The mysterious Midland engine they hid from the public - Paget Locomotive
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- In today's video, we take a look at the locomotive the Midland Railway didn't want you to know about
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80mph with outside cranks? Pfffh ok buddy
But City of Truro! :p
@@chalichaligha3234didn’t go 100 in 1904.
@@terrier_productions , Certainly reached the 90's though
@@chalichaligha3234allegedly.
I have an Idea. Alternative history. Imagine, locomotive classes that had poor design choices, but people actually fixed those design flaws.
Why would they want to keep it a secret? Because if other companies found out about the design, they could've made a better engine out of it and ran it on lines competing with the Midland?
A company doesnt want competition, thats the entire premise of competition
That happens a lot where competing companies keep innovations a secret until everyone has independantly developed them, wasting resources on leading the market for a few years.
They probably figured it would take enough work that patenting the details required perfecting it first, and later covered it up due to shame when it failed.
well they shouldnt have scrapped it
I love these sorts of mystery locos that have virtually no information or photos of them. They're usually bizarre experiments kept secret from the public.
Perhaps this is one locomotive that could benefit from modern construction practices and materials, such as some of the improvements the P2 Locomotive Trust is making to "Prince of Wales" over the original Gresley design.
A variant with a clutch might be ideal for excursions in North America, as hammer-blow is a major concern.
My take on it, if the prototype was running as efficiently as most engines then could it have performed better with refinement? It’s primary failure sounds like human error not mechanical. Curious where this could’ve gone if it had received serious consideration.
On most other railways at that time this loco, which showed great promise, would not have been discarded as quickly but it must be considered in the light of of the toxic atmosphere that pervaded Derby at this time... The Midland was a large railway that thought small! This is the company whose Chief Draughtsman, Anderson, seemed to hold the theory that steam locomotives actually did not need bearings and Anderson held the locomotive department in a strangle hold and it was his refusal to allow Richard Deeley's 4-6-0's to be built that caused Deeley to resign at about this time! He was replaced by Henry Fowler, an affable man who freely admitted that he didn't know how loco valve gear actually worked!
Small wonder that Paget's fantastic loco was treated in the way that it was... It was a big powerful loco in the hands of a company that clung to a disastrous "Small Engine Policy”!
Good, well balanced video, I look forward to seeing more of your work.
The man who invented the LMS 3F Jinty didn't understand how valve gear worked?!
I guess it goes to show that good designers sometimes don't even understand their own work!
@@Dat-Mudkip
It's a widely held fallacy that Locomotive Superintendents/CME's carry out the detailed design work on the locomotives that bear their names... Most don't, they have far more pressing responsibilities, The Locomotive Superintendent tells others what he wants designed and they produce the detailed drawings. The ultimate responsibility being carried by the Chief Draughtsman in the works drawing office; the big companies normally had a very good Chief Draughtsman unfortunately the Midland Railway (and later the LMS) didn't - they had Anderson!
Sir Henry Fowler was a supurb Production Engineer, and a very good man to work for. As for his lack of understanding of valve gear: when the details of the supurb LMS 2-6-4T were being worked out the design team hit a snag with the valve gear and one of the draughtsmen took the drawing in question to show Sir Henry and ask his advice. Fowler glanced at the drawing, gave the man a kindly smile and said. "There's really no point in showing that to me, I've no idea how it works."
Sorry to disillusion you. Sir Henry Fowler was responsible for the design of the 3F Jinty but the detailed design work was done by others. Fowler said what he wanted and the Drawing Office team reworked the drawings of the twenty-plus year old Johnson 3F 0-6-0T to produce the Jinty that bears his name.
@@kenattwood8060 Informative. Thanks!
I've always had a deep almost pathological loathing for the Midland. They not only borked up their own railway, but the dominance of Midland practices (and how utterly errible they were) infected the LMS (largely thanks to a large proportion of LNWR men dying in the 1st World War. I wonder how the Midland avoided that fate...), cursing a number of otherwise useful LMS designs, and continued loyalty to the Midland caused the Great Central to be chosen for closure in the 1960s, shutting down one of the most modern, well built, high speed lines in the country. We had HS2 already, it was built in 1899! But thanks Midland, you were still screwing things up even 50 years after you ceased to be a thing. -_-
@@Dat-Mudkip Fowler was only a face at the top, his draughtsmen designed the loco to a basic spec that might have had a cursory glance over before signing off.
thinking of that little praire flying along at over 80MPH! I'm tempted to make a model.
I now want to see a two stroke engine converted to steam power
Same tbh.
steampunk motorcycle
It looks like a locomotive mixed with Hurricane and James from ttte and this is truly the fail of combining to engines together and it looks like a Atlantic Firebox but bigger and a A3 boiler but shorter and fatter so what a combination this engine was to create.... Damn...
What drama!!😮 Thanks for bringing us these completely obscure railway/railroad stories!!
Loving the videos
Truely one of the embarissments of all time
...your spelling is worse...
@@jimihendrix991 thanks
The swiss paddlesteamer "Stadt Luzern" runs with uniflow steam engine since 100years. It is somwhat more efficient than its fleetmates
Very interesting!
Interesting concept!
A Detroit or EMD type uniflow two stroke diesel engine could be converted, only the function of intake ports and exhaust valves need to be swapped, in steam operation you would use the exhaust valves of the engine as intake valves and fit a kind of VTEC to the cam shaft, maybe making the shaft moving up and down so that the duration of valve lift can be managed, also VVT to enable the engine to turn in both directions.
What used to be the intake ports at the bottom end of the cylinders in diesel mode would now become the exhaust.
