Id love to see Richard test the old "B" Port heads for stock, ported, and the double port turned into a massive single. Its one of those tests you never see!!!!
Until you put trick-flow heads on the 2v. They flow better than 4v heads. B heads flow 230 cfm while stock unported trick-flow heads flow 251cfm and port 290cfm
A 2v can make great power with the right combo,hopefully Richard will do a video on the 800hp 2v in his book. I followed his combo and made the same power with the same boost
@@williamking8684 The problem isnt peak flow. Even a NPI head can be easily worked to flow 225cfm which is more than enough airflow to feed a 4.6 past 7k rpms and past 400fwhp. Any amount of airflow past 200cfm actually outflows most Modular 2v intake manifolds so gains wont really occur until higher in the revs. Trickflow heads do not outflow 4v in average flow nor will a 2v ever match the valve curtain area of 4v per cylinder. The 2v actually requires a much more advanced intake valve and a tight lsa to try and use the escaping exhaust to scavenge more induction flow, hence the rough idle with 2vs. The 4v heads dont even remotely need this much overlap and will actually lose power at the novelty of lope. The 2v head cant overcome its valve curtain area like a 4v and with that needs so much more cam timing to be able to support power even with tricfklows, hence why the 4v head, even stock c heads at 218cfm @.400 lift will support just as much power as an offshelf trickflow head. Look at the power offered by the trickflow top end kit. They had high compression, .550 lift 230+ degree cam, heads that flow 240cfm, and a 1k dollar long runner intake manifold and when compared to a dead stock pi engine, they lost power at all points below 4k, they only gained 15hp by 4k rpms and 30hp by 5k. Unless you're shifting the car at or past 7k, the stock pi/npi stuff is cheaper and will support similar power and if you are shifting out there, a 4v may be a cheaper option when stock heads, cam, and induction can already support this.
@@GapSauceRUclips must've had freak heads because every set of 4v heads ive done work on flow less than 240cfm unmolested even ford says the 03-04 heads flow something like 225cfm. Ford has never really been honest about power figures and such related however.
I got my 03 Cobra in December '02, by 200 miles on odometer it had Bassani cat back on it. A 3.4 Whipple joined the party a few years later at a lower boost level (17ish), and 106,000 miles later it is still a really fun car to drive.
@@michealortiz3350 Trust me I know. I made the pulley swap back in 2008ish, and know the 3.4 is not being spun fast enough to make proper power. It lost over 100 ft-lbs of torque at 5k just swapping the pulley. At the time of the swap E85 was very difficult to find locally, and 93 octane was not enough. Lower boost was the only option. The 2.3l and 3.4l were the only size options at the time. Now I am too poor to buy any cool parts.
@@SC457A i bet it would pick up power and alot of torque with a gen3r swap around d 17-18 psi (similar boost) because that is more in the middle range as far as that blowers efficiency island as opposed to the huge 3.4 barely being spun at the bottom of its efficiency Island. If you aren't gonna spin it up to 21+ that isn't a good blower to go with. You would have likely been more happy with a 2.3 on pump gas they spin up quick and feel awesome and can actually make good power ecsp the vmp versions of it.
@@midnight347 Yep. Thought about selling the 3.4 and getting a properly sized one, but money is tied up in other things and other toys. The 3.4 started seeping out of the front seal, Whipple said since it's an older model, send in to be rebuilt.... dang 2008 parts.
That’s some belt slip. But it’s more the blower running out of its efficiency range. Basically over spinning it. Porting them helped to a point. But boost fall off and heat soak was inevitable with the M112.
+100 That blower only flowed about, what, 800 CFM max before porting? That's not much and approaching 600 hp would certainly be pushing the limits. And the pulley ratio at 14-15 psi is probably about 2.5:1 which puts you at 17.5k blower rpm at 7k rpm engine speed. That's about as far as you'd want to go on an unported unit.
I had a pretty fast mustang for the street when the 03's came out . it definitely got alot more fun. People were modding those things on day one and fighting that belt slippage. Those cars were so awesome . Keep the videos coming this great
Have a basic bolt on(tune,pulley,tb-inlet,exhaust) Terminator swap in my 99 Cobra vert. Makes for a great cruiser with plenty of torque to be fun. Made a typical 482rwhp/507 rwtq. Cool seeing all the way back dyno testing!
I have seen 800 + hp on these back in the day with a Big Whipple, Cams and Ported heads............Fantastic Platform and personally I would take a Terminator motor all day every day over ANY Coyote Set-up...........Not because it is better, it is not...........Its because IMO it is a great mix of Old and new. It has the look when done right of a modern day Boss 429 and doesnt have all that plastic crap on it like the Coyote....Which is like putting Make-up on a PIG so too speak.
Guys have made 800 wheel with a stock long block with the gen3r that is impressive. Blowers have came a long ways. I agree with you the terminator motor and 07-14 gt500 motors (the 4v mod motors) sound amazing too and better than a coyote imo. They are also more torque oriented especially the 5.4/5.8 with their long stroke.
