UNFAIRLY Low-Scored Wines on VIVINO App
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- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2024
- I was recently organizing my wine fridge and decided to add all my loose bottles in the VIVINO wine app. Some of these bottles, in my opinion, have undeservingly low score on VIVINO. In this video I will try to understand and explain why that is.
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*CONTENTS OF THIS VIDEO
0:00 Introduction
0:35 My thoughts on VIVINO
2:29 Wine 1
3:41 Wine 2
4:34 Wine 3
5:50 Wine 4
7:00 Wine 5
#vivino #wineeducation #wine
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I was pretty active on Vivino for years and have met some wonderful people from it. I do find that with higher quality wines are generally scored by wine geeks/enthusiasts, which takes worry away IMO. That 3.9 score is quite high IMO esp if there are a lot of reviews.
That being said, I’m pro these apps as it helps get more people to try new types of wines. I find that somms and shop owners are against it (because they fear it discounts their credibility) but at the end it does help to ultimately MOVE more wine.
That San Felice offers great QPR IMO.
I think a great addition to the app would be if you could select your own reviewers so you can create a more personal advise. Maybe only reviews from critics with at least 500 reviews. Or only the top x from each country? Or even only your friends? Will need some extra calculation power though, but the data is available..
I think I look more from a winemakers point of view. They invest a lot of energy in their product, literally: blood, sweat and tears (done some harvests 😂😂😂) and only because it is less popular style or grape it gets scored lower.
I think with wine, more so than any other product, Your appreciation grows with Your knowledge, no?
Matthew, thank You for commenting and Cheers! 🥂🍾
I am a winemaker who judges at competitions periodically and I can tell you that a wine’s score is not always indicative of its quality. Sometimes at a particular moment, a wine might strike you perfectly and you will score it highly. Yet in another moment it may not be to your liking. Everyone’s palate is different. Everyone grades wines differently as well. No better judge than your own palate.
Thank You, You described it perfectly. I couldn’t agree more. And yes, while professional scores gives You indication of quality, our own preferences are way important. Also some wines are rarely judged blind, because without context they would score way too low. 😅 cheers!🥂🍾
agree
I mainly use VIVINO to keep track of my cellar, but also to keep track of my tasting notes. I love the fact that you can search your own tasting notes and see if you have rated a wine before, or another wine from the same producer, to go back to a tasting note of an older vintage, etc. I check other people's reviews as well, but there are a few people I follow because they have tasted dozens, or sometimes hundreds of the type of wine I specifically like. I think it's fun to be in a small online circle of people who love Loire Cab Franc or Beaujolais crus. As everyone who's commenting here, I get incredibly annoyed by people giving insanely low ratings for outstanding wines from fantastic producers, just because they find the acidity to high, but give outrageously high scores to those jammy, oaky, sweet primitivos. I'm pretty sure they think I'm a wine snob though... they're probably right
I actually use Vivino for similar reasons. I keep track of the wines I have in my wine fridge for the school tastings. Otherwise it is difficult to know what You have and what You are missing. 🍷
I really dont buy my Wines from vivino ratings. What i do is follow People with a lot of experince and the same flavor profile as mine and get inspirerd by Them. That is What i use vivino for
Smart! I do the same thing! 😉☺️
Especially in Germany, the list of the most popular wines on vivino between 7 - 30 Euros includes probably at least 20% Primitivo. This style is so increadibly popular here and people tend to mark down other reds for allegedly "lacking some intensity and ripeness". This is the problem with this app, that people who mistake residual sugar for noble fruit and richness, are able to contribute as much to the overall score as people that are able to differentiate🤷. Very controversial topic though ...
Fellow German here. I think your analysis is spot on.
Same goes in Sweden. Ripasso, Primitivo and sugary Montepulcianos rule supreme 🤷
Yes, it is very controversial topic, I agree. Primitivo is also very popular here in Baltics. And I agree, r/s is often confused with ripeness and richness and concentration in wine. :( But I also understand why people go for sweeter wines. 🤷♀️ Anyway, cheers and Happy New Year! 🥂🍾✨
@@NoSediment It is true, without being aware of the difference between residual sugar, ripeness, richness and concentration, or simply lacking the physical ability to distinguish between the tastes, it is all too easy to mistake one for the other. In the world of tea, it is just as it is with wines, people tend to gravitate toward the sweetest, most fruit forward teas, especially as beginners. Understanding that different terroirs and the time of year, and the way that each harvest is processed to obtain the various flavors can involve a lot of time and effort, enables us to have more realistic expectations and to better understand why some offerings are so much more expensive than others, resulting in much more enjoyable experiences.
