Hitler's best Defender?
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- Опубликовано: 20 июн 2024
- Was General Walter Model who is often referred as "Hitler's Fireman", his best defender? Was he effective in the defense? Was there a difference between static and mobile defense? Was he a micromanager? Was he good at mobilizing / "acquiring" troops? These and many more question will be covered by Daniel Feldmann, who recently published his biography about Model.
General by by vonKickass.
Photo by Military History Visualized, Pak40 from Panzermuseum Munster, 2020.
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Feldmann, Daniel: LE MARÉCHAL MODEL. Le « pompier » de Hitler. 2022.
www.amazon.com/maréchal-Model-Daniel-Collectif/dp/2262079226/
#model #ww2 #hitlersgeneral
00:00 Intro
00:15 Best Defender?
00:50 Skills & Early Career
01:45 Army Leader 1942-45
02:23 Kursk 1943
02:55 1944-1945
04:24 Not Fired - Very experienced Defender
05:04 How effective in Defense?
08:49 Scraping the Barrel?
12:05 Micro Manager?
12:36 Deploy & Forget
13:40 Sacrificing Troops?
15:34 Bagration & Antwerpen
I thought this was going to be about the Pak 40....
PAK 75/40
Me too .
Stung iii😊
Same
Pakbait
Model held Zhukov at Rzhev and again evaded a heavy defeat to him and Konev in North Ukraine. Held Montgomery at Arnhem (when 1st Airborne’s planes flew in sight of Model’s HQ in Oosterbeek - west of Arnhem). As head of Army Group B he was alerted to Operation Market Garden as paratroops started their first advanced drops, a very different scenario to the communication chaos the June 6th paratroop operation had caused in Normandy. He was lucky, but also organised & astute. I don’t know if he was aware of Soviet “Deep Battle” theory, but he did develop a troop deposition that made it harder for that concept to succeed. This might be why he had a good defensive reputation.
Well, I don’t think he did anything that any other GeneralOberst and especially any GeneralFeldMarshall would have not done. But if he was “good at defense” it only partially redeems the fact that he was awful at offense that is for sure!
Thank you Bernhard. One interesting aspect is also that Model was the only officer in the Wehrmacht to command 2 army groups at the same time (Center and North Ukraine, the last one he commanded through his deputy).
Another thing, Model also stopped the Soviets, actually the 2nd Tank Army, dead on its tracks in front of Warsaw while using 4 Panzer Divisions, destroying 550 tanks out of 800 in just a few days in the beginning of August 1944, although the Soviets could be exhausted by this point, having covered 450 miles from Orsha to Warsaw in six weeks.
450 miles in 6 weeks
450 miles in 42 days = 10.71 mile per day
And for normal measurements people: 17.24 kilometres per day
Is the commonly held belief that Gotthard Heinrici was the premier defensive Wehrmacht general false? His record appears to hold up to the test so far.
I would also appreciate some academic analysis of this question from a German perspective.
However, I suspect that Heinrici's relative lack of WWII battle experience, compared to Model, will hold him back from the very top of the Wehrmacht defensive generals' rankings.
One question - I do know that Heinrici made good use of the "false front" maneuver (timing a move back from the official "main line of defense" to a well prepared second main line of defense, if possible, the night before the expected Soviet attack would take place. Did Model ever use the false front maneuver?
There's a book titled the oder front 1945. It's kind of dry, but fascinating. It's tells the complete story of army group vistula.
offtopic but respect to Mr Feldmann for taking on the Patton Myth.
Thank you, Bernhardt. I always appreciate your insight regarding subjects like this. As always, context is critical.
Really good interview. Mr. Feldmann had some very interesting viewpoints.
That must be why Hitler loved him; Model did not follow Wehrmacht standards and practices which his master also hated. Downside is that most of those policies and recommendations were time tested and well thought out, so disaster after disaster. I feel like Model created kampfgruppe so that his master would not know what was going on at any one time, particularly when it was time to pull back. I found it particularly interesting that for Kursk he seemed to know the Red Army had prepared a slaughterhouse and held back the precious panzers while sacrificing the infantry.
The North wasn't strong enough and was immediately heavily counterattacked.
Kampfgruppen wasnt something unique to Model, all German divisions had ad hoc formations on an operation-by-operation basis throughout the war
They could be of various sizes, some were bigger than division size. It just means what it translates to mean - "battlegroup". @@TheHistoricalReview
@@karlheinzvonkroemann2217 they were sub-divisional in size the vast majority of the time, exceptions aside
I've wargamed WW2 and the Wehrmacht to death over 50+ years. It only took one Kampfgruppe to be div+ in size for my statement to be correct and it happened way more that once. For whatever that's worth and of course they weren't anything like unique to Model or any Commander. They were quite common formations and usually task specoifice and combined arms ariented. I think we're on othe same page here.@@TheHistoricalReview
Hitler's best defender was Heinrici. Another separate issue is whether Hitler understood it.
kick out Hitler in early 1944, put Heinrichi on Ost front North, Model on South and Manstein on western front I bet they would do miracles ...
