Loving all the Adrián Beltré talk! Loved watching him play when he was with the Rangers! I've never been to Cooperstown before, but I plan on being there when he gets inducted in July!
To jakes point on Mantle having an overall negative defensive war for his career, didnt he tear his knee on a sprinkler head in center field and they didnt have the technology to fix it yet so he just played the rest of his career with a torn knee?
I'd also like to point out with Buerhle that he has the most 200+ inning seasons of any pitcher after the year 2000 with 14. Number 2 is Justin Verlander with 12. I'm not sure that gets him in the hall, but it's incredibly impressive
Innings are outs. That has a lot of value. I’m unsure myself if Buerhle is a HoFer, but that’s his case right there. Innings and very consistently a good pitcher
Andruw Jones fWAR: 67 WAR, Torii Hunter fWAR: 43 WAR. And the way Fangraphs show his defensive ratings... he has 2 great years, and the rest of his career was mid to bad, actually has negative fWAR defensively. Torii would rob everyone of a homer, no questions there, the flashy was there, but looking at every defensive metric, he was pretty mid stat wise. Jones, via the eye test and stats, was simply one of the best ever. And had the pop. And had the 10 years of pure dominance. Jones in the HOF, Hunter just short.
Yeah, the argument that defensive metrics are suspect, therefore they erase the vast gap every defensive metric signals Jones had over Hunter is just a weak argument.
I know Beltran’s most infamous onfield moment is the strikeout looking against closer Waino, but bro had a career 3/4/6 slash line in the playoffs over 65 games
They should make a Hall of Shame wing at the Hall of Fame. So my generation, when we take our kids, we can tell them about the players we watched in the 90's and early 00"s
Please, I get Soto is good, but to say his career started like Teddy Ballgame??? I keep hearing this. I mean, have people not actually looked at how Williams started his career?
Not even a mention of Omar? One of, if not the, best defensive SS ever. He won 11 Gold Gloves at SS and was still a starter there at age 40. He's practically had the same career as Ozzie Smith.
@wavedash101 Ozzie probably was better defensively, but I don't think people are giving Omar enough credit. He did win 11 gold gloves at SS. For whatever it's worth, he had a 29.5 defensive WAR. Offensively, Omar has approximately 400 more hits, 50 more HR, and 160 more RBI. Ozzie has 180 more SB, but Omar still had over 400. Their slash lines are very similar; Ozzie .262/.337/.328 vs Omar .272/.336/.352. Ozzie had a slight edge in OPS+ at 87 vs 82.
Vizquel had nearly 400 games and 1300 PAs over Ozzie yet Ozzie has far better totals in in batting runs, baser runs and fielding runs, which is why his WAR is so much higher despite it being a counting stat. Ozzie also stole 180 more bases than Omar while being caught less times. Ozzie was a much better player overall. And he doesnt have any outside nastiness to contend with unlike Omar. @@jcarwash31
@jayclean5653 I don't remember the off field stuff, so yeah maybe that's a disqualifier, but he was no worse a hitter than Ozzie Smith was. Their hitting stats are very similar. Omar was 10 points higher on AVG, OBP is nearly exactly the same, Omar is 24 points higher SLG, and 22 points higher OPS. OPS+ is 87 vs 82 (both are terrible) in favor of Ozzie, who got to spend a lot of his career in an era where light hitters were much more prevalent.
Every franchise i started in Baseball Mogul started with trying to add either Todd Helton, Travis Lee, or Brad Fullmer. In retrospect, i want to say I preferred Helton, but I gotta be honest. I think I favored Lee and Fullmer. If i was playing as an AL franchise, i would try to get two of the three and just dh whichever one was the poorer fielder. This has nothing to do with this video. Other than to say I've been playing that game long enough for a whole hof career. While Helton was making a HOF case, I was parked in front of my pc playing a game.
love Trevor but it’s annoying when he tries to switch topics when the convo is getting interesting. The steroid era segment could’ve went on way longer.