Love the quality of your content. The bottle reveal is comforting.
Thank You! ✨🍾🥂 Cheers!
Your videos are extremely informative and really appreciate your perspectives and opinions. Cheers!
Thank You! It means a lot to me! Cheers! 🥂✨🍾
Keep on Keeping on You are spot on with your focus about wine.
Thank You for the lovely comment! 🙏🏻
My goodness please do not let everyone know about how good Hunter Valley Semillon is!! We down here in Aus are happy to keep it all for ourselves!!
I would love for you to do a tasting of the legendary Tyrrell’s Vat 1. The gold standard for Hunter Semillon.
I AM SO SORRY, will never do that again! 🤐 let’s just keep the great wines between You and me! 🤫
Most people don't realize Vivino is just another form of "social media", and so you have to take the ratings with the same sized grains of salt you would anything else you see on social media platforms. Although a LOT of Vivino users are Wine Professionals, or well-trained enthusiasts, there are still many. people posting there that don't have the first clue as to how a particular wine is supposed to taste...
I really like how You put it: “another form of social media”. Yes, it is true. And I guess I also didn’t realise this before I made that video. 🤔🍾 Maybe I should also take it less seriously. 😂 Cheers and thank You for commenting! 🥂
I agre with you regarding vivino. I have had outstanding wines scored very low on vivino and average vines scored high. But its still a usefull tool. Some are clearly more experienced tasters than others
Yes, it is a useful app, and I want to explore it more. I also have a New Year’s resolution -> to use it more! 🥂✨ Cheers!
I use Vivino a lot (also for the virtual cellar) but I don't interpret the ratings blindly. I follow a around 35 people on Vivino that I trust on their tasting notes and rating, instead of scrolling through random people's comments... I always find it funny how people on Vivino consistantly rate cheap Primitivo higher than medium to high end Nebbiolo (I guess that has to do with the acidity like you said). I work in a wine store and sometimes it is really annoying when people come in, say they will look around themselves, and proceed to scan bottles with the Vivino app... Can't really do anything about it because there is not a polite way of saying that Vivino is not accurate in the scores?
It’s still their decision what they wanna spend their money on, especially if they spend a decent amount on a bottle. Plus, if they feel like Vivino helps them to do so why would you bother? At the end of the day they still spend their money in your store and not online, which you should appreciate greatly.
Oh sweet primitivo di puglia is a classic of overrated bad wine. And poor Madiran and Cahors... Always underrated.... Just because they smell like delicious horse poop....
Yes the high acidity is notable also with Rhone wines. It is long ago that I found a good Rhone wine. Maybe this issue about acidity is worth a mass?
I do use Vivino but you have to be careful with the average scores. Guess there are many types of users on the App, each rating within their tier so to speak. Most wine consumers would never buy a bottle of wine thats over €20 and it they find one they like (most likely a Southern Italian sugar bomb or an overoaked Chardonnay) theyd rate it a four or more. Whereas wine geeks are more critical and perhaps know just how good a bottle of wine can be, therefore reserving the 4+ ratings for real stunners. If I rate a wine 3,0 for example, that for me is a decent bottle of wine that I dont mind drinking
I scan the bottles to check price or remind myself if I have had it before, not score.
Vivino scoring is stronlgy biased towards fruit bomb style wines. So you will find 15 EUR bottles of Primitivo/Negroamaro constantly breaking the 4.0 marks.
You just have to "read between the lines" in these situations. It's the consumers preference... not the specialists.
I have a couple of friends where I learned my lesson when invited to a bbq: I stopped bringing wines that are interesting to me , because they get labeled: "this is too rough" or my favourite "this is too acidic, it hurts my stomach" .
Instead I'll show up with a 5 kilo, 99 points Luca Maroni primitivo bottle and everyone is happy.
Unfortunately I have to agree about the fruit bomb styles. I am happy that way - because my friends are open to taste new wines. And later I judge about the wine (did they like it), if that bottle is empty. 😂😂😂
I agree with your points about some of the problems with Vivino. I mostly use it to keep track of the bottles I have.
This is the best feature about this app, at least in my opinion!
