I always "return" to soto zen practice after trying different techniques..the simplicity of zazen is almost magical for me or let's say it does the most for me - like a snow globe slowly clearing up
Brad, this has been very refreshing to listen to! To put it in even simpler words: one time I was watching a video of this Tibetan Rinpoche recollecting an anecdote where he had been invited to join the audience of a seminar by some Zen monk about Zen Buddhism. The Rinpoche politely declined the invitation because, he explained, he had already dug his own well and found water there, so he just needed to drink it and not going around digging other wells to find more water. As you pointed out in your video, in this attitude there's no trace of offense, contempt or arrogance - as a matter of fact, I don't think it's something one should be ashamed of. But you're right, nowadays it's highly unpopular to say you want to stick to your own thing and that makes it so much easier to become muddled about which way to go. Grazie!
The song " I want you". Water comes in all kind of formes. Snow, ice, sleet, hail, steem, tea, and cofe, salt, and fresh water. And yet it's all water.
Let me talk to you about "Zen Buddhism;" but then, I repeat myself. Great stuff Brad, so glad you're there. I've learned so much from you over the years. You and I are almost exactly the same age, and as far as "institutionalized anything" anymore, I think the world has gone bonkers. I'm quite the hermit these days! Loved the intro!!! That song is now sure to be an earworm all day, and I'm not complaining. Stay well.
Awareness of present experience is the whole of the way - it encompasses all of the 8 folds of the path. Right view, or right conduct, for example, does not mean that there is some particular view that we should be holding, or some particular thing we should be doing - it just means freedom from delusion and wrong doing via mindfulness. There is no other way - other stuff : praying, transe, chanting, visualisation etc is just other stuff, usually to do with working within the framework of self and its desire for security & progress
Well said!! The same path is not for everyone, but find your path and follow it. I also don't want to preach or evangelize, so I understand exactly how you feel
THE LAZY WATER BUFFALO He never walks the farm paths, neither west nor east; For years he’s feared a yoke might touch his shoulders. Abandoning sweet, tender grass Within the pasture, By green willows along the bank he feeds on wind and mist. Wumen Huikai (think Wumenguan) Clouds Thick, Whereabouts Unknown (Translations from the Asian Classics) (p. 136). Columbia University Press. Kindle Edition.
i am just beginning to re-investigate zen and i am having a hard time with the western commentary on it. i like your videos and you are a smart guy and a good interpreter of old texts. however, i was under the impression that choosing this or that as greater or lesser is antithetical to the whole thing. i thought the whole thing was that its all exactly the same. i also found a lot of differentiation and categorization happening in the zen subreddit r/zen. i don’t really know anything of what i am talking about. and i am kind of glad i don’t know anything.
Thanks for your informative videos. I'm relatively new to Buddhism and have gravitated toward Zen practice. In my readings, great importance appears to be given to finding and practicing with a teacher. Would you advise people living near some of these larger Zen centers to look elsewhere for training?
Meditation is a practice that should be practiced with the understanding of the nature of reality. And the reality of nature is explained in Abhidhamma texts which contain 42000 teachings from the 84000 teachings in early Buddhism.
Chan Master Dahui Zonggao (1089-10 August 1163 ce) was a vigorous critic of what he called the "heretical Chan of silent illumination" (mozhao xie Chan) of the Caodong school (Wade-Giles: Ts'ao-tung; Japanese: Sōtō). (see wiki) Not only that, Chan Master Dahui Zonggao, died 1163, collected the Treasury of the Eye of True Teaching, (Chinese Zhengfayanzang, Japanese Shobogenzo,) which existed if and when Dogen, (born 26 January 1200, died 22 September 1253) visited China, almost a century later). Treasury of the Eye of True Teaching: Classic Stories, Discourses, and Poems of the Chan Tradition Paperback - October 11, 2022 by Dahui (Author), Thomas Cleary (Translator) Chan Master Dahui Zonggao was heir to Grand Chan Master Yuanwu, of Blue Cliff Record fame!
