FAQ: "Spookydood, why did this take so long!?" Well, originally this was planned for a Mid-December release. However as I describe in this video's conclusion, that video was VERY VERY BAD. It was focused on this very unfunny Shark Tank bit that at the time I thought was hysterical. It wasn't. Just before Christmas I kind of had to decide whether to delay it or not, and I figured a later video is better than a rushed/bad one. (Somewhere Mr. Miyamoto is smiling right now). "Spookydood, the black border/CRT filter is annoying" This is the first video of the new year, a year in which I hope to completely overhaul my channel. The CRT filter and black borders aren't necessarily permanent, I was just trying something for this video. I kinda like them. That being said I'm continuing to evolve and trying to improve the quality of my content each video. I'd also like to incorporate the Spookydood character in more unique ways. You know, really establish a strong brand. "Are you going to disappear again?" No. One of my goals this year is to upload every single week. And if I miss a week, I STILL have to make the video. That means there's going to be about 52 videos uploaded this year. Yes I'm serious. No they won't all be Deltarune. Thanks for watching, and look forward to more uploads very soon!
Another Crack Theory of note: Deltarune is (to a degree) similar to Homestuck :V Namely, Gaster fuctioning similarly to Lord English (another Skeleton, who embodies Time, instead of Space), and has his band of Aspects/Minions. Gamzee, Lil Cal, AutoResponder, Doc Scratch, so on and so forth. The first two are actually what we DO have to compare to right now: A Purple Clown who's Seen Too Much, and knows the Truth of his reality, and treats it as if it's a game. You could even make a VERY strong comparison, comparing their themes (The Circus and The Carnival). Less strong, but similar for Spamton. Blinged Out Puppet, which contains/can contain a Soul (Versus and Big Shot). And theoretically for Ch 3? Autoresponder, or AR. A Digital copy of Dirk whose main job is to just respond to messages while Dirk is busy, has serious issues with "not being the real Dirk" and such, eventually merged with Equius (who'd also be another Aspect of LE)
You know that part where you talked about how in the future somebody will just be able to experience the whole game at once made me realize: I'm gonna miss this period of the Deltarune fandom, we really should just enjoy this while it lasts. The full game releasing is going to feel bittersweet to me
Honestly, I don’t think water theory should be called a crack theory. In fact, it shouldn’t be called a theory at all. The game literally connects water and darkness together in multiple ways on numerous occasions. Unless Toby just abruptly stops doing this in future chapters, water theory should be taken much more seriously. Of course, I’m not saying that every single theory that uses water theory as a tool should be considered true.
Water Theory is basically just... normal analysis of Symbols in Storytelling. Like... thats just how Synbols work. Imagery used to represent a greater idea.
@@borbitol What's the theory here though? That Deltarune uses water symbolism? That much is already true. That it uses water symbolism in relation to darkness? That much is already true. We can make theories *from* those two facts, sure, but the whole thing about Deltarune using water symbolism while talking about darkness is not really a "hypothesis" more than literally just analyzing Deltarune's storytelling.
I didn't realize being a "crack theory" was a turnoff for some people Whenever I hear the words crack theory I get excited because I expect to hear something really out there and creative and fun to think about ^^ Thanks for making this video, it's pretty good 🙂
Me too! Crack theories are so fun and full of creativity. Which people love to call "leaps in logic," and I find that incredibly sad. What's the point of fandom if we're not being crazy and goofing off? Anyways. What's your favorite crack theory? And I don't just mean Deltarune. Mine is a Genshin one: Sucrose is connected to the ancient dead kingdom of Khaenri'ah. It's so silly and kind of useless because Sucrose is a side character with less than 30 minutes of screentime but I love it and I love her so. Yeah. Lol.
@catdownthestreet Mine is funnily enough the Woody theory I just love the idea of Toby Fox randomly foreshadowing this on his Tumblr with ominous songs and probably laughing as he did it 😆 I also like to add to the crack theory that Toby could be foreshadowing Toriel burning down not-woody because he kept blazing all of his Toy Story posts, and then making blazing posts about blazing those posts. Noelle froze the computer so Toriel could give the TV screen burn
I think that in my mind, crack theories are not meant to be true: they're just "it would be so funny if that happened" and I have issues when they're trying to pass as a "real" theory (but that may be a linguistics différence about the meaning of "crack")
The thought of playing deltarune for the first time in 10 years time and being able complete everything in 2 days is terrifying. There was reddit post in r/Undertale couple weeks back, asking if you had to, would you rather delete UT or every UT AU. To me, Undertale isn't the 10 hours I spent playing it in 2016. It's the thousands of hours I spent obsessing over sans OCs, the countless edgy Chara fangames and art, the theories the youtubers, the comic dubs, the animations, and how UT is one half of what got me into programming. (Same as you, I'm glad noone will ever see my earlt UT fan games) So when the results of that post on reddit were overwhelmingly AUs, I was shocked. UT would not be what it is to me (and what I had assumed to be most people) without AUs.
I don’t know how, but this comment made me remember how i got introduced to Undertale. I saw a in-game screenshot of Omega Flowey on Google+, went “WHAT IS THAT” in pure 2010 internet language and emoticons and spent several minutes trying to figure out what i was even looking at. And then i watched the videos that Jacksepticeye uploaded on Undertale.
Just saying, it would be cool trying to piece together an unknown game called undertale based on the countless fangames derived from it if the base game was ever gastered across time and space.
@@derekhansjimagine an ancient computer with the last copy of undertale that couldnt be uploaded or transferred it would be the Unusual Golden Frying Pan of devices
its "whos that mike guy spamton was talking about? guess well see it up ahea- oh hi!" vs fan headcanons and theories and fanart and fansongs for a character referred to canonically only by name for multiple years
Ok but think of it this way, even if all of undertale aus were to suddendly dissapear, and nobody remembered them at all, i am confident all of those creative people out there would come up with at least 90% of them again, those ideas would be born again no matter what, "undertale but the monsters are actually mean! (Underfell)" , "Undertale but the roles of the main cast swaped! (underswap)" , "Undertale but space themed! (outtertale)" , etc. But if you completelly erase Undertale, maybe the aus would still be fun but you dont really have a base to relate them to, like, yeah underfell would look cool but those are just characters, not an evil version of some other character. i get where you are coming from tho
This is more of a popular headcanon tham a crack theory, but I also like the one that says Mayor Holiday is one of those freaky looking deer monsters that you pulled the christmas ornaments off of in Undertale.
I love listening to all of the Deltarune theories and watching people like Merg play the fan games. It’s all in good fun. I think people forget that both Undertale and Deltarune started with a guy using his imagination to do the same thing on a Nintendo game.
one of my favorite theorists in the community is someone's tumblr sideblog where they post insane stream-of-consciousness gaster theories that are related to their own hyperspecific interpretation of him as a character. it's fantastic. i agree with almost none of what they said. but they're fun to read. sometimes that's all a theory needs to be
I try to judge theories not by how likely I think they are to be true, but rather how much I would enjoy it if they were. I dislike "Kris is dead" not because it's unrealistic but because I find it really upsetting. I like my own "Berdly is the knight" not because it's realistic but because it's really freaking funny
Yeah, like, Toby can get disturbing, but I honestly think that sounds too edgy for the sake of edginess. It takes away from the existential themes of Deltarune, themes of control and freedom. If Kris were dead, it would take away a big part of why I find Kris so interesting. I think Kris being compared to zombies and corpses is more characterization than anything else, Kris has always been weird, based on what we know.
literally same. like, i personally believe kris isnt actually literally controlled like a puppet by the soul/player but rather i interpret it as being more akin to how souls have been established to work by undertale, in which your soul is the source of your compassion and morality and empathy and such. if you, the soul, acts morally bad and evil, then kris does bad things, but if you, the soul, acts morally good and nice, then kris does good things. i think the removing of the soul is more about kris wanting to do things like eating the pie, slashing the tires to keep susie there, opening the dark world, but doesnt want to feel the guilt that comes along with it and doesnt want to be controlled by a moral compass in those instances. I thought of this at first bc to me the idea of the player puppeteering kris is just. kinda upsetting and overly depressing??? and imo seems polarizingly dark to the tone of the rest of the game even when put up against the secret bosses and snowgrave. not to mention it completely ruins all the fun interactions with all the other characters. also, it's just not now souls are established to work. there's no reason to assume that a human soul is any different from a monster soul in that. why go through all of that lore on how souls work with asriel in undertale only to completely toss that and make it completely different in deltarune? especially when you consider that deltarune was planned before undertale. (also, i know there's significant evidence against this, but there's also significant evidence for it and i think its completely probable)
Yeah that kind of theory, i.e "x is dead and you're playing a zombie"/"x is dead and this is them moving on"/"x is dying in a coma and this is a dream" etc are all just really boring concepts to me. Regardless of how much evidence or how likely to be true they might be, I just don't like them
This is why I don't like the theory that no matter what we do Kris will still hate us for controlling them in the end. Even if we do good things and try to make them happy too. Not only would it be a very unsatisfying conclusion, it would make me dislike Kris as a character and also would seemingly rewrite the entire moral of Undertale as well.
It's gonna be so strange in the future when Deltarune finally is finished and we've hyped up Gaster as the big overarching mastermind type and then he just turns out to be just some nerd in a basement geeking out about the idea of the universe being a simulation. I hope this idea both is, and isn't true.
When you mentioned how someone will be able to play the entirety of Deltarune within 2 days, and that won't be the Deltarune we're all experiencing right now, you know what that reminds me of? Gravity Falls. It reminds me of my own experience as a 10 year old watching Gravity Falls, making theories on Bill Cipher's role in the story and his motives, making predictions on how the plot and how it will progress, with nothing but breadcrumbs of secret codes and background details. Someone sure as hell can binge Gravity Falls in like 2 days, but they'd miss the experience of waiting for that episode analysis video, that decoding the ciphers video. One day that's going to happen to whatever Dan Salvato is cooking with DDLC's meta story. One day that's going to happen to the Pokemon cross-generation Faller subplot. One day that's going to happen to Deltarune. So I'm glad I'm right here and right now experiencing it this way, making theories, seeing different perspectives and interpretations and coming up with my own conclusions.
As an avid hater of the Oberon Smog theory you make some incredible points. (Imo the main problem I have with Oberon smog is how much the believers insist it’s canon)
Yeah tbh thats my main problem with a lot of "crack theories" too: people insisting they are the only possible explanation/are literally canon and presenting theories/headcanons as fact to others. But thats an attitude problem that would be irritating regardless, rather than really being the fault of a theory- the wilder ones prob stick out more because their weird smug forcefulness clashes so blatantly with the visible weakness in the reasoning thats supposed to justify it.
@@pancakes8670 Basically the theory that gersons dust got on a hammer, and that hammer got into a dark world somehow, creating a flowey-like situation where he holds the memories of gerson, but is a distinctly different person. The biggest problem (Not counting how confusing the whole premise is; we know his hammer is in the light world, buried under his grave.) is that it somehow involves a darkner creating a fountain, which has many issues (Like how he could even get to the library or old classroom, if he’s stuck in a dark world somewhere.)
I feel like a lot of this "problem" comes from the fact that different types of content all get lumped together as "theory videos" even though they arent at all the same. For example an analysis video has a totally different style to it than a speculation video. There are Videos which basically just recap the lore thats said in the game which some people might not have seen. There are analysis of of subtext that are basically bulletproof and accepted as fact in the community because its just logical. There are actual theories, where evidence is gathered and a hypothesis for future lore is formed. And lastly theres the crack theories or pure speculation videos which are at best "what ifs" and at worst have literally no evidence behind them and are just obviously wrong. But they all get called a theory. So if one person wants to see a video thats well evidenced but sees a just for fun theory he will not like it, and vice versa the person that just wants smth fun to think about will not like someone that goes "ermm aksually, according to this thats not possible". At the end of the day this is just about having and managing different expectations for different content.
yeah this is a lot like i was thinkin. lots of things get called a theory, but the definition of a theory relies on its ability to be applied to greater things! if you cant believably do this from the get-go then it might be best to qualify it as an analysis or speculation and stuff.
The only bad theories are ones that can be proved wrong with what we currently have. Example: My friend thinks the dark world’s are a shared hallucination between Kris, Susie, Noelle, and Burghley. This can be disproved with the simple fact that burghley is injured/dead after snowgrave in the home world
This has honestly motivated me even more on a fan project of mine. It isn't DT, but a long-form fanfic thing, and I've consistently wondered if I'm straying too far from things, but now I see it differently.
The main parts of the theory is how much she seems to hate humans, the deleted blood sprite and how she says everyone bleeds but another monster asks what it's like to be made of blood, and her broken home life. Many think this means she may have a human parent who abandoned her
I don’t like how you’ve made a false dichotomy where “safe theories” are boring and unimaginative, while “crack theories” are fun and full of imagination. In fact, separating all theories into two camps at all simplifies things too much. For example, saying that “Susie is Gaster” is undoubtedly a crack theory, but grouping it together with something like Woody Theory feels wrong, since Woody Theory actually takes what DR has already established into account, while “Susie is Gaster” has absolutely no evidence. On the flipside, safe theories can be really compelling. Andrew Cunningham’s theories are about as prudent as you can get, but the way he goes about it is by methodically finding the most likely answer to a question, which can result in a really interesting conclusions, even if it means upending theories that have less evidence (the Gaster Leitmotif video is the best example of this). Safe theories aren’t safe because they cling onto surface-level conclusions, they’re safe because they’re actually able to provide plausible answers, which (to me) is the point of theorizing. Most of them just so happen to tread lightly when it comes to speculation for obvious reasons.
Yup. I think we just need a different word for "crack theories" to make the distinction more obvious. They have their place but calling them theories is misleading since a theory by definition is based on much more concrete evidence (Theory of relativity in physics, for example) Maybe hypothesizes or something along those lines, since that points to their speculation while still basing them in the evidence that leads to them.
There is a difference between a Scientific/Science theory, than your average internet fandom theory. I do agree that safe theories shouldn't be grouped as boring and unimaginative. But the rest I do disagree, there is some people that take theories seriously (LIKE YOU) but then there is other people that look at theories differently. Is just about having fun and using your imagination.
I think theres a large difference between how some people see deltarune theories. Some see it as genuinely trying to guess how the story will go and others see it more as entertainment/fanfiction and I think theorisers should make it clear which one of the two it is
I remember when Jaru made his Oberon Smog theory, but to me, the name being an anagram wasn't presented as evidence, more like a fun idea of what his name might be if the theory were true.
