When is a keyboard "mechanical"?
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- What makes a keyboard "mechanical"? Are "mecha-membrane" keyboards mechanical? How about optoelectric, Hall effect, dome with slider, etc.? Today we look at a subject that I think deserves some attention. I guess this is more of a philosophical video than usual, but I hope you enjoy it nonetheless! :)
My keyboard reviews: bit.ly/1TbOtft
My switch teardowns: bit.ly/2C1QGHz
My TOP X videos: bit.ly/2FmpZfd
My XL typing demos: bit.ly/2OoAW3w
I'm Thomas and I do videos and reviews on mechanical keyboards ranging from the most sickening modern RGB gaming keyboards to vintage hardware relics, or sometimes keycaps or keyswitches ranging from Cherry MX to Alps SKCM to IBM buckling springs and anything in between.
Follow me on Twitter for updates on my keyboard videos! / chyrosran22 
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Mechanical is like porn. You know it when you see it.
I love that one xD .
*keyboard ASMR*
dorstefan when u feel it*
@@Stackali you mean magical? :P
@@Chyrosran22 it's like chewing 5 gum
My personal definition: "The ones that feel kinda switchey instead of gummy"
@@jalsol well, it's not a perfect definition. Just one that works for me
@@futurepig he was probably telling the other guy
@@jalsol You can also have a rubber dome keyboard feel hard when it bottoms out as well. It all depends on how it's designed.
Romer-G switches feel pretty gummy, alongside MX Browns. =P
There's some rubberdomes that feel switchey while there's mechanical keyboards which are mushy and gummy
We could start delineating by "enthusiast" keyboards vs "non-enthusiast" keyboards. That's really what "mechanical keyboards" effectively indicates.
@VideoCommenter Yeah, I suppose I was thinking "enthusiast keyboards" as in "keyboards that currently only enthusiasts pursue." So old keyboards are not currently mainstream, and have become enthusiast because they're mostly only sought after by enthusiasts.
That's a fairly excellent point, I think!
let’s disqualify razer, logitech, corsair and whatever else keyboards you can buy from a “gaming” company; a company that sells gaming peripherals and computer hardware
@@amok00 Why disqualify keyboards on the basis of the company selling them? That's completely irrelevant, and spreading that kind of attitude stops people recognising when they make something good. It's pointless snobbery.
Doomguy commercial “gaming” keyboards are far from enthusiast level
This is like watching a doctorate degree coursework.
Heh, it's ironic that my doctorate is in chemistry, not keyboards xD .
@@Chyrosran22 dang you have a PhDs? Now I understand all the swearing
The bob ross of vintage keyboards.
More like Gordon Ramsey.
@@B1tPixel lmao
If he was profusely angry and swore alot
A glorified mix of Gordon Ramsey and Bob Ross
Smooth voice but critical to shit keyboards
@@deekay1306 and Ross did the complete opposite. So- totally doesn't fit at all!!! He's totally unlike Ross in every respect but his voice, so... 🤣
Fun fact: Until rock music got somewhat accepted, it was categorized as "electronic music" because of their use of electric guitars and those damn kids.
I listen to heavily distorted electronic music.
those boomers need to listen to merzbow
guitarist in 1950 gets on stage with a semi-hollow guitar: A5
pre-boomers: *_confused screaming_*
10:02 This definition actually has a really funny interaction with Steelseries’ Omnipoint switches (which if you didn’t know, are switches that use a magnet + pcb that detects magnetic strength to make the actuation point adjustable). If you set the actuation anywhere from 0.1mm to 3.9mm, it’s a mechanical switch, but the MOMENT you make it so that you have to bottom out, it stops being mechanical. Probably the worst offender of this definition.
I didn't think this video would turn philosophical.
As Diogenes once said, “BEHOLD, A MAN!”
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you should start recording audio books. Seriously, you'd be fantastic for Robert Jordan or Brandon Sanderson storyline.
My definition of mechanical keyboard: when Thomas has at least one in his closet. It's non-mechanical if he keeps it in his waste bin. Easy.
How about one where he is able to pick one up from a recycling center for 2 pounds or less.
What about smith corona
@@sp3ctum btc rubber domes and electro capacitive switches are technically not mechanical though they feel and sounds great
he keeps that terrible flexible keyboard around though lol
@@adolfazusa1138 Arguing about something being 'technically not mechanical'...it's like you didn't even watch the video.
Enjoying a philosophical approach to this hobby and Chyrosran22's academic ability to investigate the terminologies and technical issues of the topic!
The real problem with "mechanical" keyboards isn't the fact that there is no definition, but the fact that some people assume that mechanical keyboards are better than the rest (mainly rubber domehs) and it's sad because here I am feeling like the only keyboard I could switch to for longer than a week is a btc dome with slider one even though there is a ton of modern keyboards I like (for example ergodox) there is no way I could switch to them because none of modern cherry mx mount switches comes even close to IBM keyboards in term of keyfeel and btc dome with sliders aren't close either, but that's the point - they are so different and yet (with good keycaps) so satisfying to type on that they claimed a second spot in my heart after buckling springs.
