I never was a Christian, and have been atheist for over 50 years. Mom dragged us kids into church when we were all pretty young, kicking and screaming, and I just never believed it. For me, God and Jesus went straight out the window right alongside Santa and the bunny, and I've never looked back. #ReligionIsFiction
@@travislee1658 I believe that there is some sort of difference between the religious and the spiritual. Religion is a human invention that was made up within the last 10,000 years, and homo sapiens has been around for about 250,000 years. That's why I don't believe in fictional characters such as God and Satan. Heaven and Hell are fictional places. But I do believe in spirits that can be observed, such as Life and Death. All of us have the same human body, and yet our personalities are unique from each others'. We also observe that in our pets. Our real lives are submerged while we sleep, and Life goes away when we die. It is only speculation, but I believe that wherever it was before we were born, thats where we return to when we die.
Happy for you. I’ve been indoctrinated to the core for decades, and just started questioning everything and realizing it’s all a control mechanism based on lies. It’s amazing what a grip it gets on you.
It's interesting to see someone deconvert at that age. Did your opinions on social issues change as well? A former family friend of ours headed the opposite direction. He never talked about god, never expressed any kind of belief and never looked down on minorities. But once he hit 60 something in him snapped I guess. He became deeply religious and suddenly started talking crap about minorities - which is the reason he's a _former_ family friend. I'd love to hear about how your deconversion affected your views.
There is no hole except when going through a bad patch caused by outside factors or childhood emotional neglect. I know that it can't be filled with religion.
@Gandalf TheWise I guess I should have clarified by adding quotations and the reference to The Bible being truth yet so shrouded in mystery and contradictions.
@@ChristianSoldier71 I have studied too much of the Bible to know that Hades was a physical place, that writers had a very limited understanding so they attributed much to the mystical. But yeah. Go ahead and lecture a woman who studied biblical history.
I went to a very prestigious Catholic middle and Strake Jesuit High School in Houston. Of about 200 graduating students in my class only 2 did not go directly to college. The education was so good that there was a running joke among mostly seniors ('88) that when you graduate ' you will either be a very strong Atheist or a very strong Catholic'.
I went to a religious college - religion courses were required, where we studied NT origins and some of the splinter groups of the early church. It was really interesting, but I have to say that some people went into that with what they would consider a "strong faith" and left as an atheist or at least having much weaker faith (provided they paid attention and thought about it). There are always a few that are capable of ignoring everything and they would probably say their faith was stronger. Personally I know a couple of people who were on the seminary track and ended up not believing at all, once they realized just how shaky the foundations of the faith really were. In order to buy into modern dogma, you have to believe that a very long series of arbitrarily made decisions based on zero evidence, going back 2000 years, were all correct. Sure they were.
We have a big struggle to be healed from that huge trauma that awful religion left in our hearts. We wasted the best years of our lives being taught mythology, although deep down in our hearts we knew that there was something wrong. Right now I am struggling with much anger. It is very hard.....
I feel you. Even I never belived - I grew up beeing tortured by my grandmothers JW - extremistic nonsense - she destroyed the entire family - the trauma and ANGER is real. The only good thing that comes aut of it is a good bullshit detector in our brain. Once you see that stuff for what it is - you can't ansee any kind of scam.
The BLESSING is that you escaped that dark abyss. We, who managed to escape, are the Chosen Ones. Please, do not taint your blessing with anger. It's time to celebrate. Peace and Love!
The BLESSING is that you escaped that dark abyss. We, who managed to escape, are the Chosen Ones. Please, do not taint your blessing with anger. It's time to celebrate. Peace and Love!@@patrickjones2379
Great video. I was raised in Christianity and stayed in it for many decades. This is the short version but eventually, I researched and found no good evidence for the claims I'd been told my whole life. Took a long time but deconstructed and have been so incredibly happy to drop all this dogma. Thanks for your work. Alice
Exactly!!! 👍👏 The more truth you understand about what information was kept from you by the "institutions" of religion, the more the evidence shows the mythology on which the lies of religions were based.
Do you now have any 'good evidence' to prove, for example, God does not exist? How can any natural science in any case demonstrate anything about the supernatural ?
Like Patrick Jones, my father encouraged research and reading. My questioning began around the fifth and sixth grades. The patronizing responses confused and frustrated me. I spent countless hours "tarrying for the Holy Ghost" as a remedy for being a "Doubting Thomas". Patrick's journey is reminiscent of my own. Thank you for sharing.
Wow! You really hit home. I am not offended what you said about Baylor. Class of 62.I was there when they were just tearing up all the families around the campus to improve and beautify the campus. In the nineties my three kids also slso attended Baylor and graduated. I attended Antioch church once while visiting my kids. Two went on missionary trips to Mexico, Peru and Brazil. Thanks for the interview. I am waking up on my eighties. I still believe in God but not the vindictive and angry God mentioned in the bible. My God is above religion.
Enjoyed Patrick's journey. I went to 13 schools in 11 years, 2 of which were Catholic boarding schools. By age 12, I was a total non-believer. Thanks, Tim, for yet another great interview.
I’d like to comment on the sexual repression in Christianity and how it affects succeeding generations. My mother was raised in a very strict and puritanical church. She was taught that sex is a sin and the body is to be ashamed of. She didn’t raise my siblings and me as Christian, as she was totally turned off by the cruel and punishing “white man in the sky”, and no less by God’s supposed “son”. However the purity culture never left her, and consequently we were taught to believe the same as she: that sex is a sin and the body is to be ashamed of. I’m in my 60s and still dealing with that horrible indoctrination. Thankfully I raised my children to be open and loving individuals who don’t carry bodily or sexual shame.
