I always had a simple solution for frenzy rage: I just gave them haste when they enter a frenzy rage. Including the stun when the rage ends. They can stay in that frenzy rage a number of rounds equal to their Con mod (min1) . After that they have to make Con saves with an increasing DC over the rounds. My players love it. The intimidating presence will be based on strength. You can do it per Str mod per long rest and you can effect all creatures within 15ft of you. Used as a bonus action. When you enter a rage you can use this feature for free and creatures have disadvantage against the safe. Rest stays.
That sounds like a fantastic fix for Frenzy although getting ALL the benefits of Haste sounds very powerful; that ends up being far more powerful than Frenzy in the PHB with very little downside
@@elgatochurro did you listen to the video at all? both your comments get addressed and there is no reason at all to start flaming, but looking at your other commets you might just be a dick. or had a bad day?
@@Trinity0809 i didn't finish the video, and im sick of being insulted by idiots who are too scared of sleeping off some exhaustion Im irritated dammit
Matt Mercer did a fix for the berserker when Travis took it for Grog. Frenzy doesn't give exhaustion and both the Intimidation skill & Intimidating Presence ability are (player's choice) either Strength or Charisma. Was still an action to use, as far as I'm aware. I'm good with the idea that it's a free action as part of a rage and a bonus action to maintain.
The only homebrew to the berserker barbarian that Matt did was make going from a normal rage to a frenzied rage a free action instead of a bonus action.
Or just make Frenzy Exhaustion a CON save when the rage ends. DC is 15, upscaling by 5 per frenzy, resetting to 15 when you finish a long rest. Idea comes from Tenser’s Transformation, Relentless rage does this or perhaps another ability of a similar name Intimidating presence, if it’s an action it better be a 15ft AOE radius and give allies advantage
Yeah, that's a really sensible fix. Maybe start the DC for the save be 10 instead of 15 ala Relentless Rage and make the save juuuust a bit more reachable for Lv. 3 characters. But I do like your ideas. That being said, even as is, Berserk Barbarian isn't so bad that it's useless, it can be good in the hands of a smart and (ironically) clever player. The arch-type just takes a while to get going compared to others and might not be the best for newer players...The Lv.10 ability is ass though, but if your DM lets you use your STR instead of CHA, then it's not so bad.
@@elgatochurro If you honest to god think a bonus action attack is "the most powerful martial ability in the game", then you haven't played enough martial classes. Or enough Barbarian, for that matter.
I personally have Frenzy work like Haste does, where you are incapacitated for the next turn after you get out of the Frenzy. I also fold the extra attack into the attack action and have frightening presence be used on a bonus action and use strength instead of charisma for the DC.
I put in a feat in the game that gave : +1 con, during a short rest, you could lower your exhaustion by 1 lvl by spending a hit die. only once per short rest.
I personally did the same thing you mentioned to the Frenzy, I made it ignore exhaustion specifically while you're frenzied, I agree that it makes for a very cool image and that it's also a very high risk/reward thing where every time you go into a Frenzy grants you the solution to the same problem that it causes potentially encouraging the player to take more levels of exhaustion. As for recovering, I personally don't like recovering exhaustion in a short rest but perhaps what could be done is that instead of healing 1 exhaustion level per long rest you get 2, and maybe we could add that when you're level 14 you heal 3 instead allowing you to recover much faster. As for the attack, I like the ability to do a dash action and then bonus action attack so I'm not entirely sure if I would want to change that part but acquiring a bonus action attack is also very easy in this game so I'm not sure it's entirely worth it unless you're using a shield, since most ways in the game to do it require either a 2 handed weapon (Great Weapon Master & Polearm Master) or dual wielding, even the way to get it with a ranged attack requires a free hand (Crossbow expert) so if you're going for a shield it's actually super cool, however not having to get a feat to do the bonus action attack is also very good, though again you could just dual wield and get a free bonus action attack that granted has to be done with a light weapon and you don't get to add your STR to the damage but it's also free, can be done with any barbarian archetype and you still get to add your +2 Rage damage to it so that's at least something. For Mindless Rage, I think I just agree with you it's perfectly fine, but maybe it should end the effect outright instead of suspending it. As for Intimidating Presence, I think you should be able to choose between the STR & CHA stats & that it should be a free thing you get whenever you go into a frenzy, that way it gives you even more of an incentive to risk the exhaustion levels & I think it should be a bonus action to maintain, that way it would force you to trade offense for defence since frightened is a pretty good debuff and besides with smart positioning you could force the enemy to trigger an opportunity attack anyway or to disengage and give up their action (Which BTW if you get Sentinel you would still get to trigger your opportunity attack anyway and also potentially reduce their speed to 0 negating their escape). As for Retaliation, I like that as it is, it's pretty good especially since other similar abilities have a different conditions for the opportunity attack and in some cases like the Battlemaster Fighter's Riposte Maneuver cost class resources in addition to the reaction.
I have been doing my research about this ability as to how certain people feel about frenzy. I love this barbarian the most, and I've been doing this research for a long time now, and I think I've figured out the problem. While exhaustion is the main turn off for most players, some people actually liked the exhaustion when playing into decision making when getting into their character. With this information, I decided that the berserker needed something else on top of frenzy, so I worked with a friend talking about changes to give something to the berserker while only slightly changing how frenzy works. I'll even be testing these changes in my friend's game. Frenzy - when you use your bonus action to rage, you can make a melee attack as part of that same bonus action. Additionally, you can choose to frenzy when you rage. During your frenzy, you can make an additional attack as part of the attack action.
I love the flavor of ignoring your exhaustion while you are enraged and then you drop dead once you come to. I feel like that’s the image that the designers were going for and your edit achieves that in a better way
@@TheSpiritsLease you stack 1 level of exhuastion at the end of each frenzy Youd have to use this OPTIONAL AND OVERPOWERING ability literally 6 times in a day to die 4+ times a day to suffer the more life threatening effects The developers put it in your hands just how much or little you wish to frenzy
elgatochurro except it’s not fucking worth it, a human fighter that took the duel weirder feat can do the same thing a berserker barbarian can and they don’t suffer a penalty how is that balanced?
@@hasthehighground8560 wow... you're absurdly bad at math... and proud apparently... Dual weilders cant do what berserks can do, berserkers can free up their main actiom to dodge, dash, shove, grapple, all while making a weapon attack as a bonus action completely independent of their main action and this is with ANY WEAPON THE BARBARIAN DESIRES, so it can be a halberd or even a greatsword or greataxe. While the dual weilder will be limited to a 1d8 on both attacks. Then you have to facter in rage damGe bonus, the possibility if reckless attack advantage and doubling ones crit chance by dice math, and then also considering half orcs are a great race for barbarians for natural brutal critical and that the barbarians will get brutal critcal twice leveling up. The dual wielder cannot compare and this is at 3rd level... and it just gets worse from there. 5th levek gives both extra attack and the berserker will have 3 attacks of 1d12 plus strentgh plus rage bonus, doing 9 to 20 damage a swing compared to your shitty 1d8+mod each strike... Youre just shit at math man, sorry
I agree, but it also mimics adrenaline allowing people to exceed their normal physical limits, but afterwards, suffering the exhaustion and bodily damage from basically overclocking their body.
The way I'd fix it is by making the exhaustion downsides positives while raging, but they immediately go back to negatives when the rage is over Just imagine Exhaustion 2 instead of your speed cut in half it suddenly becomes doubled for a couple of turns, you get advantage on everything, etc etc But you're completely useless when not raging It's incentives you to be at the brink of death 24/7 like the myth of a berserker
How I did it was that the 1st frenzy was free and after that you have to make con saves. And the intimidating presence I just use strength instead of charisma and only once per short rest but it’s whenever you enter a frenzy and wish to do it and use choose anyone within 30ft.
@@maxx8362 yeah it was kinda broken. Overall giving advantage against exhaustion rolls would be fine and maybe give your group this bonus too while traveling.
I would change Frenzy to say "When you enter a rage and as a bonus action on subsequent turns..." And have the later lines also say "you gain one level of exhaustion until the end of your next short rest" so Barbs can't undo exhaustion from other effects. Rage would also suspend exhaustion. Alternatively, to limit the Frenzy ability but not have the downward spiral of exhaustion, why not limit it to a number of times per a long rest equal to your Con modifier? Level 10 ability would also be based on Con and just be activated "whenever you hit someone with an attack as a bonus action" to synergize better because while choice is good, no other Barb subclass has two abilities fighting for a bonus action.
Limiting the number of Frenzies per long rest to Con mod doesn't really do much though. The average barbarian is gonna have the Con to keep Frenzying at the rate they can rage. 3 rages/LR at 3rd, 4 at 6th, 5 at 12th, 6 at 17th. On average, you've probably only ever got one rage you can't Frenzy on, which is less a mechanical impact and more just tedious bookkeeping IMO.
I'm pretty late to this video, but this is what I've been using for the past few years in my games, and it has worked out really well. It's still no Totem barbarian, but it is at least better than what the official Berserker is. Path of the Berserker Frenzy Starting at 3rd level, when you take the Attack action on your turn and score a critical hit or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with a melee weapon while raging, you go into a frenzy. You can move up to half your walking speed and make an additional melee weapon attack as part of that action. You can make this attack only once per turn. Mindless Rage At 6th level, you can't be charmed or frightened while raging. If you are charmed or frightened when you enter your rage, the effect is suspended for the duration of the rage. Intimidating Presence At 10th level, when you go into a frenzy, hostile targets within 10 feet of you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw (DC equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier) or be frightened of you until the end of your next turn. Retaliation At 14th level, when you take damage from a creature that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against that creature.
Nah, it’s pretty much fine as is. Intimidating Presence I agree should be given the option of using Strength or Charisma, but the exhaustion is fine as is. I’ve been playing a Berserker with just those changes and it’s just fine. The Barbarian is already the single most accurate class in the game simply because you can give yourself advantage whenever you want and their damage goes through the roof at later levels. Dealing an extra %50 more damage per turn for 10 turns is ridiculous. Unless you’re fighting several battles per day or in a high-exhaustion area, then there’s not actually a problem. If you are playing in those settings, then I agree it comes up short, but there were probably a lot better options to go with in the first place anyway. Shortening the time it takes to recover exhaustion makes them borderline broken and basically makes it and several other things in the game world hold no consequences, especially is someone has the spell Catnap. Removing the exhaustion entirely makes it stupid strong and literally one of the best abilities in the game. As said; the Monk must use ki points to give themselves more attacks but their damage is far lower in many cases, fighters don’t typically have much in the way of normal class abilities anyway and rely on asi’s and several attacks to do damage, paladins have divine smite because they’d basically be a weaker cleric / fighter mix without it and there aren’t many things that can outclass that damage anyway, and rogues have to use teamwork and stealth to properly use their sneak attacks and can only make one attack per turn unless they get a feat. I get that monks and fighters get ki and action surge back on a short rest, but berserker Barbarian both narratively and mechanically must take advantage of the proper time to use their frenzy rage or else it’s wasted and they suffer the consequences. And I’d imagine that throwing yourself into a mad frenzy for a minute straight against powerful foes would exhaust you. I don’t think people fully understand how exhausting fights can be, especially when you’re literally using your entire turn to run around and attack things with all your strength on each hit for an entire minute. The berserker - coming from someone who has played it a few times - is pretty much fine as is when you look at the sheer accuracy and damage output / potential. Change it if you want, I have no problems with that, but I do like it as it stands currently.
Also a feat worth noting: Polearm Master gives you a bonus action attack every round if wielding a polearm. Granted, it's only 1d4 but it has no drawback.
@@elgatochurro Is it really though lol a d4 plus your strength mod and great weapon master is more or less the same damage as a twohanded weapon swing you could be a totem barbarian and use a glave and do the same damage as a bezerker lol.
@@noahtremblay2676 Jesus... you guys are utterly HORRID at math..."imma play a totem bear and take 2 feats and I somehow think a 1d4+5+rage is equal to the damage of 1d12+5+rage you can get at level 3 and all it costed me was 2 feats to get, so now at LEVEL FUCKIN 8 I am ready to deal good damage" yes 1d4+mods is decent for a bonus action, especially with a two handed weapon, but its not nearly as powerful as an extra attack. Extra attacks mind you, are also exactly why most dms feel the CR balance of the game break once the players are level 5, because every martial class has now doubled their action economy in terms of attacking, and as a berserker not only do you get this at lvl 3, but its just even stronger at lvl 5 you wont even need it as much at lvl 5 but its up to you how often you wanna use it. this isnt even getting into the barbarian core class itself as a whole and how perfectly it synergies with berserker... jesus you guys... have any of you passed basic math?
@@elgatochurro 1 d4 plus mod and rage and great weapon master is a max of 21 damage a great axe at max with it does 28 it's more or less the same lol you can't do math.
@@elgatochurro and I just did that with zero draw backs and a better class feature your way over blowing how good it is. Is it good yes is it mind blowing no and the barely noticeable drop off in damage is totally worth it for a better class feature.
If you want to avoid Intimidating presence competing with Frenzy's bonus action, you could make the frightened condition last for 1 minute, like the cause fear spell. "The creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on a success. It has disadvantage on the save if you dealt damage to it on your turn. The effect also ends if the creature ends its turn out of line of sight or more than 60 feet away from you."
I like the idea of being immune to the effects of exhaustion while raging and being able to undo a level of exhaustion after a short rest. What about requiring them to use a hit dice to do it? That way there is a cost to an ability that a barbarian can use for other things. Instead of a bonus action attack, I'd make it "When you take the attack action, you may make an additional attack with the same weapon at disadvantage." That way you are getting the additional attack (like monks) but you are offsetting the fact you have a weapon with making it less likely you will hit.
My 2 cents Frenzy - If you are wielding a weapon in one hand and none in the other or while wielding a two-handed weapon, you can make a melee attack as part of your action. Once your rage ends you gain one level of exhaustion. However, while you are raging you are immune to the effects of exhaustion. I had the same idea as you(when raging you don't suffer the effects of exhaustion)when I made this for my barb player. Then i made it part of an action, so that you can have extra attack at lv 3 or something like shove + attack. I felt like this gave the player way more options on what to do while in combat since barb mostly has only attack or recklessly attack as an option. I also didn't want this to be used with dual wielding, dunno 4 reckless attacks at lv5 somehow felt too overbearing. 3 is quite strong but it doesn't increase after this point. Intimidating Presence - the only two things I changed here were; 1) instead of an action, it is a bonus action 2) the dc modifier is con. Con or str is just too good. Overall, OP I know but much more fun, and the player was never bored in combat. The other players never complained about him being so powerfull during rage, since they always had to save his ass when he started being useless. They were more happy about it quoting iron man in avengers; "we have a hulk"
Having a Berserker actually gives a nice challenge and real agency. Plus you can get some extra days of Downtime, to do stuff. It’s also convenient if your a somewhat busy person and can’t make it to every session.
So is it just me or does the word suspend mean the duration of the charm or frightening effect would stop but it would then resume with the same remaining duration as when you started reading
I would rework Frenzy as "When you use your bonus action to go into a rage, you can choose to go into a Frenzy. On each of your turns after the one that you use this ability, you may make one additional Weapon attack as part of your Attack action. When your rage ends, You must roll a Constitution Saving Throw (DC= 8+Con mod+ Proficiency). On a Failure, You gain one level of exhaustion. In addition, you no longer suffer the effects of Exhaustion while you are Raging." For Intimidating Presence, it would be "you can use your action to frighten someone with your menacing presence. When you do so, choose one creature that you can see within 30feet of you. If the creature can see or hear you, it must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw (DC equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier) or be frightened of you until the end of your next turn. On subsequent turns, you can use your Bonus action to extend the duration of this effect on the frightened creature until the end of your next turn. This effect ends if the creature ends its turn out of line of sight or more than 60 feet away from you. If the creature succeeds on its saving throw, you can't use this feature on that creature again for 24 hours."
Barbarians are a very strong class, other archetypes get cool stuff that could be toned down and no one would notice since the class is just strong as is. While power wise it's completely fine even in this poor state , it's a mess compared to other archetypes so it deserves some love. What i would do is : trying to make the mechanics reflect the Berserker's Idea: 1: " While you are raging you can go into a Frenzy rage by spending 20 ft. of your movement and immediately make an additional melee attack, you can make one as a bonus action on each of your turns after this one" (I mean , if you wanna RAGE over the Rage you gotta stand still and scream at someone , eventually you are going to have 40ft. so not too drastic) . This way you can use the second attack on your first turn if you are not too far away. 2: "IF your Frenzy rage is interrupted prematurely you get a level of exhaustion" . So you you get exhausted only when your Rage is broken . 3 I would then swap intimidating presence for midless rage , ( i know i know but hear me out) , Intimidating presence would activate when you go into Frenzy and you would get full movement against someone who didn't save against the DC , so you can play your dammn charismatic screamy barbarian without feeling a meme . MIndless rage at 10 would help you not getting kiked out of rage to avoid exhaustion , i would remove the "suspended thing " because that sounds silly. What do you guys think about this?