>ome people assume that mechanical keyboards are better than the rest
yeah, that's the biggest problem, because why good rubber dome keyboard must be worse than actual cherry mx switch type board? Lots of people complain about "muh partway through actuation, 50/70/2137 milion keypresses that mean nothing when it comes to reliability issues, nkro (or worse: full antighosting) support and RGB(T) that is rather more visually appealing than actually helpful, because cheap desk lamp provides much better visibility when typing at night", why good keyboard from 1980s/1990s must be considered as worse, nevermind if it feels better or is at least as reliable as "mechanical" keyboard made in 2018?
you might like a bke dome swapped plum :P my favorite keyboard right now (though I'm hoping that changes when I finish building my custom)
@@Crokto there are several keyswitches I want to try out at some point because they seem like a good contestant for being the second and third favourite switches of mine (Alps SKCM Blue, Topreh with gray bke domes and zealio with 100g SPRiT springs), but because I live in poland there are almost no mechanical keyboard meet ups nearby so that's a bummer.
"none of modern cherry mx mount switches comes even close to IBM keyboards in term of keyfeel" I mean yeah, there's nothing like a Model M, F or a Beamspring, those are all in a class of their own, however I can recommend some modern MX mount switches I like.
Ace Pad Hall Effect, if you're okay with Linears, are really nice, reliable and smooth as butter.
Kailh BOX Navy have a really nice satisfying tactile click, if you're okay with the sound and an above average weight. They're nice and smooth too.
Royal Hakos, if you want a more tactile rubber dome-like rounded feel in a discreet switch. The tactile bump is right at the top and it pushes the slider past the contact point so as soon as you feel the tactile bump, you know it actuated. And they actively prevent you from bottoming out too, much like Cherry MX Clear only with a much more pronounced tactility. They are heavy, but they feel quite soft as you don't really bottom out that often. IMO, smoother and nicer than BOX Royals.
I have some low-cost rubber dome keyboards that are as pleasing to type on as keyboards costing ten times as much. Too bad they flex like hell.
That said, I have some 25 and 30 year old rubber dome keebs that feel great and are built like tanks.
One of your best videos so far! 😯
Thank you! :)
your voice feels like an angel is slapping my face
YOUR HIIIIIIIIIDEOUS FACE
@Vox3l-Gl1tch stop.
"If it doesn't feel like typing on shit, it's mechanical". There.
So cherry isnt mechanical?
It’s all subjective. Or is it. Tf the switch sits in a sturdy frame mounted in an even better case and not on an flimsy pcb losely inside a thin plastic shell then even a cherry key can do well at least If it’s not brown 🤢 or MY
@@theicycrook8373 reds and silvers are the only good cherry switches
@@umbra9705 reds are pretty bad as well
turns out buckling springs are mechanical, nice
Enjoyed it a lot. You introduced so many switch types and KB models to explain your points that it felt like visiting a KB museum. Keep the vids coming!
I’ve been hoping for a video from you on this subject. Spot-on.
Glad to see this video push through from that discussion we had in the comments a few videos back. I'm all for a pragmatic understanding of the term "mechanical". We use it merely to convey a broad, vague, and even arbitrary sense of what makes a keyboard better than the run-of-the-mill standard office rubber dome membranes, but that whenever we try to pin it down, a full solid definition will always evade us. I'd say its part of what makes this hobby so interesting; that we can't even properly delineate the clear limits of what constitutes a keyboard worth our interest (and therefore the criteria by which we can pre-judge keyboards as being such). I agree that we should all learn to just try a keyboard before judging it, but at the same time I think we can continue to accept that the term "mechanical" has its practical place in our parlance despite its ultimately non-rational meaning.
Oh, it definitely has its uses. It's a perfect term to advertise with, for example. Or if you're trying to explain why the keyboards you're so interested in are better than "normal" keyboards. But all this need to rigidly qualify things really does a lot of harm to for example keyboard innovation IMO.
@@Chyrosran22 Couldn't agree more. Case in point being the misguided way Cherry MX's market leadership has skewed views on keyboard quality. I literally have a friend who thinks that the scratchiness of his mid-2000's MX Blacks somehow make them feel more "mechanical", and hence why he thinks Flaretechs and Box switches feel "unmechanical" somehow. Still under that marketing-induced logic that says that because Cherry MX are industry standard, it means they're to be treated as the benchmark. It drives me nuts.
Anyway, I definitely enjoy these types of analysis videos, and I hope to see more.
As I watched more videos and read articles and forum posts the "mechanical" in mechhanical keyboard became more of a marketing term than an actual category to me. As you mentioned the term mechanical involves a mechanism that moves.
How I categorize keyboard mechanisms now are something like this:
1. Membrane - Uses a membrane sheet or a rubber dome being pressed by a shaft to complete the circuit. This includes the "Mechanical-feel" keyboard that are just rubber domes.
2. Scissor Switch - Technically a subset of Membrane due to the use of rubber domes but is different due to the mecanism that presses on the rubber domes.