Man, we just let everyone in. This ballot is light. Wagner, Beltre, Andruw Jones, Beltran, and MAYBE Helton. Just because they played a long time, they were liked by other players, and were very good doesn't earn you into Cooperstown.
This is how I think about the steroid dudes. There’s suspicions about everyone in the 90’s and Bonds and Clemens and Pettitte. I chose to say it was the Wild Wild West. They weren’t testing for those then. So free game. As soon as they began testing for them and you got popped for PED’s. Your career is forever tainted. Yes A-Rod is one of the best baseball players ever. He failed 2 drug tests and now I can’t separate if what he did was because of his talent or if it was because of PED’s. That’s where I draw the line. Rosey has talked about it and I like how he has put it. A-Rod, Manny, Cano, and Tatis are tainted. In my eyes, they do not deserve to be enshrined in Cooperstown. They can still have moments in the museum part but they don’t get a plaque.
I like hearing Trevs thoughts on the steroid situation with the ballot, and it is always hilarious to hear his takes on A-Rod. I can only imagine what it would be like to be a clean professional baseball player and see others cheat the sport. If they are allowed in, it minimises the rightful shame that should be placed on cheaters. For the people who say (they are just the guys who got caught), well then shame them for being too stupid to hide it well. Either way, the result should be the same.
If it's a 5 year peak, Jose Bautista has an outside chance to gather some votes. 2010-2015 Jose is a HOF, but outside of that 5 years, maybe 6 with 2016, he is not.
i thought this years ballot it would be a struggle to take guys off my fake ballot, but really i only have 9 guys i really want, and then Matt Holliday just to keep him on the ballot next year
The birds getting those vets is good. Just a stop gap for our young arms. That's the goal. I feel like they expect most those guys to fall apart at some point
11:02 how would the Martian not be the best prospect in the Yankees system? There’s no doubt he will be productive in the majors, jones is still a question makr
Alright, first of all, I’m sorry, but I really think that someone needs to really talk about some hard facts about the Steroid Era. It’s a subject that I’m very passionate about because it’s been so controlled of a narrative that even former players side against players. And I think I may be posting this other places because honestly it’s embarrassing. 1. Just a brief history of the history of PEDS in baseball. I also want to say that I am sticking solely to players who have openly stated to have used them more than once, or people who have been claimed to have used them by someone under oath. Tom House came out stating that the 60s/70s were riddled with pitching staffs taking HGH, Greenies, and steroids. (He did come out and said he misspoke but please read on for more info that makes this seem quite likely) Mike Schmidt admitted to using greenies because he was curious( wonder why he would think they may help?) why isn’t he ever even talked about? The 1985 Pittsburg drug trials saw Willie Stargell and Willie Mays accused of giving them to teammates and use respectively. Do want to note both had black teammates who accused them, looked it up because the idea it was racially charged came to mind(still could be). Tim Raines was an avid Cocaine user, with similar effects to greenies, who admitted to using even during games. Pud Galvin openly spoke to using them in 1888! Torre and others even spoke about how big a problem it was in the mid 90s. 2. Bud Selig, and a large conglomerate of the media covering baseball, if not all, knew baseball players were taking steroids as early as 1998. (See Wilstein and how he was treated by others in the media when he reported about McGwire, where he even said it was a legal substance). 3. The reason for this is because the steroid era was an extremely profitable time for the entire baseball industry in America and no one wanted the cash cow to go away. 4. After it came out Bud pulled a Vince McMahon and said oh no, I had no idea! It has come to light he did know and now says that he wanted to, but that the players union wouldn’t go for it. Lest we not forget Selig was at the 1973 Congressional hearing when they told baseball there was half the league using PEDs. So at the very least 1/3 of baseball commissioners knew about PED usage and did nothing (given Pud, likely all) 5. Even after he passed the ban of steroids Selig put in place a system to allow players to petition to use them for a limited amount of reasons. 6. One of the players who asked and was granted permission was ARod. How unimaginable is it that he thought after all the at they must really not want me to now in the third year when it was denied. Personally I’d be thinking it’s a damn joke. So before any actual investigation was done they knew he was because he had told them he had used them after the ban. 7. This is the real kicker to me. Especially with players who want to act like any player who took steroids shouldn’t be in the hall. The mf gd COMMISIONER who KNEW that players were taking steroids and actively made sure he was protected from scandal is in it! So let’s punish the players, not the league, not the commissioner, but the players! Holy hell it makes me so mad to see players hating on players and not actually speaking about how the whole industry was protecting them because they were good for their pockets. 8.Sorry, I didn’t even think of this part of the hypocrisy, the very same people who vote for the hall are the people who have openly admitted they “dropped the ball.” This is a LABOUR pod right? Let’s stick up for them and not for the billionaires who are profiting off them. If anyone thinks that players don’t make their teams an insane amount more money than they make why is it that Ohtani is guaranteed to make whatever team he goes to more then the half billion he should get. Why is it that despite losing for the entirety of the Pujols deal that the Angels valuation went from 600m to 2 billion. 9th highest.