Gosh when you started the monologue about saying “here I am send me, God” my body literally was like “nope”. 😅Still have such a visceral reaction to that language and rhetoric. Glad I stuck it out, it was a great video.
The first video I watched was his anniversary from his exit of Christianity and he professed a similar speech, and I and the same reaction. It had been awhile since I had heard someone talk about God like that. It is a physical response.
35:40 Yah... the music is such a powerful emotional brainwashing manipulator. I dumped Christianity 31 years ago and still have certain songs pop in my head or find myself involuntarily singing or humming them. Makes me cringe sometimes.
@billguthrie2218 27 stories by around 16 authors tell 16 to 27 stories which are so different that an author spent time, and money to alter preexisting stories. But this is only the limited perspective as mist of Christian storytelling took place outside of it. We have dozens of gospels who were excluded from the collection. One thing we knowhow each writer considered all other stories as false. One puts only so much time, effort and cost into such an endeavor to correct preexisting stories when one consider them to be false.
I hope you will interview someone that has a personal experience with predestination. It’s interesting to me that predestination is in the Bible several times and yet Christians don’t believe in predestination. They claim that the Bible is the literal word of God and no errors. Yet somehow they refuse to acknowledge that our lives are predestined.
Great interview. Patrick, your story is so interesting. I would indeed love to hear a Part 2 where you have maybe 5 key topics that you and ‘Harmonic’ want to go into more detail in, and focus on those. I will look forward to it, should that come to pass…
@@ChristianSoldier71 what if after 1 billion years in hell, God decides to see if everyone there *still* denies Jesus? Presumably this would be long enough for even the most hardened skeptic to have all their questions answered. If they are not denying at this point, then they don’t need to be in hell anymore, right? Forgiveness applies? So maybe (nearly) everyone will end up in heaven.
By what authority are fringe protestant groups Christianity ? Almost every single Christian is either Catholic or Orthodox. The scientific method originates from the monasteries, Francis Bacon, René Descartes and Isaac Newton, if we did not believe the world is strictly ordered by law/design, then why would we ever take mathematics from paper and apply it to reality ? As a Catholic we hold the belief that the main evidence for God is found in his creation (beauty, natural law, ordered by nature, conscience, religious impulse). As such we believe in creation by God (not creationism, we have freedom to choose which is most convincing within certain parameters). Evolution is typically accepted, we are bound to follow Truth and what is to be found in nature as all of this would be God's design. No matter how good evidence is for either belief or non-belief, people would still fall into two camps. Even in the Bible you see the "chosen people" stray into different forms of spirituality at the drop of a hat. Note: I am only a layman, my fields are computer science and mathematics, not theology and/or philosophy. English is not my native language.
@@timmyholland8510 several accounts of that time were disregarded when Christianity made its official canon. Dozens of gospels didn't make the cut. Yet many of them had just as much credibility as the rest. Why are some accounts acceptable and others aren't? I guess you have faith that the people who chose the canon had no political motivation in their choices
Thank you for your interesting discussion. I was raised in fundamentalist Christian and New Age churches. At a fairly early age like 6 or 7, i knew i didn't really have faith. I had no idea how it even felt to have it. Somehow i developed a rather vague notion that if i just kept looking through the Bible, one day i would discover a "magical" verse that, like "abracadabra" said by a magician, would like a "key" open a "door" or "window" in my "heart", into which "real faith" would enter, maybe a "ladder" made out of puffy white clouds would descend from the heavens along with one or more angels, unicorns, fairies, etc., shimmering, sparkling golden, silvery, and iridescent spiritual jewels. Then i would KNOW by "faith" beyond all doubt that the Bible is "true". Year after year i kept looking through the Bible, reading parts of it, and having "faith" that religious "faith" would happen. And it never did. I always wondered how other people got THEIR "faith", but i was too shy to ask, and even my mother didn't seem to want to talk about it. That was so long ago. It's why i enjoy videos like this so much!
Tim, I love your interviews and the conversational-method you use. Please don’t listen to the perfectionist critics. You are being YOU. The majority of us highly appreciate your style and support you 100%. Cheers from Northern Canada!
I never believed for one simple reason...My parents had more respect for me than to teach me things they could only pretend to know! That was extremely rare in 1949! Here in 2023 it's the rule, not the exception! The babymakers of today understand that believers are manufactured by other believers! That makes faith a suckers bet! Your age of reason will never come without your participation...By age 7, reason and logic become more difficult to ignore! The truth will prevail as willful ignorance and wishful thinking take their place in history! How do you like me so far?
I don't believe because of the bible. I believe because when I was young, I asked God to make me aware of His existence during my lifetime that I may know Him. When I was 31, my prayer was answered.
@@marcomoreno6748 On a spiritual level, I messed with some things that put my soul in danger. Out of the blue a friend invited me to church. At the word "church" I realized God was my only hope. I told him so and he led me in prayer to repent and confess belief in Jesus. It felt like a waterfall rushing through my soul, just like a spiritual baptism. I'm just an ordinary guy, but I know that had to be God's Holy Spirit.
@Gandalf TheWise have to compare it to the old testament, its relative contemporary. Property. Loyalty. Perseverance. vengeance. In an era where it is virtuous to use deception and violence against a strict dichotomy and utterly strict duality of what is declared without nuance to be evil by the personal perspective of the protagonist
Thanks! You won't have to buy it though, it will be posted in a video presentation (or 20!) and a Google Drive document that everyone will be able to access. Hoping to have it in good shape by this summer.