3. Optical - Uses light sensors to sense if a key is pressed.
4. Buckling Spring - IBM Model M and Model F (they're their own kind of beast).
5. Magnetic/Hall Effect - Uses magnetism properties to sense switch actuation.
6. Capacitive - Uses Capacitance to sense switch actuation like Topre.
7. "Mechanical" - Uses metal contacts to close a circuit and trigger the switch.
8. Mecha-Membrane - The weirdo that uses a mechanical shaft with multiple parts to press on a rubber dome.
9. Laser Projection - A category for the weird laser projection keyboards that have no moving parts and just projects its "keys" on a surface.
But meh at the end of the day when I talk to people about "mechanical" keyboards and switches we understand it as the type that has metal contacts to close a circuit and register a key.
The Membrane keyboard I liked the best is a KeyTronic E03601 (non ergoforce version) as it feels tactile to me while not being as creaky as modern rubber dome membrane boards and it is decently heavy to press which I quite like. It is still the best membrane keyboard I have though not working anynore due to the traces near the controller board failing I have it as a display piece on my shelf of old technology. It sits on top of VHS tapes and bootleg Sega MegaDrive games.
The Scissor Switch type I like due to the low travel, but they are very different from one model to another. Older ones tend to have a bit more travel than newer ones where they make them too thin that it feels like I'm tapping on solid plastic and not pressing anything or have sh*t keycaps that break easily. So far I have settled on the keyboards on IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads and use the ThinkPad Compact USB keyboard on my computer. It feels the best among the scissor switches I have tried but between the ThinkPad keyboards I somewhat prefer the newer chiclet (or Island style as they call it) versions as the older ones (non Island style) felt a bit mushy for me.
As for the typical Mechanical keyboard, I hate Blues or any clicky ones. I use Reds but would like to try other linear types if possible. Linear Reds may be more quiet but still a fair bit louder than the ThinkPad USB keyboard I have mentioned which is Scissor Switch.
I've had several of these thoughts before, and the end result is I've made an active effort to say "microswitched keyboard" instead of "mechanical keyboard". Which is really just trading one ambiguity for another, but at least I'm not defying all reasonable definitions of the word "mechanical".
Somewhere in the 1980s, I think, philosopher Richard Boy developed a theory called "the homeostatic cluster-property theory of metaethical naturalism"
Great name, I know. The point is that Boyd thought that they're concepts like Good and Evil, or in this case "Mechanical" that describe material reality, but are made up of a cluster of properties instead of a strict definition. Meaning that they're a lot of people things you might want to include in the property cluster of "mechanical" but we're never going to pin down exactly what those are and what they're not, because that's not how the concept works. The example Boyd used was health. They're a number of things that go into deciding if a person is healthy, like a beating heart or certain levels of blood pressure, good posture, whatever. But a person can be unhealthy while exhibiting some of the properties in the cluster and be healthy while missing some. Still, according to Boyd, these concepts, like good, evil, healthy and mechanical, are useful to have and can be objectively true. Or at least true in the same sense that scientific statements are.
It's the same question as "are videogames art" I guess, with pretty much the same answer: don't get hung up on terminology too much or you lose sight of what really matters.
Interesting video. Wouldn't mind more videos along this style if you had anything else you wanted to go on about because you show your care about the topic and your experience pulls through too.
I have never thought about it that way! Love the conclusion of what do you think it feels like? If it's good then it's great for you.
Thank you - this really cleared up a lot of confusion for me
Great video, could have been one of the very first in your channel :)
Your analysis makes all the sense, I agree what matters is our perception of the typing experience (sound and feel) regardless of how the device actually registers our fingers trying to activate different keys. The "mechanical" tag for keyboards seems indeed sort of discrimination-based only.
Mechanical in general should just mean that there are ***moving solid parts*** in the device, regardless of materials or operating principle. If anything solid other than our fingers needs to move for a key to activate, then it is ***mechanical*** . If only electromagnetic fields or photons "move" or change, but nothing solid other than our fingers move during the typing, only then it would clearly be ***non-mechanical*** .
Almost all keyboards are therefore mechanical, except laser virtual ones, or touchpad/touch screens.
That very same definition of mechanical is what distinguishes a normal spinning harddrive disk (mechanical because it has moving parts) from an SSD (non-mechanical, because it has no moving parts.)
Wow, points for how extremely well you are able to break down the definition.
This video is amazing, well done!
An idea for a top x video:
top x best built keyboards
And then the top x worst built keyboards, excluding projected ones and the godawful calculator type ones on the ZX spectrum.
top x most overpriced keyboards
top 10 best switch clones
@@deletedaccount966
1. That adjustable ergonomic Cherry MX Brown board, I forget the name of it
@@JackOfHarts96 2. Any hhkb
We're all mechanical here. :D
Great choice of topic as it's one that comes up frequently. I also don't think it matters much, since there are a lot of factors that go into deciding if you like the feel of a keyboard.