Yeah that makes sense because like, the name is deeeeeply unconvincing and probably is what turns a lot of people off it, its SO tortured and “looking for something that fits”
@@mintw4241 I hadn't previously realized this is what came of the theory. Kind of ironic, as i remember the rest of it seemed well thought out, or at least interesting if anything.
@@mintw4241The problem is that when you take the name away (and it really is a stretch in and of itself, the connection between the name and the Dark Worlds is borderline hallucinatory) you're left with basically nothing. The theory has none of its own evidence. Basically everything that makes it somewhat believable is evidence that is better and more realistically utilized for Alvin being the Knight. Oberon Smog reads to me more like a vast misreading of the subtext of Alvin and Gerson's role in the story being used to cherry pick for a predetermined answer rather than a natural theory.
I don’t dislike Jaru’s theories because they are ‘Cuh-raaaazy’, I dislike them because they create a vision of Deltarune which just sounds like a disjointed bleak melange of misery porn with a post-it note reading ‘Toby’ll make it work’ slapped on top. Also him wanting a psycho-lesbian Noelle storyline.
i'm okay with most of his theories, but the thing i don't like is how he seems to really like the idea of some snowgrave route creepy abusive relationship happening with noelle
@@MossMothMyBeloved Translation: "I dislike how within the theories I observe everyone suffers and it's just a major downer, with the points used to formulate it being decently loose and often formulating a bleak endgame depending on certain actions." I personally think his theories are a good bit of fun in how they formulate a different idea of a narrative by stressing certain aspects over others, but I can get it isn't everyone's cup of tea. Either way hope that helped :)
Personally I think the ending is always gonna be the same, but the way you get their and the way it effects the characters will be different. The roaring will always happen and the prophecy will always come true, but depending on your actions certain characters might not develop, certain friendships may not be made, etc.
The way I interpreted it is that the game is telling that to Kris and not the player. Kris’s choices don’t matter because we are controlling them. To be fair the game also goes against this in the parts where they rip their soul out.
i honestly just enjoy seeing all the ways you can slam random puzzle pieces together, there's a lot of things that could happen still so you really can just go crazy with theories really, it's just a different way of sharing hype for me maybe some people genuinely care about the game ending the way they want to with like a vessel fight where gaster calls you a slur in a touching earthbound halloween hack reference or something, but im enjoying overthinking the game until more of it comes out and then i play it and overthink it more
@@olivia7782 the song "THE HOLY" sounds remarkably similar to the first part of it. when asked about it the song on his Tumblr, he replied, "AT SHADOWS EDGE, SHATTER THE TWILIGHT REVIERE." which also sounds similar to a, the prophecy that ralsei says, and b, to the tweet he made after having the fever dream that inspired deltarune. not to mention, toby likes reusing songs.
@@roseboil7713 Ohhhhh yeah thats understandable then. Huh. Feels odd to imagine he would use it for Deltarune considering its big role in Homestuck's musical ecosystem and how heavily its intertwined with Doctor, but you don't just go around replying to tumblr asks with spooky theory-bait like that unless you have SOME sort of plan in mind
I mean, it does make sense. It would be the third time toby directly uses songs from his prior works on UTDR. Fourth, if you count the Nightmare Knight influence in The World Revolving.
I agree with this for the most part, but I do think people need to chill with over analyzing everything tobyfox touches as having to do with deltarune. He can’t shitpost or even WORK on projects with other artists without people bringing it back to deltarune. I do agree though, that theorizing on things not yet “tackled” in the game should be supported and celebrated. The game isn’t done yet, and it’s possible future chapters will completely tear the “patterns” fans have seen apart.
3:33 i refer this as the episode 3 dilemma which means after two initial episodes it takes literally forever for the third episode to release, the audience runs out of ideas, loses their sanity and we have crazy predictions that all end up mega wrong. I have already fallen for this in TPOT(the power of two)
There are times when I disagree with theories not because I think they’re impossible, but because I don’t like the narrative that we would get if they were right. ‘Kris is the Knight’ is a perfectly valid theory and there’s plenty of evidence to back it up. Despite this, I dislike it because the mystery of the Knight is so compelling to me and it feels like revealing it as early as the second chapter would ruin it, for me personally.
I think that kris is the knight, but i also agree that the mystery being revealed so early would be boring. Thats why i also believe that the identity of the knight is not the real mystery, rather its why the knight is opening the dark fountains. Personally I think kris is responsible for Dess's disappearance, and they think that opening the fountains is going to bring her back somehow
im in the camp of Kris is the knight but i can see why it be a let down since its straight forward and a good who is it mystery is fun but to me it would open more possibilities and questions that would make it interested. such as How long has Kris been the knight? When did they become the knight? IS there only one or more? Did they know Ralsei before going into the school closet? Did Ralsei know all along and has he been trying to convince Kris to stop while we've been watching Susie? Why are they doing them knowing it will destroy the world? Did he tear open even more portals before the schools closet? if they did create the ones weve entered did they do it for themselves? Susie? Dess? Or even for us? Kris being the knight is simple but it could also lead to more tantalizing mysteries ahead that can make up for the simplicity.
As both an deltarune and a fnaf fan I envy the fnaf fandom because they theorize about anything and everything regardless of how ridiculous it sounds, but the deltarune and Undertale fandom always have the same 3 gaster knight Theory. I still love them tho
That's because the story of the fnaf games is made up on the way and gets constantly retconned, as a result there is nothing solid to grasp onto. The story of Deltarune, however, is carefully planned and doesn't get retconned with every new chapter.
Y'all know people can get enjoyment in something despite its flaws right? Lmao (I mean Kingdom Hearts and Blazblue fans exist and their stories/arcs are objectively not very well written!) you don't have to mention the sotry; there's no Fnaf fan that'll go to war for that we know the story is convoluted, retconned, and not planne dout. The thing is we don't gaf because the ongoing mystery keeps us coming back so you can keep that to yourselves
I think FNAF is on the opposite end of the spectrum. With DR, you have a few facts, so elitists demand you make conservative theories that stick only to the safe spaces that the crumbs of story we have fit into. Meanwhile, with FNAF, there are so many facts, some of which contradicting each other, that you literally cannot make one single fully consistent theory (as the games themselves aren't) and yet elitists complain that you're nitpicking information because the hex color of pixel 26x961 in frame 28 of the minigame Porky Worky is actually Wine Red and not Rose Red and you are obviously ignoring this crucial bit of contradicting information on purpose to make your theory sound plausible!!! (When, in fact, it is impossible to make a decent FNAF theory nowadays without having to ignore at least one or two aspects unless you go super super safe a-la "William Afton is Springtrap")
To submit a crack theory of my own: the Ch3 weird route may physically damage the TV. Here's my thought process- CH2's weird route relied on a pun: Freezing Computer programs (which might we might be able to fix if we get Tasque Manager to help but thats a different theory) The TV looks like an old CRT, which can get damaged if you leave an image on it too long. By burning the image into the screen, leaving a "ghost image." (unclear if it means Napstablook will show up. Ghosts without bodies can only be damaged by magic anyways...) There's been the theory that Kris being downed will prompt toriel to be more agressive, but that also lines up with how we beat her in undertale. We don;t do anything at all. We just spare and wait. If Kris is targeted by the enemies, we sit in the same spot and take damage. Burning the image of the heart in the center of the battle box. Actually now that I think about it a bit more I think that Napstablook will show up, and get burned into the tv. Because the only physical evidence of the weird route in Ch2 was Berdly (and Noelle's reactions to it). Ch 1 not having a true weird route also kinda makes sense with this? You're dealing with board game pieces and playing cards. There isn't much you can do to damage them except by just. Physically damaging them. The darkners running away feels more like you're just flicking game pieces across the floor with Susie than anything permanent.
Also, the image is BURNED on the TV, and Torial (at least in UT) has flame powers So like noelle kills berdly in Ch2, toriel will kill napstablook in Ch3
I will say, part of the reason that people trash Jaru's theories because he trashes others' in return. Like straight up calling people who believe that- based on the themes set on Ch. 1 and 2- the Soul Kris has belongs to/ is being controlled by the *player* and not some super mega ultra secret third entity- stupid and uncreative. I find that really obnoxious and unnecessarily mean, especially since he has that whole "I take offence to people comparing my theories to fanfiction" thing going on. Which. I think is definitely a losing battle tbh. That doesn't make being mean to him right, but it's just my personal findings When it comes to MatPat, I hope if he *does* go back to Deltarune before retirement he actually. You know. Doesn't misgender Kris the entire time in the video. "Sans is Ness" sounds stupid as hell but to be FAIR, Toby's Earthbound Halloween Hack literally replaced the main character (Ness) with Varik from Brandish... and then implied that Varik was still Ness anyways
This made me look back to the time id watch cringy undertale comic dubs, i tought that Chara had an official boss fight, and that Frisk was a girl; ahh weird times.
i feel like when it comes to unserious theories made for fun or as a fanfic it shouldve been named as "headcanon theories" instead of regular theories, because like it or not some people just want to see serious theories to explain plot points and plotholes, but since silly theory videos and serious theory videos are all under the same category, it only takes watching the video to know if its gonna be serious or not, because at times the title can simply be "the mystery ralsei is hiding" and the video in the halfway point is explaining that ralsei was a type of plant only found in texas
Yeah, that and the way certain theorists love “burying the lead” until ten minutes in to maximise their watch time for a deeply unserious theory that would otherwise make people shrug and click off
Hnstly I loved this video. I'm one of those people who at this point just watches Deltarune theories to get more content in a way. The amount of hours of Deltarune theories I've consumed are COUNTLESS, but I never expected to see a theory that had ALL the answers. There's something so magical to creating your own theories, or watching other people theorize and then having your expectations completely subverted for good, having some crazy reveal that no one considered. To me, it makes the experience even better, and most of the ideas that theorists bring to the table are really interesting, I've found so many great creators because of Deltarune theories, they're probably my favourite part of the fandom.
your right people are far to toxic and rude when it comes to crack theories, debunking these theories is completely unnecessary, the fact of the matter is that if you disagree with a theory the only thing that needs to be said is "I disagree". People should be more focused on just making their own theories then trying to prove that other peoples are wrong. But what I think is really interesting is that a lot of anti theorists will often time use logic on the same level as the crack theorists closest knight theory being a perfect example, a anti theory made for the sole purpose of debunking Kris knight, with evidence and logic that's on par with the average crack theories. I do feel like a issue with the fandom over all is that people will make assumptions and then treat them as foregone conclusions and will often shut down anyone who has a different take, example of this being people believing that Kris needs the soul to live and that this is why they put the soul back in, I for one don't believe this at all I think that Kris could live without the soul but the reason why they put it back in is because they need it to seal the fountains. Its fine to come to a personally conclusion but you shouldn't try to shut ideas down just because they don't align with your interpretation of things. Honesty I feel that people that spend there time in the fandom trying to debunk everything are only setting themselves up for embarrassment as while yes 99% percent of theories are going to be wrong that's just how these things work at the end of the day with everyone making every possible guess there will be those 1% that are right. like yeah a lot of chapter 1 theories were wrong but at the same time almost every notable thing that happened in chapter 2 had a theory about it pie theory was a thing queen theory was a thing Noelle being a party member theory was a thing, and all the people who believed them where right. And the thing is making any correct theory is very impressive even if you also made other wrong theories, if you make 10 different theories and only one of them is right that's still a huge win. And if you make 10 theories and their all wrong then its really not a big deal because almost everyone does that, but if you assess the correct answer and decide that its wrong and that your going to go and make a big deal about proving its wrong and make a big post or video where you make the clam that its literally impossible, only for the game to come out and show that it was not only possible but was correct the whole time. Now that is really embarrassing.
I dunno, you've gotta at least be willing to tell people their reaching, if we just validated every random theory without pointing out flaws I could see people taking big misconceptions and building entire branchs of lore around something that's not even true, kinda like the Game Theory video that says Deltarune is just a game being played by Kris and Susie, like yeah you've got some evidence for it but it looks over the massive counter argument that there's no reason Susie would play pretend with Kris right after saying she's going to literally bite their face off Also, MatPat isn't and never was a Crazy conspiracy theorist, his older videos were more about applying actual science to video games, That Sonic video you mentioned is a great example of this, the video isn't "Sonic is slow because funny", the video is that we calculate speed by measuring distance over time and when we apply that to Sonic Unleashed he's really not going that fast when you do the math
Remember kids, Rose Quartz=Pink Diamond WAS a crack Steven Universe theory. We sit in a timeline where Sans (and Papyrus) is now "Ness", anything is possible at this point.
Game Theory mentioned! Fr though, theories are made in hopes that we might get something right eventually, just because it seems dumb now doesn't mean it will be forever. Plus people are allowed to make theories and have fun, which is exactly what the Sans is Ness theory was about.
this is a peculiar video to me. I dont engage in UT/DT theory discussion enough to have a stake in any one theory, and I dont personally qualify woody theory or oberon smog as crack theories either. But i DO think a theory's value is its believability, actually! Like, a theory's job is to theorize. Thats not to say a theory's value is dependent on whether it ended up being correct-- at least not in fictional media. But the definition of a theory literally has to do with its plausibility or rationality because it is meant to serve as an explanation of something that could then be used in practice. If a theory isnt believable then it has no practical application, which is what theories are for. I think there are time where the framing is the issue. That is, sometimes something really shouldnt be called a theory because it's better served as an interpretation, analysis, thought experiment, fanfiction or au fanfiction. Those are all wonderful things to be, but they dont all fulfill the need or value of a theory necessarily. And often theorycrafting does involve those other things, which i guess... is simply what the remaining value of a work will BE when that work stops being believable as a theory. So i would agree that these things are all very interrelated, but a *theory's* value AS a theory will always be its believability because that directly affects its ability to be applied to other things.
THANK YOU! It's refreshing seeing someone with such a reasonable, nuanced take here. Of course people tend to regard "crack" theories as lesser compared to theories with more supporting evidence behind them!
This is my precise problem with this video I think. I forget exactly where in this video, but Spooky argues against calling these theories "fanfiction," but I feel like I don't understand why at all. If I were to describe crack theories at all, I'd say they were fanfiction. It almost comes across like he thinks these insane theories are "above" fanfiction, but what the hell is wrong with fanfiction? I'd describe them as the same thing, taking ideas from the text, and twisting them in any way you want, even if it's ridiculous.