I assume that the poppet valve design would generate much less friction than the sleeve valve design used by Paget.
Having much of the moving parts in an enclosed crank case would be a consideration, as a pro there is much less oil loss and ingress of dirt as everything is lubricated in an enclosed loop, but the cylinders would probably still need steam oil and water getting into the crank case oil would be a major issue so you need a sludge forming resistent oil and a water separator.
A 3, 4 or 6V71 Detroit would be an ideal starting point to experiment with, maybe an idea for a channel I recently found, Mackwell of NZ working on a modern version of the steam engine? Their boiler at least has some resemblance with the Paget boiler, but as a water tube instead of a fire tube boiler, but with the insulated firebox and combustion chamber to enable biomass like wood or bagasse to be fired more efficiently, it also uses secondary air inlets for this purpose.
Poppet valves were tried by Gresley and BR, on and off.
Keep up the good work :)
I just love steam trains❤🚂🌟👍Love your channel
If we are talking about weird piston locomotives - you might take a look at henschel v8 locomotive :)
It's one thicc boi
1:18 looks like a drawing I’ll make when I was five
Using a Secret Room track from Pizza tower as background music in a Mystery themed video is just genius.
I thought this breakdown would be made ages later wow this brought irony and a nice surprise! The padget loco was HORRIBLE though, like who uses a 8 piston loco
It's very odd looking.
Thanks mate, cheers
Didn't Bullied's '\Leader' also employ sleeve valve engines? The Pagett engine sound as though it worked a lot more successfully than Leader did, which makes its demise a shame. Thanks for this film, as its the first really good description of the engine I've come across.
Talking of cover ups, how about the legendary Dean 4-2-4 express side tank engine which 'never was'?
Dealt probably just didn’t want to give Paget the glory and publicity if people liked it. On the flip side, if it caused a big incident, you wouldn’t want the Midland railway getting bad press. So a coverup is understandable.
Sounds like the bloke was one of those children who had potential with their ideas but lacked the experience to rectify issues that may have been foreseeable before building the locomotive.
@TrainFactGuy
I don’t know if you’ll see this but I’ve got an undocumented train story lost to time. In 1969, John Wayne and Glenn Campbell came to Laramie Wyoming via Union Pacific. The train arrived the same day as another group of people were performing dressed up as Natives, as One of the members of said group was an uncle of mine. When Wayne arrived, he was very drunk and belligerent, and when he walked off to the platform where this group was standing he stepped hard on my uncle’s foot, so hard in fact his foot broke. Nothing ever came of this, and Wayne and Campbell continued traversing the town as normal. No harsh words were given.
Great content as always 👏
''eyyoo this loco got no juice YEEEET!!'' - Midland Railway probably
Sounds like if they hadn't chosen the wrong combination of materials for the cylinders and sleeves, it might have actually worked well.
What.
How.
I was thinking about this the other day and I thought
"I bet the next train of thought video will be the Paget locomotive"
So basically, this was the LMS’ version of the Hush Hush.
That would be "Fury"
I hear the Pizzascape Secret theme in the background! ❤
The liner wasn't bronze, it was iron, so was the rotating valve. You are perpetuating the myth. The drawings show the only part of dissimilar material was a sprung sealing strip made of gunmetal. Almost everything known about this loco is hearsay.
Off context question. Being that the purpose of the SR Leader was to include as many Labour saving devices as possible to get the operating cost of a stream train to match or beat Electric and Diesel counterparts, why in gods name did it not have a Mechanical stoker? That would eliminate the fireman and so the communication corridor, allowing a larger fire box & boiler and larger water tank & coal bunker, and it would bring the centre of weight over the centerline of the locomotive.
Next vid should be the Pennsylvania Railroad Class S2, a direct drive steam turbine locomotive
How bulky
Can you do a video on the Sierra Railway 3 aka the movie star locomotive?
A 15 year long secret now told.
I love your videos
Good video like
Everyone knows that this guy uses music to fit the topic of the video. And the fact that he used Secret Room music from Pizza Tower is just genius!!
Nice using some pizza tower music, best sound track I’ve heard since undertale
🤔😊👍
I have a question, but it isn't about the Paget. Are the two tanks on a tank engine connected? (For engines that don't have a saddle tank) So if the tank engine is COMPLETLY out of water, if I only pour water into the left side, will the right side begin to fill up? Or do I have to fill the left, then the right
Yes side tank locos have a balance pipe. Some coal bunkers also have a water space underneath - also with a balance pipe.
It sounds like the main reason for the Paget locomotive's failure was a poor choice in materials.
Does anyone here also think that we could unlock its full potential with today's technology?
The Steam Engine Has A Cool Design
Huh, maybe Henry's origins aren't so farfetched after all.
And now we can make models of the engine that run EXTREMELY BETTER 😂💀
That locomotive looks AI generated
This is why city of truo is made
wait 1912? Thats the time titanic sunk
80mph ? Slowwww my car could go 420mph
Faulty cylinders
its "See-sill". not "sess-ill"
In Britain, it's "Sess-il"
corporate nepotism, there was never any other example in railway history, ever....
Pizza Tower music.
:)
just stick to tired and tested engines
Might as well have been the slogan of the frankly useless Midland Railway.
"We need bigger locos to handle the heavier trains we're getting"
"Nah, just build more 0-6-0s and 4-4-0s. That'll do it"
"Tired" and tested is definitely true!
Wow... That is one ugly steam engine. Ugly British steam engines are rare, but this one just looked fat. I'd call it a galloping sausage but it wasn't really "galloping" anywhere.
What.
How.
I was thinking about this the other day and I thought
"I bet the next train of thought video will be the Paget locomotive"