Now see, THIS, this right here would have explained EVERYTHING. Most of all, it would explain why Thranduil would bring an entire army and declare war for some jewelry. It belonged to his wife. Those few seconds could have settled so many questions.
Idiots didnt even get it in EE -_- like many other scenes like acorn planting scene(why?! why didnt you implement it in EE FFS!), Gandalf's eulogy at Thorin's funeral. Things that would make it better movie, but no -_-
Phillipa Boyens (screenwriter) about this scene: “Tauriel says ‘There’s no love in you’. She’s actually utterly wrong. Thranduil has loved so deeply that he can’t go near it anymore. He can’t approach it, he can’t touch it, it is not to be talked about.” she was talking about his dead wife
Her point, I believe, was that hate had so consumed him that he had forgotten any love for anything else. That the hate overshadowed the love in a way.
So what about his love for legolas? he isn't emotionless and that fight was for the white gems that belonged to his wife but he understood in the end that this fight wasn't a good idea...he lost many soldiers and put his son in danger too.
What’s weirder about the whole concept is that Tolkien’s elves are immortal, even if they “die” they just reincarnate in Valinor. So Thranduil can reunite with his wife and father at anytime, though he’d have to leave middle earth forever. Still since elves live forever what’s a millennium apart anyway
“Are you ready to die for it?” That line hit me like a truck. It’s hinted in interviews that Thranduils wife died for Legolas. It hit me harder at his line to Legolas about his mother loving him more than life.
It actually kind of makes sense that Thranduil got pissed at Tauriel when she said there was no love in him. He lost his wife after all and he still misses her even after centuries have passed.
@@ivanstayner8818 😅 I think I’m missing something. When did he not want to go near his love? Sorry your sentence is a bit confusing. Do you mind explaining. I mean no disrespect.
@@LadyVenVen None taken. Sometimes when we lose someone we were so close too, someone we loved so deeply, its can be painful to think about them. All those sad memories come flooding back, all those shared emotions you once had with that person, gone forever. And sometimes people dont want to forget, but also not want to remember. Thats thranduil
Throughout the theatrical releases, all they had to say to give his lust for the jewels three-dimensionality was "It was his wife's necklace." That was all they had to say! Just one sentence!
What he said was "The heirlooms of my people are not lightly forsaken." Thranduil still had a valid reason to be here. The dwarves had stolen an Elven treasure and he had every right to want those gems back.
This being cut actually is confusing. This is something you’d think Peter would have wanted in the theatrical cut, and he didn’t even bother to put it in EE. Instead we got a clearly bad take of Thorin screaming a little more on the wall and Lee Pace talking about selling the arc stone. So dumb.
I thought it was pretty obvious. Legolas says: "my mother died here (Angmar). My father does not speak of it." - Tauriels remarks about love speak for Thranduil.
Tell me which you value more my friend? A touching scene explaining why Thranduil would go to war for a handful of jewelries, Or the death scene of a useless character you named Alfried?
It isn’t packed with action and CGI, of course Peter Jackson cut it. It is the George Lucas effect...a little success, and these people forget what made them good, and rather than telling a compelling story, they would rather lay the CGI on thick and forget what is meaningful.
Ok but in this particular scene, everything go too fast, Gandalf arrives as the "mentor" very abruptly. And the movie plan is not great either, it does not showcase McKellen acting. Just trying to understand why they don't keep this scene.
+BortFanGirl Actually, when I think about it, I think this part wasn't either included into the copy of extended version I purchased here In Finland... Either it really wasn't there, or I am crazy, but if I'm right then I agree. Why in hell was it left out??????? I gotta watch the movie asap to see whether this bit was included and I only missed it.
Just watch Thranduil’s face at the end. You know exactly what he’s thinking. -the horror of not only being told by his only child to kill him (which is really his deepest fear), but the thought of losing Legolas the same way he lost his wife -and then the anger at Gandolf for even suggesting that he values the necklace more than his own son. Without Legolas, he knows he’ll die of a broken heart.
On top of all that, I think Thranduil is afraid that he’s unintentionally made Legolas believe what Gandalf is implying here. He can’t bear the thought that Legolas might think he’s less important to him than the gems.
Many people view Thranduil as arrogant and selfish... I view him as broken and ridden with grief. Yes, King Thranduil has fought many battles in his lifetime, but the battle that has damaged him the most is the one that exists inside him.
Briseur De Lance Keep in mind, this romance between Tauriel and Kili was not even in the book. The movie sure did a good job in making him look like a jerk. Though regarding this scene, Thranduil was really just trying to protect Tauriel. I mean, he kind of does have a point. They only have really been with each other for a couple days all together... so him saying that her feelings were not real does make sense.
+Patrick N The addition of a superfluous character and the need to justify a weak plotline using that character made it necessary to make adjustments to the story. The character of Thranduil, probably because he was not a big part of the Hobbit, took the hit. Looking at it another way, the initial scene in DOS, where Thranduil speaks to Tauriel about Legolas , he could have also been saying to Tauriel that he sees her interest in Legolas as not the same as Legolas' interest in her - and asking her to not lead him on. The back and forth about Silvan elves is just small talk in a awkward situation for Tauriel. Thranduil's primary concern is for Legolas; he didn't need Gandalf to tell him where his priorities lay (Thranduil shakes his head at the end of this clip as if to say, "You're wrong about me, Gandalf".) I don't view Thranduil as broken in any way - he is a survivor who has learned how to get on with what he needs to do and save the grief for later.
"What do you know of love? Are you willing to die for it?" I absolutely ADORE how fiercely Thranduil loves his wife. Clearly he wishes it was him everyday instead of her.
Thranduil has arguably lived through the War of Wrath, lived to see his father and their host get slaughtered at the Fields of Udun, lived to see Gil-galad and Elendil die at Sauron's hands, lived to see another Great Dragon descend upon the land, and lived being Gorthaur's literal next door neighbour. Is it any wonder he's angry all the damn time?
@@cryptosporidium1375 No, Thranduil isn't interested in the sort. He'll see his wife again in Aman and he has nothing that ties him to Middle-Earth after Legolas leaves.
This scene needed to be kept. It shows that at the end of the day, despite being an elven king, he's just a broken soul who misses his wife deeply. It's also known that elves in lotr can and do die from broken hearts.
Gandalf : Those gems were not all your wife left you,my friend..She left you a son..Tell me which would she have you value more.. Edit: For those who couldn't understand 😐
Peter actually wanted to keep a lot of the scenes that were deleted, they also wanted to use more real makeup on the Orcs', but fucking Warner Bros didn't let them and and wanted it to be another Harry Potter - esque movie
Just a clearance to those who still think that Thranduil is a coward or non-caring king about what happens around , this guy is probably the most elven king/leader who fought the most through middle earth timeline, and is the one who suffered the most from all those wars he went through.
@@slim7406 Thranduil fought in every war going. He fought in the War of the Last Alliance where he lost his father. He fought in the Battle of the Five Armies. He fought in the War of the Ring. In-between these, his homeland was under siege most of time and he defended it against all. It was he that sent Legolas to be part of the Fellowship and during the War of the Ring, he not only defeated all the Orc invaders, he actually took lands from the Orcs and their allies. Ahmad is correct, Thranduil was probably more involved in fighting the evil of Middle Earth than just about anyone and always won.
@@campbelldowler1396 Thranduil and his dad Oropher use to be in Doriath. They were part of the sindar elves that relocate in different places when Doriath was destroyed
@Weeblackie but you have to admit that, whether you like it or not, kili and taurials romance plot ultimately distracted from what should have been the main focus and core of the film which is Bilbo. And this applies for every other added subplot to these bloated films. The book was focused entirely on bilbo, and very rarely strayed from his perspective, I believe that he is the only character, besides maybe thorin, that the films should focus on, such as his personal journey, triumphs and growth from a home loving non adventuring hobbit into a hobbit who is a warrior, cunning, witty, determined and wise.
@Weeblackie I respect your opinion but it is the director's job to maintain the spirit of the book and change what doesn't work and keep what does, as Jackson was adapting a beloved book that has stood the test of time. The director is allowed to change whatever he/she wants with the source material, but there has to be a good reason for changing it, or adding to it. Peter Jackson felt that he needed to add all the side plots because he feared that these movies wouldn't live up to the lord of the rings scale. The problem with that is the main story of the hobbit was never a grand epic story, it was about a group of people going on a treasure hunt, and a particular hobbit named bilbo coming out of his comfort zone and discovering his courage. But Peter jackson, instead of making films about what gandalf was doing when he left the dwarves, or a film about thranduail and his son legolas, decided to keep the main story and add a bunch of distractions that didn't further the plot or add to bilbo's story. So wether you like it or not, all the added material is just wasted time that could have been spent getting to know our main character better. The truth is that nearly all the added subplots were not necessary to the story and only padded out the story to fit a trilogy when it should have been just one film focused on bilbo. It just had no place being there and weakend what could have been a stronger and more focused story. All the added material is objectively not needed to further and develop the story, and it ultimately just hurts the pacing of these movies and creates an unfocused, spread thin story. You can believe that the hobbit book is bloated, but you have to be able to explain why you think that is, the book in my opinion is not bloated because the point of the novel is to tell the story about the main titular character bilbo, and how he comes into his own on a strange adventure. The films are based on the book, and it has the title, "the hobbit" so I think it is objectively fair to state that these movies failed at telling a basic story about who should be the main character.
Normally I'm not one to bitch about what should or shouldn't be in the extended edition, but for fucks sake, if you're going to include this sub plot into the movie thereby asking the audience to invest in exchange for the time spent, then pay it off. Seriously, that was what, like thirty seconds, yet the value it adds is astronomical . It pays off this sub plot and considerably diminishes the awkwardness of the love triangle if only because this scene finally gives it a point to even exist.
+ArtemioM05 You wrote: "this scene finally gives it a point to even exist." I disagree. The Tauriel/Kili love story emphasizes some of Tolkien's most important themes: death and loss. It's an unusual love story because just when the girl decides to give love a chance, the boy dies. They don't even share a kiss in any of the films (it's not "shared", when one of them is dead). And it also foreshadows the friendship between Gimli and Legolas ... can an elf and a dwarf be friends?
