Good Robot Fights vs Bad Robot Fights
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Go to piavpn.com/Lan... to get 83% off Private Internet Access with 4 months free!
#Transformers #PacificRim #michaelbay
In this video essay, we delve into the contrasting directorial styles of Michael Bay and Guillermo del Toro, particularly focusing on their approach to action sequences in blockbuster films. Michael Bay's "Transformers" series, known for its explosive and chaotic action scenes, is often criticized for its lack of coherence and visual clarity. Bay's frenetic editing and overuse of shaky cam techniques leave audiences disoriented, struggling to follow the action and narrative.
In stark contrast, Guillermo del Toro's "Pacific Rim" showcases a masterclass in action direction. Del Toro emphasizes clarity and scale, allowing viewers to fully appreciate the grandeur of giant robots battling monstrous kaiju. His use of wide shots and deliberate pacing ensures that every punch, crash, and explosion is both impactful and comprehensible. Del Toro's attention to detail and commitment to storytelling within action sequences set a high standard for the genre.
Go to piavpn.com/Lancelloti to get 83% off Private Internet Access with 4 months free!
Man I like both pacific rim and transformers
hello
Transformers need moving parts to actually transform. The pacific rim robots are meant to be just big suits of armour. They are entirely different from eachother and thus have different requirements for character design
Not a fair comparison though.. good try buddy.. 😅
Why are you not show the rest of TF fights dude you're biased
Pacific Rim is such a great movie. Shame it never got a sequel. Great video and analysis man, keep it up !
Yeah, it is really a shame. If only it we that way :(
Would've been nice
Not sure if serious....
@@MumRahobviously not man
@@MumRahshush mongrel
Michael bay is like the exibit of movies “we heard you like action, so we put action in your action! 🤯💥🔥”
Bingo😂
"The most action movie action movie to ever be made" is such a stupid description, yet it's so damn true.
The second movie especially, I can't think of many movies that deliberately tries this fucking hard to tick every cliche action movie trope imaginable and I LOVE it.
The fact that a lot of people struggle to follow the action in bayverse movies whereas I have no problem doing so, makes me feel so powerful.
same they made the designs in age of extinction more human so it's more cohesive but no people have to complain it looks too human there are people that you can't please
I can follow the action from every movie of Transformers too
Same , also transformers had a technological gap too. And the direction it wanted was, Chaos, because it is Chaos when you suddenly see big alien robots fight each other around you
You must be a senile pregnant baby to not follow the action there
it's the 'tism in ya
I'm glad that Bayformer fans aren't as toxic as Snyderverse fans. I was expecting a lot of toxicity in the comments, but no-it's just some people disagreeing and agreeing with each other. Some Bayformer fans just disagreed with the video; they said they like the action scenes and moved on. So idk, optimum pride ur ur arg argh argh
@@Iloveyou-dz7mq why would we have to be toxic? Baypeak fans have been oppressed by Geewunners for almost two decades
@@KaygeeFromNanotrasen preach!
@@KaygeeFromNanotrasen Oppressed? All bayfans I saw said that G1 fans are a very small group well barly a group since their very small and they can't do nothing now their making you oppressed?
@@mmouse1301 *they're
@@KaygeeFromNanotrasen Sorry *they're
Hi, not trying to hate here, but I don’t think you provided a fair comparison. Nearly all the parts you showed from Transformers are the worst of the worst in terms of visuals, and are completely unconnected shots and scenes, whereas Pacific Rim you showed primarily the best fight in the movie.
A much better comparison would’ve been with the forest fight from ROTF. It has everything you’re talking about with the editing and some messiness, but also has great parts too. I fear you didn’t show that scene because it doesn’t fully support your argument, I’m not trying to be rude saying that but that’s how it seems to me.
I actually agree with you on most of this (I am definitely not saying the TF movies are very good) but the video feels incredibly one sided and not like an actual analysis and comparison of directing styles, just something to think about for future videos. :)
Yep, you can't look at the forest fight and say "this is bad, bro".
Such a shame that movie is so criminally overhated. I get that it's not super cohesive but it has fantastic action and stellar visuals - what's with the 20% Rotten Tomatoes? I've seen way worse movies get rated way, way higher.
@@Onaterdem back in 2009, the critics couldn't cope with the twins, by far the biggest backlash I saw until today. What's even funnier is that when I was a kid, I didn't even find them a big deal and never even realized they were actually racial stereotypes painted with cgi until like recently (for real)
@@doobadood Same. In my home country (or, in most countries not named "the greatest nation"), systemic skin color racism is basically non-existent, so I had no idea it was supposed to be a racist joke. Even so, I still view them as haha funny characters who had heart, and were extremely useful when it mattered. Hell, they singlehandedly took down Devastator... That's more than you can say for 90% of Autobots
Damn, Bayverse fans are chill af
@@Iloveyou-dz7mq Discussions like this have happened so many countless times that they've just become boring now
This is why I love the Bumblebee movie. The fights aren't just shakey cam and 20 different cuts in 5 seconds. They are cohesive and you can tell what is going on
Except literally NOTHİNG was going on in those fights, no one was taking any damage, they were just bouncing around, you couldnt understand who was winning in the Bee vs Dropkick fight, it was just *DINK! DINK! DINK!* until the director has enough and kills dropkick off
Dropkick was still shiny as fuck right until he got killed.
