F-111s in Desert Storm (ep. 183)
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- Опубликовано: 25 янв 2024
- Former #usairforce #pilot Jeff "Guinnbob" Guinn and #wso Kevin "Rim" Allen describe their participation in #desertstorm #flying F-111Es out of Turkey.
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#airforce #usaf #f111 
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F-111 is back in vogue in the media. 😎😎
It’s sad that the A-10 gets so much hype when it’s garbage and the F-111 was much better at the job of destroying armor. I wonder if it didn’t have the expensive variable geometry wings if it’d still be in service in Australia or America. Probably not.
Ha ha, too funny
"aviator's live and die by checklist's." now thats a great quote.
Yep, a lot of meaning in just six words.
*aviators *checklists
amen❤
I have always appreciated the F-111 and especially the ECM variation. I have waited for years to hear these personal stories about desert shield/storm and Libya. Thank you!
I have vivid memories from 50 years ago of seeing Royal Australian Air Force F-111s doing after burner low passes over Richmond RAAF base in Sydney. The mixture of sheer awe, thunder and fear made a great impression. Listening to the accounts of the canyon running sorties were a great thrill. Thank you so much for this amazing interview!
Great interview gents. Brings back many memories of flying the 111 and watching you guys from the crew room during the war. 🫡
Re the dump 'n burn... As the closing ceremony of the 2000 Olympics in Sydney, Australia; included fireworks over the Harbour ended an F-111 came in low-level and went vertical over the Harbour Bridge, full afterburner with fuel dump. Like a rocket over thousands of boats and spectators lining the foreshore. SPECTACULAR! Aussies loved the Aardvark...
Remember the conspiracy Theorists ARE up against rocket scientists. Yeah we landed on the moon come on
The Pig
Jeff did a great job of describing the problem of bombing with an analog system that was coupled with an auto-TFR airplane. I loved the way he outlined the crew workarounds to establishing a stable altitude in order to solve a given bomb range. Really well done. In modern, or digital airplanes, the weapons computers are computing the solution thousands of times per second, and the pickle button is merely a consent to release button--The computer decides when... Not with the F-111 As and Es. Brilliant stuff.
Very cool. Jeff Guinn is the Mr. 111 Love listening to him talk about vark.
Great to hear stories about the E model. I had a great career as an ECM maintainer on the FB, the D and the F model. I was absolutely locked into F111s for my whole career. It was a damn fine looking airplane but plagued by trying to implement too much tech before the tech matured. It was rewarding to see it employed effectively at the end.
Two hours of awesome conversation. Loved it! Thank you! Now I have to go back and re-listen to episode 111.
My only experience around the F-111 was at Lajes Field, Azores, two years from 1983-1984, and having them stop by there rotating to and from Europe and the US. Always great to see them pass through.
A smooth, polished production setting the bar for conducting interviews, I. E.: thorough preparation, keeping the conversation linear while letting the guests do the talking. Most enjoyable. Would like to have heard about the bunker buster tank barrel load out. Someone tell Guinn Republic built the F-105.
I hang my head in shame.
Seriously, I can’t believe I had it so wrong all these years.
Love hearing stories like these. I worked avionics (A-shop) on F-111D's at Cannon AFB and F-111E's at RAF Upper Heyford from '81-'92. Thousands of hours spent in the cockpit on the ground, never in the air. Always wondered what the experience would be like in the air.
So glad you got Jeff Guinn on! He's got some great stories.
Clearly!
Jtf proven force. Loved sitting in a bunker watching the F111s taking off on afterburners. Much respect to all of you.
Knew a guy, Denny Ertler, who piloted an F-111 three ship on the first night of DS. The AAA was so bad that two of the planes’ pilots said, “F this” and aborted but Denny flew the mission as briefed and pulled a Silver Star out of it! I asked him why he continued the mission when his flight mates aborted. What he said was, “I’d never been in a war before, so I didn’t know if the AAA was really all that bad or was just average, so I continued on!”