Awesome intro. I enjoyed it. Great stuff. Pretty sure it’s “raising their hackles.” What are hackles anyway? Anyway, building on Dogen… Interesting. Some teacher that I know get bent out of shape if anyone tries to do an addendum, whatever, etc. It’s weird. Now, where did I leave my pants? Viva Ziggy!
The oldest Buddhist sutras, the ones supposedly dating from Buddha's time, are full of meditation instructions. The later Mahayana sutras have less of that.
@@HardcoreZen I suppose there were quite a lot of meditation-manuals circulating in old times - and maybe still are, but research may not be easy, especially for foreigners. However, they were often "for internal use only," according to each "house-style" or contenting clans etc. (as often shown in Gongfu-movies), and rather often a syncretistic mixture out of, mainly, contents of the "big three teachings" (Konfucianism, Daoism, Buddhism).
If you can find the way to explain where you think the Western Soto Zen folks have gone off track without stirring up stuff you don't feel like stirring up, I'd like to hear it. In depth or just a toss-off comment. Thanks if you do. Guessing would probably lead me astray.
"What Dogen is saying here is that Zazen IS Buddhism!" Hakuin of the Rinzai sect was no different in this regard. He claimed that Buddhism has many aspects but Zazen is the well-spring or source of all the others. I disagree on this point...because many other traditions other than Buddhism practice sitting meditation. Buddhism is defined only by its unique doctrine...not its practices.
@@benhorner8430 "What is the difference between a practice and a doctrine for you?" A practice is usually just a verb...running, climbing, jumping, siting still...these are all just verbs. A doctrine is an idea or set of ideas. Buddha's original teaching contains both....but its the ideas that set it apart from other traditions.
Ok now I’m getting into the nitpicky commenting: what’s up with the half assed self censor ship - either be polite/ careful or be blunt, but wiggling around “religion with M” or “i don’t say Zen Buddhism (that doesn’t exist) is the best - but that’s what I think” lol
Yes. Christianity was suppressed in Japan. But it wasn't suppressed by the Buddhists for religious reasons. In fact, I am not sure the Buddhists were very much involved (although I'll admit I'm pretty vague on the history of this). I guess you could make the argument that it was suppressed by Shinto-ists (if there is such a word). But Shinto isn't really a religion the way Western religions are religions. In any case, I don't think the suppression of Christianity was as much about religion as the Crusades were. It was more about ridding Japan of foreign influence at a time when Japan was trying to maintain an isolationist policy. But I will accept that this is an example of religious persecution in Asia in the past.
@@HardcoreZen From a quick Google: “The Grand Inquisitor Inoue Chikugo No Kami Masashige, Spin Doctor of the Tokugawa Bakufu” - 2003 - Leonard Blussé: University of Leiden “George Elison has described in detail how the Ometsuke used rather unique methods to force the captured priests to apostatisize and to turn them into Buddhists. In all cases in which these Catholic priests and their followers did not give up the Christian religion, Chikugo no kami ordered to torture them to death. But he preferred an apostasized Christian to a dead Christian.”
@@JimTempleman You don't know history. How many Crusades were there? How many children died in the Children's Crusade? A period of Christian persecution in Japan doesn't compare to the brutality of the Catholic Church. Then other Christian denominations made sure to kill anyone who was a heretic. What about Witch burning? Ever read the history of England? I went to a school named St. Edmund of Canterbury. As an adult I found out he was renowned for burning heretics.