I had a neighbor who screamed “Jesus” all the time. I asked her one day to explain Isaiah 43:11 I quoted it to her, she had no answer, got mad at me and as a “fine Christian woman” has been rude to me since. There are so many inconsistencies from chapter to chapter. Our spirit is us, we choose to be good or bad. Have you ever looked at how miserable Christians look? The only ones who look truly happy are the Joel Olsteen, Benny Hinns who are filthy rich from the weakness of those who believe their deceptions. The Hindus make more sense, I listen to Sanghguru alot and he puts it all in perspective and again, it comes back to each of us as to how we live and love through our spirituality.
Yes, I can relate to the difference between the fundamentalist churches, and the more traditional, liturgical churches. They are seen as evil. I grew up around liturgical churches, not alot of evangelical churches around. They are much different, and take a more integrated approach to faith. And yet, I found that, spending some time at a Bible based church, then stepping back into a liturgical church, I could see how scripture was interwoven in the hymns, the sacraments, the liturgy, etc. It made sense.
This world is full of half-baked Christians. You can’t know God with head knowledge. You can read all the books in the world and half all the degrees about God and still don’t know Him. Listen guys! GOD IS A SPIRIT AND MUST BE WORSHIPPED IN THE SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH. You have to have a child like faith to know HIM. JESUS IS ALIVE AND WELL AND I KNOW HIM!!!!!
Sooo, like you haven’t really READ the Bible , obviously. . Yeshua demanded all his followers be hard COMMUNIST , ACTS of the Apostles ch. 2 . He cursed the rich , ‘’it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle the a rich man enter kingdom of heaven’’. I am sure you are a communist that has given all your possessions to the lazy over breeding poor, and trust THE LORD for all your needs :like the birds of the air and the flowers of the fields . Oh, and yeshua boldly proclaimed and promised “those standing in this room will not taste death till he returns in glory. Oh, they are all dead 2000 yrs, and he is a no show.
It seems that these christian colleges that I hear about on Tim's channel do not provide any sort of comprehensive education. I am boggled by how you can go out into the world with a fraction of an education and negotiate it successfully. It seems like these schools cripple people intellectually and even spiritually. Those who do break out appear to be uncommonly intelligent and thoughtful. The secular world is enriched by these individuals.
Yeah, i know. I was looking at it yesterday when I was rewatching and thought, "Damn! So confidently wrong..." I read it every year. You'd think I'd know
I recently discovered that the churches I went to in high school and college in the 1960s have since dropped the “Baptist” from their names! I hope that means they fled the fundamentalism and nationalism common among Baptist churches.
Once upon a time There lived a dude whose life ended bloody bitterly like lime He died completely naked by crucifixion And it is an xxx rated horri-fiction.
Oh yes, the problem of other religions. How to show any one faith is better than another faith? Not even a masturbation prayer circle can solve this riddle.
Wow what a great interview. Tim shares a lot of the intricacies of his indoctrination. Anyone who says Tim was never saved should listen to this! This may be the best channel on the internet. On to 100k subscribers!
I don't know whether he was doing it to smooth the conversation, fill in gaps or what but as an interviewer I found he kept putting words in the mouth of his guest by making commentary and interpretations based on his own experiences rather than letting his guest speak and rather than letting his guest tell his own story. Doing what he did assumes Tim knows everything Patrick thinks and that there is only one way this could be understood or experienced. It's either very bad technique or very self centered. Maybe both. I don't think I am but maybe someone will tell me I am out of line. I want this to be a good interview and am accurate and interesting one. If Tim does this with every guest, will know a lot about Tim but way too little about his guests and we'll have spent way more time than we should have. I can't say I'd be able to do a better job but this might inspire me to find examples of better techniques. I also would prefer that Tim frame himself in the camera shot more like how Patrick framed himself in the camera shot. Going way out there, I'd like the medium to develop in such a way that interview have multiple camera angles going simultaneously, one that the guest sees that's face to face but also a separate camera angle that the audience sees from the side resembling traditional camera angles. They could be periodically swapped in editing to make the whole video more interesting and allow for us to see more body language
Your advice is golden. Sadly, I don't know whether Tim will have the humility, and yes, courage, to overcome his ego and obey you. My prayer is that he will. You can join me in that prayer, or if you don't like prayer, you can send positive vibes into the cosmos which will make him do it.
@@adamclark1972uk Like so many of us, I've found prayer to be something of a mix between a lot of neutral/placebo/benign and empty/hollow/lazy gestures to an outright manipulative one. I've found reasons to attribute prayer to motivations to pressure people. I've found reasons to attribute it to them wanting to delude themselves to excuse themselves from doing the right thing. When I'm being graceful, I attribute it to their being indoctrinated and never stopping to question it. What I'm really hoping is that thousands of people *_"like" _* my comment and raise its visibility as you have done. More high quality atheist creators and high quality atheist content inspiring millions to feel safe enough to question their dogma and come out of the closet. More high quality content showing millions of people how to think critically and understand the right questions to ask about their religion. More high quality atheist content spawning humanist community. More high quality content liberating people to find safety and moral and ethical answers in philosophy, psychology, social/behavioral science, anthropology More commitment to fix the severe flaws in our runaway capitalistic economic system. More commitment to fix the severe gaps in our political representation system and our system of justice designed for the wealthy. Nobody should be hungry. Nobody should be cold, dirty, or without medical care. Nobody should feel at risk or in need of violence. Everyone should feel connected to close and intimate relations through clean efficient speedy low-to-no cost communications, TRANSPORTATION and technology. Utopian optimism might be an impossible ideal but unless we aim for it we'll stay farther from it than if we don't try. Let's start by getting the word out about fixing things in this world not a future world that likely doesn't exist in real "Truth"
Tim: These interviews would be much more helpful if 95% of the time focused on why your guest no longer believes and 5% focused on what they used to believe. This interview reversed those percentages in the wrong direction and I personally learned nothing from it.