+Beautiful Night Disclaimer: I have absolutely nothing against Tauriel and Kili respectively. Here's the thing...In film two I was alright with the love triangle. The feast of starlight scene was tastefully done with them exchanging life stories and growing to see the other as an actual person, not some stereotype they had filed away in their head and I thought that shot of Legolas standing silently, coldly above them did an excellent job of highlighting how much this character has to grow. Mix that in with an icy father/King with mysterious desire for that necklace and I thought they might genuinely have something special on their hands (the filmmakers) However with film three, putting completely aside their dialogue and delivery, everything that was essentially promised with that initial encounter was jettisoned. You had smatterings of it still, like Legolas oddly mentioning his mother, or further implications of Thranduil's inner pain when he comes across his dead people, but on the whole there was no point to this triangle to exist. When I say that, bear in mind, I do not mean to say that it didn't previously hold "some" thematic value. But in plainest terms, if you completely cut out the triangle from the film the actual plot would not be effected in any tangible way. Like Dol Goldur's inclusion to serve as a replacement catalyst of the Great Goblin's death for the mustering of Orcish forces to the Battle of the Five Armies so too the the Love Triangle (in this deleted scene) serve as the catalyst for the Elven King's revelation and catharsis . Meaning, those two sub plots were originally meant to work in tandem not splinter off miserably to disjointed ends. That is what I mean when I say this scene gives it a point.
+Beautiful Night Actually the Tauriel/Kili love story emphasizes Peter Jackson's fear that he wouldn't have enough of a female audience if he didn't create a character and plot that never existed in order to reach out to that demographic. She and the plot exist simply to bring in extra money. It is also why he made Arwen a MUCH bigger character in LOTR (and even replacing other characters) when she was only in the appendices. Yes, we can try to make it deeper all we want but the reality is that it was simply a marketing ploy meant to bring in a bigger audience...because Jackson obviously didn't have enough faith in women to watch a male-dominant film.
+mking624 That's two completely different things! You're talking about why they wanted the Tauriel/Kili story in the first place. ... But I am talking about how they actually USED this love story once it was included in the script and in the films. You see: The reason for the inclusion of it doesn't automatically make it bad. No, we have to look at the final result, and that's where I conclude, that instead of a traditional love story we get a love story in which the boy and the girl don't have a chance and ultimately never share a kiss. They don't even get started - once the girl decides to give love a chance, the boy dies right before his eyes. So we get a tragic story about loss.
Beautiful Night They may be two different things but the reality is that your conclusion is completely made up. It has no basis on anything other than it is your interpretation of a story that never existed in the actual book...and ONLY existed in the film for the purpose of making more money. That is the real final result. Anything "deeper" than that is nothing more than what you yourself made it out to be.
Random fun fact. In the Appendix of The Lord of the Rings. Thranduil plays a major role in the War of the Ring. His army defends Mirkwood from a separate army of Orcs that Sauron sent into their realm. He helps protects the Western front. Dain and Bard's grandson fight protect Erebor and Dale from another army of Orcs Sauron sent to them. They die fighting side by side.
Sauron never sent a army of Orcs to Dale and Erebor. All the Orcs in Dol Guldur was split into two; one marched north into the Woodland Realm while the other half marched west into Lothlorien. The army that assaulted Dale and Erebor were Easterlings, wicked Men from Rhunaer and Balchoth.
@@LandStrider23 Agreed. Have Lee Pace return to reprise his role and keep Peter Jackson as the director. The only way to visually see the War in the North is througb games like War in the North amd Battle for Middle-Earth
I totally dig Thranduil's immense drive to recover those jewels. I mean, yeah sure he has Legolas as a living memory of his wife but Legolas is of his own and his son would always not be around him all the time and eventually go on his way. He would at least have those jewels as a constant reminder of his beloved through the thousands of years after he lost her.
It all makes sense now. I can see why her comment sent him into rage...it was a slap in the face of a man so overcome with grief that he can't even speak his wife's name. He isn't the greedy prick the film would have us believe. I had a feeling there was something more to him...it's a shame they didnt include this in the film.
I want a scene where you see how his wife died so bad. It would have explained his whole character, why he is like he is. He's one of my all time favorite characters, so it's sad that he doesn't get more explained. He and Legolas deserve an own movie, where you see the backstory of them.
In the books it is explained, but has nothing to do with his wife. He experienced horrors in Mordor during the Battle of the Last Alliance, and watched his father cut down in front of him along with the majority of their people, all slaughtered. They then became the faces in the Dead Marshes. Thraduil retreated deep into Mirkwood, building his kingdom under the ground, after that. He never fully recovered from what he experienced and it caused a shadow to lie in his heart evermore. Thousands of years before that, he and his father witnessed their king (Thingol) murdered by dwarves who double crossed him over one of the most beautiful and priceless necklaces that ever existed. Thingol had asked the dwarves to forge the necklace for him, but in payment they demanded the necklace itself. When he refused they cut him down, which lead to a massacre on both sides and their trust was never renewed. That's why Thranduil distrusts the dwarves to such an extent. And what happened in Mordor is why he has separated himself from the world. I'm currently working on a video about him but mostly it will explore outtakes and deleted scenes etc, I'm hoping to incorporate some of his book backstory in there but haven't figured it all out yet :)
@@someonewhospams0w0inchat16 I hid a bunch of my videos as I need to focus on other stuff for now, then I will hopefully get back to my content for this channel when I have my life sorted!! I also have videos I spent a long time making that I didn’t even upload Y_Y but life must come first!! Then I can get back to the fun stuff when I have things under control 🙏🏻
@@someonewhospams0w0inchat16 yeah I have a family I have to feed etc so sadly the fun stuff has to take a backseat for now as food prices are rising!! :)
They should have left this in! I think that not giving the audience this simple explanation of Thranduil's backstory and motivation actually does a huge disservice to the incredible work that Lee Pace did.
Executive meddling always sucks and this forced cutting of this moment and the moment where Thranduil says why he's at Erebor with his army for the second time is no execption. And let's not also forget Thorin's tantrum when he asks Bard and Thranduil, "Why should I buy back that which is rightfully mine?" Also, good riddance to Alfred.
Agreed. I feel like throughout the films, he - like many parents - still sees his little boy when he looks at Legolas, even though Legolas is all grown up. He’s very protective of Legolas because he’s terrified of losing him.
this totally should have been included. I loved Thranduil but i kinda thought he was a jerk doing all this for some gems that i thought were like just some heirlooms or something, this puts so much more meaning into his cause
+EdgewalkerFTW excuse me saving your people is selfish..thorin is the greedy king not thranduil. yeah,he maybe arrogant but he was humbled in the end when he saw lots of elves died in battle..
+Adrijana Radosevic you're also wrong. when gollum was rescued by orcs sauron had already tortured everything out of him, hence why sauron rescued him in the first place. He knew about gollum and let him escape mordor and wanted him to find the ring and bring it to him. After gollum's escape he pursues frodo and if he hadn't escaped frodo would never have made it to mordor and even if he did he would put on the ring and take himself to sauron, so the elves kindness was what saved everyone.
Adrijana Radosevic let the lotr lore battles begin... "It was that very night of summer, yet moonless and starless, that Orcs came on us at unawares. We drove them off after some time; they were many and fierce, but they came from over the mountains, and were unused to the woods. When the battle was over, we found that Gollum was gone, and his guards were slain or taken. It then seemed plain to us that the attack had been made for his rescue, and that he knew of it beforehand. How that was contrived we cannot guess; but Gollum is cunning, and the spies of the Enemy are many." -Legolas from The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring I think we may assume that Sauron decided it would be dangerous to leave one who knew so much about the ring in enemy hands, so he sent an orc party to rescue him. Aragon had found gollum, near the dead marshes, before frodo left the shire, and his escape was first heard of at elrond's council.Yet Gollum had been caught before by gandalf who spoke to him and then set him free in what he called his biggest mistake, because after that gollum made his way to mordor and aragon found him on his way back.
I love the look on Thranduil's face when Gandalf lays it on him, you can see anger, regret, despair and realization all at the same time. Brilliant acting by Lee Pace in this scene.
so this 30 seconds important scenes explaining why Thranduil was willing to lead his entire army to war for a handful of jewels was cut out from the extended version, but the death of Alfried, the coward also the character of whom no one really cares was not deleted at all, what's the logic of that?
@@Athraxas First movie is bloated and overlong. Dwarf characters are dull as hell and they are never established properly outside of Balin and James Nesbitt. Thorin is very disappointing too.
probably because tauriel never existed in the source material and was created to be a generic romantic b plot in the story because jackson was scared it wouldn't live up to the previous trilogy. A self fulfilling prophecy. But yeah Lee Pace makes a great elf king.
I was thrilled to see Thranduil's face while disappointed to see Legolas sided Tauriel than himself. I see that as a father, Thranduil actually very fond of his son. Only the father isn't accustomed to show his love for his son. This is very different to a mother who would show her love for her children
I have always hated the "there is no love in you"-part... he chooses to retreat for the love of his people. He wanted to seal the gates to protect the people he loves. He has shown over and over again he loves his son. The hunt for the gems (without the connection to his wife) shows his love for material, and with the connection there is even more love in him. Thalia on the other hand falls in love with an individual she has seen for about 5-10 minutes.
@@thegirlwhoreadstoomuch9339 too much was made of her but I did not hate her. She wasn't horribly annoying like a lot of "fluff" characters are. Think of all the modern day junk characters where they are female and invincible and can beat up 27 men with their pinky without any combat training… etc.
God, does Gandalf really have a doubt about what Thranduil values the most? It is obvious that this father loves his son more than anything else in the world. You can read that in his eyes anytime (it's even more blatant in their last scene together). Just because he seems cold and doesn't show his feelings doesn't mean he doesn't care for Legolas. Losing your loved one is terrible and raising your child by yourself is such a difficult thing to do. I know what I'm talking about as my son was only 3 when my husband died. You don't have time to mourn. There are moments you would just curl into a ball and cry your eyes out, but you just can't, because your child doesn't want to see you sad. He needs you to be strong, so that he knows he can rely on you because you are everything to him. So you can never be weak (at least, that's what you convince yourself) and you end up repressing your sadness and building yourself a shell. Some people find the right balance between the "Strong figure" and the "loving" one, others don't and have yet to learn they can soften a little now and then. That's Something I still find hard to indulge in so I never tell my son how much I love him and I may appear quite cold with him. Yet he's my whole world and I'd gladly die for him. I'm sure Thranduil feels the same about Legolas.
