That is greed, and more greed ? It's only a matter of time before similar issues happen at AMD (outsource anything and everything to india and wherever, don't raise employees salaries, raise top management's salaries to silly amounts, cut costs on innovation, etc...). Our hope is that the Koreans/Taiwanese/Japanese take over this industry.
@@johnsmith-ro2twZen 5 will be a real wake up call for a lot of people. It's obvious AMD is positioning itself to announce some insane MSRP's with Ryzen 9000 series.
I had a problem with Vbox and VMware where enabling 3d accerleration would lead in a 99% chance of the guest system crashing. I thought this was some kind of NVidia problem but no, probably my 13th gen intel core i7 processor.
Insane that I a comment about this, literally like 20 minutes ago I had to turn off the 3D accel because Ubuntu wouldn't start after upgrading from 22 to 24 LTS. 13700KF too, guess we're all fkd
Amd was known for their chips burning about a decade ago and fixed the issue and left intel in the dust. the only people that still use intel should be large businesses that refuse to change and still use massively outdated intel chips. Amd outpreforms at every metric and has for a long time, including cost
So around a year ago my coworker was building a new machine and it keep crashing and that thing uses a i9 13900K. He sacked the CPU over to me last February and I couldn’t figure out why it was crashing randomly eithe. I ended up contacting intel support to see if I can RMA the thing, but then told me to turn on Intel Fail safe mode in the BIOS, which then stopped those crashes. That was back just back in May. I mean, I got a free CPU, so I shouldn’t be complaining, but I can’t believe this shit is only being discovered now. I legitimately thought this i9 I have was just a faulty one off
I am so very, very, glad that I went with 12th gen Intel. I bought my laptop 6 months before 13th gen came out. Having "new" CPUs coming in 6 months was a concern of mine but I went with the model I chose. Phew, that was close.
14900k here, disabling C-States and using the extreme settings helped me get rid of the crashes, but will not allow you to use Visual Studio. It will crash(the software) on launch. Finally got the 11c bios update for a Gigabyte Gaming X AX mobo and loaded intel's extreme settings which seems pretty stable at this moment - also allows me to use VS again. I think the PC froze once or twice when playing around with an Azure agent.
Just had my first BSOD yesterday while making a RAR file. Confirmed that making a RAR file tanked my 14900k, but Cinebench was fine. After updating BIOS with the new Intel mitigations it's working for now.
This literally happened to me 2 months ago. Had a i9-13900KF shut down, bsod, gpu error, screens turn off all randomly degrading over time until I RMA'd the thing, had it replaced with a i9-14900KF and literally had the same issue and had to be replaced by yet another 14900KF.
If there is a trade in program in the computer stores near you, you could use it to sell your Intel motherboard and parts and trade it with AMD Ryzen processor and motherboard at much cheaper additional price
I've crashed twice in two days. Its been right after launching valorant and as soon as I load into the game the first time. When I reconnect after the reboot there isn't an issue. Got a 24hr ban for it hahahahah.
Underclock and undervolt doesn't solve it. Heck some say the opposite might be needed. This is a complex issue and it seems like all of these CPUs will deteriorate at some point. I would consider returning it if possible.
So glad I went with a 12400F, no problems, from a 4790K. 12th gen works just as well to me for what I need it for. Bonus was migrating from DDR3 1866, SATA 3 SSD over to DDR5 6000 and NVme M.2 SSD. Kept the same GTX 1080ti, with aftermarket Morpheus cooler. Maybe I will get another run for many years out of this, like the last setup.
I had to limit the wattage on my 14900KF to far below what my cooler is supposed capable of handling, or it would just crash on any task that put the CPU usage near 100% (if temps went into the 75C to 90C range). As an example: I use Linux with proprietary Nvidia drivers, so when I update, the Nvidia kernel modules need to be compiled, which is a very CPU intensive task. I got into a situation with my 14900KF where it would immediately start throwing MCE hardware errors during compilation before kernel panicking in the middle of the update, which is a pretty big problem because it leaves you with a broken installation and a broken package manager which all needs to be manually cleaned up. This was not an intermittent problem, this was happening EVERY SINGLE TIME I tried to update. I couldn't get my install working again until I lied to the BIOS and told it that I was using the stock Intel box cooler so that it would limit the power usage as much as possible.
You know everyone was using intel to avoid this instability issue that was present on ryzens? 😅 Just google "is intel more stable than amd" and look at stuff from few years ago.
I did not noticed as I dont watch this crap from longer time :). Initially I watched but had very bad opinion about this channel. You can notice right away it is not about reliable information or ethical but more "show" and "hype". He does not mention probably because she would make harm with "sponsors" (but as I does not watch it from longer time i can be wrong of course :) ). Ps. There was also other controversies with Linus later after i already dropped watching this channel.
The Linus Tech Tips channel is mostly an entertainment channel now. They don't really ever do dedicated deep dives or videos about news. At most you get a TechLinked video with a 2 minute segment on it.
Maybe because the core issue is still under investigation. So that's why the main channel still hasn't covered this news. But Techlinked has certainly covered it a while ago. They don't want to rush to make a video about this thing currently. They learned their lesson of making rushed videos.
LTT really has nothing to add to the conversation here. It would make a very boring and unsatisfying video with no conclusion. Bascially only repeating information from other sources. This is not what LTT usually does on the main channel. Something like "The Most UNRELIABLE Gaming PC" would be a more LTTish way of covering a topic like that. But not as long as the story is still evolving.
Since I built my first PC at the end of the last year, I had instability issues with my 14th gen, and it was sad. I read dozens of posts online, videos, even reassembled the whole cpu cooler thinking I had applied thermal paste wrong... I can add that I got it stable by running at default settings with latest BIOS AND (important) disabling XMP1, so I have to run my 128 GB RAM at 4k MT/s instead of 5.6k MT/s. I even stopped sending games crash reports because I assumed it was on my end so not to confuse the developers. So it's relieving to see this video.
switched from intel to amd for the first in 15 years, rocking a 7800x3d and its doing fantastic for over a year now with a pretty heavy memmory overclock and infinity fabric OC..
the reason why i dont chose Intel is that, when i touch the laptops at the supermarket, the ones running on Intel are always super warm (when room température is 20°C)
@@dtibor5903 thats all very nice but what are you using it for? If ur just web browsing and using office that doesnt tell us anything besides the fact that it itsnt complete rubbish
I'm glad I'm still running an i7-7700K. I can still play all my games at the highest settings. Windows 11 doesn't officially support it but it runs fine, so I've gotten about 7 years out of this CPU so far. I'm hoping to get at least a decade before I even consider upgrading.
That's what happens when you do 100% vertical and horizontal manufacturing integration. Intel was stuck on 22nm node for years before it was able to shine it with "difficulties". Now we know the difficulties are there because they do not have tech to do smaller nodes very efficiently and make flawless chips. Jim keller left or was forced to leave within months because of this, for those who don't know him, he's a vetern in chip designer who has contributed to almost all companies who designs modern processors so most of us are using his derivative works one way or another. AMD switched to Samsung and TSMC until global foundries did catch up and there are still few more years before AMD will switch back or start making other chips with their good old friend. In my experience of hardwares, recent hardware have failed alot more than old ones so it's common to question quality of what we are getting for what we are paying. The per clock performance is almost stagnant since a decade now and more squeeze is happening in pipelines and lookup and retiring logic these days. Intel is known to be notorious, for example MKL was defacto supressing performance on non intel chips, which is now outperformed by other BLAS implementations working even faster on Intel chips and AMD chips as well. The company has alot of shady past, this is great example of how monopolies can not stay forever if they are overconfident. AMD was 4B company a decade ago, look at them how they evolved with good leadership and strategic research with limited budgets and market share while competing against 4 major companies ( Intel, Qualcomm, nVidia ) and many other smaller companies in mobile, server, desktop, GPU and telecom sectors.
