The Big Fight: Is Karl Marx Still Relevant?
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
- On this episode of The Big Fight, we remember all that has happened 200 years since the birth of German philosopher and economist Karl Marx, considered the father of communism. It's time to take stock of a couple of things. Was Marxism wrong? Was Karl Marx wrong? Has it failed completely? The Left movement in India is facing the worst time that it has faced in memories. Is it a permanent decline for left ideology?
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I wish there could be conversations like this on the news in the US. Sadly Marxist is only ever used as an insult in the mainstream media.
@Varad thank you for the info
I agree. But communists are to blame for that( Throw in US for some extra credit)
Communism is still relevant and it will be relevant. Remember 2008 Economical Crisis.
No more relevant...it has become hoax now...
@@ess.z.i117 Nope it is relevant than ever before conservatives and right wing is causing climate crisis
@@ess.z.i117 still relevant👍🏻
Thats BS!
Marx's analysis of capitalism is still relevent,,, stalinist communism was authoratarian in nature, so collapsed
@@swanita9568 bruh! Why the fuq should anyone read Misses? He was a douchebag.
even though stalin's communism was quite not so good he didnt kill 20 million. most of the deaths of communism is hugely exaggerated or the numbers are pulled out of the asses of the ones who estimated it (eg:- counting unborn children, nazis (nazis are not socialists its an outright lie), imperialism of USA)
When I saw the title "Is karl Marx still relevant", I thought they would talk about his ideology and if its implementation is working or turning out to be disastrous but here the panel has restricted themselves on debating to the future of left parties in India. I personally believe that the left ideology lives in every struggling heart but if we are talking about the future of an organised left party trying to build on left ideology to grab a vote share then it's debatable. Over-all I didn't learn anything new from this debate. The title reminds me of the famous texas saying "All cattle no hats".
Kya bak raha hai
“If at age 20 you are not a communist then you have no heart. If at age 30 you’re not a capitalist then you have no brains.”
- George Bernard Shaw
These idiots want the state to not exist unless they can come to power. They're the most dangerous thing in Bhārāt after British and Islamic rule.
Thank god, the people of Bharat are slowly defeating them..
“If at age 20 you are not a communist then you have no heart. If at age 30 you’re not a capitalist then you have no brains.”
- George Bernard Shaw
I hope you are a capitalist
"Workers of the world unite, you have nothing to loose but your chains"
Left has Left
Indian Lefts are not actually Left,Also not Right,Also not Up....Actually thay are at Bottom tries to lift themselves up by any way.....Indians has kicked them out.
CPM=Communalist Party Muskist (Not Marxist)
Why Soviet Union disintegrated? What happened in Romania, East Germany? Atrocities of Mao, Stalin, Chasesque, Honekar can be forgotten easily?
Soviets disintegrated because Boris dissolved against the wishes of common people. 77% people in USSR at that time wished to preserve USSR. Mao and Stalin were great leaders.
@@Ms.-Lily " Mao and Stalin were great leaders" I almost choked myself drinking water while reading this.😂😂😂
@@xiijinpingthesupremeleader1349 yes! Mao and Stalin were actually great leaders.
Is NDTV relevant?
As long as you are relevant
The NDTV is totally irrelevant as 18 years post 21st century...
Indian muslims and BJP haters like it.......but they are in loss for many years now.....not sure where the money comes from..
You too will be irrelevant one day .do not worry.when anybody is in power they think similarly . congress too used to think similarly 40 years ago .you know very well history repeat itself
Mughis Raghib so brother...acc to ur own logic u shud wait for 40 more years, b4 ur favorite congress comes back....crib till then...
Debate among educated people - pleasure to watch!
Most people commenting probably haven't read what Marxism is....marx was probably the greatest thinker in human history...he is more relevant now than ever.
99% of people who are commenting in the comments section below have never read Marx , never "scrutinized" Marx . How can you post gossip materials here ??? What you gossiped with your friends and family is not the truth... first READ Marx.