Gandalf knows Thranduil is a good person. Good persons often go astray however and lose objectivity. Gandalf was just forcefully reminding him - I doubt anyone else would ever question the King so it was required.
No, his wife died to protect Legolas. I think Thranduil sees Legolas as the product of a bad trade-off, and the necklace as the representation of his wife. When instead he should see Legolas as the representation of his wife.
I feel that Thranduil is far more complex than what is explained throughout the trilogy. His encounters with king Thorin at the palace and the brief moments he has with Legolas, either Lee did a great job portraying the character or Thranduil is a terribly damaged elf that has built a wall around his heart.
N.T Ploeg Why do you think that Thranduil‘s elves are bad warriors? In the book, it says that they‘re „more dangerous and less wise“. The elves of Rivendell may have been the more intelligent house and they were incredibly skilled fighters as well, but that doesn‘t make the elves of the Woodland Realm any less threatening. I always hated how weak the elves were portrayed in the movies. They were dangerous as hell - especially because they don‘t always think before they act ;-)
There are many Elven houses. Thranduil was one of Sindar, one of the Iatrim. He ruled the Nandor. Sindar were famous for being high-egoed, like Elu Thingol, but they never were potrayed as assholes, Ñoldor were, those under Fëanors rule especially.
I mean how hard is it to just add like an extra 15 seconds and 1 extra line that explains so much. I also really liked all of Thranduil's facial expressions in this.
Thranduil mustve loved his wife to start war over her gems. Elves mate for eternal life. his wife's death turned him to a loveless king who can't show affection, not even to his son. He doesn't see tauriels love as being real bc thranduil and his wife was probably in love for centuries before she died,her death impacted him so badly that he became a cold, almost heartless being. Tauriels 2 day love with kili really does seem ludicrous compared to thranduils very sad "single father" story ...also I read smewhere from a Tolkien article about eleves, that elves can die from heartbreak. I think that's metaphorical, like a huge part of thranduil died, it seems, when he lost his wife . He seemed like a shell of his former self, esp when he showed affection at the end , that was a hint to the affectionate person he once was
This scene right here not only explains everything but makes me feel for and relate to Thranduil, and honestly puts him at a high spot on my list for favorite hobbit/lotr movie characters.
The look on Thranduil’s face when Gandalf says “Which do you think she would have you value more?” A look of pure pain when he realizes he was driving his son away... poor man
So Peter Jackson was just like, 'This scene adds more depth to the character, explains a lot, and is only a few seconds longer than what we're going to put in anyway; shall we put it in the movie? Nah.'
I don't think it was his fault, It's Warner Brothers who had the last say in this - it was them who chose which scene stay in and which's gonna get deleted. They were also the ones who wanted that love triangle, PJ never wanted Legolas to be added into it. In fact PJ was furious when he found out what the studio hadn't included in the Extended Edition.
This is such a short yet meaningfull scene between Gandalf and Thranduil that I think it should have been in the theatrical version... This definately brings some insight to Thranduil's character, motives and his actions later on...
It's never explained why Legolas and Thranduil relationship is so strained. We know it has something to do with his mother but Legolas as an elf would understand his fathers grief. He should be comforting his father not fighting against him. That's what the Legolas we all once knew would have done. He seems so different in this film...
True. But on the other hand, you've got to remember that this stoy takes place many years before Lotr. So maybe it's more believeable to imagine that Legolas matured as well, in those years until the Fellowship and thus changed to the elf we met then.
"My mother died there. My father doesn't speak of it. There is no grave. No memory. Nothing." So Thranduil basically doesn't talk to Legolas about his mother and keep the memories to himself. That's why they don't get along. Legolas's facial expressions when he talks about his mother are rather both sad and nostalgic like he remembers the time when things weren't like that. They had one interaction in Desolation of Smaug and they seemed rather formal with each other. Thranduil treated Legolas like another subject. I think one more interaction between them would have been nice. "It is a fell place, Tauriel. In another age, our people waged war on those lands." So Tauriel doesn't know about the history of Woodland realm in Angmar which shows nobody discusses the queen's death.
One of the things I love most about LOTR, it doesn't really matter what clip you watch on youtube, when you get to the comments section you see the type of people that are drawn to this literature. Civil, polite and friendly communications, even when someone virulently disagrees on a topic, it's still civil and respectful of others. Thankyou JRR, thankyou for making us better people.
Tauriel does not need to be in this movie, not only does it try to do the Aragorn and Arwen Story, but they try to make it work which it doesn't. Having Legolas would have made sense since he's in Lord of The Rings but not every movie needs a love story, it's over used to much to "fill in" a movie that's over 2 hours long
Why do film makers always cut out the best scenes from the movies? This scene proves that Thranduil isn't a greedy maniac. He simply wanted that necklace because it belonged to his beloved wife.
This has to be one of my favorite scenes in the entire trilogy, even if it’s technically not in the movie! It makes Thranduils character motivations make sense entirely and adds that poetic touch that makes Tolkien so special
I do understand it. The reason why people (including me) hate on these movies is because the movies in The Hobbit trilogy in no way resemble the book they were "based" off of. That being said, the movies are masterpieces. The Thranduil character from the movies was a very good character, and they did a great job with him. I'm just disappointed that they did such a bad job adapting the book into the movies.
@@thegirlwhoreadstoomuch9339 There's tons from the book in the movies, and they are simply stretching things out for the sake of making a movie. True there's some divergence, but there's a lot in there that is very respectful of Tolkien. The dragon for example was beautifully done, showing cunning and malice in a way that you hardly ever see in any dragon. The death scene for Thorin where he talks with Bilbo is just brilliant.
@@stevenwilson5556 Agreed! I've seen SO much hate on these movies, but honestly, they're some of my favorite movies of all time (top 2 at least). I've read countless things about how and why people hate them, but I've never been able to watch them and fully understand why. I think people are way too critical sometimes.
@@GoldenDragonGamer they are not perfect, and I can see why some people have problems with them. For example the 3rd with the Legolas doing the air walking across the falling tower is just lame. But there's a lot of fun and great stuff in them. I like Thranduil for example.
@@stevenwilson5556 Yeah. They're definitely not perfect, but they're not meant to be. They're just meant to be a fun adventure, and not to be taken as seriously as people do. (The air walking is definitely a bit far fetched but I don't mind, it was kind of cool 🤣)
His arrogance is a shield I can identify with it and that's why I like him so much, seing him sad and broken on the other hand hurts me too, understandable of course
Not a lot of people know this but Thranduil suffered another great loss in the form of his father Oropher who died in the battle of the Last Alliance. I think for Elves death hits them harder due to their immortality. Never being able to reunite with their deceased loved ones in death.
Thranduil and oropher l you beuayuil só me miss famliy um thogether lá him rings fimles melher pó de love atrás anos triste de sente sorry tambe you love YES ❤️🙂☺️💝
It was here that Thranduil realized he had gone too far. He was willing to throw lives away over some gems and even kill one of his own if they get in the way. In that regard it made him no better than the dwarves he deemed greedy and beneath him. Yes, the gems apparently belonged to his wife, but Gandalf was absolutely right here. Would your wife want you to value some gems over the very life of your son?
@@jediweaponmasterliam9 The last time an elf killed another elf over gems was many thousands of years prior to this. It was a very dark chapter in elvish history. All of those who committed such acts are no longer alive, and are being punished in the halls of the dead for it. Still, he was on that line and ready to walk over it for the first time in millennia.
@@jediweaponmasterliam9 oh yeah. It happened twice in two major events. Galadriel's half brother and his sons were the primary offenders. The gods took it pretty seriously and were not happy about it. As a matter of fact, Elrond's mother was one of their targets in the second instance as she had one of the gems they wanted. The half brother and all his sons have been dead for thousands of years, and no elf has killed another since.
At 0:12 right before Thranduil swipes the sword his face looks all calm and collected. Then as he swipes, Tauriel's face momentarily covers the camera and when you can see Thranduil's face again, he is PISSED. Cool bit of cinemography that is hard to notice at first.
Imagine losing the love of your life and enduring it through immortality. If you've read Silmarillion, Eru actually gifted mortality to men (which they took as a weakness), because immortality is tragedy in so many ways.
And they did not just cut a scene who would have saved the NOBLEST king from the bad opinion of thousand of half-fans which did not read the book or saw this, no! They even cut a great performance from a great actor, Lee pace, who seemed so real in this that I can't distingue him from the Elv-king anymore. Which I find OFFENSIVE for his hardwork to realize this scene. Plus, we lost another pearl of wisdom from Gandalf, who as always demonstrates to be the wisest man ever existed (I'm sorry dumbledore, he defeats even you). No words, really. You damned film-direction...
Gandalf is a Maiar (one of the beings that, along with Eru ("The One Who is Alone"), sang the world into existence in the time before time). He's essentially a minor god in a person suit, and literally older than the world. So, he's one of the few beings who can talk to Thranduil as if he was a grandfather dispensing wisdom. Legolas is 2951 years old in this scene, and his father Thranduil is *much* older, but Gandalf is literally older than time.
See, some of the hobbit makes absolutely no sense and should've been cut, but this is absolute gold. I actually enjoyed that they talked about Legolas' mother, even if there's very little of it. It gives Thranduil a complex backstory and an actual reason for him to want the white jewels and stuff.
Why wasn't this part in the original version? It would have filled the gap between why was Thranduil about to kill Tauriel in one moment and come after her afterwards.
Thranduil, as Tolkien wrote him, was not the heartless tyrant that is depicted in the Hobbit films. They didn't need to come up w/ another "bad guy" in order to make the storyline more interesting. These little bits can't fix the contrived feel of this arc. The only logical reason for Thranduil to take his army to Erebor (he does not know if the dwarves survived meeting Smaug) is to keep orcs and/or goblins from making it into a convenient base for attacks on the surrounding areas esp. his kingdom. The whole jewelry motive doesn't make sense in light of his own history in Thingol Greycloak's kingdom of Doriath. How could he expect his people to fight and die for one piece of jewelry which is only of significance to him?