3:17 You literally took the words out of my mind. I'm running a 12700k and I'm so glad to not have went for 13th or 14th gen. Will be moving to AM5 and 7800x3D
To me this is just an indication of the following: When buying a new CPU or hardware in general always, ALWAYS worry about the temperatures you are getting. Test the heck out of it when you buy it. With my I7 14700K that I recently bought I smelled something fishy when I did stress test benchmarks and it was pushed over 100 degrees C consistently on those on a Dark Rock Pro 5. Thankfully it never really reaches those temperatures in my actual usage, even with high end gaming.
My understanding of the issue is that Intel's 12th gen processors were fairly good, but in order to get 13th/14th gen (they're basically the same gen, fight me) to market, they had to rush the architecture design, and they rapidly adapted 12th gen into a new architecture by adding more little cores and cache, but in rapidly adapting 12th gen into something it wasn't quite meant to be, they introduced the issues. I'm pretty sure future architectures won't have the issue, as they're ground up redesigns, but I'm also not sure enough to recommend my friends anything other than AMD until I've seen next gen intel chips lasting for more than two years.
If this were the case, Intel would quickly solve the existing problems, everything would be as transparent as possible, and silence most likely indicates that: either a deep quality check is being carried out, and I think that's why Intel is postponing the release of new products (maybe I don't know something, and that's just my guess), or a very expensive solution is required to cover the cost of marriage, which will radically change the approach to production technology
you mean the 12th gen that finaly can catch up to ryzen 5000 when 10th and 11th gen failed ? dont be foolish, every Ryzen 5000 CPU is better then a intel 12th gen for sure and upgrade path of a 12th gen to 13/14 is something nobody want to risk even on a used market in a year.
@@allxtend4005 In this context I meant "good" as in terms of reliability as it related to the specific issue in the video. Generally I've preferred Ryzen processors overall for every generation they've released as it always felt that they offered better value for what I wanted at the time, but it's not as though Intel chips haven't had reasons to buy them, as well. It's more a matter of what tradeoffs you're willing to accept, what you need out of your processor, and if you do custom workloads to the metal that can take full advantage of all the features available which you're paying for when buying the processor.
Don't forget that the same MOBO companies increased voltages above and beyond for Intel processors to achieve higher performance than their competitors. Due to such high voltages and temperatures, intel cpus were prone to failure, thus why mobo companies started releasing the "baseline" profile that followed intels standard set voltages and frequencies, and the range of performance loss was between 10 to 15% when you set it to that profile.
You might be able to prevent or delay issues by making some changes in the bios if you're willing to experiment. My 13900k has been stable for over a year. I did however change some settings in my (gigabyte) bios the moment I got the chip.. In case you are interested: limited the wattage to intel recommended, disabled all gigabyte overclock settings, set the ac/dc loadline preset to medium (which slightly increases the base voltage iirc), undervolted the chip when under heavy loads using the vf points. (-100mv when all p cores are at 5.5-5.8ghz, -0.8~ at 5.4, -0.6 at 5.3 etc). I also reduced the SA voltage to 1.2v from the mobo default 1.28v. These settings have left me with a perfectly stable chip so far and no performance loss in benchmark. My ram is running at 7200mts with tuned timings using buildzoid recommendations and some experimenting myself.
So glad I went all amd this time, no melting power connectors, no unstable chips with glaring design flaws. Also was much cheaper while being only 10 percent behind
There is no way this is JUST breaking news. There are so many people within the gaming community that have been saying this for literally years. In fact, it's been a common fix for years too to just underclock these chips. The crash occurs for basically any DX12 games, most often in UE5 games due to their use of the newer technologies.
The new issues are not just gaming, include data corruption, memory data integrity issues and Intel CPU servers crashes... Some people get the CPU working with underclocking it, but there are some units with really huge degradation that have errors in any clock and voltage. But mainly top of the line 13th and 14th Gen, in the video of level 1 techs, He shows data that shows that 12th gen looks fine (slightly higher failure than AMD on servers and some games, but nothing unusual)
@@lefthornet Also important to note is that not all errors cause crashes, most probably go unnoticed. The data Wendel provides also slightly under reports game errors since the telemetry cannot report hard crashes like BSODs. The server data is harrowing. 50% will have stability-related errors, 10-15% are so bad they need to be replaced. It's gotten so bad a three-year support package for the 13/14 gen i9 CPUs cost around 1000 dollars more than equivalent AMD systems (over 100 vs over 1000).
I mean there were signs before but it's only recently groups have come forward with some cold hard data proving that the issue is real which I think that is news worthy.
I bought my I7-13700K Q4/2022. Was stable for 9 months. Then very random CTD crashes started during playing Crusaders Kings 3 (but nowhere else) approx once per one hour. And it's been getting worse ever since. A month ago, other games started crashing as well. Just random CTD, not BSOD. The solution I found after changin almost all components, reinstall system few times to another drive - was to disable turbo mode and lower the CPU voltages. That's about 40% performance loss. The question was for how long. Because obviously the silicon in this CPU degrades over time much faster than we were used to before. Hopefully a permanent solution cost me just 1400USD. Asrock X670E Taichi + Ryzen 7800X3D + Water cooling + 64GB DDR5 RAM.
I've had this problem since New Year's when I set up my new PC. Initially, I thought I had set it up incorrectly. However, after updating the BIOS a month ago, my i9-14900K system has been running faster and hasn't crashed since.
@alaskandonut From what I've seen so far, the more budget oriented chips aren't affected. Or at least, they appear WAY less susceptible to this problem. Might be because they target more modest boost frequencies, which means the peak voltages are also way lower.
holly sh*t, that SSD and ram corruption is actually vey serious. gonna have to regularly be making sure all my backup scripts have completed successfully just in case my ssd's get corrupted.
Felt there was something wrong with Intel's approach since the introduction of their 12th gen. They just couldn't keep up with AMD and had to "invent" something special and overclock their silicon like there is no tomorrow. Very glad i went with AMD this time. BTW my i7 4790K is still running daily (undervolted.)
I used to buy hardware just because "Number Bigger" it has been over a decade since whenever I am almost about to convince myself I need a new rig, something dissuades me. Thanks for kicking my next upgrade another couple of years further.
I have no problem buying second hand AMD parts and selling my old. Thanks to AM4, i can kick my rig upgrade further until my mobo gives up. :D (im waiting for my friend to upgrade his GPU, 6800XT for under 200€ is a long kick)
Honestly the newest machine I have is 5 years old and my newest laptop is 6 years old and the laptop I am typing this on is an 2011 Dell E-Series Latitude which works fine with Linux.
Yeah, it’s funny that CPUs got up to about 3GHz about 20 years ago, and since then it just feels like slow walking in more cache and cores. Very impressive gains after 20 years, but harder to notice year over year.
Funny, when raptor lake was first shown off one of the primary pr pushes was insisting that constantly sitting at near boiling temperatures was actually just fine for the cpu and the silicon could handle it!