News updates Lol. That means you have not read Marx at all. you should have refrained from commenting on my post. You can't assume that everyone here in RUclips comments section will be a liar like you.
News updates I am not painting myself as a knowledgeable person... I know that I have read Marx and I have gone to deeper levels. I have an entire circle where others also are well versed in Marx. so don't cleverly quote some technical term and assume something... this is my post... you commented here, not the other way around. I am not here to waste my time typing and arguing with someone who has v v shallow information.
News updates A financial economist is no economist. Get out. And Kavita in the panel made v v good points. stop pretending.. stop lying... by the way your financial economics could not stop the 2008 collapse. so don't bark technicalities here. Kavita in the panel is in my Facebook friends list. not only her but many left economist s.. as I said don't assume that people who comment here are fake people with no proper knowledge. now get out.
@@aishikgupta Karl Marx book only belong in gutters and dustbin.
@@maku8075 why? See I have no intention to provoke you to argue. But saying it Should be in gutters is a lot to say. This present economic system will contradict itself sooner or later. Even if you disagree with me, it will. Thats a truth. So please just tell me why should it be in gutters. Because if it is in gutters, the one who would repent will be us sooner or later.
The question to be asked, is NDTV relevant today?
Yes
As Margaret Thatcher said these ppl would rather have the poor poorer provided the rich were less richer
When she died the most popular song in the charts was the witch is dead due to her death, she was an Idiot and how come in every communist countries after switching to socialism there average peoples quality off life is better
Marx has great influence on both economic policy of nations and management system of big successful companies. Economic policy regimes of Germany, Scandinavian countries, Japan are influenced by socialism. The management system of Toyota and every other big Japanese companies have policy which is more socialist than that in the Soviet Union.
@RR ryt now all the ppl of India r begging jobs so nw all r on the left
Poor people talk about Marxism
Cuz they wanna get rich.
Supreme Leader please read MARX,s book ...u will just imagine what life is beyond money...a humman life ...
I will never be or I am,t Marxist but I love MARX although I belong to proletariat.... because of his love for unconscious people and thoughts of human life ....
well said mark vaz.. communist fight for poverty not the poor
interesting debate. Thank you NDTV for getting all these people. It was quite educational.
Communism is relevant.
But , messages, propoganda, advertisement are very costly which truely influence s the, partly educated, partly employed , voters of India.
Elections in India is organised by capitalists.
You must be naxalite
Well most of the people here quoting how flawed is the Marxism. I don't know how many of them read das capital or the Communist manifesto.
i havent read das capital cuz of school (or intermediate college works) but i fully support marx and engles's analysis on capitalism
Relevant? More relevant than it ever was!
Communism is a joke. Marx doesn't understand a thing about human pyschology.
You can not deny Pareto distribution, communism is an archaic idea of stagnation, you can not make progress without free think and if there is no incentive at the end of it.
What we should fight is crony capitalism, how much government should be involved and in which sectors, how to uplift the poor not just through handouts but actual skill development etc. Capitalism is an established framework on which we should build our economy on.
Communism has failed everywhere when implemented. We should reject the idea of equality of outcome, its absurd.
Lol, so many claims. Now I would argue that there never actually existed a real communist society that Marx had proposed but some experimental states with flawed praxis under undue circumstances. I would also argue you definition of failure here, as even those flawed communist states did a far superior job providing basic housing, food and healthcare to it's citizens to any capitalist state with equal levels of development. Just take the example of China and India.
Capitalism fails everyday when even after decades and centuries, millions of people living under it are still homeless and die due to starvation and the riches and most developed state under capitalism just broke down and performed the worst during a deadly pandemic. Not to mention that capitalism has brought this world on the edge of destruction with climate change and is still downplaying it for petty short term profits.