@@ldydyk I am well aware of the history that you refer to. I am not trying to weigh the ‘sins’ of one religion against those of another. And does it really matter if a war is based on religious differences or simply the greed of expansionism? Do you really view historical Japan as a pacifist nation? - The Tale of the Heike (compiled prior to 1330) translated by Helen Craig McCullough: “The sound of the Gion Shoja temple bells echo in the impermanence of all things; the color of the sala flowers reveals the truth that to flourish is to fall. The proud do not endure, like a passing dream on a night in spring; the mighty fall at last, to be no more than dust before the wind.” There is a certain irony that today is December 7th, the day they made their “Pacific intentions” very clear. The point I am making is that all religions and all nations have ‘feet of clay’ (a weakness or character flaw) when functioning as a political entity. Individuals may attain a high level of purity (in the Buddhist sense), but that rarely drives the action of the collective. The only exceptions, I can think of is that of Tibet in the 20th century, whose leaders were true to their religion, and maybe the Cathars in Southern France in the 13th century. Sadly, such groups end up having to sacrifice a great deal to hold up their ideals.
I am 100% with Dogen and Nishijima Roshi and you on this! Buddhism is what Buddha taught and practiced … as a “genius” human who worked to find truth! Other forms of Buddhism obviously exist and that’s fine, but they’re derivatives. Now, my question is … why doesn’t Zen (or the “real Buddhism”) then rely more on the early texts/suttas? I assume because they are not Mahayana but Theravadan? Pardon any ignorance. I know this gets complicated. 😊
I wanna say because of the Perfection of wisdom (prajnaparamita) that happened - the litterary, cultural and philosophical movement that grew out of early buddhist thought and changed it. A bit like why our way of thinking in Europe (including Christian thought) changed during the renaissance. (although many people still cling to the old ways - see flat earthers, anti-vaxxers etc)
The Early Buddhist Texts are part of the Mahayana Tripitaka (canon), in the form of the Agamas, the Chinese equivalent of the Nikayas of the Sutta Pitaka of the Pali Canon. Nowadays many western Mahayana Buddhists just use the Pali Nikayas because English translations of the Agamas are hard to come by and they're more or less the same as the Nikayas anyway. One of the challenges of Mahayana Buddhism from a textual perspective is just that there are so many sutras! It would essentially take a lifetime to read and have a basic understanding of them all. You could spend a lifetime reading and studying the Flower Garland Sutra alone.
dogens account of early "zen" while "narrative" does accord to large degree with eric green's research ruclips.net/video/M8asW1VXalE/видео.html, zen originated as a meditation oriented variant of the buddhist sect and the lines between buddhism and zen were likely very blurred, but clearly rujing was boots and all "meditation" rujing i prefer to dogen as more direct and honest, there's a vein of dishonesty that runs through dogen that is a little difficult to stomach which he probably felt was necessary to build a religion
I'd say I agree but it also isn't that simple, there are subtle differences. None of them really matter until you start trying to translate Sanskrit and Pali into Chinese, Thai, Burmese, then Japanese, then English... the idra is to grasp the idea, not the words, but there are also practical differences which Dogen explains very well elsewhere
I always "return" to soto zen practice after trying different techniques..the simplicity of zazen is almost magical for me or let's say it does the most for me - like a snow globe slowly clearing up
Brad, this has been very refreshing to listen to! To put it in even simpler words: one time I was watching a video of this Tibetan Rinpoche recollecting an anecdote where he had been invited to join the audience of a seminar by some Zen monk about Zen Buddhism.
The Rinpoche politely declined the invitation because, he explained, he had already dug his own well and found water there, so he just needed to drink it and not going around digging other wells to find more water.
As you pointed out in your video, in this attitude there's no trace of offense, contempt or arrogance - as a matter of fact, I don't think it's something one should be ashamed of. But you're right, nowadays it's highly unpopular to say you want to stick to your own thing and that makes it so much easier to become muddled about which way to go.
Grazie!
Loved the guitar work.
The song " I want you". Water comes in all kind of formes. Snow, ice, sleet, hail, steem, tea, and cofe, salt, and fresh water. And yet it's all water.
Another great video.
Best intro song EVER
Thanks!
Great intro!
Let me talk to you about "Zen Buddhism;" but then, I repeat myself.
Great stuff Brad, so glad you're there. I've learned so much from you over the years. You and I are almost exactly the same age, and as far as "institutionalized anything" anymore, I think the world has gone bonkers. I'm quite the hermit these days!