Reminds me of the same BS but with Spectre/Meltdown to sell more cpus of ''competing'' company. Yet we didn't hear anyone being hacked because of it and I've not heard anyone crashing on these cpus. I own 13700k working at 5.6 ghz at 1.25v with 7000 mhz ram and its been rock solid working 24/7 for 2nd year now, no crashes. Idle cpu usage is around 2-5 watts and under load its 20-55 wats on average in games and its been decoding into av1 format for few months now 24/7, 0 issues.
3 месяца назад+4
I immediately went check which generation my chip is. 10th gen. Being broke saved me this time 🤣
As someone who upgraded my AMD 3600 cpu to a 13900k and I work in 3D applications, I regret upgrading. I have to underclock my 13900k at 3ghz to make it remotely stable to run blender...
Dude 3Ghz is way too low. I would be more concerned with the power consumption and cooling for the processor. Maybe check how much power your cpu is consuming at peak. Many new bios have set limits to power limits. Try to limit the power consumption to 150-200 watts and maybe 4-4.5Ghz shouldn't be a problem. I mean if your work is doable with 3Ghz then good for you.
@@ydfhlx5923 to get another broken CPU... at this point I will wait this out, as long warranty is still there. Can still ask for RMA after 2 years and 11 months. Getting the same broken CPU back again is no solution.
This explains so much; my 13th gen CPU computer now crashes while trying to reinstall windows, and I gave up trying to figure out what was wrong with it last week. 😞
Intel annual net income for 2023 was $1.689B, so who cares? Main goal of a company is to make profits not chips. Are the shareholders happy? its all that matters...
shareholders know consumers are the bottom line... consumers stop trusting a company, they lose market share or go bankrupt. seems hard to imagine for Intel but losing market share is a serious concern especially with the rise of ARM chips everywhere.
@@gorak9000 "In the fourth quarter, the company generated $4.6 billion in cash from operations and paid dividends of $0.5 billion." they might not be as happy an nvidia, but they are wayy more happy than customers... (and in reality nvidia shareholders are also intel shareholders)
AMD: "When your enemy is making a mistake don't interrupt them."
Eeriely close to Art of War.
Zao Ti Zoo
*"don't IRQ them"
@@koloblicin4599 You old bastard! You used to use jumpers on circuit boards.
/I kinda miss that amount of control 😔
@@koloblicin4599 Very nice
Ai not mentioned🎊🎉🍾
thank god
f-AI-lure rate
They used their Ai and it lied to them - this is just what expected greed makes shortcut and all those genous were fooled by what they call "ai" Guess next Intel wants to push same Ai design on all Intelchips so everyone can experince the same experience as Intel - Good times
if you listen carefully at 0:14 he says "and" which has A and at 0:42 he says "intel" which has I so its AI, so he did mention AI
We are all AI on this cursed day
In their desperation to somehow keep up with AMD, Intel has cranked their chips so much they now burn themselves out. Bravo!
Yes, they won in benchmarks, but, in the long run, they fail terribly.
10nm vs 5nm. They increased the power to keep up with amd 5nm chips and that's what caused them issue in there. Big mistake... A Very Big Mistake.
Let's see what will be the future with Arrow lake (tsmc 3nm or intel 20A)
@@tao4124 When I got into building PCs, it was the other way around with AMD pushing their bulldozer-chips to (for the time) ridiculous power levels... but these chips didn't burn out. The Fx-9590 was rated 220 Watts.
@@KR4FTW3RK intel uses over 250, but problem in some cases seems to be cache that was changed between 12 and 13 gen, and 13 gen was 11 month rush job, and 14 gen is just a refresh
Imagine thinking intel needs to "keep up" with amd. Check their price caps. Like saying the USA needs to "keep up" with Cambodia.
I'm sure Cambodia is beautiful and has many nice things. But let's be real.
They might lose some sales for these chips. But that's a hiccup for them.
Intel: The Boeing of CPUs
X86 Max?
none has died from their cpus tho…
do they kill whistleblowers too?
I love that simply "Boeing" became a derogatory term.
@@Cheffamily False, I in fact died last week from their chips.
I have an i9-14900k and can confirm, this has been a living hell. Web pages randomly crashing, blue screens, and discord dying. This is horrible.
Switch to AMD, brother.. 😊
@@thathandsomedevil0828 ah yes smd one of the best semiconductor companies of all time 😃
@@thathandsomedevil0828'AMD'
I'm still willing to give Intel a chance on Arrow Lake because of new 2nm process... but this issue definitely gives me second thoughts.
That sucks, So glad i got the ryzen 7 7800x3d
When there's an error when im playing a video game I usually blame Microsoft, now I can blame intel too.
I usually never comment, but today I made an exception.
Why?
Because I want you to know that your comment is really funny, and I after a few minutes still have a smile on my face
Keep being badass!
You should blame your mom.
Videogames usally uses AMD or ARM.
@@josiaswando9561 what does that even mean?
@@YIPPY-xf8pifair.
This has been the best free marketing AMD could've never asked for
i do always use intel and always given better than retail unit too,
i did buy ryzens on some machines and they all perform very well, great gaming cpus
"Our CPUs actually work!"
But still not effective. Because most Intel users are uneducated and denied this facts. That why Intel market share decrease but so slowly.
Yup, this is the year (well next year more likely) AMD will completely overtake intel on the desktop, laptop, and server and intel will become the minority share of the market. I could honestly see Intel failing within our lifetime if they keep this up.
Unless they asked for
Processor ❌ Bunch of electrons jumping around on a rock✅
what's the difference
@@ME0WMERE poetry
it's actually accurate
Bunch of electrons dancing around on sand
@@DekarNL Sand ❌Bunch of tiny yellow rocks✅
Next 15th Gen Intel: "Fire Lake"
Chernobyl Lake - "Meltdown Edition"
Perfectly suited for a fire ship
Or Solar Lake
Nuclear lake
With the amount of energy and heat they'll evaporate the lake.
Intel was dead to me the day they integrated the Intel “management engine” on their chips totally outside of the users control. Even Andrew Tanenbaum, who wrote the OS it was built from, has decried it as thinly veiled spyware.
Interesting, but AMD has introduce a similar feature as well?
What does that do exactly?
@@thathandsomedevil0828 . Nobody knows, but I'm sure its function is to open your device's 4ss-cheeks to Pegasus, why?
Because Pegasus is sold for millions of dollars, and it even includes customer service! That business would not be viable if Pegasus depended on a vulnerability (as it's often said) that can be discovered and patched at any moment.
That means Pegasus takes advantage of hardware-level backdoors: "Intel Management Engine" (for Intel) and "AMD Secure Technology" (for AMD). Supporting this theory is the fact that the FBI requested computers without any of those backdoors.
The American government forced them to implement it. It’s a back door for the feds
@@milanstoyakov much more limited
Thanks for the shout out and great rundown!
Thanks, youtuber level1techs!
jk, hi wendell!
AMD does nothing.
Its competition keeps shooting itself in the foot.
The best marketing strategy
If there wouldn't be any competition AMD will become what intel was in the past "Greedy".
Yeah for AMD it's great. For consumers, not so much. If Intel shits the bed completely, we will be eventually facing another Nvidia-level monopoly, but this time in the CPU world.
They stole that strat from China.
Feature of last stage capitalism.
Same like Boeing and Airbus
@@computerscience1101 That is just market forces at work. Greed is a feature of them. The Board's fiduciary duty to shareholder's demands it
Man I need to start doing that error reporting style...
prefix every fatal exception with "User error:"
That is only true if the user and the buyer are the same person. In other words, it won't work if you sell B2B.
The way of the linux community
this has me dead hahahaha Im gonna start implementing this
They put general error and blame the user, when its their error...