>>> Escalating Frenzy >>>> Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can choose go into a frenzy when you rage. If you do so, choose what level of frenzy you enter. For the duration of your rage each melee weapon attack you make has bonus damage equal to your frenzy level, up to a maximum of five. When your rage ends, you suffer one level of exhaustion per level of frenzy used. At level 11 you can frenzy up to level 6, subsequently granting you 6 levels of exhaustion when your rage ends. Doing so triggers your "Relentless Rage" ability. You don't suffer from the effects of exhaustion while raging. You recover from exhaustion at twice the normal rate starting at level 3, and three times the normal rate starting at level 11.
I like the idea of making the 3rd/bonus attack a free action while raging. That way you get at least 3 attacks per turn. Then when you consider additional options, like GWM or multiclassing into Fighter for two-weapon fighting when dual wielding (very specific, I know), you'd get 4 attacks per round. If you further the latter option and get Action Surge, you'd probably be the scariest thing in combat. Not to mention something just crazily attacking rapidly while appearing rabid, really meshes out the aesthetic and power fantasy of a 'berserker' more if you ask me.
@@elgatochurro Here is the thing. Having Great Weapon Mastery as a feat is basically required for a barbarian. And yet half of it's ability is gone when I go into a frenzy, and there are weapons that give you the same ability! Without the downside of exhaustion. A Scimitar of Speed, a Dancing Sword, both of those items allow you to do a bonus action attack. And then there is polearm master which while it only does a D4 it gives you an extra attack without any downside.
@@crazyscotsman9327 so the berserker... having that benefit every turn during frenzy... somehow makes it bad? Even though you can still -5 for additional 10 damage an extra time every attack you make? What weapons give you that ability? Yeah and those arent great two handed weapons... you have their ability at level 3 and beyond everytime you rage if you wanna use it... why are you complaining about it? Its like saying "oh i dont need spiritual weapon cause i can possibly find a weapon of speed" when you legit have a better option as part of the class... "i dont need the staff of healing, im already a healer" Its a d4... not a d12, learn to use math properly... honestly all you people are making it seems like you've yet to even pass simple elementry math... Like what if i told you "oooo well if i take polearm mastery i have a bonus action and gwf doesnt let me use my 1d4 when i get to use my 1d10 halberd as a bonus action, so gwf is bad"
@@elgatochurro Let me explain it to you again. It doesn't require Exhaustion. Those items do not give you any downsides, and a Dancing Sword can be any sword your dm want's to give you. That is my problem with it the penalty is higher then it should be. Sure polearm master is a direct downgrade in dmg during that one fight. But the guy using polearm master can literally do that every single fight no problem. Where as with the Berserker you have one maybe 2 uses of it before you are fucked. And sure GWM's bonus action attack only works on a kill or a crit but that still stands it can be replicated without going into a Frenzy. And this is their signature ability. For a single fight there is nothing scarier then a Berserker barbarian. (I personally play a Berserker Barbarian in Organized play, just a human berserker barbarian with 4 levels of fighter) and he chops through anything in his path with casual ease. During the one time I use Frenzy for that adventure. I might have 3 or 4 fights but I only frenzy once. See where I am going with this? But here we have another thing to consider, the competition that the Berserker Barbarian has with the other subclasses. 1 The Totem Warrior Barbarian, or 2 the Zealot barbarian, who both have Rage abilities at the same power if not stronger then the Berserker without the downsides of the exhaustion penalty. Those guys can use their signature rage ability as many times as they have rages. So I see two options, make the penalty of Exhaustion worthwhile, such as the Frenzy granting an extra attack as apart of the Attack action. (So you know you can use it the same round you start your Rage. And so you have plenty of options like say be a duel wielder instead of the standard great axe wielding one.) Or two give you a chance to avoid the exhaustion penalty with a Con save. As it is exhaustion is just so fucking penalizing that it isn't worth frenzying alot. There are only two ways to remove multiple levels of exhaustion. 1) Greater Restoration a fucking 5th level spell! Or a Potion of Vitality an item that easily is going to be in the 1k+ range of gold.
@@crazyscotsman9327 its shit in comparison though, thats why frenzy has exhaustion. its only condition is you must be raging and itll be over once rage ends, its main limiting facter is exhaustion... meanwhile GWM is restricted to only when you down a foe or crit... comparing that to "for the rest of the fight" is laughable honestly... a full fight... vs 1 round maybe, maybe 2... "THIS LEGENDARY ITEM IS BETTER" ... should i even be taking you seriously??? 1d4+str+rage is nothing comapred to 1d12+str+rage+reckless attacks+GWM+chances to crit+brutal critical... so 3d4+str+rage vs.... 3d12+str+rage... on one attack... which is better? ofc, frenzy... Again GWM is a one turn thing and is very chance based... so idk why youre acting like that compares AT ALL to "the rest of your rage" which could end up being 10 turns. you're really bad at math... and your dms not even following the rules well... sure he can do as he pleases but an adventuring day is supposed to be around 6-8 fights... not 3... so this point doesnt even matter... "make the penalty of Exhaustion worthwhile" as if it isnt already... all ive done is homebrew its first bonus action attack to be a free action when you go into rage. you can homebrew that too, if you're a pansy and feel being the strongest martial subclass in the game isnt enough for just one little level of exhuastion. exhaustion penalty: sleep it off on long rests, has penalties barbarian core class features: we counter those penalties outright with movement speed boosts, advantage on almost everything you need as a combative class, even on your attacks themselves. lets go over exhaustion adn how the berserker and barbarian class work in perfect harmony to offset the consequences of exhaustion: level 1 - disadvantage on skill checks (offset by the fact the barbarian isnt about skill checks, let alone the berserker, the most offensive subclass of the combat oriented class). at most you might need certain skill checks but barbarian rage gives advantage on athletics, and later at level 7 the barbarian gets advantage on initiative checks offsetting that as well... level 2 - speed halved, for most races this means 15 feet, for small folk and dwarves itll be a slow 10... aight, you got me here, using frenzy twice a day slows your speed... what're you gonna do right? well barbarians get a +10 movement speed just for being level 5. so now its 20 feet for most, and 15 feet for dwarves and small folk. 20 is still very decent, and again, as a berserker frenzied barbarian you can dash on your action and still attack, if you're not frenzying you can still dash and get the opportunity attack or force a disengage action from your enemy. level 3 - disadvantage on all attacks... now its over, the combat class is lacking in combat... but you have had 3 frenzies in just ONE DAY... plus if you still wanted to go further there's the dodge reckless attack option... or reckless attack, anyways the barbarian class itself also offsets this consequence, besides your rage gives you resistance to all physical damage... amazing... level 4 - hit point maximum halved... as the class that gets the biggest hit dice, and boosts their con a bunch, and gets multiple abilities to just halve most damage dealt to them... still at level 4 exhaustion youve had 4 frenzies in one day most likely, and you're really overexerting yourself... exhaustion is a resource the berserker should manage. so there we go, most levels of exhaustion, which are not only just removed a level at a time upon long rest, are also countered by the barbarian's main class features. its like the berserker was specifically meant for the barbarian class. and again, most of what we talked about was jsut frenzy, the berserker is much more than frenzy but its also got frenzy, the most powerful martial ability in the game, for the most powerful combat subclass in the game, for the most offensive martial class in the game... and you think it needs BUFFS
I think the best way to fix this is just have the levels of exhaustion from frenzy fall off after ten minutes. That way you can stack up multiple levels of it and there is a trade off to go into the frenzy for the added power but you can still play the game. Instead of taking a short rest if you just stopped and took a breather youd be gtg again. I think there was barb or fighter classes in 2nd that functioned like this and maybe even how the rage worked in 3rd? I do like the change you suggested to Intimidating presence though and the idea of ignoring exhaustion while raging makes a lot of sense too. That way even with the ten minute timer of rage if you immediately start fighting again you can rage to get around the exhaustion.
My current favourite character right now is a Large Gnoll Berserker (my DM loves letting us mess around with homebrew, so I always have to restrain myself to not let things get too out of hand), but I agree that the whole thing about the frenzy penalty being awful, and that the bonus it grants is depressingly lessened by the existence of GWM. You do raise an interesting point in that you will always be able to use that bonus action attack whether you attack or not, but even so I've felt berserking should be more "mindless." When theorycrafting for how to make my character slightly more powerful (which I definitely didn't need, but our paladin can use two spells per turn so whatever), I definitely wanted the berserker's bonus action to be freed up as well, because I liked having GWM open and (as a Gnoll) it felt wrong that I couldn't rampage. One of my first ideas was that they make an extra attack during the attack action, but the capability to eventually use 4 GWM attacks (5, if provoking an opportunity attack) with a large weapon (2d6 + 1d4 or a 2d8 greatsword, think Berserk), all with reckless attack's advantage and the bonus rage damage? That was probably not something Wizards had ever intended, and I felt it broke the character. I haven't actually gotten to do this yet, but I recently asked my DM if I could change the ability to this: Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can go into a frenzy when you rage. When you do so, and at the start of each of your turns for the duration of your rage, you must make a Wisdom saving throw to maintain control. The DC equals 10 or half of the total damage you’ve taken from attacks since the start of your last turn, whichever number is higher; you can choose to fail this saving throw if you wish. On a failed save, you must use your reaction to move directly towards the nearest creature to you which you can sense and make a single melee weapon attack against that creature. If there is more than one possible target, the DM chooses which one you engage. You then regain control for the remainder of your turn. If you have taken fire damage since the beginning of your last turn, you automatically fail this saving throw. Until you succeed on this saving throw, you may not choose to end your rage prematurely. At the end of it it still causes exhaustion, but I've also made it that if he takes fire damage when he's not frenzied, he immediately needs to make the same WIS save or trigger his frenzy. The reason for the whole fire thing is because the character's got this whole trauma with paladins that razed his village. It's all standard edgy anti-hero stuff, y'feel? There's also this wild coincidence that every father figure he's ever had (both in backstory and among the other PCs) has died horrifically in flames, and it's sorta been a running gag between me and the party. I really love the concept of being able to ignore the effects of exhaustion while Frenzied though. That's fucking sick. Pardon the language. As for Intimidating Presence. Yeah. I would hate this a lot more if I didn't already have an 18 in CHA because of the godlike luck with my stat rolls. I've thought of a lot of these-- from making it work like Sleep to making it literally just giving myself Cause Fear (CHA casting)-- but I settled on this: Intimidating Presence can be triggered when you enter rage or reduce a target to 0 They must be at least 60ft away OR out of line of sight to even attempt the saving throw. If they are within movement speed + weapon reach, frenzy prioritises them. Otherwise, it is unchanged. I do really like the idea of it taking a bonus action, because a guaranteed 3 attacks while frenzied is better than a possible 2, but I think I have to limit myself here. Now you might be wondering, "Hey seiz, if you made Frenzy a reaction, then what's the point of Retaliation?" And to that I say "path of the beast is the juiciest thing in the world and you could not pry my hands from that 14th level ability with a crowbar." Even with the uselessness of applying advantage against fear on a berserker, this ability waters my crops and tills my soil. It's a shame that boy's only level 8.
Make the extra attack when raging part of the attack action, and remove exhaustion. Problem solved. That the extra attack is a bonus action makes no sense at all since he cant use, ruled as written, great weapon master extra attack on crit or two weapon fighting. This is why when I DM, WTF extra off hand attack is part of the attack action, and berserker attack as well, giving them a potential of 4 attacks per turn at level 3, which yes is powerful early level but levels out later on, especially since they totally lack all the powerful abilities the other barbarian classes have. That they did not fix this class is beyond me as its, on paper, extremly weak compared to the rest. But again, as per above, easy fixes to this problem. Also, Intimidation can be both strenght or charisma.
I used to run the whole idea that raging suspends exhaustion and you can't gain levels in exhaustion while raging. However, after this video and reading the comments, I decided to try a different route. It all stays the same, but remove the general exhaustion gain, and instead if you enter a frenzy rage a number of times equal to the number of rages you have, you suffer one level of exhaustion. Adding a cap on the ability retains its theme of pushing past your limits/throwing caution to the wind, and it scales similar to proficiency bonus features that WotC seem to be leaning towards nowadays. I really like the idea of pushing past a limit, which is why I personally like the idea of exhaustion remaining, but make it less intrusive on the subclass' style.
I love this Barbarian subclass cause it's definitely a good risk/reward subclass, reminds me a lot of One For All in My Hero Academia. With that in mind, I really like the idea of ignoring the affects of Exhaustion while Frenzy Raging, I think that's a great fix, and I loved your whole idea about it--battling a long fight and they collapsing after it's over, great thematic idea there--and I'm definitely going to add that addendum in my PHB for my next campaign, as well as the Intimating Presence as a bonus action, that is a great fix too. Thanks for the video!
I like the idea of choosing to Frenzy for the duration of your rage. You can use your bonus action to make an extra melee attack, and you gain a level of exhaustion when you exit your rage.
I would remove the "bonus action" attack and make it an extra attack when you take the attack action. In this way, it can work with Dual Wielding barbarians, that are quite rare, even if pretty thematic. Nevertheless, removing the Exhaustion mechanics would make it too broken IMHO. I would oblige the barbarian to have a Con Saving throw at the end of the Frenzy, starting with DC= 10. If they succeed, they do not get the exhaustion level. Regardless if they succeed or fail, the DC increases by 5 for the next time they enter a Frenzy. Each time they "Frenzy up", increase the DC by 5. The DC resets to 10 after a long rest.
I would make the frightening ability apply when they go into a frenzy rage and extend when they hit the person with the extra attack. The abilities should stack on each other not compete. I would just give them an extra attack with the attack action while raging or an extra action they can use to move or attack while raging.
the way I'd make it would be: 3- you can enter frenzy at any point during rage, while frenzying you can do a bonus action attack, you ignore the effects of exaustion while raging, you cant gain exaustion while frenzying, frenzy gives you 1 level of exaustion when it ends + whenever you rage but not frenzy you lose 1 level of exaustion at the end of the rage, you can lose exaustion this way only a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus per long rest 6 - mindless rage remains the same except entering a frenzy also flat out ends charm and fear effects on you + while rageing you can now dash as a bonus action, but if you do you must run the extra 30 feet towards an enemy you can see within 60 feet of you 10 - intimidating pressense is now done as a bonus action, you may use your strength modifier while raging instead of charisma, and it adds +2 to the DC while frenzying (or alternativebly if this isnt too strong, add +2 while raging, and add your str modifier on top of cha when frenzying) + when raging you have +1 on attack rolls for each level of exaustion you have 14- you can now do your previously obtained bonus actions as part of entering your rage + retaliation now has multiple options that allow you to do your previously obtained bonus actions as a reaction: the attack now has a range equal to your reach + when a creature within 30 feet of you attacks you you can use an intimidating pressense reaction + when a creature you can see within 60 feet of you damages, you can move 30 feet towards that creature - with this the beserker basically becomes a resource based subclass where your resources are (in the order that you obtain them/they begin to matter): your number of rages, your number of exaustion recovery, your bonus action, your level of exaustion, your reaction and the passives you obtain along the way help aliviate this need to allocate limited resources to your bonus action/reaction of choice
If they want a downside make the downside what frenzy actually means.... uncontrolled. Make it opposite of the wolf totem. Allies want to be close to the wolf totem, give them a reason to stay away from this barbarian. On a critical failure they hit allies within 5ft, because he/she’s so reckless. Or when the barbarian attacks, allies within 5ft of the barbarian take his str mod in damage. Or the barbarian is so wild that he gives you disadvantage in melee to hit the target of his attacks.
I've only recently come across this video, but here's the fix I came up with when you rage, you enter either a regular rage or a frenzied rage, choose when you enter the rage. if you enter a frenzied rage, you can take the Attack action as a bonus action. if you do enter a frenzied rage, you gain a level of exhaustion when your rage ends. it's a high impact, high drawback feature. once you're at level 5, you're making 4 attacks, but taking exhaustion to do so. I'd also tweak the intimidating presence to be off of Con, as you basically release a bellow. it'd still be an action, but because we've got the bonus action Attack action, it's effectively as a bonus action.
I like your suggested fix, but personally, I think there might be a more creative way to go about fixing this class. I would suggest: Frenzy Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you go into a frenzy when you rage which allows you to deal even greater amounts of damage to your enemies at the cost of your own body. For the duration of your rage whenever you roll damage for a melee weapon attack, you can roll a hit die and add it the number rolled to the damage. Intimidating Presence Beginning at 10th level, waves of menace pour off of you when you rage. When you enter your rage, you can choose a number of creature that you can see within 30 feet of you up to your Constitution modifier (minimum of 1). If the creatures can see or hear you, they must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw (DC equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier) or be frightened of you until the end of your rage. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If the creature succeeds on its saving throw, you can't use this feature on that creature again for 24 hours. I know Frenzy still has a down side in this iteration, but the feature will get better the further into the class you get, and these to features together will make your reckless attack truly terrifying. However, I am also bandying about the idea of spending a hit die to treat the damage roll of an attack as if it rolled max.
I don't like the bonus action because it keeps me from running a two axe berserker, I say it is made to say this: When you rage you can frenzy as apart of doing so you gain one level of exhaustion the effects of which are suspended when you rage, while in a frenzy you have one extra action that can only be use for either a single attack action or a dash action. At level 10 instead of intimidating presence, you gain relentless endurance you can ignore up to your con mod in levels of exhaustion, upon reaching 6 exhaustion you still die as normal.