Eric, btw, we - the wine community are waiting for Your return! 😉🍾🥂
Cheers and happy new year! 🥂🍾
I have only recently found your channel but I must admit I’m thoroughly enjoying the content. I have had very mixed results using the Vivino app since its inception in 2010. In the beginning it was mostly used by individuals looking to broaden their cellar content so the reviews were very good with sound advice, sadly as the app became very popular the reviews have become very mixed as have the ratings, do have a recommendation for another good cellaring app? Cheers
Hey, happy You are enjoying my channel! 🥂🍾 Some people have suggested that vivino is just another type of social media, and I have to agree with them. I think vivino is great to keep track of Your cellar and what wines You have enjoyed. Others here have suggested cellar tracker, I used it very long time ago. I will check it again though! 😉
A personal favorite of mine from the Pfalz, Krebs in Freinsheim, is criminally underrated on Vivino. In general I say to not trust average scores and individual tasting notes (unless you know the person and trust their judgement), and just use the app as a personal notebook.
Yes, You are absolutely correct. I know I follow wine critics that I 1) trust; 2) have similar taste in wines. However, my point here was not that people are bad for scoring these wines low, I was looking more from the winemaker’s point of view. 🥂🙈
Great video. I've found that a 3.8 or 3.9 is often quite a good wine. Any wine that's decently made and super oaky seem to get above 4 whereas a wine of comparable quality with little oak might get a high 3. I find vivino is a pretty good took at the lower end of the market to weed out really bad producers. Some 16$ bottles of wine are awesome, but if they're bad, they'll typically get below a 3.5
Thank You for Your insight. Yes, I agree, I also have found very good wines with scores just below 4.0! The sad part is that, some people will consider that a low score (me included), and might dismiss the wine altogether. 😥 And that is too bad for the producer. 😳
Anyway, thank You for Your comment and cheers! 🥂🍾
Nicely done!
Thank You! 🥂🍾
Very helpul video!
Thank You! 🙏🏻 Cheers! 🍾🥂
In general I think most "big wines" meaning wines with a certain number of ratings are rated pretty decent. Keep in mind that only two years ago they implemented the detailed increment system with the possibility to score wines between ,0 and ,5 stars, so a lot of wines receiving 3,5 three years ago could possibly receive a 3,7 today. I checked the scores on 2012 HBL and that seems to have happened to some degree. I've only tasted 2011 myself and scored it 4,0 three years ago. 2012 is a bit of a disappointing vintage though, missing a bit of concentration and structure, and that vintage will often score a little lower than for instance 2011 or 2014 (it's clearly better than 2013 though). If I'm in doubt I always read the actual reviews to see what people have written, hence where the grade came from. Then you get the impression as to whether those scoring a win low know what they're talking about or if they just had a glass at their uncle's birthday with no interest for the wine. I think it's nice to have some more subjective wine scores also, to contrast the more professional wine reviews. The subjective reviews tend to focuse more on "did I enjoy the wine or not".
This is why I read some of the comments, to illustrate why people give these low scores and that very often it has very little to do with wine. 🍷
Your point about: people miss understanding sweetened, very sour or tanninic ones I really can see.
I read the reviews about a Sauternes and so many complained that such an expensive wine is so sweet 🤣🤦♂️
Really, is that true? Great wine, even though it is sweet. Why do we like to hate sweet wines? 🤔🥂🤷♀️
One has to use the rating as a baseline and then go into the comments to find why someone rated a wine low. Most of the times, it’s preference. I would say that the majority of the people who rate know nothing about wine and/or the varietal or region the wine is from. Thought provoking video. Thanks!
Yes, agree with You 💯, that is why I was looking into comments. 🍷
as you mentioned the vivino-app: I would very much appreciate a video about wine cellar app's - there are many at the app store's, but which one does a good job in managing a private wine cellar? ...and btw, your dog is adorable😀
Thank You!
I guess I will be downloading many apps to try them out and then report. So point taken! 🙌 But as You probably noticed, I myself am more old-school person with paper and pen. 😂🙈
Thank You, my dog loves compliments! 🐕
Nice, nice work.
Can u recommend reliable app for wine. Thanx
Thank You! ⚡️ unfortunately, i am still looking into a nice wine app myself. Therefore if You find one worth trying out, let me know. 😉
I’m guilty of inconsistent scoring myself. When I started drinking wine I loved suger bomb reds and super oaky whites, and scored them high. I didn’t like wine that had acidity, so scored Pinot and fresh whites low. As I gained more experience I started appreciating diverse wines, and at the same time became more strict with scoring.
