Well, RUclips has proven its worth this evening. I was trying to find my own video, and this one came up and completely pulled me in. This is the best information I've learned all day, week, month, or even all year. Thanks, HRD! -Robbie W1RCP
I should mention that there are other torroids like 61 and 52 that are Nickle zinc. I just happened to know that these were 43. But regardless, they're good for efhw's with the info on here 😃. Thanks for the comment.. I'm going to pin this so others see the are more than just type 43 for efhw. My lack of clarity in the video. Have e a good one! Nice hearing from you!
Wow, that was PROPER interesting. I have seem folks testing toroid's by winding wire and measuring them but this is SUCH a simple way to test them. Got to subscribe now, just for that 🙂
I do not understand why manufacturers don't mark toroids with brand, material and partnumber. At work it was way to easy to mixup different toroids that looks thesame.
What a great video. Never thought of figuring out the value like that. I usually put about 4 turns of wire through the core and check the impedance. At a hamfest, I always have a pocket size VOM with me. Barry, KU3X
Great test procedure. I already knew I could make and have made a singled banded EFHW with an iron powder, (no harmonics are available as a bonus, with these things). But so far I have been lucky with the ferrite mixes I buy, Or have I? Now I can easily recheck my spares. Thanks for the tip.
Well, for starters, you didn't mention what the frequency range is of the EFHW antenna you plan to feed. There are various toroid compounds (mixes) that work much better or much worse for various frequency ranges. And of course, they must also be selected and sized for the power they are intended to handle or they can easily get cooked and perhaps cook your final amplifier in doing so. Put simply, a resistance check just doesn't tell you what you need to know. Four minutes won't explain it. I'd suggest new hams either just buy the exact materials recommended for their build by an experienced ham, and build with that, so it will work when they're done, or if they want to play with unknown toroids, first spend several hours reading up on various powdered iron and ferrite materials from several sources, including Amidon, Micro Metals, Palomar Engineers, etc. Then watch several of the longer RUclips videos on the subject of toroids for both RF transformers and for RF suppression. They should also buy an inexpensive ($50) NanoVNA to make measurements with. This is a commitment in time and a few bucks, but if they do these things they won't be wasting a whole LOT of time playing around with unknown toroids made of of unknown materials, which is what I did at first because there is a whole lot you need to know to get any value at all out of unknown toroids. To get toroids to do their job, half a dozen different things have to be right, and you can't just randomly do every one of half dozen things right. And unless you understand what those things are and can measure them you will never know what's wrong.
Edited because I re read this post. Thanks for the information. This wasn't a video regarding what mix you and use for what frequency range, though that should be coming soon. Feel free to shoot me an email to set up a time to come on the channel and provide more information to the viewers. They enjoy understanding the details in a way which is easy to understand . That said, testing with a multimeter will tell you if you have RF grade material. Yes this is a 5 minute video which doesn't explain everything, long videos that cover too much information can be hard to follow, so why not break it up into smaller sections. If I'm still wrong about the infinite resistance in an rf grade mix, I'd be glad to relay the information back to the engineer of 40 years who taught me. Again, feel free to shoot me an email if you'd like to come on and talk more about these subjects
That was a great method. Thanks. I build Baluns/Ununs, so I'm always looking for inexpensive Toroids at swap meets etc. I've seen other testing methods that seemed complicated and use test equipment I don't have (nor want to spend a bunch of money on). Thanks...73...Hugh...KN6KNB
I trust everyone. I even get a good deal on medication down on the corner. Comes in plastic wrap but the guy seems trustworthy. He sure has a lot of girlfriends, lucky guy.
I bought a pair on Amazon. None they sold had a material description that I could differentiate. Mine are 2.4x1.4x0.5 "toroid iron core" and my readings are 6k and 14k ohms. Seems like a big difference for identical toroids. I got them to make a balun. KW4AY 73
@@HAMRADIODUDE The final test is how good you can get your SWR in the field at the transformer feed point. Toroids are very sensitive to high SWRs (over 2:1 at the feed point) and heat buildup due to a impedance mismatch can destroy your transformer. So, get the SWR down to at least 2:1 at the input to the transformer. Your tuner will not help here.