One minor downside about berserker I dislike is the bonus action attack makes dual weilding Barbs redundant. Yes I know, barbs often prefer heavy weapons, but I also like the imagery of big buff barbarians with a weapon in each hand like say, kratos. but I also like that the bonus action attack frees up your action for if you need to do other things, like Dodge or dash. I'd say either make where they get an extra attack as part of the attack action, or the bonus action allows for *two* attacks like flurry of blows, so dual wield barbs still get a benefit. You could say it's too powerful for the cost at that point, but you could always put a limit, either to the number of times you can frenzy, or the number of times you can take this bonus action. Maybe you can use the bonus action a number of times equal to con mod, but every use past that gives a level of exhaustion. Could then synergize well with a high level ability to ignore exhaustion.
making the Berserker make an extra attack when taking the attack action is absolutely OP. imagine a Polearm barbarian berserker, that can now do 3d10 + STR*4 + Rage*4 +1d4 AND has a possible extra attack with his reaction AND can still gain an extra attack from Haste (with a potions or a caster ally). all thoose attacks are made with advantage and making 4 to 6 attacks with advantage means statistically 1 crit per turn is very likely (range beetwen 35 and 50%).... an extra attack as a bonus action is strong and the berserker is the only class that can gain it that easily and that can use two-handed weapons with it. I think the only downsize is the fact that it conflicts a bit with GW Master feat bonus action attack. I think that making the berserker able to cancel a single exhaustion level on a short rest,(maybe only once per day, i don't know) could already be a great fix. or maybe add a passive- always present ability tied to frenzy that is similar to GW master feat, such as: " during your frenzy, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to an attack to get a bonus to damage equal to twice your CON or STR modifier" or a fixed number, so that the berserker has a similar-GW Master effect and his exhaustion downside is mitigated by being the only barbarian without the need of GW master
Frenzy Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can enter a frenzy when you rage. If you do so, for the duration of your rage you can make an extra attack when you take the attack action. When your rage ends, make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw. On a failure, you gain a level of exhaustion. Everytime you use this feature after the first, the DC increases by 5. On a short or long rest, the DC resets to 10.
and i like the idea of intimidation while raging and based off cha OR str and a bonus to maintain. also, the extra attack should just be added in and not a bonus. at 3rd level, if you are going to suffer exhaustion, you should get that attack.
Personally I would make it that Frenzying costs a hit die. Still has long term consequences but isn't debilitating. Completely rework intimidate. Personally, I don't see intimidation as tied to being a berserker, not anymore than it is tied to any other subclass. If it has to be a non-damaging ability, I would give even more resistance to mind controlling magic and illusions and maybe even psychic damage too, cement the berserker as the anti magic barbarian subclass.
Honestly, I feel that fear feels very in theme, a rabid warrior hacking into everything in reach through a mad frenzy is a terrifying psychological weapon, and mindless rage is more a reference to a blind, unthinking, rage where you're not thinking enough to be mentally controlled.
While I like the roleplay with this subclass, I think this is one of the worst classes for heavy dungeon-clawing campaigns. I am playing a Berserker Barbarian who seeks revenge and rage and anger have become his source of power and I am having tons of joy, but the campaign is urban and more about investigating and heavy RP, with almost no dungeon clawing and very spread combats and it works well, because exhaustion is not a thing to be worry about. I will always think that the RP is way more important than the game mechanics itself, if you like a class because you like it, go for it.
A few way Ive seen is: to roll con and on a fail you gain a level of exhaustion. It increase by 5 every time used. or make it a short/long rest recovery like a chase.
I feel Frenzy should not give exhaustion at all but should be on a specific trigger. If you are half health or if you lose 20-30% of your health in a single round while raging, you enter frenzy at the beggining of your next turn. Feels like a way to balance it and give some narrative and enjoyement for the players when he get hit hard or when things start going south, he's going to get more out of the situation and makes the ennemies payback for it.
My feeling is that I want the frenzy to grant the Berserker a blanket rage boost (as is the design philosophy of every Barbarian's 3rd level feature) while affording them a capacity to go absolutely nuts in extreme circumstances. The PHB obviously fails in the former goal while only partially succeeding in the latter. Optimal use dictates you will use it only in the last combat of the day. While being likely to be the most deadly, it may not turn out to be deadly at all, but you will simply have used frenzy at the beginning of the adventuring-day-ender no matter what. Sorry, but "fuck it I may as well use this ability" is NOT the vibe I have of this archetype. I like something along the lines of granting a limited number of bonus action attacks per short rest with no lasting consequences. Once these have been expended, you can continue to use them in exchange for exhaustion levels or the chance of exhaustion through saving throws. If the combat is really that intense, you may well quickly rack up exhaustion points, adequately simulating the barbarian reaching deeper and deeper into their rage at consequence to their well-being. This could happen at any time of the day, and it ultimately will be up to the player when getting more damage in will be worth accepting more exhaustion. Naturally I am in favor of enhancing removing levels of exhaustion, especially when we are creating the chance for a single intense combat to absolutely wipe out a berserker. A good idea I have seen is spending 3 hit dice in a short rest to remove a level of exhaustion. This way there is a nontrivial cost to removing it, it keys off an expendable resource making the tactic of cheesy sequential short rests impossible, and your capacity to remove exhaustion via short rest will scale as you level. From there perhaps removing two levels in long rests is good. It seems likely here that maintaining exhaustion after the long rest interval will only happen after the highest tier of deadly combat, something I think most will agree is actively a good thing for the class.
My idea to fix this... Is to give the Berserker another ability at level 3, that lets them (at the start of their turn, no action required) spend hit-dice to cure themselves of various conditions (such as poisoned, charmed, frightened, and exhaustion, maybe adding paralyzed, stunned or petrified to the list at higher levels?). This way we keep the idea of an unstoppable Berserker, throwing all caution to the wind in favor of destroying their enemies while still having something of a cost (hit-points are arguably a Barbarians most valuable resource, and removing an avenue of getting them back makes it a worthwhile decision).
Nah, I pumped up my player's Berserker. Frenzy: Starting at 3rd level, you can choose to go into a frenzied rage. While frenzied, if you hit with an attack, you may attack again as a free action. This lasts until your first miss. Intimidating presence got thrown out. Replaced with: Tireless: While raging, you may ignore all effects of exhaustion for the duration of the rage. My player turned into a _blender_ and loved it.
So from what I'm hearing (and from my perspective) the Berserker Barbarian features should look like this: Frenzy: Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can go into a frenzy when you rage. If you do so, for the duration of your rage you can make one additional melee attack when taking the attack action on your turn.(OR: on the turn you enter a frenzy you get one additional melee attack when you take the attack action, on subsequent turns until your rage ends you may use your bonus action to make a single melee attack) When your rage ends, you suffer one level of exhaustion. In addition, during your rages you do not experience the effects of exhaustion. (I like the first option better, as it doesn't exclude GWM, and I think that while it seems a little crazy, attacking a lot is kind of the Berserker's whole deal, so it's fine if they can just do it, Monks and Fighters are both going to outstrip them long term. Plus with keeping the exhaustion it's still a trade off.) Mindless Rage: Beginning at 6th level, you can't be charmed or frightened while raging. If you are charmed or frightened when you enter your rage, the effect is suspended for the duration of the rage. In addition, while raging you are now resistant to psychic damage. (
@@elgatochurro Lol, I play one without these changes, got to level 15 with her so far, and she's my favorite character. I just think these changes would make the Archetype better.
@@elgatochurro Depends, if it got the resistances the Bear gets it would be pretty OP, but my Barb can get pretty chewed up by casters and elemental damage types. And depending on the kind of game you're playing that exhaustion mechanic can basically make you useless after a few hard fights, or need to nap all the time. I played through Out of the Abyss, and rest was hard to come by, so if the circumstances were at all likely that I wasn't gonna be able to offset exhaustion, I'd hold off on my Frenzy, which seemed silly because it was most of the reason I picked the archetype. I think the simplest change, that thematically makes the most sense, is just making it so exhaustion doesn't affect you while raging. That allows for you to be effective in combat, but also suffer for your extra attacks, and you can strategize a little more. It's also just cool that berserker of high enough level could Frenzy themselves to death, very on brand, and it's actually tempting to push that line because not being exhausted while Raging means you're still effective.
Just multiclass with the variant class feature Ranger to pick up Tireless at first level, allowing you a 1d10+wis temporary hitpoints times your wisdom mod per day and allows you to REDUCE ONE POINT OF EXHAUSTION PER SHORT REST.
Berserker would be nice... if exhaustion wasn't the most sticky status ailment (beating out death). Not even the COLD SLEEP OF DEATH can end someone exhaustion. If you get True Resurrection on someone who died of exhaustion, they are still exhausted TO NEAR DEATH. Exhaustion is terrifying. Not even Grim can save you from it.
I think the best way to fix berserker would do what was suggested by Space Dinosaur that you only gain the level of exhaustion if you don't already have exhaustion and also the no exhaustion effects during rage. Tho, it would be easier just remove the exhaustion bit from the Frenzy. While many think it's too good... well maybe at level 3. Many fights last around 4-5 rounds and one of those goes to raging and maybe one while no enemies around, so you end up 2-3 extra attacks during the fight. Also if the barbarian has GWM, they would most likely get few extra attacks anyways. I think it's a bad way of thinking when one considers that every feature should be amazing. Some of the features are ribbon abilities to balance out that some others are better. If Intimidating Presence is buffed, Berserker has four really good ones where the other barbarians have some hot garbage in there. The IP definitely should be with Strength or Constitution instead of Charisma. I think one reason why the IP is action is that there are no subsequent saving throws. Frightening creatures is surprisingly good as even creatures like dragons aren't immune to it.
I thoroughly dislike having to use actions/bonus actions to maintain ongoing effects that don't provide a new result. Such as Call Lightning, you can choose to use an action to call a new bolt of lightning. Having to use an action each turn just to keep someone frightened feels like hot garbage, especially only one person. And even if it was actually a strong effect it would still be soured by having to spend actions subsequently just to maintain the same thing.
Ya, especially since a 3rd level fighter can use Menacing attack hitting one dude, adding an extra d8 of dmg, and having the dc equal to 8+prof+dex or strength.
You could make it that you can remove a level of exhaustion a number of times equal to your constitution modifier? Also for the dc for the fear effect it could be your strength modifier instead of charisma.
I too believe in removing all limits of a class, like fighters action surging adn second winding every turn without expending reasources. limits be dammed
elgatochurro why would you do that that’s making the classes op, gains exhaustion isn’t worth attacking as a bonus action it just isn’t you’d literally attack as a bonus action once per long rest,
How would you feel about swapping the Exhaustion for the lethargy of Haste? "When your frenzied rage ends, you can't move or take actions until after your next turn, as a wave of lethargy sweeps over you." Pretty big drawback if your rage ends early in the middle of combat, but it makes sense that if you're gonna over-exert yourself like that, then you can't just suddenly stop without shocking your system a bit.
I know this is rather late, but what if. If it was changed to when you enter frenzy you make may take the attack action as a bonus action instead. Or When raging you may enter a Frenzy, you may now take the attack action as a bonus action instead, while you frenzy, ignore all levels of exhaustion. When frenzy ends roll a DC10 + level of Exhaustion, if you fail gain a level of Exhaustion. I agree that there needs to be a better way to remove exhaustion, but I like the feel of you keep fighting even when your are dead.
@nerd immersion itd be good if as a habit you did. People appreciate that sort of thing being easily implemented (myself included) especially as lots of your videos are beyond based
I think making an extra attack as part of your attack action while raging makes the most sense, especially when paired with the frequency that barbarians take Great Weapon Master, and my thought of just making the level 10 ability use only bonus actions. I think the exhaustion is really meant to flavor the idea of how taxing a frenzy is, but if a "frenzied rage" were to be kept, I think it would work better as a limit on the number of frenzies you can enter each day before taking exhaustion. I haven't played a barbarian or looked into homebrewing subclasses for them, so I don't know when the max number of rages goes up, but maybe setting it equal to half your con mod would be good, or allowing the berserker to rage past the set number of rages but incur levels of exhaustion for each rage beyond the limit?
If we're going to give a downside as potent as exaustion, the upside has to be worth it. Just give one free attack. The attack is free (isn't an action, nor a bonus action, nor a reaction) and doesn't get tangled up with other features. It's called Frenzy after all.
Honestly, I think the biggest issue with a Berserker barbarian is its extra weapon attack requiring a bonus action. GWM gives the same benefit on a crit or reducing a creature to 0 hp, and GWM is a must-have feat for Barbarians. So Frenzy just becomes being able to make that extra bonus action weapon attack a *little* more consistently. And then you gain a level of exhaustion when your rage ends. So you get a class feature that competes with something that is part of a feat you would want to take anyway if you care about optimal damage output. Which is one of the only reasons to consider Berserker, outside of wanting to play a barbarian with as little flavor as possible. It’s just very messy within the action economy, and it overbalances the class. Seriously, the exhaustion cost is a neat mechanic and forces you to think strategically about whether to use it, but it hardly seems worth it for a benefit that you would get a decent amount of times anyway from just using GWM one level later. As someone who has looked at playing a berserker, that’s been one of my bigger hang-ups. I can deal with the exhaustion cost if it’s worth the benefit, but Frenzy only seems like it would he worth it against a big, spongy enemy you need the dependable extra attack per round against. And even THEN, by the time you have Extra Attack, that’s a 20% chance every round to score a crit and get the bonus action weapon attack from GWM anyway. And I can see many others in the comments likewise honing in on this as the issue. If you’re dual wielding, the offhand attack is a bonus action. If you’re using a polearm or a heavy weapon, you have polearm master and GWM’s bonus action attacks.
Some other barbs also have this issue to an extent, but many of their bonus action abilities 1.) proc when you first enter rage, and 2.) have more interesting effects than just getting an extra weapon attack that they could get from GWM anyway.
I mean instead of removing negatives why not just increase positives? Power balance by buffing instead of nurfing. Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can go into a frenzy once per short rest, costing no action. If you do so, you are treated as being under the effects of your Barbarian Rage for 1 minute. This does not cost a use of your Barbarian Rage feature. During this frenzy you may make a single melee weapon attack using your bonus action. When you make this attack you may also roll 1d6 and gain specific benefits for this turn. At the end of this frenzy you suffer 1 point of exhaustion. 1- You deal extra damage with the frenzy bonus action attack equal to your proficiency modifier. 2- Your movement for the remainder of the turn does not provoke opportunity attacks. 3- You may expend a hit die and roll it to regain hit points equal to the roll + your Constitution modifier. 4- You take the dash action as part of the frenzy bonus action attack. 5- You take the dodge action as part of the frenzy bonus action attack. 6- You gain the benefit of your choice from this list. Added a bit of randomness to frenzy which personally makes sense to me. Limited it to 1 frenzy per short rest but to use frenzy is free so you can bonus action attack right away. I'd play it. Then again my barbarian is using darts with sharpshooter so meh. Nothing can fix intimidating presence. It's just broken and dumb.
My take on this subclass is that Frenzy doesn't give enough value worth taking the level of exhaustion, and Intimidating Presence feels very lackluster to be a 10th level class feature. My idea is to give the barbarian an ability to have a little extra spike damage during a frenzy by upping the Rage Damage bonus and adding versatility by giving a bonus action dash. Intimidating Presence feels like it should be something gained at 3rd level and improved upon later. I also feel like Charisma is the appropriate modifier for the DC since it's the base modifier for the Intimidation skill. So without trying to break the action economy or removing exhaustion and attempting to create something that feels like what you would find in the PHB..here's me throwing my hat into the ring: Frenzy Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can go into a frenzy whenever you go into a rage or while already in a rage. If you do so, for 1 minute or until your rage ends (whichever is shorter) your Rage Damage Bonus is doubled and you may use your Bonus Action to make a single melee weapon attack or to use the Dash action. When your rage ends, you suffer one level of exhaustion. Intimidating Presence At 3rd level, you gain the ability to instill fear in your enemies. As an action or whenever you go into a rage, creatures you choose within 10 feet of you that can see or hear you, must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw (DC equal to 8 + proficiency bonus + Charisma modifier) or be frightened of you until the end of your next turn. This effect ends if the creature ends its turn out of line of sight or more than 60 feet away from you. If the creature succeeds on its saving throw, you can’t use this feature on that creature again for 24 hours. Mindless Rage Beginning at 6th level, you can’t be charmed or frightened while raging. If you are charmed or frightened when you enter your rage, the effect is suspended for the duration of the rage. Fearful Presence Beginning at 10th level, the range for your Intimidating Presence increases to 30 feet and your proficiency bonus is doubled for the purposes of calculating the Wisdom saving throw DC. As an action or whenever you go into a rage, creatures you choose within range that can see or hear you, must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw (DC equal to 8 + 2 x proficiency bonus + Charisma modifier) or be frightened of you. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. As an addition, if you choose to use your Frenzy ability whenever you go into a rage, creatures within range have disadvantage on the Wisdom saving throw. If the creature succeeds on its saving throw, you can’t use this feature on that creature again for 24 hours. Retaliation Starting at 14th level, when you take damage from a creature that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against that creature.