User error: cannot read name of undefined 😃
Been playing WoW for 20 years, never had any significant issues. Until i got an insane gaming pc last year with one of those chips. Nearly had to give up playing, crashing every 5 minutes and spent dozens of hours troubleshooting.
I defintely believe everything that is being said in this video.
and you don't regret waisting 20 years of your life playing WoW? 😳
@@axjkhl7699 i didnt say i only played wow or that i played 10 hours a day, did i? But no, why would i think that? It's been a blast, made great friends and other stuff. What was wasted?
i dont think so you did a good utilisation of your time playing 20 years on wow
@@axjkhl7699really?
@@axjkhl7699tf? Are you mad he dissed intel?
How did two generations of processors launch without Intel noticing the issue during QA? I imagined their QAs were very thorough and exhaustive, that is an epic failure.
DEI I guess
@@w1z4rd9 what?????
@@ilikecybermen1036 Diversity, equity, and inclusion
Yes it exists.
@@w1z4rd9 I get that I just don't see what possible relevance it could have here.
@@ilikecybermen1036 Uhm I guess literally not focusing and putting employee-skills at the top where DEI could directly or indirectly affect the quality of the whole company and it's product. Especially what OP said, Quality Assurance.
"...a bunch of electrons dance on a rock" is so funny, yet accurate it hurts. Building a processor sounds like the hardest job ever. The resulting product is magic to me.
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
@@moonik665 Caruth R Ekralc
I mean, we did figure out how to turn lead into gold a while ago. The problem is that it is very energy intensive and the result is usually radioactive. So turning sand (silica) into something worth more than gold was a close second.
I study electrical engineering and it's really cool. It's almost an art form at a certain point.
It's honestly still bonkers to me that we don't have to pay 1000s of dollars to get a chip that can run billions of operations per second with such precision... the absolute ingenuity behind getting this to an affordable price is bloody impressive
Just rename them to "Sewage Lake"
Intel (burning inside)™ 14900 L Sewage Lake aka (Sandy bridge refresh refresh refresh refresh), now with 500W total power dissipation and 1% general improvement compared to last gen competitors*
*=on 65W power saving config 2133MHz memory clock
Talk about snake oil salesman tactics... (They accused AMD officially)
I am not using intel more than 5 years now...
@@akosv96 DDR4 and DDR5 did indeed require changes in the circuitry, it's not exactly the same as sandy bridge
When u think 11th Gen Lava Lake is bad enough... Intel proves us wrong 😂
A waste of sand!
Phew, I'm so happy I did not put the sticker on mine.
Underrated comment
While the AI comment is overated videos after videos
@@lucasmonteban this makes no sense
smort
@@lucasmonteban ?????
This exact thing happened to my brand new 14th Gen i7 laptop I bought for work. The motherboard lasted 2 months. Luckily I bought it from Lenovo and I think they did applied some firmware that declocked the CPU. The tech guy who came to my house to fix it said that they were purposefully overclocking these chips and didn't care that they were going to go bad but didn't think they would start to go bad this quickly.
Hopefully, they'll do a recall on these and I can get my money back if this continues.
If not, there is one tool that enables the hidden bios developer mode (if that backdoor is still there) from where you can reenable userspace under/overclocking and voltage control.
Another method was holding fn while off and swiping your finger over some keyboard rows then turning it back on.
@@_DSch 🤔
People forgot that previous architecture had a problem with hyper threading and Intel solution was.. turn it off, both for old chips, and current ones that don't have it anymore. Don't know if it is incompetence, or planned obsolescence, but is close to becoming a pattern.
@mariovazquez3874 So that's why they removed hypertreading , I had no idea
I personally purchased a 14900k and immediately ran into issues with the video memory issue you mentioned, spent weeks going down insane rabbit holes and replacing everything. Only to find out that the default bios settings essentially cooked my cpu, fast forward to me ordering a 14900kf, undervolting, and using all the recommended power settings provided on intels website... only for the 14900kf to slowly fail over time as well... Intel has pretty much lost me as a customer for a very long time, I've had no issues with either of my AMD systems.
I ran into a dude who insisted that failure to undervolt an Intel K-processor counted as user error. You don't have to worry about Intel running out of customers any time soon.
So let me get this straight.
You did all that rabbit hole research and then went and bought ANOTHER one of the same cpu?
Pretty sure the "don't be an early adopter" motto reigns supreme to this day. It's never failed me. If you look at every hardware manufacturer, they have stories like this throughout the history of time. Intel, AMD, nVidia, Apple all of them. This isn't something new. It comes with territory of "having the latest and greatest" hardware.
What do I do when I just spent $4500 dollars on a intel 14900KS build
@@shriram5494might have thought his unit was a dud
"Overflowing stack of problems" 😂😂😂
Where the code becomes curses
And systems become blasphemy
And the bit horses of troy unite on some dead guy's birthday
You will know us
@@Un_Pour_Tous 😂😂
Well at least it's not a 110% failure rate. So that's good..
Yet.. 🤣
Always look to the bright side
Ah, the good old days of the Pentium 5.
😂
110% with a 10% margin of error
Wow, I didn't realize quite the bullet I was dodging when I got a cheap 12700k a year back rather than something new. I even got a free NVME drive with the open box motherboard (hiding under the heatsink). Crazy luck in retrospect.
This is a crazy vid. Thanks for reporting on this. I started having these issues almost year ago on my 13th gen. Drove me nuts. Thought it was nvdia the whole time but then managed to narrow it down to my CPU. Disabled all my E cores and now finally no more crashing on anything... But thats like a majority of my cpu...
I am glad my broke ass doesnt have lastest 13th and 14th gen Intel
I'm so poor that I had to buy Ryzens which turned out to be probably a good thing.
not worth the 6000$ either for 600 you can get a 7900x and it works better
If u want high quality Ryzen cpus it’s better to get the 7800x3d (expensive but is stable and rivals both 13th and 14th gen intel cpus in performance) the 7600x if your just trying to get on am5 (still a very capable processor)
I could have bought one when I was getting stuff for the PC build, but I decided a 12th gen was good enough.
I still run 6th gen. Meanwhile my mom has 3rd gen. Neither of us has any issues. Then again we both aren't really power users. I game occasionally, but it's mostly sufficient for the kind of games i'm playing
>finaly build a high end machine
>13700k
Me too. About two months of usage, mainly for 3D renders and Stable Diffusion. No problems whatsoever.
@@j_shelby_damnwird almost 8 months for the same use and no problems guess we got lucky, but maybe next time I should try some amd cpus
13700k is stable I think it's just 13900k and 14900k
One year and 5 months for me, no issues, hopefully I don't regret saying that 🤣🤣 i7-13700KF
@@adreto2978 issues can be in all raptor lake chips, including i7s and i5s, also laptop chips.Yes, on warframe posts>75% of crashes were i9s, but in the rest you had 14700 and 13700
The extra cache in AMD's x3d convinced me to get an AMD CPU this time around
looks like I made the right choice
I'm waiting for when handhelds get an x3D variant
no you didn't LMAO
@@ilxplay What does this mean exactly because "LMAO" isn't a valid argument?
@@ilxplaycope harder. Then your Intel that eats almost 4x more power to barely catch up with AMD will get 9% performance hit before going out in flames.