+elleevne Well most of this is Peter Jackson's fault, of course. But in terms of the books, remember that The Hobbit was published in 1938, and at that time much of the Silmarillion "history" wasn't yet in anything close to final form. When you read the Hobbit, Thranduil does seem a lot like the Silm's Thingol. It's quite clear that JRRT was thinking of Thingol when he wrote Hobbit-Thranduil. I guess he simply hadn't yet worked out these issues when the Hobbit was published.
+Robert Hoy Thingol Greycloak was not a heartless tyrant in the Silmarillion either. He definitely made a big mistake, but he was not depicted as Thranduil is in the Hobbit films. There are enough passages in the Hobbit to give a pretty good impression of Thranduil as basically a sensible, responsible king (who enjoyed feasting w/ his people) and who kept the worth of gold and jewels in their proper perspective.
+elleevne I didn't say he was! And I agree with you, totally, about Jackson destroying Thranduil's character. I was referring to your "doesn't make sense in light of his own history..." comment, was just pointing out that Book-Thranduil would probably have been different if he'd been written -after- LOTR and the Silm were fully developed.
elleevne Notes? The line in the book is clear enough: “If the elf-king had a weakness it was for treasure, especially for silver and white gems.” I'm not sure what we're arguing about here though. I like Thranduil too! But everyone has their weaknesses, and we both know Elves don't always learn from past mistakes :).
+Robert Hoy The operative word here is "IF";. Tolkien seems to have left the idea open to speculation. However, the other parts of the Hobbit which talk about Thranduil's activities and motivations do not support the idea that he would consider silver and white gems as grounds to risk the lives of his people. In the book, it is Thranduil who tempers Bard's eagerness for battle : "Long will I tarry, ere I begin this war for gold". The elves already had greater defense issues to use their resources on.
Damn this scene here really touches my heart. Just by the dialogue and expressions, you can tell that both Legolas and Thranduil care about each other. I love that for these movies, they dropped the toxic father-son relationship and actually gave theses two characters a good one. Legolas saying “you’ll have to kill me” instead of “I’ll kill you”, and Thranduil withdrawing right away say a lot. He didn’t even dare to go against his son. He also seems heartbroken by the single thought of it 🥹.
Man...Thranduil’s face when Legolas shows up I feel like is probably just saying to himself “what have I become?”- And again even more so when Gandalf speak to him.
I don’t understand how they didn’t put this in the movie it would’ve given so much character backstory to Thranduil that we didn’t understand in the original cut
I felt Thrabduil's character so much. For many different reasons. Sometimes I worry I'll end up like a bad father like mine was, and that one day I might lose sight of the fact that at the end of the day, the only thing that is important to me is that kid. Great King, sometimes misguided.
Why do they ALWAYS cut out important and meaningful scenes. These few seconds wouldve explained soo much and paint Thraunduil in a totally different picture than many of us viewed him as. So many films couldve been a lot better than they were by keeping their deleted scenes.
I honestly do not like Tauriel. She's easily stirred up, too often follows her feelings before thinking, disrespects orders, she'd put her king's and her peoples' lives at stake for a Dwarf (which is nowhere near how Tolkien depicted the two races together), and she offends her king by literally threatening him with a deadly arrow. That in itself bears the penalty of banishment (as Elves I doubt would have the death penalty on their kin). Thranduil is harsh, but he wants the best for all his people, not just a single Silvan Elf. Especially since his father and later his own wife got brutally murdered by Orcs; an inner feeling that he has let down those He loved the most. Let's just say that's not all, and that his life in Middle Earth has left more than one mark on him. I like to believe that because of this, he's come to a conclusion that the best he can do is look after his own people - which some races, like the Dwarves of Erebor, did not appreciate and did not give back the jewels of starlight which belonged to his wife! ANYONE would be grieved by this and would find no reason to be any kinder to any other but your own kind. And then Tauriel starts doing this? A lowly Silvan elf indeed.
@@campbelldowler1396 It's in one of the other books (The Silmarillion, HoME, UT,etc). Finwë was the only elf to have remarried and that union is considered an exception among elves. Not to mention they had the Valar's direct blessing. Thranduil hasn't even met the Valar.
Now see, THIS, this right here would have explained EVERYTHING. Most of all, it would explain why Thranduil would bring an entire army and declare war for some jewelry. It belonged to his wife. Those few seconds could have settled so many questions.
yup..you're right!
Omg agreed!
+KzxptrGtx they cut this scene because they want the king to look like a jerk
+Adam Pierson i totally agree!!!
And that's why its in the extended edition. So we can buy it and be like "OOOOH SO THAT'S FUCKING WHY!"
Now THAT should have been in the film
Idiots didnt even get it in EE -_- like many other scenes like acorn planting scene(why?! why didnt you implement it in EE FFS!), Gandalf's eulogy at Thorin's funeral. Things that would make it better movie, but no -_-
@@Kacpa2 Capitalism, that scenes wouldn't sell to mainstream audience.
Right? Wtf
@@falcone7908 that shouldn't have mattered :'/
Hell yeah o.O
Phillipa Boyens (screenwriter) about this scene:
“Tauriel says ‘There’s no love in you’. She’s actually utterly wrong. Thranduil has loved so deeply that he can’t go near it anymore. He can’t approach it, he can’t touch it, it is not to be talked about.” she was talking about his dead wife
Her point, I believe, was that hate had so consumed him that he had forgotten any love for anything else. That the hate overshadowed the love in a way.
This is true
So what about his love for legolas? he isn't emotionless and that fight was for the white gems that belonged to his wife but he understood in the end that this fight wasn't a good idea...he lost many soldiers and put his son in danger too.
Yup, he couldn’t even look towards Mordor because of the grief he felt for his Father Oropher who fell there
What’s weirder about the whole concept is that Tolkien’s elves are immortal, even if they “die” they just reincarnate in Valinor. So Thranduil can reunite with his wife and father at anytime, though he’d have to leave middle earth forever. Still since elves live forever what’s a millennium apart anyway
“Are you ready to die for it?” That line hit me like a truck. It’s hinted in interviews that Thranduils wife died for Legolas. It hit me harder at his line to Legolas about his mother loving him more than life.
Which interview? Can you provide a link?
Yeah please give us link
The Legolas proceed to say she'd die for Tauriel oh my poor heart 😭
Finally it all makes sense, without this it is all disjointed. Like a broken mirror.
@@professor1123 i was about to say this. Poor leggy 💔
so now i know why those gems are important
it was made for his wife but the dwarves refused to give it back to thranduil because of the dispute about a rightful pay..
If I'm right, the pay was to admit the dwarf a greater king then himself.
#fuckingdwarves
They were made for his wife,but she never got to wear them because she died before the dwarves could give them to her.
Legolas=no mother
Arthur=no mother
It actually kind of makes sense that Thranduil got pissed at Tauriel when she said there was no love in him. He lost his wife after all and he still misses her even after centuries have passed.
His love was so deep for her that he didn't want to go near it for the fact he might lose her again. That is true love if iv ever seen it.
@@ivanstayner8818 near what? what “it” are you referring to?
@@LadyVenVen it. As in love.
@@ivanstayner8818 😅 I think I’m missing something.
When did he not want to go near his love? Sorry your sentence is a bit confusing. Do you mind explaining.
I mean no disrespect.
@@LadyVenVen None taken. Sometimes when we lose someone we were so close too, someone we loved so deeply, its can be painful to think about them. All those sad memories come flooding back, all those shared emotions you once had with that person, gone forever. And sometimes people dont want to forget, but also not want to remember. Thats thranduil
Throughout the theatrical releases, all they had to say to give his lust for the jewels three-dimensionality was "It was his wife's necklace." That was all they had to say! Just one sentence!
I guess they thought his character would be too shy to say it out loud.
To say out loud that he was trying to get his hands on his wife's jewelry.
What he said was "The heirlooms of my people are not lightly forsaken."
Thranduil still had a valid reason to be here. The dwarves had stolen an Elven treasure and he had every right to want those gems back.
Still, 7 seconds would have made all the difference and brought everything full-circle for the audience.
This being cut actually is confusing. This is something you’d think Peter would have wanted in the theatrical cut, and he didn’t even bother to put it in EE. Instead we got a clearly bad take of Thorin screaming a little more on the wall and Lee Pace talking about selling the arc stone. So dumb.
I thought it was pretty obvious. Legolas says: "my mother died here (Angmar). My father does not speak of it." - Tauriels remarks about love speak for Thranduil.
Tell me which you value more my friend? A touching scene explaining why Thranduil would go to war for a handful of jewelries, Or the death scene of a useless character you named Alfried?
hahaha very well said..
It isn’t packed with action and CGI, of course Peter Jackson cut it. It is the George Lucas effect...a little success, and these people forget what made them good, and rather than telling a compelling story, they would rather lay the CGI on thick and forget what is meaningful.
Ok but in this particular scene, everything go too fast, Gandalf arrives as the "mentor" very abruptly. And the movie plan is not great either, it does not showcase McKellen acting.
Just trying to understand why they don't keep this scene.
Fried what?
Both. The deathscene was one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen. Love it.
WHY?! WHY?! Why wasn't this in the extended version?
+BortFanGirl The real question is, "Why was this not in the THEATRICAL cut?"
Which was where?
***** italy
Strange... any other scenes that weren't in the English extended version? and do you mean on dvd?
+BortFanGirl Actually, when I think about it, I think this part wasn't either included into the copy of extended version I purchased here In Finland... Either it really wasn't there, or I am crazy, but if I'm right then I agree. Why in hell was it left out??????? I gotta watch the movie asap to see whether this bit was included and I only missed it.
I love Thranduil's face after Legolas intervened. Lee Pace is a great actor!
Just watch Thranduil’s face at the end. You know exactly what he’s thinking.
-the horror of not only being told by his only child to kill him (which is really his deepest fear), but the thought of losing Legolas the same way he lost his wife
-and then the anger at Gandolf for even suggesting that he values the necklace more than his own son. Without Legolas, he knows he’ll die of a broken heart.