Nice thought provoking commentary. Changed my view, on a couple points. I think you're right, we're never going to have one commonly adhered to definition of mechanical keyboards because our general view of them is one based on a "feeling" and feelings are purely subjective by the individual. But after listening to this video, I'm perfectly happy with a definition in the broadest sense that incorporates any physical keyboard that someone might like, even if I'm not fond of it myself. (Like rubber domes).
Well said! I've been thinking in a similar vein for quite a while now.
Hi Thomas! Thanks for providing us with a shit load of awesome content! I grew up in my dad's computer workshop in the late 80s and 90s, and since they didn't really cater to a particular brand of computers, everything came through the store - home computers with rubber caps, rubber domes and the occasional model M. Now, being in my mid 40s, I find myself somewhat nostalgic for the keyboards of the old days, while also being quite critical of quality and esthetics. I'm currently testing if Varmilo VA88M with blue's is a good fit for me, but while it has the click I was looking for, the charcoal caps really aren't working out for me. I rarely need to read the caps, but when I do, I prefer not to squint and use a flashlight. Honestly, with my eyes, the caps on this keyboard is only readable for about an hour around high noon. I wouldn't say I'm in the market for high contrast yet, but I'd go for something a little less charcoaly.
Anyway, enough blabbering - question time: the TKL keyboard in your video around 1:08 and the 100% around 12:08 has some of the most delicious 70s/80s style keycaps I've seen in a long time. Not just the shape, but also the color theme. Could I trouble you for the make and model of keyboard and/or caps? :-)
Great video, very interesting, I never knew that there are so many different key types.
I've always liked your partway actuation definition, cuz at least for me that's what makes me hate typical rubber domes, and what I think frustrates most people about your typical office keyboard - the need to bottom out extra hard because some keys don't register when typing normally and others bind for no discernible reason.
So its a quality of manufacturing problem? Because Topres bottom out, and I've never seen anyone complain about them.
@@alexandrecosta2567 first of all, i can assure you that many people have complained about topre. but also, while topre certainly can bottom out because yeah duh, they actuate partway down, much like "normal" mechanical switches.
@@Crokto right, I still feel like quality plays a big role on the whole "enthusiast" market. Green alps are more valuable than salmon or blacks, and they're still alps
@@alexandrecosta2567 no doubt
The earliest breakdown of keyboard technologies that I've seen that specifically mentions "mechanical" as distinct from other technologies was in a PC Magazine roundup of "replacement" IBM PC keyboards in 1992. It listed "mechanical", "conductive rubber dome" and "membrane switches" as distinct technologies (and specifically did *not* consider the Model M mechanical). Mechanical keyboards were shown to be keyboards with a spring (though the text never actually mentioned this) and metal contacts actuated when the plunger pushed them against the metal sides of the mechanism, one side of which would reach down to the PCB. "Mechanical" was ill-defined even then, with the magazine noting that several "membrane" keyboards used mechanical spring actuators, allowing them to retain a mechanical feel "without compromise" (whatever that means). But the point is this term grew in an era when there were fewer keyboard technologies to distinguish, and in general they were more distinct. Even then, though, there was some overlap, and over time, manufacturers often made hybrid designs. But the term "mechanical" stuck, despite it losing more and more of its meaning over the years.
Nowadays I think it's basically a term to distinguish "rubber dome" from "everything else". Which is still a useful thing to do when talking about current production keyboards.
"Mechanical" has been used as a marketing term at least as early as the late 70s. In the 90s, everyone was just as brainwashed by marketing talk as people are now xD .
As you say technically any moving keyboard is mechanical. In reality, the term Mechanical Keyboard comes from the switches, being two metal contacts that engage to make contact, then disengage. With that, technically a Magnetic Reed Switch is mechanical, whereas all the rest are not really.
Glad someone made a video like this because in my mind anything with moving parts is a mechanical keyboard which includes regular dome keyboards.
Honestly some dome keyboards are good. I am older and grew up on old keyboards with alps etc. My first pc was a commodore 64 and I have no problems on quality dome keyboards. Never any missed keys as long as they are good ones. I still have a old G15 I use allot and the domes on it are good, they bind up quickly near the top of the stroke and once they release they always bottom out there is no half pushes... if it makes the tactile feeling half way then it goes the rest of the way and makes contact every time, I can't get it past the bump without contact even if I try.
Philosophy 101: What is the fundamental nature of a mechanical keyboard ft. Socrates
your typical cherry style, topre, alps, optical, hall effect etc. count only ones that doesn't are rubber dome, mem-chanical and solid state keyboards
Makes me think of Ludwig Wittgenstein, I think he would say mechanical keyboard is a cluster concept. You can not pin it down with sufficient or necessary conditions but in the language community (keyboard nerds) we generally understand it.
1:13 anyone know where to get one of those alps switch testers? Or was that soldered together by that one owner?