Do I go back and adjust my scorings for wines I rated 10 years ago? …. Not really
This video was not made to blame those who score the wines. It was made for people to learn and trust their own tastes, because with wine we can be so easily influenced. I wanted to highlight that wines are not scored by professional wine critics, but rather people who enjoy wine therefore there is a lot of subjectivity and personal preference - which is what reflects in the scores, not necessarily the quality. 🙌💫 I am sorry if You felt attacked, it was not my intention. 🙏🏻
@@NoSediment no offense taken at all! Always enjoy your videos! :)
Purchased San Felice CC based on your previous review and I agree with you 100% My fav is Brancaia however its double the price
Thank You, so lovely’ 🥂🍾 Cheers! ✨
San Felice make some of the greatest QPR i have ever had. Both chianti clasico riserva grand selectione brunello de monltachino and vigorello. I have many of their vines in my cellar.
Vivino is just a toy compared to CellarTracker. Yes, CT has fewer eye candies (especially the classic mode), but the power of virtually endless possibilities regarding database queries is what makes it great. There are lots of predefined queries, but you can create your own simply by manipulating the address line. For example, what is the most popular Italian white wine drank on Tuesdays? I understand that this is not for everyone, but just imagining what a masterpiece this software is, gives me goosebumps.
Judging by Your comment, I should to finally start to explore all the advantages of this app. TBH I haven’t really gotten into it. 🙏🏻
The San Felice Chianti Classico is absolutely a great bottle! (very good quality/price ratio).. I've also been lucky to find it under 10 eur. .I've enjoyed many bottles
Yes! Same here! 🙌 we are quite fortunate that way! 🍷💥
It seems to me that there is an incredible price bias with these ratings, generally, higher the price of wine - higher the ratings. If all these ratings were done in a blind tasting way, they would look nothing like they do now. I only trust my gut to tell me what kind of wines I should try and then it's all trial and error, until I figure out what is it that I really like and don't like. Price bias is exactly the same with perfumes, people buy expensive perfumes for exclusivity, not for the content. They hate that an inexpensive clone brand has created equally good perfume, because they want to feel special and they also have to convince themselves that they didn't waste their money. People are full of it.
I think it is true, people will often rate an expensive and overall well established brand higher than they normally would. And naturally then a cheaper, but still great wine would be rated lower. It is because price is often linked with quality, and while in majority cases it indeed the case, there are exceptions of course. 🙌
Low Score Wine Is One Thing, But I Want To Score Big Time With A Good Taste. That Will Make Me Drunk With Love!
Hunter Valley Semillon is so divisive, it is such a beautiful wine that so many people hate on for the main reason you raise, they drink it too young, let it sit and turn into something incredible
100% Agree with You! ✨🍾
I like Vivino for keeping track of my wines as well, but I agree with the flaws of depending on user feedback. I do look at the overall rating, but I also always read the comments. Was the score some gave fair or is it one of those “I chose poorly for my meal” or “this isn’t the style I like”, vs. a score that sounds like it comes from someone who knows what the wine should taste like and is giving it a reasonable evaluation? But it is still just an aid and I don’t let the user ratings determine my choices for me. Instead it’s primarily to track my own wines and to keep a record of wines I’ve tasted.
Great and good for You, that You not only follow the ratings, but also analyse them. 🙌 It is so nice to read this! Thank You for the comment and cheers! 🍷
points are person specific. like any food you try. plus it introduces market inflation.
I use the app to keep track of what is in my wine cellar. Pricing and scores are only used as reference
I think that is a very good function for it. I also do the same thing. 💯
Vivino has a score problem which is unavoidable when everyone is free to rate stuff. But it works so long as you "stay in your lane", by that I mean that scores are fairly accurate so long as you are the target audience. For example if you are the kind of person who enjoys cheap super market wine then it's great that you can go in and scan the aisle and you will get a whole range of ratings where some stuff will probably be in the 4-5 range. But I can also go in to a specialty wine store and scan the Bordeaux shelves and get the same range of ratings. That just means that the kind of people who drink pricey Bordeaux enjoy Chateau Talbot as much as supermarket wine drinkers enjoy snoop dogs wine.
Hi, thank You for the comment. 🙌 I understand what You mean, but I still see a problem there. I noticed ‘great and famous’ names having higher scores in general than the same quality lesser known wine - that goes for the specialist wines. 😅 And then in the supermarket category- Primitivos score very high, but that doesn’t mean these wines are for every taste or even adhere the quality expected from 4+ scored wine.
Anyway, that is just an argument for an arguments sake. I am sure people know how to get the best out of this app, and it works just great! 🙌
Cheers and thank You! 🥂
Hi, Agnese.