Maybe Legolas is what kept him alive in the first place.
"Gandolf".... What.
On top of all that, I think Thranduil is afraid that he’s unintentionally made Legolas believe what Gandalf is implying here. He can’t bear the thought that Legolas might think he’s less important to him than the gems.
Many people view Thranduil as arrogant and selfish... I view him as broken and ridden with grief.
Yes, King Thranduil has fought many battles in his lifetime, but the battle that has damaged him the most is the one that exists inside him.
i agree with you...
Briseur De Lance Keep in mind, this romance between Tauriel and Kili was not even in the book. The movie sure did a good job in making him look like a jerk.
Though regarding this scene, Thranduil was really just trying to protect Tauriel. I mean, he kind of does have a point. They only have really been with each other for a couple days all together... so him saying that her feelings were not real does make sense.
Patrick N
Sure, she couldn't say for sure her feelings were real.
But neither could Thranduil say the opposite for sure.
Briseur De Lance yeah, I agree.
+Patrick N The addition of a superfluous character and the need to justify a weak plotline using that character made it necessary to make adjustments to the story. The character of Thranduil, probably because he was not a big part of the Hobbit, took the hit. Looking at it another way, the initial scene in DOS, where Thranduil speaks to Tauriel about Legolas , he could have also been saying to Tauriel that he sees her interest in Legolas as not the same as Legolas' interest in her - and asking her to not lead him on. The back and forth about Silvan elves is just small talk in a awkward situation for Tauriel. Thranduil's primary concern is for Legolas; he didn't need Gandalf to tell him where his priorities lay (Thranduil shakes his head at the end of this clip as if to say, "You're wrong about me, Gandalf".)
I don't view Thranduil as broken in any way - he is a survivor who has learned how to get on with what he needs to do and save the grief for later.
"What do you know of love? Are you willing to die for it?"
I absolutely ADORE how fiercely Thranduil loves his wife. Clearly he wishes it was him everyday instead of her.
And the only reason why he doesn't commit suicide to go join her is because Legolas needs him.
You shall adore GOD only
@@macabeo….dude
@@macabeo Sit and spin.
The weird moment when you realise that Orlando Bloom is older than Lee Pace
That one scene:
Orlando: Hello, Dad.
Lee: Hello, son.
Me: ....
They are elves....
@@johnyguitar1469 yeah and? In real life Orlando who plays Legolas is older than Lee Pace who plays Thranduil...
2 years don't even make a real difference
@@fabiana7157 but in real life u can't be older than ur parents 🤔🤔🤔
Thranduil has arguably lived through the War of Wrath, lived to see his father and their host get slaughtered at the Fields of Udun, lived to see Gil-galad and Elendil die at Sauron's hands, lived to see another Great Dragon descend upon the land, and lived being Gorthaur's literal next door neighbour.
Is it any wonder he's angry all the damn time?
He wishes to have the gift of men
@@cryptosporidium1375 No, Thranduil isn't interested in the sort. He'll see his wife again in Aman and he has nothing that ties him to Middle-Earth after Legolas leaves.
This scene needed to be kept. It shows that at the end of the day, despite being an elven king, he's just a broken soul who misses his wife deeply. It's also known that elves in lotr can and do die from broken hearts.
Gandalf : Those gems were not all your wife left you,my friend..She left you a son..Tell me which would she have you value more..
Edit: For those who couldn't understand 😐
Thank god you posted this, I love old Gandalf, but damn he mumbles.
@@gehtdichnichtsan2418 lmao hehe
Ty Sir!
@@Nobbi_Habogs wc Good person, it's been 3 years and this comment is just now getting steam
Thanks boss, English is not my first language and you helped me with this one
Out of all the extended scenes, this one should be in the theatrics version. SERIOUSLY
So True
Peter actually wanted to keep a lot of the scenes that were deleted, they also wanted to use more real makeup on the Orcs', but fucking Warner Bros didn't let them and and wanted it to be another Harry Potter - esque movie
It wasn’t even in the Extended version.
@@HumblePaysan that baffles me on so many levels.
Peter Jackson I want film about Thranduil! Do it! Do it! He was the best part of this film.
Me too.. I just dream about another movie for Thranduil
But J.R.R tolkien didn't wrote about him so much
But i just dream too:)
Slávka Fulierová another movie just on him would be amazing!!!!
PJ can make who the hell we don't know like Tauriel I know he can do about him more even not care the *BOOK*
no. he had ruined Tolkien's work enough already
Just a clearance to those who still think that Thranduil is a coward or non-caring king about what happens around , this guy is probably the most elven king/leader who fought the most through middle earth timeline, and is the one who suffered the most from all those wars he went through.
He only went through one war and a huge five army battle.
@@slim7406 Thranduil fought in every war going. He fought in the War of the Last Alliance where he lost his father. He fought in the Battle of the Five Armies. He fought in the War of the Ring. In-between these, his homeland was under siege most of time and he defended it against all. It was he that sent Legolas to be part of the Fellowship and during the War of the Ring, he not only defeated all the Orc invaders, he actually took lands from the Orcs and their allies. Ahmad is correct, Thranduil was probably more involved in fighting the evil of Middle Earth than just about anyone and always won.
@@lucydarko188 I love how you day he fought in every war going, but he wasn't even ALIVE during the War of Wrath.
@@campbelldowler1396 Thranduil and his dad Oropher use to be in Doriath. They were part of the sindar elves that relocate in different places when Doriath was destroyed
@@darkmid9t671 doriath?
The only way to correct the mess they did for letting out ALL Thranduil `s scenes is to have a Trilogy about HIM! We deserve it!!!
you are absolutely correct!!
No there is literally zero lore on his character in the middle earth books
@@calebfleming123 so what lol they can invent it based on what we do know shows and films rarely follow the books they are based on anyway
@@nothingbutintroverted4372 movies made without source material generally aren’t very good
"WHY DOES IT HURT SO MUCH?!"
"Because it wasn't in the books, my dear."
Hahahahahahahahaha
@Weeblackie False and the movies would have been better if they were closer to the book.
"Because it wasn't real" their romance was so forced and fake, and cringe, and bad, and unnecessary, and distracting...
@Weeblackie but you have to admit that, whether you like it or not, kili and taurials romance plot ultimately distracted from what should have been the main focus and core of the film which is Bilbo. And this applies for every other added subplot to these bloated films. The book was focused entirely on bilbo, and very rarely strayed from his perspective, I believe that he is the only character, besides maybe thorin, that the films should focus on, such as his personal journey, triumphs and growth from a home loving non adventuring hobbit into a hobbit who is a warrior, cunning, witty, determined and wise.
@Weeblackie I respect your opinion but it is the director's job to maintain the spirit of the book and change what doesn't work and keep what does, as Jackson was adapting a beloved book that has stood the test of time. The director is allowed to change whatever he/she wants with the source material, but there has to be a good reason for changing it, or adding to it. Peter Jackson felt that he needed to add all the side plots because he feared that these movies wouldn't live up to the lord of the rings scale. The problem with that is the main story of the hobbit was never a grand epic story, it was about a group of people going on a treasure hunt, and a particular hobbit named bilbo coming out of his comfort zone and discovering his courage. But Peter jackson, instead of making films about what gandalf was doing when he left the dwarves, or a film about thranduail and his son legolas, decided to keep the main story and add a bunch of distractions that didn't further the plot or add to bilbo's story. So wether you like it or not, all the added material is just wasted time that could have been spent getting to know our main character better. The truth is that nearly all the added subplots were not necessary to the story and only padded out the story to fit a trilogy when it should have been just one film focused on bilbo. It just had no place being there and weakend what could have been a stronger and more focused story. All the added material is objectively not needed to further and develop the story, and it ultimately just hurts the pacing of these movies and creates an unfocused, spread thin story. You can believe that the hobbit book is bloated, but you have to be able to explain why you think that is, the book in my opinion is not bloated because the point of the novel is to tell the story about the main titular character bilbo, and how he comes into his own on a strange adventure. The films are based on the book, and it has the title, "the hobbit" so I think it is objectively fair to state that these movies failed at telling a basic story about who should be the main character.
Lee pace’s facial expressions after cutting the bow and being interrupted by Legolas are pure brilliance
Normally I'm not one to bitch about what should or shouldn't be in the extended edition, but for fucks sake, if you're going to include this sub plot into the movie thereby asking the audience to invest in exchange for the time spent, then pay it off. Seriously, that was what, like thirty seconds, yet the value it adds is astronomical . It pays off this sub plot and considerably diminishes the awkwardness of the love triangle if only because this scene finally gives it a point to even exist.
+ArtemioM05 You wrote: "this scene finally gives it a point to even exist."
I disagree. The Tauriel/Kili love story emphasizes some of Tolkien's most important themes: death and loss. It's an unusual love story because just when the girl decides to give love a chance, the boy dies. They don't even share a kiss in any of the films (it's not "shared", when one of them is dead). And it also foreshadows the friendship between Gimli and Legolas ... can an elf and a dwarf be friends?
+Beautiful Night Disclaimer: I have absolutely nothing against Tauriel and Kili respectively.
Here's the thing...In film two I was alright with the love triangle. The feast of starlight scene was tastefully done with them exchanging life stories and growing to see the other as an actual person, not some stereotype they had filed away in their head and I thought that shot of Legolas standing silently, coldly above them did an excellent job of highlighting how much this character has to grow. Mix that in with an icy father/King with mysterious desire for that necklace and I thought they might genuinely have something special on their hands (the filmmakers)
However with film three, putting completely aside their dialogue and delivery, everything that was essentially promised with that initial encounter was jettisoned. You had smatterings of it still, like Legolas oddly mentioning his mother, or further implications of Thranduil's inner pain when he comes across his dead people, but on the whole there was no point to this triangle to exist.
When I say that, bear in mind, I do not mean to say that it didn't previously hold "some" thematic value. But in plainest terms, if you completely cut out the triangle from the film the actual plot would not be effected in any tangible way. Like Dol Goldur's inclusion to serve as a replacement catalyst of the Great Goblin's death for the mustering of Orcish forces to the Battle of the Five Armies so too the the Love Triangle (in this deleted scene) serve as the catalyst for the Elven King's revelation and catharsis . Meaning, those two sub plots were originally meant to work in tandem not splinter off miserably to disjointed ends. That is what I mean when I say this scene gives it a point.