Loved the intro!!! That song is now sure to be an earworm all day, and I'm not complaining.
Stay well.
Awareness of present experience is the whole of the way - it encompasses all of the 8 folds of the path.
Right view, or right conduct, for example, does not mean that there is some particular view that we should be holding, or some particular thing we should be doing - it just means freedom from delusion and wrong doing via mindfulness.
There is no other way - other stuff : praying, transe, chanting, visualisation etc is just other stuff, usually to do with working within the framework of self and its desire for security & progress
Well said!! The same path is not for everyone, but find your path and follow it. I also don't want to preach or evangelize, so I understand exactly how you feel
I recall reading this same sort of thing in Suzuki Roshi's, 'Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind". Buddhism is just Buddhism.
Excellent intro!
As the Zen Masters said”Are you sure?”
SHE’S SO HEAVY
THE LAZY WATER BUFFALO
He never walks the farm paths,
neither west nor east;
For years he’s feared a yoke might touch his shoulders.
Abandoning sweet, tender grass
Within the pasture,
By green willows along the bank
he feeds on wind and mist.
Wumen Huikai (think Wumenguan)
Clouds Thick, Whereabouts Unknown (Translations from the Asian Classics) (p. 136). Columbia University Press. Kindle Edition.
I recently began attending the Houston Zen Center. What's 'around the bend' about it?
No attainment, no non-attainment, No suffering, origin, cessation, or path.
Thank you! Have a great day Brad!
Check out the Zen master Zensho .W Kopp .He's an Inka Soto Zen master and holding hands with Advaita .
That was a good one. Thank you.
My favorite track on Abbey Road!
Buddhism is the clay, and Zazen is the cup made of that clay.
i am just beginning to re-investigate zen and i am having a hard time with the western commentary on it. i like your videos and you are a smart guy and a good interpreter of old texts. however, i was under the impression that choosing this or that as greater or lesser is antithetical to the whole thing. i thought the whole thing was that its all exactly the same. i also found a lot of differentiation and categorization happening in the zen subreddit r/zen. i don’t really know anything of what i am talking about. and i am kind of glad i don’t know anything.
Oooh spicy title. Already here for it.
You are so sound Brad! 👏👍😊
Thanks for your informative videos. I'm relatively new to Buddhism and have gravitated toward Zen practice. In my readings, great importance appears to be given to finding and practicing with a teacher. Would you advise people living near some of these larger Zen centers to look elsewhere for training?
To be honest, the only form of Buddhism is Sila-Samadhi-Prajna (the threefold practice or The Three Practices mentioned by Dogen).
Raising their rankles
Meditation is a practice that should be practiced with the understanding of the nature of reality. And the reality of nature is explained in Abhidhamma texts which contain 42000 teachings from the 84000 teachings in early Buddhism.
The idea that you can play the music, but you can't say the name of the song is pretty Hardcore Zen!
Chan Master Dahui Zonggao (1089-10 August 1163 ce) was a vigorous critic of what he called the "heretical Chan of silent illumination" (mozhao xie Chan) of the Caodong school (Wade-Giles: Ts'ao-tung; Japanese: Sōtō). (see wiki)
Not only that, Chan Master Dahui Zonggao, died 1163, collected the Treasury of the Eye of True Teaching, (Chinese Zhengfayanzang, Japanese Shobogenzo,) which existed if and when Dogen, (born 26 January 1200, died 22 September 1253) visited China, almost a century later).
Treasury of the Eye of True Teaching: Classic Stories, Discourses, and Poems of the Chan Tradition Paperback - October 11, 2022
by Dahui (Author), Thomas Cleary (Translator)
Chan Master Dahui Zonggao was heir to Grand Chan Master Yuanwu, of Blue Cliff Record fame!