Look at the forest fight, Prime got more and more damaged as the fight went on, look at his fight with Lockdown, with Sentinel and those fights were easy as fuck to follow but OP decided to not to include these fucking fights to bolster his opinion.
evidently, you never watch Bayverse
@@orhandalegend nah those fights in bumblebee were the most expressive in the franchise, especially from a writing perspective and actually being able to see what was going on clearly for once was amazing.
Of course the whole fight is each character going "DINK", they're made of metal and were mostly punching each other, and unlike in the bay movies, the simpler bb designs have less metal junk tacked on to fly off when hit, and actually behave like giant robots that are meant to take a beating.
Like yeah, dropkick looks pretty fine till he dies, because bumblebee never pierced his armour, it literally shows that his initial method of fighting him wasn't working, and using the chain he was able to bypass all of that.
The forest fight argument doesn't even work here because it doesn't even fit the characters, bumblebee isn't the type of character that can brute force multiple opponents so instead of fighting like that and getting gradually ripped apart, he instead outwits his opponents one by one using his environment to his advantage and the movie shows that perfectly.
@@orhandalegendbumblebee showed the Decepticons as competent and durable, Bee had to kill them using tactics and agility.
In Bayverse, the fights evidently got progressively dumbed down and more gory instead of tactical and weighted. The first Bayformers has the Decepticons actually tank and dink shots of them, they needed to be put down with overwhelming firepower but even then still survived. Each Decepticon was unique and easy to distinguish.
2 and 3 are near failures in making note worthy fights with the exception of the Optimus ones (because that’s clearly where all the budget and creativity went). They are boring, dull and wannabe gore fests with explosions happening for no reason and the greyest fighters that it’s hard to even tell if they’ve been damaged or survived the shot, and the worst part is that ordinary human weapons can destroy them instantly and they are so flimsy that a mild collision will break them.
@@orhandalegend Yeah different styles lmao. You don't have to see a robot dying in one punch that's some 5 year old kid logic lol
In all fairness, the Transformers have to, y’know, transform
I’d agree with you, but the newer transformer movies are not amazing but are better and simpler in design that makes it easier to fallow
I actually love the excess and technical achievement of the bayformer films. I'm a huge animation nerd and you can just tell the animators went so hard with all those scenes. It's why I love the spider-verse films, they may seem overwhelming, but ludicrous amounts of detail is basically the biggest flex and show of skill you can do as an animator.
Even though the designs in pacific rim might be more "smooth", I love the metallic clankiness and chaos of the bayformers. They really have, without a doubt, the best and most impressive cgi in any movie, ever. Even if simpler designs would've been better for the action, I still can't help but respect the sheer craftsmanship that went into them.
The one Transformers scene that jumps into my mind is from the first film where the robot flips over the woman on the road. It likely works because of all the things you pointed out in this video: human-level reference point, clear foreground/background etc. Quite rare for Bay
rare? literally every scene does that. bonecrusher vs optimus, the entire final battle, the forest fight, all of aoe
@@calibvr I think they mean it goes on for a bit longer then usual
ironhide jumping scene is very cool
The first scene in the first movie where Blackout infiltrates and razes a US base in the desert is arguably the best scene in any and all of the Bayverse movies.
@@DanJaeger2010nice pfp
So, you arent gonna talk about the forest fight? Or Prime vs Lockdown?
You skip out on the best fight in the franchise to make the action look bad
You put Rise of the beasts in the title to mislead people because ROTB’s action was actually bad
while rotb has the right direction to make it's action scene good because of it's environment and it's colorful character
They somehow manage to make it looked like it was made in 2007 with lesser budget, and in some sequence the transformers looked like it transformed out of nowhere, and that infuriated me because TF 2007 has lesser budget than this movie
The Forest Fight and Lockdown fights are noteworthy but are exclusive because of the simple factor, Optimus Prime is in them - that automatically begs the scene to actually be shot well and choreographed with showing proper CGI damage and brawling.
Every other fight scene in 2 and 3 were complete messy shows of fake robot blood and the same grey decepticons with no personality to their fight style. There are some minor cases like the Scorponok in 2 and even Shockwave in 3 (which is still a disappointment).😊
@@speedyazi5029 but these fights should still be taken into consideration because obviously they are still two giant robots fighting
He also didn't mention the entire highway scene from the 3rd film, which is one of the coolest sequences in the film.
The forest fight is the best fight in the franchise by far and it is one of the few where you can tell exactly what's going on. I too think he's a little bit biased for not talking about it in the video.
I know right
I've never understood how people can't keep track of what's happening in bayformers
Bayformers isn't the prettiest thing but People sure just like to overhate them. Video brings up some good points but i still overall disagree with the sentiment since the robots in both films are completely different and have widly different approaches to how they feel. Bumblebee movie is a better comparison point since the action is similar awhile fixing the visual clutter.
Skill issue thats what it is, they are so used to wide shots that they cant comprehend anything else
Honest to God I can follow all the action perfectly and I don't even know how I keep track, some mysteries we're just not meant to know the answer to.