So sweet 🛫I worked for ATA, American and FED EX on the Indy tarmac. At Norton AFB 86 to 90. Nice to hear views from the air 🕊️
I was at UH for 2 years, 1978 to 1980. These interviews are fantastic. I was a crew chief Yellow A flight (the 79th aircraft). My 'plane' was 001 (Balls One), lost sometime after I left). Wound up at Canon... and decided.... "Mountain Goat?, Canon?, Pease?, or Plattsburgh? for the rest of my career? Bye Bye. More more more like this please.
Back when I was stationed at NAS Oceana in Virginia Beach in the early 90’s, (VF-102 Diamondbacks) we were out working the flight line and a Tomcat (not ours) was taking off. As it climbed and banked, it lit the burners. Well, what a time to not have a camera! The fuel dump was on the whole time, so when the burners kicked in, all that atomized fuel ignited in a most spectacular way. From the aircraft down to the runway was a glorious stream of flame! Must have been a quarter mile long for a few seconds then it shrunk to what we see with the F-111’s dump n burn photos. I have no idea what the exact cause was for the dump, whether accidentally hitting a switch or a mechanical glitch, but all of us AO’s loved it!
Great show as always and these guests were just awesome! One of the fastest 2 hours on YT! Keep it up.
Pretty sure F14s cant dump and burn, but cool story man. Guess you had to be there😉🤣
Isn't the fuel dump in between the jet exhausts on the F-14? I know the engines are further apart than the F-111 but they're still pretty close to the fuel dump port.@@yobgow
@@yobgowI would encourage you to visit an aircraft museum that has an F-14 on display. That big pipe (may be capped as a museum bird) in between the two engines that is right above the tail hook is the fuel dump. The intentional dumping of fuel while in AB certainly was not practiced. The incident I described was an obvious accident of some kind. This take off was a mil power, then as the aircraft pulled up and banked right, it went into AB, which then ignited the atomized fuel behind it. I served as an Aviation Ordnanceman (AO) in an F-14 A squadron in the early 1990’s. Accident’s happen in military aviation. Most incidents are never mentioned in a public manner. Ask anyone who has served in any military aircraft capacity and they will certainly have a few stories to tell.
Want another story, we had a 14 in our squadron over g at a pinch over 10g’s. Yep, that bird can handle those extremes. Watched the HUD tape in the ready room. It was just an ACM training flight out of Oceana. We did have to do an overstress inspection and literally tighten every fastener on the aircraft. They were tough birds and could take what ever the aircrew threw at it.
Jeff Guinn is always great !! thank you.
I worked avionics on the f-111f model. Had some interesting times with that. Let me help you to understand something, the f-111f did have software. It was the padding on the seats for the Pilot and WSO.
There were flight computers, but they were heavily dependent on analog equipment.
Probably the most advanced system was when we just started to test the Pave Tac and by that time they were already deciding that the F model was going closer to any action, and that the a model was going to come up to Mountain Home and be retrofitted into the EF model.
And to the guy that went to red flag in the f4, it's interesting that the F4 is original designation was the f-110 so he did finally graduate to the better airplane LOL
Jeff Guinn is a fantastic story teller.
I was Aircrew Life Support at the 79th in 1989 and 1990 with these gentlemen.
Thank you for your service
Great stuff guys. Stationed at Heyford '84-'87. Been to the 'lick several times. Good assignment.
Fantastic interview guys thanks. Note, RAF Tornado aircraft used JP233, not Durandal during Desert Storm. However, the premise of being predictable during the attack profile and weapon release is accurate. Thanks again for top notch production and guests!
Years ago I saw a list of RAF Tornado losses during GW, from memory most of their losses were during loft attacks with 1000lb bombs rather than JP233.
@@Akm72 First RAF Tornado loss was a MANPADS strike after coming off the target after a failed loft attack. One JP233 dropper was lost after it attacked the target, cause of loss unknown, two loft attackers were shot down by Roland SAM, one Loft attacker was lost by its VT fuzed bombs detonating as soon as they armed and another one was badly damaged. My Brother was one of the BDR team that managed to get that Tornado airworthy and back into combat. It flew another 10 combat sorties before something broke that couldn't be fixed in theatre. The Last lost was a medium level aircraft which was shot down in daylight by a visually guided SA-2/SA-3. Another aircraft was lost due to a control restriction which resulted in the crew banging out.