You can then quote Cheech and Chong's "up in smoke, that's where my money goes" xD
x3d chips ❤
Here's the truth, a little bit of inside info: There is no bad microcode, the mobos are not broken, there are no flaws. The issue is with the CPU's architecture. You see, since the 12th gen intel started including the Efficiency-cores. Now those cores are running on the same bus as the Performance cores. With the last 2 gens (13th and 14th), to keep up with AMD, intel just drastically increased the clocks. This clock increase is severely heating the bus between these chips. It was not designed to run at these frequencies and temperatures, hence the obscene amount of crashes. Intel knows this because the guys from the QA department brought this up to management and management said "Fuck it, let's just milk these last 2-3 years since we are on the verge of releasing the new re-designed series." This is why they avoid doing anything because they know they can't fix and it's why they've been shifting the blame for so long. They are pushing for time. I know the whole story behind it, I simply chose to stay quiet for a long time because of reasons. I advise downclocking to 4.4-4.8ghz and the cpu will operate flawlessly, unless yours is broken after such a long time of running at the high clocks.
How about oxidation problems?
I hate to tell you; this isn't a 100% crash rate. Not at least with the 14900k. There is no way I won the silicon lottery 150 times.
it's still bad
It's not like every failure results in a crash. Imagine all the non-crashing data corruption these could be causing. Definitely won't be getting a PC with one of these in it.
Yes, this is what has me more on edge than anything. I wouldn't want random data corruption that I only notice years later.
@@seeibe I have a 14th gen and before the bios update it would fuck my windows install and corrupt it so I had to run DISM like every other day
After the patch: Corrupting things no one notices until it's impossible to trace 😅
I think it's their new marketing strategy to sell more chips - they just turned the dial up too much at first.
Yikes, I think I'd rather have a component straight up burn out than malfunction like this
What gen is Intel Evo?
"On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero"
Truly one of the quotes of all time
Does not even need to be that long. Just 100 years will get you like... 3 sigma or more.
“Zerohedge” much?
I never trusted raptors. Everybody who has watched any part of the Jurassic Park franchise should know, they screw you over and eat you alive.
Had a superstition to not buy 13600k because "13" is ill luck.
Curse my rationality
I bought a 13600k for my new (first) build. I enabled the intel default profile and it has a massive cooler (idles at 35c). I'm praying that my i5 will last. If not, I can't waste time switching out the mobo. I'll just get a 12700k.
Nice fast paced video with all the details and quick jabs. Well done.
This video validated my experience with my 14900k for the last year... ive had every single one of these problems and have had to underclock using extreme tuning utility to not bluescreen constantly. Im so mad i didnt just stick to amd
same here. it’s so not fun building high end PC and ending up with crashes in games😂
Rumors say that 14 gen is just 13 rebranding
RMA
Happy to use amd
I'm not (I have a laptop)
butthurt intool fans replying to you are crying so hard lmao
@@aurelia8028 gaintel
First time ever to use an amd for me was at the beginning of the handheld pc era and I must say I'm really impressed! Took it a step further and decided to try one of those pre-built AMD eGPUs and again it hasn't disappointed at all! Watch out Intel!
Same
I think they know very well whats wrong. But they just dont want to admit it publicly.
Admitting it publicly, means admitting fault, and admitting fault means admitting liability for a massive class action lawsuit, and and admitting liability means line go down and line goes down means no extra billions.
@@futuza Okay, the way you summarized that in such a high-level overview had me laughing hysterically😄👌
@@futuza they just got their extra billions from the government.
"Diversity, equity, and inclusion have long been Intel’s core values and are instrumental to driving innovation and delivering strong business growth."
I mean they say it right on their website
@@jarwarrenthat has as much to do with Intel’s chip failures as a clone of Elon Musk…
I think they know very well whats wrong. But they just dont want to admit it publicly.
Probably something that simply cannot be fixed with software. Something that no matter how hard you tune will eventually surface.
Moores law is dead said from his sources that the problem could be with cache degrading because it wasnt made for that many cores also that guys from Intel were proud of them designing the chip to launch in 11 months.
@@Navhkrin Since underclocking the CPU seems to fix the issue in big part I guess they can actually fix it, but the fix will decrease the performance. It's similar story to several vulnerabilities found in Intel and AMD CPUs related to Hyper Threading - you can make them safer by disabling it, but performance decreases.
In case of those vulnerabilities, it was done mostly by server admins, who need it for security reasons, while others just usually accept the risk or have no idea about it. I think this is what they are working on - how to apply the patch for those, who need it, while not decreasing the performance for those, whose usage pattern won't trigger the error
🤖
@@qj0n That is just a bandage not fixing the root problem
Got a 13th gen chip this past year. Been in contact with Intel for months with these exact problems, specifically issues at X referenced memory. Intel has been "clueless" about this issue when discussing with me and won't cover the warranty replacement or refund. Have had more help on random intel forum posts and reddit from other people who have these issues. Finally, I have been able to get a SOMEWHAT stable fix when underclocking the voltage, but still super disappointing.
That's what happens when you just keep dumping more and more power into them instead of making actual architecture improvements, just to claim the highest clock speeds. Doesn't matter how high the clock speeds are if the chip burns out and doesn't work, you get no clock speed.
new reports suggest this isn't because of power.
Their at the very limit of what architecture improvements they can implement.
Problem with Intel is they refuse to spend a dime on improving how much cache their stuff has.
Intel machines could be lightspeeds faster if they simply added more cache to their chips.
New intel architecture will sacrifice rest of the chip until only the clock is left.
@@honkhonk8009
Cache size depends directly on transistor density, and this depends directly on manufacturing technology. As Extreme Ultraviolet Litography is reaching its limits, improvements in manufacturing have become ridiculously costly.
Intel produces it's own chips, while AMD uses services of TSMC. TSMC benefits from industry wide funding (for example, they also make Apple chips).
I don't think Intel "refuses to spend a dime on improving how much cache their stuff has", it's just insanely costly.
3:41 Should've called it the Core report, smh
I've never been upset about choosing AMD every single time.
Phenom? FX series? LLano and any other APUs? Sempron? And don't even get me started on Single Core/Thread performance. Sure, you might have 256 thousand cores, but that doesn't mean much when 99% of software can fully utilize four of them. Want to play the milsim ARMA 3? Better not have an AMD.
@@TheeGlocktopus Never had one regret. Owned every single one. Guess what didn't ever have Meltdown?
Uh you know what , Arma likes cache. You know what lots of cache is in? X3D.
Even crappy optimised games like star citizen runs faster with that cache.
At one point this kind of issue could have easily been an AMD thing, it's better to swing with the pendulum instead of being loyal to the soil.
@@TheeGlocktopus Did you just wake up from some sort of experimental cryosleep program?You're about a decade behind in your Anti-AMD trash talking. Intel chips usually have way more cores than AMD chips nowadays on account of them tacking on 6-8 "efficiency" cores to everything. Hence we get "14" core i5s that perform like an AMD 6-8 core cpu but will win in multithread benchmarks that use the extra "efficiency" cores.
You're also behind on the notion that only 4 cores get used. Alot of AAA games in recent years really suffer or won't even run properly on anything less than 6 physical cores.
You're supposed to be complaining about AMD cpu firmware having bugs at launch or Zen 2 processors being in the Zen 3 lineup, or something like that.
I have an I5 14500k. I thought it was just me who had this problem: my PC would crash randomly and blue screen. My browser would crash some tabs and say that I didn't have enough memory. I reinstalled Windows, and the issue persisted. This video explains a lot!
You switching to amd cpu from now on?
@@gildg7806 I thought about that, but the problem is that it would be too expensive. Switching to my current CPU cost me ~ $500$ because I needed a new motherboard.
@@gildg7806 we are going to witness AMD become the new villain in the CPU market. I am sure they are going to increase their price tag because the completion will likely die for a while due to Intel's idiocy.