I would also argue that cronyism is capitalism is at its purest form and monopolies is the natural end result of this system. N I don't have to explain to you why that's bad.
Again this absolutely stupid argument of "it wasn't real communism", like you could do better than all the other regimes? Nearly 100 million people victims of this stupid economic system that is impractical. So many attempts to establish this failed ideology of Communism only proves that this system is only good in theory. Why don't commies wake up to reality and see that the world works differently? Humans are all different and unique and cannot force equality. You talk about capitalism? All the technological advancements in the world today is because of capitalism. While it has taken a lot of toll, the fact that we have this platform to discuss these things on these electronic devices is because of capitalism. It is easy to enjoy all benefits of capitalism and then crib about communism as it frees from accountability and responsibility.
Marxism can be summed up in one slogan "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". Suppose there are two farmers. Farmer#1 with two kids and one-acre land produces 10 bags of grain and a lazy farmer#2 next door with 6 kids produces only 8 bags of grain. Since farmer#2 has more needs, more mouths to feed and less efficient... farmer#1 will have to turn over some his produce to farmer#2. Will anyone sitting in this panel and audience turn over their incomes and monies to their drivers and maids? Will Mr. Vikram Chandra turn in his yacht for the greater good? This is precisely why Marxism was dead on arrival. It goes against the basic human emotion which drives the society forward. Selfishness. No farmer will produce 10 bags of grain if he has to turn over 2 bags to his neighbour. Individuals create surpluses for themselves not for everyone. Western democracies have social security net with the aim of pushing people up and out of social security. They are egalitarian not marxist
In a socialist country there will be no private farmers, thus your example is wrong. Everyone has to work hard, laziness is not allowed. Also, there will be planned families depending on the resource of the country.
Johnny your logic is flawed on wealth distribution . it seems you think wealth can be created out of thin air. Especially in this country ,most of the wealth is captive ,and more of it being accumulated only by few who have come to possess it through inheritance. Moreover, left is pro birth control ,China is a case in point . So your hypothesis of robbing Peter to feed Paul is just fear mongering. Its not about parting with one yacht but siphoning the poor to own a fleet like a certain Mallya.
"everyone has to work hard, laziness is not allowed".. First of all who the fcuk are you or anybody to dictate to people that they HAVE to work hard and laziness is NOT allowed. Second of all, Chairman Mao did exactly what you describe here in his great leap forward. Collectivisim. What happened? 45+ million people died of hungar. And pls let me plan your family. I think I somehow know more about the well being of your family than yourself!
Johnny yes, but India doesn't have those social security nets- which is why socialism/ communism is initially required in India! Once inequality (and caste) has been mitigated, and social security guaranteeing basic human dignity to the poor has been achieved, feel free to do away with communism
@@noamorwell The capitalists would just come back in power take away everything we would have achieved
Karl marx is relevant for all atheists and secularists...I am a Christian I don't believe in socialism or communism...I believe in capitalism and free business and purchasing for all...I don't believe a society should be controlled by a few people...but all society should be involved in politics and nation building.
Of course he is alive....on what principal political correctness is done ....... media is still viewing people in groups rather than individual.... basically putting equality before freedom.
Pathetic analysis
Krishnamurthy made sense in her point but anchor didn't allow her to speak. He interrupted her.
Everyone seems to agree with each other. Everyone patting each others back.
Mr. Anchor please shut your mouth first and give chance to the invitees to speak. They know Marx better.
communism and socialism make people equal,I.e. equally poor.😂 😂 😂 😜
Thats why India is still poor after following so many years of capitalism even after 1990
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL YOU ARE SO RIGHT XD XD XD 😱😱😱😱🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪 stfu
@@iranunsc2824 it's better than before
@@swanita9568 very true
@@iranunsc2824 just see India's economic frredom rank and you will realise how less capitalistic it is. At least debate on facts, not on feelings.
in India labours and contract workers working conditions are very bad and they work at least 18 hours a day.