I usually just attribute it to me being autistic, *of course* I can focus on the finer details while everyone else is still trying to wrap their head around what they saw 5 seconds prior
@@vitornunes2727 i think its also coz of the character designs, they are quite complicated so i get why some ppl get lost in the action.
Massive pacific rim, and transformers fan, I think your looking at the wrong scenes and movies 💀 yea but bayverse and PR both have the ups and downs but more for bayverse. They are also barley comparable because it's robots fighting robots vs mechs fighting kaiju.
I agree on which pacific rim is a better shot easier to comprehend movie but the transformers movies have always had great action and memorable moments. The movies are filled with problems but Micheal bay knows how to crest good action sequences
Yeah there’s a reason his transformers movies made billions, if it wasn’t for engaging story then it had to have been the engaging action, you cannot deny that
Yeah the fights were always really great. The way they tore into each other and it really felt like they were taking damage. And it was always brutal too
I wonder if Guillermo del Toro would make a Transformers movie. His work on the first Pacific Rim made it seem like the robots are actually moving at the speed they would at that size. Pacific Rim 2 is just... Pacific Rim 2
Pacific rim 2? Nahhh, they gave us Atlantic Cusp.
I honestly don't remember much from either of those movies, only it was super dark and everything happened in like the middle of the ocean.
Ahahahah gold 😂@@WarFoxThunder
I NEED this now
@@charlestonjew7587 yea the dark stuff helps hide the CGI better
The bumblebee vs rampage fight is a great fight by your standards if you actually watch the whole thing and not pull 3 seconds of the fight as an example of “bad action”
I dont remember a single bad fight scene it TF Bayverse or Pacific Rim
I need shakey cam and billions of cuts during action scenes to die
Transformers '86 puts all these movies to shame.
...@@charlestonjew7587
I'd say Pacific Rim and Transformers aren't exactly too comparable, considering one of Pacific Rim's greatest praises is the weight the Jaegers bring to every fight. Metal shaking, water moving, and slowness are all what made them so grand. The Bay movies have a more high octane feeling in their fights. You'd see Prime doing acrobatics, Bumblebee using martial arts, etc.
Each filming and fighting style are meant to give different feelings to different audiences. Pacific Rim makes everything feel bigger and grander, while Transformers tries to be fast and intense.
Even in the designs for the robots, it's evident. Pacific Rim Jaegers have simple designs overall, but they show internals from here and there throughout the design that make it feel BIG and slow, it feels much more like a heavy duty machine. Transformers are more complex while retaining some humanoid designs (most, at least) to give the feeling of human combat at a larger scale, while feeling more extreme. Transformers usually feel like larger humans, while not looking like larger humans, thus giving a little alien vibe (which I'd say is pretty good design).
Bayformers fights have the Transformers chip away parts constantly to show intensity and damage, along with extreme movement to induce feeling. The shaky camera helps immensely with it too. Pacific Rim uses things we're familiar with; buildings, ships, landmarks (like say the shipyard, and the football stadium). Hell, they even use the sea and underwater geography (like the vents at the final fight) to give gigantic feeling to them, and once those things are used to give emphasis to the Kaijus and Jaegers, the intensity is inherently there because of how familiar it is to people. Transformers primarily uses the characters themselves for appeal, while Pacific Rim uses everything around it so people themselves can make their own appeal of the character they see fight. It tries to go for the human perspective.
Point here being, I wouldn't say either have bad fight scenes, just different ideologies as to how they are presented, all about one person's opinion on it.
Either way, nice analysis on the Pacific Rim scenes.
Especially when transformers were meant to fight like ninja, so they had to be unnaturally fast and stylish.
While Jeaggers were meant to be shown as gigant metal beast meant for fighting Kaiju...
But it looks like some people ignored fact just to shit on Michael Bay... 😅
The Trans and the Formerous.
"The Bayverse sequences aren't truly memorable." Bro's didn't mention the ROTF Forest Battle because he knows his video will be ruined by doing so. 💀
Ok, what funny about this is that the thumbnail. The thumbail is of knightverse Prime, which is separate from bayverse prime.
Exactly like why would he choose that? Those movies have way clearer action.
Wait, you can't follow the action? I thought that they were really easy to follow 💀
Surprisingly some people don't
@@Kuro_Nguyen yeah, it surprised me too how people these days have so much short span attention to the point when 0,8 sec pass and they forget what's the topic was even about... 😅
@@januczak3705 I thought almost all of the world can follow the action easily 🤔
It is easy to follow unless your brain just can't comprehend multiple things at once, seems that that's his issue
Fr, it's basically following the story board of a comic book. Left to right
You really just skipped the best Transformers fights scenes and showed the best Pacific Rim scenes 😂 quite an unfair comparison
I never had a problem keeping up with transformers fights
If you can’t follow action scenes in bayformers there’s something seriously wrong with you.
Devestator from transformers 2 had so many parts that one of the computers burnt down
That's hilarious, so I'll believe it
@@Kutomi1 seriously tho it actually happend
@@creepersunderdome he said he'll believe it
@@ethanphi just saying
A lot more than just one computer died I think it was around 20
Both are good action movies
Transformers: Hell yeah
Pacific rim: Hell yeah
Same same but different, but still same
Blasphemy, Bayverse is goated.