Putting the image of boogie as "end user" is nicely done.
LMAO anyone remember that intel snake oil chart it keeps aging like the finest of milk
No?
@@user-S853 search for “Gamer nexus intel snake oil”
@@user-S853 Look up their "core rules" presentation to business partners.
@@user-S853 Search for the intel "core truths" slide deck
Holy shit yea that was INSANE. The fact that even got approved, and went through the upper management who thought "yea, this looks sane, lets put this out PUBLICLY" is bonkers. Gamers nexus ripped them a new one :D
Like holy fuck, that is really what helped with my next cpu being amd...
Thank GOD I went with a 7800X3D instead of a i7-14700K in my recent PC replacement.
Wait. Isn't AMD an American company too ? Driven by the same moral values as intel and boeing ? That is greed, and more greed ? It's only a matter of time before similar issues happen at AMD (outsource anything and everything to india and wherever, don't raise employees salaries, raise top management's salaries to silly amounts, cut costs on innovation, etc...). Our hope is that the Koreans/Taiwanese/Japanese take over this industry.
@@johnsmith-ro2twZen 5 will be a real wake up call for a lot of people.
It's obvious AMD is positioning itself to announce some insane MSRP's with Ryzen 9000 series.
@@johnsmith-ro2tw AMD is a Taiwanese company
@@axiilh No, it's not. AMD is an American company. TSMC, the company that fabricates chips for AMD (including RDNA GPUs), is Taiwanese.
weren't 7800X3Ds literally exploding a year ago?
I had a problem with Vbox and VMware where enabling 3d accerleration would lead in a 99% chance of the guest system crashing. I thought this was some kind of NVidia problem but no, probably my 13th gen intel core i7 processor.
Insane that I a comment about this, literally like 20 minutes ago I had to turn off the 3D accel because Ubuntu wouldn't start after upgrading from 22 to 24 LTS. 13700KF too, guess we're all fkd
Amd was known for their chips burning about a decade ago and fixed the issue and left intel in the dust. the only people that still use intel should be large businesses that refuse to change and still use massively outdated intel chips. Amd outpreforms at every metric and has for a long time, including cost
Meanwhile, I'm here chilling with my 3rd-generation Intel processor.
im chilling with my i5 10th gen
first gen here
So around a year ago my coworker was building a new machine and it keep crashing and that thing uses a i9 13900K. He sacked the CPU over to me last February and I couldn’t figure out why it was crashing randomly eithe. I ended up contacting intel support to see if I can RMA the thing, but then told me to turn on Intel Fail safe mode in the BIOS, which then stopped those crashes. That was back just back in May. I mean, I got a free CPU, so I shouldn’t be complaining, but I can’t believe this shit is only being discovered now. I legitimately thought this i9 I have was just a faulty one off
i honestly dont understand and dont have any intention on being understood, if they havent done i wait
all i comperhend is whether the machines can be used and has proper performance and stability for usages
DAMN. The 7800X3D was a good call on my part.
i like am5, its amd finally compete at highend gaming
they usually only competitive against i5s but these 7000 series are champs and arguably winning if its watt/perf
@@iikatinggangsengii2471Also usually winning in fps for most titles that use v cache
I got the 7600X for my build since I was on a budget but I will be waiting patiently for the 9000 series and its X3D proposition
Best CPU
Dancing on rock is a great description, dancing on wasted sand would be more accurate.
I am so very, very, glad that I went with 12th gen Intel. I bought my laptop 6 months before 13th gen came out. Having "new" CPUs coming in 6 months was a concern of mine but I went with the model I chose. Phew, that was close.
14900k here, disabling C-States and using the extreme settings helped me get rid of the crashes, but will not allow you to use Visual Studio. It will crash(the software) on launch. Finally got the 11c bios update for a Gigabyte Gaming X AX mobo and loaded intel's extreme settings which seems pretty stable at this moment - also allows me to use VS again. I think the PC froze once or twice when playing around with an Azure agent.
Just had my first BSOD yesterday while making a RAR file. Confirmed that making a RAR file tanked my 14900k, but Cinebench was fine. After updating BIOS with the new Intel mitigations it's working for now.
This literally happened to me 2 months ago. Had a i9-13900KF shut down, bsod, gpu error, screens turn off all randomly degrading over time until I RMA'd the thing, had it replaced with a i9-14900KF and literally had the same issue and had to be replaced by yet another 14900KF.
Buy yet another one, it must be a fluke.
If it fails again you should replace it with 14900KF again, who knows maybe this time it'll work
If there is a trade in program in the computer stores near you, you could use it to sell your Intel motherboard and parts and trade it with AMD Ryzen processor and motherboard at much cheaper additional price
i5-13500 here. so far, no issues at all. fingers crossed i was lucky enough to get the good one. Also, i never play games.
I3 8100 here, since 2018 without issues.
Lol just noticed this while playing valorant on an i9-13900k. Had this video on the second display. Facepalm...
I've crashed twice in two days. Its been right after launching valorant and as soon as I load into the game the first time. When I reconnect after the reboot there isn't an issue. Got a 24hr ban for it hahahahah.
Underclock and undervolt it
Underclock and undervolt doesn't solve it. Heck some say the opposite might be needed. This is a complex issue and it seems like all of these CPUs will deteriorate at some point. I would consider returning it if possible.
@@berkertaskirannah just buy new one when it breaks
nah that's just valorant
So glad I went with a 12400F, no problems, from a 4790K. 12th gen works just as well to me for what I need it for. Bonus was migrating from DDR3 1866, SATA 3 SSD over to DDR5 6000 and NVme M.2 SSD. Kept the same GTX 1080ti, with aftermarket Morpheus cooler. Maybe I will get another run for many years out of this, like the last setup.
I had to limit the wattage on my 14900KF to far below what my cooler is supposed capable of handling, or it would just crash on any task that put the CPU usage near 100% (if temps went into the 75C to 90C range).
As an example: I use Linux with proprietary Nvidia drivers, so when I update, the Nvidia kernel modules need to be compiled, which is a very CPU intensive task. I got into a situation with my 14900KF where it would immediately start throwing MCE hardware errors during compilation before kernel panicking in the middle of the update, which is a pretty big problem because it leaves you with a broken installation and a broken package manager which all needs to be manually cleaned up. This was not an intermittent problem, this was happening EVERY SINGLE TIME I tried to update. I couldn't get my install working again until I lied to the BIOS and told it that I was using the stock Intel box cooler so that it would limit the power usage as much as possible.
0:06 Intel's Ticking Bomb Inside!
As someone who recently bought a Ryzen laptop, I feel like a dodged a goddamn bullet lol.
You didn't wait for Strix Point?
You know everyone was using intel to avoid this instability issue that was present on ryzens? 😅 Just google "is intel more stable than amd" and look at stuff from few years ago.
@@aurelia8028 AMD is top dog
loving my AMD handheld. It's been over a year with no major issues.
i just bought a laptop with an i5-1340p but i think only the higher core count chips are having issues
Has someone noted how Linus has been strangely silent about this problem and the situation that developers for windows arm are facing?
🤔
I did not noticed as I dont watch this crap from longer time :). Initially I watched but had very bad opinion about this channel. You can notice right away it is not about reliable information or ethical but more "show" and "hype". He does not mention probably because she would make harm with "sponsors" (but as I does not watch it from longer time i can be wrong of course :) ).
Ps. There was also other controversies with Linus later after i already dropped watching this channel.