So steroid users from the steroid era are a no-go because they're cheaters but Carlos Beltran who was basically the ringleader of the Astros trash cans scandal is A-okay? I don't follow
I hate how so many voters are and how out of touch they are with reality. Love the ballot guys I just hope wright gets a long run on the ballot he had a HOF career robbed of him due to injuries and that’s my guy
Exactly JAKE, how is the Martino report an update? From the very beginning you are exchanging names! It's a trade negotiation. What else are you talking about! 🤦🙄
Beltre Helton Beltran Arod Mauer Hunter Utley should all be in. Additionally, Clemens Bonds Schilling Bernie Williams Andy Pettite (to a lesser extent) Should all be in
for the question of steroid guys in the hall, its just silly to act like there haven't been rampant performance enhancing substances throughout every era of baseball, yes the steroid era was more out in the open but really that was just because testing standards ramped up. test the old guys for amphetamine use, or modern players for adderall adjacent chemicals and honestly i bet it goes way deeper and way weirder than most casual fans can speculate. for instance, psychedelic mushrooms, at low doses, have proven to improve visual acuity and focus, i bet that would help picking up spin on a pitch, also, they leave zero chemical traces in the system so there is no way to test for their use.
Beltran cheated with the 2017 Astros. That was worse than steroids, they knew the pitches coming. Beltran doesn’t belong in the HOF if Arod, Bonds, and Charlie Hustle don’t get in.
My personal rules for HOF voting (not that I actually have a vote, just my opinion) in regards to steroids is this. If you have one positive test AFTER league wide testing was implemented, you need to be an inner circle guy to get in. If you have two positive tests after league wide testing was implemented, you're out completely. That means guys like ARod and Manny are out.
I think you just put them in and have a Steroid Wing or whatever. It was so prevalent in that era you’re going to tell me there’s no guys in there right now who used too? It’s part of the game and one that was absolutely facilitated by the league for a LONG time.
@@dcsoda1yes, it was definitely facilitated by the league for a period in the late 90s-early 00s. That's why I say if you got busted after they started testing regularly (and they made sure everyone knew they were testing) then you are punished more so than the guys who were caught or admitted before. Everyone knows Big Papi was on the Mitchell Report, but he never tested positive after that. The Mitchell Report released before league wide testing, so I don't mind Ortiz being in the Hall. I also believe that Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc. should be in.
@@blakecheboyganif you're talking about greenies and Adderall and such, some guys have medical conditions that make those a necessity. As far as "flaxseed oil" the only case I can find on that in my (limited) searching is Bonds' trial statements that he "thought he was taking flaxseed oil." I know other guys have tried to mask their failed tests by saying that's what they took, like Braun, Melky, guys like that, but those are usually quickly disproven.
Honestly the MLB's hall of fame is kind of running joke among sports fans. I mean there is a KKK member inducted but they wont let two of the best players ever in because of steroid use. Barry Bonds has 162 career WAR 4th most ever haha. Thats just one example of the ridiculousness.