I do personally think the action scenes are great but the movies are not
Personally I've had no problem with tracking what's happening in bayformers fights lol
Neither, don't know why people have so much trouble lol. I think they are awesome
@@kyushamx5114The first one was good, 2 and 3 became incredibly sloppy, so sloppy they re-used the scorpnok scene. Crazy.
@@speedyazi5029 i think that 2 and 3 were good (maybe not writing wise, but visually) but 4 and 5 were...not good, visually or when it comes to writing. Lockdown was cool though.
@@speedyazi5029 I'm not sure what you mean by them "reusing the Scorponok scene" when he clearly survived the events of the first movie. Not to mention he was attacking Jetfire instead of humans and the camera angle was different
@@speedyazi5029 only the second was. DOTM was genuinely an improvement over ROTF.
Your comparing alien robots to robots controlled by people your quiet the genius ain't you 😂😂
I don't know man. I never had problems understanding bayformer fight scene. Some of the most chaotic scenes are usually focused on humans and the chaos going around them
bays action scenes are perfect tho
They're honestly a hit and miss, Bay knows how to make an action scene to get your adrenaline pumping but the shaking camera and constant random explosions is just nauseating. It's barely easy to follow.
He hit the mark exactly for the first film. Then the next 2 films (with the exception of Optimus fights) were unbelievably shaky and had explosions for no reason which took away from the power that the first film showed in its fights.
twitter bait farming on youtube, bro's doing it for the love of the game
@@jerrywalmart955 It ain't bait brother.
@@nexusvfx-uw2siidk man I can follow it easily
If you cant understand what's going on in a Transformers bay verse movie, you have some serious skill issues.
I head almost all movie fans say that samething you basically saying the casual audiences and critics have a "skill issue" maybe they just want to see something on the screen that's simple and understandable not everyone is fans that know who's who especially if they don't look cohesive
exactly broo
@@mmouse1301 whatever
@@mmouse1301 The best action movies can be enjoyed by people who aren't fans. John Wick and Pacific enjoyed so much success because even with their insane action sequences, you could have a great time with them even if you weren't that familiar with the material.
Bayformers its like the POV from a human caught in the mix. I dont have a problem tracking the action.
Thank you! I don't know how people haven't caught on to that yet.
Hm tbh I thought the problem with bayverse movies are their storyline and characters, not the action, cuz that's what made it popular in the first place
Yea to me the action was peak. This guy's whole argument is that he couldn't follow? Everyone i know could follow the action
@@nergi1_1 yeah i was initially confused cuz i thought he was gonna show rotb's fights or smth like "huh? Bay's action is bad? no shot"
@@kaiyon__9622 I think it's just rage bait. I mean he put rotb in the thumbnail despite only talking about the bay verse. And why else would he compare transformers to Pacific rim.
They will find something new just to cry and hate on the movies
@@nergi1_1 I can follow the action in the Bayverse. I've grown up with the movies, felt nostalgia for them, and know all the designs by heart. My parents who took me to see every one of those movies, I'm pretty sure couldn't follow most of the action.
The final fight from Rise Of The Beasts is a decent final act but I completely dislike the setting and the color palette they used. It feels so lifeless without a mesmerizing background to look at, it's not even a real area but instead a CGI volcano.
yeah it just feels and is G R A Y
What do you mean a few minutes into the movie the action starts. The first Transformers movie didn't really have any action between Autobot and Decepticon till damn near the last 10 minutes of the movie.
In fact the movie was so focused on the human characters that only fights that happened before the climax of the movie, happened almost entirely off screen. Like Bumblebee and Barricade are the first two Transformers to ever have an action scene and it's entirely off camera while we focus on Sam and Mikala fighting Frenzy.
Almost all of the action scenes we see are between humans and Decepticons which just makes the Decepticons look weak when the humans are doing all the fighting.
I mean Starscream was a menace, autobots panicked by his appearence and he nearly soloed them, however I still agree with you
12:35 when you asked this question, it made me think of the fifth element. That fight scene that correlates with the blue alien singing. So many memorable moments in that one fight scene.
We also have Chappie and Real Steel. Two pretty good robot fight movies
Robot versus Police & Robot WWE
Real Steel was great, I loved the sound editing.
he complains about the way the bay verse is done, however I disagree. pacific rim is fighting a limited amount of monsters with known abilities and strengths. in the bay verse, they are fighting a general with an army of being far smarter and far more technologically advanced. they aren't monsters, they are more human. they think tactically, and because of that its more of a war to hold their ground rather than a slug match with monsters. in nearly every shot he showed of the bay verse action, there is at least a couple more robots in the setting at any given time, whereas they keep it more 1 to 1 in pacific rim. there are hundreds, if not thousands of decepticons fighting the autobots, and they are the perspective, along with the perspective of human technology such as drones and other aerial craft. it cuts because there are multiple fronts. this isn't a one at a time, its a full frontal assault. in the words of Optimus, "a desperate mission, our final hope". pacific rim and transformers are 2 different aesthetics, that doesn't mean on is better than the other.
Sadly, my monke brain prefers the "action" in the Bayformers movies.
But Pacific Rim is an amazing movie as well.