"Religion is an IQ test by definition."- Aaron Kuntze Let's check the book of Lucifer's knowledge shall we? Cretin: from the word christianus. (Christian) 1: an innocent wretch, one affected with cretinisum. 2: a stupid,vulgar or insensitive person. That's why i left. They called me Lucifer and kicked me out of Sunday school with extreme prejudice for using a Dictionary and binary math to debate with them. Fact is that the lower your IQ is the more conservative you tend to be.
I was raised Pentecostal and I grew up baptized in the Baptist so I considered myself a Bapicostal. And I love the Lord with all my heart and love to raise my hands and pray outloud. I can't finish the video but they've changed things into Science and told them we from monkeys. I'm sorry but you might be from a monkey but I'm not. Every knee shall bow down to the Most High. God bless everyone
We are in the primate order & great ape family so evolved from a primate from which other primates evolved such as monkeys, chimpanzees & gorillas. I've seen capuchin monkeys in the trees in a tourist attraction & noticed how similar their mannerisms are to humans.
Can't force anyone to open their eyes to the truth that Christianity is a myth. Can't force anyone to let go of a trope handed to them by apologists based on a misunderstanding and a lie about evolution. Designed to allow them to escape the recognition of cognitive dissonance and natural tendency to seek out the truth that their obligation to indoctrination prevents them from doing. When they find safety and trust they may seek out epistemology like the renowned Anthony Magnabosco. Science gives them modern medicine and information technology. Phones laptops cars electricity RUclips Cognitive dissonance. Sunk cost
Please not that again. *groan* There is a huge difference between evolving from monkeys and monkeys and humans evolving from a common ancestor. No different from dogs and foxes evolving from a common ancestor. That's such an old and incorrect argument and displays a complete ignorance of the process of evolution.
There was most likely some BIG lumberjack personality that inspired the yarn "Paul Bunyan" BUT that doesn't mean that I think Paul Bunyan is not a myth. ..... Jehoshua bar Mari (Jesus) likely existed but y'all worship a hyped-up myth.
I never was a Christian, and have been atheist for over 50 years. Mom dragged us kids into church when we were all pretty young, kicking and screaming, and I just never believed it. For me, God and Jesus went straight out the window right alongside Santa and the bunny, and I've never looked back. #ReligionIsFiction
Great analogy!!!
What do you think or believe happens to our soul when you die? Do you have any perspective on heaven or hell? Im just curious.🤔
@@travislee1658 I believe that there is some sort of difference between the religious and the spiritual. Religion is a human invention that was made up within the last 10,000 years, and homo sapiens has been around for about 250,000 years.
That's why I don't believe in fictional characters such as God and Satan. Heaven and Hell are fictional places.
But I do believe in spirits that can be observed, such as Life and Death. All of us have the same human body, and yet our personalities are unique from each others'. We also observe that in our pets. Our real lives are submerged while we sleep, and Life goes away when we die.
It is only speculation, but I believe that wherever it was before we were born, thats where we return to when we die.
Ive been a Christian for 70 years and got "unplugged" 3 yrs ago. Now am out of the matrix.
Happy for you. I’ve been indoctrinated to the core for decades, and just started questioning everything and realizing it’s all a control mechanism based on lies. It’s amazing what a grip it gets on you.
It's interesting to see someone deconvert at that age. Did your opinions on social issues change as well? A former family friend of ours headed the opposite direction. He never talked about god, never expressed any kind of belief and never looked down on minorities.
But once he hit 60 something in him snapped I guess. He became deeply religious and suddenly started talking crap about minorities - which is the reason he's a _former_ family friend. I'd love to hear about how your deconversion affected your views.
As a now healthy person, I have discovered that I don’t need something or someone to “fill the hole” (gross) in my heart. My heart is full!
There is no hole except when going through a bad patch caused by outside factors or childhood emotional neglect. I know that it can't be filled with religion.
"denise p" excellently put !
Wonderful
Amen
@@ChristianSoldier71 no it’s not.
Truth never envelopes itself in mystery.
@Gandalf TheWise I guess I should have clarified by adding quotations and the reference to The Bible being truth yet so shrouded in mystery and contradictions.
@@ChristianSoldier71 I have studied too much of the Bible to know that Hades was a physical place, that writers had a very limited understanding so they attributed much to the mystical. But yeah. Go ahead and lecture a woman who studied biblical history.
I went to a very prestigious Catholic middle and Strake Jesuit High School in Houston. Of about 200 graduating students in my class only 2 did not go directly to college. The education was so good that there was a running joke among mostly seniors ('88) that when you graduate ' you will either be a very strong Atheist or a very strong Catholic'.
A Strake Alumn! That was my school, too. Yeah, nearly everyone went directly to college. It was a very eye-opening experience
Best of luck on your furture!
I went to a religious college - religion courses were required, where we studied NT origins and some of the splinter groups of the early church. It was really interesting, but I have to say that some people went into that with what they would consider a "strong faith" and left as an atheist or at least having much weaker faith (provided they paid attention and thought about it). There are always a few that are capable of ignoring everything and they would probably say their faith was stronger. Personally I know a couple of people who were on the seminary track and ended up not believing at all, once they realized just how shaky the foundations of the faith really were. In order to buy into modern dogma, you have to believe that a very long series of arbitrarily made decisions based on zero evidence, going back 2000 years, were all correct. Sure they were.