Belt slippage could be the culprit, but what about just the limit of the blower? Guess you’d have to use the wayback machine to find out. Those 4V heads do make some power, though!
The 03 cobra was rated at 390 horse 390 torque not 370 but yes they were definitely underrated ive seen some put down over 380 rwhp bone stock. The real power figure is more like 430 probably at the crank and like you said it isn't so much what they are stock that makes them awesome its more about their potential which is very very high ecspecially for a mustang from 2003. They can hang with the best cars of today as far as making big power on a stock long block without alot of modding. Love these and the 07 up gt500s which are very similar just the newer version.
I vaguely remember a car mag finding that these motors had an issue from the factory with cam timing. That replacing the the cam timing sprockets with adjustable (prior to a cam swap), and changing the timing just to factory spec, was good for decent two digit gains.
The factory secondary tensioners do alter the timing at rpm. I filed the factory gears to degree my cams. Added nearly 40degrees of intake duration and actually made peak torque earlier as well as carrying it well after 7000rpm on a 5.4L.
I have been an 04 cobra since 2007 still have my car. And I must say I really enjoy this video and I look forward to future videos about this motor. I have over the years done many of the modifications that you shown today and at this point I am considering a Whipple 2.9 and E85. Video on the effects of E85 fuel would be interesting as well. Thanks for all you do!
Firstly, all 4V per cylinder engines are much smoother than 2V per cylinder. Secondly, they make more power and torque for a given rpm. Thirdly, they respond better to the right boost prescription than a 2 valve per cylinder engine. Forthly the amount of headroom before destruction is much greater. On overhead cam 4V's they can take Cosworth DFX style boost even with just 4.6 liters and an alloy block. I'm liking the dyno session. One thing though....our Aussie Ford Falcon DJR 320 5.4 liter made 429 hp net at just 5500 rpm in 2003...without a blower. That's 500 hp gross without the heat factor and net altitude correction. You only just scraping the surface of a super tough industrial strength diamond, my friend....Remember 18:44 on live chat
AWESOME video, thanks Richard! Please do a few different twin screw blowers next. IE Whipple 2.3L, 2.9L. 3.0L. or the Kenny Bells. I added a 2.3L Whipple to a mostly stock Terminator(in 2006), stk. throttle body, exht. manifolds, stk. cat pipe, w/just a cat back and a larger heat exchanger and CAI it eventually made 557rwhp with a very conservative road racing(lots of heat) tune. MASSIVE FUN!! Not the best car choice for road race type track event usage, because the cars are SO HEAVY and only have 13" frt brake rotors. But I did it any way and had a blast. Mystichrome coupe #539, purchased new in 2004, finally sold it in 2017. Jimmysidecarr on the SVT forums.
@@richardholdener1727 wondering if that's 600 heavily ported? I've for sure heard of 600 on the stock blower before. It just looks weird out there to me. According to the boost curves you had it didn't seem to drop large amounts of boost off. Usually they love to Rev so idk
Ford had to use iron block because aluminum block fwd firewall wasn't rigid enough to withstand bending moment from the blower and crank pulley system. Think Roush teamed up with them for development. There's a good SAE tech paper on this engine development.
This is a perfect example of what the losses are most these cobras dyno 360 to the wheels stock so from engine dyno to wheel hp subtract about 120 and you will be on the money if not real close
Everything im reading says that the 03-04 Aviator shares the same 184° @ .050 duration intake cams, and the same 196° exhaust cams as the 03/04 Cobra. These engines are quite affordable. The aviator comes with an aluminum block instead of iron like the cobra, 10:1 compression up from the 8.5:1 on the early stuff, and ultimately makes an affordable drop in swap for any modular powered vehicle.
I'm a sucker for the 5.2 flat-plane crank Voodoo. But Ford didn't go far enough. It's like a half a flat-plane. They had to ruin the firing order and add crank counterweights because they couldn't fit a dual intake manifold (Like a Ferrari flat-plane V8 uses) under the hood of a Mustang. I won't be satisfied until someone pays Callies for a true flat-plane crank with the proper firing order, and pays Comp for 4 custom cams for that firing order. And then build 2 sheet metal intakes to mount dual throttle bodies. And spin that bitch to 9000-9500rpm.
My buddy had an 03 Cobra and I think it dynoed like 360 to the tires stock. It wound up running over 500hp to the tires with tuning and pulley changes but eventualy the lack of ring gap got it and it left the tops of the pistons and top rings in the tops of the cylinder bores :-(
I've never heard of anybodysmoking a cobra motor at 500 wheel. Guys go 800+ on an untouched long block quite often with these just blower swap, fuel system and good fuel+tune. He wasn't doing long highway pulls in 5th and 6th gear was he? That is a recipe for disaster ecsp with a pullied to the moon and back stock blower. High boost high heat low load is a bad combo. I've seen guys melt pistons doing this.