Ha ha, Sesame Street "Only one of these toroids belongs, can you guess which one?". Grabbing my multimeter now and running to the junk box... All we need now is a quick (quicker than just making a 1:64 transformer...) method of determining type 43 from types 52 and 61 etc.
A new ham should follow your advice at 2:37 in and buy your toroids from a known source. I bought the toroids for my EFHW 49:1 UNUN directly from Amidon.
Ferrite will not conduct. No need to cover it with tefl9n tape unless you just want to protect it from the windings. Powdered iron will conduct if the windings contact it. T240-43 works fine as an EFHW from 3.5 to 30 MHz. Cheers.
Ahh. Okay. I read the explanation on ferrite shop in EU. They said that #31 is good for 1:1 BalUn, but #43 for impedance transformer. #31 has 3000 ohms-cm, #43 has 1x10^5 ohms-cm. That is huge difference.
@@JayN4GO. The only effective way to check a toroid at a swap meet is to wrap it with 3-4 turns of magnet wire and test the inductance with an LCR meter against a known inductance for the types you are interested in. Most LCR meters used in the field measure inductance at 10KHz and inductance changes significantly from 10KHz to 30MHz or higher. However, for example, an FT240-43 toroid wrapped 4 turns generates approximately 17.2uH at 10KHz but an unusable T200-2 iron core toroid measures only .19uH at 10KHz. Most hams use the FT240-43 toroid for the EFHW transformer. Just because a toroid had DC resistance does not mean it is suitable for a EFHW transformer.
Actually type 61 ferrite is an effective material for 20 meters and above, where it gets even more desirable. It can do 40 but not as well as 43. it can be differentiated because it is just a slightly lighter shade gray which is discernible. Better than 43 for the high bands IMHO., 73, eddieson kg6zbn
A good Content and a very important Point to know about it before you simply buy any Toroid to build your own Anntenne. I lthat know the Differance in Pferformance between a good Toriod and a shitty Troid I strongly recommand you guys to give thiis Video right here a fatass THUMBS UP. 👍If you don't thumbs up...well then just have fun playing around with the crappty Toroids and keep dreaming about to become a loud Station. Thx for this great Video, Sean. Keep up your good work. 73 de YFUG 💯🎸🎸🎸👍🙋♂
Such a simply thing yet no one knows this. Also if you want you can use a nano vna to test for the perfect one, for you current project. Record the data for to reduce your search time next time.
Excellent video, Sean - brief, concise, highly educational, and extremely relevant to those seeking to improve their antenna system. Thanks for taking the time to gather this information and sharing it with your subscribers. de K3SDM
Material------common mode choke------common mode frequency range-----impedance transformer------1:1 Balun:
#31 3,5 - 100 MHz 1,5 - 50 MHz - 1,5 - 30 MHz
#43 25 - 600 MHz 2 - 60 MHz 2 - 50 MHz 2 - 30 MHz
#52 150 - 1000 MHz 4 - 150 MHz 1 - 60 MHz 1 - 60 MHz
#61 200 - 2000 MHz 5 - 200 MHz 15 - 200 MHz 10 - 100 MHz
#77 200 kHz - 10 MHz 100 kHz - 10 MHz 0,5 - 8 MHz 1 - 8 MHz
Thanks! pinned!
@@HAMRADIODUDE Thanks. Happy new year! 73
Only two numbers to remember, 31 and 43. 🤞
Finally an answer to my question. Im a new ham building my first antenna. I have been asking this question and searching high and low. Thanks.
I had no idea testing toroids could be this easy... Thanks Dude!
It's not!
Thanks! Quick and easy test and you didn't take 20 minutes to explain it.
Glad it helped!
Well, RUclips has proven its worth this evening. I was trying to find my own video, and this one came up and completely pulled me in. This is the best information I've learned all day, week, month, or even all year. Thanks, HRD! -Robbie W1RCP
Thank you. Getting one step closer to understanding and choosing the correct toroids
My pleasure!
Excellent. I've made a number of EFHW's and while I knew you wanted to use 43 mixtures, I never really knew how to check them so easily.