+Beautiful Night Actually the Tauriel/Kili love story emphasizes Peter Jackson's fear that he wouldn't have enough of a female audience if he didn't create a character and plot that never existed in order to reach out to that demographic. She and the plot exist simply to bring in extra money. It is also why he made Arwen a MUCH bigger character in LOTR (and even replacing other characters) when she was only in the appendices. Yes, we can try to make it deeper all we want but the reality is that it was simply a marketing ploy meant to bring in a bigger audience...because Jackson obviously didn't have enough faith in women to watch a male-dominant film.
+mking624 That's two completely different things! You're talking about why they wanted the Tauriel/Kili story in the first place. ... But I am talking about how they actually USED this love story once it was included in the script and in the films. You see: The reason for the inclusion of it doesn't automatically make it bad.
No, we have to look at the final result, and that's where I conclude, that instead of a traditional love story we get a love story in which the boy and the girl don't have a chance and ultimately never share a kiss. They don't even get started - once the girl decides to give love a chance, the boy dies right before his eyes. So we get a tragic story about loss.
Beautiful Night
They may be two different things but the reality is that your conclusion is completely made up. It has no basis on anything other than it is your interpretation of a story that never existed in the actual book...and ONLY existed in the film for the purpose of making more money. That is the real final result. Anything "deeper" than that is nothing more than what you yourself made it out to be.
0:58 I love how Lee acted this part. It's like he's saying "You're saying this because you don't even know the story behind this arrogant face"
Random fun fact. In the Appendix of The Lord of the Rings. Thranduil plays a major role in the War of the Ring. His army defends Mirkwood from a separate army of Orcs that Sauron sent into their realm. He helps protects the Western front. Dain and Bard's grandson fight protect Erebor and Dale from another army of Orcs Sauron sent to them. They die fighting side by side.
Sauron never sent a army of Orcs to Dale and Erebor. All the Orcs in Dol Guldur was split into two; one marched north into the Woodland Realm while the other half marched west into Lothlorien. The army that assaulted Dale and Erebor were Easterlings, wicked Men from Rhunaer and Balchoth.
@@amordramon22 i would pay to watch the war in the north during the seige of minas tireth. Thandruil leading the silvan elves to victory
@@LandStrider23 Agreed. Have Lee Pace return to reprise his role and keep Peter Jackson as the director. The only way to visually see the War in the North is througb games like War in the North amd Battle for Middle-Earth
@@amordramon22 God no,my heart couldn't take it. Seeing him die in the battefield- nonono. I'd cry my heart out.
@@luan3431 Who are you talking about? The only known who died at Dale and Erebor was King Brand, the grandson of Bard, and Dain Ironfoot
I totally dig Thranduil's immense drive to recover those jewels.
I mean, yeah sure he has Legolas as a living memory of his wife but Legolas is of his own and his son would always not be around him all the time and eventually go on his way.
He would at least have those jewels as a constant reminder of his beloved through the thousands of years after he lost her.
botfa biggest mistakes was they deleted so many important scenes that add depth to the character...
It all makes sense now. I can see why her comment sent him into rage...it was a slap in the face of a man so overcome with grief that he can't even speak his wife's name. He isn't the greedy prick the film would have us believe. I had a feeling there was something more to him...it's a shame they didnt include this in the film.
I want a scene where you see how his wife died so bad. It would have explained his whole character, why he is like he is. He's one of my all time favorite characters, so it's sad that he doesn't get more explained. He and Legolas deserve an own movie, where you see the backstory of them.
In the books it is explained, but has nothing to do with his wife. He experienced horrors in Mordor during the Battle of the Last Alliance, and watched his father cut down in front of him along with the majority of their people, all slaughtered. They then became the faces in the Dead Marshes. Thraduil retreated deep into Mirkwood, building his kingdom under the ground, after that. He never fully recovered from what he experienced and it caused a shadow to lie in his heart evermore.
Thousands of years before that, he and his father witnessed their king (Thingol) murdered by dwarves who double crossed him over one of the most beautiful and priceless necklaces that ever existed. Thingol had asked the dwarves to forge the necklace for him, but in payment they demanded the necklace itself. When he refused they cut him down, which lead to a massacre on both sides and their trust was never renewed. That's why Thranduil distrusts the dwarves to such an extent. And what happened in Mordor is why he has separated himself from the world.
I'm currently working on a video about him but mostly it will explore outtakes and deleted scenes etc, I'm hoping to incorporate some of his book backstory in there but haven't figured it all out yet :)
@@Vexarax where is the video now
@@someonewhospams0w0inchat16 I hid a bunch of my videos as I need to focus on other stuff for now, then I will hopefully get back to my content for this channel when I have my life sorted!! I also have videos I spent a long time making that I didn’t even upload Y_Y but life must come first!! Then I can get back to the fun stuff when I have things under control 🙏🏻
@@Vexarax bruh
@@someonewhospams0w0inchat16 yeah I have a family I have to feed etc so sadly the fun stuff has to take a backseat for now as food prices are rising!! :)
They should have left this in! I think that not giving the audience this simple explanation of Thranduil's backstory and motivation actually does a huge disservice to the incredible work that Lee Pace did.
Seks
Executive meddling always sucks and this forced cutting of this moment and the moment where Thranduil says why he's at Erebor with his army for the second time is no execption.
And let's not also forget Thorin's tantrum when he asks Bard and Thranduil, "Why should I buy back that which is rightfully mine?"
Also, good riddance to Alfred.
Legolas broke his father's heart, poor Thranduil
yup he did, all because of tauriel
@Hassan 2k Whiteside aww how cute, you learned a new word today :)
No he didn't. He simply was not willing to fight Legolas.
@@MicahElohim
He did break his heart.
I love how he yields to his Legolas. Not out of fear but out of respect for the love he has for his Son, his baby!
Agreed. I feel like throughout the films, he - like many parents - still sees his little boy when he looks at Legolas, even though Legolas is all grown up. He’s very protective of Legolas because he’s terrified of losing him.
this totally should have been included. I loved Thranduil but i kinda thought he was a jerk doing all this for some gems that i thought were like just some heirlooms or something, this puts so much more meaning into his cause
i agre with u..
+EdgewalkerFTW excuse me saving your people is selfish..thorin is the greedy king not thranduil. yeah,he maybe arrogant but he was humbled in the end when he saw lots of elves died in battle..
+Adrijana Radosevic you're also wrong. when gollum was rescued by orcs sauron had already tortured everything out of him, hence why sauron rescued him in the first place. He knew about gollum and let him escape mordor and wanted him to find the ring and bring it to him. After gollum's escape he pursues frodo and if he hadn't escaped frodo would never have made it to mordor and even if he did he would put on the ring and take himself to sauron, so the elves kindness was what saved everyone.
Adrijana Radosevic let the lotr lore battles begin...
"It was that very night of summer, yet moonless and starless, that Orcs came on us at unawares. We drove them off after some time; they were many and fierce, but they came from over the mountains, and were unused to the woods. When the battle was over, we found that Gollum was gone, and his guards were slain or taken. It then seemed plain to us that the attack had been made for his rescue, and that he knew of it beforehand. How that was contrived we cannot guess; but Gollum is cunning, and the spies of the Enemy are many."
-Legolas from The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
I think we may assume that Sauron decided it would be dangerous to leave one who knew so much about the ring in enemy hands, so he sent an orc party to rescue him.
Aragon had found gollum, near the dead marshes, before frodo left the shire, and his escape was first heard of at elrond's council.Yet Gollum had been caught before by gandalf who spoke to him and then set him free in what he called his biggest mistake, because after that gollum made his way to mordor and aragon found him on his way back.
+Adrijana Radosevic You are entirely correct except for the fact that Killi and Tauriel became acquainted in 'The Desolation of Smaug'.
From the moment his sword strikes her bow, the movement to his close proximity to her is astounding. He closes the gap almost beyond belief.
I love the look on Thranduil's face when Gandalf lays it on him, you can see anger, regret, despair and realization all at the same time. Brilliant acting by Lee Pace in this scene.
so this 30 seconds important scenes explaining why Thranduil was willing to lead his entire army to war for a handful of jewels was cut out from the extended version, but the death of Alfried, the coward also the character of whom no one really cares was not deleted at all, what's the logic of that?
CentreLeft Libertarian yup you said it right
its why the hobbit sucked
@@Athraxas First movie is bloated and overlong. Dwarf characters are dull as hell and they are never established properly outside of Balin and James Nesbitt.
Thorin is very disappointing too.
when thranduil say are you ready to die for it he was thinking about his wife who died to save him and legolas
Frankly I disliked the entire love story as it didn't achieve anything.
But the Casting of Thranduil was perfect bloody great
probably because tauriel never existed in the source material and was created to be a generic romantic b plot in the story because jackson was scared it wouldn't live up to the previous trilogy. A self fulfilling prophecy. But yeah Lee Pace makes a great elf king.
Same. It was only two fill out the story into a trilogy
I was thrilled to see Thranduil's face while disappointed to see Legolas sided Tauriel than himself. I see that as a father, Thranduil actually very fond of his son. Only the father isn't accustomed to show his love for his son. This is very different to a mother who would show her love for her children
yeah thranduil is not showy of his feelings for legolas but sure we did know he loves his son so much..
I have always hated the "there is no love in you"-part... he chooses to retreat for the love of his people. He wanted to seal the gates to protect the people he loves. He has shown over and over again he loves his son. The hunt for the gems (without the connection to his wife) shows his love for material, and with the connection there is even more love in him.
Thalia on the other hand falls in love with an individual she has seen for about 5-10 minutes.
It's Tauriel, not Thalia. I really hate her. She took up soooo much screen time, and she wasn't even in the book to begin with.
@@thegirlwhoreadstoomuch9339 too much was made of her but I did not hate her. She wasn't horribly annoying like a lot of "fluff" characters are. Think of all the modern day junk characters where they are female and invincible and can beat up 27 men with their pinky without any combat training… etc.
@@stevenwilson5556 Good point.