@@midnight347 yeah it probably would have lived a long time a quarter mile at a time but he decided to race a Mercedes amg sedan to work one day and after a minute or two running like 140 it gave up.
I have an 03 Mach 1 that my son and I tinker around with. I wish ford would have put forged internals in the automatic cars as well. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they rated the terminator at 380 whp
As a former 03 owner,,,this video was amazing. Minimal mods on mine, tuning by JDM in NJ and i was running 510 to the rear wheels. Loved this car. Richard, do u happen to know Herman? He was here in FL for a bit, doing his tuning (Horsepower by Herman.) He had a Terminator that was converted to turbo and auto that would spank pretty much everything. Granted, this was in '05/'06.
Thanks Richard. My father's '98 Mk. 8 Lincoln has the 4.6L 32v 4-cam. Would that Cobra crate engine swap into the Lincoln? The original engine I would be pulling out has less than 60,000 miles which should be worth something I suppose.
I love the terminator, but at over 14 psi on 4.6 it was still making less than the new 5.2 coyote crate engine does at 0 psi. Nuts what Ford is doing today.
They're two completely different engines. One is low compression with boost, the other is high compression NA. And no, a coyote ain't making more power then a pulled cobra on 14psi, sorry.
That is at a way higher rpm, with way more compression and tech and this cobra has a tiny super old out of date Eaton blower on it. I notice you compared the hp but didn't say anything about a torque comparison? Funny how you coyote guys cherry pick lol.
@@midnight347 funny how I'm a "coyote guy" with a 2v modular engine in my 280z... Trust me, I understand torque and power under the curve. Doesn't make the Coyote continually topping BMEP charts year after year less impressive.
So officially, the Terminator Cobra was making 480hp-430trq out the box 🤯. That explains why when the 5th gen ls3 Camaro came out they were still losing against stock Terminators.
So I have a remanned Mopar 4.7 and I'm thinking about an m112 blower for the engine I take out . What do you think of the 11-13 4.7 will it do well with a supercharger . Also I run e-85
You promote ring gap with boost on LS engines but didn't hear anything about it on this Ford motor??? Was there all ready gap because it came with the blower from the factory and lower compression to run that??
Haha just an excuse to...um upgrade!!! Lmao I did that. 100 then 150.... fk it jumped to a 250 on a tbi injected 305 in a 91 camaro. Full bolt ons.... I mean full. All cept heads and cam... sooo 200? 215? On a good day.. then 2 fuel pumps 2 fuel lines and a 250 wet shot... fk me it was fun for over a year and a full bottle every weekend at Rankin rd in houston. All the turds knew... that black stock lookin rs.... dont pick on it. They knew I sprayed...never knew how much. But back then that level was stupid... so much fun. Good times
I inherited my fathers Lincoln Mk. 8. It has this engine. Can any Cobra modifications also apply to this car? Can I supercharge it without modifying the hood?
Sorry brother but unless your father did an engine swap it doesn’t have this engine in it. The Lincoln versions of the engine shares the same block design and that’s about it. The 03/04 cobra engines have fully forged internals where the Lincoln version has cast or hypereutectic internals. The cobra engine has WAY better/stronger cams, heads(although there was some debate about b vs c heads back in the day), crank, rods, pistons. The list goes on. The good thing is most of the cobra parts will bolt right on your engine. The bad thing is its not cheap.
@@TurboNFRStwoK well thanks for finally getting to it. I guess since '98 and '03 they did a little work to the engine. But it's still the same 4.6L 4valve 4 cam engine just different? Got it.
@@Malibu1515 I guess… but if you want to go that far basically your engine is about as close to an 03 cobra engine as a 4.6 SOHC 2v is. Yes they share the same dohc design. But when it comes to actual parts, they share the same block and that’s about it. You can’t even put a 03-04 supercharger on your car because the heads are completely different. I’m not knocking your car. Please don’t take it like that. This would apply to the pre 03 mustang cobras as well. SVT went nuts on the terminator engine. People were putting turbo kits on them stock and making 1000hp back in the mid 2000s when that was almost unheard of outside of dedicated race cars.
@@TurboNFRStwoK I always thought the '99 Cobra engine is more like what I have. Not the '03. I understand they improved the engine. That's what you are suppose to do if you're keeping up with the Jones. All I'd really like to do is add a supercharger and not have to cut the hood is all. Or maybe find one of these Terminator engines but Richard said you can't get these Cobra engines anymore.
@@Malibu1515 I’ve seen people take a Kenne Bell 2L supercharger for the 98 cobra and put them on the MK8s. You have to cut the bracing out of the hood but it will fit without cutting a hole or requiring a whole hood change. I think you have to use the 98 cobra fuel rails as well. But for the most part it’s pretty bolt on. If you don’t HAVE to have a positive displacement supercharger then Vortec makes a centrifugal supercharger that bolts right up, will easily fit under your hood and make an easy 500whp on your car. A centrifugal supercharger will be a little easier on the engine and transmission as well. It makes boost (and thus power) in a very linear fashion. Unlike a PD supercharger that gives it to you all at once and can more easily find the weak points of your setup if you have any.