I should mention that there are other torroids like 61 and 52 that are Nickle zinc. I just happened to know that these were 43. But regardless, they're good for efhw's with the info on here 😃. Thanks for the comment.. I'm going to pin this so others see the are more than just type 43 for efhw. My lack of clarity in the video. Have e a good one! Nice hearing from you!
Same here!
Great article!! I can sure use this in my box of mixed toroids that are not labeled!!
Thanks, as a new ham I never knew there was a difference. Or which one I needed.
I have a 9:1 box and want to build a 10m mono band efhw. Would I be better off with a 49:1 unun? I want it to be as short as possible.
also recommend TRX Labs balun videos. You can test with a NanoVNC to know for certain.
Wow, that was PROPER interesting. I have seem folks testing toroid's by winding wire and measuring them but this is SUCH a simple way to test them. Got to subscribe now, just for that 🙂
For about the same price as that multimeter you can probably get a nanoVNA which will give you a much more complete measurement
Straight and to the point. Thanks for sharing and 73!
Thanks for showing your appreciation!
Thank you very much, my end fed antenna worked very poor and I suspected the toroid material was not right but this video fixed my doubts 100%
Excellent! My Pleasure!
I do not understand why manufacturers don't mark toroids with brand, material and partnumber. At work it was way to easy to mixup different toroids that looks thesame.
😂 am playing today with 3 of them 😂 not easy but step by step to lower swr;)
What a great video. Never thought of figuring out the value like that. I usually put about 4 turns of wire through the core and check the impedance. At a hamfest, I always have a pocket size VOM with me.
Barry, KU3X
Great test procedure. I already knew I could make and have made a singled banded EFHW with an iron powder, (no harmonics are available as a bonus, with these things). But so far I have been lucky with the ferrite mixes I buy, Or have I? Now I can easily recheck my spares. Thanks for the tip.
That was very helpful!
Thanks!!
A lot of information for such a short video thanks
I can see it now, multimeters lined up for days at the toroid tables lol. Seriously though great stupid easy to check for the good stuff, nice work!
Thank you, I learned something new. There is often paint on this toroids but I guess I can scratch that off to be able to do measuring
You can just scratch a little piece, as I understand
Wow, who knew? Valuable information.
Now that's a real important INFO, thanx a lot for that.....73s GL
Happy it helps! Have a great one
I bought a few mystery Toroids. Now I’m gonna check them. Thanks Dude!!🎉
I'm surprised I didn't see you at the fest or you didn't see me rather. I may have seen you, I wouldn't know :D
@@HAMRADIODUDE cave city, ky ??
@@HAMRADIODUDE they are like the 31 type, chokes it is.
And I thought I knew everything! Thanks! Will be getting out the ohm eater every time now just to make sure.
It saved me a lot of heartache and answered some questions
Thank you, btw
Terrific info. Great work.
I learn something new! I didn't know you can check them this way! Thanks!
My Elmer passed a bunch of information to me and said he knew I would do my part to teach others, and I'm happy to have helped
THANKS ALWAYS WANTED TO KNOW
my pleasure
Wow, thanks for the info before me making a mistake.
Great tip.
Хвала!
Thank You!
A toroid for passing RF, you don't want it to be lossy, a toroid for STOPPING RF, it actually helps if its lossy
Well, for starters, you didn't mention what the frequency range is of the EFHW antenna you plan to feed. There are various toroid compounds (mixes) that work much better or much worse for various frequency ranges. And of course, they must also be selected and sized for the power they are intended to handle or they can easily get cooked and perhaps cook your final amplifier in doing so. Put simply, a resistance check just doesn't tell you what you need to know. Four minutes won't explain it.
I'd suggest new hams either just buy the exact materials recommended for their build by an experienced ham, and build with that, so it will work when they're done, or if they want to play with unknown toroids, first spend several hours reading up on various powdered iron and ferrite materials from several sources, including Amidon, Micro Metals, Palomar Engineers, etc. Then watch several of the longer RUclips videos on the subject of toroids for both RF transformers and for RF suppression. They should also buy an inexpensive ($50) NanoVNA to make measurements with. This is a commitment in time and a few bucks, but if they do these things they won't be wasting a whole LOT of time playing around with unknown toroids made of of unknown materials, which is what I did at first because there is a whole lot you need to know to get any value at all out of unknown toroids.