Thankyou for the post. That seems to confirm my previous comment.@@richardvernon317
When I was ten, in the late 80's, I went to an airshow in Mountain Home and sat in an F-111 with two crew members. Very memorable for me. I wonder if either of these guys might have been there.
Thank you guys for your service
This was one of my favourite episodes, a couple of real characters.
I remember when; the then new Spark Varc blacked out most of southern Washington, Oregon, and Northern California. At the time I was living in Chico California, one evening everything got quiet and dark, later found out the flyboys were flying and pushing buttons! Was working at McClellan, home of all things F-111. Every Vark stick shaker brought their beloved airframe to us for a nuclear X-ray. McClellan was the home of a dry pile nuke reactor that powered the X-ray machine that helped us find assorted VERY expensive cracks in the F-111 airframe!
Sweet to see Jeff Guinn turn up on FPP Jello, that dude is a killer podcast guest - I've re-listened to his multiple appearances chatting with Mike on Aircrew Interview multiple times.
Btw, loved the episode! Great guests and insightful details during the conversation. As an Aussie, I really miss the dump and burn
well the cows do not !!
I now know why I love the Warthog A-10, & Apache as CAS as a ground pounder.
Thank you gentlemen . Good listen !
You're welcome--we had fun!
@@FighterPilotPodcast Late to the party but that was a good one. Thanks for putting it together!
I had to smile about the guys' answers to what altitude they flew at in Desert Storm combat ops. Their answers make perfect sense, of course - especially at night in hilly or mountainous terrain. But I'm also smiling at the memory of hitting 600kts at 50 feet off the deck on a training sortie out of Mtn Home over the desert. (Not sanctioned, but great fun!)
“Well hit 3-wood in a tile shower”. Lol
Perfect description for about 3 guys I know when the S hits the fan
This was one of the best FPP episodes. Good background on the aircraft and it's mission.
My first day with 20th tfw at RAF Upper Heyford I was walking to new duty station gawking at all other visible personnel in MOP gear masks on.
Just then a fast mover heading for the flightline, flew so low over me i felt the warmth of exhaust and almost blown off my feet.
New on base, I was not informed of the exercise beforehand. "Crazy Brit pilots" kept running through my mind.
I moved with the F111Fs from Mountain Home to Lakenheath in 77 and our first exercise after getting there the locals were calling the base asking if we were going to war , kinda funny looking back .
I had the pleasure of working for the contractor that overhauled the burners of the Tf30-P100 in the F111F. Was a great experience!!
The part about the Durandal employment was extremely insightful. Goes to show that there's a world of difference between Sims and the real world.
Great interview, enjoying the video interview format with live stream. Nice to have both perspectives (pilot/wso) and stories. The F111 sounds like a handful to fly.
One of the unfortunate things about the F111 was that none of the variants were built with GE F110 engines. Had those engines been retrofitted, the low level high-speed runs at 600+ kts would have been entirely on mil power. I have read in a wiki that there was a variant proposed with the same engine that the B1 used. The F110 was a much better, similar size engine as the TF-30 engines that were used in both the F14A and all the F111 variants. Bummer... but I doubt those new motors would have made the Pig any easier to fly.
I agree. My comment in the podcast was I wished they modified with stealth skin and modern avionics.
That was extremely neat Thank You!
I wonder if these two guys were in the flight of 3 or 4 that buzzed Stork Barracks Illesheim, Germany sometime 88'. One of the coolest things I've ever seen.
Best episode by far Jello, good on you.
From the UK
🙏
I like the file footage. Great episode and especially the F-111, so much information needs imparted off this airframe.
this was great, thanks for the long format
Great vid! Cool plane and systems. Interesting Desert Storm recollections! Saludos!
I still think its funny that the americans outlawed the dump and burn.
It was an airshow staple here in australia. They even used it during the olympics in 2000.
That's right! To take away the torch, if memory serves...
I was at RAF Upper Heyford from '80 to 83'. Miss the F111
great episode
I thank the three of you.