When my old rubber dome keyboard started causing hand stress, sticky keys, letters worn down to invisibility, I begin to explore the world of keyboards. In the end, I selected an inexpensive, clicky, RGB keyboard from Amazon. I have been so happy with how much easier it is to type on it, I love how this sound reminds me of the days when I used old-school type writers, and the back lighting makes it easy to find numbers if I type into the dark hours of the evening. I may touch type, but I’ve never been good at typing numbers. Maybe someday I will get to try out the fabulous Topre or old-school IBM keyboards. But for now I am really happy with these clicky and fast keys.
Do you record the audio and then record the videos gesturing while you listen to your own voice? Or you record little videos and then edit all together? Great work!
My own and *personal* definition is:
_"A keyboard which its keys present a mechanism over the plate in which those are mounted"._
This excludes traditional membrane, tactile screens, virtual keyboards and the laser keyboard whilst including topre, cherry, ibm model m or f, etc.
Hey bro i watched so many videos already, and iam looking for a new keyboard now. What mechanical keyboard can you recommend ? Iam working and playing on it.
i have zed blade with kalih red andlgbt(rgb) lightning is it mech keobard
What most people consider a mechanical switch (at least subconsciously) is something that transforms the direct vertical motion of pressing a key into something else in order to detect a keystroke. Rubber domes over membranes don't do that, and instead translate motion of the key being pressed down onto the top membrane to press it against the other - in theory at least. In practice the mushiness of the rubber allows for a little overtravel and doesn't result in direct 1:1 translation of the key travel motion to the membranes, but that's more of a side effect of the properties of rubber than a design consideration.
I think the way a switch mechanism transforms the vertical keytravel into detecting keypresses can be used to categorize switches as mechanics, semi-mechanical, or otherwise if people can agree on what constitutes a transformation and how many and what kind of transformations constitute a switching mechanism being considered mechanical or otherwise.
Again, that just doesn't cut it. What about switches that have the contact motion vertically instead of horizontal? Or if I mounted the contacts from a Cherry MX switch vertically instead of horizontally, would it then cease to be mechanical? It's also very vague on what that would mean for Hall effect, capacitive, magnetic valve, etc. switches.
@@Chyrosran22 nah mate, he mean that if you can't smoke weed, and type at the same time, then it isn't mechanical fam
I have been using your definition "What we mean by mechanical keyboard is a keyboard in which the actuation happens approximately half-way of the key travel" and added my own "which must be at least 3 mm (~0.12 inch)", for months now, and it works very well, most of the time.
When I want to explain to someone why I prefer "mechanical" keyboards and what I mean by this, the "actuate before bottoming out" and "plenty of travel" points convey most of what I consider essential. It then becomes obvious to them why rubber domes over membranes and scissor switches are not considered "mechanical", even if most of the time people had not realized that they had to bottom out, sometimes pretty hard, to actuate the switch - but they understand when you point this out.
Some keyboards that do not fit the definition are still pleasant to use (some rubber dome over membranes produced in the 90s are fine, some laptop keyboards are absolutely usable), it's just that we do not call them "mechanical".
The mid-travel actuation is really important, as well as the travel length. These are the reasons why we love keyboards that feature both properties, even if these properties alone are not enough (it is still possible to create a really crappy keyboard that fits the above definition).
Interestingly, musical keyboards - pianos, organs, synthesizers, ... - also share both properties (at least the decent ones). No keyboardist would accept to have to bottom out to get a sound - that would get rejected right away.
It's an imperfect definition, and there will be exceptions, but I do not know of any better concise definition, so I thank you for introducing it.
Thank you! That cleared up a lot for me. I just subscribed.
What if it were defined by the capacity of the switch’s design to actuate before bottoming out?
My theory is that this video is actually just a very roundabout introductory overview of the Ship of Theseus, the problem of the Heap, and the Beetle in the Box philosophical thought experiments.
food for thought indeed, I've no doubt this will cause some interesting discussions in discord
I hadn't thought too deeply about the idea, but the way you took this concept and ran it though the wringer, I do have to agree: Mechanical definement by basis of actuation method is a bit mad.
I still think that there's something very important in your 'partway actuation' approach. I'd be quite confident on replying to family and friends that ask about mechanical keyboards that they are those 'whose switches are designed in a way that allows for partway actuation, and are most often built and set up in such a way - although you could choose to build or modify the switches so that the actuation is at the very bottom of the key-press, like most widely available office keyboards require you to do'
I was waiting for this since the razer ornata review
I think my personal best definition would be something that actuates midway through. Because not knowing anything at all about mechanical keyboard, that's the one thing that got me interested in it
Maybe the definition of mechanical keyboards may be that: "They are keyboards that aren't made JUST with a membrane and rubber domes."
digital keyboards tho
crispy space agency just add "moving parts" to the definition
I'd also specify the exclusion of keyboards that are just a membrane and nothing else
whatever definition you land on, someone can always make something that lands in the middle. As long as it's intuitive and catches most cases, I'd be ok with it.
For me? springs.
Has individual rubber switches that feel great? ok, not mechanical. I'm fine with that.
Has a single sheet with sewn-in springs that feel awful? sure, mechanical. I'm not getting it, but it works on springs.