To get toroids to do their job, half a dozen different things have to be right, and you can't just randomly do every one of half dozen things right. And unless you understand what those things are and can measure them you will never know what's wrong.
Edited because I re read this post.
Thanks for the information. This wasn't a video regarding what mix you and use for what frequency range, though that should be coming soon.
Feel free to shoot me an email to set up a time to come on the channel and provide more information to the viewers. They enjoy understanding the details in a way which is easy to understand .
That said, testing with a multimeter will tell you if you have RF grade material.
Yes this is a 5 minute video which doesn't explain everything, long videos that cover too much information can be hard to follow, so why not break it up into smaller sections.
If I'm still wrong about the infinite resistance in an rf grade mix, I'd be glad to relay the information back to the engineer of 40 years who taught me.
Again, feel free to shoot me an email if you'd like to come on and talk more about these subjects
I do agree having a VNA is a good investment and can tell you more.
@@HAMRADIODUDE may I know have video to teach how to test toroid via VNA ? Thanks
great to know. Thanks
good info
Thanks for this good experiment! "73"
Thank you sir for the educational video. I definitely learned today.
Thank you
Excelente! Muchas Gracias! 73
De nada!
Good stuff
That was a great method. Thanks. I build Baluns/Ununs, so I'm always looking for inexpensive Toroids at swap meets etc. I've seen other testing methods that seemed complicated and use test equipment I don't have (nor want to spend a bunch of money on). Thanks...73...Hugh...KN6KNB
Nice. I didn't know that. Great knowledge Motters M7TRS 73 👍🏻
Thank you
Thanks, I am new ham. Nice share
I trust everyone. I even get a good deal on medication down on the corner. Comes in plastic wrap but the guy seems trustworthy. He sure has a lot of girlfriends, lucky guy.
Lol
haha, what is the resistance of the medication?💊😄
@@DonzLockz All I know is I shake and roll around naked if I don't get down there every day.
@@1958johndeere620 😄😄😄👍
There is no substitute for height or is it length?
I bought a pair on Amazon. None they sold had a material description that I could differentiate. Mine are 2.4x1.4x0.5 "toroid iron core" and my readings are 6k and 14k ohms. Seems like a big difference for identical toroids. I got them to make a balun. KW4AY 73
thats awesome, now I'm smarter! Thank you Mr Dude!👍👍👍
Thank you
Well explained!
At 2:10 please clarify, you said "20K for rf grade Zinc", I guess it should have been infinity ♾️ or very high resistance.
Nice. I did not know this.
I use only type 43 toroids for 49:1 transformers.
Yeah I like 43. I am going to play with 52 and 61 also
@@HAMRADIODUDE The final test is how good you can get your SWR in the field at the transformer feed point. Toroids are very sensitive to high SWRs (over 2:1 at the feed point) and heat buildup due to a impedance mismatch can destroy your transformer. So, get the SWR down to at least 2:1 at the input to the transformer. Your tuner will not help here.
@@hankhamner3671 I'll make a video with some results soon.. good call
Are both Manganese-zinc ferrites and Nickel-Zinc Ferrites magnetic?
As a new HAM this is awsome!... thanks for the info... /73 KD9RUG
Thanks Mike. Dave is a great Elmer
Ha ha, Sesame Street "Only one of these toroids belongs, can you guess which one?". Grabbing my multimeter now and running to the junk box...
All we need now is a quick (quicker than just making a 1:64 transformer...) method of determining type 43 from types 52 and 61 etc.
Nice!
Thanks
A new ham should follow your advice at 2:37 in and buy your toroids from a known source. I bought the toroids for my EFHW 49:1 UNUN directly from Amidon.
Ferrite will not conduct. No need to cover it with tefl9n tape unless you just want to protect it from the windings. Powdered iron will conduct if the windings contact it. T240-43 works fine as an EFHW from 3.5 to 30 MHz. Cheers.
What was the mix of the other 3?