God, does Gandalf really have a doubt about what Thranduil values the most? It is obvious that this father loves his son more than anything else in the world. You can read that in his eyes anytime (it's even more blatant in their last scene together). Just because he seems cold and doesn't show his feelings doesn't mean he doesn't care for Legolas. Losing your loved one is terrible and raising your child by yourself is such a difficult thing to do. I know what I'm talking about as my son was only 3 when my husband died. You don't have time to mourn. There are moments you would just curl into a ball and cry your eyes out, but you just can't, because your child doesn't want to see you sad. He needs you to be strong, so that he knows he can rely on you because you are everything to him. So you can never be weak (at least, that's what you convince yourself) and you end up repressing your sadness and building yourself a shell. Some people find the right balance between the "Strong figure" and the "loving" one, others don't and have yet to learn they can soften a little now and then. That's Something I still find hard to indulge in so I never tell my son how much I love him and I may appear quite cold with him. Yet he's my whole world and I'd gladly die for him. I'm sure Thranduil feels the same about Legolas.
i absolutely agree with u..
It's more of a rhetorical question... he wonders how far Thranduil has fallen...
Gandalf knows Thranduil is a good person. Good persons often go astray however and lose objectivity. Gandalf was just forcefully reminding him - I doubt anyone else would ever question the King so it was required.
truth
No, his wife died to protect Legolas. I think Thranduil sees Legolas as the product of a bad trade-off, and the necklace as the representation of his wife.
When instead he should see Legolas as the representation of his wife.
I feel that Thranduil is far more complex than what is explained throughout the trilogy. His encounters with king Thorin at the palace and the brief moments he has with Legolas, either Lee did a great job portraying the character or Thranduil is a terribly damaged elf that has built a wall around his heart.
Both
Thranduil was the only interesting part of this movie.. ...
also legolas
you forgot Galadriel
x13years and Dain
Okay... so in other words...
_The Elves_ were the *only* interesting part.
Plus Smaug and the wizards.
Dwarves and Tauriel were the worst thing about these movies.
They should do a movie from the elves point of view, I don't think the elves are as "asshole-ish" as they are portrayed to be
the Elves of the First Age are
N.T Ploeg Why do you think that Thranduil‘s elves are bad warriors? In the book, it says that they‘re „more dangerous and less wise“. The elves of Rivendell may have been the more intelligent house and they were incredibly skilled fighters as well, but that doesn‘t make the elves of the Woodland Realm any less threatening.
I always hated how weak the elves were portrayed in the movies. They were dangerous as hell - especially because they don‘t always think before they act ;-)
Why would anyone think Elves are assholes when Dwarves were just as bad? Thorin lost himself when he saw a bunch of gold.
@N.T Ploeg You know shit about Thranduil in the book.
There are many Elven houses. Thranduil was one of Sindar, one of the Iatrim. He ruled the Nandor. Sindar were famous for being high-egoed, like Elu Thingol, but they never were potrayed as assholes, Ñoldor were, those under Fëanors rule especially.
This and the goddamned funeral should have been kept in. F*** Warner Bros. they screwed Peter over
I mean how hard is it to just add like an extra 15 seconds and 1 extra line that explains so much. I also really liked all of Thranduil's facial expressions in this.
Thranduil mustve loved his wife to start war over her gems. Elves mate for eternal life. his wife's death turned him to a loveless king who can't show affection, not even to his son. He doesn't see tauriels love as being real bc thranduil and his wife was probably in love for centuries before she died,her death impacted him so badly that he became a cold, almost heartless being. Tauriels 2 day love with kili really does seem ludicrous compared to thranduils very sad "single father" story ...also I read smewhere from a Tolkien article about eleves, that elves can die from heartbreak. I think that's metaphorical, like a huge part of thranduil died, it seems, when he lost his wife . He seemed like a shell of his former self, esp when he showed affection at the end , that was a hint to the affectionate person he once was
I'm just going to ignore the fact that this should have been in the theatrical release and admire Lee Pace's facial expressions, they're amazing!
Thranduil is proving Tauriel wrong because he allowed her to live for the love he has for his son. Hence, "what do you know of love?"
This scene right here not only explains everything but makes me feel for and relate to Thranduil, and honestly puts him at a high spot on my list for favorite hobbit/lotr movie characters.
The look on Thranduil’s face when Gandalf says “Which do you think she would have you value more?” A look of pure pain when he realizes he was driving his son away... poor man
And also a painful realization that he has become as greedy and selfish as he accuses the dwarfs to be.
So Peter Jackson was just like, 'This scene adds more depth to the character, explains a lot, and is only a few seconds longer than what we're going to put in anyway; shall we put it in the movie? Nah.'
i think pj messed up the whole movie..he deleted important scenes and put a lot of alfrid screen time which is basically not important...
+Che lee Each time Alfrid apears on the screen I just fast forward.
Zay Jay It doesn't really matter if the elven army would fight or not, Thranduil is their commander, they do what Thranduil tells them to.
+Zay Jay yeah you are right but it would be a better motivation than what was revealed in the movie..his wife's gems has a more sentimental value.
I don't think it was his fault, It's Warner Brothers who had the last say in this - it was them who chose which scene stay in and which's gonna get deleted. They were also the ones who wanted that love triangle, PJ never wanted Legolas to be added into it. In fact PJ was furious when he found out what the studio hadn't included in the Extended Edition.
Poor Thranduil 😔😢 he has suffered so much. I wanna hug him
I loved this depiction of Thranduil. The actor was simply amazing.
This is such a short yet meaningfull scene between Gandalf and Thranduil that I think it should have been in the theatrical version... This definately brings some insight to Thranduil's character, motives and his actions later on...
This Thranduil is the most dominant caracter have ever seen in history of movie.I can not stop watching this sequence
This should have been in the movie. Not even 30 seconds and we understand just why Thranduil is so hung up on those gems. Why, New Line, why?
Lee Pace brought life to one of my most favorite characters.
It's never explained why Legolas and Thranduil relationship is so strained. We know it has something to do with his mother but Legolas as an elf would understand his fathers grief. He should be comforting his father not fighting against him. That's what the Legolas we all once knew would have done. He seems so different in this film...
True. But on the other hand, you've got to remember that this stoy takes place many years before Lotr. So maybe it's more believeable to imagine that Legolas matured as well, in those years until the Fellowship and thus changed to the elf we met then.
ture firecracker91 but it's also normal for a father and son to fight once the mother is out of the picture
He seems more angsty in this movie.
Alexa Wolf less contact with mortal men
"My mother died there. My father doesn't speak of it. There is no grave. No memory. Nothing."
So Thranduil basically doesn't talk to Legolas about his mother and keep the memories to himself. That's why they don't get along. Legolas's facial expressions when he talks about his mother are rather both sad and nostalgic like he remembers the time when things weren't like that.
They had one interaction in Desolation of Smaug and they seemed rather formal with each other. Thranduil treated Legolas like another subject. I think one more interaction between them would have been nice.
"It is a fell place, Tauriel. In another age, our people waged war on those lands." So Tauriel doesn't know about the history of Woodland realm in Angmar which shows nobody discusses the queen's death.
One of the things I love most about LOTR, it doesn't really matter what clip you watch on youtube, when you get to the comments section you see the type of people that are drawn to this literature. Civil, polite and friendly communications, even when someone virulently disagrees on a topic, it's still civil and respectful of others. Thankyou JRR, thankyou for making us better people.
Tauriel does not need to be in this movie, not only does it try to do the Aragorn and Arwen Story, but they try to make it work which it doesn't. Having Legolas would have made sense since he's in Lord of The Rings but not every movie needs a love story, it's over used to much to "fill in" a movie that's over 2 hours long
Why do film makers always cut out the best scenes from the movies? This scene proves that Thranduil isn't a greedy maniac. He simply wanted that necklace because it belonged to his beloved wife.
I feel so bad for him it makes me cry to see Thranduil like that
Me too..i love this fictional character.
This has to be one of my favorite scenes in the entire trilogy, even if it’s technically not in the movie! It makes Thranduils character motivations make sense entirely and adds that poetic touch that makes Tolkien so special
People hate on these movies, but honestly Thrandil runs on a level of honor that most people just don't understand.
I do understand it. The reason why people (including me) hate on these movies is because the movies in The Hobbit trilogy in no way resemble the book they were "based" off of. That being said, the movies are masterpieces. The Thranduil character from the movies was a very good character, and they did a great job with him. I'm just disappointed that they did such a bad job adapting the book into the movies.
@@thegirlwhoreadstoomuch9339 There's tons from the book in the movies, and they are simply stretching things out for the sake of making a movie. True there's some divergence, but there's a lot in there that is very respectful of Tolkien. The dragon for example was beautifully done, showing cunning and malice in a way that you hardly ever see in any dragon. The death scene for Thorin where he talks with Bilbo is just brilliant.
@@stevenwilson5556 Agreed! I've seen SO much hate on these movies, but honestly, they're some of my favorite movies of all time (top 2 at least). I've read countless things about how and why people hate them, but I've never been able to watch them and fully understand why. I think people are way too critical sometimes.
@@GoldenDragonGamer they are not perfect, and I can see why some people have problems with them. For example the 3rd with the Legolas doing the air walking across the falling tower is just lame. But there's a lot of fun and great stuff in them. I like Thranduil for example.
@@stevenwilson5556 Yeah. They're definitely not perfect, but they're not meant to be. They're just meant to be a fun adventure, and not to be taken as seriously as people do. (The air walking is definitely a bit far fetched but I don't mind, it was kind of cool 🤣)
Thranduil is a great character. I also like after his strike here that he appeared close to the camera, it was really well done!
THIS SHOULD HAS BEEN ON THE MOVIE!! I already know the story BUT!! THIS! Gandalf's words, Thranduil's face...that was everything we need.
His arrogance is a shield
I can identify with it and that's why I like him so much, seing him sad and broken on the other hand hurts me too, understandable of course
Not a lot of people know this but Thranduil suffered another great loss in the form of his father Oropher who died in the battle of the Last Alliance. I think for Elves death hits them harder due to their immortality. Never being able to reunite with their deceased loved ones in death.