@@MadsterV as Thomas said though, the best idea would be to give up entirely on the term "mechanical" and refer to older keyboards as "vintage" and newer ones as "enthusiast"
@@plazasta no. Immediately when you get into this hobby you learn that's inadequate. Old Soviet terminal keyboards are built to military specs, and will last long after we today are all dead. The same years, Eastern European clones of ZX Spectrum have really awful keyboards, often can't be repaired. Same vintage (or same degree of newness, depending on your point of view) Soviet military tech, you want to qualify as "mechanical", No one wants to call even the original Speccy keyboard, "mechanical". Both are "vintage", though.
Fantastic video!
honestly I think that the rubber dome-less definition works. I don't count dome with slider as mechanical
as for the capacitive touchscreen ones, I think there should be a level of common sense, it has to move downwards when you press it.
Honestly, I think the best thing would be to just say what the switch type is. Microswitch, foam and foil, buckling spring, hall effect, etc.
Very nice video, thanks!
@Chryosan22 What about defining a threshold for key travel distance?
What switch is the one on your intro?
You forgot the definition, "Because I said so."
This is the most philosophical video I've seen in a year.
Goddamn you spoil me with long ass videos..
Just the way I like it!
btw keep up the good work
Do you know if Mitsumi ever made keyboards for Compaq? I have an old Compaq keyboard which I once used as a testbed for retrobighting techniques. It's switches look exactly like the ones you showed here. It's completely distroyed (had been before I got it, most of the rubber... uh domes .... are gone and so are some of the keycaps)
Yes, Mitsumi made Compaq-branded KPQ boards, with switches just like the ones I showed in the video.
@@Chyrosran22 Interesting. Where did you get the info?
@@GeoStreber I found one ages ago at the uni.
@@Chyrosran22 Well it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere. Deskthority wiki for example doesn't mention Compaq-branded Mitsumis for example
@@GeoStreber Yes it does! :) deskthority.net/wiki/Mitsumi_KPQ-E99ZC
Don’t know how it took so long for this video to crop up for me. I’ve probably viewed 50 of your videos before buying my Unicomp Ultra Classic over a year ago.
Anyway - great job here! Wonderful content and very thought provoking.
I think often about how arbitrary it seems to call a membrane keyboard “not” mechanical. Obviously, it is a machine. It has parts that are assembled and designed to move repeatedly to perform a task. It’s not organic, it’s manufactured (by other mechanical things, no less).
All said, I still prefer using the Unicomp, when noise allows. It’s apparently the machine for me.
Thanks Thomas, I now have more clarity about my confusion! Based on various definitions, apparently my Filco Majestouch 2 UK ISO 105 keyboard, with Filco double shot keycaps and Cherry MX Black key switches, is at once mechanical and not at the same time. It's like Schrödinger's cat, dead and alive at the same time until observed, or rather experienced. Wondering how many Topre, Optical, Hall Effect, and Buckling Switch users are also feeling the same way around now. ;-)
I feel like I"m listening to Jemaine Clement talk about muh keyboards. It's so pleasing.
I almost never use the 'M word'. When the subject comes up I say that I like big loud clicky keyboards that are built like tanks, though I'm starting to also like a few other types.
I think the consensus is " are mechanical, are not mechanical, everything else is a gray area." Your "actuates partway down" is definitely the best actual definition I'm aware of, though.
Nice video I enjoyed it a lot
Thank you :) .
I hate linear keyboards until I tried a cheap knockoff cherry black switch and it felt so nice. I love the heavy feel when typing cause it’s assertive but there are rarely any good gaming keyboards with black mostly just cherry mx red brown and blue. I tried brown ages ago and liked it. Should I get knock off blacks or cherry brown. I want to buy a apex 7 which are superb keyboards from what I heard. What switch you recommend?
i happen to like mechanical keyboards but like the old ones since they are built a whole lot better. some of the old keyboards certain models are hard to find or are expensive. what i want to find are keyboards like a model F and the model M. the only thing i have come up with that is even close to an ibm model f or m for that matter is the cherry blue switches i have in a logitech g710. what would u suggest i look for in a keyboard like an f or m that is at least a ps/2 keyboard
1:08 what keyboard is that?
you could kinda make this argument with almost any word
like, whats a "door" ?
an entrance to a building? is a window a door? if i break a hole through your wall is that a door? does it have to have hinges? sliding doors dont have hinges. what if its not the entrance to a building? is a gate to a fenced off area a "door"? what if you burn a house down but the door still stands and can open and close properly, but most of the houses walls and roof are completely missing? is that still a door? its not an entrance to a building anymore
at the end of the day, words are just tools we use to convey practical meaning, when i say "door" you can picture a door, probably all kinds of doors, and you know what the point of a door is
at the end of the day our goal is always just to communicate our ideas effectively as we can through the obtuse and imprecise medium of language. So if you want to tell someone that a keyboard is "mechanical" but arent sure if it qualifies, it might just be better to tell them the practical benefits of the keyboard, like if its more responsive or satisfying to use. Basically it just comes down to what you said at the end; "Who cares if it adheres to some random definition anyways?"
tl;dr: it doesnt really matter just use whatever typey thing gets the words down good
Could you please tell me what kb is the one at 1:25?