@@travis1240Like that last line. Thanks for the chuckle.
I am more and more convinced that putting kids in a Christian school just leads to culture shock. Glad I went to public school.
They never act like "Christians" in those schools anyway. I did do better in public school myself.
We have a big struggle to be healed from that huge trauma that awful religion left in our hearts. We wasted the best years of our lives being taught mythology, although deep down in our hearts we knew that there was something wrong. Right now I am struggling with much anger. It is very hard.....
I feel you. Even I never belived - I grew up beeing tortured by my grandmothers JW - extremistic nonsense - she destroyed the entire family - the trauma and ANGER is real.
The only good thing that comes aut of it is a good bullshit detector in our brain.
Once you see that stuff for what it is - you can't ansee any kind of scam.
The anger can be hard. My wife struggles with it more, but in general, I can imagine women suffering more Christian trauma than cis-het white men.
I still struggle with anger. It comes and goes. I’m working through it now by reading about and volunteering for social justice.
The BLESSING is that you escaped that dark abyss. We, who managed to escape, are the Chosen Ones. Please, do not taint your blessing with anger. It's time to celebrate. Peace and Love!
The BLESSING is that you escaped that dark abyss. We, who managed to escape, are the Chosen Ones. Please, do not taint your blessing with anger. It's time to celebrate. Peace and Love!@@patrickjones2379
Great video.
I was raised in Christianity and stayed in it for many decades.
This is the short version but eventually, I researched and found no good evidence for the claims I'd been told my whole life. Took a long time but deconstructed and have been so incredibly happy to drop all this dogma.
Thanks for your work.
Alice
Congrats on ur freedom 💪
Exactly!!! 👍👏 The more truth you understand about what information was kept from you by the "institutions" of religion, the more the evidence shows the mythology on which the lies of religions were based.
@@Venusbabe66 Thank you.
Do you now have any 'good evidence' to prove, for example, God does not exist? How can any natural science in any case demonstrate anything about the supernatural ?
@Bharath Deva what is the natural science proof of 'freedom'?
Another amazing interview. I love listening to everyone deconstructing stories. Keep up the great work.
Like Patrick Jones, my father encouraged research and reading. My questioning began around the fifth and sixth grades. The patronizing responses confused and frustrated me. I spent countless hours "tarrying for the Holy Ghost" as a remedy for being a "Doubting Thomas". Patrick's journey is reminiscent of my own. Thank you for sharing.
This was me, 100%.
A compelling interview, thank you Patrick and Tim.
Wow! You really hit home. I am not offended what you said about Baylor. Class of 62.I was there when they were just tearing up all the families around the campus to improve and beautify the campus. In the nineties my three kids also slso attended Baylor and graduated. I attended Antioch church once while visiting my kids. Two went on missionary trips to Mexico, Peru and Brazil.
Thanks for the interview. I am waking up on my eighties. I still believe in God but not the vindictive and angry God mentioned in the bible. My God is above religion.
Hail from WA (formerly from Danbury, CT)! Thanks for sharing your experiences! ❤
Self-education, questioning, and deconstructing is the key here. Great interview Tim.
This is one of my favorite interviews! I never knew there were other books of the gospel that never “made the cut” 😮
Enjoyed Patrick's journey. I went to 13 schools in 11 years, 2 of which were Catholic boarding schools. By age 12, I was a total non-believer.
Thanks, Tim, for yet another great interview.
Thanks, Sid!
58:40 A golden nugget that can bring on a tidal wave of change when a person is ready for it.
I always learn so much when I hear the journeys of your guests. Thanks!
I’d like to comment on the sexual repression in Christianity and how it affects succeeding generations. My mother was raised in a very strict and puritanical church. She was taught that sex is a sin and the body is to be ashamed of. She didn’t raise my siblings and me as Christian, as she was totally turned off by the cruel and punishing “white man in the sky”, and no less by God’s supposed “son”. However the purity culture never left her, and consequently we were taught to believe the same as she: that sex is a sin and the body is to be ashamed of.
I’m in my 60s and still dealing with that horrible indoctrination. Thankfully I raised my children to be open and loving individuals who don’t carry bodily or sexual shame.
Gosh when you started the monologue about saying “here I am send me, God” my body literally was like “nope”. 😅Still have such a visceral reaction to that language and rhetoric. Glad I stuck it out, it was a great video.
Thanks, Stacy! Yeah, just listening again I got emotional. Even now, I can still feel that surrender, but now, of course, it feels guilty
The first video I watched was his anniversary from his exit of Christianity and he professed a similar speech, and I and the same reaction. It had been awhile since I had heard someone talk about God like that. It is a physical response.
35:40 Yah... the music is such a powerful emotional brainwashing manipulator. I dumped Christianity 31 years ago and still have certain songs pop in my head or find myself involuntarily singing or humming them. Makes me cringe sometimes.
@Gandalf TheWise I don't listen to newer music. The Beatles are my favorite. But, sure modern music can be as trashy as gospel. Balance
@@ChristianSoldier71 As if we don't know what the Bible says. We were once brainwashed too. Bible study and education can fix that.
Oh Bummer….31 years! I was hoping that phenomenon would go away soon 😊
@billguthrie2218 27 stories by around 16 authors tell 16 to 27 stories which are so different that an author spent time, and money to alter preexisting stories. But this is only the limited perspective as mist of Christian storytelling took place outside of it. We have dozens of gospels who were excluded from the collection. One thing we knowhow each writer considered all other stories as false. One puts only so much time, effort and cost into such an endeavor to correct preexisting stories when one consider them to be false.
