Emojli: Behind the Scenes and Why You Should Never Build An App
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- emoj.li - Emojli, our emoji-only messenger, has launched! Today at Electromagnetic Field, the UK hacker camp, Matt Gray and I gave a talk about how it was made, why it was made, and why we never want to build anything like it again.
MATT: mattg.co.uk - @unnamedculprit
ME: tomscott.com - @tomscott
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4:44
As the person who did register the smiley face account, I apologise
want to upvote, but that would ruin the 69 upvotes your comment got, so see this comment as a like.
@@hette666 You can like this now.
WE NEED IT TO GET TO 444 LIKES
As the person who made this comment go up to 444 likes, I apologize to the others who wanted to do it.
@Louis E. eh?
"The first 80% of software development is the easy part. The hard part is the next 80%."
I've actually never heard something that makes more sense. :P
I don't get it
It's a me Mario The next 80% are 20% debugging, then the launch and then 60% bugfixing after release, which you ofc didn't plan for.
minecrafter0505 Took a while for me to wrap that around my head thanks
I'm 75%good at maths, and 35% bad
"Time magazine is just buzzfeed but they're not admitting it" may be the saddest truth I've heard in years
biggest oof in the history of oofs
Sadly, almost all news sources are this. Journalist have been replaced by social media experts. Press releases are often printed verbatim with no fact checking or even proofreading.
Go check out the book "Trust me I'm lying" to see how bad it really is. And that book is several years old.
@@mattropolis7857 Indeed. You learn that what we think is bad is not new when we realise someone already published a book about years years ago.
It's all reoccurring issues and history repeating itself.
"I'm reasonably certain in the security of the stuff we're storing..."