I find you at Vivino App.
You are Pinot Noir.🙂🍷🍷
Hahaha! 🥂🍷
2000 pavillion de bellevue from medoc.
My all time favourite with a vivino score 3.6 😅
Well, it just shows how really different is our taste preferences when it comes to wine. And it is completely fine to enjoy wines that others (even if in majority) don’t prefer! 🤷♀️ Cheers! 🥂🍾
I´ve actually been in contact with Vivino a couple of years ago, about their prices. One wine in particularly, which I sell at my store, Cono Sur Silencio, which retails for 134 Euros, but was listed at around 11 Euros, with over 200 different ratings. They explained it could be due to a wrong currency listed, but I don´t buy it.
I know this wine very well. OMG, yes, it is definitely not that cheap. Maybe some people mixed with the regular Cono Sur Pinot Noir Bicicleta?
@@NoSediment They have a wide range of lines, Bicicleta, Organic Bicicleta, Reserva Especial, 20 Barrels, beside their top Pinot Noir Ocio (retails at around 50 Euros), but none of the labels looks similar to Silencio. My best guess would be faults in Vivino´s recognition software, during the early days of the app.
I think when entering the price in the app you can also say how many bottles you bought/the price refers to. So if you add the right price per bottle, but tell Vivino that it is the price for 6 bottles, that would explain the way too low price shown.
Never had a Vivino account. I read through it sometimes. But I pay far more attention to You and Dr. Horkey.
That is so sweet, thank You for this compliment. ✨ Cheers! 🥂🍾
Excellent video Agnese..! Ok, I don't know anything about Vivino App or any other wine rating websites, but after watching your video my brainstorm is below:
It woukd be nice if the Vivino App would have a sliding scale for each major wine rating category. This would allow customers to "dial in" their wine palate preferences (e.g. tannins, acidity, etc.) Then hit Go..!
The result would be list of wines that satisfy the criteria settings.
The only weakness is that "humans" would be providing the category ratings, and of course susceptible to subjectivity and opinions... However, the overall ratings would be averages, which would balance out the extreme category rating swings.
Hopefully I'm not inserting foot in mouth, and something similar already exists... 🤪 And, of course everyone's personal experience and opinion is the only one that really counts..! 🤨🎊🎉✨️🙂💞🍷
Thanks Agnese, you are a gem 💎💖
Hey! 👋
Your comments makes absolute sense, unfortunately I also don’t have much experience with wine apps. I should explore them more. And vivino is not a bad app, it is just sometimes sad to see decent wines scored so low. 🥹
Cheers to You and have a joyous Holiday season! 🍾🥂✨
@No Sediment Thank you Agnese..! Merry Christmas 🎄🙏🙌
The power of an unjustified high or low score is mostly mitigated by the large number of reviews. If wine has only 5 reviews, yes, such a score will swing the average wildly. Hundreds or thousands of reviews of a wine though, the anomaly reviews have little effect.
You are right about the influence of age. It would be prudent for Vivino to provide an average score based on each year drunk and reviewed. For example, a 2014 vintage may score low in 2015 but higher in 2021.
This is why I was looking at wines with a lot of scores. And was trying to understand why. It wouldn’t be correct of my side - to look at wines with low number of reviews. 🤷♀️
Thank You for You for Your commitment and cheers! 🥂🍾✨
That distinction exists in the app!
I do use Vivino but you gotta be carefully judging a wine by it’s average Vivino score. Firstly, most wine consumers would never spend more that about €15 on a bottle of wine and if they find one they like, usually a Southern Italian fruitbomb, or some New World recipe wine, they rate if 4+. Whereas wine geeks are typically much more restrictive with ratings (maybe because they know how good wine can be) and they tend to buy rarer more exclusive wines that the average consumer never would try or rate. When I rate a wine 3,5, that’s a good wine I’d gladly drink. But 3,5 average is piss-poor relative to most other wines. Also there are quite a lot of folks that rate the wines based on how much they paid to justify the price.
Hi! 🥂🍾 So You are the one who writes good comments, but rates 3.5?!? 😂😂😂 Found You’ 🙌
I agree about the fact, that some people rate wines based on their price -> if it is expensive it must be good. 🤷♀️ unfortunately to all the wine lovers it is not the case, once I opened ~200Eur worth Burgundy and it was not good. Not corked or anything, just not a great wine. 😥
@@NoSediment haha guilty as charged. Hi 🥂Figure that since you got a 5 point scale, why not make use of if? And ouch, spending big on wine and storing it away for that big occasion is always opening up for heartbreak when you pop the cork. But it goes with the territory, especially with vintage wines :)
Here is my #1 Tip to turn vivino from an okay app to tan amazing app. ONLY compare similar wines. the more similiar the more accurate.