You’re welcome
Wonderful Podcast👍
Great interview. Learned allot. Thank you for sharing.
You're welcome, thanks for watching. 👍
I love it. Growing up in NM use to see F-111s all the time. I miss seeing them
Great interview! I've seen a few with Jeff and he's got great stories and videos
Excellent interview, very well paced by Jell-O, doing a great job of listening and taking time to dig out lots of excellent facts, stories and insights. (And I say that as a former F-111 guy, going through RTU in '82 at Mtn Home.) So much of this I still remember (e.g. one hard turn was all you could get from an F-111), and plenty of fresh insights (the altitude cal strategies the guys employed in Desert Storm).
Thanks, Matthew 😎
Thanks to everyone for a excellent video! Jeff’s memory of events and knowledge are amazing. My memory of of the F111 is backpacking in The Pecos Wilderness New Mexico summer of 94. Eating lunch on the side of a mountain two F111s flew below us in the valley. An interesting perspective, looking down on two flying planes!
The explanation pop ups are helpful!
Thanks, we spend a bit of time on those.
Excellent!!
Ah, mentioned Creech. Met that General in 81 in Austin at Bergstom AFB while at the 12th TIS.. extremely impressive man.. small of stature but filled the room when he visited my work center..
Great episode!!!
Excellent interview
Thanks 😊
One of the best ones yet❤❤
Really enjoyed this. Thank u
You’re welcome, thanks for watching
Loved listening to this. My father was on the ground in 91 (UK forces). I’m always amazed by his stories, especially how low-tech it actually was, especially for navigation - his role had him issued an “intruder pass” (interesting bit of paper) and rolling all over the front in a requisitioned Toyota Land Cruiser (originally used an Army Land Rover until it blew). He had to navigate the Saudi desert which in parts was featureless, flat and hard as concrete, using bearings and stars. They’d get to the general area they were supposed to be, would jump out of the vehicle, lay on the ground and look at the horizon looking for tents / scrim netting which otherwise invisible in the dark unless you could get the sky to silhouette them.
At that stage the UK forces didn’t have enough personal weapons for every deployed soldier, so despite operating on and around the front in a soft skinned vehicle, he was only issued a 9mm pistol (he was a LE Captain) and a couple of soldiers in his team had assault rifles (I’ve never asked which ones, but possibly SA80 or SMG, but very possibly SLR - but SLR seems less likely in 91). So I imagine their plan for contact was “don’t get into a contact” 😂
They spent months collecting soldiers who’d been stationed at ammunition/fuel/rations dumps, who due to the speed of the ground war, were essentially left in the middle of nowhere, with no comms, and often no record of if they’d been left or not (no computers) and those soldiers were typically reservists (Territorial Army). The work they did was used to fundamentally change how the Reservists and Regulars integrated as to that point they operated very separately.
Thankfully he never got into a fight. The only round shot from his pistol was to euthanise a camel which had fallen into a buried skip (for trash) and broken its leg. But he saw amazing things, even the strike site of a scud… which had hit near a scrapyard behind a fuel station. He said it was hard to tell exactly where it had hit, as the scrapyard was such a mess (bit of war tourism thanks to the intruder pass which let them pass US checkpoints and into their areas of operation!)
My Skipper, “Rocky” Morrison would refer to certain individuals in our squadron as “a well hit Titleist in a shower stall”
Cracked me the F Up!
Watching Jello’s face… Priceless!
I had to watch it multiple times times because I was laughing so hard it made me me cry!
Time: 58:20-58:37!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I most certainly did enjoy it, thanks Jell-O!
Enjoyed your show good guys good stories
That was a fun discussion.
Thanks!
Talking about ejections here in New Zealand at RNZAF base Ohakea a RAAF F111 had a problem on takeoff (engine fire?), went off the end but ejected safely. Great episode, sounds like a formidable aeroplane to fly well.
Think that was the one that had water ingestion from the nose wheel tyre design, redesigned the profile after that, the escape capsule is on display at RAAF Amberley Heritage centre
I flew with that pilot, Mark, on a Qantas B747-400.
That was so interesting, great job
Thank you, John!