The Linus Tech Tips channel is mostly an entertainment channel now. They don't really ever do dedicated deep dives or videos about news. At most you get a TechLinked video with a 2 minute segment on it.
Maybe because the core issue is still under investigation.
So that's why the main channel still hasn't covered this news. But Techlinked has certainly covered it a while ago.
They don't want to rush to make a video about this thing currently. They learned their lesson of making rushed videos.
LTT really has nothing to add to the conversation here. It would make a very boring and unsatisfying video with no conclusion. Bascially only repeating information from other sources. This is not what LTT usually does on the main channel. Something like "The Most UNRELIABLE Gaming PC" would be a more LTTish way of covering a topic like that. But not as long as the story is still evolving.
Since I built my first PC at the end of the last year, I had instability issues with my 14th gen, and it was sad. I read dozens of posts online, videos, even reassembled the whole cpu cooler thinking I had applied thermal paste wrong... I can add that I got it stable by running at default settings with latest BIOS AND (important) disabling XMP1, so I have to run my 128 GB RAM at 4k MT/s instead of 5.6k MT/s. I even stopped sending games crash reports because I assumed it was on my end so not to confuse the developers. So it's relieving to see this video.
switched from intel to amd for the first in 15 years, rocking a 7800x3d and its doing fantastic for over a year now with a pretty heavy memmory overclock and infinity fabric OC..
the reason why i dont chose Intel is that, when i touch the laptops at the supermarket, the ones running on Intel are always super warm (when room température is 20°C)
ça devient du fromage fondu
The cheese melts in the microwave, Intel chips melt Inside™
I7-1355u here in a slim HP laptop, all good, not toasty, no crash, weeks of uptimes.
@@dtibor5903 thats all very nice but what are you using it for? If ur just web browsing and using office that doesnt tell us anything besides the fact that it itsnt complete rubbish
Laptops at a supermarket is the first problem...
I'm glad I'm still running an i7-7700K. I can still play all my games at the highest settings. Windows 11 doesn't officially support it but it runs fine, so I've gotten about 7 years out of this CPU so far. I'm hoping to get at least a decade before I even consider upgrading.
well guess what my 10th gen intel is more stable than the 13th gen intel
my i7 4770 from 2014 is more stable
That's what happens when you do 100% vertical and horizontal manufacturing integration.
Intel was stuck on 22nm node for years before it was able to shine it with "difficulties". Now we know the difficulties are there because they do not have tech to do smaller nodes very efficiently and make flawless chips.
Jim keller left or was forced to leave within months because of this, for those who don't know him, he's a vetern in chip designer who has contributed to almost all companies who designs modern processors so most of us are using his derivative works one way or another.
AMD switched to Samsung and TSMC until global foundries did catch up and there are still few more years before AMD will switch back or start making other chips with their good old friend.
In my experience of hardwares, recent hardware have failed alot more than old ones so it's common to question quality of what we are getting for what we are paying. The per clock performance is almost stagnant since a decade now and more squeeze is happening in pipelines and lookup and retiring logic these days. Intel is known to be notorious, for example MKL was defacto supressing performance on non intel chips, which is now outperformed by other BLAS implementations working even faster on Intel chips and AMD chips as well. The company has alot of shady past, this is great example of how monopolies can not stay forever if they are overconfident. AMD was 4B company a decade ago, look at them how they evolved with good leadership and strategic research with limited budgets and market share while competing against 4 major companies ( Intel, Qualcomm, nVidia ) and many other smaller companies in mobile, server, desktop, GPU and telecom sectors.
3:17 You literally took the words out of my mind. I'm running a 12700k and I'm so glad to not have went for 13th or 14th gen.
Will be moving to AM5 and 7800x3D
To me this is just an indication of the following:
When buying a new CPU or hardware in general always, ALWAYS worry about the temperatures you are getting. Test the heck out of it when you buy it.
With my I7 14700K that I recently bought I smelled something fishy when I did stress test benchmarks and it was pushed over 100 degrees C consistently on those on a Dark Rock Pro 5.
Thankfully it never really reaches those temperatures in my actual usage, even with high end gaming.
My understanding of the issue is that Intel's 12th gen processors were fairly good, but in order to get 13th/14th gen (they're basically the same gen, fight me) to market, they had to rush the architecture design, and they rapidly adapted 12th gen into a new architecture by adding more little cores and cache, but in rapidly adapting 12th gen into something it wasn't quite meant to be, they introduced the issues.
I'm pretty sure future architectures won't have the issue, as they're ground up redesigns, but I'm also not sure enough to recommend my friends anything other than AMD until I've seen next gen intel chips lasting for more than two years.
If this were the case, Intel would quickly solve the existing problems, everything would be as transparent as possible, and silence most likely indicates that: either a deep quality check is being carried out, and I think that's why Intel is postponing the release of new products (maybe I don't know something, and that's just my guess), or a very expensive solution is required to cover the cost of marriage, which will radically change the approach to production technology
you mean the 12th gen that finaly can catch up to ryzen 5000 when 10th and 11th gen failed ?
dont be foolish, every Ryzen 5000 CPU is better then a intel 12th gen for sure and upgrade path of a 12th gen to 13/14 is something nobody want to risk even on a used market in a year.
@@allxtend4005 In this context I meant "good" as in terms of reliability as it related to the specific issue in the video.
Generally I've preferred Ryzen processors overall for every generation they've released as it always felt that they offered better value for what I wanted at the time, but it's not as though Intel chips haven't had reasons to buy them, as well.
It's more a matter of what tradeoffs you're willing to accept, what you need out of your processor, and if you do custom workloads to the metal that can take full advantage of all the features available which you're paying for when buying the processor.
This isn't an architecture issue but a silicon level issue that has to do with process node and generation of the internal transistors.
On a i9-12900T I had repeatable crashes. My solution was deactivating all efficiency cores.
I've been dealing with these issues since October last year, this sh*t started well before February 🙄
1:39 your voice sounded like a real human, noticed for the first time
This part sounds AI generated
this was actually the only real audio clip
I needed a tldr of what's happening to raptor lake and this got recommended lol. Perfect balance of memes and info. Ty bro!
Its sad that Intel wouldnt admit to their mistake, so the motherboard companies had to do Intel's work
Don't forget that the same MOBO companies increased voltages above and beyond for Intel processors to achieve higher performance than their competitors. Due to such high voltages and temperatures, intel cpus were prone to failure, thus why mobo companies started releasing the "baseline" profile that followed intels standard set voltages and frequencies, and the range of performance loss was between 10 to 15% when you set it to that profile.
Pro tip dont overclock ur cpu
Really glad right now that I decided to buy an Intel Core i9 14900K
The 14900K has issues too.
@@synen That is called sarcasm. It was the whole point of the joke.
You might be able to prevent or delay issues by making some changes in the bios if you're willing to experiment. My 13900k has been stable for over a year. I did however change some settings in my (gigabyte) bios the moment I got the chip.. In case you are interested: limited the wattage to intel recommended, disabled all gigabyte overclock settings, set the ac/dc loadline preset to medium (which slightly increases the base voltage iirc), undervolted the chip when under heavy loads using the vf points. (-100mv when all p cores are at 5.5-5.8ghz, -0.8~ at 5.4, -0.6 at 5.3 etc). I also reduced the SA voltage to 1.2v from the mobo default 1.28v. These settings have left me with a perfectly stable chip so far and no performance loss in benchmark. My ram is running at 7200mts with tuned timings using buildzoid recommendations and some experimenting myself.