*[raucous laughter from audience of hackers]*
The wails of "NOOOO!!!" when Tom said Emojili was in PHP were incredible. Those were some horrified nerds.
what's wrong with php
@@alainportant6412 Did you ever saw the syntax and mind bending concepts used. They ignore like 90% of coding standards...
@@wumwum42 if it works, it works
And then there isme .. Who loves PHP and JS
Should have programmed it in emojis
in 💪➕➕
you can actually do that with Apple's Swift programming language
😄😃😀😊☺😉😍😘😚😗😙😜😝😛😳😁😔😌😒😞😣😢😂😭😪😥😰😅😓😩😫😨😱😠😡😤😖😆😋😷😎😴😵😲😟😦😧😈👿😮😬😐😕😯😶😇😏😑👲👳👮👷💂👶👦👧👨👩👴👵👱👼👸😺😸😻😽😼🙀😿😹😾👹👺🙈🙉🙊💀👽💩🔥✨🌟💫💥💢💦💧💤💨👂👀👃👅👄👍👎👌👊✊✌👋✋👐👆👇👉👈🙌🙏☝👏💪🚶🏃💃👫👪👬👭💏💑👯🙆🙅💁🙋💆💇💅👰🙎🙍🙇🎩👑👑👟👞👡👠👢👕👔👚👗🎽👖👘👙💼👜👝👛👓🎀🌂💄💛💙💜💚❤💔💗💓💕💖💞💘💌💋💍💎👤👥💬👣💭🐶🐺🐱🐭🐹🐰🐸🐯🐨🐫🐷🐽🐮🐗🐵🐒🐴🐑🐘🐼🐧🐦🐤🐥🐣🐔🐍🐢🐛🐝🐜🐞🐌🐙🐚🐠🐟🐬🐳🐋🐄🐏🐀🐃🐅🐇🐉🐎🐐🐓🐕🐖🐁🐂🐲🐡🐊🐫🐪🐆🐈🐩🐾💐🌸🌷🍀🌹🌻🌺🍁🍃🍂🌿🌾🍄🌵🌴🌲🌳🌰🌱🌼🌐🌞🌝🌚🌑🌒🌓🌔🌕🌖🌗🌘🌜🌛🌙🌍🌎🌏🌋🌌🌠⭐☀⛅☁⚡☔❄⛄🌀🌁🌈🌊🎍💝🎒🎓🎆🎇🎐🎑🎃👻🎅🎄🎁🎋🎉🎊🎈🔮🎥📷📹📼💿📀💽💾💻📱☎📞📟📠📡📺📻🔊🔉🔈🔇🔔🔕📢📣⏳⌛⏰⌚🔓🔒🔏🔐🔑🔎💡🔦🔆🔅🔌🔋🔍🛁🛀🚿🚽🔧🔩🔨🚪🚬💣🔫🔪💊💉💰💴💵💷💶💳💸📲📧📥📤✉📩📨📯📫📪📬📭📮📦📝📄📃📑📊📈📉📜📋📅📆📇📁📂✂📌📎✒✏📏📐📕📗📘📙📓📔📒📚📖🔖📛🔬🔭📰🎨🎬🎤🎧🎼🎵🎶🎹🎻🎺🎷🎸👾🎮🃏⚾🀄🎲🎯🏈⚽⚽🎾🎱🏉🎳⛳🚵🚴🏁🏇🏆🎿🏂🏊🏄🎣☕🍵🍶🍼🍺🍻🍸🍹🍷🍴🍕🍔🍟🍗🍖🍝🍛🍤🍱🍣🍥🍙🍘🍚🍜🍲🍢🍡🍳🍞🍩🍮🍦🍨🍧🎂🍰🍪🍫🍬🍭🍯🍎🍏🍊🍋🍒🍇🍉🍓🍑🍈🍌🍐🍍🍠🍆🍅🌽🏠🏡🏫🏢🏣🏥🏦🏪🏩🏨💒⛪🏬🏤🌇🌆🏯🏰⛺🏭🗼🗻🌄🌅🌃🗽🌉🎠🎡⛲🎢🚢⛵🚤🚣⚓🚀✈💺🚁🚂🚊🚉🚞🚆🚄🚅🚈🚇🚝🚋🚃🚎🚌🚍🚙🚘🚗🚕🚖🚛🚚🚨🚓🚔🚒🚑🚐🚲🚡🚟🚠🚜💈🚏🎫🚦🚥⚠🚧🔰⛽🏮🎰♨🗿🎪🎭📍🚩🇰🇷🇯🇵🇩🇪🇨🇳🇺🇸🇫🇷🇪🇸🇮🇹🇷🇺🇬🇧🔢🔣⬆⬇⬅➡🔠🔡🔤↗↖↘↙↔↕🔄◀▶🔼🔽↩↪ℹ⏪⏩⏫⏬⤵⤴🆗🔀🔁🔂🆕🆙🆒🆓🆖📶🎦🈁🈯🈳🈵🈴🈲🉐🈹🈺🈶🈚🚻🚹🚺🚼🚾🚰🚮🅿♿🚭🈷🈸🈂Ⓜ🛂🛄🛅🛃🉑㊙㊗🆑🆘🆔🚫🔞📵🚯🚱🚳🚷🚸⛔✳❇❎✅✴💟🆚📳📴🅰🅱🆎🅾💠➿♻♈♉♊♋♌♍♎♏♐♑♓♒⛎🔯🏧💹💲💱®™❌‼⁉❗❓❕❔⭕🔝🔚🔙🔛🔜🔃🕛🕧🕐🕜🕑🕝🕒🕞🕓🕟🕔🕠🕕🕡🕖🕢🕗🕣🕘🕤🕙🕥🕚🕦✖➕➖➗♠♣♦💯💮✔☑🔘🔗➰〰〽🔱◼◻◾◽▪▫🔺🔲🔳⚫🔴⚪🔵🔻⬜⬛🔶🔷🔸🔹
www.emojicode.org/
The most cancerous programing language ever created
Tom: "You have to list on your Data Protection Act submission the possible things you might be storing about people... and it includes details about people's sexuality. And I went "Well no, obviously not, that's not, Emoji-" There's a two men holding hands Emoji that you could use- oh for god's sake..."
Guy: "Sorry!"
Tom: "Thank you, Tom! What's your username Tom?"
Guy: "™️👬"
I lost it
...
I read this as it happened
I was going to argue with "no browser supports emojis" but then I looked at the upload date.