Since you usually cover the questions from engineering standpoint, the title and thumbnail of the video kind of puzzled me before I clicked😅
😂
Somehow I feel like having a Deja-vue. Wasn't this interview published under different title ? Something about Hitler's fireman ?
Model abandoning encircled units to fend for themselves ironically sounds Soviet.
Bought the book in a library in Bayonne. Good read.
Very good talk about Model. A question for the author and guest about the 9th army situation; having once commanded it could Model have thought that its current officer crop would be more individualistic in their own leadership style like himself and that they would breakout of the pocket of their own volition? Also could a previous idea of what the 9th consisted of have had an influence on his thoughts about its fighting capabilities?
Thank you for this one.
Model, as any senior German General would have been well aware of the logistics, and manpower issues Germany had. Launching recue missions was, in practical terms, a waste of resources.
Look at Manstein at Stalingrad. The Sixth Army, by the time Manstein had begun organizing an attempt, wad already past any realistic capability to attempt a breakout from their end. Manstein never had the resources to mount a realistic rescue. All of the resources used to try, were a complete waste.
Model is simply being pragmatic. If you can breakout and reach me, do so, otherwise, I have other concerns.
It's a cold calculus, but, for the Wehrmacht, a realistic one.
Material wise yes, but the effect it would have on morale can extremely effective. It would mean a lot for the poor guys that's fighting a losing battle that someone will atleast try to save you.
@@TheHazmate I don't, in general, disagree.
Having spent decades in wargaming, some in board gaming and some in video simulation, defensive strategy and tactics I have found to be vastly misunderstood. A commander of genius level intelligence who understands it can cause massive losses to an enemy over months and years
I recognize the outline, before starting, I say it's Walter Model. Let's see if I am right.
Do you know this video made me realize that just understanding what is an effective defense is a complicated question.
I think there's a basic misunderstanding about Model's postwar description of "The Fuhrer's Fireman". The title originally referred to Hitler's tendency to use Model like a fireman, not Model's presumed effectiveness in that role. That connotation got layered on later by people reading too deeply into the metaphor.
Soooooo...are we also going to get a video about the PAK gun too?
Because I thought from the thumbnail that this was going to be about whether AT guns were actually effective/efficient in the defence.
Like how I keep hearing that Germany was wasting resources building AA guns & ammo instead of building fighter aircraft.
Uhm I covered it 2 years ago, here is the link: ruclips.net/video/03NzGQ_5jsw/видео.html
I thought it would be Herman Balck .
Der Vergleich von Leistungen verschiedener Generäle ist dadurch erschwert, dass faktisch keine zwei Generäle jemals in dieselbe Situation gelangen. Bestenfalls sind sie ähnlich. Die Effektivität der Verteidigung hängt auch stark davon ab, ob der Gegener aggressiv agiert oder versucht eigene Verluste zu vermeiden. Aus diesen Gründen können Generäle je nach Einsatz an der Ost- oder Westfront unterschiedlich gut in der Verteidigung erscheinen. Model hat aber mit Sicherheit genug aus seinen Truppen herausgeholt um als guter General zu gelten.
Jo und der Umstand, dass es in der Wehrmacht über 3000 gab: ruclips.net/video/L6PtPEYOGJw/видео.html
That is interesting, thanks
My guess would be Kesselring.
Half saw the thumbnails while scrolling and thought it was that nazi from Hellboy.
I was super confused why Military History not Visualized would be talking about him.
If anything, he was a model general.
I own the same Czech shirt! Very nice
Was the tribe member's book objective?
✌
Field Marschal Model not being too concerned about encircled units or units facing annihilation was likely a key factor that he was liked or at least relied on more by Hitler and high command, as such attitude was in line with their overall doctrine of buying time with their troops and materials rather than conserving units. Model squeezed every bit of blood and bullet from his men to fight the Soviet and Allies, where inflicting losses on the enemy was more important than preserving his own units, something that was in Hitler's bigger strategy in the second half of Germany's defensive war where many German units were expected to be sacrificed to accomplish their tasks, such as holding Brest and many ports in France, or the "Fortress" cities and town set up to delay Soviet advance in last year of war.
True, on the point of being willing to defend with max stubbornness and maximize blood letting for both his enemy and his own men, but not so much on the encirclement part: how exactly do you propose he could have saved all the troops trapped in the Minsk pocket for example? Not a chance at all, nor in most of the cases for a supposed relief attempt, the resources and manpower just werent there for a realistic chance, let alone weakening own forces even further.
The best defender was Napolean, because he only did it once. Lost his whole army, but like Model, it didnt bother him that much....
Model and Napoleon shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath 🤐
@@karlheinzvonkroemann2217because Model is better
@@einfachignorieren6156heresy
I do not respect Dr. Daniel Feldman as a historian.
I hate these questions and I hate these descriptions, i.e 'the best defender'. Can you even compare units from the start of the war with those at the end? Of course not.