Here is the best fix. Dont take Berserker just take the Dual Wielder feat and use 2 longswords for a bonus action attack of 1d8 and +1 AC without needing armor or a shield. You just dont get to add your STR bonus to the bonus attack. You would just replace taking Great Weapon Master with this as you would not need to reduce a creature to 0 for the bonus attack and you would not need to take a -5 to an attack and can still potentially add +1 to 8 more damage that could also crit. And if you do not want to give up adding your STR to the bonus attack than you could always go 1 level of fighter and take Two-Weapon Fighting. Then you can be the barbarian from Diablo 2.
You don't even need to multiclass into fighter to make a two weapon barbarian to, just get the Fighting Initiate feat in Tasha's to get that fighting style and your golden.
Personally this is what I thought would be balanced. Frenzy: When entering a rage, you can choose to enter a frenzy. while in a frenzy, you are immune to the effects of exhaustion and you can make a single attack as a bonus action until your rage ends. When your frenzied rage ends, you suffer a level of exhaustion. Idk how you guys feel about it, but i thought it would make the exhaustion drawback more tolerable.
Great video! How about the rogue Inquisitive next? I want to like this class. I'm thinking maybe a changing of skills 1. Tools of the trade - that increases tool proficiencies rates. 2. Ear to the ground - allows you to research and gather information faster. Also you overhear conversations from 15 feet. 3. Eye for detail - allows you to check to spot a hidden creature or object or to make an Intelligence (Investigation) check to uncover or decipher clues and once per turn you study an opponent and following your crit and dodge rise against that opponent any member of your team within 10 feet has in crit and dodge. 4. Gut instinct - allows you to see though illusion and lies. 5. Study magic tools - after you study a magic device for a day you can use it. 6. Steady breathing - you move at half speed, you use the thief fast hand feat and steady eye feat.
This is how I see the Frenzy with the Bonus Attack. As RAW, it is very bad, since it specifies to bonus attack, as a bonus action, instead of like an Extra attack that is added to your attack. So the way I personally say it works, is that you *gain* a bonus attack, so instead of being able to attack 1 time, you can attack 2 times in total without extra cost. Exhaustion is the main problem of the whole subclass (Path), as it has heavy negative effects, for barely any positive effects. That along with a limited amount of how many times you can Frenzy, is also very bad design in general. So this ability becomes more dangerous the higher level your barbarian is, as it puts more and more negative effects on you, till you die. Myself love to put in a bit of chaos into homebrew classes. Like I did a Witch, which can cause Exhaustion on the opponent, but you have to roll a dice to see *who* gets effected. Hex of Age, it has a casting time of 1 action, range is touch, it is Somatic with a material cost of one coal/charcoal and a handfull of ash. You will touch a target (So you have to put yourself into melee range first), roll a 1d4, if you get 1-2 it is the caster being effected, and 3-4 the target you touch. You roll a 1d6 for the exhaustion, and the one effected has to make a Con saving throw with a DC of 12 + Spell modifier. So this spell *can* instantly kill the Target, or the Caster, Note: Does not work on things who are not effected by time (Such as Undead, Demons, Devils, Angels and such). So not only do you put yourself into danger (Since it is a Spell Caster without any Armour), but it can backfire, and just kill you instead. But as it is very powerful, I made it this way to make sure it doesn't get abused as a "Win all" button. And since we can get a 12 + 5 (If Int is 20), for a total of 17 DC it is not the easiest to resist either.
So what I would do is I would just give the berserker barbarian a bonus action attack while raging then I would give them their sixth level ability at third level. As for their sixth level ability it would be when using your reckless attack feature while raging you can critically hit on a 19 or 20, but reduce your AC by 2 till the start of your next turn. This means while raging you can deal critical hits way more often, but you also have a decreased armor class and enemies have advantage to hit you.
I personally like the idea of adding a 2nd 3rd level ability. This ability would do the following: 1. "When you finish a long rest, you remove all levels of exhaustion that were acquired as a result of your Frenzy class feature. Additionally, you ignore the effects of exhaustion while raging."
@@bluelynx4493 is that something you are proposing or a homebrew I am not aware of, because RAW exhaustion does not prevent you from waking up at any level (other than 6(
Wanna know how trash the exhaustion penalty is for Frenzy? Baldur's Gate 3 removed it almost entirely for Berserkers. You can bonus action to attack while raging and no exhaustion afterwards.
This is what I think path of the berserker should be or rather the theme should be around this. Sorry for the wall of text! Upon choosing this path you can choose between going into rage or frenzy, exhaustion affect you differently while raging and you gain FRENZIED ATTACK (F.A.) While raging/frenzy the effect of exhaustion changes to FRENZIED(temp name). FRENZIED level 1 (exhaustion level 1-2) - Your mind now only focuses on fighting. You became fixated on the creature that attacked you last. Your first attack of the turn must be made against that creature unless they are completely out of your reach. level 2 (exhaustion level 3-4) - It become harder for you to differentiate friends or foes. Every turn after you make an attack action, you must succeed a wis saving throw (DC = 10 + normal exhaustion level) or you must move toward the PC closest to you and use F.A. against them. level 3 (exhaustion level 5-6) - You can no longer differentiate allies or foes. On your turn, you must succeed a wis saving throw (DC = 10 + exhaustion level) or be forced into moving toward the closest PC and either : A- use all of your attack action(including F.A.) against it or B- use your first attack in your attack action against it. Trying to debate if the punishment for raging while you’re at max exhaustion be as punishing to you AND your party with Option A or not as punishing as option B. FRENZIED ATTACK - your unbridled rage allowed you to savagely attack again with sheer brute force instead of utilizing what you are holding. Simple, crude but effective. Rage - While raging, FA can be used as a bonus action Damage roll (rage): lvl 3-10 : 1d6 . lvl 11-16 : 1d8 . lvl 17-20 : 1d10. Frenzy - while in frenzy, When you take an attack action(and only your attack action) you must use FA in that same action. You gain 1 level of exhaustion when frenzy end. Damage roll (frenzy): lvl 3-10 : 1d6 + str mod. lvl 11-16 : 1d8 + str mod. lvl 17-20: 1d10 + str mod. Body of the berserker - at lvl 6 your body is now more attuned with your rage. You now lose 1 lvl of exhaustion on a short rest (once per long rest) and 1 + con mod (minimum of 1) lvl of exhaustion on a long rest. (You can make it so that you can start out with -1 lvl of exhaustion on a short rest before level 6 and increase it to 2 when you hit level 6) Unstoppable rage - simplicity is sometime the best course of action, a barbarian will use sheer brute force to break down an obstacle. At lvl 11 if a creature have resistance to your attack, F.A. now deal additional damages against that creature. lvl 11-14 : +3. lvl 15-17 : +4. lvl 18-20. : +5. I know this sound more like a complete overhaul rather than simple fixes, I’m about to try this out in a game soon. Hope that I can get a feel on what to change after I tested it out!
I actually think that the Barbarian in 5e is fine as is. The Berserker, on the other hand, does need a fix. My fix is straightforward, but first, I will suggest the following rule change to exhaustion. I would keep it as is, but I would have removing one level of exhaustion after a long rest be the default rather than the universal rule. The spell Sickening Radiance already introduces the idea of exhaustion that goes away sooner, so I'm not doing anything radical. Depending on the DM's discretion, exhaustion gained via magic could be removed with Lesser Restoration, but exhaustion gained through more mundane means would require a long rest, and only one level of exhaustion at a time. For my fix, a level of exhaustion gained as a result of Frenzy would go away after one hour of resting. This could from a short rest or partway through a long rest. You can only get rid of one level of exhaustion this way at a time, but you can still get rid of one per hour that you are resting. Another fun thing about this change to exhaustion is that DMs could invent new, evil ways to sic this condition on their players.
I think you could make Frenzy better by leaving as is but adding improved critical as well as adding the Half Orc ability by adding the weapon die of damage on top of it.
I dont have a problem with how the class is built at all in fact it's pretty great, yes it has alot more risk than the Totem Barbarian but tbh that's what makes it actually interesting you have to actually think about what your doing where the Totem you just turn it on and go.
Y’all defending this as if exhaustion cant outright kill you! Lol. It’s just not really worth it. And for some long explanation I saw about only a dual wielder this extra attack, a war cleric can do it at level one and not get exhausted. Yes, on a limited basis, and yes, they don’t get multi attack, but there are other ways to get a bonus action attack.
9 months late. But what if they pick a war deity and have a charm or item on their person that represents that deity. It starts at 1 charge at level 3, then every other level (or every 3rd?) you get another charge. These charges remove one level of exhaustion and are recharged on a long rest. They can also be used on other characters. This may also allow DMs to input scenarios where the PC has to make a semi meaningful choice about using their charges on others. Potentially get 2 at level 3 then 1 every 4 levels? It’s really up to how you want to flavor it I guess. May help with Roleplay too? Maybe its almost like a drug and they become addicted to raging to use the charges? or it’s an aging barbarian who loses the will to fight when he reaches 0 charges because he depends on the charges to meaningfully contribute to the party in his old age? Just ideas 💡
My fix: frenzy whenever during rage, no action cost. Once for free, can spend another rage to activate it again. Intimidating Presence is based on Strength, takes 1 attack. Retaliation attack adds double rage damage.
"Extraordinary Recovery: You recover from all Levels of exhaustion when you taking a long rest. In addition, you can once per day, when you take a short rest, recover one level of exhaustion." - could work
Okay so I say turn into something like you get berserker point -you get a point equal to half your barbarian level rounded down+ your con mod (minimum 1) -when you rage you can spend a berserker point to gain an attack added onto your attack action - your presence ability can be a bonus action -you can ignore the effects of exhaustion while you rage -you can spend 2 berserker points to get rid of a level of exhaustion on a short rest. -once per short rest when an enemy falls to 0 up gain berserker points equal to challenge rating, cannot exceed your current max Probably not all too good but that's my idea
1) You can decide to Frenzy with the same action required to Rage. IDK who told you you need a 2nd bonus action to Frenzy but they're not reading RAW if they think that. It would mention the bonus action if it did. It's a free action when you rage. 2) It's intention was to create a spike for the times you really need it. Not to have it on all the time. It does create a fairly substantial offensive spike. Exhaustion was meant to keep you from spamming it and choose things carefully. Ideally once per day, but you could push it to 2x a day if you really needed too. 3) Inability to be charmed is really good. Turning a Barbarian against your party is like DM Strats 101. So Berserker not being able to be turned is nice. If you don't use charm well then it's not great but that's any ability. 4) Intimidating Presence is meh. I'll give people that. Should have been a STR Based check. No Barbarian using Point Buy or Standard Array is going to want to invest in CHA for that ability. 5) Retaliation is GREAT. Shame most campaigns don't get this far. But a reaction attack without even raging? That's dope. That's essentially 4 attacks in a round if you're frenzied, which can all be Reckless (aka double chance to crit). At level 14. FIghters don't get a 4th attack until Level 20. Is Berserker Barbarian the best Barbarian? HELL NO. But is it a viable, fun Barbarian? I personally think so. I don't think it needs buffs. The real problem is exhaustion is too annoying to get rid of. Wish they included some kind of downtime activity for removing extra levels of exhaustion.
My Berserker fix: (1) (a) I allow the bonus action frenzy attack to occur on the round you rage. (b) The Frenzy ability allows a second attack on your bonus action if you gain a bonus action attack from another feature or feat. In other words, it stacks with Great Weapon Master bonus action attack on a crit or when you drop a foe. (c) When you are raging, you are not affected by exhaustion. (2) I allow the Lesser Restoration spell to remove one level of exhaustion. (3) Intimidating Presence: If you use intimidating presence when you are raging, the frightened ability affects all enemies within 30 feet of you. EDIT: can't remember if I changed the save stat or not. My document isn't in front of me. I thought I might have but unsure.
I think changing the frenzy so that it doesn't take the PC beyond level 3 of exhaustion. Plus once per day, when they are at level 3 of exhaustion, at the end of a short rest they can reduce their level of exhaustion by one level.
Funniest thing about Intimidating Presence Way of Long Death Monk's literally get a better ability at level 6 Hour of Reaping At 6th level, you gain the ability to unsettle or terrify those around you as an action, for your soul has been touched by the shadow of death. When you take this action, each creature within 30 feet of you that can see you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or be frightened of you until the end of your next turn.
For me, I'd make the frightful presence be an AOE to all enemies within range but keep it a charisma modifier. The enemy would have to make a check at the end of their turn or remain frightened. They become immune once they save. Something like the banshees frightful visage ability. The downside is obviously the modifier used but I think its offset by having it scare the hell out of everything if you get lucky. Gives good tactical options too for where a barbarian should rage to get the most coverage
Also thinking about the frenzy. Why not give it it's own charge limit. Similar to an action surge but you have to use it while raging. No exhaustion penalty and you regain it on a short rest. Upside it lasts during your rage, still requires the bonus so that's the meh side and down side is if you lose rage prematurely you can't go into a frenzy when you re-rage
If the class could shrug levels of exhaustion with a short rest, it would become amazing and make getting that post fight rest important. I would also give the ability to gain levels of exhaustion at later levels. Maybe gain a level at the end of combat to turn the next hit into a crit.
So I would wrap the mindless rage into the 3rd level ability, and have the ability say while you are raging you are immune to the charmed and frightened condition, and you can make a bonus action attack. Then for the sixth level of rage I would have it be if you attack with reckless attack on your turn until the start of your next turn you can use your reaction to make a melee opportunity attack against a target that deals damage to you or an ally within range.
Frenzy is an option, you are not automatically I it, I just wanted to say that as a foot note, and the current wording in practice should look what he described. As far as improving the intimidation ability, it would make sense to have it set to be dependent on the constitution mod rather than charisma. It would be practical because many barbarians focus on constitution as well. It would also make sense because here comes this walking wall of a man ready to bash your brains out, would it not make sense for him to not only be able to throw a punch but also take a punch. As far as immunity to being charmed or frightened, I could take it or leave it. I think it would make more sense to give on top of resistance to psychic damage. That would add a certain appeal to playing berserker instead of the totem warrior. The level of exhaustion is a problem in some cases, the solution I would propose instead is setting a time cap for when you could frenzy again. A lot of abilities run so that afterwards you need to wait a day to use them again. Better than risking accidentally killing a pc.
Honestly, if you go with the change to making berserker barbarians having another attack when they take the attack action as apart of Frenzy and having Intimidating Presence being a strength save instead of a charisma save, and being on a bonus action, it would serve to making the berserker barbarian as the "attack blender" of the berserker classes
I always had a simple solution for frenzy rage: I just gave them haste when they enter a frenzy rage. Including the stun when the rage ends.
They can stay in that frenzy rage a number of rounds equal to their Con mod (min1) . After that they have to make Con saves with an increasing DC over the rounds.
My players love it.
The intimidating presence will be based on strength. You can do it per Str mod per long rest and you can effect all creatures within 15ft of you. Used as a bonus action. When you enter a rage you can use this feature for free and creatures have disadvantage against the safe.
Rest stays.
That sounds like a fantastic fix for Frenzy although getting ALL the benefits of Haste sounds very powerful; that ends up being far more powerful than Frenzy in the PHB with very little downside
If the Berserker could ignore exhaustion while Raging, and recover Exhaustion easier than other classes, I think it could work out.
man... if only there were options ike reckless attack and fast movement bonuses that all help to combat exhaustion penalties...
@@elgatochurro except any Barbarian can use those, and don't need to take levels in exhaustion to use their other class features.
@@kylethomas9130 and? you can piss in your hands and call it water too.
stop crying about gaining a few levels of exhaustion you can fuckin sleep off.
@@elgatochurro did you listen to the video at all? both your comments get addressed and there is no reason at all to start flaming, but looking at your other commets you might just be a dick. or had a bad day?
@@Trinity0809 i didn't finish the video, and im sick of being insulted by idiots who are too scared of sleeping off some exhaustion
Im irritated dammit
Matt Mercer did a fix for the berserker when Travis took it for Grog. Frenzy doesn't give exhaustion and both the Intimidation skill & Intimidating Presence ability are (player's choice) either Strength or Charisma. Was still an action to use, as far as I'm aware. I'm good with the idea that it's a free action as part of a rage and a bonus action to maintain.
removing exhaustion breaks the class into completely op levels...
No he played it really By The Book.
at later levels Grog Just didnt stop raging XD
I think what would work better is to only give exhaustion if they have no exhaustion, and ignore penalties for exhaustion while raging.
The only homebrew to the berserker barbarian that Matt did was make going from a normal rage to a frenzied rage a free action instead of a bonus action.
@@coltondavis7022 yeah thats right because its really REALLY stupid to waist another turn and another rage to turn a normal rage into a berserker one.
Or just make Frenzy Exhaustion a CON save when the rage ends.