Awesome intro. I enjoyed it. Great stuff. Pretty sure it’s “raising their hackles.” What are hackles anyway? Anyway, building on Dogen… Interesting. Some teacher that I know get bent out of shape if anyone tries to do an addendum, whatever, etc. It’s weird. Now, where did I leave my pants? Viva Ziggy!
Nice!
Why aren't the sutras full of meditation instruction?
The oldest Buddhist sutras, the ones supposedly dating from Buddha's time, are full of meditation instructions. The later Mahayana sutras have less of that.
@@HardcoreZen I suppose there were quite a lot of meditation-manuals circulating in old times - and maybe still are, but research may not be easy, especially for foreigners. However, they were often "for internal use only," according to each "house-style" or contenting clans etc. (as often shown in Gongfu-movies), and rather often a syncretistic mixture out of, mainly, contents of the "big three teachings" (Konfucianism, Daoism, Buddhism).
Shobogenzo is not full of zazen instruction, either. That doesn't mean that zazen is not in the center of Buddhist practice according to Dogen.
just let those religious buddhists do their thing. your thing isn’t better, it’s just different. just an uneducated outsider’s perspective.
If you can find the way to explain where you think the Western Soto Zen folks have gone off track without stirring up stuff you don't feel like stirring up, I'd like to hear it. In depth or just a toss-off comment. Thanks if you do. Guessing would probably lead me astray.
If you listen to some of Brad’s other videos going back a few years, he gives clues. 😊
"What Dogen is saying here is that Zazen IS Buddhism!"
Hakuin of the Rinzai sect was no different in this regard.
He claimed that Buddhism has many aspects but Zazen is the well-spring or source of all the others.
I disagree on this point...because many other traditions other than Buddhism practice sitting meditation.
Buddhism is defined only by its unique doctrine...not its practices.
Would you consider "do zazen" (or "do practice X") as a doctrine?
Maybe I mean: What is the difference between a practice and a doctrine for you?
@@benhorner8430 "What is the difference between a practice and a doctrine for you?"
A practice is usually just a verb...running, climbing, jumping, siting still...these are all just verbs.
A doctrine is an idea or set of ideas.
Buddha's original teaching contains both....but its the ideas that set it apart from other traditions.
"Cult" is related to cultivation.
From Latin "Occultari" hidden. It means hidden teachings.
I think you missed the more interesting part of the question can (zen) Buddhism save the world - and if so when? ;)
Ok now I’m getting into the nitpicky commenting: what’s up with the half assed self censor ship - either be polite/ careful or be blunt, but wiggling around “religion with M” or “i don’t say Zen Buddhism (that doesn’t exist) is the best - but that’s what I think” lol
Subscribed anyways ☺️
that M religion has behaved very much like the crusaders all over Asia!
Are you the Judean People’s Front?
So Christianity was never suppressed in Japan?
Ever watch Scorsese’s movie called 'Silence"?
Buddhism was also violently suppressed in China...many times.
Yes. Christianity was suppressed in Japan. But it wasn't suppressed by the Buddhists for religious reasons. In fact, I am not sure the Buddhists were very much involved (although I'll admit I'm pretty vague on the history of this). I guess you could make the argument that it was suppressed by Shinto-ists (if there is such a word). But Shinto isn't really a religion the way Western religions are religions. In any case, I don't think the suppression of Christianity was as much about religion as the Crusades were. It was more about ridding Japan of foreign influence at a time when Japan was trying to maintain an isolationist policy. But I will accept that this is an example of religious persecution in Asia in the past.
@@HardcoreZen From a quick Google: “The Grand Inquisitor Inoue Chikugo No Kami Masashige, Spin Doctor of the Tokugawa Bakufu” - 2003 - Leonard Blussé: University of Leiden
“George Elison has described in detail how the Ometsuke used rather unique methods to force the captured priests to apostatisize and to turn them into Buddhists. In all cases in which these Catholic priests and their followers did not give up the Christian religion, Chikugo no kami ordered to torture them to death. But he preferred an apostasized Christian to a dead Christian.”