I'm not a boomer, but nerds have ruined baseball. Hate that take all you want, but it's true. Bunch of dudes that didn't even get participation trophies growing up decide who is and isn't in the HoF is a joke.
The Hall has always been decided by journalists and writers. There was never a "back in my day" that a bunch of "participation trophy guys" weren't the ones choosing the ballot winners. Nor a time when numbers werent a huge part of why people got elected.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Jake is always one Puka shelll necklace/letterman jacket combo away from looking like every 90's movie high school bully.
Anyone that doesn’t vote for Todd Helton because of “cOoRs” clearly never saw him play in the early-mid 2000s. He was simply just freaking good.
I better not be the only one that reads "cOoRs" in Foolish baseball's voice every single time
Coors was a joke. Jeffery Hammonds played there 1 season and was an All-Star, enough said.
What were his splits home and away? Would solve that debate wouldn’t it?
@blakecheboygan Not really. Most players have better numbers at home than on the road.
Hey Watch your language
No other AL catcher has ever won a batting title and Mauer has 3! His catching was cut short but he still caught for 10 years!
This might be the absolute best podcast to listen to while working out
Maybe warming up, idk about being 30 reps deep.
@@ZevAidikoff to each their own. I go full workout with the JM shows
How can you focus on your lift tho?
Agreed!!!
7:47 “The juice is there, it’s just when are we gonna squeeze it.” I am IMMEDIATELY adding that to my every day vocabulary.
Billy Wagner should have been in the HOF years ago.
Exactly. It's a crime that he wasnt a first ballot HOFer.
Loving all the Adrián Beltré talk! Loved watching him play when he was with the Rangers! I've never been to Cooperstown before, but I plan on being there when he gets inducted in July!
39:10
Jake: "You have to look this man in the fence"
To jakes point on Mantle having an overall negative defensive war for his career, didnt he tear his knee on a sprinkler head in center field and they didnt have the technology to fix it yet so he just played the rest of his career with a torn knee?
Steroid users not being allowed in the hall but Astros players like altuve likely being allowed in is ridiculous
Altuve also didnt cheat theres proof
If guys like Springer and Correa were getting in as much as. i like them thered be a problem
@@Toews1247 the best player on the black Sox didn’t cheat / played well in the series, yet he’s banned.
@@bigpictureguys8415 I dunno then like look at the 2016 Yankees 2018 Red Sox and 2017 Dodgers as well or what
My 2024 HOF Prediction: Helton, Wagner and Beltre get in. A lot of the other candidates are in the Hall of VERY GOOD.
Joe Mauer and Adrian Beltre are all I really care about right now.
I'd also like to point out with Buerhle that he has the most 200+ inning seasons of any pitcher after the year 2000 with 14. Number 2 is Justin Verlander with 12. I'm not sure that gets him in the hall, but it's incredibly impressive
Innings are outs. That has a lot of value. I’m unsure myself if Buerhle is a HoFer, but that’s his case right there. Innings and very consistently a good pitcher
He's not a hall of famer, but he was one of my favorite pitchers growing up. He's a clear cut Hall of very good.
Trev embracing the fall fit. Jake in black Air Force gear 😮💨
Andruw Jones fWAR: 67 WAR, Torii Hunter fWAR: 43 WAR. And the way Fangraphs show his defensive ratings... he has 2 great years, and the rest of his career was mid to bad, actually has negative fWAR defensively. Torii would rob everyone of a homer, no questions there, the flashy was there, but looking at every defensive metric, he was pretty mid stat wise. Jones, via the eye test and stats, was simply one of the best ever. And had the pop. And had the 10 years of pure dominance. Jones in the HOF, Hunter just short.
Yeah, the argument that defensive metrics are suspect, therefore they erase the vast gap every defensive metric signals Jones had over Hunter is just a weak argument.
I know Beltran’s most infamous onfield moment is the strikeout looking against closer Waino, but bro had a career 3/4/6 slash line in the playoffs over 65 games
Jim Edmonds was probably more known with robbing home runs in the same time perios.