One of the biggest Indian tragedies, ideologically, is GOING OF CPIML’S ( CPI NOT TO FEEL HAPPY ALSO ) MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT TO BJP . All the Communists in India have to think again, and really, revolutionize their IDEOLOGY!!
Capitalism vs socialism.....?
Well let me guess.....
As a common man ...socialism
For a capitalist ......hell yeah Capitalism
ShAmAnNa BeNGalURu It is not that simple. Common people lost a lot during the socialist era in India. Things got better after the economy was opened up.
As a common man I chose capitalist.
@@maku8075 you love being a slave?
Should have called Sitaram Yechury!
If you are not worthy steal from other or kill eventually : karl marx.
Abhinav Tiwari typical privileged Brahmin-talk. Never acknowledge your own privilege that your fraudulent ancestors built by forcing other human beings into servitude, and today call the poor 'unworthy'. Great going, Indian owes its people's misery to this Brahminical mode of thought.
@@noamorwell please point out my privilege?
@@Abhinavhind Tiwari is a Brahmin name, no? In our country, that's already quite a headstart in life, is it not?
@@noamorwell I already said, please point out my privileges you claimed.
@@Abhinavhind well said
Raghav awasthi should have been there in the panel..
Never read Marx but have to say that socialism is still very much relevant. During the pandemic, when the GDP of whole India shrunk and people lost their jobs, Kerala and West Bengal had positive GDP growth rate because almost no one lost their jobs there.
and an unpopular but apparently true thing is that the dissolution of soviet union is undemocratic
@ ok
Labour theory of value is fundamentally flawed.
Hobo Sapien it drives inefficiencies and central planning
@@rajeshsennik7376 explain
its not
Nope. Firstly, Marx's "law of value" is different from Ricardo's "labour theory of value". And the law of value has been proven in real world in multiple economic studies in Capitalist Economies.
If you want to work for the needy and poor please go the Gandhi way ...
Not the Marx way
Cuz as she in the very first person all the movements that's have started as if they are such a great achievement ...
Those are the very movements which have killed more people than anything probably even more than religion marx's ideas are too radical and too impractical no such utopia can exist ...
As for Gandhi we all know if he wasn't killed he India would have been something very very different ... So please choose him as your ideal .. also Corbyn really 😂😂😂😂 he was fucked.... Don't hate Marx hate the commies plz ....
Dhanyavad 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Isn't this debate similar to Astha TV eulogizing their God Marx !
God Marx
Marx will become more and more relevant as economy gets worse and people realise that the open market economy and semi fascist system has failed them.
A classless society requires abundance. When food and other resources are as abundant as air, there will be enough for all. With in the next hundred years we will learn to convert energy into matter just as plants convert sunlight into food. Then there will be enough for all without strife or jealousy.
A few selfish individuals may still need great palaces, yachts and other tokens to feel on top of everybody else. We can reserve special territories for them to indulge their whims. The rest of humanity will go forward.
One of the better and more relevant debates this. Kavita Krishnan was fabulous.
Marxism failed but karl marx never failed
Marxism, Leninism, etc are not excluded to evolution. Democracy permits to stand against creator in the ahimsa path, if you don't agree to creator's decision.
Where's the place for joking?
BJP has done many things for poor . Free Gas cylinder , adhar based distribution of subsidies which actually helps poor at large , free electrification , less expensive medicines under PMBJAY . Jan dhan account with insurance and now health insurance of 5 lakhs per family ..... Kudos to BJP
Yes. Yes. Thats y India's NPA has increased multifold...stopping of subsidies to people but no net result of its effect to the people...rate of no. of millionaires go on increasing whlie MSME go on dwindling..Mallya @ Modi are allowed to go scot free after looting..no Lok Pal..public lynchings...above all, crores of black money was unearthed by DeMo ..etc.. really poor have benefitted from BJP.