@@richardholdener1727 Kaase re-designed the 429/460 Ford Motorsport Cobra Jet heads for Ford.. new and improved version. He would likely know how close the previous version was to the original D0OE-R casting. Kaase might also know if the original Ford Motorsport Cobra Jet heads were approved for NHRA competition like some of the Edelbrock/GM/copies are. About 15,000 CJ's and 3000 SCJ's made by Ford.. both should have the D0OE-R head. D0OE-R head had larger runners than garden variety 429s. I don't know if the 1st vintage Ford Motorsport heads would be easier to source than original D0OE-R's.. If in fact they are close copies to the D0OE-R. Most of the T-birds.. by far the largest receipiant of the 429 were in ThunderJet trim. Be interesting to see if the 429SCJ of 1971 equaled the LS6 454 of 1970. Back in the day I had a catalog of Alan Root's/Dove Mfg.. Root bought alot of the original tooling for BBF's from Ford. There are Root/Dove branded heads out there.. I don't know if there are any SCJ/Heads wearing the Root brand... back when I had the catalog I was all about the FE. Root did some mfg'ing for Ford Motorsport.
Makes sense to why mine went faster shifting at 5800 vs 6500. It might have even liked 5600. With a ported blower on pump gas it made 468whp 471wtq. It was in s notchback. I know the ford guys loved them but honestly they were way overrated imo.
Id love to see Richard test the old "B" Port heads for stock, ported, and the double port turned into a massive single. Its one of those tests you never see!!!!
Love the 4.6. 4v one of the best sounding engines. And so much better than the 2v.
Until you put trick-flow heads on the 2v. They flow better than 4v heads. B heads flow 230 cfm while stock unported trick-flow heads flow 251cfm and port 290cfm
A 2v can make great power with the right combo,hopefully Richard will do a video on the 800hp 2v in his book.
I followed his combo and made the same power with the same boost
@@williamking8684 Our 03/04 cobra heads flow 270-275cfm untouched.
@@williamking8684 The problem isnt peak flow. Even a NPI head can be easily worked to flow 225cfm which is more than enough airflow to feed a 4.6 past 7k rpms and past 400fwhp. Any amount of airflow past 200cfm actually outflows most Modular 2v intake manifolds so gains wont really occur until higher in the revs. Trickflow heads do not outflow 4v in average flow nor will a 2v ever match the valve curtain area of 4v per cylinder. The 2v actually requires a much more advanced intake valve and a tight lsa to try and use the escaping exhaust to scavenge more induction flow, hence the rough idle with 2vs. The 4v heads dont even remotely need this much overlap and will actually lose power at the novelty of lope. The 2v head cant overcome its valve curtain area like a 4v and with that needs so much more cam timing to be able to support power even with tricfklows, hence why the 4v head, even stock c heads at 218cfm @.400 lift will support just as much power as an offshelf trickflow head. Look at the power offered by the trickflow top end kit. They had high compression, .550 lift 230+ degree cam, heads that flow 240cfm, and a 1k dollar long runner intake manifold and when compared to a dead stock pi engine, they lost power at all points below 4k, they only gained 15hp by 4k rpms and 30hp by 5k. Unless you're shifting the car at or past 7k, the stock pi/npi stuff is cheaper and will support similar power and if you are shifting out there, a 4v may be a cheaper option when stock heads, cam, and induction can already support this.
@@GapSauceRUclips must've had freak heads because every set of 4v heads ive done work on flow less than 240cfm unmolested even ford says the 03-04 heads flow something like 225cfm. Ford has never really been honest about power figures and such related however.
I got my 03 Cobra in December '02, by 200 miles on odometer it had Bassani cat back on it. A 3.4 Whipple joined the party a few years later at a lower boost level (17ish), and 106,000 miles later it is still a really fun car to drive.
A 3.4 whipple at only 17psi is useless. That blower needs to be at atleast 21psi on e85.
@@michealortiz3350 Trust me I know. I made the pulley swap back in 2008ish, and know the 3.4 is not being spun fast enough to make proper power. It lost over 100 ft-lbs of torque at 5k just swapping the pulley. At the time of the swap E85 was very difficult to find locally, and 93 octane was not enough. Lower boost was the only option. The 2.3l and 3.4l were the only size options at the time. Now I am too poor to buy any cool parts.
@@SC457A i bet it would pick up power and alot of torque with a gen3r swap around d 17-18 psi (similar boost) because that is more in the middle range as far as that blowers efficiency island as opposed to the huge 3.4 barely being spun at the bottom of its efficiency Island. If you aren't gonna spin it up to 21+ that isn't a good blower to go with. You would have likely been more happy with a 2.3 on pump gas they spin up quick and feel awesome and can actually make good power ecsp the vmp versions of it.