24:31 you guys not mentioning Beltre and Elvis just having a great time on the left side of the infield is criminal.
50:06 trev, let’s say you took(or frankly most of) players took steroids you’re still not making the hall.
I need Jim edmonds back on the ballet speaking of just all time CF
25:21 mine was "Damn Daniel" so annoying. Lol
David Ortiz is in the hall. Why are the other guys avoided? Ricky Henderson’s acceptance speech by Ricky Henderson was illuminating in this regard.
Question: So if you have a "no cheating" rule prohibiting steroid users, how do you allow Beltran and his trash can banging?
because he's being voted on based upon the merit of his playing career, not his coaching career.
@@juicerversion1236Considering Beltran was actively playing on The Astros roster during the 2017 season, this comment is null and void.
@@TheHandofChuck Ah fair enough. I forgot that 2017 was his final year of play.
anyone have a link to the hoodie trev is wearing today
They should make a Hall of Shame wing at the Hall of Fame. So my generation, when we take our kids, we can tell them about the players we watched in the 90's and early 00"s
Please, I get Soto is good, but to say his career started like Teddy Ballgame??? I keep hearing this. I mean, have people not actually looked at how Williams started his career?
Beltre, Helton, Abreu, Beltran, Wagner & Utley get my vote!
Bobby Abreu ❤❤❤ Talk about guys who were hurt by the era they played in, overshadowed by steroid era guys, but he was so good.
Doubles machine and well loved by fans where he played.
I really don't like the Ted Williams/Juan Soto comp. I think Juan Soto is a lot closer to Frank Thomas.
Beebers honorable mentions needs to be the final segment of this ep (and as many others as possible)
Not even a mention of Omar? One of, if not the, best defensive SS ever. He won 11 Gold Gloves at SS and was still a starter there at age 40. He's practically had the same career as Ozzie Smith.
No, he very much didnt. Ozzie was a better glove, runner and even with the bat.
@wavedash101 Ozzie probably was better defensively, but I don't think people are giving Omar enough credit. He did win 11 gold gloves at SS. For whatever it's worth, he had a 29.5 defensive WAR.
Offensively, Omar has approximately 400 more hits, 50 more HR, and 160 more RBI. Ozzie has 180 more SB, but Omar still had over 400. Their slash lines are very similar; Ozzie .262/.337/.328 vs Omar .272/.336/.352. Ozzie had a slight edge in OPS+ at 87 vs 82.
Vizquel had nearly 400 games and 1300 PAs over Ozzie yet Ozzie has far better totals in in batting runs, baser runs and fielding runs, which is why his WAR is so much higher despite it being a counting stat. Ozzie also stole 180 more bases than Omar while being caught less times. Ozzie was a much better player overall. And he doesnt have any outside nastiness to contend with unlike Omar. @@jcarwash31
Terrible hitter and even worse person.
@jayclean5653 I don't remember the off field stuff, so yeah maybe that's a disqualifier, but he was no worse a hitter than Ozzie Smith was. Their hitting stats are very similar. Omar was 10 points higher on AVG, OBP is nearly exactly the same, Omar is 24 points higher SLG, and 22 points higher OPS. OPS+ is 87 vs 82 (both are terrible) in favor of Ozzie, who got to spend a lot of his career in an era where light hitters were much more prevalent.
Every franchise i started in Baseball Mogul started with trying to add either Todd Helton, Travis Lee, or Brad Fullmer. In retrospect, i want to say I preferred Helton, but I gotta be honest. I think I favored Lee and Fullmer. If i was playing as an AL franchise, i would try to get two of the three and just dh whichever one was the poorer fielder. This has nothing to do with this video. Other than to say I've been playing that game long enough for a whole hof career. While Helton was making a HOF case, I was parked in front of my pc playing a game.
On the point of how dWar is calculated for older players. Jack glasscock played in the 1880s and has a dWar and zone rating.