I feel like the actual problem comes from the fandom has kinda lost the plot about what a theory really is, so you essentially have two different groups with entirely different concepts of a "theory" treating it all as the same thing. You have the more traditional theorists, who want to actually figure out whats gonna happen, and the people like the author of this video who are more abstract with the concept of a theory, making things that are closer to personal interpretation of what may happen and treating theories more like fanfiction which is to be enjoyed as its own work even if it fails to actually predict what whill happen (although obviously there's overlap between the groups). These two ideas are perfectly fine on their own, but once you have these two groups applying what they want from a theory to all theory videos, thats when you get the problem. Traditional theorists treat the more for-fun theories as if they're traditional theories, and try to debunk, so that the fanbase can get closer to figuring out what will actually happen. This of course makes people like the maker of this video upset, as to them theories have worth outside of practical application and they just want to share interesting ideas with the fan base.
One thing I think people need to remember ehen taking abput the game and judging theories, on top of everything in this vidso, is that this game, at its core, is a homestuck shitposter's fever dream.
I appreciate this video and your perspective on theory gatekeepers. I completely agree, creative freedom is being stifled. Keep on theorizing people! I love hearing everyone’s takes and ideas about the amazing experience of Deltarune.
I think it’s just good for everyone to remember. We’re all here to have fun and enjoy Toby’s work, share our interpretations and stories based on his work, and enjoy the story that he and his team slowly unfold to us.
I love this video sm, it genuinely put a smile on my face. The way you worded how us as a fandom and as people enjoy and consume this game and the media based on it, made me think about just how special this all is to me. I love this game, I love this fandom, and I can’t wait to see what we come up with next ;))) Excellent Video SpookyDood!!!!
I can't stand Mattpat's channel now because of the times he uses grizzly real life murders in his theories (off topic i know), but at the time I really did find the "Sans is Ness" theory really fun, and not to be taken too seriously. Great video btw, people shouldn't be afraid to make fun and interesting theories
8:32 Oberon Smog being an anagram of of Gerson Boom is not evidence, it's the theory itself. Oberon Smog is not a name provided by the text, it's a name proposed by Jaru as the hypothetical name for the hypothetical character. The *actual* Strongest piece of evidence for this theory is that in Undertale Gerson was a renowned knight known as the Hammer of Justice, and is the only character in Undertale that mentions the name Delta Rune. Oberon Smog being an anagram of Gerson Boom means nothing. The name was proposed BECAUSE it is an anagram Gerson Boom, not the other way around. Jaru already had a theory that darkners can be formed from the ashes of a lightner, and that the Darkner would have a name that is an Anagram of the original person. This has some obvious problems, like the fact that the only character whose name is an anagram of a lightner has the name of a lightner that isn't even dead (unless we're meant to believe that the entire town is delusional about Asriel being alive) My problem with the "Crackpot Theories" is that most of them aren't theories at all, they're fan fiction. Theorycrafting, in my eyes, is about conducting a deep analysis of the text, and debating the author's intent. The theory of Lightners resurrected as Darkners may have notable holes, but it's still a decent theory because it brings up some important details of the text (Ralsei's uniqueness among darkners, and his thematic/visual connections to Asriel) that the text itself is trying to lead us away from.
16:06 As long as people aren't going overboard, what's wrong with criticizing the writing? People criticize bad fan fiction for the same reason -- characters acting out of character when it's supposed to be taken as though it takes place in the same universe. It's not wrong to point out these flaws, especially when the premise of the game is that these are supposed to be the same characters post-chapter 2.
its been quite a while since ive actually seen woody theory and i dont remember much about what it is but i do remember that i was pretty much convinced, and hoping so badly that it does become true
I genuinely cannot understand looking at the masterpiece of a fan-game, no, masterpiece of a GAME that is Undertale yellow and hating it because of a timeline issue
I just wanna say I LOVE crack theories. Even though they aren’t usually the most believable, they are by far the most fun to think about. Theorising is one of the most fun and interesting parts of games like Deltarune so I don’t think people should be shamed by the community just because they came up with a unique idea
I'm so glad someone finally said this. Also MatPat has a deltarune theory in store and I'm so excited for it's release. But knowing his luck, chapter 3 and 4 will drop right before or after he posts his theory XD
This video inspired me to finally crack down and make my own deltarune analysis video about Kris, and to also finally join a deltarune discord and talk about theories and try to make friends. I said I believe that Kris was the knight and they essentially called me stupid and laughed me out So I'm not making the video anymore lol
I really enjoyed this more introspective discussion of the nature of theory crafting and community sentiment to it. This video is very thought provoking, which is rare in this current Internet landscape, so I'm probably going to write a novel to get my thoughts out. I hope I can contribute to this discussion. tl;dr: "Theory crafting" in the UT/DR community often blurs the line of serious analysis and wild speculation, and I think better distinction between the two can help better general discussion around it. I think I agree with the general point of the video that people need to chill out about the more out-there theories that pop up. It's valid to criticize, but at the end of the day all this stuff is for fun and it's truly impossible to get the full picture. One of my favorite UT/DR fan-works is Paper Trail specifically because it's just someone's interpretation of the rest of the game made into a web-comic. It captures the full story line that Deltarune as a game could, but it's a very well-written and well-drawn, creatively rich interpretation and I love it for that. That being said, I think there is a slight disconnect between how people view what a "theory" is, and I think I can add to this discussion as someone who doesn't always enjoy crack theories. The science part of my brain tells *me* that a theory is a scientifically provable explanation of something, and you don't create theories by starting with a conclusion and working backwards. There's nothing really wrong with that if your goal is to answer a question that was never posed, but I view that as speculation rather than proper theory crafting. That might seem like a very minor, semantics-based distinction, but it's one that I think is valid. People have different perspectives on this stuff and derive enjoyment from it in different ways, and I think that discontent has developed because both lines of thinking are placed under the single "theory" umbrella. I personally make that distinction because I enjoy finding hard evidence buried within the game and drawing conclusions based on that hard evidence. It's why Andrew Cunningham's videos are my favorite within this sub-community. He takes what we can tangibly see in-game and extrapolates that information into an easy to understand, believable observation about it and the larger narrative. I think that properly delineating between both perspectives could do good for making lore discussion more pleasant. That isn't to say I don't enjoy speculative thinking, I've done it myself. It's a great way to breathe life into the relatively short demo we have and keep us entertained until we finally get more answers in the next release. Just don't be surprised when people that have a more analytical perspective treat what you package as a "theory" with more scrutiny. And don't take what people on the Internet say too personally. It's not good for you. I also think I have more of a substantial answer as to why "Sans is Ness" was and continues to be so negatively received. Firstly, it was created *after* the FNAF videos were in full swing and the "loremaster" persona was already established for Game Theory moving forward. Mat Pat's fanbase at the time was also fairly rabid and very frequently *did* take the more conspiratorial theories as being actually serious, and Undertale fans viewed "Sans is Ness" as creating a misinformation problem for their community. This isn't helped by the fact that Mat Pat never really seemed to make the hard-theory vs fun speculation distinction. They're presented in the same way regardless of his intention. I don't think I could ever tell when Mat Pat was supposed to be "in character" compared to him just being himself on his livestreams. That obviously doesn't mean he deserved the overbearing backlash he got from it - realistically, no one should take even the serious Game Theory episodes totally seriously - but it was a really bad theory, and rational criticism was definitely warranted. I've noticed a sentiment in the comments about judging a theory by its enjoyment over its validity, and I don't really think that's a good metric to go on. I derive enjoyment from objectively bad movies, shows and games, but I would never base an objective measure of quality around my own personal enjoyment. There's a place for both, and, again, proper distinction I think would help mitigate those issues. I also find your point about Undertale Yellow to be a little misplaced. Deltatraveler I'm willing to excuse because it's basically an extended shitpost (and it really isn't that unrealistic to believe that a teenager would say the "f-word" even if she normally wouldn't), but UY is trying to be a direct prequel to its source material, and any continuity inconsistencies are objectively flaws. Any rational critic wouldn't view them as major, or even particularly significant - the game is excellent - but there's nothing wrong with making that criticism. If people are being overly pedantic with tiny issues, ignore them. If people are making level-headed observations about poor consistency, that's still valid.
Sometimes I feel like fun isn't allowed in this community, like, Oberon Smog and Ralsei is dead theory are so oulandish but imagine if it was real? Cool, right? No, it's not for you because it wasn't Toby that came up with it.
@@shellpoptheepicswordmaster755I assume they meant Asriel is dead theory, which suggests that Kris accidentally killed Ralsei and lied about him going to college? It’s very very out there
@@shellpoptheepicswordmaster755 Asriel is Dead theory, TLDR: Kris accidentally killed Asriel and absorbed his soul Threw the dusty clothes on the storage closet (this got darknerfied through castle town's fountain, leading to Ralsei, who is basically Flowey Deltarune) Kris lied to everyone in hometown, telling them that Asriel 'went to college', and starts studying the occult with catti to try to revive him or whatever Kris starts being posessed by spooky Asriel ghost (So the player ain't a thing, it's all just Asriel's revengeful spirit)
This is an interesting perspective, and one that for me is affected by what kind of fandom background one is from. Firstly - I've figured out over the years that anger and hate just isn't worth it. Making demands makes people dig their heels in, and almost never convinces them. I'll just leave partway through and not comment or share if I don't like it. Nobody is putting a gun to my head or demanding that I watch something. In the age of the Algorithm, lack of engagement is entirely sufficient as "punishment" (if that word even applies here). If I really don't like it, I consider it my own responsibility to provide a more interesting alternative: I write a good deal of fanfiction. Oberon Smog and Dead Asriel fans can have fun away from me. But, like... for me, my instinctive negative reaction to the "crack theory" is an _immune response._ The line between "theory (entertainment)" and "theory (prediction)" is drawn in different places in different fandoms, and I come from places where theory (entertainment) was routinely misinterpreted by large parts of an often immature audience as theory (prediction). What I'm afraid of is the Sherlock Truthers, the shipping wars. I've seen people send death threats to authors over not writing the "correct" ending. I can see a version of myself who would believe that disposing of such arrogance was a public service, of sorts. I am not that person, but I could have been, and that "could have been" is very dangerous. On a more personal level, I come from certain highly interactive ongoing fandoms where the author was plugged-in enough that anything you said that got popular enough ran the risk of becoming true, regardless of your original intention. A poignant Homestuck fanart of a character in a wheelchair? Character's a wheelchair user now, and not even a well-researched one, just one that ended up the butt of physical comedy. Blaseball fans experiment with the voting system to pull a character back from the dead? Sure (but the character that got resurrected is killing others to pay her Debt). People demanding that Sans come back to Glitchtale? An opportunity for a second heartwrenching death scene. In these fandoms, anything could become canon, and so I was initially unfamiliar with the notion that there even _was_ such a thing as theory (entertainment). To me, for a long time, _everything_ looked like theory (prediction), regardless of how insane it originally sounded. Toby Fox is not this level of plugged in, but since he comes from Homestuck, which did have this tradition, one is given to wonder.
Honestly, i agree - we are too harsh on crack theories. Until recently, people have been quick to beat down these kinds of theories, when instead we should be having conversations about why we disagree on certain theories. It's created a pretty toxic environment in some servers, and its why I don't talk as much on ACDS anymore.
I left that hellhole called ACDS and my life has became better, my academic success has been increased by a lot, less stressful life, more free time. That place fantasizes a geniunely bad person (sbeve) every fucking day for fucks sake. Leave it for your own good, they are not worth it. What did i expect from a Homestuck fanboy's discord server anyway...
I think its cus people present them with the exact same bombastic youtube clickbait DELTARUNE SOLVED attitude that grows tiresome after the like second time you ever hear it
Like people who think iceee is gonna be plot important are like “heres my wild insane theory guys” while Zombie Gerson Anagram Darkner fans are like “this is totally simple and logical and just as reasonable as “undyne will appear in chapter 3” theories”
The part where you talk about game theory really struck me. How did we forget Game Theory was always unhinged? It was so fun to listen to a dude trying to convince you of the most insane video game conspiracy theories and somehow we lost that along the way...
that's not true though!! it was applying math and science to videogames! sometimes tongue-in-cheek because real world logic is obviously different from the videogame's own internally-consistent logic, but very very few things were unhinged like "peach is bipolar" or "sans is ness". Sonic was slow because we measured it and he's literally slower in his debut game than mario is in HIS debut game
@@ferociousfeind8538 But it was always framed in a crazy YOU WERE LIED TO way to seem like a conspiracy theory. Yes, game theory made an effort to teach actual science and useful things using games and a conspiracy theory tone. There are many unhinged theories, saying mario is the bad guy, peach is dead, Solid Snake is a stoner... Even when it wasn't unhinged he was still trying to find, a lot of the time, stuff that directly contradicts what we know about certain games.
Its always been to strange to me how a game series thats messages are about positivity and acceptance has managed to breed a very loud group of negative, hateful people that have to always be right. Its sad, really. I wish they could be happy and enjoy the series like everyone else does.
I think the issue here is that people are okay with theories that basically are fanfiction, but they just want people to admit that's what it is and label their videos as such. I think it really is a classic case of that one metaphor i keep going to "If you go to an Italian restaurant and order a calzone, but get tortellini alfredo, even if you love tortellini alfredo and it is some of the best of it you have ever seen, that doesn't change the fact you were expecting to and had every right to expect a calzone". You feel me? Also I think another reason people don't like the Kris/Azzzy is dead theories is a more basic and gut level "I don't want these characters I was told are alive and care about to be dead" thing. Like I admit a big reason I don't like Azzy is dead theory is cause I am just that hyped to see a version of Asriel who got to grow up and live a full life instead of getting merc'd at age like, 8 at the oldest. Also i think one reason Woody theory is made fun of is cause it's called Woody theory and given we have graffiti from the Roman empire that are full of dicks jokes and the like I think humans will never stop laughing at dicks jokes or stop making them
that and omega ice-e will appear but it the bossfight lasts one digit turns because ralsei gets so mad that he immediately unlocks fire magic and burns it (its only weakness)
The reason why the hollow knight fandom told him to shut up was because a lot of people just saw his theories and took them as 100% canon, being annoying to everyone else saying that it was the only true answer. Wich pissed people off, imagine if people actually believed the sans is ness theory and told everyone that you should just shut up about any other interpretation on sans or undertale.
I have very few fully crack theories but one I want to be real is Ice-E being a super secret boss that's on the same level as like Sans was in terms of difficulty. Specifically I think maybe the eggs will unlock that because if anything screams "not too important or too unimportant" is the weird vaguely cryptid like restaurant mascot Toby Fox created that keeps coming up repeatedly but never in a particularly plot relevant way.