@@midnight347 Yep. Thought about selling the 3.4 and getting a properly sized one, but money is tied up in other things and other toys. The 3.4 started seeping out of the front seal, Whipple said since it's an older model, send in to be rebuilt.... dang 2008 parts.
That’s some belt slip. But it’s more the blower running out of its efficiency range. Basically over spinning it. Porting them helped to a point. But boost fall off and heat soak was inevitable with the M112.
+100 That blower only flowed about, what, 800 CFM max before porting? That's not much and approaching 600 hp would certainly be pushing the limits. And the pulley ratio at 14-15 psi is probably about 2.5:1 which puts you at 17.5k blower rpm at 7k rpm engine speed. That's about as far as you'd want to go on an unported unit.
I remember some lightning combos with 10.25 inch crank pulleys which seemed crazy at the time but they kept good belt wrap.
I had a pretty fast mustang for the street when the 03's came out . it definitely got alot more fun. People were modding those things on day one and fighting that belt slippage. Those cars were so awesome . Keep the videos coming this great
I don't care who you are, having 100hp or around 20% more power than the factory rating is AMAZING.
Have a basic bolt on(tune,pulley,tb-inlet,exhaust) Terminator swap in my 99 Cobra vert. Makes for a great cruiser with plenty of torque to be fun. Made a typical 482rwhp/507 rwtq.
Cool seeing all the way back dyno testing!
Love this. Positive dosplacement superchargers will always be my favorite way to boost.
Please tell me you have more terminator content! Awesome video
Yes I do
I have seen 800 + hp on these back in the day with a Big Whipple, Cams and Ported heads............Fantastic Platform and personally I would take a Terminator motor all day every day over ANY Coyote Set-up...........Not because it is better, it is not...........Its because IMO it is a great mix of Old and new. It has the look when done right of a modern day Boss 429 and doesnt have all that plastic crap on it like the Coyote....Which is like putting Make-up on a PIG so too speak.
Guys have made 800 wheel with a stock long block with the gen3r that is impressive. Blowers have came a long ways. I agree with you the terminator motor and 07-14 gt500 motors (the 4v mod motors) sound amazing too and better than a coyote imo. They are also more torque oriented especially the 5.4/5.8 with their long stroke.
Belt slippage could be the culprit, but what about just the limit of the blower? Guess you’d have to use the wayback machine to find out. Those 4V heads do make some power, though!
I had the polished show display motor as my desktop for years.
Another great, informative video Richard. Thank you for keeping after it
The 03 cobra was rated at 390 horse 390 torque not 370 but yes they were definitely underrated ive seen some put down over 380 rwhp bone stock. The real power figure is more like 430 probably at the crank and like you said it isn't so much what they are stock that makes them awesome its more about their potential which is very very high ecspecially for a mustang from 2003. They can hang with the best cars of today as far as making big power on a stock long block without alot of modding. Love these and the 07 up gt500s which are very similar just the newer version.
I vaguely remember a car mag finding that these motors had an issue from the factory with cam timing. That replacing the the cam timing sprockets with adjustable (prior to a cam swap), and changing the timing just to factory spec, was good for decent two digit gains.
The factory secondary tensioners do alter the timing at rpm.
I filed the factory gears to degree my cams. Added nearly 40degrees of intake duration and actually made peak torque earlier as well as carrying it well after 7000rpm on a 5.4L.
yes-I did that story way back for MMFF-the cam timing is off side to side
I have been an 04 cobra since 2007 still have my car. And I must say I really enjoy this video and I look forward to future videos about this motor. I have over the years done many of the modifications that you shown today and at this point I am considering a Whipple 2.9 and E85. Video on the effects of E85 fuel would be interesting as well. Thanks for all you do!
THERE ARE VIDEOS UP ON A KENNE BELL UPGRADE AS WELL AS A VORTECH/PAXTON ON THE 03 (AND TURBOS)
ROUSH Mustang Belt Tensioner PART #: 404225 is a nice bolt-on upgrade. Belt Slip = Fixed on my 800whp Terminator
Firstly, all 4V per cylinder engines are much smoother than 2V per cylinder. Secondly, they make more power and torque for a given rpm. Thirdly, they respond better to the right boost prescription than a 2 valve per cylinder engine. Forthly the amount of headroom before destruction is much greater. On overhead cam 4V's they can take Cosworth DFX style boost even with just 4.6 liters and an alloy block. I'm liking the dyno session. One thing though....our Aussie Ford Falcon DJR 320 5.4 liter made 429 hp net at just 5500 rpm in 2003...without a blower. That's 500 hp gross without the heat factor and net altitude correction. You only just scraping the surface of a super tough industrial strength diamond, my friend....Remember 18:44 on live
chat
@@bigboreracing356 don't break it then
Do air charge temperature! The m112’s Achilles heel….
AWESOME video, thanks Richard!