I was like what??
Chrome doesnt support Emojis right? i just see a hollow box
🧟
@@chrissxMedia Hollow box
@@chrissxMedia how odd, i'm on mobile yet there is only a rectangle with an X in the middle.
10:33 it takes tom less than 1/2 of a second to go from calm chill dude to panic mode
his abilities are too evolved
and then 1/2 second to go right back again
Sometimes I wonder if Tom just has 20 identical red shirts in his closet.
Hoodie He does.
Yeah he buys them in bulk he's said on his Twitter
-Hi, I'm Matt
-And I'm Tom
And there's me expecting a park bench.
"tom was doing the front end, i was doing to back end"
well done, now this video needs an age restriction
"And our friend Gary was in the middle!"
™️👨❤️👨
He can do my back end
It was actually the other way around but OK
@@mitigatekeeps1371 There's a reason that Garry Brannan is everyone's favorite Garry Brannan.( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Tom, I had a dream last night that I met you somewhere, and you weren't wearing a red t-shirt. I was really upset about that.
did you have it since?
Turns out you met 2024 Tom Scott
At my company, we got so tired of Apples push notifications that we ended up using a third party service for a customer project.
David Olandersson I seriously considered that, but that means we'd essentially incur a cost per message. That wasn't a good idea!
I know this is 2 years old, however, in the words of Tom Scott, "that means we'd essentially incur a cost per message. That wasn't a good idea!"
@@anzejensterle i know it's 5 years old, but it's dead now
@@FathinLuqmanTantowi yee
7 years ago someone told me:
I love that this talk is just 30 minutes of Tom being pissed
This is one of THOSE type of stories. The best ones where you're basically recounting a long sequence of things being done absolutely as wrong as they could be, yet somehow nobody died, and even though you were the people responsible for most of the horror you still don't understand how it worked. Sort of like my brother's old stories of D&D GM'ing with a bunch of mates who were really, really bad at D&D and totally disinterested in playing the game properly...
Aw I see the site has been shut down (sad face) (aubergine)
👬
+invalidusername Reverse peace sign
🕴
👎🙁💥🔫
It's online for me.
Tom: “Eye-oss”
Me: “Eye-oh-ess”
Me: overpriced bollocks
Me: Yoss
@@GryphLane
Yep
Me: "ys"
I don't get it
Someone on r/conlang made a functional emoji language with grammar and vocabulary
You always do the best talks and the dynamics of a co-hosted talk like this were lovely. I want to watch more co-hosted talks now.
5 years later Tom Scott manged to monetise the app, by making a RUclips series on "How To Build An App".
Matt was years ahead of the competition in using web languages for an app. Now web apps are all the rage now and are everywhere now
I think that goes not only for apps, but any type of software. Just because you have the technical skills to do something (sometimes not even that) and you think it would be cool, doesn't mean you have the skills to go through with it all the way to the end. Building software for the public involves a lot of legal aspects (like all that data security stuff) as well as social ones (troubleshooting, moderating, meetings with stakeholders etc.) that most developers just don't like to do.
Mysql, PHP, cordova, encoding and apple certificate hell. Those guys literally described my job.
"Are we going to do anything?"
"No."
*high five*
For any Americans watching, Wolfram Alpha says that in 2014, 35 GBP (Great British Pounds) was roughly $60.
I probably would have the same reaction he did if it was thirty-five *_dollars_*. But paying $60 for a joke? That takes some dedication.
Not to mention the money for the other stuff, but that's the only number we actually heard, I think.
Dami Nooki It's roughly $48 right now, but not then. In 2014, the average was $1.65 per British pound, with the minimum at $1.55 at the end of December and a maximum of $1.72 at the beginning of July.
So 35 GBP would have been between $54.31 and $60.07, with an average of $57.66.
Dami Nooki Apparently, yes, according to Wolfram Alpha.
Tom also paid £500 to stand for MP as a pirate, so I think he'd go pretty far for a joke😂
He once spent 500£ to run for parliament because he lost a bet
So many of Tom's videos are just about why you shouldn't do anything basically. I love it.