DC is 15, upscaling by 5 per frenzy, resetting to 15 when you finish a long rest. Idea comes from Tenser’s Transformation, Relentless rage does this or perhaps another ability of a similar name
Intimidating presence, if it’s an action it better be a 15ft AOE radius and give allies advantage
This is probably the best fix that also keeps the class within the bounds it was intended for.
Yeah, that's a really sensible fix. Maybe start the DC for the save be 10 instead of 15 ala Relentless Rage and make the save juuuust a bit more reachable for Lv. 3 characters. But I do like your ideas.
That being said, even as is, Berserk Barbarian isn't so bad that it's useless, it can be good in the hands of a smart and (ironically) clever player. The arch-type just takes a while to get going compared to others and might not be the best for newer players...The Lv.10 ability is ass though, but if your DM lets you use your STR instead of CHA, then it's not so bad.
or just play the subclass as is cause its perfectly fine how it is
@@curnott6051 man you guys are all pussies... cant even have a DC 15 for the most powerful martial ability in game...
@@elgatochurro If you honest to god think a bonus action attack is "the most powerful martial ability in the game", then you haven't played enough martial classes. Or enough Barbarian, for that matter.
I personally have Frenzy work like Haste does, where you are incapacitated for the next turn after you get out of the Frenzy. I also fold the extra attack into the attack action and have frightening presence be used on a bonus action and use strength instead of charisma for the DC.
I put in a feat in the game that gave : +1 con, during a short rest, you could lower your exhaustion by 1 lvl by spending a hit die. only once per short rest.
I personally did the same thing you mentioned to the Frenzy, I made it ignore exhaustion specifically while you're frenzied, I agree that it makes for a very cool image and that it's also a very high risk/reward thing where every time you go into a Frenzy grants you the solution to the same problem that it causes potentially encouraging the player to take more levels of exhaustion.
As for recovering, I personally don't like recovering exhaustion in a short rest but perhaps what could be done is that instead of healing 1 exhaustion level per long rest you get 2, and maybe we could add that when you're level 14 you heal 3 instead allowing you to recover much faster.
As for the attack, I like the ability to do a dash action and then bonus action attack so I'm not entirely sure if I would want to change that part but acquiring a bonus action attack is also very easy in this game so I'm not sure it's entirely worth it unless you're using a shield, since most ways in the game to do it require either a 2 handed weapon (Great Weapon Master & Polearm Master) or dual wielding, even the way to get it with a ranged attack requires a free hand (Crossbow expert) so if you're going for a shield it's actually super cool, however not having to get a feat to do the bonus action attack is also very good, though again you could just dual wield and get a free bonus action attack that granted has to be done with a light weapon and you don't get to add your STR to the damage but it's also free, can be done with any barbarian archetype and you still get to add your +2 Rage damage to it so that's at least something.
For Mindless Rage, I think I just agree with you it's perfectly fine, but maybe it should end the effect outright instead of suspending it.
As for Intimidating Presence, I think you should be able to choose between the STR & CHA stats & that it should be a free thing you get whenever you go into a frenzy, that way it gives you even more of an incentive to risk the exhaustion levels & I think it should be a bonus action to maintain, that way it would force you to trade offense for defence since frightened is a pretty good debuff and besides with smart positioning you could force the enemy to trigger an opportunity attack anyway or to disengage and give up their action (Which BTW if you get Sentinel you would still get to trigger your opportunity attack anyway and also potentially reduce their speed to 0 negating their escape).
As for Retaliation, I like that as it is, it's pretty good especially since other similar abilities have a different conditions for the opportunity attack and in some cases like the Battlemaster Fighter's Riposte Maneuver cost class resources in addition to the reaction.
I have been doing my research about this ability as to how certain people feel about frenzy. I love this barbarian the most, and I've been doing this research for a long time now, and I think I've figured out the problem.
While exhaustion is the main turn off for most players, some people actually liked the exhaustion when playing into decision making when getting into their character. With this information, I decided that the berserker needed something else on top of frenzy, so I worked with a friend talking about changes to give something to the berserker while only slightly changing how frenzy works. I'll even be testing these changes in my friend's game.
Frenzy - when you use your bonus action to rage, you can make a melee attack as part of that same bonus action. Additionally, you can choose to frenzy when you rage. During your frenzy, you can make an additional attack as part of the attack action.
I love the flavor of ignoring your exhaustion while you are enraged and then you drop dead once you come to. I feel like that’s the image that the designers were going for and your edit achieves that in a better way
no, the exhaustion mechanic was meant to limit such power.
@@elgatochurro It's not power if you almost die everytime you finish using it.
@@TheSpiritsLease you stack 1 level of exhuastion at the end of each frenzy
Youd have to use this OPTIONAL AND OVERPOWERING ability literally 6 times in a day to die
4+ times a day to suffer the more life threatening effects
The developers put it in your hands just how much or little you wish to frenzy
elgatochurro except it’s not fucking worth it, a human fighter that took the duel weirder feat can do the same thing a berserker barbarian can and they don’t suffer a penalty how is that balanced?
@@hasthehighground8560 wow... you're absurdly bad at math... and proud apparently...
Dual weilders cant do what berserks can do, berserkers can free up their main actiom to dodge, dash, shove, grapple, all while making a weapon attack as a bonus action completely independent of their main action and this is with ANY WEAPON THE BARBARIAN DESIRES, so it can be a halberd or even a greatsword or greataxe. While the dual weilder will be limited to a 1d8 on both attacks.
Then you have to facter in rage damGe bonus, the possibility if reckless attack advantage and doubling ones crit chance by dice math, and then also considering half orcs are a great race for barbarians for natural brutal critical and that the barbarians will get brutal critcal twice leveling up.
The dual wielder cannot compare and this is at 3rd level... and it just gets worse from there. 5th levek gives both extra attack and the berserker will have 3 attacks of 1d12 plus strentgh plus rage bonus, doing 9 to 20 damage a swing compared to your shitty 1d8+mod each strike...
Youre just shit at math man, sorry
Ignore the effects of exhaustion while raging is just giving them the anime protagonism in final fights lmao
I agree, but it also mimics adrenaline allowing people to exceed their normal physical limits, but afterwards, suffering the exhaustion and bodily damage from basically overclocking their body.
The way I'd fix it is by making the exhaustion downsides positives while raging, but they immediately go back to negatives when the rage is over
Just imagine Exhaustion 2 instead of your speed cut in half it suddenly becomes doubled for a couple of turns, you get advantage on everything, etc etc
But you're completely useless when not raging
It's incentives you to be at the brink of death 24/7 like the myth of a berserker
How I did it was that the 1st frenzy was free and after that you have to make con saves.
And the intimidating presence I just use strength instead of charisma and only once per short rest but it’s whenever you enter a frenzy and wish to do it and use choose anyone within 30ft.
Pretty much my house rules too.
why nerf intimidating presence?
It’s the ranger in a recent UA can chose an ability that removes one level of exhaustion on a short rest
And interviews with the designers about that feature had them outright saying that that ability would never make it into the final product.
@@maxx8362 yeah it was kinda broken. Overall giving advantage against exhaustion rolls would be fine and maybe give your group this bonus too while traveling.
I would change Frenzy to say "When you enter a rage and as a bonus action on subsequent turns..." And have the later lines also say "you gain one level of exhaustion until the end of your next short rest" so Barbs can't undo exhaustion from other effects. Rage would also suspend exhaustion. Alternatively, to limit the Frenzy ability but not have the downward spiral of exhaustion, why not limit it to a number of times per a long rest equal to your Con modifier? Level 10 ability would also be based on Con and just be activated "whenever you hit someone with an attack as a bonus action" to synergize better because while choice is good, no other Barb subclass has two abilities fighting for a bonus action.
Limiting the number of Frenzies per long rest to Con mod doesn't really do much though. The average barbarian is gonna have the Con to keep Frenzying at the rate they can rage. 3 rages/LR at 3rd, 4 at 6th, 5 at 12th, 6 at 17th. On average, you've probably only ever got one rage you can't Frenzy on, which is less a mechanical impact and more just tedious bookkeeping IMO.
I'm pretty late to this video, but this is what I've been using for the past few years in my games, and it has worked out really well. It's still no Totem barbarian, but it is at least better than what the official Berserker is.
Path of the Berserker
Frenzy
Starting at 3rd level, when you take the Attack action on your turn and score a critical hit or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with a melee weapon while raging, you go into a frenzy. You can move up to half your walking speed and make an additional melee weapon attack as part of that action. You can make this attack only once per turn.
Mindless Rage
At 6th level, you can't be charmed or frightened while raging. If you are charmed or frightened when you enter your rage, the effect is suspended for the duration of the rage.
Intimidating Presence
At 10th level, when you go into a frenzy, hostile targets within 10 feet of you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw (DC equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier) or be frightened of you until the end of your next turn.
Retaliation
At 14th level, when you take damage from a creature that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against that creature.
Nah, it’s pretty much fine as is. Intimidating Presence I agree should be given the option of using Strength or Charisma, but the exhaustion is fine as is. I’ve been playing a Berserker with just those changes and it’s just fine. The Barbarian is already the single most accurate class in the game simply because you can give yourself advantage whenever you want and their damage goes through the roof at later levels. Dealing an extra %50 more damage per turn for 10 turns is ridiculous. Unless you’re fighting several battles per day or in a high-exhaustion area, then there’s not actually a problem. If you are playing in those settings, then I agree it comes up short, but there were probably a lot better options to go with in the first place anyway. Shortening the time it takes to recover exhaustion makes them borderline broken and basically makes it and several other things in the game world hold no consequences, especially is someone has the spell Catnap. Removing the exhaustion entirely makes it stupid strong and literally one of the best abilities in the game. As said; the Monk must use ki points to give themselves more attacks but their damage is far lower in many cases, fighters don’t typically have much in the way of normal class abilities anyway and rely on asi’s and several attacks to do damage, paladins have divine smite because they’d basically be a weaker cleric / fighter mix without it and there aren’t many things that can outclass that damage anyway, and rogues have to use teamwork and stealth to properly use their sneak attacks and can only make one attack per turn unless they get a feat. I get that monks and fighters get ki and action surge back on a short rest, but berserker Barbarian both narratively and mechanically must take advantage of the proper time to use their frenzy rage or else it’s wasted and they suffer the consequences. And I’d imagine that throwing yourself into a mad frenzy for a minute straight against powerful foes would exhaust you. I don’t think people fully understand how exhausting fights can be, especially when you’re literally using your entire turn to run around and attack things with all your strength on each hit for an entire minute. The berserker - coming from someone who has played it a few times - is pretty much fine as is when you look at the sheer accuracy and damage output / potential. Change it if you want, I have no problems with that, but I do like it as it stands currently.
Also a feat worth noting: Polearm Master gives you a bonus action attack every round if wielding a polearm. Granted, it's only 1d4 but it has no drawback.
its shit in comparison though... why even bother bringing it up???
@@elgatochurro Is it really though lol a d4 plus your strength mod and great weapon master is more or less the same damage as a twohanded weapon swing you could be a totem barbarian and use a glave and do the same damage as a bezerker lol.
@@noahtremblay2676 Jesus... you guys are utterly HORRID at math..."imma play a totem bear and take 2 feats and I somehow think a 1d4+5+rage is equal to the damage of 1d12+5+rage you can get at level 3 and all it costed me was 2 feats to get, so now at LEVEL FUCKIN 8 I am ready to deal good damage"
yes 1d4+mods is decent for a bonus action, especially with a two handed weapon, but its not nearly as powerful as an extra attack. Extra attacks mind you, are also exactly why most dms feel the CR balance of the game break once the players are level 5, because every martial class has now doubled their action economy in terms of attacking, and as a berserker not only do you get this at lvl 3, but its just even stronger at lvl 5 you wont even need it as much at lvl 5 but its up to you how often you wanna use it.
this isnt even getting into the barbarian core class itself as a whole and how perfectly it synergies with berserker... jesus you guys... have any of you passed basic math?
@@elgatochurro 1 d4 plus mod and rage and great weapon master is a max of 21 damage a great axe at max with it does 28 it's more or less the same lol you can't do math.
@@elgatochurro and I just did that with zero draw backs and a better class feature your way over blowing how good it is. Is it good yes is it mind blowing no and the barely noticeable drop off in damage is totally worth it for a better class feature.
If you want to avoid Intimidating presence competing with Frenzy's bonus action, you could make the frightened condition last for 1 minute, like the cause fear spell. "The creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on a success. It has disadvantage on the save if you dealt damage to it on your turn. The effect also ends if the creature ends its turn out of line of sight or more than 60 feet away from you."
I like the idea of being immune to the effects of exhaustion while raging and being able to undo a level of exhaustion after a short rest. What about requiring them to use a hit dice to do it? That way there is a cost to an ability that a barbarian can use for other things. Instead of a bonus action attack, I'd make it "When you take the attack action, you may make an additional attack with the same weapon at disadvantage." That way you are getting the additional attack (like monks) but you are offsetting the fact you have a weapon with making it less likely you will hit.
My 2 cents
Frenzy - If you are wielding a weapon in one hand and none in the other or while wielding a two-handed weapon, you can make a melee attack as part of your action. Once your rage ends you gain one level of exhaustion. However, while you are raging you are immune to the effects of exhaustion.
I had the same idea as you(when raging you don't suffer the effects of exhaustion)when I made this for my barb player. Then i made it part of an action, so that you can have extra attack at lv 3 or something like shove + attack. I felt like this gave the player way more options on what to do while in combat since barb mostly has only attack or recklessly attack as an option. I also didn't want this to be used with dual wielding, dunno 4 reckless attacks at lv5 somehow felt too overbearing. 3 is quite strong but it doesn't increase after this point.
Intimidating Presence - the only two things I changed here were;
1) instead of an action, it is a bonus action
2) the dc modifier is con. Con or str is just too good.
Overall, OP I know but much more fun, and the player was never bored in combat. The other players never complained about him being so powerfull during rage, since they always had to save his ass when he started being useless. They were more happy about it quoting iron man in avengers; "we have a hulk"
Yeah the Berserker Barbarian is rough. Great for flavor but mechanically it’s tough.
get good then.
elgatochurro ?
@@hasthehighground8560 get good then, learn the game more.
elgatochurro That has nothing to do with exhaustion being a penalty not worth the benefit
@Barry Clown learn math please
Having a Berserker actually gives a nice challenge and real agency. Plus you can get some extra days of Downtime, to do stuff. It’s also convenient if your a somewhat busy person and can’t make it to every session.
So is it just me or does the word suspend mean the duration of the charm or frightening effect would stop but it would then resume with the same remaining duration as when you started reading
I would rework Frenzy as "When you use your bonus action to go into a rage, you can choose to go into a Frenzy. On each of your turns after the one that you use this ability, you may make one additional Weapon attack as part of your Attack action. When your rage ends, You must roll a Constitution Saving Throw (DC= 8+Con mod+ Proficiency). On a Failure, You gain one level of exhaustion. In addition, you no longer suffer the effects of Exhaustion while you are Raging." For Intimidating Presence, it would be "you can use your action to frighten someone with your menacing presence. When you do so, choose one creature that you can see within 30feet of you. If the creature can see or hear you, it must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw (DC equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier) or be frightened of you until the end of your next turn. On subsequent turns, you can use your Bonus action to extend the duration of this effect on the frightened creature until the end of your next turn. This effect ends if the creature ends its turn out of line of sight or more than 60 feet away from you. If the creature succeeds on its saving throw, you can't use this feature on that creature again for 24 hours."
Barbarians are a very strong class, other archetypes get cool stuff that could be toned down and no one would notice since the class is just strong as is.
While power wise it's completely fine even in this poor state , it's a mess compared to other archetypes so it deserves some love.
What i would do is :
trying to make the mechanics reflect the Berserker's Idea:
1:
" While you are raging you can go into a Frenzy rage by spending 20 ft. of your movement and immediately make an additional melee attack, you can make one as a bonus action on each of your turns after this one"
(I mean , if you wanna RAGE over the Rage you gotta stand still and scream at someone , eventually you are going to have 40ft. so not too drastic) .
This way you can use the second attack on your first turn if you are not too far away.
2:
"IF your Frenzy rage is interrupted prematurely you get a level of exhaustion" .
So you you get exhausted only when your Rage is broken .
3
I would then swap intimidating presence for midless rage , ( i know i know but hear me out) , Intimidating presence would activate when you go into Frenzy and you would get full movement against someone who didn't save against the DC , so you can play your dammn charismatic screamy barbarian without feeling a meme .
MIndless rage at 10 would help you not getting kiked out of rage to avoid exhaustion , i would remove the "suspended thing " because that sounds silly.
What do you guys think about this?
>>> Escalating Frenzy >>>>
Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can choose go into a frenzy when you rage. If you do so, choose what level of frenzy you enter. For the duration of your rage each melee weapon attack you make has bonus damage equal to your frenzy level, up to a maximum of five. When your rage ends, you suffer one level of exhaustion per level of frenzy used.
At level 11 you can frenzy up to level 6, subsequently granting you 6 levels of exhaustion when your rage ends. Doing so triggers your "Relentless Rage" ability.
You don't suffer from the effects of exhaustion while raging. You recover from exhaustion at twice the normal rate starting at level 3, and three times the normal rate starting at level 11.