Please do a few different twin screw blowers next. IE Whipple 2.3L, 2.9L. 3.0L. or the Kenny Bells.
I added a 2.3L Whipple to a mostly stock Terminator(in 2006), stk. throttle body, exht. manifolds, stk. cat pipe, w/just a cat back and a larger heat exchanger and CAI it eventually made 557rwhp with a very conservative road racing(lots of heat) tune. MASSIVE FUN!!
Not the best car choice for road race type track event usage, because the cars are SO HEAVY and only have 13" frt brake rotors. But I did it any way and had a blast. Mystichrome coupe #539, purchased new in 2004, finally sold it in 2017. Jimmysidecarr on the SVT forums.
THAT VIDEO IS UP ALREADY-KENNE BELL AND VORTECH
Great job Richard
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! TOTALLY AWESOME EDUCATION!!!!! THANKS FOR SHARING!!!!
Early upload first one here! Love the termi. Wondering if it wasn't belt slip and it was simply out of blower.
It was getting close-but I think guys have made over 600 hp with the stock blower
@@richardholdener1727 wondering if that's 600 heavily ported? I've for sure heard of 600 on the stock blower before. It just looks weird out there to me. According to the boost curves you had it didn't seem to drop large amounts of boost off. Usually they love to Rev so idk
My sister is the current owner of one of the Indy car Terminators.
Wow love to see that underrated HP proof!!!!
I definitely enjoyed the twin 57 mm combination, still being considerably crate engine I was like😳 knocking on the door for 1k hp.
My wife's 04 with a 2.76 upper and 2lb lower with a medium port on the blower made 17psi on a chassis dyno. Think it was 15psi with stock lower.
Wish we got these in Aus, we had to wait until 2011 for a Boosted Coyote.
Ford had to use iron block because aluminum block fwd firewall wasn't rigid enough to withstand bending moment from the blower and crank pulley system. Think Roush teamed up with them for development. There's a good SAE tech paper on this engine development.
Would love to see the same test with a BONE stock 01+ Lightning long block.
This is a perfect example of what the losses are most these cobras dyno 360 to the wheels stock so from engine dyno to wheel hp subtract about 120 and you will be on the money if not real close
Everything im reading says that the 03-04 Aviator shares the same 184° @ .050 duration intake cams, and the same 196° exhaust cams as the 03/04 Cobra. These engines are quite affordable. The aviator comes with an aluminum block instead of iron like the cobra, 10:1 compression up from the 8.5:1 on the early stuff, and ultimately makes an affordable drop in swap for any modular powered vehicle.
Yes and coyote rods would be a good budget setup with it to make some good power.
@@midnight347 Coyote rods are still dirt cheap too. Cheap forged ones can be had from Mod Max or MMR
I love that engine!!!!
😳I'm blown away🤯...you can STILL get a Terminator engine, Brand New, from Ford! I want this engine for my car!
this is very old
I would love to see a big bang set up on a Ford 2.3
An 100mm auxiliary idler pulley would help with the belt slip. You'll still have some, but not as much.
I'm a sucker for the 5.2 flat-plane crank Voodoo. But Ford didn't go far enough. It's like a half a flat-plane. They had to ruin the firing order and add crank counterweights because they couldn't fit a dual intake manifold (Like a Ferrari flat-plane V8 uses) under the hood of a Mustang. I won't be satisfied until someone pays Callies for a true flat-plane crank with the proper firing order, and pays Comp for 4 custom cams for that firing order. And then build 2 sheet metal intakes to mount dual throttle bodies. And spin that bitch to 9000-9500rpm.
Awesome video. 😁
Thought they were 390hp stock in the 03/04 Cobra.
Talking about the claimed hp.
YES
That tune made a lot more torque
My buddy had an 03 Cobra and I think it dynoed like 360 to the tires stock. It wound up running over 500hp to the tires with tuning and pulley changes but eventualy the lack of ring gap got it and it left the tops of the pistons and top rings in the tops of the cylinder bores :-(
I've never heard of anybodysmoking a cobra motor at 500 wheel. Guys go 800+ on an untouched long block quite often with these just blower swap, fuel system and good fuel+tune. He wasn't doing long highway pulls in 5th and 6th gear was he? That is a recipe for disaster ecsp with a pullied to the moon and back stock blower. High boost high heat low load is a bad combo. I've seen guys melt pistons doing this.
@@midnight347 yeah it probably would have lived a long time a quarter mile at a time but he decided to race a Mercedes amg sedan to work one day and after a minute or two running like 140 it gave up.
Right on
Damn good video
Those 4.6s made massive amounts of torque
Lol
@@racecitypatriot5017 what's so funny? The terminator engines do make ALOT of tq
@@michealortiz3350 they do so do the 07-14 gt500 motors. The long stroke 5.4/5.8 is like a big tall deck 4.6 with a longer stroke.
@@midnight347 yup you're right about that
Yes I believe that was "wheel" horse 🐎 power 🔋. Sneaky weren't they ?