"There’s a messaging app worse than Yo"
Exodus Music what
BOB DA GAMER It’s the exact quote that Matt mentioned at around 20:49
Oh
Also I’m surprised that you responded to me on a five year old comment
You guys are brill, hilarious, and I always feel like there should be three compliments in a list of compliments. Two seems weird.
Ah, the second rule of three; Always give three compliments.
power of three, my friend. 3 things in a list is better than 2.
They're what? Brill? That's not even a word...
@@bobsonny It's a UK phrase. Short for brilliant. Usually meaning "great" rather than "really really high brow".
I love the way you guys talk. Great lecture and, indeed, some solid arguments against building an app.
Went and looked at the website, which still has the terms and conditions and privacy policy available, and y’all definitely did a smart thing when you added the Service Suspension clause to the TaC
For the ten year anniversary you should release it, but when you try to sign up it says the email must be emoji, and when you type in emojis it says it must be a valid email
Or for April fools
lmao
I don't know anything about developing anything, but this was really entertaining.
Basically if they had waited a couple more years for emojis to be widely supported, it would have been way easier to make.
Idea for your next app: consonant-only (or vowel-only) messenger.
Not vowel only, pleas no!
"AAAOEOEIOIOIOIAIAIAIYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOOOOO"
Андрей Беньковский WhatsApp + Great Gatsby.
probably works alright for some Semitic languages
@@arimago Hebrew could work great, even if half the messages will just be חחחחחחחחחחחח.
Welsh is basically consonants only already. They have a very high ratio of consonants to vowels. I’m trying to learn it and it definitely interesting
I may or may not have made an account called ©⛎🎣➕↩️📧💲➕®🅾🌱📧®
I regret nothing
HM01 Copyright Underwater 'u' Headphones plus turn around envelope dollar plus registered o plant envelope registered? Damn that's badass!
Yeah I know I was joking lol
+Chrnan6710 🔞
Richard Smith 🔫😉
This video perfectly sums up why despite all it's privacy intrusion, government surveillance and general shittyness I still love the internet.
Should Tom Scott ever see this:
This is one of the most gloriously insane things I have ever seen. I absolutely love your work and please never stop.
these are exactly the kinds of talks i like seeing! [nudges tom] More talks...
This was 4 years ago. I feel like it was yesterday. This is frightening.
This was 6 years ago, it still feels like it was yesterday!
"what's your username?"
"trademark, two men holding hands."
[raucous applause and cheering]
When Tom said "MySQL and Unicode" I cringed
And I did too. And so did everyone who works with MySQL
Hunter Willis because he is at that stage most of use were when we thought we were experts but actually we were clueless about how clueless we were. He has nice hair and talks like a fast young wiper-snapper so he gets the stage in front of other ignoramuses lol
dasbrawnyman
And what's wrong with MySQL and Unicode?
@@uuu12343 Well, at the time MySQL does not support UTF-8 that is longer than three bytes (and emoji is usually four to five bytes when encoded with UTF-8).
@@gacelperfinian MySQL has come a long way in 5 years.
is the red shirt your "thing"?
You'd better believe it!
***** Doesn't everybody have this one shirt they wear like 90% of the time ^_^
***** True ;-;
***** That blue doctor who tshit I have it.
Sir Pmh1 Well congrats buddy but I have no clue why you told me that :'D
TOm was doing the back end, I was doing the front end.
hehehe
He certainly looks like a back end kind of guy.
🔙🔚
"Finally - we found something worse than yo" had me literally laugh aloud
"there's a library for doing that in JavaScript"
so emojli is like a crappy goldfish you won at the fair.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Omar Rojo Stop squaring stuff!
Omar Rojo Browser doesn't support emojis ;)
ClassicPork If you're using Google Chrome, you can get the 'Emoji Input' extension.
Dead before you get all the way home?
wait wait wait-
"partly in the lounge, partly in his tent"
_my dirty mind is totally not reading too much into that_
I just realized that this is going to be 10 years ago and just a couple more years. Damn.