STEP 1 figure out WHAT style of wine you want, what are you pairing it with? Are you drinking with just you and your spouse on the couch, at dinner, is it a gift? How much are you willing to pay. Are you feeling old world or new world?
STEP 2 Compare style vs style. (Same Region/Sub region + Similar proportion of grape varietal(s)) this works best with single varietal wines and works decent with traditional blends (left or right bank Bordeaux, Gsm/rhone etc...)
Let's say I figured out i want to drink a NZ pinot noir and I don't want to pay more than 60$ but I acknowledge decent NZ Pinot (ON average) starts at minimum 35-40$ (in my jurisdiction) so now I'll compare Nz Pinot noir. Ideally I compare region vs region. Malborough vs Malborough. Central Otago vs Central Otago.
Let's say I find 3 Central Otago wines around 50$. A at 45$, B at 50$ and C at 55$.
Wine A has 113 reviews and is 3.8/5
Wine B has 57 reviews and is a 4.1/out of 5. And wine C has 357 reviews and is a 4/5. Now in my opinion wines C has 6 times more reviews than wine B so its rating is more accurate. So Wine C is the safer choice. Wine A is probably the second best choice but the best "budget" choice because it also has more reviews than wine B but it's also at lower price so may present better value. It's (possible that 10-30 of those 57 reviews of wine B are from winery staff, family or friends...)
I just saved myself 5-10$ instead of going with the more expensive 55$ bottle. Although it is possible the 55$ bottle could of have the highest ratings and most ratings in that case I would of to make a different decision pay a bit more and get more quality or pay less and get less which makes it straight forward to be honest)
So wine B is the "safest choice" for this example. and that's what Vivino is about making LESS bad decisions, therefore helping get more value per $ (on average) and improving your overall wine experience long-term. Particularly for those that do NOT have wine certifications Vivino is great these people may only buy 20-50 bottles per year...they've don't have hundreds/thousands of hours of studying or hundreds/thousands of bottles tasted per year as a reference point or develop their palate to a sommelier/judge level.
The 4/5 50$ Central Otago Pinot Noir is NOT the same or close to a 8$ 3.9/5 non-appelation Portugal Red Table wine and is not the same compared to a 30$ "California Only" Pinot Noir either.
For the most part and in general people that buy 10$ wines are not the same people who buy 50$ wines. Most 10$ wine drinkers will never buy a bottle for 50$+at a store in their entire life...maybe they can count on one hand how many times.
Same thing for people who drink 40$+ Central Otago Pinot Noir vs people who drink 30$ or less "Caliornia" Pinot. There is more overlap there but still its not as accurate.
Find out what style of wine you want to drink before hand (watch a few youtube videos, use a wine pairing book, or at least do a quick google search) and THEN compare wines within that specific category againts each other and make a decision.
Ideally the wine has 100 + reviews for that one vintage.
As a bare minimum I only like pick wines with at least 100 reviews "for all vintages" at least and 25 for a single vintage. I then do quick math in my head and take average of both.
Example.
115 reviews for 4/5 for "all vintages".
27 reviews (less than 100) 3.7/5 for the vintage I'm looking at.
So I'd say that wine is 3.85/5. ( I might quickly google how the regional vintage was that year too)
Cellar Tracker is a far better application platform for management and for more honest ratings by experienced consumers. I do not use Vivino for anything.
I will have to check it out. To be honest, I haven’t been very active to get to know various wine apps, so thank You for this. I have used it in past, but not lately though. Cheers! 🍾🥂✨
@@NoSediment And BTW, enjoying your channel. Well presented and excellent production values.
I find that watching more videos of this kind is like listening to various opinions. As of late, however, many have taken exception to Wine Spectator's reviews which I have always believed were biased for obvious reasons. It can still be helpful in allowing me to stay away from those wines which have high ratings. I am less familiar with Vivino so I was interested in your opinion of them. Age does bring wisdom especially with the evolution of wine styles and there is no absolute right or wrong even for a wine. I can comment on the San Felice CC as I recently had it and sold it as well twenty-five years ago. It produced a wonderful wine in one vintage and was totally different in the next, so vintage is more important in places like Italy. What was most notable about this San Felice was just how mediocre it was. If you thought it good then some real revelations await you.