Razer Ornata
I knew he would upload this after talking about the Ornata!
This is a late contribution, but I think you touched on something important near the end: the term "mechanical" is useful to describe how a keyboard feels.
Perhaps this would actually be the best definition of a mechanical keyboard -- a keyboard that "feels" mechanical? This would likely include everything that one would like to include (I think Topre feels more or less mechanical, for example), while excluding the common rubber dome keyboard.
The only problem are the "mechanical" switches that don't feel mechanical. On the other hand, any definition has outliers that are hard to define, and there's always an exception that proves the rule...
I explained exactly this to a friend the other day. Mechanical being opposed to solid state, such as a mechanical drive vs a solid state drive. All keyboards are mechanical excluding solid state ones. I suppose technically defining it would be more about what you exclude rather than what you include. Essentially, the way I understand it when someone says mechanical is "Any keyboard that is not straight bottom out feel typically to mean a dome of some kind over a membrane or some sort of solid state simulacrum of a physical keyboard, such on displays of keyboards or visual displays." My personal definition is that a mechanical keyboard would be any keyboard that includes more than two parts between your find and the actuation. This includes all contactless switches I am aware of as well as topra, foam and foil and ibm switches. Think about it, straight up rubber domes rely on you pushing a keycap which pushs a dome which makes direct contact to a membrane, those weird "My First Keyboard" style contacts are a sheet of plastic that pops up and down to make contact. Smart phones use just your finger for conduction. In other words, if you remove the keycap and can push directly on a single mechanism that directly contacts and returns all in one piece then it really isn't "mechanical" Topra you push on a dome that pushes down a spring that makes contact; Not sure if this holds up 100%, but I think it's at least a better way of defining it than others and has more to do with "mechanism of operation" and is material independent. You could also say that it "must include a spring force that is separate in operation from the actuation mechanism." IE define in terms of complexity of the mechanism.
But Thomas, what if i like the corona leaf springs?
Why should the classification of mechanical keyboard/keyswitch be limited to one criteria? What other things are classified by only one criteria? I know things like planets for instance, have several requirements that must be met before they can be considered as such. Why should this be any different?
Very good video.
You know maybe some day you could delve into making a video where you target people who are interested in mechanical keyboards but dont know where to start
I already make a whole series of videos like that, called Quick Keyboard Tips! But you can already probably tell why I stopped doing them at some point :p .
Could you extend the final definition, to say 'the mechanism has the ability to actuate anywhere along the travel without fundamentally changing the design'? Or even just 'does not *require* bottoming out to actuate'.
The first one doesn't really work, because you don't FUNDAMENTALLY have to change most designs to make them such that they actuate on bottoming out, just slightly change the shape of some contact or piece of plastic. The second one has more merit, I think, but you can apply reverse logic to this to fail it. Some dome with slider switches don't require bottoming out, while others do, but the mechanism is fundamentally the same. It makes no logical sense to qualify one and disqualify the other (except for practical purposes of course).
@@Chyrosran22 Very interesting, didn't really think about dome with slider switches not requiring bottom out. I do agree with your line of thinking though, I think the term 'mechanical' is only essentially good for describing a certain 'feel' that the majority of people would agree is a desirable one. There seems to be every combination of method to achieve an actuation, so I wonder if it would be an interesting idea to do some sort of mechanical rating. Maybe certain elements could be considered 'mechanical' and others not, and you could deduce some sort of measure for 'how mechanical' a switch is from that. I know it's completely arbitrary, just a throwing ideas out because I can :D
@@malenky4057 heh, sure it makes sense to rate them, but you might as well go all out and rate them on quality already then ;) .
Nice discourse on what defines mechanical keyboards. I do have a feeling that people who use the term use "mechanical keyboard" as a compound noun rather than "mechanical" as an adjective to "keyboard", which is where all of the confusion lies. If you were to use "mechanical" as an adjective to "keyboard", then just about every keyboard that contains moving parts of some sort should probably qualify. But if "mechanical keyboard" is taken as a compound noun, then I also agree that people can and will define what it is based on seemingly arbitrary criteria. What they do have in common is that 1) people stand by keyboards they consider "mechanical keyboards" and 2) they are superior to those that are not considered as such.
For myself, a decided non-enthusiast who is a little bit curious, I would consider something like "commoditized replaceable keycaps" to be a defining characteristic of a mechanical keyboard: I can purchase key caps separately from the rest of the keyboard and apply them as I see fit, and I can transfer them from one keyboard to another keyboard of substantially different construction. Of course, this definition is dumb, arbitrary, and excludes keyboards that are prized by the community simply because of something like "no longer being manufactured", and it says nothing about the details that enthusiasts obsess over.