Thranduil and oropher l you beuayuil só me miss famliy um thogether lá him rings fimles melher pó de love atrás anos triste de sente sorry tambe you love YES ❤️🙂☺️💝
It was here that Thranduil realized he had gone too far. He was willing to throw lives away over some gems and even kill one of his own if they get in the way. In that regard it made him no better than the dwarves he deemed greedy and beneath him. Yes, the gems apparently belonged to his wife, but Gandalf was absolutely right here. Would your wife want you to value some gems over the very life of your son?
I agree, to me, he would have been a traitor to his people by committing murder on his own.
@@jediweaponmasterliam9 The last time an elf killed another elf over gems was many thousands of years prior to this. It was a very dark chapter in elvish history. All of those who committed such acts are no longer alive, and are being punished in the halls of the dead for it. Still, he was on that line and ready to walk over it for the first time in millennia.
@@zero3778 Wow, I didn't know that.
@@jediweaponmasterliam9 oh yeah. It happened twice in two major events. Galadriel's half brother and his sons were the primary offenders. The gods took it pretty seriously and were not happy about it. As a matter of fact, Elrond's mother was one of their targets in the second instance as she had one of the gems they wanted. The half brother and all his sons have been dead for thousands of years, and no elf has killed another since.
@@zero3778 Damn. Oh yeah, I actually found out that the Halls if the Dead is actually called the Halls of Mandos.
Those gems are the only memory left of his wife, he had to fight to get them back even if it means to kill the greedy dwarves.
At 0:12 right before Thranduil swipes the sword his face looks all calm and collected. Then as he swipes, Tauriel's face momentarily covers the camera and when you can see Thranduil's face again, he is PISSED. Cool bit of cinemography that is hard to notice at first.
She accused him of not knowing what love was even though his wife is dead and he's apparently still mourning even after centuries have passed.
Such an excellent movie. I have all extended version and I cry every time at the end. Love this movie!
Shut UP Tauriel.
Imagine losing the love of your life and enduring it through immortality. If you've read Silmarillion, Eru actually gifted mortality to men (which they took as a weakness), because immortality is tragedy in so many ways.
And they did not just cut a scene who would have saved the NOBLEST king from the bad opinion of thousand of half-fans which did not read the book or saw this, no! They even cut a great performance from a great actor, Lee pace, who seemed so real in this that I can't distingue him from the Elv-king anymore. Which I find OFFENSIVE for his hardwork to realize this scene. Plus, we lost another pearl of wisdom from Gandalf, who as always demonstrates to be the wisest man ever existed (I'm sorry dumbledore, he defeats even you). No words, really. You damned film-direction...
Hatty Tarrant true WB always cuts scenes from their movies,e.g.-BatmanvSuperman,Suicide Squad,etc
Warner Bros executives are corrupt greedy trash. They put Smaug to shame.
I never liked Tauriel saying that Thranduil has no love because he does, he just has a hard time expressing it.
Gandalf is right! Those gems were precious indeed. But Legolas, is a living, breathing part of his mother.
Gandalf has got one heck of a point there!
Pity they didn't put these few seconds extra in the movie.
Gandalf is a Maiar (one of the beings that, along with Eru ("The One Who is Alone"), sang the world into existence in the time before time). He's essentially a minor god in a person suit, and literally older than the world. So, he's one of the few beings who can talk to Thranduil as if he was a grandfather dispensing wisdom. Legolas is 2951 years old in this scene, and his father Thranduil is *much* older, but Gandalf is literally older than time.
If the movie had had fewer dwarves and more Thranduil, I would have been fascinated.
True
I wouldn't care if he feels love or not. If Thranduil was my king, he'd have a loyal subject. He's majestic.
See, some of the hobbit makes absolutely no sense and should've been cut, but this is absolute gold. I actually enjoyed that they talked about Legolas' mother, even if there's very little of it. It gives Thranduil a complex backstory and an actual reason for him to want the white jewels and stuff.
She left you a son...
Hits ya right in the feels 😭
This scene should’ve been in the film. A great scene that explains why the Elf king wants the necklace in the first place.
Why wasn't this part in the original version? It would have filled the gap between why was Thranduil about to kill Tauriel in one moment and come after her afterwards.
Hi Mariana Phoenix. My name is Kayla Lindsey
Thranduil, as Tolkien wrote him, was not the heartless tyrant that is depicted in the Hobbit films. They didn't need to come up w/ another "bad guy" in order to make the storyline more interesting. These little bits can't fix the contrived feel of this arc. The only logical reason for Thranduil to take his army to Erebor (he does not know if the dwarves survived meeting Smaug) is to keep orcs and/or goblins from making it into a convenient base for attacks on the surrounding areas esp. his kingdom. The whole jewelry motive doesn't make sense in light of his own history in Thingol Greycloak's kingdom of Doriath. How could he expect his people to fight and die for one piece of jewelry which is only of significance to him?
+elleevne Well most of this is Peter Jackson's fault, of course. But in terms of the books, remember that The Hobbit was published in 1938, and at that time much of the Silmarillion "history" wasn't yet in anything close to final form. When you read the Hobbit, Thranduil does seem a lot like the Silm's Thingol. It's quite clear that JRRT was thinking of Thingol when he wrote Hobbit-Thranduil. I guess he simply hadn't yet worked out these issues when the Hobbit was published.
+Robert Hoy Thingol Greycloak was not a heartless tyrant in the Silmarillion either. He definitely made a big mistake, but he was not depicted as Thranduil is in the Hobbit films. There are enough passages in the Hobbit to give a pretty good impression of Thranduil as basically a sensible, responsible king (who enjoyed feasting w/ his people) and who kept the worth of gold and jewels in their proper perspective.
+elleevne I didn't say he was! And I agree with you, totally, about Jackson destroying Thranduil's character. I was referring to your "doesn't make sense in light of his own history..." comment, was just pointing out that Book-Thranduil would probably have been different if he'd been written -after- LOTR and the Silm were fully developed.
elleevne Notes? The line in the book is clear enough: “If the elf-king had a weakness it was for treasure, especially for silver and white gems.” I'm not sure what we're arguing about here though. I like Thranduil too! But everyone has their weaknesses, and we both know Elves don't always learn from past mistakes :).
+Robert Hoy The operative word here is "IF";. Tolkien seems to have left the idea open to speculation. However, the other parts of the Hobbit which talk about Thranduil's activities and motivations do not support the idea that he would consider silver and white gems as grounds to risk the lives of his people. In the book, it is Thranduil who tempers Bard's eagerness for battle : "Long will I tarry, ere I begin this war for gold". The elves already had greater defense issues to use their resources on.
lol thranduil has the most HILARIOUS face expressions:) Like tauriel points an arrow at him and he's like, TAURIEL HOW COULD YOU???
Annie and Kylie yup she is an insolent bastard.
Well, it was probably quite shocking, since in the elven culture kin-slaying (the murder of other elves) is seen as an abomination.
Damn this scene here really touches my heart. Just by the dialogue and expressions, you can tell that both Legolas and Thranduil care about each other. I love that for these movies, they dropped the toxic father-son relationship and actually gave theses two characters a good one. Legolas saying “you’ll have to kill me” instead of “I’ll kill you”, and Thranduil withdrawing right away say a lot. He didn’t even dare to go against his son. He also seems heartbroken by the single thought of it 🥹.
Thranduil x his wife is so canon and beautiful it hurts. Those two, I love them so much!
What do you know of love?
Man...Thranduil’s face when Legolas shows up I feel like is probably just saying to himself “what have I become?”- And again even more so when Gandalf speak to him.
When tauriel's lover died fighting for her then she understood thranduil's brokenness. Elders have more experience.
I don’t understand how they didn’t put this in the movie it would’ve given so much character backstory to Thranduil that we didn’t understand in the original cut
I felt Thrabduil's character so much. For many different reasons. Sometimes I worry I'll end up like a bad father like mine was, and that one day I might lose sight of the fact that at the end of the day, the only thing that is important to me is that kid. Great King, sometimes misguided.
The more I learn of elves the more beautiful they become
Why do they ALWAYS cut out important and meaningful scenes. These few seconds wouldve explained soo much and paint Thraunduil in a totally different picture than many of us viewed him as. So many films couldve been a lot better than they were by keeping their deleted scenes.
I honestly do not like Tauriel. She's easily stirred up, too often follows her feelings before thinking, disrespects orders, she'd put her king's and her peoples' lives at stake for a Dwarf (which is nowhere near how Tolkien depicted the two races together), and she offends her king by literally threatening him with a deadly arrow. That in itself bears the penalty of banishment (as Elves I doubt would have the death penalty on their kin).
Thranduil is harsh, but he wants the best for all his people, not just a single Silvan Elf. Especially since his father and later his own wife got brutally murdered by Orcs; an inner feeling that he has let down those He loved the most. Let's just say that's not all, and that his life in Middle Earth has left more than one mark on him. I like to believe that because of this, he's come to a conclusion that the best he can do is look after his own people - which some races, like the Dwarves of Erebor, did not appreciate and did not give back the jewels of starlight which belonged to his wife! ANYONE would be grieved by this and would find no reason to be any kinder to any other but your own kind.
And then Tauriel starts doing this? A lowly Silvan elf indeed.
"you have no love in you ... "
Who does she think she is speaking to? To her step-mother or the highest official of her government?
Tauriel is a clown.
Yea she didn’t think it through.. her head would be on a spike if not for Legolas
@@tiaaaron3278 Was that her job in the books? Why isn't it in the movies??
@@DutchMolenaar She was not in the book... at least, I do not remember her. There was no female character in The Hobbit, as far as I could remember.
That is part of the reason why Tolkien-- no matter how admired he is-- is considered sexist by some people...
"Tell me which would she have you value more?"
Thranduil: "THE GEMS, OBVIOUSLY... I'm immortal, I can make many sons... but gems......."
Nay, he can't. Elves only marry once.
@@tiaaaron3278 Really? Can't say I remember them EVER mentioning that. Source please?
@@campbelldowler1396 It's in one of the other books (The Silmarillion, HoME, UT,etc). Finwë was the only elf to have remarried and that union is considered an exception among elves. Not to mention they had the Valar's direct blessing. Thranduil hasn't even met the Valar.
You 🤡🤡🤡