I like the idea of making the 3rd/bonus attack a free action while raging. That way you get at least 3 attacks per turn. Then when you consider additional options, like GWM or multiclassing into Fighter for two-weapon fighting when dual wielding (very specific, I know), you'd get 4 attacks per round. If you further the latter option and get Action Surge, you'd probably be the scariest thing in combat. Not to mention something just crazily attacking rapidly while appearing rabid, really meshes out the aesthetic and power fantasy of a 'berserker' more if you ask me.
It's called playing a fighter
Youd already be the scariest thing just being vanilla berserker
@@elgatochurro Here is the thing. Having Great Weapon Mastery as a feat is basically required for a barbarian. And yet half of it's ability is gone when I go into a frenzy, and there are weapons that give you the same ability! Without the downside of exhaustion. A Scimitar of Speed, a Dancing Sword, both of those items allow you to do a bonus action attack. And then there is polearm master which while it only does a D4 it gives you an extra attack without any downside.
@@crazyscotsman9327 so the berserker... having that benefit every turn during frenzy... somehow makes it bad? Even though you can still -5 for additional 10 damage an extra time every attack you make?
What weapons give you that ability? Yeah and those arent great two handed weapons... you have their ability at level 3 and beyond everytime you rage if you wanna use it... why are you complaining about it? Its like saying "oh i dont need spiritual weapon cause i can possibly find a weapon of speed" when you legit have a better option as part of the class... "i dont need the staff of healing, im already a healer"
Its a d4... not a d12, learn to use math properly... honestly all you people are making it seems like you've yet to even pass simple elementry math...
Like what if i told you "oooo well if i take polearm mastery i have a bonus action and gwf doesnt let me use my 1d4 when i get to use my 1d10 halberd as a bonus action, so gwf is bad"
@@elgatochurro Let me explain it to you again. It doesn't require Exhaustion. Those items do not give you any downsides, and a Dancing Sword can be any sword your dm want's to give you. That is my problem with it the penalty is higher then it should be.
Sure polearm master is a direct downgrade in dmg during that one fight. But the guy using polearm master can literally do that every single fight no problem. Where as with the Berserker you have one maybe 2 uses of it before you are fucked. And sure GWM's bonus action attack only works on a kill or a crit but that still stands it can be replicated without going into a Frenzy. And this is their signature ability.
For a single fight there is nothing scarier then a Berserker barbarian. (I personally play a Berserker Barbarian in Organized play, just a human berserker barbarian with 4 levels of fighter) and he chops through anything in his path with casual ease. During the one time I use Frenzy for that adventure. I might have 3 or 4 fights but I only frenzy once. See where I am going with this?
But here we have another thing to consider, the competition that the Berserker Barbarian has with the other subclasses. 1 The Totem Warrior Barbarian, or 2 the Zealot barbarian, who both have Rage abilities at the same power if not stronger then the Berserker without the downsides of the exhaustion penalty. Those guys can use their signature rage ability as many times as they have rages.
So I see two options, make the penalty of Exhaustion worthwhile, such as the Frenzy granting an extra attack as apart of the Attack action. (So you know you can use it the same round you start your Rage. And so you have plenty of options like say be a duel wielder instead of the standard great axe wielding one.) Or two give you a chance to avoid the exhaustion penalty with a Con save.
As it is exhaustion is just so fucking penalizing that it isn't worth frenzying alot. There are only two ways to remove multiple levels of exhaustion. 1) Greater Restoration a fucking 5th level spell! Or a Potion of Vitality an item that easily is going to be in the 1k+ range of gold.
@@crazyscotsman9327 its shit in comparison though, thats why frenzy has exhaustion. its only condition is you must be raging and itll be over once rage ends, its main limiting facter is exhaustion... meanwhile GWM is restricted to only when you down a foe or crit... comparing that to "for the rest of the fight" is laughable honestly... a full fight... vs 1 round maybe, maybe 2...
"THIS LEGENDARY ITEM IS BETTER" ... should i even be taking you seriously???
1d4+str+rage is nothing comapred to 1d12+str+rage+reckless attacks+GWM+chances to crit+brutal critical... so 3d4+str+rage vs.... 3d12+str+rage... on one attack... which is better? ofc, frenzy...
Again GWM is a one turn thing and is very chance based... so idk why youre acting like that compares AT ALL to "the rest of your rage" which could end up being 10 turns.
you're really bad at math... and your dms not even following the rules well... sure he can do as he pleases but an adventuring day is supposed to be around 6-8 fights... not 3... so this point doesnt even matter...
"make the penalty of Exhaustion worthwhile" as if it isnt already... all ive done is homebrew its first bonus action attack to be a free action when you go into rage.
you can homebrew that too, if you're a pansy and feel being the strongest martial subclass in the game isnt enough for just one little level of exhuastion.
exhaustion penalty: sleep it off on long rests, has penalties
barbarian core class features: we counter those penalties outright with movement speed boosts, advantage on almost everything you need as a combative class, even on your attacks themselves.
lets go over exhaustion adn how the berserker and barbarian class work in perfect harmony to offset the consequences of exhaustion:
level 1 - disadvantage on skill checks (offset by the fact the barbarian isnt about skill checks, let alone the berserker, the most offensive subclass of the combat oriented class). at most you might need certain skill checks but barbarian rage gives advantage on athletics, and later at level 7 the barbarian gets advantage on initiative checks offsetting that as well...
level 2 - speed halved, for most races this means 15 feet, for small folk and dwarves itll be a slow 10... aight, you got me here, using frenzy twice a day slows your speed... what're you gonna do right? well barbarians get a +10 movement speed just for being level 5. so now its 20 feet for most, and 15 feet for dwarves and small folk. 20 is still very decent, and again, as a berserker frenzied barbarian you can dash on your action and still attack, if you're not frenzying you can still dash and get the opportunity attack or force a disengage action from your enemy.
level 3 - disadvantage on all attacks... now its over, the combat class is lacking in combat... but you have had 3 frenzies in just ONE DAY... plus if you still wanted to go further there's the dodge reckless attack option... or reckless attack, anyways the barbarian class itself also offsets this consequence, besides your rage gives you resistance to all physical damage... amazing...
level 4 - hit point maximum halved... as the class that gets the biggest hit dice, and boosts their con a bunch, and gets multiple abilities to just halve most damage dealt to them... still at level 4 exhaustion youve had 4 frenzies in one day most likely, and you're really overexerting yourself... exhaustion is a resource the berserker should manage.
so there we go, most levels of exhaustion, which are not only just removed a level at a time upon long rest, are also countered by the barbarian's main class features. its like the berserker was specifically meant for the barbarian class. and again, most of what we talked about was jsut frenzy, the berserker is much more than frenzy but its also got frenzy, the most powerful martial ability in the game, for the most powerful combat subclass in the game, for the most offensive martial class in the game... and you think it needs BUFFS
I think the best way to fix this is just have the levels of exhaustion from frenzy fall off after ten minutes. That way you can stack up multiple levels of it and there is a trade off to go into the frenzy for the added power but you can still play the game. Instead of taking a short rest if you just stopped and took a breather youd be gtg again. I think there was barb or fighter classes in 2nd that functioned like this and maybe even how the rage worked in 3rd? I do like the change you suggested to Intimidating presence though and the idea of ignoring exhaustion while raging makes a lot of sense too. That way even with the ten minute timer of rage if you immediately start fighting again you can rage to get around the exhaustion.
My current favourite character right now is a Large Gnoll Berserker (my DM loves letting us mess around with homebrew, so I always have to restrain myself to not let things get too out of hand), but I agree that the whole thing about the frenzy penalty being awful, and that the bonus it grants is depressingly lessened by the existence of GWM. You do raise an interesting point in that you will always be able to use that bonus action attack whether you attack or not, but even so I've felt berserking should be more "mindless." When theorycrafting for how to make my character slightly more powerful (which I definitely didn't need, but our paladin can use two spells per turn so whatever), I definitely wanted the berserker's bonus action to be freed up as well, because I liked having GWM open and (as a Gnoll) it felt wrong that I couldn't rampage. One of my first ideas was that they make an extra attack during the attack action, but the capability to eventually use 4 GWM attacks (5, if provoking an opportunity attack) with a large weapon (2d6 + 1d4 or a 2d8 greatsword, think Berserk), all with reckless attack's advantage and the bonus rage damage? That was probably not something Wizards had ever intended, and I felt it broke the character. I haven't actually gotten to do this yet, but I recently asked my DM if I could change the ability to this:
Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can go into a frenzy when you rage. When you do so, and at the start of each of your turns for the duration of your rage, you must make a Wisdom saving throw to maintain control. The DC equals 10 or half of the total damage you’ve taken from attacks since the start of your last turn, whichever number is higher; you can choose to fail this saving throw if you wish. On a failed save, you must use your reaction to move directly towards the nearest creature to you which you can sense and make a single melee weapon attack against that creature. If there is more than one possible target, the DM chooses which one you engage. You then regain control for the remainder of your turn.
If you have taken fire damage since the beginning of your last turn, you automatically fail this saving throw.
Until you succeed on this saving throw, you may not choose to end your rage prematurely.
At the end of it it still causes exhaustion, but I've also made it that if he takes fire damage when he's not frenzied, he immediately needs to make the same WIS save or trigger his frenzy. The reason for the whole fire thing is because the character's got this whole trauma with paladins that razed his village. It's all standard edgy anti-hero stuff, y'feel? There's also this wild coincidence that every father figure he's ever had (both in backstory and among the other PCs) has died horrifically in flames, and it's sorta been a running gag between me and the party.
I really love the concept of being able to ignore the effects of exhaustion while Frenzied though. That's fucking sick. Pardon the language.
As for Intimidating Presence. Yeah. I would hate this a lot more if I didn't already have an 18 in CHA because of the godlike luck with my stat rolls. I've thought of a lot of these-- from making it work like Sleep to making it literally just giving myself Cause Fear (CHA casting)-- but I settled on this:
Intimidating Presence can be triggered when you enter rage or reduce a target to 0
They must be at least 60ft away OR out of line of sight to even attempt the saving throw.
If they are within movement speed + weapon reach, frenzy prioritises them.
Otherwise, it is unchanged. I do really like the idea of it taking a bonus action, because a guaranteed 3 attacks while frenzied is better than a possible 2, but I think I have to limit myself here.
Now you might be wondering, "Hey seiz, if you made Frenzy a reaction, then what's the point of Retaliation?"
And to that I say "path of the beast is the juiciest thing in the world and you could not pry my hands from that 14th level ability with a crowbar." Even with the uselessness of applying advantage against fear on a berserker, this ability waters my crops and tills my soil.
It's a shame that boy's only level 8.
Make the extra attack when raging part of the attack action, and remove exhaustion. Problem solved. That the extra attack is a bonus action makes no sense at all since he cant use, ruled as written, great weapon master extra attack on crit or two weapon fighting.
This is why when I DM, WTF extra off hand attack is part of the attack action, and berserker attack as well, giving them a potential of 4 attacks per turn at level 3, which yes is powerful early level but levels out later on, especially since they totally lack all the powerful abilities the other barbarian classes have. That they did not fix this class is beyond me as its, on paper, extremly weak compared to the rest. But again, as per above, easy fixes to this problem. Also, Intimidation can be both strenght or charisma.
I used to run the whole idea that raging suspends exhaustion and you can't gain levels in exhaustion while raging. However, after this video and reading the comments, I decided to try a different route. It all stays the same, but remove the general exhaustion gain, and instead if you enter a frenzy rage a number of times equal to the number of rages you have, you suffer one level of exhaustion. Adding a cap on the ability retains its theme of pushing past your limits/throwing caution to the wind, and it scales similar to proficiency bonus features that WotC seem to be leaning towards nowadays. I really like the idea of pushing past a limit, which is why I personally like the idea of exhaustion remaining, but make it less intrusive on the subclass' style.
I love this Barbarian subclass cause it's definitely a good risk/reward subclass, reminds me a lot of One For All in My Hero Academia. With that in mind, I really like the idea of ignoring the affects of Exhaustion while Frenzy Raging, I think that's a great fix, and I loved your whole idea about it--battling a long fight and they collapsing after it's over, great thematic idea there--and I'm definitely going to add that addendum in my PHB for my next campaign, as well as the Intimating Presence as a bonus action, that is a great fix too.
Thanks for the video!
I like the idea of choosing to Frenzy for the duration of your rage. You can use your bonus action to make an extra melee attack, and you gain a level of exhaustion when you exit your rage.
A Frenzy fix is simple. DC 10 Con save afterwards or gain the exhaustion. +5 to the DC each time you frenzy again. Reset the DC on a long rest.
I would remove the "bonus action" attack and make it an extra attack when you take the attack action. In this way, it can work with Dual Wielding barbarians, that are quite rare, even if pretty thematic. Nevertheless, removing the Exhaustion mechanics would make it too broken IMHO. I would oblige the barbarian to have a Con Saving throw at the end of the Frenzy, starting with DC= 10. If they succeed, they do not get the exhaustion level. Regardless if they succeed or fail, the DC increases by 5 for the next time they enter a Frenzy. Each time they "Frenzy up", increase the DC by 5. The DC resets to 10 after a long rest.
I would make the frightening ability apply when they go into a frenzy rage and extend when they hit the person with the extra attack. The abilities should stack on each other not compete. I would just give them an extra attack with the attack action while raging or an extra action they can use to move or attack while raging.
the way I'd make it would be:
3- you can enter frenzy at any point during rage, while frenzying you can do a bonus action attack, you ignore the effects of exaustion while raging, you cant gain exaustion while frenzying, frenzy gives you 1 level of exaustion when it ends + whenever you rage but not frenzy you lose 1 level of exaustion at the end of the rage, you can lose exaustion this way only a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus per long rest
6 - mindless rage remains the same except entering a frenzy also flat out ends charm and fear effects on you + while rageing you can now dash as a bonus action, but if you do you must run the extra 30 feet towards an enemy you can see within 60 feet of you
10 - intimidating pressense is now done as a bonus action, you may use your strength modifier while raging instead of charisma, and it adds +2 to the DC while frenzying (or alternativebly if this isnt too strong, add +2 while raging, and add your str modifier on top of cha when frenzying) + when raging you have +1 on attack rolls for each level of exaustion you have
14- you can now do your previously obtained bonus actions as part of entering your rage + retaliation now has multiple options that allow you to do your previously obtained bonus actions as a reaction: the attack now has a range equal to your reach + when a creature within 30 feet of you attacks you you can use an intimidating pressense reaction + when a creature you can see within 60 feet of you damages, you can move 30 feet towards that creature
-
with this the beserker basically becomes a resource based subclass where your resources are (in the order that you obtain them/they begin to matter): your number of rages, your number of exaustion recovery, your bonus action, your level of exaustion, your reaction
and the passives you obtain along the way help aliviate this need to allocate limited resources to your bonus action/reaction of choice
If they want a downside make the downside what frenzy actually means.... uncontrolled. Make it opposite of the wolf totem. Allies want to be close to the wolf totem, give them a reason to stay away from this barbarian. On a critical failure they hit allies within 5ft, because he/she’s so reckless. Or when the barbarian attacks, allies within 5ft of the barbarian take his str mod in damage. Or the barbarian is so wild that he gives you disadvantage in melee to hit the target of his attacks.
I've only recently come across this video, but here's the fix I came up with
when you rage, you enter either a regular rage or a frenzied rage, choose when you enter the rage. if you enter a frenzied rage, you can take the Attack action as a bonus action. if you do enter a frenzied rage, you gain a level of exhaustion when your rage ends.
it's a high impact, high drawback feature. once you're at level 5, you're making 4 attacks, but taking exhaustion to do so.
I'd also tweak the intimidating presence to be off of Con, as you basically release a bellow. it'd still be an action, but because we've got the bonus action Attack action, it's effectively as a bonus action.
I like your suggested fix, but personally, I think there might be a more creative way to go about fixing this class. I would suggest:
Frenzy
Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you go into a frenzy when you rage which allows you to deal even greater amounts of damage to your enemies at the cost of your own body. For the duration of your rage whenever you roll damage for a melee weapon attack, you can roll a hit die and add it the number rolled to the damage.
Intimidating Presence
Beginning at 10th level, waves of menace pour off of you when you rage. When you enter your rage, you can choose a number of creature that you can see within 30 feet of you up to your Constitution modifier (minimum of 1). If the creatures can see or hear you, they must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw (DC equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier) or be frightened of you until the end of your rage. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success.
If the creature succeeds on its saving throw, you can't use this feature on that creature again for 24 hours.
I know Frenzy still has a down side in this iteration, but the feature will get better the further into the class you get, and these to features together will make your reckless attack truly terrifying. However, I am also bandying about the idea of spending a hit die to treat the damage roll of an attack as if it rolled max.
I don't like the bonus action because it keeps me from running a two axe berserker, I say it is made to say this:
When you rage you can frenzy as apart of doing so you gain one level of exhaustion the effects of which are suspended when you rage, while in a frenzy you have one extra action that can only be use for either a single attack action or a dash action.
At level 10 instead of intimidating presence, you gain relentless endurance you can ignore up to your con mod in levels of exhaustion, upon reaching 6 exhaustion you still die as normal.