@@TorianTammas Or they all knew they were creating fiction and were just trying to be unique or outdo the other guy.
Tim's interviewing skills are in constant improvement! I love it!
I'm glad to know he's looking to improve. He seems to have a good thing going
I hope you will interview someone that has a personal experience with predestination. It’s interesting to me that predestination is in the Bible several times and yet Christians don’t believe in predestination. They claim that the Bible is the literal word of God and no errors. Yet somehow they refuse to acknowledge that our lives are predestined.
Thank you for your hard work and this testimony! Very good
Your discussions are brilliant Mr. Harmonic.
Thank you very much! I really appreciate your support. --Tim
Great interview. Patrick, your story is so interesting. I would indeed love to hear a Part 2 where you have maybe 5 key topics that you and ‘Harmonic’ want to go into more detail in, and focus on those. I will look forward to it, should that come to pass…
Thank you! I never really thought it was interesting until I stepped out that life and realized how weird everything really is.
@@ChristianSoldier71 what if after 1 billion years in hell, God decides to see if everyone there *still* denies Jesus? Presumably this would be long enough for even the most hardened skeptic to have all their questions answered. If they are not denying at this point, then they don’t need to be in hell anymore, right? Forgiveness applies? So maybe (nearly) everyone will end up in heaven.
I like your conversation. I'd like to have you have this conversation after going to ayahuasca ceremony.
@gandalfthewise5015why do you insist on making a fool of yourself on here?
The Jehovah’s Witnesses told me it never rained before the flood…. 😂 & I believed it for 36 years
Baylor alum here. Also born and raised in the Waco area. Folks can get mad if they want, but Patrick is telling the truth.
Christianity is completely based on circular arguments.
By what authority are fringe protestant groups Christianity ?
Almost every single Christian is either Catholic or Orthodox.
The scientific method originates from the monasteries, Francis Bacon, René Descartes and Isaac Newton, if we did not believe the world is strictly ordered by law/design, then why would we ever take mathematics from paper and apply it to reality ?
As a Catholic we hold the belief that the main evidence for God is found in his creation (beauty, natural law, ordered by nature, conscience, religious impulse).
As such we believe in creation by God (not creationism, we have freedom to choose which is most convincing within certain parameters).
Evolution is typically accepted, we are bound to follow Truth and what is to be found in nature as all of this would be God's design.
No matter how good evidence is for either belief or non-belief, people would still fall into two camps.
Even in the Bible you see the "chosen people" stray into different forms of spirituality at the drop of a hat.
Note:
I am only a layman, my fields are computer science and mathematics, not theology and/or philosophy.
English is not my native language.
@gandalfthewise5015no it isn't
@@timmyholland8510 several accounts of that time were disregarded when Christianity made its official canon. Dozens of gospels didn't make the cut. Yet many of them had just as much credibility as the rest. Why are some accounts acceptable and others aren't? I guess you have faith that the people who chose the canon had no political motivation in their choices
Fear mongering, ssssstrrreeesss, emotional traumatizing,.yep. Christianity
Thank you for your interesting discussion. I was raised in fundamentalist Christian and New Age churches. At a fairly early age like 6 or 7, i knew i didn't really have faith. I had no idea how it even felt to have it. Somehow i developed a rather vague notion that if i just kept looking through the Bible, one day i would discover a "magical" verse that, like "abracadabra" said by a magician, would like a "key" open a "door" or "window" in my "heart", into which "real faith" would enter, maybe a "ladder" made out of puffy white clouds would descend from the heavens along with one or more angels, unicorns, fairies, etc., shimmering, sparkling golden, silvery, and iridescent spiritual jewels. Then i would KNOW by "faith" beyond all doubt that the Bible is "true". Year after year i kept looking through the Bible, reading parts of it, and having "faith" that religious "faith" would happen. And it never did. I always wondered how other people got THEIR "faith", but i was too shy to ask, and even my mother didn't seem to want to talk about it. That was so long ago. It's why i enjoy videos like this so much!
Tim, I love your interviews and the conversational-method you use. Please don’t listen to the perfectionist critics. You are being YOU. The majority of us highly appreciate your style and support you 100%. Cheers from Northern Canada!
I never believed for one simple reason...My parents had more respect for me than to teach me things they could only pretend to know! That was extremely rare in 1949! Here in 2023 it's the rule, not the exception! The babymakers of today understand that believers are manufactured by other believers! That makes faith a suckers bet! Your age of reason will never come without your participation...By age 7, reason and logic become more difficult to ignore! The truth will prevail as willful ignorance and wishful thinking take their place in history! How do you like me so far?
1:12:41 - to be fair all universities secular or religious are a net negative to residence of those parts of town.
I don't believe because of the bible. I believe because when I was young, I asked God to make me aware of His existence during my lifetime that I may know Him. When I was 31, my prayer was answered.
How?
@@marcomoreno6748 On a spiritual level, I messed with some things that put my soul in danger. Out of the blue a friend invited me to church. At the word "church" I realized God was my only hope. I told him so and he led me in prayer to repent and confess belief in Jesus. It felt like a waterfall rushing through my soul, just like a spiritual baptism. I'm just an ordinary guy, but I know that had to be God's Holy Spirit.
Eager for the second part. Great discussion.
I count myself lucky to have studied the Odyssey’s instead of the bible .
@Gandalf TheWise b cause it is .I am a atheist .
@Gandalf TheWise it is indeed and I prefer it to the bible , hence “ lucky “
@Gandalf TheWise I find it does
@Gandalf TheWise have to compare it to the old testament, its relative contemporary.