You'll eventually get a refund, hopefully some compensation even. Good luck to you 🤞🏼
So glad I went all amd this time, no melting power connectors, no unstable chips with glaring design flaws. Also was much cheaper while being only 10 percent behind
After the mitigations that hurt performance, AMD isn't even behind anymore. If you've got a 7800x3D, you've got the fastest gaming CPU on the market.
Never thought I'd see a warframe mention on this channel
Update 8/4/24: It’s much worse than originally led to believe
Your approach to trading is truly impressive. Thank you for teaching me so much!
There is no way this is JUST breaking news. There are so many people within the gaming community that have been saying this for literally years. In fact, it's been a common fix for years too to just underclock these chips. The crash occurs for basically any DX12 games, most often in UE5 games due to their use of the newer technologies.
The new issues are not just gaming, include data corruption, memory data integrity issues and Intel CPU servers crashes...
Some people get the CPU working with underclocking it, but there are some units with really huge degradation that have errors in any clock and voltage.
But mainly top of the line 13th and 14th Gen, in the video of level 1 techs, He shows data that shows that 12th gen looks fine (slightly higher failure than AMD on servers and some games, but nothing unusual)
@@lefthornet Also important to note is that not all errors cause crashes, most probably go unnoticed. The data Wendel provides also slightly under reports game errors since the telemetry cannot report hard crashes like BSODs.
The server data is harrowing. 50% will have stability-related errors, 10-15% are so bad they need to be replaced. It's gotten so bad a three-year support package for the 13/14 gen i9 CPUs cost around 1000 dollars more than equivalent AMD systems (over 100 vs over 1000).
I mean there were signs before but it's only recently groups have come forward with some cold hard data proving that the issue is real which I think that is news worthy.
I think it was also really hard to achieve a 100% rate failuire. Well done Intel!
Tricking rocks into thinking for us was a mistake.
Nah, it was a triumph.
I bought my I7-13700K Q4/2022. Was stable for 9 months. Then very random CTD crashes started during playing Crusaders Kings 3 (but nowhere else) approx once per one hour. And it's been getting worse ever since. A month ago, other games started crashing as well. Just random CTD, not BSOD.
The solution I found after changin almost all components, reinstall system few times to another drive - was to disable turbo mode and lower the CPU voltages. That's about 40% performance loss. The question was for how long. Because obviously the silicon in this CPU degrades over time much faster than we were used to before.
Hopefully a permanent solution cost me just 1400USD.
Asrock X670E Taichi + Ryzen 7800X3D + Water cooling + 64GB DDR5 RAM.
I've had this problem since New Year's when I set up my new PC. Initially, I thought I had set it up incorrectly. However, after updating the BIOS a month ago, my i9-14900K system has been running faster and hasn't crashed since.
@alaskandonut yeap
@alaskandonut From what I've seen so far, the more budget oriented chips aren't affected. Or at least, they appear WAY less susceptible to this problem. Might be because they target more modest boost frequencies, which means the peak voltages are also way lower.
Only a matter of time.
holly sh*t, that SSD and ram corruption is actually vey serious. gonna have to regularly be making sure all my backup scripts have completed successfully just in case my ssd's get corrupted.
Switch to AMD if you can.
Felt there was something wrong with Intel's approach since the introduction of their 12th gen. They just couldn't keep up with AMD and had to "invent" something special and overclock their silicon like there is no tomorrow. Very glad i went with AMD this time. BTW my i7 4790K is still running daily (undervolted.)
Are the laptop cpus affected too?
Yes, but it probably won't get to that because the CPU don't get as much boost as the desktop variant.
@8ith. maybe the h versions don't but hx? 🤔 those probably have problems
THANK YOU FOR BRINGING BACK PHILOSORAPTOR I'VE MISSED THIS GEM OF A MEME SO MUCH
I used to buy hardware just because "Number Bigger" it has been over a decade since whenever I am almost about to convince myself I need a new rig, something dissuades me.
Thanks for kicking my next upgrade another couple of years further.
I have no problem buying second hand AMD parts and selling my old.
Thanks to AM4, i can kick my rig upgrade further until my mobo gives up. :D
(im waiting for my friend to upgrade his GPU, 6800XT for under 200€ is a long kick)
Yeah, all you need is a number that's big enough.
Honestly the newest machine I have is 5 years old and my newest laptop is 6 years old and the laptop I am typing this on is an 2011 Dell E-Series Latitude which works fine with Linux.
Yeah, it’s funny that CPUs got up to about 3GHz about 20 years ago, and since then it just feels like slow walking in more cache and cores. Very impressive gains after 20 years, but harder to notice year over year.
@@henryfleischer404 actually just a 3 behind Half-Life would be enough but... you know.
Gone are the days when Intel exclusively released processors on various sockets with only 4 cores and at increasingly higher prices😁
I'm planning a gaming PC and was choosing between a Ryzen 7600X and 13600KF. Think I know what to do now.
Funny, when raptor lake was first shown off one of the primary pr pushes was insisting that constantly sitting at near boiling temperatures was actually just fine for the cpu and the silicon could handle it!
@@The13thRonin 2 weeks ago we didn't know that
Reminds me of the same BS but with Spectre/Meltdown to sell more cpus of ''competing'' company. Yet we didn't hear anyone being hacked because of it and I've not heard anyone crashing on these cpus. I own 13700k working at 5.6 ghz at 1.25v with 7000 mhz ram and its been rock solid working 24/7 for 2nd year now, no crashes. Idle cpu usage is around 2-5 watts and under load its 20-55 wats on average in games and its been decoding into av1 format for few months now 24/7, 0 issues.
I immediately went check which generation my chip is. 10th gen. Being broke saved me this time 🤣
100% unit 8200 backdoored
Don't forget about Talpiot
As someone who upgraded my AMD 3600 cpu to a 13900k and I work in 3D applications, I regret upgrading. I have to underclock my 13900k at 3ghz to make it remotely stable to run blender...
You should RMA it if it's so bad.
Dude 3Ghz is way too low. I would be more concerned with the power consumption and cooling for the processor. Maybe check how much power your cpu is consuming at peak. Many new bios have set limits to power limits. Try to limit the power consumption to 150-200 watts and maybe 4-4.5Ghz shouldn't be a problem. I mean if your work is doable with 3Ghz then good for you.
with my 13900k i haven't had any issues with blender
@@ydfhlx5923 to get another broken CPU... at this point I will wait this out, as long warranty is still there.
Can still ask for RMA after 2 years and 11 months.
Getting the same broken CPU back again is no solution.
1:24 the "computer" in the stock footage is actually a air purifier lol
This explains so much; my 13th gen CPU computer now crashes while trying to reinstall windows, and I gave up trying to figure out what was wrong with it last week. 😞
Intel annual net income for 2023 was $1.689B, so who cares? Main goal of a company is to make profits not chips.
Are the shareholders happy? its all that matters...
Look at the stock price over the last 5 years, and look at nvidia over the last 5 years - the shareholders are NOT happy
They won't be happy when they get sued
shareholders know consumers are the bottom line... consumers stop trusting a company, they lose market share or go bankrupt. seems hard to imagine for Intel but losing market share is a serious concern especially with the rise of ARM chips everywhere.
@@gorak9000 "In the fourth quarter, the company generated $4.6 billion in cash from operations and paid dividends of $0.5 billion." they might not be as happy an nvidia, but they are wayy more happy than customers...
(and in reality nvidia shareholders are also intel shareholders)
@@Trundle0417 Ohhhh remember Facebook, Apple, Google? all those companies got sued and nothing happens...