So basically frenzy is a non magically version of the haste action
@@mavoc3094 yes basically I think that's worth the exhaustion at low levels.
One minor downside about berserker I dislike is the bonus action attack makes dual weilding Barbs redundant. Yes I know, barbs often prefer heavy weapons, but I also like the imagery of big buff barbarians with a weapon in each hand like say, kratos. but I also like that the bonus action attack frees up your action for if you need to do other things, like Dodge or dash. I'd say either make where they get an extra attack as part of the attack action, or the bonus action allows for *two* attacks like flurry of blows, so dual wield barbs still get a benefit. You could say it's too powerful for the cost at that point, but you could always put a limit, either to the number of times you can frenzy, or the number of times you can take this bonus action. Maybe you can use the bonus action a number of times equal to con mod, but every use past that gives a level of exhaustion. Could then synergize well with a high level ability to ignore exhaustion.
Also, intimidating presence should grant expertise in intimidation. But thats just me thinking the game needs more use of the expertise mechanic.
making the Berserker make an extra attack when taking the attack action is absolutely OP. imagine a Polearm barbarian berserker, that can now do 3d10 + STR*4 + Rage*4 +1d4 AND has a possible extra attack with his reaction AND can still gain an extra attack from Haste (with a potions or a caster ally). all thoose attacks are made with advantage and making 4 to 6 attacks with advantage means statistically 1 crit per turn is very likely (range beetwen 35 and 50%).... an extra attack as a bonus action is strong and the berserker is the only class that can gain it that easily and that can use two-handed weapons with it. I think the only downsize is the fact that it conflicts a bit with GW Master feat bonus action attack. I think that making the berserker able to cancel a single exhaustion level on a short rest,(maybe only once per day, i don't know) could already be a great fix. or maybe add a passive- always present ability tied to frenzy that is similar to GW master feat, such as: " during your frenzy, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to an attack to get a bonus to damage equal to twice your CON or STR modifier" or a fixed number, so that the berserker has a similar-GW Master effect and his exhaustion downside is mitigated by being the only barbarian without the need of GW master
Frenzy
Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can enter a frenzy when you rage. If you do so, for the duration of your rage you can make an extra attack when you take the attack action. When your rage ends, make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw. On a failure, you gain a level of exhaustion.
Everytime you use this feature after the first, the DC increases by 5. On a short or long rest, the DC resets to 10.
as a beserker, you hone your recovery to regain exhaustion levels from raging. you remove 1 level of exhaustion due to raging per hour. ?
and i like the idea of intimidation while raging and based off cha OR str and a bonus to maintain. also, the extra attack should just be added in and not a bonus. at 3rd level, if you are going to suffer exhaustion, you should get that attack.
Personally I would make it that Frenzying costs a hit die. Still has long term consequences but isn't debilitating.
Completely rework intimidate. Personally, I don't see intimidation as tied to being a berserker, not anymore than it is tied to any other subclass. If it has to be a non-damaging ability, I would give even more resistance to mind controlling magic and illusions and maybe even psychic damage too, cement the berserker as the anti magic barbarian subclass.
Honestly, I feel that fear feels very in theme, a rabid warrior hacking into everything in reach through a mad frenzy is a terrifying psychological weapon, and mindless rage is more a reference to a blind, unthinking, rage where you're not thinking enough to be mentally controlled.
While I like the roleplay with this subclass, I think this is one of the worst classes for heavy dungeon-clawing campaigns. I am playing a Berserker Barbarian who seeks revenge and rage and anger have become his source of power and I am having tons of joy, but the campaign is urban and more about investigating and heavy RP, with almost no dungeon clawing and very spread combats and it works well, because exhaustion is not a thing to be worry about.
I will always think that the RP is way more important than the game mechanics itself, if you like a class because you like it, go for it.
A few way Ive seen is:
to roll con and on a fail you gain a level of exhaustion. It increase by 5 every time used.
or make it a short/long rest recovery like a chase.
I feel Frenzy should not give exhaustion at all but should be on a specific trigger. If you are half health or if you lose 20-30% of your health in a single round while raging, you enter frenzy at the beggining of your next turn. Feels like a way to balance it and give some narrative and enjoyement for the players when he get hit hard or when things start going south, he's going to get more out of the situation and makes the ennemies payback for it.
My feeling is that I want the frenzy to grant the Berserker a blanket rage boost (as is the design philosophy of every Barbarian's 3rd level feature) while affording them a capacity to go absolutely nuts in extreme circumstances. The PHB obviously fails in the former goal while only partially succeeding in the latter. Optimal use dictates you will use it only in the last combat of the day. While being likely to be the most deadly, it may not turn out to be deadly at all, but you will simply have used frenzy at the beginning of the adventuring-day-ender no matter what. Sorry, but "fuck it I may as well use this ability" is NOT the vibe I have of this archetype.
I like something along the lines of granting a limited number of bonus action attacks per short rest with no lasting consequences. Once these have been expended, you can continue to use them in exchange for exhaustion levels or the chance of exhaustion through saving throws. If the combat is really that intense, you may well quickly rack up exhaustion points, adequately simulating the barbarian reaching deeper and deeper into their rage at consequence to their well-being. This could happen at any time of the day, and it ultimately will be up to the player when getting more damage in will be worth accepting more exhaustion.
Naturally I am in favor of enhancing removing levels of exhaustion, especially when we are creating the chance for a single intense combat to absolutely wipe out a berserker. A good idea I have seen is spending 3 hit dice in a short rest to remove a level of exhaustion. This way there is a nontrivial cost to removing it, it keys off an expendable resource making the tactic of cheesy sequential short rests impossible, and your capacity to remove exhaustion via short rest will scale as you level. From there perhaps removing two levels in long rests is good. It seems likely here that maintaining exhaustion after the long rest interval will only happen after the highest tier of deadly combat, something I think most will agree is actively a good thing for the class.
My idea to fix this... Is to give the Berserker another ability at level 3, that lets them (at the start of their turn, no action required) spend hit-dice to cure themselves of various conditions (such as poisoned, charmed, frightened, and exhaustion, maybe adding paralyzed, stunned or petrified to the list at higher levels?).
This way we keep the idea of an unstoppable Berserker, throwing all caution to the wind in favor of destroying their enemies while still having something of a cost (hit-points are arguably a Barbarians most valuable resource, and removing an avenue of getting them back makes it a worthwhile decision).
Nah, I pumped up my player's Berserker.
Frenzy: Starting at 3rd level, you can choose to go into a frenzied rage. While frenzied, if you hit with an attack, you may attack again as a free action. This lasts until your first miss.
Intimidating presence got thrown out. Replaced with:
Tireless: While raging, you may ignore all effects of exhaustion for the duration of the rage.
My player turned into a _blender_ and loved it.
So from what I'm hearing (and from my perspective) the Berserker Barbarian features should look like this:
Frenzy: Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can go into a frenzy when you rage. If you do so, for the duration of your rage you can make one additional melee attack when taking the attack action on your turn.(OR: on the turn you enter a frenzy you get one additional melee attack when you take the attack action, on subsequent turns until your rage ends you may use your bonus action to make a single melee attack) When your rage ends, you suffer one level of exhaustion. In addition, during your rages you do not experience the effects of exhaustion.
(I like the first option better, as it doesn't exclude GWM, and I think that while it seems a little crazy, attacking a lot is kind of the Berserker's whole deal, so it's fine if they can just do it, Monks and Fighters are both going to outstrip them long term. Plus with keeping the exhaustion it's still a trade off.)
Mindless Rage:
Beginning at 6th level, you can't be charmed or frightened while raging. If you are charmed or frightened when you enter your rage, the effect is suspended for the duration of the rage. In addition, while raging you are now resistant to psychic damage. (
or you could get good
@@elgatochurro Lol, I play one without these changes, got to level 15 with her so far, and she's my favorite character. I just think these changes would make the Archetype better.
@@Lurklen i feel its almost too strong as it is but people are just scared of exhuastion
@@elgatochurro Depends, if it got the resistances the Bear gets it would be pretty OP, but my Barb can get pretty chewed up by casters and elemental damage types. And depending on the kind of game you're playing that exhaustion mechanic can basically make you useless after a few hard fights, or need to nap all the time. I played through Out of the Abyss, and rest was hard to come by, so if the circumstances were at all likely that I wasn't gonna be able to offset exhaustion, I'd hold off on my Frenzy, which seemed silly because it was most of the reason I picked the archetype.
I think the simplest change, that thematically makes the most sense, is just making it so exhaustion doesn't affect you while raging. That allows for you to be effective in combat, but also suffer for your extra attacks, and you can strategize a little more.
It's also just cool that berserker of high enough level could Frenzy themselves to death, very on brand, and it's actually tempting to push that line because not being exhausted while Raging means you're still effective.
@@Lurklen the barbarian cire class features specifically counter exhuastion up to and including lvl 4 exhuastion
What I first thought of adding to the Berzerker was that, if you choose to enter Frenzy, you don't spend that use of your rage
Just multiclass with the variant class feature Ranger to pick up Tireless at first level, allowing you a 1d10+wis temporary hitpoints times your wisdom mod per day and allows you to REDUCE ONE POINT OF EXHAUSTION PER SHORT REST.
That's what it was. I couldn't remember. Thanks!
So long as your DM allows UA, sure. Thats what i thought too.
And loose one of the best capstones (yes i'm aware most ppl don't get to 20, but classes should be able to work on their own, also UA)
Berserker would be nice... if exhaustion wasn't the most sticky status ailment (beating out death). Not even the COLD SLEEP OF DEATH can end someone exhaustion. If you get True Resurrection on someone who died of exhaustion, they are still exhausted TO NEAR DEATH.
Exhaustion is terrifying. Not even Grim can save you from it.
I think the best way to fix berserker would do what was suggested by Space Dinosaur that you only gain the level of exhaustion if you don't already have exhaustion and also the no exhaustion effects during rage. Tho, it would be easier just remove the exhaustion bit from the Frenzy. While many think it's too good... well maybe at level 3. Many fights last around 4-5 rounds and one of those goes to raging and maybe one while no enemies around, so you end up 2-3 extra attacks during the fight. Also if the barbarian has GWM, they would most likely get few extra attacks anyways.
I think it's a bad way of thinking when one considers that every feature should be amazing. Some of the features are ribbon abilities to balance out that some others are better. If Intimidating Presence is buffed, Berserker has four really good ones where the other barbarians have some hot garbage in there. The IP definitely should be with Strength or Constitution instead of Charisma. I think one reason why the IP is action is that there are no subsequent saving throws. Frightening creatures is surprisingly good as even creatures like dragons aren't immune to it.
I thoroughly dislike having to use actions/bonus actions to maintain ongoing effects that don't provide a new result. Such as Call Lightning, you can choose to use an action to call a new bolt of lightning. Having to use an action each turn just to keep someone frightened feels like hot garbage, especially only one person. And even if it was actually a strong effect it would still be soured by having to spend actions subsequently just to maintain the same thing.
Ya, especially since a 3rd level fighter can use Menacing attack hitting one dude, adding an extra d8 of dmg, and having the dc equal to 8+prof+dex or strength.
You could make it that you can remove a level of exhaustion a number of times equal to your constitution modifier?
Also for the dc for the fear effect it could be your strength modifier instead of charisma.
I too believe in removing all limits of a class, like fighters action surging adn second winding every turn without expending reasources.
limits be dammed
elgatochurro why would you do that that’s making the classes op, gains exhaustion isn’t worth attacking as a bonus action it just isn’t you’d literally attack as a bonus action once per long rest,
or you could get good.
elgatochurro Getting good has nothing to do with it
How would you feel about swapping the Exhaustion for the lethargy of Haste? "When your frenzied rage ends, you can't move or take actions until after your next turn, as a wave of lethargy sweeps over you."
Pretty big drawback if your rage ends early in the middle of combat, but it makes sense that if you're gonna over-exert yourself like that, then you can't just suddenly stop without shocking your system a bit.
I know this is rather late, but what if. If it was changed to when you enter frenzy you make may take the attack action as a bonus action instead.
Or
When raging you may enter a Frenzy, you may now take the attack action as a bonus action instead, while you frenzy, ignore all levels of exhaustion.
When frenzy ends roll a DC10 + level of Exhaustion, if you fail gain a level of Exhaustion.
I agree that there needs to be a better way to remove exhaustion, but I like the feel of you keep fighting even when your are dead.
Have you put up a fixed version on D&D Beyond? I’d use that as a homebrew version.
I can do that eventually
@nerd immersion itd be good if as a habit you did. People appreciate that sort of thing being easily implemented (myself included) especially as lots of your videos are beyond based
it really doesnt need buffs at all, idk why you're all scared to shit over some exhaustion
I think making an extra attack as part of your attack action while raging makes the most sense, especially when paired with the frequency that barbarians take Great Weapon Master, and my thought of just making the level 10 ability use only bonus actions.
I think the exhaustion is really meant to flavor the idea of how taxing a frenzy is, but if a "frenzied rage" were to be kept, I think it would work better as a limit on the number of frenzies you can enter each day before taking exhaustion. I haven't played a barbarian or looked into homebrewing subclasses for them, so I don't know when the max number of rages goes up, but maybe setting it equal to half your con mod would be good, or allowing the berserker to rage past the set number of rages but incur levels of exhaustion for each rage beyond the limit?
If we're going to give a downside as potent as exaustion, the upside has to be worth it.
Just give one free attack. The attack is free (isn't an action, nor a bonus action, nor a reaction) and doesn't get tangled up with other features.
It's called Frenzy after all.
Honestly, I think the biggest issue with a Berserker barbarian is its extra weapon attack requiring a bonus action. GWM gives the same benefit on a crit or reducing a creature to 0 hp, and GWM is a must-have feat for Barbarians. So Frenzy just becomes being able to make that extra bonus action weapon attack a *little* more consistently. And then you gain a level of exhaustion when your rage ends.
So you get a class feature that competes with something that is part of a feat you would want to take anyway if you care about optimal damage output. Which is one of the only reasons to consider Berserker, outside of wanting to play a barbarian with as little flavor as possible. It’s just very messy within the action economy, and it overbalances the class.
Seriously, the exhaustion cost is a neat mechanic and forces you to think strategically about whether to use it, but it hardly seems worth it for a benefit that you would get a decent amount of times anyway from just using GWM one level later.
As someone who has looked at playing a berserker, that’s been one of my bigger hang-ups. I can deal with the exhaustion cost if it’s worth the benefit, but Frenzy only seems like it would he worth it against a big, spongy enemy you need the dependable extra attack per round against. And even THEN, by the time you have Extra Attack, that’s a 20% chance every round to score a crit and get the bonus action weapon attack from GWM anyway.
And I can see many others in the comments likewise honing in on this as the issue. If you’re dual wielding, the offhand attack is a bonus action. If you’re using a polearm or a heavy weapon, you have polearm master and GWM’s bonus action attacks.
Some other barbs also have this issue to an extent, but many of their bonus action abilities 1.) proc when you first enter rage, and 2.) have more interesting effects than just getting an extra weapon attack that they could get from GWM anyway.
I mean instead of removing negatives why not just increase positives? Power balance by buffing instead of nurfing.
Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can go into a frenzy once per short rest, costing no action. If you do so, you are treated as being under the effects of your Barbarian Rage for 1 minute. This does not cost a use of your Barbarian Rage feature. During this frenzy you may make a single melee weapon attack using your bonus action. When you make this attack you may also roll 1d6 and gain specific benefits for this turn. At the end of this frenzy you suffer 1 point of exhaustion.
1- You deal extra damage with the frenzy bonus action attack equal to your proficiency modifier.
2- Your movement for the remainder of the turn does not provoke opportunity attacks.
3- You may expend a hit die and roll it to regain hit points equal to the roll + your Constitution modifier.
4- You take the dash action as part of the frenzy bonus action attack.
5- You take the dodge action as part of the frenzy bonus action attack.
6- You gain the benefit of your choice from this list.
Added a bit of randomness to frenzy which personally makes sense to me.
Limited it to 1 frenzy per short rest but to use frenzy is free so you can bonus action attack right away. I'd play it. Then again my barbarian is using darts with sharpshooter so meh.
Nothing can fix intimidating presence. It's just broken and dumb.
My take on this subclass is that Frenzy doesn't give enough value worth taking the level of exhaustion, and Intimidating Presence feels very lackluster to be a 10th level class feature. My idea is to give the barbarian an ability to have a little extra spike damage during a frenzy by upping the Rage Damage bonus and adding versatility by giving a bonus action dash. Intimidating Presence feels like it should be something gained at 3rd level and improved upon later. I also feel like Charisma is the appropriate modifier for the DC since it's the base modifier for the Intimidation skill. So without trying to break the action economy or removing exhaustion and attempting to create something that feels like what you would find in the PHB..here's me throwing my hat into the ring:
Frenzy
Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can go into a frenzy whenever you go into a rage or while already in a rage. If you do so, for 1 minute or until your rage ends (whichever is shorter) your Rage Damage Bonus is doubled and you may use your Bonus Action to make a single melee weapon attack or to use the Dash action. When your rage ends, you suffer one level of exhaustion.