Property. Loyalty. Perseverance. vengeance. In an era where it is virtuous to use deception and violence against a strict dichotomy and utterly strict duality of what is declared without nuance to be evil by the personal perspective of the protagonist
Given his numerous and variant types of educational exposures, he made for a great interview subject. Really enjoyed this one as a result.
Thanks! I knew that learning just enough to get myself in trouble would be useful at some point.
Tim I will totally buy that book if you write it! About where things are quoted from in the bible
Thanks! You won't have to buy it though, it will be posted in a video presentation (or 20!) and a Google Drive document that everyone will be able to access. Hoping to have it in good shape by this summer.
Education makes all the difference.
I had a neighbor who screamed “Jesus” all the time. I asked her one day to explain Isaiah 43:11 I quoted it to her, she had no answer, got mad at me and as a “fine Christian woman” has been rude to me since. There are so many inconsistencies from chapter to chapter. Our spirit is us, we choose to be good or bad. Have you ever looked at how miserable Christians look? The only ones who look truly happy are the Joel Olsteen, Benny Hinns who are filthy rich from the weakness of those who believe their deceptions. The Hindus make more sense, I listen to Sanghguru alot and he puts it all in perspective and again, it comes back to each of us as to how we live and love through our spirituality.
I would love to see time stamps on the video as it's such a long one I don't have the time to listen in one sitting.
Listen at night when you can’t sleep. Just take 2 bayers in the morning.
@@vstrbotten Then it goes through my subconscious as I fall asleep. Good way to get to sleep when finding it difficult to.
@@ChristianSoldier71 Why are you trolling on this channel?
Yes, I can relate to the difference between the fundamentalist churches, and the more traditional, liturgical churches. They are seen as evil. I grew up around liturgical churches, not alot of evangelical churches around. They are much different, and take a more integrated approach to faith.
And yet, I found that, spending some time at a Bible based church, then stepping back into a liturgical church, I could see how scripture was interwoven in the hymns, the sacraments, the liturgy, etc. It made sense.
good work. keep it up :-)
Looking forward to part 2. A real unraveling.
His wife is lucky because a lot of men are not understanding about sexual hangups.
Never heard of second baptist churches
Those missions trips can do damage.
This world is full of half-baked Christians. You can’t know God with head knowledge. You can read all the books in the world and half all the degrees about God and still don’t know Him. Listen guys! GOD IS A SPIRIT AND MUST BE WORSHIPPED IN THE SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH. You have to have a child like faith to know HIM. JESUS IS ALIVE AND WELL AND I KNOW HIM!!!!!
"You can't know God with head knowledge"
This is true.
- atheist ex-Pentecostal of 20 years.
No you don't. And neither did I or any one else.
Knowing something without your head sounds dangerous on several levels. Stay in school!
Sooo, like you haven’t really READ the Bible , obviously. . Yeshua demanded all his followers be hard COMMUNIST , ACTS of the Apostles ch. 2 . He cursed the rich , ‘’it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle the a rich man enter kingdom of heaven’’. I am sure you are a communist that has given all your possessions to the lazy over breeding poor, and trust THE LORD for all your needs :like the birds of the air and the flowers of the fields . Oh, and yeshua boldly proclaimed and promised “those standing in this room will not taste death till he returns in glory.
Oh, they are all dead 2000 yrs, and he is a no show.
Jesus doesn't talk to everyone.
Ayooo Philly represent. Great stream!
Incredible interview - thank you so much!
It seems that these christian colleges that I hear about on Tim's channel do not provide any sort of comprehensive education. I am boggled by how you can go out into the world with a fraction of an education and negotiate it successfully. It seems like these schools cripple people intellectually and even spiritually. Those who do break out appear to be uncommonly intelligent and thoughtful. The secular world is enriched by these individuals.
The book by Neal Stephenson is "Anathem", not "Anathema".
Yeah, i know. I was looking at it yesterday when I was rewatching and thought, "Damn! So confidently wrong..." I read it every year. You'd think I'd know
Please do time stamps
I enjoy your channel
Thank you!
Ayn Rand helped me realize Ive been an atheist my whole life.
I "listened to" God - I wound up in a psychiatric ward 😆
Better to end there and take your meds than try to kill your child coz a voice in your head tell you so.
😜👍
You good withaut that voice - lol
I recently discovered that the churches I went to in high school and college in the 1960s have since dropped the “Baptist” from their names! I hope that means they fled the fundamentalism and nationalism common among Baptist churches.
What is Patrick Jones doing now?
1:15:53 whoa what a wild moment as an audience member who has lived in Philly and Boulder lol
Once upon a time
There lived a dude whose life ended bloody bitterly like lime
He died completely naked by crucifixion
And it is an xxx rated horri-fiction.
Oh yes, the problem of other religions. How to show any one faith is better than another faith? Not even a masturbation prayer circle can solve this riddle.
Add a comment…
👍
If you want to get a real look at the “political agenda” behind the gospels, read “Creating Christ” by James S. Valliant. It will blow your mind.
What are the “aponoshods?” 2:03:59
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upanishads
@@HarmonicAtheist thank you!!!
Danbury Connection! Any Hitch fans smiling? 😄
Wow what a great interview. Tim shares a lot of the intricacies of his indoctrination. Anyone who says Tim was never saved should listen to this!
This may be the best channel on the internet. On to 100k subscribers!
I don't know whether he was doing it to smooth the conversation, fill in gaps or what but as an interviewer I found he kept putting words in the mouth of his guest by making commentary and interpretations based on his own experiences rather than letting his guest speak and rather than letting his guest tell his own story. Doing what he did assumes Tim knows everything Patrick thinks and that there is only one way this could be understood or experienced. It's either very bad technique or very self centered. Maybe both.