All in all, I believe that mechanical keyboards are defined descriptively rather than prescriptively - they employ certain specific parts that are made by these certain manufacturers, specifically excluding those that are not on a specific list that changes over time. The rationale for including and excluding certain parts are entirely subjective and arbitrary, sure, but it seems like people tend to put the same parts in their list, so I presume parts found in a lot of peoples' lists define the mechanical keyboard of today...
If you are still looking for material for a top 10 list, might I suggest both top 10 best build quality and top 10 worst build quality keyboards?
For me mechanical movement is perfectly clear, like in the suspension of a car you can count springs and triangles or leafsprings but not the bouncy effect of the tyres due to the airpressure. Is it so difficult?
That's not a definition, that's a gut feeling :p .
@@Chyrosran22 That is the difference between scientists, engineers and mechanics.Some like to make the world so difficult where is is perfectly clear for 98% of the practical group (Thats imperial: one fry short of a happy meal)
Nobody can give a definition of mechanical but everyone knows what you mean when you say it. Non-mechanical = the cheap rubber domes we're all familiar with, touchscreens, projected keyboards. Mechanical = everything else, everything "desirable" but 90% of the time people just mean Cherry MX.
I've never actually thought of this, mostly because i am new to the "MK" fandom and didn't know there were so many different switches that had such a particular set of parts to it.
Having watched the video to the end the only definition of mechanical keyboard i could come up with is:"A Keyboard in which the switches are composed of multiple parts specifically designed to convey the user a specific feel: linear, tactile, clicky or any combination of the three. As long as the parts used for the actuation of the switch are not limited to just pushing in on a rubber dome to stop electric current flowing trough a PCB, it is considered Mechanical Keyboard"
A bit long winded, my original thought in fact was to exclude older switches which are not manufactered anymore since the term got more popular recently AND they are the most problematic: They may include a rubber dome as the actuating method, but also contain different "mechanical parts" so excluding the "pushing of a rubber dome to stop electric current flowing trough a PCB"
as an actuating method for a mechanical keyboard was out of the question. Then again, cancelling the history of the "mechanical keyboard" by ignoring the existance of these historical switches would just be dumb, and quite unrespectful to the pioneers that made the mechanical keyboards we have now possible.
what about "if it uses a rubber dome DIRECTLY on the key" or something along those lines?
By that definition dome with slider switches are mechanical just because the slider isn't part of the stem. It makes no sense xD . And again, touchscreens etc.! ;)
You're about to offend the PCMR crowd with your logic and facts.
Amen brother
The conclusion should be declared in a podium like an important speech
What about hardware in which its switches are not entirely rubber? Is this what makes a mechanical keyboard, or I have holes in this definition?
You could argue that's already the case for rubber dome keyboards already. Besides, there are metal dome keyboards that work exactly the same as rubber domes. And how about if they stuck a random bit of metal foam somewhere in the switch, would it suddenly be mechanical then?
Here's my definition for switches:
A 'membrane' switch is a switch wherein the stem of the keycap directly interacts with a rubber dome, which interacts with a membrane below.
These are usually plagued by a large amount of mush, though it is not a requirement
mecha-membrane and mem-chanical switches fall under this, as their keycaps directly touch a rubber dome
A 'digital' switch is one that has no moving parts.
touchscreen, digital, and projected keyboards
A 'Mechanical' switch is anything that does not fall under the previous categories
In practice, Mechanical usually refers to a physical keyboard or switch that is not a 'membrane' switch as described above, as such I feel my definition of mechanical keyboard is sufficient
TL;DR:
A "Mechanical Keyboard" is a physical keyboard where the keystrokes are not registered by the stem of the keycap directly interacting with a rubber dome.
What are those switches with the clips on them? What are the clips for?
What bit of the video are you referring to exactly?
@@Chyrosran22 at 4:12 you show a switch at the top which appears to have a clip and a coord attached to it. I was wondering what those type are and what the cord and clip are for
@@LeWpD model f switch, it's a keychain and not from the board itself
@@sonicase ohhhh got it thanks. haha
I think the definition is about the complexity of the switch. To call something a mechanism it should be a bit more than pressing down a contact on a contact pad against the force some rubber or simple spacer exerts. it there is a click, metal part (not just a thin coating on a foil) that significantly changes it's position, that's more like a mechanism. it's about the heft of the movement. You said multiple times, the mechanism does not care what material it is made of. I think it does. If it is a mechanism that is supposed to last a few times, that material should be more than just rubber, plastic or foil. Of course even a lid on a tupperware is some kind of mechanism by its dictionary definition, but not in a sense that matters here. "Mechanical" Keyboards is short for 'Complex, long lasting mechanism switch keyboards of a certain quality'. At least to me. There are some rubber keyboards that say they are 'mechanical' because the keycaps hit the mounting board just at the right moment so you have some tactile feedback. I would say, yes, this adds complexity, and is a mechanism (but a bad one) - it does not improve lifespan. So it is mechanical-like but not really. and i think most switches you mentioned are in my definition (That should be) and most of the ones you don't want are out. So just include 'quality' in the term 'mechanical' and we are good... :)