The human perspective in Pacific Rim doesn't feel authentic to me; it seems very staged. However, the perspective in Bay's Transformers feels more genuine.
The perspective in Transformers changes every .1 seconds.
I would have never thought of someone actually sharing my issue with PR, whenever the Yeagers are fighting it seems like we are watching them from the perspective of drone/shopper or another similarly sized yeager instead in the TF movies it's from human perspective witch engrossess the viewer in the action more
@@mbarkbiba We see multiple shots from the human perspective in PR.
CLICKBAIT CLICKBAIT
I come for rise of the beast
not for bayformers
i dont really prefer any fight in both the Knightverse or Bayverse, especially since i grew up more with both and seeing both the good and bad of both.
Wish their were more of you it's always choose one side or you're a hater why can't people like both and just appreciate both for what they are
@@mmouse1301 I believe its mostly due to nostalgia. I get how people grew up with the bayverse, hell i grew up with it too, but some have to at least admit that some of the fights aren’t as good as others, and thats the same with the knightverse
@@Doc_Energon Exactly it's the same with G1 i grew up with it and the bayfilms it's great but it also has flaws just like any other thing fans need to block the nostalgia and face the bad in things they like and stop fighting other's for stating the obvious
@@Doc_Energon honestly, the not so good fights in knightverse are really starting to show in rotb, the CGI just doesnt help either.
11:44 the moment you lost all your claims 😂...come on man there are lots of memorable fight scenes in Transformers series .I bet even a Micheal bay hater have more than three scenes gone through there mind's right now
I don’t but honestly it’s because they’re hard to remember because sometimes you just have no idea what’s happening
my favorite part is motobike soldier with rpg boom heli robot
No, he's just not Bayverse or a Transformers fan. He interprets the action in the TF movies the way most people who didn't grow up with the films or have a strong love of Transformers did. That's why even though both movies were successful, the TF movies are controversial, and Pacific Rim is universally loved. The TF films are really good TF content, but Pacific Rim is a really great movie as well as a really great robot movie.
Can't say I completely agree. While I mostly agree with the individual points you're making (excessive shaky cam and a billion cuts hides the action and is boring to watch), Transformers specifically I never had issue following the action and I loved the chaos as it seemed appropriate given the context of giant robots being thrown through buildings. The only thing I remember about Pacific Rim was that it was boring.
For Pacific Rim I enjoyed it, but for different reasons than the Transformers films. Transformers are 2-3 stories tall, much faster and more agile, and way more durable, yet prone to falling apart when getting in physical confrontation. Fight scenes between them are fast, chaotic, frenetic, and destructive at a faster pace that makes it more difficult to track in the moment, but ultimately more rewarding in a way because you can always come back to the same fight and catch something you missed.
Pacific Rim is like watching a pair of skyscrapers getting into a boxing match. It's much easier to track, so my enjoyment doesn't come from all the little details but instead the insane weight of each slow strike and the show of scale you don't get with a Transformers movie. I like them for different reasons, comparing one as better than the other feels like apples to oranges for me. It doesn't mean you can't criticize either, it's just that the criticism in question needs to be anchored in a realistic comparison.
Good for you. I personally can't remember a single fight from Transformer series, with the exception of the forrest fight.
Despite myself can perfectly comprehend the actions sequence. It too messy that it look boring and forgett-able. The shaky cam is also a factor.
I like Michael Bay's style🗿
Thumbnail offended me
I felt that
same broski
So real
Honestly, a Guillermo del Toro Transformers movie would be actually God like, bad thing that the only good live action movie of Transformers will be Bumblebee, because a G.I. Joe crossover?... Man we haven't even gotten to see Megatron
If you can’t follow the Bayverse fight scenes, it’s because your eyesight is terrible, your bloodline is weak, and history will forget you.
(If you took any of the above comment seriously, it might actually apply to you.)
This guy doesnt even know how many tf films bay directed he says 4 in reality he directed 5, do some research
"the aesthetic the director brings to each movie is completely different" is just a kinder way of saying the Bayformers franchise is an inconsistent mess lol
Bayformers did a lot of things wrong, most of the fights are incomprehensible and the story isn't good.
But I'm sure we can agree that they were at least able to make one of the most iconic and memorable last stands scene in cinema. Optimus Prime vs Megatron, Starscream and Grindor had such good choreography and music it's in the same league for me as when Gypsy Danger walked up to Otachi with a fuel tanker.
peak cinema
I never had any problem with following the action scenes in transformers
I think Transformers 1-3 makes you feel like you're really at the Battlefield
I disagree, I too saw that movie as a teenager, and to my eyes everything was crystal clear, and I never had this feeling of yours about "too many action", it was paced well, I was hooked the entire film. Also, I genuinely dont get why people have problems with distinguishing robotic parts there. And I think that you cant compare transformers to pacific rim, the scope is very different, the agility of robots is different, the tone is different. So maybe you just like different kind of films? Because, again, for me that bayhem was perfect, and I was utterly disappointed with bumblebee standalone film, it was too simple and shallow, almost toyish. But but yeah, after the first 2-3 movies it was a downhill slide, littered with tons of useless gibberish.