My favorite Ford motor was actually made by Navistar International. 🚜
I was so close to picking up an 04 cobra back in 2010. $16k then 🤤😎
Wow I'm really confused, my 03 has a ported eaton 2.76 upper pulley and a tune and only dynoed at 485 to the wheels
Richard you should do Coyote vs 4.6 32V! Stock and mod for mod!
I have an 03 Mach 1 that my son and I tinker around with. I wish ford would have put forged internals in the automatic cars as well. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they rated the terminator at 380 whp
It was rated 390hp at the crank. So I think your pretty close.
@@allanb3222 390 at the crank rated but some are over 380 wheel bone stock it's more like 430 hp.
I wish they still sold those.
As a former 03 owner,,,this video was amazing. Minimal mods on mine, tuning by JDM in NJ and i was running 510 to the rear wheels. Loved this car. Richard, do u happen to know Herman? He was here in FL for a bit, doing his tuning (Horsepower by Herman.) He had a Terminator that was converted to turbo and auto that would spank pretty much everything. Granted, this was in '05/'06.
Aaand instantly searching for pricing.. would love one of these to replace the old 2v
Lincoln aviator can be had cheap.
Or the Navi 4V
Thanks Richard. My father's '98 Mk. 8 Lincoln has the 4.6L 32v 4-cam. Would that Cobra crate engine swap into the Lincoln? The original engine I would be pulling out has less than 60,000 miles which should be worth something I suppose.
NOT SURE THEY EVEN OFFER IT ANY MORE
That's good that you mentioned belt slippage but what are your thoughts on grip tech pulleys?
THEY HELP, BUT LOWER BELT LIFE IS MY UNDERSTANDING
Its not a powerhouse but my favorite Ford engine would be the 4.9 6cyl in my truck. Tank of an engine that will run forever.
Why don't you try a Caddy 2.0 turbo motor?
I love the terminator, but at over 14 psi on 4.6 it was still making less than the new 5.2 coyote crate engine does at 0 psi. Nuts what Ford is doing today.
They're two completely different engines. One is low compression with boost, the other is high compression NA. And no, a coyote ain't making more power then a pulled cobra on 14psi, sorry.
That is at a way higher rpm, with way more compression and tech and this cobra has a tiny super old out of date Eaton blower on it. I notice you compared the hp but didn't say anything about a torque comparison? Funny how you coyote guys cherry pick lol.
@@midnight347 funny how I'm a "coyote guy" with a 2v modular engine in my 280z... Trust me, I understand torque and power under the curve. Doesn't make the Coyote continually topping BMEP charts year after year less impressive.
I've got an 05 Aviator engine. What should I do to it to be able to add a stock supercharger? Thanks
you need an adapter, or blower kit or most of the 03 cobra stuff
Yes finally
I wish we could've hear the dyno runs
Off topic but have you ran any ls7 to ls3 intake adapters?
So officially, the Terminator Cobra was making 480hp-430trq out the box 🤯. That explains why when the 5th gen ls3 Camaro came out they were still losing against stock Terminators.
So officially it was rated at 370 hp-tested in a different manner than this
@richardholdener1727 I see, probably with the full intake and full exhaust installed. Btw 390hp*
So I have a remanned Mopar 4.7 and I'm thinking about an m112 blower for the engine I take out . What do you think of the 11-13 4.7 will it do well with a supercharger . Also I run e-85
yes
You promote ring gap with boost on LS engines but didn't hear anything about it on this Ford motor??? Was there all ready gap because it came with the blower from the factory and lower compression to run that??
I SAID I DIDN'T CHANGE IT IN THE VIDEO (MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE LIVE FEED)
you mean to tell me 2 years ago these were still crates 😢. I wish I could.
my test was a while back
@@richardholdener1727 sell it to me lol. I got a marauder I'm building
you need to try force feeding that supercharger with a pair of turbos, that would be sweet.
Pfft. A 50-75 shot to cool the carge... and to use as a ..." passing gear " lol
WE DID THAT TOO
Haha just an excuse to...um upgrade!!! Lmao I did that. 100 then 150.... fk it jumped to a 250 on a tbi injected 305 in a 91 camaro. Full bolt ons.... I mean full. All cept heads and cam... sooo 200? 215? On a good day.. then 2 fuel pumps 2 fuel lines and a 250 wet shot... fk me it was fun for over a year and a full bottle every weekend at Rankin rd in houston. All the turds knew... that black stock lookin rs.... dont pick on it. They knew I sprayed...never knew how much. But back then that level was stupid... so much fun. Good times
@@richardholdener1727 uhhh? Really? Gotta be joking lol
At that higher horsepower level would you recommend some better valve Springs
we did that eventually
Why? People make 800whp on 100% stock engines. I'm one of them. Gen 4 2.9 whipple on 25psi and e85 for fuel.