You weren't kidding when you said you were trying a new style. I like it! It looks pretty cool! Also (almost forgot to say) BUT THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS! It feels like there's this growing crowd of people who have to turn every theory discussion into a lore competition where you flex your knowledge of "conventional" theories instead of actually trying to explore different possibilities! It's nice that this problem is being addressed now
My theory is that their is a decent chance that gaster has a lot less to do with delta run then people think. think about it, their have been no references to gaster really except in some points where his theme is in a song (like noel). it could easly be another charicter we have yet to see is doing a lot as well and we just dont know it. my instinct as a story guy is to think Ralsei (or something Ralsei adjacent) because their is a lot surrounding him that is veerry intresting and sus.
No Matter How Good Or Bad The Theory, It's Still Just A Theory We Just Need To Enjoy The Fantasy We Came Up With And (Unfortunately) Just Wait For The Real Answer. (And Don’t Impose This Fantasy On Everyone Else “Just Because”) Great Video And Great Take On The Whole Thing.
Honestly Kris = Knight theory IS fun, and would make it so that we, player, the protagonist, are controlling the Antagonist, which to me sounds... is fun the good word? But I wouldn't outright want it to happen, UNLESS Kris is A Knight and not The KNIGHT.
when i was into steven universe i thought the theory that rose quartz and pink diamond were the same person was the biggest crack theory ever and i hated its guts but when it was revealed to be true i ate it up like it was apricot chicken i thought it was the best thing ever. crack is good sometimes
This video was absolutely needed though, the most fun theories are the ones that go completely crazy. Even though some (or maybe all) of them won't be true, it's still fun experience to read them/listen to them. I've seeing a lot of negativity lately in this community and it doesn't help anyone
I have a few different thoughts on this video, and I'll give them all, but the one I want to start with is that I just find the premise as a whole kind of... Odd? Coming from you specifically. What I mean to say is, having watched your other videos I've considered you to be the most anti-theory theorist in the community. To some degrees I agree with, sure, your debunk on Skies Forever Blue's connection to Deltarune is still a favorite of mine, but some degrees are a bit much for me. Your video "Deltarune Theory Review 1.0" includes a couple minute long segment essentially asking people to stop theorizing on whether or not Kris is the Knight, saying it's ruining the story because Toby intends us to think Kris is the Knight in that moment in the story. I always found that a very odd and staunchly anti-theory stance for a theory channel to be making, especially since Toby put the game out knowing it would take a while for the next chapters to be made and that people would spend time thinking about it. Which made the comparisons in that video to pausing a movie to think about the mystery fall flat for me, and even then, I don't think that ruins a movie, either. I don't want to bloat this part of the comment with examples, but you can see how I find this to be an odd angle coming from you. I don''t think there's really anything wrong with people valuing theories based on their believability? Trying to figure out what will happen next is, generally, what people want in the theory space. If they don't care for videos they find unbelievable because they don't think the events projected are likely at all, that's well within their right. I can't say I'm desperate to predict what will happen next in Deltarune, but I do prefer theories that provide reasonable evidence and connections for their premise compared to ones that don't. Woody theory is crack, sure, but I wouldn't put it in the same ballpark as the Jaru's Asriel is Dead theory, because there really isn't any evidence against the Woody theory despite how out there the premise is, while Asriel is Dead has some glaring gaps in logic and even requires misinformation about Undertale to work. On the other hand, I think Oberon Smog is actually a very solid idea, but similar to what you said the fact that Jaru came up with the theory specifically to serve as foreshadowing in the grander narrative of Deltarune he envisions for the Asriel is Dead plotline kind of sours me on it. Cool name, though. I agree with your response to the statement "He's not a theorist he's a fanfic writer" being "So what?". but (And I'm not trying to single him out to pick on I swear he's just a good example for a lot of this) when Jaru's response to that question is to tweet out "Don't call me a fanfic writer I am a theorist" instead of embracing it, it's a bit... I don't know how to end this sentence so I'm just gonna segue into the next thing. Twitter is bad for everybody. A lot of this video just comes across as defensive of comments and types of people that in my time in the Undertale community I've grown very accustomed to ignoring. I think disengaging with vocal minorities and little haters is just kind of better for everybody. The vast majority of people I interact with in the Undertale community just kind of aren't the type of completely dismissive fan discussed in this video, and I think spending so much time interacting with that type of person has caused you to make a video defending things that like. There's no harm in defending obviously but it just doesn't seem really necessary? Because hey, people are allowed to be dismissive to a certain extent. I'd prefer if people weren't rude about it, obviously, but when people are rude about it I really think it best to just not engage like this. I notice that a good few of your videos are very focused on the fandom and its response to things, especially in that shipping video. Me personally I just kind of prefer to interact with and make theories about the work itself instead of battling with the fandom over what they think so much. Maybe I'm waffling a bit now, I don't know. I guess just, as a viewer, I like it more when you focus on Deltarune itself rather than fighting against what the fandom thinks or the long chunk of the Woody theory's runtime where you try to justify making a crack theory as if it's a bad thing to do instead of just talking about the theory. Which kind of brings me back to the anti-theory point. Undertale Yellow's (pretty major) timeline issues compared to Undertale don't at all detract from my enjoyment of the game and the experience of it, I agree with you on that. But they do detract from its stated intent to be a prequel to Undertale. Just thought I'd point that out, I don't think people are really trying to say the game is bad because of it. Sorry for how absurdly long this comment ended up, I do tend to be a bit overly wordy. I do hope to hear a response from you, but I understand if RUclips comments aren't the best place to hold a discussion, because well, they kind of aren't. I did appreciate your reply to my last comment, though! In conclusion, shoutouts to RV Pine and show us your fancomics Spookydood.
I didn't even know how needed this video was. I love crack theories, I love theories that make you think and consider the alternative. Yeah, you can judge a theory by how likely it is and you can judge a theory by how fun and well-constructed it is. Both can coexist.
oh god, yeah. Sans is Ness is a fantastic theory. Does it need to be true for it to be great? No! What matters is that a lot of care has been put into it.
One thing i dont like abt the deltarune community is that some people are too protective over it. this was the case with undertale when its fandom started to get big. People protected and threw rocks at everything that irritaded them. Like the story of undertale video. And i think its the same deal this time with deltarune too. One thing thats intresting is that the undertale fandom is more accepting. More chill rn in my opinion. So i hope that after some more chapters relase. People wont be this protective over a fictinal game.
i've disagreed and disliked theories before but i've never considered leaving a rude comment about it. i know Jaru had issues with people bashing on his theories and i was sitting there thinking, yeah i didnt like what he was saying so i guess this video is for me. i see now, that video and this one are for people who are more active in the community and try to shut down other people's ideas. im happy i never interact with "fandom" outside of theory videos and sharing my interests with friends because while i'm sure theres lots of good things about it, i only ever hear the bad things
i’m also not trying to say i’m better than other people for getting mad in a comment section, or for not interacting with my favorite media’s fans. i know how easy it is to give in to the frustration and say, no mr tuber this is how you’re wrong and you should feel bad for it
the deltarune fanbase is slowly approaching Lobotomy Kaisen tier and that scares me I NEED Tobyfox to drop those chapters man edit: I'm very glad you mentioned the concept of anti-theorists because I feel like they indirectly sap away half the fun when it comes to Deltarune discussion Now of course are some theories just plain dumb stupid and wrong? Lol yeah (Toriel is homophobic is still my MOST hated theory to this day I get angry thinking about it) But not all of them are. And the "crack" theories are often the most fun ones; Oberon Smog, Asriel's dust, and Woody theory are genuinely my favorite Deltarune theories that I hope are real I will defend Sans=Ness with my life because the internet saw a man having fun with 2 of his favorite series and jumped him for it (absolutely asinine I'll never get over that) Like oh? You didn't say a safe theory like "Susie has a bad home life" or "Dess is related to Gaster"? We're putting you in the contraption buddy. You're going in the machine
The "Toriel is homophobic" theory is so dumb. She'd have stopped the kiss even if it were between a man and a woman. Because it was very much not the time for intimate kissing, especially not infront of a child (even though said child have been through literal hell; which she had little to no knowledge about). She likely wouldn't have minded Undyne and Alphys kissing elsewhere. The fact that Frisk is referred to with neutral pronouns in Undertale, along with Chara in the same game, which is said by Toby Fox to be for ambiquity, it may very well still be that the kids are non-binary. Toriel is very well likely to be okay with queerness, having adopted children she deeply loved that didn't have a traditional gender identity. Her Deltarune counterpart also adopted a human child that is only referred to with they/them. Again, while Toby himself imply that's for ambiquity, so the player can insert themself, it's still probable Kris IS non-binary. Thus that would again imply she's okay with non-traditonal gender identities. She has a child she clearly loves that is like that. The religion in Hometown and likely most of the monster communities, and possibly humans', has an absence of sin according to Father Alvin. Sin as a concept is simply to control people, by demoninizing people as sinners to use them as scapegoats and leverage other groups to do the religious leaders' bidding. Which is why homosexual and transgender people have been so demonized through history and especially now. Without sin like that, Toriel would have no reason to be against gay romance. Rant over, two personal sidenotes: Being trans myself, I wish I lived in a place like Hommetown, with a mother like Toriel. I've been badly damaged by fosterhomes who seemed to make cruelty a sport. I'd have done all I could to make Toriel proud. And, if/when we see DR Asriel, he better be the gayest looking femboy or I'm going to riot
@@seekervaltriz9447 plus homophobic Toriel literally makes no sense if you think about it for 5 seconds and use Occam's razor "Oh I can't STAND those gays." "Nonbinary and nongender conforming people tho? Yeah they're aight" like?????
In my opinion, it's bad because it's clickbait, yes, the evidence is bad, but even worse is that most of the video isn't toriel is homophobic, though that could be seen as a pro@@seekervaltriz9447
It's not that you're being shunned for reading into your fave videogame is that you're just... changing it so much might as well be, well, a fanfic at this point. My biggest gripe with crack theories is the seriousness they're treated with while completely ignoring very important elements to take into account when analyzing media such as theme and motif and whatnot.
im glad i found a video pointing out that we're in the "insane theory" stage of deltarune, because this is the only way to even be close to knowing that your in "the good ol days"
I completely agree with you here. My personal theories are that gaster is misunderstood and is a good guy, and I think papyrus is the knight. Nevertheless I love hearing theories that are the exact opposite. At the end of the day I just love this game, and I love hearing other people be as passionate as I am about them, regardless of how crazy the theory is. I don’t care if I’m wrong at the end of the day (I probably definitely am), it’s just fun to think about. It’s always upsetting to see the vitriol in this fandom for theories people disagree with.
Imagine we spend all this time theorizing about Dess and her connections to greater concepts, then on some chapter, we get randomly stopped by an unidentified text box, then Dess comes into frame and is like: "Hey Kris! I come home after all these years on this stressful trip away from my family, and Noelle can't stop talking about these crazy dreams and this girl named Suzan for even a second. I know this is you and your... Weird friends doing... Whatever you weird peope do! And I'll tell you right now: keep her out of it, you weirdo!" Then unceremoniously walks away and we never see her again.
People REALLY forget this is just chapter 2, and we still don't even know if there will be 5 or 7 chapters. For all we know the knight is revealed at the start of the next chapter and the game even makes fun of us for theorizing so much.
FAQ:
"Spookydood, why did this take so long!?"
Well, originally this was planned for a Mid-December release. However as I describe in this video's conclusion, that video was VERY VERY BAD. It was focused on this very unfunny Shark Tank bit that at the time I thought was hysterical. It wasn't. Just before Christmas I kind of had to decide whether to delay it or not, and I figured a later video is better than a rushed/bad one. (Somewhere Mr. Miyamoto is smiling right now).
"Spookydood, the black border/CRT filter is annoying"
This is the first video of the new year, a year in which I hope to completely overhaul my channel. The CRT filter and black borders aren't necessarily permanent, I was just trying something for this video. I kinda like them. That being said I'm continuing to evolve and trying to improve the quality of my content each video. I'd also like to incorporate the Spookydood character in more unique ways. You know, really establish a strong brand.
"Are you going to disappear again?"
No. One of my goals this year is to upload every single week. And if I miss a week, I STILL have to make the video. That means there's going to be about 52 videos uploaded this year. Yes I'm serious. No they won't all be Deltarune.
Thanks for watching, and look forward to more uploads very soon!
Listen to no one. The filter is perfect.
Yo weekly uploads from one of the greats! Amazing! Just make sure to not drop in quality because of it!
Can’t wait! You’re very talented :)
Another Crack Theory of note:
Deltarune is (to a degree) similar to Homestuck :V
Namely, Gaster fuctioning similarly to Lord English (another Skeleton, who embodies Time, instead of Space), and has his band of Aspects/Minions.
Gamzee, Lil Cal, AutoResponder, Doc Scratch, so on and so forth.
The first two are actually what we DO have to compare to right now:
A Purple Clown who's Seen Too Much, and knows the Truth of his reality, and treats it as if it's a game.
You could even make a VERY strong comparison, comparing their themes (The Circus and The Carnival).
Less strong, but similar for Spamton.
Blinged Out Puppet, which contains/can contain a Soul (Versus and Big Shot).
And theoretically for Ch 3? Autoresponder, or AR. A Digital copy of Dirk whose main job is to just respond to messages while Dirk is busy, has serious issues with "not being the real Dirk" and such, eventually merged with Equius (who'd also be another Aspect of LE)
I like the CRT filter
The obvious takeaway from this video: One of Deltarune's secret bosses is going to be a monkey, and we just haven't seen it yet.
Kris had better have grabbed those bananas or they will be in *BIG* trouble!
@@SolibraeConfirmed that he will have two themes called "You're going to be in" and "BIG trouble"
True
HE HAS NO STYLE
"Yeah, this is big brain time."
You know that part where you talked about how in the future somebody will just be able to experience the whole game at once made me realize: I'm gonna miss this period of the Deltarune fandom, we really should just enjoy this while it lasts. The full game releasing is going to feel bittersweet to me
im gonna miss the wait between chapters so much
deconstructing everything
finding every little detail
it kinda reminds me of what it was like to be in the Gravity Falls fandom while that show was still airing
Literally this! It’s gonna feel slightly melancholic and bittersweet when this period ends. Just been glad I’ve been here for it!
Absolutely
hopefully this isnt toby foxes last game
Honestly, I don’t think water theory should be called a crack theory. In fact, it shouldn’t be called a theory at all. The game literally connects water and darkness together in multiple ways on numerous occasions. Unless Toby just abruptly stops doing this in future chapters, water theory should be taken much more seriously. Of course, I’m not saying that every single theory that uses water theory as a tool should be considered true.