About the other films, I agree, that with the scene from the film "6 underground" the excessive cuts and bad action direction IS a thing, but it is not the case with transformers (first three films, others are garbage). Also, that style of editing could be a good thing for that "ambulance" film, because maybe the author tried to show you the heat of the moment, where characters too cant understand their surroundings and paint a clear picture in their heads, but this should be used strictly and only when it is really necessary, I havent seen that film but it was just a side note.
I was gonna object to you until I read the "first three films, other are garbage". And I agree.
When I first saw those movies, I also can see them crystal clear. However, I have both ADHD and Autism. I can see them clear because it constant dopamine and my instinctive focus for details.
The bad screen composition, the muddy choreography, the hundreds of small robotic detailing, the boring lighting that blend backgrounds with foreground, the constant cuts. I can tell for normal regular every day person it would look like two drunkard fighting in metal junk suit. Artistically speaking, it shit. So I get why it was so disliked.
The first three didn't have that much problem.
Why would you use the new Optimus design in the thumbnail if you’re criticizing the bayformers one? Maybe change it because the new action sequences are WAY easier to follow.
Skill issue.... personally I have never failed to understand Transformers pacing especially the fight where Optimus prime was fighting Megatron and the Decepticons by himself best part ever
Glad to finally see someone else talk about this and realize it wasn't me who was wrong for not catching up with the scenes
- The comparison between Transformers and Pacific Rim is useless, it's making a comparison between Superman Returns and Man of Steel, both movies are great but they have different approaches of the medium.
You forgot a key point, Bay direct on real place with real explosions and puts the robots when in Pacific Rim, the combats are full cgi... That's completely different.
- Also, the editing in Transformers 3 is insane, it's piece of art.
And I don't understand the people who struggle to follow the action...
I do hate deep dives into movies, shows, or songs by a non professional. It’s like an analyst who covers pro sports but was never pro.
I love the Transformers movies 1-3 bc I grew up with them so I’m biased but I also love the action . It feels more realistic bc yea, giant robots fighting and knocking down buildings not caring who or who dies/gets destroyed. Only thing I don’t like from Bay is the shakey cam. The edit does take center stage & the makes it hard to follow scenes.
if you cant follow the action thats your fault bro 💀
It's not about following, it's about knowing what you're looking at🤣
@@jamaul1391 thats not what bro said, but i think you gotta get yo eyes checked if you dont even know what you looking at
Yeah wth its so easy to understand whats on the screen
4:14 you're telling me you couldnt understand or follow along with bumble bee kneeing the scorpion thing in the face then breaking its arm? 😅
Oh, dear. Someone putting down Bayformers to fellate Pacific Rim.
Look, I could very much understand the action scenes in Bayformers, Shakey-cam and all. Both films can co-exist, and this video is one of many, MANY reasons why Video Essays are pretentious garbage.
"ok so you want me to go buy some cameras for the film?"
"yeah, make sure it doesn't have image stabilisation"
"why?"
"they make better films, trust me"
As someone who took film class in high school and college, camera shake is a real technique used just all action movies, this guys take if it is very over dramatic for the sake of his point
So I can agree with a few points, like Pacific Rim does have some spectacular action, but I'd disagree with this video on the whole, especially since it is very convenient that you ignored what is widely considered the best action scene of the Bay films. I have never understood the complaint of "you can't tell what is going on" in the Bay Transformers action scenes. The only fight out of all 5 that I could kind of get that with is the Bumblebee vs Barricade fight from the 2007 film, otherwise there really isn't much of an issue following the action. That is especially true starting with Dark of The Moon and through the rest of the series since using 3-D cameras meant they needed to film the action a bit differently. Some robots have similar colors sure, but they typically have very different designs, proportions, etc that help them standout.
But as I alluded to earlier, you didn't even mention, or use clips from if I'm not mistaken, the forest battle from Revenge of The Fallen. The choreography is fantastic, everything is clear, the music is fantastic, and there are genuine stakes with Optimus Prime protecting Sam from Megatron, Starscream, and Grindor, while being outnumbered and the Decepticons fighting to kill. Hell, the fight ends in tragedy with the death of Optimus giving it emotional weight and a break from the constant action of that section of the film. Sure it is one action scene in one film out of five, but it really is an excellent one, better than any Pacific Rim action scene in my opinion, and I feel is a big strike against your point here. Just seems a bit disingenuous to me to argue against the Bay movies like this and not at least mention this particular scene.
Despite my complaints though this is a well done video even if I don't agree with everything!
I think the scene in Transformers 3 with Optimus flying into all the Decepticons cutting them down, is still a pretty awesome scene
Peakformers slander will NOT be tolerated 🗣️‼️
By peakformers, you mean, G1, Bumblebee movie, and TFP, right?
@@Gaspatim all of those are overrated, Animated is the best show
@@KaygeeFromNanotrasen they're not overrated they're rates as they deserve, worst, Bumblebee movie isn't even considered as good as it acctually is, and yes animated is goated too
@@Gaspatim to each their own
@@Gaspatim you also have to include the first 3 bay movies in that list, Animated as the distinguished gentleman mentioned, and Beast Wars. I heard Beast Wars was good
There's something that I couldn't stop thinking. Yea sure, Bay's action scenes are bad, but at least they're not the fucking train crash scene from CoD WWII 😂
idk man, the first 3 bayformers movies were my childhood and I love every single bit of it. As for the action, I think it's pretty easy to follow. Could just be because I grew up on those movies
I love both of them
Pacific Rim’s fight are easy to follow and I can feel the sheer weight and strength of the battle
While Bayverse fights are fast paced and chaotic but can be done right,like the forest battle
Bay's action scenes are so unmemorable that he actually has 5 films in the franchise aha.