More important perhaps is, are the commanders competent, do the subordinates have faith in them, do they keep their cool when everything is falling apart, do they react well to the enemy's actions?
please do a video on these
(this is a copy and paste list for a few channels)
units and tactics/evaluation of loadouts of troops (from different jobs (and other branches)
like the 82 snd 101 airborne units
or infantry tank units, (or when tanks were assigned a infantry unit like i think earlier war Russia then all tanks were formed into there own units wich meant the infantry no longer knew the true strength of there own tanks but alowed tank units to fight more efficiently)
the tank doctrine of countries
evaluation of tank veiw ports
evaluation of tanks/armored vehicles of different countries
evaluation of aircraft types of different countries,
different between navil and army/air force fighters
logistics units of the axes and allied powers in ww2
ww1 estern front tactics
Russian Civil war tactics and strategies
navil ship cross sections (all the rooms and how it all works)
evaluation of types of ships
or evaluation of navil warfare (or just dedectsded videos on ww1 and ww2 navil doctrine as theres stuff out there on other times of history)
air craft carrier strike group formations exsamples (from different countries)
ancient persan ships,
ancient veneti ships (gauls that fought ceaser)
ships used by genoa and the vernesain republic
the vernesain republic government
all sailing ships, (i know theres many on yt but some contradict each other and i think theres more left out)
ancient macenean greek and trojan troops
2b9 vasilyok morter
tactics used so far in the Ukraine war,
better for squads to be 2 teams of 5 or 3 teams of 3,
and probably the easiest, better to keep troops well feed or starved like an animal
how dose age effect comsnders eg napoleon got older so took less risks,
ancient urban warfare
ww2 tactics in Asia, tactics in the Chinese age of warlords, (and Chinese civil war)
tactics in the ruso jap war
cold war navil tactics,
Korean war tactics,
strange tactics or unque battles from the American war of independence and America civil
how were 17th centry sailing ships build
types of bombs lunched by drones
comands given on sailing ships (like ease the sheets and get ready to chine, or slack n beases, basically things you hear movie capitns say)
why did the nazis never return (or a video on best occupations)
why did the Japanese empire fall, dont just say "America" like things like how there army and navy argued alot
alot more on the Polynesians and māori, but please learn pronounceations if you do this
stop asking for this stupid
This is a lot of content , good brain on you and you seem to want to use it. I would give a channel you made a fair shot if you wanted to make it.
@@scottl9660 yup, ive been debating on making my own channel, ive done clips and taking notes but thats all,
Been debating on making actual videos
The title is a bad choice
Dr. Daniel who?
Feldmann. Two Ns. Why?
Oy vey
By Hitler's standards he was: wasted the lifes of his men and sticked to static defence.
Model did everything worse than Manstein did, or would have done in his situation. Especially showing off his incompetence at offensive operations when he commanded the northern pincer during Operation Zitedelle. He got stuck on the 4th Soviet Ring of defense. Manstein broke through all 8! And still managed to hold the II Waffen-SS Panzer Korps in reserve to exploit his success after the breakthrough. Which he uses to destroy the 5th Guards Army (with other elements of the Stavka Reserve [the Steppe Front]). Had anything similar to what happened in the South also happened in the North then victory would likely have followed. Or at least a massive operational victory with massive Soviet loses inflicted before the Massive Soviet Counter-Attacks began (I.e. operation Kutuzov and Rumyantsev).
Promo sm
While I agree that trivial 'Rock Star' rankings of generals is not good history however the notion that it is wrong OR impossible to judge a generals skills is simply ridiculous. Model was clearly a general who learned to be a very effective 'defensive general' and his record PROVES this. Judging a general's skills, is not, nor should it be, a moral judgement. Manstein and Rommel are great examples of 'attacking generals' and I would mention 'smiling' Albert Kesselring as another great defensive general. Model was indeed a great defensive general. He was always defending in desperate situations, some hopeless. I do NOT ignore morals, in general, which is why my favorite Ace will always be the humane Marseille over the Nazi Hartman.
We are talking about the fact that there were more than 3000 generals and most people can’t even name 30, yet will tell you that X was the best. See my video best German general on my main channel.
First I did not state 'who is the best' or who is #1 but that different generals (who are known) are known for various reasons. Whether because like Manstein etc they wrote history themselves (used to excuse or for self promotion) but the 3000 generals you mention are mostly not known for the simple reason that most of them were not WORTH remembering. When Montgomery chastised most of his fellow British generals as 'incompetents' his feelings on this were matched by Patton's similar comments on most US Generals. In his diary, when he first met Montgomery at his 'school for generals' in Tripoli ( made to teach the commanders 'their business'), he rightly thought that that took priority over training the soldiers. Despite the myths and reality of their rivalry, Patton stated that he found Montgomery to be 'wonderfully conceited, a man and the first commander I have met in this war who really knows his stuff'. Later it would be his so called 'enemy' Monty who INSISTED first on keeping him out of trouble in England until the break out but then to be made commander of the US third Army in France over Eisenhower and Bradley's desire to dump him. Despite his self propaganda Manstein certainly was a great if not always perfect commander as he proved repeatedly and Model too as a defender. Making judgements is part of the work of history no matter how hard it might be to be precise in judgements in practice.@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized
Hitlers Best Defender? My old pal Manslow.