@@krishnamohan6930 India's NPA is high because of Congress bad banking or phone-pay-banking they actually given loans on phones that's y the advances rose from 18 lakh Crore to 52 lakh Crore in 10 yrs and when NDA comes in centre it actually told RBI to conduct a review audit and then it's came out that NPA is in record high and then govt start process to come of tht UPA Made monsters . BJP done a great job ... Dude . Lynching is not new phenomenon in 1947 in Kolkata what happen in jinah's call and in India even on small thing lynching can happen in Kerala a tribal was lynched in suspicion of stealing food and in karnataka lynching happen on suspicion of child thief.....and both has non BJP govt so dude it's law and order problem and that's y our police need reforms ...samjha ji
@@Kamallohani10
1. RBI in its FSR has stated NPA of all banks rose from 10.2% in 9/2017 to 11.6% in 3/2018. It could reach 12.2% by 3/2019. Was Congress in power during this period? Why this govt is not even able to contain continued increase of NPA which otherwise is always is basking in self glory?
2. Don't confuse killings that took place around 1947 wth d one taking place from 2014. Now we have moved from 1947. Before 2014 no one was killed for transportation of cows. Now it has become order of the day. Courts are condemning police to stop this. In Kerala, what u refer is a tribal area- Attapady valley- a tribal was killed by others and that was condemned by none other than CM himself apart from media condemnation. No one glorified or justified that killing in Kerala. It was an aberration.But killings on cow are well orchestrated and justified openly by vested interests. The recent lynchings in northen india is not a law and order problem but a sinister plan with the tacit support or inaction of state machinery.
@@krishnamohan6930 really in Kerala cpm cadre lynching RSS workers , nuns in Kerala actually accusing bishops of raps and what happening there actually govt doing nothing to protect nuns , in West people TMC actually killing BJP cadre and whole media mum about it , that's y media is now irrelevant in our country . Media highlights only when the accused were Hindus and actually hides the incident when accuse where Muslim . I would request u to go on statics of lynching before 2014 , tht will help u to erase Ur misconception . To rid of such problem we need police reforms which actually several time supreme court alluded to . Sorry to say but Indian media is selective in there outrage that's y many people now actually believing in social media then main stream media .
1) If u recall when BJP govt came in 2014 , then rbi governed actually comes out and said NPA and twin balance sheet problem is a big hurdle in economy growth because because of twin balance problem private sector would not invest in economy . for Ur information during UPA era NPA increases 82 % from 18 Lakh Crore to 52 lakh Crore . Here someday before I read in news paper NDA government actually working hard to resolve this problem and around 40 % of NPA was resolved .... I m sure u heard about Tata acquiring of Bhushan steel and other govt measures to resolve this problem.
@@Kamallohani10
In 2013-14 NPA was at 3.8%. Modi wrongly told it as 82%. As per RBI, Rs.52 laks crores are total advances only (and not NPA). What u hav given was tweeted by BJP. But once it became clear, both the speech of Modi and the tweet were deleted by BJP. The stark reality: India's NPA goes on increasing at a rate faster than ever.
As far as lynchings are concerned, if govt takes any action on d perpetrators of it, no problem. But in lynchings committed on cow transportation, indirect or passive collusion of ruling party is involved and d perpetrators are protected by govt.
Marx is still relevant, not only in India but anywhere capitalism is working. Only Marxism is the solution to uplift the working people the world.
yeah
From the poor and poverty made and making rich bcoz DESIRE to be reached... I.... 😔.......