Intimidating Presence
At 3rd level, you gain the ability to instill fear in your enemies. As an action or whenever you go into a rage, creatures you choose within 10 feet of you that can see or hear you, must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw (DC equal to 8 + proficiency bonus + Charisma modifier) or be frightened of you until the end of your next turn.
This effect ends if the creature ends its turn out of line of sight or more than 60 feet away from you. If the creature succeeds on its saving throw, you can’t use this feature on that creature again for 24 hours.
Mindless Rage
Beginning at 6th level, you can’t be charmed or frightened while raging. If you are charmed or frightened when you enter your rage, the effect is suspended for the duration of the rage.
Fearful Presence
Beginning at 10th level, the range for your Intimidating Presence increases to 30 feet and your proficiency bonus is doubled for the purposes of calculating the Wisdom saving throw DC. As an action or whenever you go into a rage, creatures you choose within range that can see or hear you, must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw (DC equal to 8 + 2 x proficiency bonus + Charisma modifier) or be frightened of you. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. As an addition, if you choose to use your Frenzy ability whenever you go into a rage, creatures within range have disadvantage on the Wisdom saving throw. If the creature succeeds on its saving throw, you can’t use this feature on that creature again for 24 hours.
Retaliation
Starting at 14th level, when you take damage from a creature that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against that creature.
Here is the best fix.
Dont take Berserker just take the Dual Wielder feat and use 2 longswords for a bonus action attack of 1d8 and +1 AC without needing armor or a shield. You just dont get to add your STR bonus to the bonus attack. You would just replace taking Great Weapon Master with this as you would not need to reduce a creature to 0 for the bonus attack and you would not need to take a -5 to an attack and can still potentially add +1 to 8 more damage that could also crit.
And if you do not want to give up adding your STR to the bonus attack than you could always go 1 level of fighter and take Two-Weapon Fighting.
Then you can be the barbarian from Diablo 2.
You don't even need to multiclass into fighter to make a two weapon barbarian to, just get the Fighting Initiate feat in Tasha's to get that fighting style and your golden.
Personally this is what I thought would be balanced.
Frenzy: When entering a rage, you can choose to enter a frenzy. while in a frenzy, you are immune to the effects of exhaustion and you can make a single attack as a bonus action until your rage ends. When your frenzied rage ends, you suffer a level of exhaustion.
Idk how you guys feel about it, but i thought it would make the exhaustion drawback more tolerable.
Great video! How about the rogue Inquisitive next? I want to like this class. I'm thinking maybe a changing of skills
1. Tools of the trade - that increases tool proficiencies rates.
2. Ear to the ground - allows you to research and gather information faster. Also you overhear conversations from 15 feet.
3. Eye for detail - allows you to check to spot a hidden creature or object or to make an Intelligence (Investigation) check to uncover or decipher clues and once per turn you study an opponent and following your crit and dodge rise against that opponent any member of your team within 10 feet has in crit and dodge.
4. Gut instinct - allows you to see though illusion and lies.
5. Study magic tools - after you study a magic device for a day you can use it.
6. Steady breathing - you move at half speed, you use the thief fast hand feat and steady eye feat.
Inquisitive rogue is very powerful. I would argue it is op in groups that do more rp than combat.
This is how I see the Frenzy with the Bonus Attack.
As RAW, it is very bad, since it specifies to bonus attack, as a bonus action, instead of like an Extra attack that is added to your attack.
So the way I personally say it works, is that you *gain* a bonus attack, so instead of being able to attack 1 time, you can attack 2 times in total without extra cost.
Exhaustion is the main problem of the whole subclass (Path), as it has heavy negative effects, for barely any positive effects. That along with a limited amount of how many times you can Frenzy, is also very bad design in general.
So this ability becomes more dangerous the higher level your barbarian is, as it puts more and more negative effects on you, till you die.
Myself love to put in a bit of chaos into homebrew classes.
Like I did a Witch, which can cause Exhaustion on the opponent, but you have to roll a dice to see *who* gets effected.
Hex of Age, it has a casting time of 1 action, range is touch, it is Somatic with a material cost of one coal/charcoal and a handfull of ash.
You will touch a target (So you have to put yourself into melee range first), roll a 1d4, if you get 1-2 it is the caster being effected, and 3-4 the target you touch.
You roll a 1d6 for the exhaustion, and the one effected has to make a Con saving throw with a DC of 12 + Spell modifier.
So this spell *can* instantly kill the Target, or the Caster, Note: Does not work on things who are not effected by time (Such as Undead, Demons, Devils, Angels and such).
So not only do you put yourself into danger (Since it is a Spell Caster without any Armour), but it can backfire, and just kill you instead.
But as it is very powerful, I made it this way to make sure it doesn't get abused as a "Win all" button.
And since we can get a 12 + 5 (If Int is 20), for a total of 17 DC it is not the easiest to resist either.
Great video I am going to share this on my Discord.
So what I would do is I would just give the berserker barbarian a bonus action attack while raging then I would give them their sixth level ability at third level. As for their sixth level ability it would be when using your reckless attack feature while raging you can critically hit on a 19 or 20, but reduce your AC by 2 till the start of your next turn. This means while raging you can deal critical hits way more often, but you also have a decreased armor class and enemies have advantage to hit you.
I personally like the idea of adding a 2nd 3rd level ability. This ability would do the following: 1. "When you finish a long rest, you remove all levels of exhaustion that were acquired as a result of your Frenzy class feature. Additionally, you ignore the effects of exhaustion while raging."
But if Beyond three levels of exhaustion cannot be awoken
@@bluelynx4493 you don't get knocked unconscious at any level of exhaustion except 6 which is death, so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make
What I mean is after you hit over three levels of exhaustion and you go to rest you must long rest and you cannot be a woken up.
@@bluelynx4493 is that something you are proposing or a homebrew I am not aware of, because RAW exhaustion does not prevent you from waking up at any level (other than 6(
Just ideas for fixing the frenzy barb
Wanna know how trash the exhaustion penalty is for Frenzy? Baldur's Gate 3 removed it almost entirely for Berserkers. You can bonus action to attack while raging and no exhaustion afterwards.
It's in the class variants for ranger. Tireless (so you could literally get it with a single dip into ranger)
This is what I think path of the berserker should be or rather the theme should be around this. Sorry for the wall of text!
Upon choosing this path you can choose between going into rage or frenzy, exhaustion affect you differently while raging and you gain FRENZIED ATTACK (F.A.)
While raging/frenzy the effect of exhaustion changes to FRENZIED(temp name).
FRENZIED
level 1 (exhaustion level 1-2) - Your mind now only focuses on fighting. You became fixated on the creature that attacked you last. Your first attack of the turn must be made against that creature unless they are completely out of your reach.
level 2 (exhaustion level 3-4) - It become harder for you to differentiate friends or foes. Every turn after you make an attack action, you must succeed a wis saving throw (DC = 10 + normal exhaustion level) or you must move toward the PC closest to you and use F.A. against them.
level 3 (exhaustion level 5-6) - You can no longer differentiate allies or foes. On your turn, you must succeed a wis saving throw (DC = 10 + exhaustion level) or be forced into moving toward the closest PC and either : A- use all of your attack action(including F.A.) against it or B- use your first attack in your attack action against it.
Trying to debate if the punishment for raging while you’re at max exhaustion be as punishing to you AND your party with Option A or not as punishing as option B.
FRENZIED ATTACK - your unbridled rage allowed you to savagely attack again with sheer brute force instead of utilizing what you are holding. Simple, crude but effective.
Rage - While raging, FA can be used as a bonus action
Damage roll (rage):
lvl 3-10 : 1d6 .
lvl 11-16 : 1d8 .
lvl 17-20 : 1d10.
Frenzy - while in frenzy, When you take an attack action(and only your attack action) you must use FA in that same action. You gain 1 level of exhaustion when frenzy end.
Damage roll (frenzy):
lvl 3-10 : 1d6 + str mod.
lvl 11-16 : 1d8 + str mod.
lvl 17-20: 1d10 + str mod.
Body of the berserker - at lvl 6 your body is now more attuned with your rage. You now lose 1 lvl of exhaustion on a short rest (once per long rest) and 1 + con mod (minimum of 1) lvl of exhaustion on a long rest. (You can make it so that you can start out with -1 lvl of exhaustion on a short rest before level 6 and increase it to 2 when you hit level 6)
Unstoppable rage - simplicity is sometime the best course of action, a barbarian will use sheer brute force to break down an obstacle. At lvl 11 if a creature have resistance to your attack, F.A. now deal additional damages against that creature.
lvl 11-14 : +3.
lvl 15-17 : +4.
lvl 18-20. : +5.
I know this sound more like a complete overhaul rather than simple fixes, I’m about to try this out in a game soon. Hope that I can get a feel on what to change after I tested it out!
I actually think that the Barbarian in 5e is fine as is. The Berserker, on the other hand, does need a fix. My fix is straightforward, but first, I will suggest the following rule change to exhaustion. I would keep it as is, but I would have removing one level of exhaustion after a long rest be the default rather than the universal rule. The spell Sickening Radiance already introduces the idea of exhaustion that goes away sooner, so I'm not doing anything radical. Depending on the DM's discretion, exhaustion gained via magic could be removed with Lesser Restoration, but exhaustion gained through more mundane means would require a long rest, and only one level of exhaustion at a time.
For my fix, a level of exhaustion gained as a result of Frenzy would go away after one hour of resting. This could from a short rest or partway through a long rest. You can only get rid of one level of exhaustion this way at a time, but you can still get rid of one per hour that you are resting.
Another fun thing about this change to exhaustion is that DMs could invent new, evil ways to sic this condition on their players.
What if instead of giving exaustion, frenzy burned up the amounts of rages when you use it? Would that be balanced?
I think you could make Frenzy better by leaving as is but adding improved critical as well as adding the Half Orc ability by adding the weapon die of damage on top of it.
I dont have a problem with how the class is built at all in fact it's pretty great, yes it has alot more risk than the Totem Barbarian but tbh that's what makes it actually interesting you have to actually think about what your doing where the Totem you just turn it on and go.
totem is shit compared to berserkers damage output
@@elgatochurro that may be because it doesn’t focus on damage???
Y’all defending this as if exhaustion cant outright kill you! Lol. It’s just not really worth it. And for some long explanation I saw about only a dual wielder this extra attack, a war cleric can do it at level one and not get exhausted. Yes, on a limited basis, and yes, they don’t get multi attack, but there are other ways to get a bonus action attack.
9 months late. But what if they pick a war deity and have a charm or item on their person that represents that deity. It starts at 1 charge at level 3, then every other level (or every 3rd?) you get another charge. These charges remove one level of exhaustion and are recharged on a long rest. They can also be used on other characters. This may also allow DMs to input scenarios where the PC has to make a semi meaningful choice about using their charges on others.
Potentially get 2 at level 3 then 1 every 4 levels? It’s really up to how you want to flavor it I guess. May help with Roleplay too? Maybe its almost like a drug and they become addicted to raging to use the charges? or it’s an aging barbarian who loses the will to fight when he reaches 0 charges because he depends on the charges to meaningfully contribute to the party in his old age? Just ideas 💡
My fix: frenzy whenever during rage, no action cost. Once for free, can spend another rage to activate it again. Intimidating Presence is based on Strength, takes 1 attack. Retaliation attack adds double rage damage.
I find this class an absolute blast to play
“Flaws” cause you to learn how to master the good & bad
"Extraordinary Recovery: You recover from all Levels of exhaustion when you taking a long rest. In addition, you can once per day, when you take a short rest, recover one level of exhaustion." - could work
Okay so I say turn into something like you get berserker point
-you get a point equal to half your barbarian level rounded down+ your con mod (minimum 1)
-when you rage you can spend a berserker point to gain an attack added onto your attack action
- your presence ability can be a bonus action
-you can ignore the effects of exhaustion while you rage
-you can spend 2 berserker points to get rid of a level of exhaustion on a short rest.
-once per short rest when an enemy falls to 0 up gain berserker points equal to challenge rating, cannot exceed your current max
Probably not all too good but that's my idea
1) You can decide to Frenzy with the same action required to Rage. IDK who told you you need a 2nd bonus action to Frenzy but they're not reading RAW if they think that. It would mention the bonus action if it did. It's a free action when you rage.
2) It's intention was to create a spike for the times you really need it. Not to have it on all the time. It does create a fairly substantial offensive spike. Exhaustion was meant to keep you from spamming it and choose things carefully. Ideally once per day, but you could push it to 2x a day if you really needed too.
3) Inability to be charmed is really good. Turning a Barbarian against your party is like DM Strats 101. So Berserker not being able to be turned is nice. If you don't use charm well then it's not great but that's any ability.
4) Intimidating Presence is meh. I'll give people that. Should have been a STR Based check. No Barbarian using Point Buy or Standard Array is going to want to invest in CHA for that ability.
5) Retaliation is GREAT. Shame most campaigns don't get this far. But a reaction attack without even raging? That's dope. That's essentially 4 attacks in a round if you're frenzied, which can all be Reckless (aka double chance to crit).
At level 14. FIghters don't get a 4th attack until Level 20.
Is Berserker Barbarian the best Barbarian? HELL NO. But is it a viable, fun Barbarian?
I personally think so. I don't think it needs buffs.
The real problem is exhaustion is too annoying to get rid of. Wish they included some kind of downtime activity for removing extra levels of exhaustion.
My Berserker fix: (1) (a) I allow the bonus action frenzy attack to occur on the round you rage. (b) The Frenzy ability allows a second attack on your bonus action if you gain a bonus action attack from another feature or feat. In other words, it stacks with Great Weapon Master bonus action attack on a crit or when you drop a foe. (c) When you are raging, you are not affected by exhaustion. (2) I allow the Lesser Restoration spell to remove one level of exhaustion. (3) Intimidating Presence: If you use intimidating presence when you are raging, the frightened ability affects all enemies within 30 feet of you. EDIT: can't remember if I changed the save stat or not. My document isn't in front of me. I thought I might have but unsure.
I think changing the frenzy so that it doesn't take the PC beyond level 3 of exhaustion. Plus once per day, when they are at level 3 of exhaustion, at the end of a short rest they can reduce their level of exhaustion by one level.
Funniest thing about Intimidating Presence
Way of Long Death Monk's literally get a better ability at level 6
Hour of Reaping
At 6th level, you gain the ability to unsettle or terrify those around you as an action, for your soul has been touched by the shadow of death. When you take this action, each creature within 30 feet of you that can see you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or be frightened of you until the end of your next turn.
For me, I'd make the frightful presence be an AOE to all enemies within range but keep it a charisma modifier. The enemy would have to make a check at the end of their turn or remain frightened. They become immune once they save. Something like the banshees frightful visage ability. The downside is obviously the modifier used but I think its offset by having it scare the hell out of everything if you get lucky. Gives good tactical options too for where a barbarian should rage to get the most coverage
Also thinking about the frenzy. Why not give it it's own charge limit. Similar to an action surge but you have to use it while raging. No exhaustion penalty and you regain it on a short rest. Upside it lasts during your rage, still requires the bonus so that's the meh side and down side is if you lose rage prematurely you can't go into a frenzy when you re-rage
If the class could shrug levels of exhaustion with a short rest, it would become amazing and make getting that post fight rest important. I would also give the ability to gain levels of exhaustion at later levels. Maybe gain a level at the end of combat to turn the next hit into a crit.
So I would wrap the mindless rage into the 3rd level ability, and have the ability say while you are raging you are immune to the charmed and frightened condition, and you can make a bonus action attack. Then for the sixth level of rage I would have it be if you attack with reckless attack on your turn until the start of your next turn you can use your reaction to make a melee opportunity attack against a target that deals damage to you or an ally within range.
Frenzy is an option, you are not automatically I it, I just wanted to say that as a foot note, and the current wording in practice should look what he described. As far as improving the intimidation ability, it would make sense to have it set to be dependent on the constitution mod rather than charisma. It would be practical because many barbarians focus on constitution as well. It would also make sense because here comes this walking wall of a man ready to bash your brains out, would it not make sense for him to not only be able to throw a punch but also take a punch. As far as immunity to being charmed or frightened, I could take it or leave it. I think it would make more sense to give on top of resistance to psychic damage. That would add a certain appeal to playing berserker instead of the totem warrior. The level of exhaustion is a problem in some cases, the solution I would propose instead is setting a time cap for when you could frenzy again. A lot of abilities run so that afterwards you need to wait a day to use them again. Better than risking accidentally killing a pc.
Honestly, if you go with the change to making berserker barbarians having another attack when they take the attack action as apart of Frenzy and having Intimidating Presence being a strength save instead of a charisma save, and being on a bonus action, it would serve to making the berserker barbarian as the "attack blender" of the berserker classes
Pole arm mastery and great weapon master makes Frenzy useless.
I think the ranger variant now has options to get rid of 1 lvl of Exhaustion?
Maybe make the first Frenzy of the day free and then each use after that causes exhaustion.
That's a pretty clean and simple way to handle it. I like it
i like the Naruto "Lee" concept of going beyond exhaustion but paying the heavy price afterward.