''Tom was doing the back end, I was doing the front end'' If you try really hard, that sounds really wrong.
"...Storing information about people's sexuality..."
You don't need to try very hard 🤣
Have you noticed, the colour of the microphone colourcoding it fitting with the tshirts :D
"In fact I can modify the question slightly: Are we gonna do anything?"
"No"
*victory high five*
Feels so weird now that this was just 8 years ago. Today everything does emoji and there are multiple open fonts.
I've never used them, and have no plans to. But they're interesting anyway.
the 'welcome to 2014' was crazy
So, did you try to sell it? If so many people thought this was a great idea that they were willing to invest, it sounds like you might have been able to sell it. As long as you let everyone know and gave them a chance to delete their account, there would be no ethical problems. (I'd understand if no one was willing to pay you enough, though--since you say people weren't using it.)
Also, BTW, what was that thing you used to help you handle emoji in PHP/MySQL? I couldn't make it out.
"Huh, I wonder if emojli is still available..."
"OHMYGOD YES IT IS"
"The reviews are so low, what happened?"
"Oh, it's broken... Who's Alan Hardman?"
The difficulties of conversing in emoji with strangers are fascinating to me. I play Magic: The Gathering which is a game with a fairly well designed rule structure , this means it can be played perfectly well without any common language right up to the point where there is any disagreement at which point it is far too complicated to resolve.
Alright, so I'm not gonna make that one app I planned to make. Screw that.
On an unrelated note, you guys are actually amazing.
i love it when a plan....runs out of control and gets you in a big bad mess where you can laugh about telling it to others at some point.... great story !
emoji has about 0 - 10% support depending on the site
"Box with hex code in it" is my favourite emoji! 😕
yetanothertubeuser
I would like to report that I'm using Firefox, and every emoji on this comment section displayed properly... except this one. Was that intentional? Because it's brilliant either way.
Or 100% on emojipedia
The "no under 18" sign: 🔞, is technically wrong, if you follow the traffic rules used in Europe and other places in the world. That is a prohibition sign. A round sign with a red border, with an optional diagonal red line. There are two types of prohibition signs:
- Showing a thing or action you can't do: 🚭🚯🚳🚷📵
Past this sign, you simply can't do that, like: smoking, littering, using a bicycle, access for pedestrians, using a phone.
- Showing a number, or a number related to a thing.
Past this sign, you can only be up to that number and not exceed it. The common is just a number, meaning maximum speed. A number plus a unit of weight, meaning maximum weight. A number and for example the length of a vehicle, meaning maximum length.
So this sign: 🔞, it either means a maximum speed of 18, in whatever unit the country is using. ...or, since it's about age, maximum age allowed.
There's a second sign that tells you what you _have_ to do past it. It's a blue round sign with a white border and white symbol. If these where blue and white instead: 🚭🚯🚳🚷📵, then that would mean: smoking mandatory; littering mandatory; path only meant for bikes; path only meant for pedestrians; phone usage mandatory. If there's a number, then that means you need to be at least that number. So just a number is usually about speed, so that's the minimum speed. Number plus unit of weight is minimum weight, and so on. So a minimum of 18 years of age is a blue round sign, white borders, white text that says "18 years".
An unicode-only service in PHP?
This is a play by play of how it would look if I’d ever launched an app, except with a bit more competence than I’d be able to muster.
Nice alternate timeline to watch A+
💲🏩ℹ️🚹
©®🅰️🅿️
🅰️💲💲
It may not be what he's implying but it's possible!
🏦🏨ℹ️🏣
✝️〰️🅰️✝️
♌🅾️🆖️
🤬
🅿️3️⃣🆕💲
RIP Emojli.
This... was epic win. I have never laughed so much over something so silly. Good work guys! xD
Damn, I just found out about that now.
Were the passwords in emoji too? :D
They correctly observed in 2014 that the world was in an App bubble. The sad thing about that is, that this bubble is still blowing up and hasn't burst yet
I'm surprised nobody used regional indicators, it's a thing done commonly on Discord for its reaction thing.
regional indicators were added to emoji in 2015, they made this in 2014
🆒🅱🅾🅾🅱5⃣
🅰RE
🆗
Niklas Schmidt *🅰️®️📧
Hmm... This is the sort of thing I'd actually use, I wonder what it'd take to re-create it.