The title of debate was about relevance of Marxism but it ends up in the left and right politics in india .
all human beings have fundamental inalienable human rights like right to equality, justice etc etc. But those fundamental rights do not and should never include the right to take money from haves and distribute it to have-nots
What Prasenjit is saying is totally wrong, those issues where he's pointing at are just distractions. The real struggle is class struggle. The God of a rich Dalit, a rich Muslim and a rich RSS Fascist is the same, it's the God of the Rich. Whereas the God of the opressed Dalit, the opressed Muslim and an opressed Hindu is the same, the God of the down trodden, the under-dog. Burgeiose democracy is altogether a sham. The Communist Parties are not there to win the elections, it's all about mobilisation for the revolution. In Burgeiose Democracies people vote for who can win, they may like a person and think he's more capable and honest than his opponents but they won't vote for him. How people vote is a whole different psychological debate. Marxism cannot be boxed up in Electoral process.
Hell yes. One just needs to read OXFAM reports.....
Any link?
We dont need a complete communism and unregulated capitalism. We need free market , a the same time we need govt to take care working class. capitalism should be regulated.
Absolutely Right you are. Regulation what capitalists fear. its Social Democrats not necessarily Left.
Green Libertarians
Social democracy relies on the 3rd world being exploited the working class to not get taken care off in capitalism.
The color of Capitalism is Red
A really time wasting debate on KARL MARX in twenty first century??????
The debator has no patience or etiquette. Always interfering
RIP Marxism
Comedy😂😂🤣marxism still relevant👍🏻
Beautiful.....👌
Marx is relivant and Marxism is a science not a dogma.
marx ideas change the world
Yeah if any country want to be poor like India after 70 years of independence and 60 years under left rule choose Marxism.
@@maku8075 did you forget American sanctions on India?
@@Ms.-Lily lol usa sanctioned India in 1998 only
@@maku8075 it's failed because socialism not Marxism
security guard earns 12000.. why the fcuk are banks and companies hiring security guards. These gaurds are not going to fight with an armed robber or stop a determined person to get into a building. Around the world the security guard jobs have been automated and india should follow the lead. Then we wont have complains from security guards and a security guard trade union to deal with
exactly.. if those security jobs and other hard labor jobs are eliminated by technology and automaton then those ppl won't have such shitty jobs and belong to 'working class'. They can find better work elsewhere for their skills. You can complain about life being unfair all you want but at the end of the day all that matters is do you have the skills to make your life better. If you don't what are you doing about it?
Decline of communism is directly proportional to rise of Hindutva which is the future of the nation as it talks about akhand Bharat while left talk of breaking india.
जहां जहा मार्क्स को मौका मीला...
माओ ने उस जगह को और गरीब बना दीया
dont read marx , u want to understand whats going on in the world and in india , kindly read understanding power by noam chomsky.
Left, stop smoking weed and come to reality.
No it is not permanent it is temporal
left is in I.C.U.
Thoda legacy of Adam Smith ke bare me bhi bolo
The legend of pappu
bad anchoring.
Bad debate on Marxism ever because they mixed up with Indian politics which definitely will end up in a different direction all the time.
Most influential person for last 1000 years .....KARL MARX
BEST seller book in 2008 economic recession ....DAS CAPITAL .....
Communism is freedom ..... freedom of choice ...not just freedom of free trade..
The life ...... human life as Marx thought would be enjoyed in communism is impossible the answer is in Plato,s thought...... LOVE U ALOT...
मार्क्स बहोत जल्द भारत से बहार होगा
Its only dream bro😂😂😂💯
Twin oaks
Anchor is disrupting..will have to leave discussion..
bahot ho gya left right ...abki baar behenji ki sarkaar
Communist ideology is every one should be equal, but naturally every one are not equal, those who are intelligent and who works hard will earn more money than lazy and stupid.
But according to Communists equal one should be equal that is possible only when there is civil war and every body becomes equally poor.
Lal salam
Foreign ideology has no place in india. Vedicism is the way forward
TheHarharmahadev v What the hell is Vedicism? 😀
Cpim is थू chat of congress pakistani party
If u want 2 be a mioast then this is d show
✊🏼
Long live Left Movement......Inqilab Zindabad.......
The color of Capitalism is Red
The color of Capitalism is Red