All jokes aside, great video - really interesting!
Well, no, I can easily recall almost every fight scene from the first two movies, they had great action scenes. Also these robots had a ton of character to them, and action scenes emphasised their characters very well
they are not forgettable lol
I disagree. The forest fight from the 2nd film is one of the best fight scenes in film imo
The fuck? Forest battle is one of the most iconic fight scenes in cinema
Guys i think he was jokong
You don’t need to repeat Robot Fights in your title. Just write it once like this:
Good vs Bad Robot Fights
But then we have pacific rim 2 😢
no. no we dont. shhhh. we dont
0:27 “you have no idea what’s happening on screen”
uses a clip where it’s pretty clear ironhide got knocked back by a shot from blackout*
You say you remembered pacific rim and that’s why you made the video? Then how did transformers get here?
Maybe it’s because YOU REMEMBERED HOW AWESOME IT WAS!
You know you can remember something because you didn’t like it, right?
This is why I prefer the reboot movies over the Bay films. The reboot designs followed a more G1-ish approach, which may seem annoying to some, but it also means that the designs of the robots can be way more distinguishable. You can tell who's who, rather than having a majority of the Decepticon army being just gray, non-descript piles of scrapmetal. They also had designs that evoke that they are Transformers and not just "cool looking robots that look cool".
@@expertzero78 geewunners when their advanced alien robots look like advanced alien robots and not fridges with legs
@@Dingle-God1987 Let me ask you something. Can you remember or name any of the aliens in the movie 'Aliens'? The queen don't count because she's essentially Unicron by comparison and had a very distinct design.
@@charlestonjew7587 how is any of that relevant
@@charlestonjew7587 bro what?
"rather than having a majority of the Decepticon army being just gray, non-descript piles of scrapmetal" and the final battle consists of the same two models for the Terracons lol
not a fan of the reboot. Bumblebee's fine, but ROTB was just... boring. I wouldn't mind the G1 designs, hell I don't mind them in Bumblebee, even though I'm not a fan of most of them, but they just look so *lame* in Rise of the Beasts. Optimus specifically. Bay Prime will always be my definitive look for Optimus, but his G1 design is just as iconic. ROTB takes his G1 design, slaps shit gray all over it and gives him Bay Prime's face, removes any semblance of color, and calls it a day. He genuinely looks *disgusting* for the whole movie. I don't like his design in Bumblebee, but god it looks LEAGUES better than his design in ROTB. No clue why they changed it.
Bruh the EXTENDED forest fight was Golden. Surprised it wasn’t mentioned
Someone aptly said that the Bay TF movies were like watching two junk yards fighting. Never had that problem with the cartoon.
Geewunners when their advanced alien robots look like advanced alien robots and not Fridges with legs
@@Dingle-God1987the problem is that a majority of bays transformers is that on paper they look distinct and have a lot of little details. In motion theres no time to focus on the little details and they all end up looking like blobs. It isn’t that they don’t look good or are well designed, its the lack of clarity and recognizability in motion
@@Doc_Energon the Bay films are not cartoons, Bumblebee movie is also not a cartoon, yet tge Bumblebee designs are really simple and unrealistic compared to the Bay movies
@@Dingle-God1987 and how are the bumblebee designs unrealistic
@@elementalt4nick they look too humanoid, they're really boxy, they're extremely Vibrant and colourful, they look like they were built by people, they're too Smooth, they don't look like they transform, there isnt much mechanical detail, their body parts clip in some scenes, they look too goofy to be in a realistic setting, they're too Simple, the list goes on. The Bayverse designs Genuinely look like something that came from an alien planet 56 billion lightyears away, almost as if they could exist in real life, whether the Knightverse designs look like something designs by Studio executives for a blockbuster movie based on an 80's Cartoon series made to sell toys.
I saw Pacific Rim in 3D and it was by far the best 3D movie ever. Yeah, it's a big dumb monstrr movie and that's all it was trying to be. So much fun.
BRO NO WAY TRANSFORMERS FIGHTSS ARE SICK AS HELL
Imagine how much of a relief Bumblebee and Rise of the Beasts has been. There’s no shaking cameras, 17 cuts in one second, the framing let’s us see the whole robot instead of one leg here another there with smoke and sparks in the middle with slow motion.
Some prefer the bay films, guess they only want spectacle and visual noise.
But I much muuuuch prefer these newer movies.
The definition of never cook again
...