24:37 I feel the same way. My name is Luke and I get “I am your father” and “May the force be with you” (especially on May 4th) way too much
A nice robotrev realy boosted my mood
I loved it when you used a dab pen as your pointer Trevor Plouffe. was a couple episodes ago... peak
If David Cone doesn't get in (ridiculous) Burhle doesn't get in.
You cant tell the story of baseball without Bonds and A-Rod. They have to be in the hall
love Trevor but it’s annoying when he tries to switch topics when the convo is getting interesting. The steroid era segment could’ve went on way longer.
Love the Chase Utley support. Dude didn't have the craziest longevity, but his WAR7 is more than HOF worthy
Lookin forward to "guess that dWAR"
You need to remember, Chase Utley is the King of New York. What other player has a part of an opponents ballpark named after him? "Utley's Corner"
I’m crashing in here as fast as I possibly can to scream DAVE STIEB at anyone who will listen. Look it up people!
Trev saying we shouldn't get numb to steroid allegations, but then immediately stumping for Tatis.
Ted Williams missed basically 5 SEASONS due to military service. 3 straight for WW2, then most of '52 & '53 for the Korean War.
Ortiz shouldn't get in then either.
It's the hall of shame until Don Mattingly belongs in the hall of Fame period
Man, we just let everyone in. This ballot is light. Wagner, Beltre, Andruw Jones, Beltran, and MAYBE Helton. Just because they played a long time, they were liked by other players, and were very good doesn't earn you into Cooperstown.
Runs Matter! You score runs to win the game
This is how I think about the steroid dudes. There’s suspicions about everyone in the 90’s and Bonds and Clemens and Pettitte.
I chose to say it was the Wild Wild West. They weren’t testing for those then. So free game. As soon as they began testing for them and you got popped for PED’s. Your career is forever tainted. Yes A-Rod is one of the best baseball players ever. He failed 2 drug tests and now I can’t separate if what he did was because of his talent or if it was because of PED’s. That’s where I draw the line. Rosey has talked about it and I like how he has put it. A-Rod, Manny, Cano, and Tatis are tainted. In my eyes, they do not deserve to be enshrined in Cooperstown. They can still have moments in the museum part but they don’t get a plaque.
I like hearing Trevs thoughts on the steroid situation with the ballot, and it is always hilarious to hear his takes on A-Rod. I can only imagine what it would be like to be a clean professional baseball player and see others cheat the sport. If they are allowed in, it minimises the rightful shame that should be placed on cheaters. For the people who say (they are just the guys who got caught), well then shame them for being too stupid to hide it well. Either way, the result should be the same.
If it's a 5 year peak, Jose Bautista has an outside chance to gather some votes. 2010-2015 Jose is a HOF, but outside of that 5 years, maybe 6 with 2016, he is not.
As a Padres fan, I’m not accepting any Soto trade to the Yanks that doesn’t include Dominguez
You have no idea what you’re talking about do you?
That makes zero sense
Beltre, Helton, Beltran and Wagner I think are locks this year
i thought this years ballot it would be a struggle to take guys off my fake ballot, but really i only have 9 guys i really want, and then Matt Holliday just to keep him on the ballot next year
@jolly also have them guess the offensive war as control
it's hard to buy these other center fielders as HOFers when Bernie isn't in
The birds getting those vets is good. Just a stop gap for our young arms. That's the goal. I feel like they expect most those guys to fall apart at some point
“Small Ball Matters!!”
If Mauer is in... then Mattingly gotta be in.
Drop a HITS MATTER t shirt and I’ll buy it day one
Jake looks like MC Chris today
11:02 how would the Martian not be the best prospect in the Yankees system?
There’s no doubt he will be productive in the majors, jones is still a question makr
was sheffield not even thought of? 292 lifetime average ove 500 homers🤔
Steroid user.
Mauer should be 1st ballot. Love Utley too.
Alright, first of all, I’m sorry, but I really think that someone needs to really talk about some hard facts about the Steroid Era. It’s a subject that I’m very passionate about because it’s been so controlled of a narrative that even former players side against players. And I think I may be posting this other places because honestly it’s embarrassing.