It was a so beautiful aircraft !
I flipped this on to watch a few minutes before hitting the gym… 1:40 later, I’m still here! 😛
Thanks, and sorry!
Great interview.
Thank you, Wayne. 😀
Great episode!
🙏
Back in the early 80's as a young fella I was fishing with friends on Moreton Island Queensland Australia on a Saturday night. We saw some lights in the sky which appeared to grow larger which puzzled us. There was no sound but these lights were comming towards us & our camp fire. When the F111 passed over at low level still with no sound until it passed, God almighty there was some mud dropped which no-one would admit too.😂
🤣
Great interview, always found the F-111 and its mission profile to be fascinating. Additionally, I’ve always been rather curious about the E variant’s service in DS. Since they weren’t LGB capable like the F variant they haven’t seemed to have quite gained as much attention as the F.
Very true statement. At end of DS, we paired with the AMPd E model and dropped LGB with buddy lazing.
Good video. Very interesting. I remember being at Red Flag mid 70s F111 were there with one or both engines out. Did they ever correct the engine problems.
Great interview. I had no idea the 111 was such an animal to fly.
Great podcast.
Small correction though, the RAF Tornado employed JP233 and for the most part the crews did not fly directly down the runway. They never had Durandel, it was never in the RAF's ORBAT. Six were shot down throughout the war, with at least two of those being at medium level.
Wasn't the F105 built by Republic? Anyway, great episode guys!
Yes, Republic. Presumably he misspoke.
Nope. Misrememberized.
(Correction: I typed badly. You are correct, I misrememberized.)
Tornados in DS were not using Durandal. They were using JP233 for runway attacks.
Mis-speak
@@FighterPilotPodcast Yes, it's been a while so understandable, just wanted to correct the record. I used to fly the F model at Lakenheath, by the way.
Oh so ncie! This will be exciting!
Hope you enjoyed it. 😎
RAF used JP233 for airfiels attack. Still required flying along runway center line.
Gotcha.
You are correct. The ‘Varks had Durandel. I assumed that’s what the RAF carrying.
Should have had the Hades bomb, like Doug Masters had.@@heyskipper6363
My understanding is that the RAF preferred to cut runways or taxiways by crossing them at about 45 degrees rather than flying down them. This made it more difficult for the defenders to position their LLAD weapons and it reduced the probability of missing the runway entirely.
I was a crew chief on f 111d at cannon afb. It left me with a true hatred of pilots and officers in general.
Why?
"Torching" was allowed in the USAF only in an emergency situation. So it got down to what you considered to be an "emergency." Of course, the Aussies had no such restriction!
TIGER, TIGER…!
I live in central pa, at the edge of the great divide. The air force had a practice ground attack target about 50 miles east of where i lived. They flew nape of the earth all the time through here in the early 1970s.
I was sitting on a hilltop in a red oak grove squirrel hunting one day.
Nice & quiet, serene, sitting there on the ground leaning against a tree on top of the highest hill around. Just beautiful.
All a sudden the dried leaves started floating up in the air. About the time im wondering WTF and stood up, the sound hit and i fell back down. i seen the ass of a jet several hundred yards away dissapearing.
One of these crazy bastards flew over me at tree top level and just absolutely dusted my ass. The whole woods was shaking. 😂
Glad i was young with a strong heart. 😂 as a kids afterwards, i was like, well that was cool as hell. 😝
About 1995, while coming home from work on interstate 80, i see a dot heading my way on a long straight stretch while crossing the great divide. Right when it got to me, they dipped the nose right at me.
An A10 used me for a mock gun run. Know that funny feeling in your guts on a roller coaster as a kid?
Im telling you, looking at the nose of an A10 coming right at you, And already knowing what that bird is capable of when its angry, caused an instant pucker factor of 10+. 🤮.
Im a veteran US Army tanker, and it was Time to go change my shorts. 😂
Great show guys. I loved it. 👍
🇺🇸 SALUTE 🇺🇸
Hah, great stories! Thankfully the A-10 is on YOUR side!
@@FighterPilotPodcast yes sir.
No kidding.