Yeah, the water theory is less a theory and more just a basic thematic connection.
Water Theory is basically just... normal analysis of Symbols in Storytelling. Like... thats just how Synbols work. Imagery used to represent a greater idea.
A theory is a hypothesis supported by evidence. That's it. So it's surely a theory.
@@borbitol What's the theory here though? That Deltarune uses water symbolism? That much is already true. That it uses water symbolism in relation to darkness? That much is already true. We can make theories *from* those two facts, sure, but the whole thing about Deltarune using water symbolism while talking about darkness is not really a "hypothesis" more than literally just analyzing Deltarune's storytelling.
I didn't realize being a "crack theory" was a turnoff for some people
Whenever I hear the words crack theory I get excited because I expect to hear something really out there and creative and fun to think about ^^
Thanks for making this video, it's pretty good 🙂
Me too! Crack theories are so fun and full of creativity. Which people love to call "leaps in logic," and I find that incredibly sad. What's the point of fandom if we're not being crazy and goofing off? Anyways.
What's your favorite crack theory? And I don't just mean Deltarune. Mine is a Genshin one: Sucrose is connected to the ancient dead kingdom of Khaenri'ah. It's so silly and kind of useless because Sucrose is a side character with less than 30 minutes of screentime but I love it and I love her so. Yeah. Lol.
@catdownthestreet Mine is funnily enough the Woody theory
I just love the idea of Toby Fox randomly foreshadowing this on his Tumblr with ominous songs and probably laughing as he did it 😆
I also like to add to the crack theory that Toby could be foreshadowing Toriel burning down not-woody because he kept blazing all of his Toy Story posts, and then making blazing posts about blazing those posts.
Noelle froze the computer so Toriel could give the TV screen burn
@@CheesyLizzy That is truly hilarious. And understandable. It's a close second for me lol
I think that in my mind, crack theories are not meant to be true: they're just "it would be so funny if that happened" and I have issues when they're trying to pass as a "real" theory (but that may be a linguistics différence about the meaning of "crack")
"with the whole world watching toby fox gave birth to his second child" is my new favorite quote
COME WATCH ME PLAY UNDERTALE 2
and the baby was you
The thought of playing deltarune for the first time in 10 years time and being able complete everything in 2 days is terrifying.
There was reddit post in r/Undertale couple weeks back, asking if you had to, would you rather delete UT or every UT AU. To me, Undertale isn't the 10 hours I spent playing it in 2016. It's the thousands of hours I spent obsessing over sans OCs, the countless edgy Chara fangames and art, the theories the youtubers, the comic dubs, the animations, and how UT is one half of what got me into programming. (Same as you, I'm glad noone will ever see my earlt UT fan games) So when the results of that post on reddit were overwhelmingly AUs, I was shocked. UT would not be what it is to me (and what I had assumed to be most people) without AUs.
I don’t know how, but this comment made me remember how i got introduced to Undertale.
I saw a in-game screenshot of Omega Flowey on Google+, went “WHAT IS THAT” in pure 2010 internet language and emoticons and spent several minutes trying to figure out what i was even looking at. And then i watched the videos that Jacksepticeye uploaded on Undertale.
Just saying, it would be cool trying to piece together an unknown game called undertale based on the countless fangames derived from it if the base game was ever gastered across time and space.
@@derekhansjimagine an ancient computer with the last copy of undertale that couldnt be uploaded or transferred
it would be the Unusual Golden Frying Pan of devices
its "whos that mike guy spamton was talking about? guess well see it up ahea- oh hi!" vs fan headcanons and theories and fanart and fansongs for a character referred to canonically only by name for multiple years
Ok but think of it this way, even if all of undertale aus were to suddendly dissapear, and nobody remembered them at all, i am confident all of those creative people out there would come up with at least 90% of them again, those ideas would be born again no matter what, "undertale but the monsters are actually mean! (Underfell)" , "Undertale but the roles of the main cast swaped! (underswap)" , "Undertale but space themed! (outtertale)" , etc.
But if you completelly erase Undertale, maybe the aus would still be fun but you dont really have a base to relate them to, like, yeah underfell would look cool but those are just characters, not an evil version of some other character.
i get where you are coming from tho
My favorite crack theory is the one that says Mayor Holiday is actually a vigilante, explaining why she's always so busy and the crime so low.
this is canon to me in my heart now
This is more of a popular headcanon tham a crack theory, but I also like the one that says Mayor Holiday is one of those freaky looking deer monsters that you pulled the christmas ornaments off of in Undertale.
Thaaaats politics
Oh my god I love it
@@pancakes8670 gyftrots
I’m glad someone is finally talking about how just because a theory is wrong or a leap doesnt mean it’s bad. Great video :)
Agreed
I love listening to all of the Deltarune theories and watching people like Merg play the fan games. It’s all in good fun. I think people forget that both Undertale and Deltarune started with a guy using his imagination to do the same thing on a Nintendo game.
True
Based Merg Fan
Genuinely my favorite Deltarune theory of them all is Halfbread’s Ice-e theory, purely because of how absolutely insane it is.
Same
I am working on a theory vid myself based on connecting ICE-E, everyman, gaster, and the player
@@shadowspartanzeta7PLEASE tell me when/if that video is posted i need that theory
@@shadowspartanzeta7 Oh my gosh. Please let us know if you post it (or just part of it) anywhere, that sounds super stupid, in a good way lol
@@shadowspartanzeta71. WHERE.
2. another idea, a theory which treats every fanwork and theory as 100% canon
I appreciate it for what it is but I prefer thinking kris is an asshole on purpose instead of trying to defend the town. it's funnier
one of my favorite theorists in the community is someone's tumblr sideblog where they post insane stream-of-consciousness gaster theories that are related to their own hyperspecific interpretation of him as a character. it's fantastic. i agree with almost none of what they said. but they're fun to read. sometimes that's all a theory needs to be
pls tell me their username
I try to judge theories not by how likely I think they are to be true, but rather how much I would enjoy it if they were. I dislike "Kris is dead" not because it's unrealistic but because I find it really upsetting. I like my own "Berdly is the knight" not because it's realistic but because it's really freaking funny
Yeah, like, Toby can get disturbing, but I honestly think that sounds too edgy for the sake of edginess. It takes away from the existential themes of Deltarune, themes of control and freedom. If Kris were dead, it would take away a big part of why I find Kris so interesting. I think Kris being compared to zombies and corpses is more characterization than anything else, Kris has always been weird, based on what we know.
literally same. like, i personally believe kris isnt actually literally controlled like a puppet by the soul/player but rather i interpret it as being more akin to how souls have been established to work by undertale, in which your soul is the source of your compassion and morality and empathy and such. if you, the soul, acts morally bad and evil, then kris does bad things, but if you, the soul, acts morally good and nice, then kris does good things. i think the removing of the soul is more about kris wanting to do things like eating the pie, slashing the tires to keep susie there, opening the dark world, but doesnt want to feel the guilt that comes along with it and doesnt want to be controlled by a moral compass in those instances. I thought of this at first bc to me the idea of the player puppeteering kris is just. kinda upsetting and overly depressing??? and imo seems polarizingly dark to the tone of the rest of the game even when put up against the secret bosses and snowgrave. not to mention it completely ruins all the fun interactions with all the other characters. also, it's just not now souls are established to work. there's no reason to assume that a human soul is any different from a monster soul in that. why go through all of that lore on how souls work with asriel in undertale only to completely toss that and make it completely different in deltarune? especially when you consider that deltarune was planned before undertale. (also, i know there's significant evidence against this, but there's also significant evidence for it and i think its completely probable)
Yeah that kind of theory, i.e "x is dead and you're playing a zombie"/"x is dead and this is them moving on"/"x is dying in a coma and this is a dream" etc are all just really boring concepts to me. Regardless of how much evidence or how likely to be true they might be, I just don't like them
This is why I don't like the theory that no matter what we do Kris will still hate us for controlling them in the end. Even if we do good things and try to make them happy too.
Not only would it be a very unsatisfying conclusion, it would make me dislike Kris as a character and also would seemingly rewrite the entire moral of Undertale as well.
@@penntopaper9305Honestly true. But sadly it seems like that's the direction Deltarune is going in, which is why currently, I like Undertale more.
It's gonna be so strange in the future when Deltarune finally is finished and we've hyped up Gaster as the big overarching mastermind type and then he just turns out to be just some nerd in a basement geeking out about the idea of the universe being a simulation.
I hope this idea both is, and isn't true.
lol
When you mentioned how someone will be able to play the entirety of Deltarune within 2 days, and that won't be the Deltarune we're all experiencing right now, you know what that reminds me of?
Gravity Falls.
It reminds me of my own experience as a 10 year old watching Gravity Falls, making theories on Bill Cipher's role in the story and his motives, making predictions on how the plot and how it will progress, with nothing but breadcrumbs of secret codes and background details.
Someone sure as hell can binge Gravity Falls in like 2 days, but they'd miss the experience of waiting for that episode analysis video, that decoding the ciphers video.
One day that's going to happen to whatever Dan Salvato is cooking with DDLC's meta story.
One day that's going to happen to the Pokemon cross-generation Faller subplot.
One day that's going to happen to Deltarune.
So I'm glad I'm right here and right now experiencing it this way, making theories, seeing different perspectives and interpretations and coming up with my own conclusions.
Dude I remember making my own gravity falls crack theory because I didn't have access to the internet! It was so fun
As an avid hater of the Oberon Smog theory you make some incredible points. (Imo the main problem I have with Oberon smog is how much the believers insist it’s canon)
Yeah tbh thats my main problem with a lot of "crack theories" too: people insisting they are the only possible explanation/are literally canon and presenting theories/headcanons as fact to others. But thats an attitude problem that would be irritating regardless, rather than really being the fault of a theory- the wilder ones prob stick out more because their weird smug forcefulness clashes so blatantly with the visible weakness in the reasoning thats supposed to justify it.
What the fuck is an Oberon Smog
@@pancakes8670 Basically the theory that gersons dust got on a hammer, and that hammer got into a dark world somehow, creating a flowey-like situation where he holds the memories of gerson, but is a distinctly different person. The biggest problem (Not counting how confusing the whole premise is; we know his hammer is in the light world, buried under his grave.) is that it somehow involves a darkner creating a fountain, which has many issues (Like how he could even get to the library or old classroom, if he’s stuck in a dark world somewhere.)
I think Oberon smog is really cool
@@kaleeshsynth9994 That’s chill. I think it sucks ass but more power to you.
I feel like a lot of this "problem" comes from the fact that different types of content all get lumped together as "theory videos" even though they arent at all the same.
For example an analysis video has a totally different style to it than a speculation video.
There are Videos which basically just recap the lore thats said in the game which some people might not have seen.
There are analysis of of subtext that are basically bulletproof and accepted as fact in the community because its just logical.
There are actual theories, where evidence is gathered and a hypothesis for future lore is formed.
And lastly theres the crack theories or pure speculation videos which are at best "what ifs" and at worst have literally no evidence behind them and are just obviously wrong.
But they all get called a theory.
So if one person wants to see a video thats well evidenced but sees a just for fun theory he will not like it, and vice versa the person that just wants smth fun to think about will not like someone that goes "ermm aksually, according to this thats not possible".
At the end of the day this is just about having and managing different expectations for different content.
yeah this is a lot like i was thinkin. lots of things get called a theory, but the definition of a theory relies on its ability to be applied to greater things! if you cant believably do this from the get-go then it might be best to qualify it as an analysis or speculation and stuff.
The only bad theories are ones that can be proved wrong with what we currently have. Example: My friend thinks the dark world’s are a shared hallucination between Kris, Susie, Noelle, and Burghley. This can be disproved with the simple fact that burghley is injured/dead after snowgrave in the home world
Also, using a similar example: Kris can steal Noelle's watch in the dark world and keep it in the light world.
This has honestly motivated me even more on a fan project of mine. It isn't DT, but a long-form fanfic thing, and I've consistently wondered if I'm straying too far from things, but now I see it differently.
Do not look up deltarune kris kringle
You can't just say "Susie is half human" and not explain it.
The main parts of the theory is how much she seems to hate humans, the deleted blood sprite and how she says everyone bleeds but another monster asks what it's like to be made of blood, and her broken home life. Many think this means she may have a human parent who abandoned her
I don’t like how you’ve made a false dichotomy where “safe theories” are boring and unimaginative, while “crack theories” are fun and full of imagination. In fact, separating all theories into two camps at all simplifies things too much. For example, saying that “Susie is Gaster” is undoubtedly a crack theory, but grouping it together with something like Woody Theory feels wrong, since Woody Theory actually takes what DR has already established into account, while “Susie is Gaster” has absolutely no evidence. On the flipside, safe theories can be really compelling. Andrew Cunningham’s theories are about as prudent as you can get, but the way he goes about it is by methodically finding the most likely answer to a question, which can result in a really interesting conclusions, even if it means upending theories that have less evidence (the Gaster Leitmotif video is the best example of this). Safe theories aren’t safe because they cling onto surface-level conclusions, they’re safe because they’re actually able to provide plausible answers, which (to me) is the point of theorizing. Most of them just so happen to tread lightly when it comes to speculation for obvious reasons.
You make a good point
Yup. I think we just need a different word for "crack theories" to make the distinction more obvious. They have their place but calling them theories is misleading since a theory by definition is based on much more concrete evidence (Theory of relativity in physics, for example)
Maybe hypothesizes or something along those lines, since that points to their speculation while still basing them in the evidence that leads to them.
this articulated the issue i had, was watching and kind of going "oh thats not..."
There is a difference between a Scientific/Science theory, than your average internet fandom theory. I do agree that safe theories shouldn't be grouped as boring and unimaginative. But the rest I do disagree, there is some people that take theories seriously (LIKE YOU) but then there is other people that look at theories differently. Is just about having fun and using your imagination.
I think theres a large difference between how some people see deltarune theories. Some see it as genuinely trying to guess how the story will go and others see it more as entertainment/fanfiction and I think theorisers should make it clear which one of the two it is
I remember when Jaru made his Oberon Smog theory, but to me, the name being an anagram wasn't presented as evidence, more like a fun idea of what his name might be if the theory were true.
Yeah that makes sense because like, the name is deeeeeply unconvincing and probably is what turns a lot of people off it, its SO tortured and “looking for something that fits”
@@mintw4241 I hadn't previously realized this is what came of the theory. Kind of ironic, as i remember the rest of it seemed well thought out, or at least interesting if anything.