I don't think I am but maybe someone will tell me I am out of line. I want this to be a good interview and am accurate and interesting one. If Tim does this with every guest, will know a lot about Tim but way too little about his guests and we'll have spent way more time than we should have.
I can't say I'd be able to do a better job but this might inspire me to find examples of better techniques.
I also would prefer that Tim frame himself in the camera shot more like how Patrick framed himself in the camera shot.
Going way out there, I'd like the medium to develop in such a way that interview have multiple camera angles going simultaneously, one that the guest sees that's face to face but also a separate camera angle that the audience sees from the side resembling traditional camera angles. They could be periodically swapped in editing to make the whole video more interesting and allow for us to see more body language
Your advice is golden. Sadly, I don't know whether Tim will have the humility, and yes, courage, to overcome his ego and obey you. My prayer is that he will. You can join me in that prayer, or if you don't like prayer, you can send positive vibes into the cosmos which will make him do it.
@@adamclark1972uk
Like so many of us, I've found prayer to be something of a mix between a lot of neutral/placebo/benign and empty/hollow/lazy gestures to an outright manipulative one.
I've found reasons to attribute prayer to motivations to pressure people. I've found reasons to attribute it to them wanting to delude themselves to excuse themselves from doing the right thing.
When I'm being graceful, I attribute it to their being indoctrinated and never stopping to question it.
What I'm really hoping is that thousands of people *_"like" _* my comment and raise its visibility as you have done.
More high quality atheist creators and high quality atheist content inspiring millions to feel safe enough to question their dogma and come out of the closet. More high quality content showing millions of people how to think critically and understand the right questions to ask about their religion. More high quality atheist content spawning humanist community. More high quality content liberating people to find safety and moral and ethical answers in philosophy, psychology, social/behavioral science, anthropology
More commitment to fix the severe flaws in our runaway capitalistic economic system.
More commitment to fix the severe gaps in our political representation system and our system of justice designed for the wealthy.
Nobody should be hungry. Nobody should be cold, dirty, or without medical care. Nobody should feel at risk or in need of violence. Everyone should feel connected to close and intimate relations through clean efficient speedy low-to-no cost communications, TRANSPORTATION and technology.
Utopian optimism might be an impossible ideal but unless we aim for it we'll stay farther from it than if we don't try. Let's start by getting the word out about fixing things in this world not a future world that likely doesn't exist in real "Truth"
Tim: These interviews would be much more helpful if 95% of the time focused on why your guest no longer believes and 5% focused on what they used to believe.
This interview reversed those percentages in
the wrong direction and I personally learned nothing from it.
Thanks for that feedback! I will try to get a better balance.
Great discussion.
How do you keep your bike in The same position all The time ?😂
What is hospitality ?
Yeah folks. Snake handlers...one of my influences.
"Religion is an IQ test by definition."- Aaron Kuntze
Let's check the book of Lucifer's knowledge shall we?
Cretin: from the word christianus. (Christian)
1: an innocent wretch, one affected with cretinisum.
2: a stupid,vulgar or insensitive person.
That's why i left.
They called me Lucifer and kicked me out of Sunday school with extreme prejudice for using a Dictionary and binary math to debate with them.
Fact is that the lower your IQ is the more conservative you tend to be.
It's only mythology if you're looking through a religious lens.
The Bible is racial history written for one people. See Genesis 5:1
Good luck
God rules!
I was raised Pentecostal and I grew up baptized in the Baptist so I considered myself a Bapicostal. And I love the Lord with all my heart and love to raise my hands and pray outloud. I can't finish the video but they've changed things into Science and told them we from monkeys. I'm sorry but you might be from a monkey but I'm not.
Every knee shall bow down to the Most High.
God bless everyone
😅😅😅😅😅
We are in the primate order & great ape family so evolved from a primate from which other primates evolved such as monkeys, chimpanzees & gorillas. I've seen capuchin monkeys in the trees in a tourist attraction & noticed how similar their mannerisms are to humans.
Can't force anyone to open their eyes to the truth that Christianity is a myth.
Can't force anyone to let go of a trope handed to them by apologists based on a misunderstanding and a lie about evolution. Designed to allow them to escape the recognition of cognitive dissonance and natural tendency to seek out the truth that their obligation to indoctrination prevents them from doing.
When they find safety and trust they may seek out epistemology like the renowned Anthony Magnabosco.
Science gives them modern medicine and information technology. Phones laptops cars electricity RUclips
Cognitive dissonance.
Sunk cost
@@ChristianSoldier71 "Hell is real...." Please share your experience in Hell. How did you manage to return to earth?
Please not that again. *groan* There is a huge difference between evolving from monkeys and monkeys and humans evolving from a common ancestor. No different from dogs and foxes evolving from a common ancestor. That's such an old and incorrect argument and displays a complete ignorance of the process of evolution.
There was most likely some BIG lumberjack personality that inspired the yarn "Paul Bunyan" BUT that doesn't mean that I think Paul Bunyan is not a myth. ..... Jehoshua bar Mari (Jesus) likely existed but y'all worship a hyped-up myth.
There's a great danger to be a Baptist and not a Christian.
Both are dangerous
Tim ... give yourself a true background.
Jesus is not Christian. Following religious of Christian will never ever see Jesus
Okay. Who cares?
Sounds totalitarian.
Hell is forever. And there are levels to hell. If you cause others to fall away, you will end up in a worse part of Hell.
Source?