I knew soon or late you were gonna remake this video
THAT was the video that made me a fan of your content
I love this new version
One of my favourite channels made a fun essay about the first transformers, he says that Bay wanted to make a disaster movie out of the first one. Watching it again with that new perspective one can say "yeah... kinda, actually". But since the franchise continued, that approach had to be completely scratched, but the direction style remained the same, so it started to fit even less
Thats why many say that the first TF movie is the best, the vibe actually matched the way Bay makes action
12yr old me wasn't a film critic, so he loved every moment of both of those films
Bullshit, if u can't keep up w/ the action scenes in the Bayformers js say that, this isn't a "bad VS good" it's your POV.
del Toro + Mobile Suit Gundam = cinema!
Another great video, I learn more and more as I keep watching
Michael Bay's movies are like a guilty pleasure to me, they're extremely exaggerated, with over-the-top action sequences that are almost comical. The constant barrage of random explosions never fails to make me chuckle, and even though I know they're a bit ridiculous, I can't help but enjoy the sheer spectacle they provide. Nice video analysis too man, keep it up !
G1 fanboys are the only ones who can't see because they're too old
Why is all you bayfans only see G1 it's like yall can't live without mentioning them have you seen reviews? have you look up how critics and the casual audience have the same complaints?
Some people don't like the chaos. But for me, the chaos of the bay films has a special charm for me. Kinda shows the hectic and chaotic nature that combat can have.
Ngl its unfair to compare 5 movies with an extensive history and 2 movies that barely made enough money to rival the others
I love the first 3 Transformers. Classic good cheese. I can definitely remember at least 2 action scenes that will always have a place in my heart
If you don't know what's happening in a fight in the bayverse that's clearly skill issue
Skill issue? Like the person making the fights? Or the audience watching?
Skill issue? Like the person making the fights? Or the audience watching?
@@mmouse1301 the audience
That's also why the sequels to 2014's Godzilla are far more entertaining than the original. The first movie does the opposite of Bayformers. It hides and redirects away from any action. It's in King of the Monsters that we start to get more vibrant action with room to breathe between moments.
"oh I can't tell what's going on in this fight" the same old pointless discussion all over again
I will never understand this argument with Bayverse, ever since I was a kid I was always able to follow the action and had no problems with "camera shaking" or the transformers not being shaped like a box or not being colored like walking rainbows.
No offense but this comparison in the video seemed very unfair to me.
I don't see how is pointless the in character design and action what's important is clear communication, and Idk i think the have too many unnecessary parts which for me makes it difficult to discern what i'm looking at
It took me several tries to discern what was even happening in this scene 4:50 didn't even know there was another robot
Or when they graple eachother they blend into eachother
The fights tend to look better at a distance because is mostly silouettes easier to make sense of and in close ups they just look like clumps of metal, like pause the video and look at these
4:12
4:13
4:51
4:16
I've heard a lot of movie fans do the samething to other franchises. Not everyone was young to watch those movies and make it a big part of their life the majority of people just want to follow something more cohesive and not just big explosive things flying all over
@@mmouse1301 Some people just have better eyesight, I've seen you replying on a lot of comments that say the same thing. Most of these "I can tell what is happening" comments are not insulting but expressing confusion, myself included. In a way you're the one that looks bad by saying normal viewers can see less things happening on the screen than fans
@furosutokira I'm stating the complaints. And issues, none fans has been talking about the film's you can look up the reviews. You can go on any other site's and listen to what people are talking about, but whenever someone talks about something that they have an issue with, fans of something want to start an argument and name calling but I'm sorry if any of my comments sound harsh
Pacific rim is better than all Transformers movies combined.
HOWEVER, if I want to see giant robots fight, and I don’t have the cognitive ability of a 90 year old, I will always rewatch transformers for the action. The destroyer transformation scene alone surpasses anything pacific rim does VISUALLY
Micheal bay cannot film an action scene to save his life
You're gonna get almost all bayfans to wipe you out of existence for that😂 those movie's are like their ride or die
This video perfectly explains what I see when I watch movies, and why I love detecting cinematography so much, and just how much I live shot composition, pacing, shot and choreography direction, etc. Because when you direct a movie, you aren't just directing your film crew or the visuals, you're directing the audience. A film should never make you feel that even a single second takes you out of it or feels wasted.
Good video. On your last point there, I can remember a couple scenes from the OG Transformers movies, the scene at the end of the first where they get the allspark to enter into megatron's whatever matrix thing that kills him. Mainly because it was a slowed down moment with a human interacting with a flurry of metal bits. The second one I remember is in revenge of the fallen? Where Optimus prime is fighting on the Pyramids of Giza. Primarily because of the big monument.
Michael bay does a lot of dynamic upclose shots because having the camera pulled back ruins the illusion of a “realistic” robot among a live action cast. There’s a reason why the robots have a lot of random metal parts sticking out of them because the way light hits a shiny surface in CG looks fake and it gets exacerbated the bigger the object is. In the ending scene Transformers ROTF where Sam stands besides a battle damaged optimus on a plane carrier looks better than in Transformers ROTB when Noah is standing by optimus before the final battle despite them both being wide shots. Also, pacific rim has a lot of rainy night shots of the jaegers because of the same reason. This isn’t even restricted to robots either. Like in Godzilla 2014 and Godzilla KOTM the same method of rainy night shots were made because it looks more realistic.
The standout action moment from Transformers for me would be in the first film, when Prime has the axe/sword pop out of his arm and he takes out the Decepitcon. That was also framed a lot closer to Pacific Rims style also.