@@mintw4241The problem is that when you take the name away (and it really is a stretch in and of itself, the connection between the name and the Dark Worlds is borderline hallucinatory) you're left with basically nothing. The theory has none of its own evidence. Basically everything that makes it somewhat believable is evidence that is better and more realistically utilized for Alvin being the Knight. Oberon Smog reads to me more like a vast misreading of the subtext of Alvin and Gerson's role in the story being used to cherry pick for a predetermined answer rather than a natural theory.
I don’t dislike Jaru’s theories because they are ‘Cuh-raaaazy’, I dislike them because they create a vision of Deltarune which just sounds like a disjointed bleak melange of misery porn with a post-it note reading ‘Toby’ll make it work’ slapped on top.
Also him wanting a psycho-lesbian Noelle storyline.
i'm okay with most of his theories, but the thing i don't like is how he seems to really like the idea of some snowgrave route creepy abusive relationship happening with noelle
Can you translate "disjointed bleak melange of misery porn" into english?
@@MossMothMyBelovededgy horseshit
@@MossMothMyBeloved Translation: "I dislike how within the theories I observe everyone suffers and it's just a major downer, with the points used to formulate it being decently loose and often formulating a bleak endgame depending on certain actions."
I personally think his theories are a good bit of fun in how they formulate a different idea of a narrative by stressing certain aspects over others, but I can get it isn't everyone's cup of tea. Either way hope that helped :)
I never understood why people took "your choices dob't matter" at face value when it's the equivelant to kill or be killed, we are meant to fight it
It's said by Susie, which tbf does reject your commands
Personally I think the ending is always gonna be the same, but the way you get their and the way it effects the characters will be different. The roaring will always happen and the prophecy will always come true, but depending on your actions certain characters might not develop, certain friendships may not be made, etc.
The way I interpreted it is that the game is telling that to Kris and not the player. Kris’s choices don’t matter because we are controlling them. To be fair the game also goes against this in the parts where they rip their soul out.
i honestly just enjoy seeing all the ways you can slam random puzzle pieces together, there's a lot of things that could happen still so you really can just go crazy with theories
really, it's just a different way of sharing hype for me
maybe some people genuinely care about the game ending the way they want to with like a vessel fight where gaster calls you a slur in a touching earthbound halloween hack reference or something, but im enjoying overthinking the game until more of it comes out and then i play it and overthink it more
another crack theory that i LOVE is that penumbra phantasm is going to be in deltarune. the more you think about it, the more it makes sense, IMO
I'll be honest I never understood that one? But thats more confusion than dislike.
Is it just bc of the name or is there some other reason?
@@olivia7782 the song "THE HOLY" sounds remarkably similar to the first part of it. when asked about it the song on his Tumblr, he replied, "AT SHADOWS EDGE, SHATTER THE TWILIGHT REVIERE." which also sounds similar to a, the prophecy that ralsei says, and b, to the tweet he made after having the fever dream that inspired deltarune. not to mention, toby likes reusing songs.
@@roseboil7713 Ohhhhh yeah thats understandable then. Huh.
Feels odd to imagine he would use it for Deltarune considering its big role in Homestuck's musical ecosystem and how heavily its intertwined with Doctor, but you don't just go around replying to tumblr asks with spooky theory-bait like that unless you have SOME sort of plan in mind
I mean, it does make sense. It would be the third time toby directly uses songs from his prior works on UTDR. Fourth, if you count the Nightmare Knight influence in The World Revolving.
I agree with this for the most part, but I do think people need to chill with over analyzing everything tobyfox touches as having to do with deltarune. He can’t shitpost or even WORK on projects with other artists without people bringing it back to deltarune.
I do agree though, that theorizing on things not yet “tackled” in the game should be supported and celebrated. The game isn’t done yet, and it’s possible future chapters will completely tear the “patterns” fans have seen apart.
who up oberoning their smog
She oberoning my smog till i rune
*LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER*
She gerson on my boom till I Oberon smog
she Winging my Ding til i Gaster, the Royal Scientist
she gerson on my boom till i oberon smog
Human, I remember you're LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER...
3:33 i refer this as the episode 3 dilemma which means after two initial episodes it takes literally forever for the third episode to release, the audience runs out of ideas, loses their sanity and we have crazy predictions that all end up mega wrong. I have already fallen for this in TPOT(the power of two)
There are times when I disagree with theories not because I think they’re impossible, but because I don’t like the narrative that we would get if they were right.
‘Kris is the Knight’ is a perfectly valid theory and there’s plenty of evidence to back it up. Despite this, I dislike it because the mystery of the Knight is so compelling to me and it feels like revealing it as early as the second chapter would ruin it, for me personally.
I think that kris is the knight, but i also agree that the mystery being revealed so early would be boring. Thats why i also believe that the identity of the knight is not the real mystery, rather its why the knight is opening the dark fountains. Personally I think kris is responsible for Dess's disappearance, and they think that opening the fountains is going to bring her back somehow
im in the camp of Kris is the knight but i can see why it be a let down since its straight forward and a good who is it mystery is fun but to me it would open more possibilities and questions that would make it interested. such as How long has Kris been the knight? When did they become the knight? IS there only one or more? Did they know Ralsei before going into the school closet? Did Ralsei know all along and has he been trying to convince Kris to stop while we've been watching Susie? Why are they doing them knowing it will destroy the world? Did he tear open even more portals before the schools closet? if they did create the ones weve entered did they do it for themselves? Susie? Dess? Or even for us?
Kris being the knight is simple but it could also lead to more tantalizing mysteries ahead that can make up for the simplicity.
As both an deltarune and a fnaf fan I envy the fnaf fandom because they theorize about anything and everything regardless of how ridiculous it sounds, but the deltarune and Undertale fandom always have the same 3 gaster knight Theory. I still love them tho
I wouldn't be jealous of the fnaf franchise, it's a lot more poorly written than ut/dr
That's because the story of the fnaf games is made up on the way and gets constantly retconned, as a result there is nothing solid to grasp onto. The story of Deltarune, however, is carefully planned and doesn't get retconned with every new chapter.
Y'all know people can get enjoyment in something despite its flaws right? Lmao
(I mean Kingdom Hearts and Blazblue fans exist and their stories/arcs are objectively not very well written!)
you don't have to mention the sotry; there's no Fnaf fan that'll go to war for that
we know the story is convoluted, retconned, and not planne dout. The thing is we don't gaf because the ongoing mystery keeps us coming back
so you can keep that to yourselves
I think FNAF is on the opposite end of the spectrum. With DR, you have a few facts, so elitists demand you make conservative theories that stick only to the safe spaces that the crumbs of story we have fit into. Meanwhile, with FNAF, there are so many facts, some of which contradicting each other, that you literally cannot make one single fully consistent theory (as the games themselves aren't) and yet elitists complain that you're nitpicking information because the hex color of pixel 26x961 in frame 28 of the minigame Porky Worky is actually Wine Red and not Rose Red and you are obviously ignoring this crucial bit of contradicting information on purpose to make your theory sound plausible!!! (When, in fact, it is impossible to make a decent FNAF theory nowadays without having to ignore at least one or two aspects unless you go super super safe a-la "William Afton is Springtrap")
@@TheGeladoo this too
truly, it is a curse I wouldn't put anyone through
----->UTDR and FNAF fan
To submit a crack theory of my own: the Ch3 weird route may physically damage the TV.
Here's my thought process- CH2's weird route relied on a pun: Freezing Computer programs (which might we might be able to fix if we get Tasque Manager to help but thats a different theory)
The TV looks like an old CRT, which can get damaged if you leave an image on it too long. By burning the image into the screen, leaving a "ghost image." (unclear if it means Napstablook will show up. Ghosts without bodies can only be damaged by magic anyways...)
There's been the theory that Kris being downed will prompt toriel to be more agressive, but that also lines up with how we beat her in undertale. We don;t do anything at all. We just spare and wait. If Kris is targeted by the enemies, we sit in the same spot and take damage. Burning the image of the heart in the center of the battle box.
Actually now that I think about it a bit more I think that Napstablook will show up, and get burned into the tv. Because the only physical evidence of the weird route in Ch2 was Berdly (and Noelle's reactions to it).
Ch 1 not having a true weird route also kinda makes sense with this? You're dealing with board game pieces and playing cards. There isn't much you can do to damage them except by just. Physically damaging them. The darkners running away feels more like you're just flicking game pieces across the floor with Susie than anything permanent.
Also, the image is BURNED on the TV, and Torial (at least in UT) has flame powers
So like noelle kills berdly in Ch2, toriel will kill napstablook in Ch3
I will say, part of the reason that people trash Jaru's theories because he trashes others' in return. Like straight up calling people who believe that- based on the themes set on Ch. 1 and 2- the Soul Kris has belongs to/ is being controlled by the *player* and not some super mega ultra secret third entity- stupid and uncreative. I find that really obnoxious and unnecessarily mean, especially since he has that whole "I take offence to people comparing my theories to fanfiction" thing going on. Which. I think is definitely a losing battle tbh. That doesn't make being mean to him right, but it's just my personal findings
When it comes to MatPat, I hope if he *does* go back to Deltarune before retirement he actually. You know. Doesn't misgender Kris the entire time in the video. "Sans is Ness" sounds stupid as hell but to be FAIR, Toby's Earthbound Halloween Hack literally replaced the main character (Ness) with Varik from Brandish... and then implied that Varik was still Ness anyways
This made me look back to the time id watch cringy undertale comic dubs, i tought that Chara had an official boss fight, and that Frisk was a girl; ahh weird times.
i feel like when it comes to unserious theories made for fun or as a fanfic it shouldve been named as "headcanon theories" instead of regular theories, because like it or not some people just want to see serious theories to explain plot points and plotholes, but since silly theory videos and serious theory videos are all under the same category, it only takes watching the video to know if its gonna be serious or not, because at times the title can simply be "the mystery ralsei is hiding" and the video in the halfway point is explaining that ralsei was a type of plant only found in texas
Yeah, that and the way certain theorists love “burying the lead” until ten minutes in to maximise their watch time for a deeply unserious theory that would otherwise make people shrug and click off
Hnstly I loved this video. I'm one of those people who at this point just watches Deltarune theories to get more content in a way. The amount of hours of Deltarune theories I've consumed are COUNTLESS, but I never expected to see a theory that had ALL the answers. There's something so magical to creating your own theories, or watching other people theorize and then having your expectations completely subverted for good, having some crazy reveal that no one considered. To me, it makes the experience even better, and most of the ideas that theorists bring to the table are really interesting, I've found so many great creators because of Deltarune theories, they're probably my favourite part of the fandom.
I dont mind crack theories most of the time, But its when a theorist doesnt respect the watcher/reader's time that i get turned off /shrug
your right people are far to toxic and rude when it comes to crack theories, debunking these theories is completely unnecessary, the fact of the matter is that if you disagree with a theory the only thing that needs to be said is "I disagree". People should be more focused on just making their own theories then trying to prove that other peoples are wrong. But what I think is really interesting is that a lot of anti theorists will often time use logic on the same level as the crack theorists closest knight theory being a perfect example, a anti theory made for the sole purpose of debunking Kris knight, with evidence and logic that's on par with the average crack theories.
I do feel like a issue with the fandom over all is that people will make assumptions and then treat them as foregone conclusions and will often shut down anyone who has a different take, example of this being people believing that Kris needs the soul to live and that this is why they put the soul back in, I for one don't believe this at all I think that Kris could live without the soul but the reason why they put it back in is because they need it to seal the fountains. Its fine to come to a personally conclusion but you shouldn't try to shut ideas down just because they don't align with your interpretation of things.
Honesty I feel that people that spend there time in the fandom trying to debunk everything are only setting themselves up for embarrassment as while yes 99% percent of theories are going to be wrong that's just how these things work at the end of the day with everyone making every possible guess there will be those 1% that are right. like yeah a lot of chapter 1 theories were wrong but at the same time almost every notable thing that happened in chapter 2 had a theory about it pie theory was a thing queen theory was a thing Noelle being a party member theory was a thing, and all the people who believed them where right. And the thing is making any correct theory is very impressive even if you also made other wrong theories, if you make 10 different theories and only one of them is right that's still a huge win. And if you make 10 theories and their all wrong then its really not a big deal because almost everyone does that, but if you assess the correct answer and decide that its wrong and that your going to go and make a big deal about proving its wrong and make a big post or video where you make the clam that its literally impossible, only for the game to come out and show that it was not only possible but was correct the whole time. Now that is really embarrassing.
I dunno, you've gotta at least be willing to tell people their reaching, if we just validated every random theory without pointing out flaws I could see people taking big misconceptions and building entire branchs of lore around something that's not even true, kinda like the Game Theory video that says Deltarune is just a game being played by Kris and Susie, like yeah you've got some evidence for it but it looks over the massive counter argument that there's no reason Susie would play pretend with Kris right after saying she's going to literally bite their face off
Also, MatPat isn't and never was a Crazy conspiracy theorist, his older videos were more about applying actual science to video games, That Sonic video you mentioned is a great example of this, the video isn't "Sonic is slow because funny", the video is that we calculate speed by measuring distance over time and when we apply that to Sonic Unleashed he's really not going that fast when you do the math
Remember kids, Rose Quartz=Pink Diamond WAS a crack Steven Universe theory.
We sit in a timeline where Sans (and Papyrus) is now "Ness", anything is possible at this point.
Game Theory mentioned!
Fr though, theories are made in hopes that we might get something right eventually, just because it seems dumb now doesn't mean it will be forever. Plus people are allowed to make theories and have fun, which is exactly what the Sans is Ness theory was about.
this is a peculiar video to me. I dont engage in UT/DT theory discussion enough to have a stake in any one theory, and I dont personally qualify woody theory or oberon smog as crack theories either. But i DO think a theory's value is its believability, actually! Like, a theory's job is to theorize. Thats not to say a theory's value is dependent on whether it ended up being correct-- at least not in fictional media. But the definition of a theory literally has to do with its plausibility or rationality because it is meant to serve as an explanation of something that could then be used in practice. If a theory isnt believable then it has no practical application, which is what theories are for.
I think there are time where the framing is the issue. That is, sometimes something really shouldnt be called a theory because it's better served as an interpretation, analysis, thought experiment, fanfiction or au fanfiction. Those are all wonderful things to be, but they dont all fulfill the need or value of a theory necessarily. And often theorycrafting does involve those other things, which i guess... is simply what the remaining value of a work will BE when that work stops being believable as a theory. So i would agree that these things are all very interrelated, but a *theory's* value AS a theory will always be its believability because that directly affects its ability to be applied to other things.