That A10 pilot is prolly still laughing. 🤣
to wingman, " did you see the look on that guys face in the pick up truck ? 😳 " 🤣
You fly boys had all the fun. 😉
My father was a backhand in the RAAF and he loved working on the F111's it was his favourite aircraft. He passed away 6 months before their retirement from the RAAF.
Sorry to hear it but sounds like he led a full life, at least in this regard.
Super
Vince, Thank you for a VERY Interesting discussion of the tactics and capabilities of the "Vark." What I found most surprising was that the "E" model's all-wx attack capability sounds like it was significantly less impressive than the A-6A, let alone the A-6E ! The A6A, with a good crew, could consistently deliver a "lay down" stick of 18 Mk-82s inside a 150' CEP - and that was BEFORE we had the benefit of LGB weapons. Our run-in altitudes at night in benign terrain were commonly 100' AGL or below, hand-flown using the Mk1-Mod0 eyeball and large Radar Altimeter. I think you could put together a great discussion with these two guys and a pilot and B/N from one of the VN-era A-6 squadrons. (The Intruder Reunion is in SAN in April, btw)
Would be a colorful exchange no doubt!
B-52's worked in Turkey in the 50's when new. One problem they ran into was base security as several children were stolen off base. I think Biggs then sent to Guam and England. In that order and Dad left for ABM design at White Sands about that time. We bugged out to the South Pacific in 63.
Great video but I have a feeling the mini-computer database was for World Geodetic System, not Wideband Global SATCOM.
Producer snuck that one past
One thing to keep in mind when bashing McNamara about his insistence on the Air Force and Navy procuring one fighter for both services -- the TFX -- is that the USAF and Navy were _already_ using one aircraft for both services -- the F-4 Phantom, arguably the first really multirole jet fighter. Soon thereafter they used one light attack aircraft -- the A-7. Both services ended up using one close support aircraft -- the A-1 Skyraider. The AF, Navy and the Coast Guard all used the S-61/HH-3 helicopter. One platform for both services was not a lunatic idea in itself. McNamara was not a lunatic.
Arguably, the problem with the TFX project was the Air Force got to the table first, dominating the early design parameters, with no compromise for the Navy's requirements. The TFX -- the F-111 -- did end up doing the primary AF mission well -- that of a medium range penetrating strategic and tactical all weather strike fighter. The Navy version however turned out to be an unmitigated failure.
From what I have read, the Air Force never wanted the F-4 or the A-7 and the extra heavy landing gear for ship landings Air Force never did.
@@FighterPilotPodcast I can't quote the source document, but I believe the F-4C/D/E and A-7D did not meet USN standards for landing FPS.
I’m an AMMO troop and supported the F-111 at RAF Lakenheath and Upper Heyford.
#respect
After working on F-111As in the late sixties at nellis and loving the experience of being apart of this amazing aircraft and always fantasizing of what it would be like to see this aircraft through The eyes of the people that actually operated them was a dream come true for me. How can I obtain the shirt with the three wing positions? Always been very proud when sharing my experiences with this amazing bird. Thanks for the podcast
I suppose your best bet is to look up the F-111 association and see if the shirts are available for sale.
Woah! Looks like Harrison Ford flew F-111s 👍
🤪
Edwards AFB in the 80s . An F111 blew tires on takeoff. They decided to fly around the base a couple hours to burn off fuel. No dump and burn. By the time they were ready to land it was after sunset. The landing was impressive at night with a giant rootertail shower of sparks, brake stack ground flat and put a groove in the runway. Emergency trucks lathered it with foam. Crew safely ground egress. No fire.
Nice.
It’s funny to listen to them talk about the quirks of that TFR, because having flown it on other platforms we put it on we made no real improvements to it in 40 years.
I did time at Incirlik in 2000, some good times on that base. The day we returned to the states, landed in Baltimore and found out the U.S.S. Cole was bombed. My buddy who relieved me in Turkey was locked down due to that incident, did not have the freedoms I had there.
Bummer, all around.
I did hear rumours of RAAF going make their F111 stealth especially inlets n tail replace with raven version but went F18G option. Love dump n burn at Australian airshow.