I would imagine this engine made around 400 hp BEFORE Ford put the blower on it, even with those terrible looking exhaust manifolds.
I inherited my fathers Lincoln Mk. 8. It has this engine. Can any Cobra modifications also apply to this car? Can I supercharge it without modifying the hood?
Sorry brother but unless your father did an engine swap it doesn’t have this engine in it.
The Lincoln versions of the engine shares the same block design and that’s about it. The 03/04 cobra engines have fully forged internals where the Lincoln version has cast or hypereutectic internals. The cobra engine has WAY better/stronger cams, heads(although there was some debate about b vs c heads back in the day), crank, rods, pistons. The list goes on.
The good thing is most of the cobra parts will bolt right on your engine. The bad thing is its not cheap.
@@TurboNFRStwoK well thanks for finally getting to it. I guess since '98 and '03 they did a little work to the engine. But it's still the same 4.6L 4valve 4 cam engine just different? Got it.
@@Malibu1515 I guess… but if you want to go that far basically your engine is about as close to an 03 cobra engine as a 4.6 SOHC 2v is. Yes they share the same dohc design. But when it comes to actual parts, they share the same block and that’s about it. You can’t even put a 03-04 supercharger on your car because the heads are completely different. I’m not knocking your car. Please don’t take it like that. This would apply to the pre 03 mustang cobras as well. SVT went nuts on the terminator engine. People were putting turbo kits on them stock and making 1000hp back in the mid 2000s when that was almost unheard of outside of dedicated race cars.
@@TurboNFRStwoK I always thought the '99 Cobra engine is more like what I have. Not the '03. I understand they improved the engine. That's what you are suppose to do if you're keeping up with the Jones. All I'd really like to do is add a supercharger and not have to cut the hood is all. Or maybe find one of these Terminator engines but Richard said you can't get these Cobra engines anymore.
@@Malibu1515 I’ve seen people take a Kenne Bell 2L supercharger for the 98 cobra and put them on the MK8s. You have to cut the bracing out of the hood but it will fit without cutting a hole or requiring a whole hood change. I think you have to use the 98 cobra fuel rails as well. But for the most part it’s pretty bolt on.
If you don’t HAVE to have a positive displacement supercharger then Vortec makes a centrifugal supercharger that bolts right up, will easily fit under your hood and make an easy 500whp on your car.
A centrifugal supercharger will be a little easier on the engine and transmission as well. It makes boost (and thus power) in a very linear fashion. Unlike a PD supercharger that gives it to you all at once and can more easily find the weak points of your setup if you have any.
They didn't under rate it they said 390 little did we know they actually ment 390 to the wheel lmao love the termi
@3:34 - wrong torque unit(Hp).
I thought termi was 390/390
I was guessing 450 on engine dyno. Didn’t see yet so I’m sure I’m wrong.
it was-my bad
Big Bang worthy?
Heads needed for SCJ are casting # D0OE-R.
thnx
@@richardholdener1727 Kaase re-designed the 429/460 Ford Motorsport Cobra Jet heads for Ford.. new and improved version. He would likely know how close the previous version was to the original D0OE-R casting. Kaase might also know if the original Ford Motorsport Cobra Jet heads were approved for NHRA competition like some of the Edelbrock/GM/copies are. About 15,000 CJ's and 3000 SCJ's made by Ford.. both should have the D0OE-R head. D0OE-R head had larger runners than garden variety 429s. I don't know if the 1st vintage Ford Motorsport heads would be easier to source than original D0OE-R's.. If in fact they are close copies to the D0OE-R. Most of the T-birds.. by far the largest receipiant of the 429 were in ThunderJet trim. Be interesting to see if the 429SCJ of 1971 equaled the LS6 454 of 1970. Back in the day I had a catalog of Alan Root's/Dove Mfg.. Root bought alot of the original tooling for BBF's from Ford. There are Root/Dove branded heads out there.. I don't know if there are any SCJ/Heads wearing the Root brand... back when I had the catalog I was all about the FE. Root did some mfg'ing for Ford Motorsport.
I'm not a ford fan but..... did ford actually make the terminator engine? I been thinking about this motor for a swap for a car im building
WHO ELSE WOULD HAVE MADE IT?
@@richardholdener1727 Some questions lol.
Makes sense to why mine went faster shifting at 5800 vs 6500. It might have even liked 5600.
With a ported blower on pump gas it made 468whp 471wtq. It was in s notchback.
I know the ford guys loved them but honestly they were way overrated imo.
it would take way to much Cutting to get that into my Mustang.
i hate anything terminator related im still regretting trading mine in for a 2014 gt 😪
Rated at 390 not 370.
👍
Why did he keep saying 370 hp? Everybody knows its an underrated 390 hp 390 torque.
yes-my bad
Someone forgot to carry the 1
I believe she wanted her cams re degreed
You mean 390hp that’s what they were rated at
Personally I blame squirrels
370 370 370 370 370????????
and still ran like poo 🤣