THANK YOU! It's refreshing seeing someone with such a reasonable, nuanced take here. Of course people tend to regard "crack" theories as lesser compared to theories with more supporting evidence behind them!
This is my precise problem with this video I think. I forget exactly where in this video, but Spooky argues against calling these theories "fanfiction," but I feel like I don't understand why at all. If I were to describe crack theories at all, I'd say they were fanfiction.
It almost comes across like he thinks these insane theories are "above" fanfiction, but what the hell is wrong with fanfiction? I'd describe them as the same thing, taking ideas from the text, and twisting them in any way you want, even if it's ridiculous.
I feel like the actual problem comes from the fandom has kinda lost the plot about what a theory really is, so you essentially have two different groups with entirely different concepts of a "theory" treating it all as the same thing. You have the more traditional theorists, who want to actually figure out whats gonna happen, and the people like the author of this video who are more abstract with the concept of a theory, making things that are closer to personal interpretation of what may happen and treating theories more like fanfiction which is to be enjoyed as its own work even if it fails to actually predict what whill happen (although obviously there's overlap between the groups). These two ideas are perfectly fine on their own, but once you have these two groups applying what they want from a theory to all theory videos, thats when you get the problem.
Traditional theorists treat the more for-fun theories as if they're traditional theories, and try to debunk, so that the fanbase can get closer to figuring out what will actually happen. This of course makes people like the maker of this video upset, as to them theories have worth outside of practical application and they just want to share interesting ideas with the fan base.
we gots a word for that, though. "headcanon"?
One thing I think people need to remember ehen taking abput the game and judging theories, on top of everything in this vidso, is that this game, at its core, is a homestuck shitposter's fever dream.
I appreciate this video and your perspective on theory gatekeepers. I completely agree, creative freedom is being stifled. Keep on theorizing people! I love hearing everyone’s takes and ideas about the amazing experience of Deltarune.
I followed you because of how much woody theory blew me away! I though it was such a cool and creative idea. So thank you for making crack theories!
I think it’s just good for everyone to remember.
We’re all here to have fun and enjoy Toby’s work, share our interpretations and stories based on his work, and enjoy the story that he and his team slowly unfold to us.
I love this video sm, it genuinely put a smile on my face. The way you worded how us as a fandom and as people enjoy and consume this game and the media based on it, made me think about just how special this all is to me. I love this game, I love this fandom, and I can’t wait to see what we come up with next ;))) Excellent Video SpookyDood!!!!
r/deltarune has been feeling more and more like a crack theory hate circlejerk. thanks for making this
I can't stand Mattpat's channel now because of the times he uses grizzly real life murders in his theories (off topic i know), but at the time I really did find the "Sans is Ness" theory really fun, and not to be taken too seriously.
Great video btw, people shouldn't be afraid to make fun and interesting theories
8:32 Oberon Smog being an anagram of of Gerson Boom is not evidence, it's the theory itself. Oberon Smog is not a name provided by the text, it's a name proposed by Jaru as the hypothetical name for the hypothetical character. The *actual* Strongest piece of evidence for this theory is that in Undertale Gerson was a renowned knight known as the Hammer of Justice, and is the only character in Undertale that mentions the name Delta Rune.
Oberon Smog being an anagram of Gerson Boom means nothing. The name was proposed BECAUSE it is an anagram Gerson Boom, not the other way around. Jaru already had a theory that darkners can be formed from the ashes of a lightner, and that the Darkner would have a name that is an Anagram of the original person. This has some obvious problems, like the fact that the only character whose name is an anagram of a lightner has the name of a lightner that isn't even dead (unless we're meant to believe that the entire town is delusional about Asriel being alive)
My problem with the "Crackpot Theories" is that most of them aren't theories at all, they're fan fiction. Theorycrafting, in my eyes, is about conducting a deep analysis of the text, and debating the author's intent. The theory of Lightners resurrected as Darkners may have notable holes, but it's still a decent theory because it brings up some important details of the text (Ralsei's uniqueness among darkners, and his thematic/visual connections to Asriel) that the text itself is trying to lead us away from.
the amount of memories you dug up just by saying sans comic tv is actually insane
my crack theory is that jimmy carter is the roaring knight
16:06
As long as people aren't going overboard, what's wrong with criticizing the writing? People criticize bad fan fiction for the same reason -- characters acting out of character when it's supposed to be taken as though it takes place in the same universe. It's not wrong to point out these flaws, especially when the premise of the game is that these are supposed to be the same characters post-chapter 2.
its been quite a while since ive actually seen woody theory and i dont remember much about what it is but i do remember that i was pretty much convinced, and hoping so badly that it does become true
I genuinely cannot understand looking at the masterpiece of a fan-game, no, masterpiece of a GAME that is Undertale yellow and hating it because of a timeline issue
I just wanna say I LOVE crack theories. Even though they aren’t usually the most believable, they are by far the most fun to think about. Theorising is one of the most fun and interesting parts of games like Deltarune so I don’t think people should be shamed by the community just because they came up with a unique idea
I'm so glad someone finally said this.
Also MatPat has a deltarune theory in store and I'm so excited for it's release. But knowing his luck, chapter 3 and 4 will drop right before or after he posts his theory XD
when did he announce that?
During his goodbye video@@zaidalvi-r2l
@@ScorpionTamerI watched the video and I couldn't find it
hmm it might be in one of his theories after his announcement. I'll have to look later
@@NaseemFatma-mq4ky
@@ScorpionTamer If you find it please tell me!
The world needs more absolutely unhinged and insane theories and leaps in logic. Makes things fun :)
This video inspired me to finally crack down and make my own deltarune analysis video about Kris, and to also finally join a deltarune discord and talk about theories and try to make friends.
I said I believe that Kris was the knight and they essentially called me stupid and laughed me out
So I'm not making the video anymore lol
I really enjoyed this more introspective discussion of the nature of theory crafting and community sentiment to it. This video is very thought provoking, which is rare in this current Internet landscape, so I'm probably going to write a novel to get my thoughts out. I hope I can contribute to this discussion. tl;dr: "Theory crafting" in the UT/DR community often blurs the line of serious analysis and wild speculation, and I think better distinction between the two can help better general discussion around it.
I think I agree with the general point of the video that people need to chill out about the more out-there theories that pop up. It's valid to criticize, but at the end of the day all this stuff is for fun and it's truly impossible to get the full picture. One of my favorite UT/DR fan-works is Paper Trail specifically because it's just someone's interpretation of the rest of the game made into a web-comic. It captures the full story line that Deltarune as a game could, but it's a very well-written and well-drawn, creatively rich interpretation and I love it for that. That being said, I think there is a slight disconnect between how people view what a "theory" is, and I think I can add to this discussion as someone who doesn't always enjoy crack theories.
The science part of my brain tells *me* that a theory is a scientifically provable explanation of something, and you don't create theories by starting with a conclusion and working backwards. There's nothing really wrong with that if your goal is to answer a question that was never posed, but I view that as speculation rather than proper theory crafting. That might seem like a very minor, semantics-based distinction, but it's one that I think is valid. People have different perspectives on this stuff and derive enjoyment from it in different ways, and I think that discontent has developed because both lines of thinking are placed under the single "theory" umbrella. I personally make that distinction because I enjoy finding hard evidence buried within the game and drawing conclusions based on that hard evidence. It's why Andrew Cunningham's videos are my favorite within this sub-community. He takes what we can tangibly see in-game and extrapolates that information into an easy to understand, believable observation about it and the larger narrative. I think that properly delineating between both perspectives could do good for making lore discussion more pleasant. That isn't to say I don't enjoy speculative thinking, I've done it myself. It's a great way to breathe life into the relatively short demo we have and keep us entertained until we finally get more answers in the next release. Just don't be surprised when people that have a more analytical perspective treat what you package as a "theory" with more scrutiny. And don't take what people on the Internet say too personally. It's not good for you.
I also think I have more of a substantial answer as to why "Sans is Ness" was and continues to be so negatively received. Firstly, it was created *after* the FNAF videos were in full swing and the "loremaster" persona was already established for Game Theory moving forward. Mat Pat's fanbase at the time was also fairly rabid and very frequently *did* take the more conspiratorial theories as being actually serious, and Undertale fans viewed "Sans is Ness" as creating a misinformation problem for their community. This isn't helped by the fact that Mat Pat never really seemed to make the hard-theory vs fun speculation distinction. They're presented in the same way regardless of his intention. I don't think I could ever tell when Mat Pat was supposed to be "in character" compared to him just being himself on his livestreams. That obviously doesn't mean he deserved the overbearing backlash he got from it - realistically, no one should take even the serious Game Theory episodes totally seriously - but it was a really bad theory, and rational criticism was definitely warranted.
I've noticed a sentiment in the comments about judging a theory by its enjoyment over its validity, and I don't really think that's a good metric to go on. I derive enjoyment from objectively bad movies, shows and games, but I would never base an objective measure of quality around my own personal enjoyment. There's a place for both, and, again, proper distinction I think would help mitigate those issues.
I also find your point about Undertale Yellow to be a little misplaced. Deltatraveler I'm willing to excuse because it's basically an extended shitpost (and it really isn't that unrealistic to believe that a teenager would say the "f-word" even if she normally wouldn't), but UY is trying to be a direct prequel to its source material, and any continuity inconsistencies are objectively flaws. Any rational critic wouldn't view them as major, or even particularly significant - the game is excellent - but there's nothing wrong with making that criticism. If people are being overly pedantic with tiny issues, ignore them. If people are making level-headed observations about poor consistency, that's still valid.
Such a fun and thoughtful video- absolutely fantastic. Makes me want to revisit my own crack theory of the Annoying Dog being The Knight
Sometimes I feel like fun isn't allowed in this community, like, Oberon Smog and Ralsei is dead theory are so oulandish but imagine if it was real? Cool, right? No, it's not for you because it wasn't Toby that came up with it.
What?
Sounds more like bad fanfiction to me, but who am I to judge.
Wait ralsei is dead?
@@shellpoptheepicswordmaster755I assume they meant Asriel is dead theory, which suggests that Kris accidentally killed Ralsei and lied about him going to college? It’s very very out there
@@shellpoptheepicswordmaster755 Asriel is Dead theory, TLDR:
Kris accidentally killed Asriel and absorbed his soul
Threw the dusty clothes on the storage closet (this got darknerfied through castle town's fountain, leading to Ralsei, who is basically Flowey Deltarune)
Kris lied to everyone in hometown, telling them that Asriel 'went to college', and starts studying the occult with catti to try to revive him or whatever
Kris starts being posessed by spooky Asriel ghost (So the player ain't a thing, it's all just Asriel's revengeful spirit)
This is an interesting perspective, and one that for me is affected by what kind of fandom background one is from.
Firstly - I've figured out over the years that anger and hate just isn't worth it. Making demands makes people dig their heels in, and almost never convinces them. I'll just leave partway through and not comment or share if I don't like it. Nobody is putting a gun to my head or demanding that I watch something. In the age of the Algorithm, lack of engagement is entirely sufficient as "punishment" (if that word even applies here). If I really don't like it, I consider it my own responsibility to provide a more interesting alternative: I write a good deal of fanfiction. Oberon Smog and Dead Asriel fans can have fun away from me.
But, like... for me, my instinctive negative reaction to the "crack theory" is an _immune response._ The line between "theory (entertainment)" and "theory (prediction)" is drawn in different places in different fandoms, and I come from places where theory (entertainment) was routinely misinterpreted by large parts of an often immature audience as theory (prediction). What I'm afraid of is the Sherlock Truthers, the shipping wars. I've seen people send death threats to authors over not writing the "correct" ending. I can see a version of myself who would believe that disposing of such arrogance was a public service, of sorts. I am not that person, but I could have been, and that "could have been" is very dangerous.
On a more personal level, I come from certain highly interactive ongoing fandoms where the author was plugged-in enough that anything you said that got popular enough ran the risk of becoming true, regardless of your original intention. A poignant Homestuck fanart of a character in a wheelchair? Character's a wheelchair user now, and not even a well-researched one, just one that ended up the butt of physical comedy. Blaseball fans experiment with the voting system to pull a character back from the dead? Sure (but the character that got resurrected is killing others to pay her Debt). People demanding that Sans come back to Glitchtale? An opportunity for a second heartwrenching death scene. In these fandoms, anything could become canon, and so I was initially unfamiliar with the notion that there even _was_ such a thing as theory (entertainment). To me, for a long time, _everything_ looked like theory (prediction), regardless of how insane it originally sounded. Toby Fox is not this level of plugged in, but since he comes from Homestuck, which did have this tradition, one is given to wonder.
Honestly, i agree - we are too harsh on crack theories. Until recently, people have been quick to beat down these kinds of theories, when instead we should be having conversations about why we disagree on certain theories. It's created a pretty toxic environment in some servers, and its why I don't talk as much on ACDS anymore.
I left that hellhole called ACDS and my life has became better, my academic success has been increased by a lot, less stressful life, more free time. That place fantasizes a geniunely bad person (sbeve) every fucking day for fucks sake. Leave it for your own good, they are not worth it. What did i expect from a Homestuck fanboy's discord server anyway...
+2
I think its cus people present them with the exact same bombastic youtube clickbait DELTARUNE SOLVED attitude that grows tiresome after the like second time you ever hear it
Like people who think iceee is gonna be plot important are like “heres my wild insane theory guys” while Zombie Gerson Anagram Darkner fans are like “this is totally simple and logical and just as reasonable as “undyne will appear in chapter 3” theories”
someone should make the most out there crack theories and mske an entire timeline just to spite these people
The part where you talk about game theory really struck me. How did we forget Game Theory was always unhinged? It was so fun to listen to a dude trying to convince you of the most insane video game conspiracy theories and somehow we lost that along the way...
that's not true though!! it was applying math and science to videogames! sometimes tongue-in-cheek because real world logic is obviously different from the videogame's own internally-consistent logic, but very very few things were unhinged like "peach is bipolar" or "sans is ness".
Sonic was slow because we measured it and he's literally slower in his debut game than mario is in HIS debut game
@@ferociousfeind8538 But it was always framed in a crazy YOU WERE LIED TO way to seem like a conspiracy theory. Yes, game theory made an effort to teach actual science and useful things using games and a conspiracy theory tone. There are many unhinged theories, saying mario is the bad guy, peach is dead, Solid Snake is a stoner... Even when it wasn't unhinged he was still trying to find, a lot of the time, stuff that directly contradicts what we know about certain games.