Too much work
CharlieDodgeball For you.
I could maybe code it with a couple lessons of php and css I know html and java script
+zxin's World it would probably take about a week.
You've already told us that anything with emoji in the title generates way more clicks than usual. I'm not falling for that! Oh, wait...
I don't think that you shouldn't build an app, just don't make an app for apple products.
You should have coded that they get a message on the screen if their preferred username is already taken, then you could have avoided hundreds of emails
Another problem with unicode emojis is that different fonts and systems have different pictures. A pistol can face left on one phone, and right on another. This can completely change the meaning of whatever you're trying to say involving a gun.
Unicode has specification for the direction of emojis.
tom was doing the back end, i was doing the front end. XD. i am so childish.
I know nothing about code and yet still I am enthralled
well done guys ! Loved your talk !
And now there's a middle finger emoji
🖕
"Welcome to 2014" oh jesus what have i gotten into
Great talk *****! Do you guys have any ideas on how to monetize?
8:54 Windows phone seems to support emoji just fine in browser and in SMS. I'm not sure if it supports the full standard, but it's baked into the keyboard, and I have yet to see a rectangle where an emoji should be.
That was funnier than most comedy shows on TV! :D
Wait... Tom Scott is on UsVsTh3m?
This guy is all over the place...
Don't you mean...🌙💲✅💲🌴🗄3️⃣〽️❔
Because of this video I've spent a good ten minutes trying to spell my name in emoji, so thanks from (copyright)(hotel)(3 o'clock)(o)(e-mail)
Chloe?
+Lucas Forsberg 4nf
♈♓🚦 ♈♊♑⛽♌♈♑🛅
mesodontask ♋️
©️🏨🕒🅾️📧
Bring Emojli back! Or at least release the code to somebody who will.
his break downs are funny af lmao
Flipping a coin head + tail. Heads I win tails you lose..
Social Media has only gotten worse since this video, the world needs Emojli more than ever
actually android's push message is so simple to integrate in both front and back end, it made me doubt myself (with google messaging service). also you can use custom layouts for notifications (which ios lacks). this was the only part that i found enjoyable while developing for android, as everything else is too cumbersome or lacks good documentation, code examples, etc. ios has a much better development environment.
Matt and Tom? We just need an Edd.
*INTERT INSENSITIVE JOKE HERE*
And maybe add a Tord while you're at it
Lovemaxman1234 Oh God... It's been like 8+ years since watched those, and I still got this the second I read it.
God intert
InnovumTechnology yes we do
Matt looks like a British JonTron
glad it's not just me
Andrew Gooding i can't unsee it now
Thanks mate, now I can't not see it
Ech Mate
Andrew Gooding
But Jontron has been on the slide ever since he met the crap that is h3h3
When php is done right it isn't that bad. Did you not use mvc with object oriented programming tom?
I can just see the snowball rolling down the hill as this story progresses.
I want to see this emoji only interview.
In case anyone is wondering those Samson r21s microphones
Wow. Had they had this idea just a couple months later, some their problems would be solved. Twitter's Twemoji came out in November, and easily could've solved some emoji based problems like licensing and stuff. Unfortunate.
The "reverse victory sign" joke doesn't work well outside GB and Ireland. I guess it's an insulting gesture comparable in meaning and level of escalation to the middle finger?
Apparently it comes from the archers at Agincourt. The French wld cut the bow holding fingers of captured archers, therefore disable them to fight. So those archers that escaped this treatment gestured their bow fingers to the French. It means today the same as the middle finger.
Only people of similar interests and understand the same references could possibly understand each other when sending emojis to each other. Anyone outside of that group would be sorely confused.
And this ends up being the real world example of Star Trek's "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra".
They closed the project... If only they kept it going...
watching this in 2021, 2014 feels ancient
Tom you have to update your website, 900,000 subscribers now!