Hello,
what is the resistance of a type 31 please.
If anyone can try and tell me I would be very grateful.
73' F4JPC
Hi Sean,
Great video. Very useful info. Stay safe. 73 WJ3U
Thank you Don. Wishing you all the best
Them other 3 ain't "Ape Approved" TOE-Roids Son! Good gouge! Nice coverage Sean! 73 - KF6IF
Thank you!
Is he correlating measured core resistance with mix number, essentially?
At 3:05 shouldn't that be FT240? F like in Ferrite Toroid.
I can't remember this far back but - www.electronicparts-outlet.com/en/home/5957-amidon-t240-43-ferrite-toroid-balun.html
FYI it’s Manganese Zinc, not Magnesium.
Thanks. I mentioned that in the description but it is always good to have the reminder. 73
I want to build a transformer in 50khz range for a half-bridge configuration. The output will be in 100 volts. Should I be using Ni-Zn or MnZn?
Very good info… They don’t taste different, do they? LOL! 73!
Ones a little bit bitter. Taste and let me know 😎😃
Will the swr change as well using wrong toroid even if the windings are ok?
What about T-240 #31 toroid? It is much better for 160m band.
Ahh. Okay. I read the explanation on ferrite shop in EU. They said that #31 is good for 1:1 BalUn, but #43 for impedance transformer. #31 has 3000 ohms-cm, #43 has 1x10^5 ohms-cm. That is huge difference.
Can you distinguish them with a strong magnet?
Yes
@@JayN4GO. The only effective way to check a toroid at a swap meet is to wrap it with 3-4 turns of magnet wire and test the inductance with an LCR meter against a known inductance for the types you are interested in. Most LCR meters used in the field measure inductance at 10KHz and inductance changes significantly from 10KHz to 30MHz or higher. However, for example, an FT240-43 toroid wrapped 4 turns generates approximately 17.2uH at 10KHz but an unusable T200-2 iron core toroid measures only .19uH at 10KHz. Most hams use the FT240-43 toroid for the EFHW transformer. Just because a toroid had DC resistance does not mean it is suitable for a EFHW transformer.
And the t240-61 ?
What would you like to know?
Actually type 61 ferrite is an effective material for 20 meters and above, where it gets even more desirable. It can do 40 but not as well as 43. it can be differentiated because it is just a slightly lighter shade gray which is discernible.
Better than 43 for the high bands IMHO., 73, eddieson kg6zbn
The toroid on the left 0:40
SURELY these days they could be labeled for pennies, I think it's ridiculous
That is only the first test.
That's correct. There's a lot of tests you can do with toroids
Take a Multimeter to the swap meet.
👍
I take it you learned the hard way ? Me too. Although with ferrite beads from Amazon. Junk
Very informative! 73 de ai4ot
Manganese
A good Content and a very important Point to know about it before you simply buy any Toroid to build your own Anntenne. I lthat know the Differance in Pferformance between a good Toriod and a shitty Troid I strongly recommand you guys to give thiis Video right here a fatass THUMBS UP. 👍If you don't thumbs up...well then just have fun playing around with the crappty Toroids and keep dreaming about to become a loud Station. Thx for this great Video, Sean. Keep up your good work. 73 de YFUG 💯🎸🎸🎸👍🙋♂
Thank you, Uncle. 👊
0:13 Dude, I hope you are doing it offshore, because it looks like hazard :D
Too many variables to make this method of any use. MHO
Thanks. What suggestions do you have?
Testem
Such a simply thing yet no one knows this. Also if you want you can use a nano vna to test for the perfect one, for you current project. Record the data for to reduce your search time next time.
@@echo-hotel hmm I will have to look into this! Thanks!
Great video, haven’t learned something that valuable for a minute! 73 KI7WJP
I'm honored to hear that helped
very eductional video...thx...73 deYO2LQF
good experiment -G7UNF
Ah real eye opener.vu2ft
Excellent video, Sean - brief, concise, highly educational, and extremely relevant to those seeking to improve their antenna system. Thanks for taking the time to gather this information and sharing it with your subscribers.
de K3SDM
Thank you
Really useful check, thanks