Its always been to strange to me how a game series thats messages are about positivity and acceptance has managed to breed a very loud group of negative, hateful people that have to always be right. Its sad, really. I wish they could be happy and enjoy the series like everyone else does.
Thanks for this, feels nice hearing someone talk about this and having all the same opinions as me.
I think the issue here is that people are okay with theories that basically are fanfiction, but they just want people to admit that's what it is and label their videos as such. I think it really is a classic case of that one metaphor i keep going to "If you go to an Italian restaurant and order a calzone, but get tortellini alfredo, even if you love tortellini alfredo and it is some of the best of it you have ever seen, that doesn't change the fact you were expecting to and had every right to expect a calzone". You feel me? Also I think another reason people don't like the Kris/Azzzy is dead theories is a more basic and gut level "I don't want these characters I was told are alive and care about to be dead" thing. Like I admit a big reason I don't like Azzy is dead theory is cause I am just that hyped to see a version of Asriel who got to grow up and live a full life instead of getting merc'd at age like, 8 at the oldest. Also i think one reason Woody theory is made fun of is cause it's called Woody theory and given we have graffiti from the Roman empire that are full of dicks jokes and the like I think humans will never stop laughing at dicks jokes or stop making them
I think woody wwill appear and the whle fun gang will be so existentially terrified that they will beat him to death in response
that and omega ice-e will appear but it the bossfight lasts one digit turns because ralsei gets so mad that he immediately unlocks fire magic and burns it (its only weakness)
The reason why the hollow knight fandom told him to shut up was because a lot of people just saw his theories and took them as 100% canon, being annoying to everyone else saying that it was the only true answer. Wich pissed people off, imagine if people actually believed the sans is ness theory and told everyone that you should just shut up about any other interpretation on sans or undertale.
When oinky sploinky was revealed to be controlled by his evil twin, Sploinky Oinky, I felt that
I have very few fully crack theories but one I want to be real is Ice-E being a super secret boss that's on the same level as like Sans was in terms of difficulty. Specifically I think maybe the eggs will unlock that because if anything screams "not too important or too unimportant" is the weird vaguely cryptid like restaurant mascot Toby Fox created that keeps coming up repeatedly but never in a particularly plot relevant way.
That or everyman for secret egg Boss would be great. I'm also a big fan of gumball machine/omega ice-e theory.
i dont usually comment on yt videos, but this is genuinely one of the most inspiring videos ive watched in a while. thank you
You weren't kidding when you said you were trying a new style. I like it! It looks pretty cool!
Also (almost forgot to say) BUT THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS! It feels like there's this growing crowd of people who have to turn every theory discussion into a lore competition where you flex your knowledge of "conventional" theories instead of actually trying to explore different possibilities! It's nice that this problem is being addressed now
My theory is that their is a decent chance that gaster has a lot less to do with delta run then people think. think about it, their have been no references to gaster really except in some points where his theme is in a song (like noel). it could easly be another charicter we have yet to see is doing a lot as well and we just dont know it. my instinct as a story guy is to think Ralsei (or something Ralsei adjacent) because their is a lot surrounding him that is veerry intresting and sus.
No Matter How Good Or Bad The Theory,
It's Still Just A Theory
We Just Need To Enjoy The Fantasy We Came Up With And (Unfortunately) Just Wait For The Real Answer.
(And Don’t Impose This Fantasy On Everyone Else “Just Because”)
Great Video And Great Take On The Whole Thing.
Another peak spookydood video. Also gotta say Deltarune with a crt tv filter goes hard
Honestly Kris = Knight theory IS fun, and would make it so that we, player, the protagonist, are controlling the Antagonist, which to me sounds... is fun the good word? But I wouldn't outright want it to happen, UNLESS Kris is A Knight and not The KNIGHT.
OMG TOBY FOX YOU GOTTA RELEASE DELTARUNE THE FANS ARE GOING CRAZYYYYY!1!!1!1!!1!1!!!!1
wow guys the deltarune fans are going craaaaazzyyy
when i was into steven universe i thought the theory that rose quartz and pink diamond were the same person was the biggest crack theory ever and i hated its guts but when it was revealed to be true i ate it up like it was apricot chicken i thought it was the best thing ever. crack is good sometimes
This video was absolutely needed though, the most fun theories are the ones that go completely crazy. Even though some (or maybe all) of them won't be true, it's still fun experience to read them/listen to them. I've seeing a lot of negativity lately in this community and it doesn't help anyone
I remember you're theories
I like how there is so many deltarune theorist videos because it makes me feel like I’m part of the community
24:51 after all, we DID predict that Kris would eat the pie in chapter 2
I have a few different thoughts on this video, and I'll give them all, but the one I want to start with is that I just find the premise as a whole kind of... Odd? Coming from you specifically. What I mean to say is, having watched your other videos I've considered you to be the most anti-theory theorist in the community. To some degrees I agree with, sure, your debunk on Skies Forever Blue's connection to Deltarune is still a favorite of mine, but some degrees are a bit much for me. Your video "Deltarune Theory Review 1.0" includes a couple minute long segment essentially asking people to stop theorizing on whether or not Kris is the Knight, saying it's ruining the story because Toby intends us to think Kris is the Knight in that moment in the story. I always found that a very odd and staunchly anti-theory stance for a theory channel to be making, especially since Toby put the game out knowing it would take a while for the next chapters to be made and that people would spend time thinking about it. Which made the comparisons in that video to pausing a movie to think about the mystery fall flat for me, and even then, I don't think that ruins a movie, either. I don't want to bloat this part of the comment with examples, but you can see how I find this to be an odd angle coming from you.
I don''t think there's really anything wrong with people valuing theories based on their believability? Trying to figure out what will happen next is, generally, what people want in the theory space. If they don't care for videos they find unbelievable because they don't think the events projected are likely at all, that's well within their right. I can't say I'm desperate to predict what will happen next in Deltarune, but I do prefer theories that provide reasonable evidence and connections for their premise compared to ones that don't. Woody theory is crack, sure, but I wouldn't put it in the same ballpark as the Jaru's Asriel is Dead theory, because there really isn't any evidence against the Woody theory despite how out there the premise is, while Asriel is Dead has some glaring gaps in logic and even requires misinformation about Undertale to work. On the other hand, I think Oberon Smog is actually a very solid idea, but similar to what you said the fact that Jaru came up with the theory specifically to serve as foreshadowing in the grander narrative of Deltarune he envisions for the Asriel is Dead plotline kind of sours me on it. Cool name, though.
I agree with your response to the statement "He's not a theorist he's a fanfic writer" being "So what?". but (And I'm not trying to single him out to pick on I swear he's just a good example for a lot of this) when Jaru's response to that question is to tweet out "Don't call me a fanfic writer I am a theorist" instead of embracing it, it's a bit... I don't know how to end this sentence so I'm just gonna segue into the next thing. Twitter is bad for everybody. A lot of this video just comes across as defensive of comments and types of people that in my time in the Undertale community I've grown very accustomed to ignoring. I think disengaging with vocal minorities and little haters is just kind of better for everybody. The vast majority of people I interact with in the Undertale community just kind of aren't the type of completely dismissive fan discussed in this video, and I think spending so much time interacting with that type of person has caused you to make a video defending things that like. There's no harm in defending obviously but it just doesn't seem really necessary? Because hey, people are allowed to be dismissive to a certain extent. I'd prefer if people weren't rude about it, obviously, but when people are rude about it I really think it best to just not engage like this. I notice that a good few of your videos are very focused on the fandom and its response to things, especially in that shipping video. Me personally I just kind of prefer to interact with and make theories about the work itself instead of battling with the fandom over what they think so much. Maybe I'm waffling a bit now, I don't know. I guess just, as a viewer, I like it more when you focus on Deltarune itself rather than fighting against what the fandom thinks or the long chunk of the Woody theory's runtime where you try to justify making a crack theory as if it's a bad thing to do instead of just talking about the theory. Which kind of brings me back to the anti-theory point.
Undertale Yellow's (pretty major) timeline issues compared to Undertale don't at all detract from my enjoyment of the game and the experience of it, I agree with you on that. But they do detract from its stated intent to be a prequel to Undertale. Just thought I'd point that out, I don't think people are really trying to say the game is bad because of it.
Sorry for how absurdly long this comment ended up, I do tend to be a bit overly wordy. I do hope to hear a response from you, but I understand if RUclips comments aren't the best place to hold a discussion, because well, they kind of aren't. I did appreciate your reply to my last comment, though! In conclusion, shoutouts to RV Pine and show us your fancomics Spookydood.
Oinky sploinky made me laugh so hard
I didn't even know how needed this video was. I love crack theories, I love theories that make you think and consider the alternative. Yeah, you can judge a theory by how likely it is and you can judge a theory by how fun and well-constructed it is. Both can coexist.
oh god, yeah. Sans is Ness is a fantastic theory. Does it need to be true for it to be great? No! What matters is that a lot of care has been put into it.
One thing i dont like abt the deltarune community is that some people are too protective over it. this was the case with undertale when its fandom started to get big. People protected and threw rocks at everything that irritaded them. Like the story of undertale video. And i think its the same deal this time with deltarune too. One thing thats intresting is that the undertale fandom is more accepting. More chill rn in my opinion. So i hope that after some more chapters relase. People wont be this protective over a fictinal game.
honestly it’s easy to lose sight of “just have fun”, thanks for reminding me of that
i've disagreed and disliked theories before but i've never considered leaving a rude comment about it. i know Jaru had issues with people bashing on his theories and i was sitting there thinking, yeah i didnt like what he was saying so i guess this video is for me. i see now, that video and this one are for people who are more active in the community and try to shut down other people's ideas. im happy i never interact with "fandom" outside of theory videos and sharing my interests with friends because while i'm sure theres lots of good things about it, i only ever hear the bad things
i’m also not trying to say i’m better than other people for getting mad in a comment section, or for not interacting with my favorite media’s fans. i know how easy it is to give in to the frustration and say, no mr tuber this is how you’re wrong and you should feel bad for it
Screw it. Here's my crack theory: Temmie is the knight and gaster's an egg and also the angel.
the deltarune fanbase is slowly approaching Lobotomy Kaisen tier and that scares me
I NEED Tobyfox to drop those chapters man
edit: I'm very glad you mentioned the concept of anti-theorists because I feel like they indirectly sap away half the fun when it comes to Deltarune discussion
Now of course are some theories just plain dumb stupid and wrong? Lol yeah (Toriel is homophobic is still my MOST hated theory to this day I get angry thinking about it)
But not all of them are. And the "crack" theories are often the most fun ones; Oberon Smog, Asriel's dust, and Woody theory are genuinely my favorite Deltarune theories that I hope are real
I will defend Sans=Ness with my life because the internet saw a man having fun with 2 of his favorite series and jumped him for it (absolutely asinine I'll never get over that)
Like oh?
You didn't say a safe theory like "Susie has a bad home life" or "Dess is related to Gaster"?
We're putting you in the contraption buddy. You're going in the machine
the pikmin curse
The "Toriel is homophobic" theory is so dumb.
She'd have stopped the kiss even if it were between a man and a woman.
Because it was very much not the time for intimate kissing, especially not infront of a child (even though said child have been through literal hell; which she had little to no knowledge about). She likely wouldn't have minded Undyne and Alphys kissing elsewhere.
The fact that Frisk is referred to with neutral pronouns in Undertale, along with Chara in the same game, which is said by Toby Fox to be for ambiquity, it may very well still be that the kids are non-binary. Toriel is very well likely to be okay with queerness, having adopted children she deeply loved that didn't have a traditional gender identity.
Her Deltarune counterpart also adopted a human child that is only referred to with they/them. Again, while Toby himself imply that's for ambiquity, so the player can insert themself, it's still probable Kris IS non-binary.
Thus that would again imply she's okay with non-traditonal gender identities. She has a child she clearly loves that is like that.
The religion in Hometown and likely most of the monster communities, and possibly humans', has an absence of sin according to Father Alvin.
Sin as a concept is simply to control people, by demoninizing people as sinners to use them as scapegoats and leverage other groups to do the religious leaders' bidding.
Which is why homosexual and transgender people have been so demonized through history and especially now.
Without sin like that, Toriel would have no reason to be against gay romance.
Rant over, two personal sidenotes:
Being trans myself, I wish I lived in a place like Hommetown, with a mother like Toriel. I've been badly damaged by fosterhomes who seemed to make cruelty a sport.
I'd have done all I could to make Toriel proud.
And, if/when we see DR Asriel, he better be the gayest looking femboy or I'm going to riot
@@seekervaltriz9447
plus homophobic Toriel literally makes no sense if you think about it for 5 seconds and use Occam's razor
"Oh I can't STAND those gays."
"Nonbinary and nongender conforming people tho? Yeah they're aight"
like?????
Yeah the Sans is Ness theory wasn’t even that much of a stretch in its logic tbh.
In my opinion, it's bad because it's clickbait, yes, the evidence is bad, but even worse is that most of the video isn't toriel is homophobic, though that could be seen as a pro@@seekervaltriz9447
It's not that you're being shunned for reading into your fave videogame is that you're just... changing it so much might as well be, well, a fanfic at this point. My biggest gripe with crack theories is the seriousness they're treated with while completely ignoring very important elements to take into account when analyzing media such as theme and motif and whatnot.
im glad i found a video pointing out that we're in the "insane theory" stage of deltarune, because this is the only way to even be close to knowing that your in "the good ol days"
I completely agree with you here. My personal theories are that gaster is misunderstood and is a good guy, and I think papyrus is the knight. Nevertheless I love hearing theories that are the exact opposite. At the end of the day I just love this game, and I love hearing other people be as passionate as I am about them, regardless of how crazy the theory is. I don’t care if I’m wrong at the end of the day (I probably definitely am), it’s just fun to think about. It’s always upsetting to see the vitriol in this fandom for theories people disagree with.
Imagine we spend all this time theorizing about Dess and her connections to greater concepts, then on some chapter, we get randomly stopped by an unidentified text box, then Dess comes into frame and is like:
"Hey Kris! I come home after all these years on this stressful trip away from my family, and Noelle can't stop talking about these crazy dreams and this girl named Suzan for even a second. I know this is you and your... Weird friends doing... Whatever you weird peope do! And I'll tell you right now: keep her out of it, you weirdo!"
Then unceremoniously walks away and we never see her again.
JaruJaruJ is honestly the best Deltarune Crack Theorist. His videos are so cozy and entertaining.
People REALLY forget this is just chapter 2, and we still don't even know if there will be 5 or 7 chapters.
For all we know the knight is revealed at the start of the next chapter and the game even makes fun of us for theorizing so much.