Beyond the traditionalist vs modernist schools some CC from years ago were quite bad but you weren't around then. This wine which was $18.00 reminded me of a decent CC from the sixties or seventies, but nothing more. I am equally unimpressed with heavy, over extracted Port like wines as I am with poorly made CC. As you can see I am of Italian heritage so I feel qualified to comment on the bi-polar nature of my people. When we do things well, we do them very well, when we do things poorly it is a real hash up.
Italy has become infected by galloping Gaja. The fact that you can increase the price does not translate to making a substantially better wine. Italians were guilty in the past of engaging in poor viticultural and vinicultural practices and some of them still do.
Nebbiolo
I like what You are saying, and there is some truth to it. However, I cannot agree about port wines. The ruby style is rich and highly extracted, and I don’t see anything bad about it. 🤷♀️ But You know, this is why wine world is so fascinating and great, there is room for everybody’s taste preferences. ✨🥂 Cheers and have a great holiday season’ 🍾
Interesting!
🤔🤔🤔
Not sure how is the final score calculated but probably it excludes the outliers. With more interest from buyers and more people using the app the outliers will have almost 0 effect on the final score in case those scores are taken in consideration. What wines are overrated from a professional opinion would be more interesting.
Oooo, I like Your suggestion. But… It would also be interesting to see why some wines are overrated by a wine professionals. Is it because the region/grape needs to finally have some recognition or is it because somebody is paying?!? 😅😅😅
I always have a problem with these: 'You're wrong, because you opened it too early!' arguments. If the producer doesn't want their wine to be opened before 5 years of bottle age, then don't push it to the public before that.
I personally like the app because of all the elitism in wine.
The app shows popularity, not objective wine rating. It isn't about what Robert Parker likes. It is about what the majority of users likes and as Vivino has a ton of members all over the world I guess you could say, what most people like.
I think people need to use it for what it is designed for: finding a wine for the majority - not for finding a perfect wine.
My point was not “You are wrong, because You opened it too soon.” 😉 I said it will develop into something better.
And in some ways I agree, I am against wine to be associated only with elite. However, there are cheese that we don’t want to have blue mold on it, and there are cheeses where it is not only accepted, but also completely necessary. And for that one needs knowledge. Similarly it is with wine. Knowledge gives You ability to judge wine for what it is, not for what You want it to be. As I mentioned in my video - there are grapes that are not capable of producing big and bold wines, should we judge it badly only because we don’t like light wines? 🤔😉
@@NoSediment Its a fun video, it sparks discussion! 🍿
Should a wine need aging in order to be good? Cellaring isn’t possible for most.
Should only the highest IQs be able to vote at elections? Or is every opinion valid? 🤔
Wine ratings are highly subjective and I think Vivino really shows that ✌️
No, in my honest opinion, great wine is great when young and when older. At some point, it of course it dies. 🤷♀️ then it is bad wine altogether. 😂
Yeah-I always interpreted Vivino as tracking personal likes/dislikes, no more, no less. If I want professional wine ratings on the quality of a wine, I look up professionals who can speak to the quality of different wines and what's good for the style I'm interested in. If I want to see what's popular, well, that's what apps like Vivino (and Untappd on the beer side) are for. These apps are a great way to track "did I enjoy this one?" and find similar things accordingly.
I wish they score Sauternes and Tokaji Aszu so low that nobody wants them so I can snap them up 😁
Those are great wines, and at least some of them are still available for decent prices! 😅
If the reviews are under 100 i usually don't put much stock if the ratings are low. Plus i follow some soms and pros on there so that helps with the vivino experience
Both points are valid. There are people whose opinion we respect and value, and even better if the palates match. 😉
Cheers! 🍾🥂
I don’t think a 3.9 out of 5 is low. That is above average. Yelp is just as unreliable for ratings. People rate restaurants poorly because they are hard to find, or when there is limited parking.😂
If you know what you like, then you don’t need anyone else to confirm the quality of your taste in wine. Vivino is good to keep track of your cellar and arrange wine meetups!
About the scores - yes, for some below 4.0 was fair score, however, when I did survey on IG and YT, around 30% said they would not choose that wine. So I included wines starting with score of below 4.0!
Yes, I have seen some score low on silly matter, but that is just funny. 😁 And yes, Vivino is very good to keep track of both cellar and wines You had!