@@JimTempleman You don't know history. How many Crusades were there? How many children died in the Children's Crusade? A period of Christian persecution in Japan doesn't compare to the brutality of the Catholic Church. Then other Christian denominations made sure to kill anyone who was a heretic. What about Witch burning? Ever read the history of England? I went to a school named St. Edmund of Canterbury. As an adult I found out he was renowned for burning heretics.
@@ldydyk I am well aware of the history that you refer to. I am not trying to weigh the ‘sins’ of one religion against those of another. And does it really matter if a war is based on religious differences or simply the greed of expansionism? Do you really view historical Japan as a pacifist nation?
- The Tale of the Heike (compiled prior to 1330) translated by Helen Craig McCullough:
“The sound of the Gion Shoja temple bells echo in the impermanence of all
things; the color of the sala flowers reveals the truth that to flourish is to
fall. The proud do not endure, like a passing dream on a night in spring;
the mighty fall at last, to be no more than dust before the wind.”
There is a certain irony that today is December 7th, the day they made their “Pacific intentions” very clear.
The point I am making is that all religions and all nations have ‘feet of clay’ (a weakness or character flaw) when functioning as a political entity. Individuals may attain a high level of purity (in the Buddhist sense), but that rarely drives the action of the collective.
The only exceptions, I can think of is that of Tibet in the 20th century, whose leaders were true to their religion, and maybe the Cathars in Southern France in the 13th century. Sadly, such groups end up having to sacrifice a great deal to hold up their ideals.
'za zen
The Japan
I am 100% with Dogen and Nishijima Roshi and you on this! Buddhism is what Buddha taught and practiced … as a “genius” human who worked to find truth! Other forms of Buddhism obviously exist and that’s fine, but they’re derivatives. Now, my question is … why doesn’t Zen (or the “real Buddhism”) then rely more on the early texts/suttas? I assume because they are not Mahayana but Theravadan? Pardon any ignorance. I know this gets complicated. 😊
I wanna say because of the Perfection of wisdom (prajnaparamita) that happened - the litterary, cultural and philosophical movement that grew out of early buddhist thought and changed it. A bit like why our way of thinking in Europe (including Christian thought) changed during the renaissance. (although many people still cling to the old ways - see flat earthers, anti-vaxxers etc)
The Early Buddhist Texts are part of the Mahayana Tripitaka (canon), in the form of the Agamas, the Chinese equivalent of the Nikayas of the Sutta Pitaka of the Pali Canon. Nowadays many western Mahayana Buddhists just use the Pali Nikayas because English translations of the Agamas are hard to come by and they're more or less the same as the Nikayas anyway.
One of the challenges of Mahayana Buddhism from a textual perspective is just that there are so many sutras! It would essentially take a lifetime to read and have a basic understanding of them all. You could spend a lifetime reading and studying the Flower Garland Sutra alone.
dogens account of early "zen" while "narrative" does accord to large degree with eric green's research ruclips.net/video/M8asW1VXalE/видео.html, zen originated as a meditation oriented variant of the buddhist sect and the lines between buddhism and zen were likely very blurred, but clearly rujing was boots and all "meditation"
rujing i prefer to dogen as more direct and honest, there's a vein of dishonesty that runs through dogen that is a little difficult to stomach which he probably felt was necessary to build a religion
Zen Buddhism is nothing but Dhyāna. It is common in Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism and Sikhism. English word for Dhyāna is Meditation.
I'd say I agree but it also isn't that simple, there are subtle differences. None of them really matter until you start trying to translate Sanskrit and Pali into Chinese, Thai, Burmese, then Japanese, then English... the idra is to grasp the idea, not the words, but there are also practical differences which Dogen explains very well elsewhere
I've wondered from time to time, is there a reason you don't say "Tim roshi"?
He doesn't like to be called that.
@@HardcoreZen Ah, that's a really good reason. :)
@@HardcoreZen Thank you Brad Roshi.