Cheers! 🥂🍾
I posted some comments, but they seem to have disappeared. For Vivino to work well you need to develop of circle of like minded wine enthusiasts, geeks and aficionados with a similar palate to yours. I am lucky that people that follow me and that I follow are pretty well informed, experienced or have professional wine training/education.
Scores on Vivino are all over the place, as it's used by 50 million plus users and not everyone of them a MW or MS or have taken a WSET course. So it comes down to having a group or if using the app on a wider scale looking for ones that give detailed information about the wine itself. As some reviews talk about their mood, feeling or where they were or what they were eating. Not very helpful or useful wine information
On the other hand some of the ratings are more "real" or "fair" than some wine critics or publications that score their wines too highly as they have a conflict of interest with the wineries they are reviewing for.
I am really sorry to hear about the comments, You are not the first one to tell mer this. 🥹 I don’t delete comments though, so it might be something in the system.
I love Your take on the more honest opinion on wines if compared to certain wine critics. That is definitely true, however crazy that might sound. 🫣
🥂🍾
Thanks Agnes, I didn't think you deleted my comments, as it has also happened on other RUclips channels.
I think we need both professional wine critics and non-professional opinions to get a balanced view.
I have encountered more unfair HIGH scores on vivino.
Much of the primitivo wines are way overrated. But I understand the residual sugar makes them very appealing. When I started I used vivino as a bit of a guideline, however after some wrong purchases I stopped trusting vivino. Vivino rating currently holds almost no meaning for me. However I do like it for keeping some structure in my cellar. Maybe there are other apps for that, but I already had vivino on the phone.
I agree, I also like that feature, of the cellar. However, I only use it for my loose bottles, and also not all of them. 🤷♀️
3.7 isn’t a low score. And everyone has a different rating criteria. I include price in my consideration not taste alone.
Of course it depends on our preferences as well. Majority of people noted that 3.7 would mean that they would choose a different wine. 🍷
@@NoSediment of course, there is so much to try 😉
Oh so many of the wines are unfairly rated, vivino is a popular wine review app, so a lot of "its good because i like it" is seen. The beauty of vivino is to make it your own catalog, a way to rate and score your wine. Make it public if you want. But forget about other people opinion, even better, dont even look at it...
Your advice is great! I like it, because I can follow the wines I have enjoyed, and creat my own cellar. 🍷
Most people do not know the style of wine. They only know big fruity wines. We need to research more before to rate a wine.
Fruit is fine, I also don’t mind it. My opinion is that sometimes these wines are made so that they seem to offer a lot at first glance, but when You really pay attention to them - they are actually quite hollow and short. 🥲
Old world seems to have fairly low ratings for the most part…
I will check this out, I didn’t notice that. 🤔🤔
19 crimes is rated way too high.
Hahahah, I should buy it and taste it finally! 🙈☺️
sure vivino scores can be unfair or biased but you know who or what else is unfair and biased? wine spectator, Suckling and other wine publications… so I take vivino over all of them. democracy is the way to go in wines too :)
To be completely honest, I really don’t know the inside story about wine critics and publications. But sometimes I do scratch my head about some of the reviews/points. 🤷♀️
I have participated many local wine competitions (as a judge) and we really don’t know the wines and they all are tasted in blind. Sometimes, when we think bottle is simply bad (not the wine necessary) we ask to open another and taste that. So this is my experience of it, however in much smaller scale of course.
Meiomi… 4.1 on average… yeah you can’t trust those ratings
Hahaha! 🥹
White wines tend to get lower ratings than red wines based on value perception alone in Vivino while tonnes of unoaked red wines get this predominantly oak notes that just make me laugh. For the average consumer its just a way of bragging about getting a (in their view) expensive wine drank.
BTW, I did find it interesting, that expensive wines were all above 4.0 score. And not necessarily good wines. I guess, we think (read: hope) that the more expensive wine, the better the quality, which is not necessarily true. And one more thing - what is expensive in one region, and mid-priced in other. 😂😂😂
Thank you for the great videos. I have used vivino for some years. The overall score and the price cant be trusted - the community is not filled with sommes, MWs or other. Find af few people (who writes good reveiws) and friends to follow, keeping track of what you have drunk and whats in your cellar works fine. Its the facebook and instagram of wine.. Regards.
Yes, yes, yes.. it is the facebook and instagram for wine. I guess I didn’t look at it that way. But it is true! Cheers! 🥂🍾
Uhmnnn.....Cellartracker.
Thank You, I will need to come back to it and check it out! 🥂