1. Just a brief history of the history of PEDS in baseball. I also want to say that I am sticking solely to players who have openly stated to have used them more than once, or people who have been claimed to have used them by someone under oath. Tom House came out stating that the 60s/70s were riddled with pitching staffs taking HGH, Greenies, and steroids. (He did come out and said he misspoke but please read on for more info that makes this seem quite likely) Mike Schmidt admitted to using greenies because he was curious( wonder why he would think they may help?) why isn’t he ever even talked about? The 1985 Pittsburg drug trials saw Willie Stargell and Willie Mays accused of giving them to teammates and use respectively. Do want to note both had black teammates who accused them, looked it up because the idea it was racially charged came to mind(still could be). Tim Raines was an avid Cocaine user, with similar effects to greenies, who admitted to using even during games. Pud Galvin openly spoke to using them in 1888! Torre and others even spoke about how big a problem it was in the mid 90s.
2. Bud Selig, and a large conglomerate of the media covering baseball, if not all, knew baseball players were taking steroids as early as 1998. (See Wilstein and how he was treated by others in the media when he reported about McGwire, where he even said it was a legal substance).
3. The reason for this is because the steroid era was an extremely profitable time for the entire baseball industry in America and no one wanted the cash cow to go away.
4. After it came out Bud pulled a Vince McMahon and said oh no, I had no idea! It has come to light he did know and now says that he wanted to, but that the players union wouldn’t go for it. Lest we not forget Selig was at the 1973 Congressional hearing when they told baseball there was half the league using PEDs. So at the very least 1/3 of baseball commissioners knew about PED usage and did nothing (given Pud, likely all)
5. Even after he passed the ban of steroids Selig put in place a system to allow players to petition to use them for a limited amount of reasons.
6. One of the players who asked and was granted permission was ARod. How unimaginable is it that he thought after all the at they must really not want me to now in the third year when it was denied. Personally I’d be thinking it’s a damn joke. So before any actual investigation was done they knew he was because he had told them he had used them after the ban.
7. This is the real kicker to me. Especially with players who want to act like any player who took steroids shouldn’t be in the hall. The mf gd COMMISIONER who KNEW that players were taking steroids and actively made sure he was protected from scandal is in it! So let’s punish the players, not the league, not the commissioner, but the players! Holy hell it makes me so mad to see players hating on players and not actually speaking about how the whole industry was protecting them because they were good for their pockets.
8.Sorry, I didn’t even think of this part of the hypocrisy, the very same people who vote for the hall are the people who have openly admitted they “dropped the ball.”
This is a LABOUR pod right? Let’s stick up for them and not for the billionaires who are profiting off them. If anyone thinks that players don’t make their teams an insane amount more money than they make why is it that Ohtani is guaranteed to make whatever team he goes to more then the half billion he should get. Why is it that despite losing for the entirety of the Pujols deal that the Angels valuation went from 600m to 2 billion. 9th highest.
Trev, lemme get that hat! please :)
I find the longevity argument a bit odd. If Shohei never had another great aeason, would he not be a hall of famer?
Utley but no wright is crazy
So steroid users from the steroid era are a no-go because they're cheaters but Carlos Beltran who was basically the ringleader of the Astros trash cans scandal is A-okay? I don't follow
My main takeaway from this ep is that Trevor hates Ted Williams
I hate how so many voters are and how out of touch they are with reality. Love the ballot guys I just hope wright gets a long run on the ballot he had a HOF career robbed of him due to injuries and that’s my guy
Exactly JAKE, how is the Martino report an update? From the very beginning you are exchanging names! It's a trade negotiation. What else are you talking about! 🤦🙄
Hunter over Abreu is quite the take
Beltre
Helton
Beltran
Arod
Mauer
Hunter
Utley should all be in.
Additionally, Clemens
Bonds
Schilling
Bernie Williams
Andy Pettite (to a lesser extent)
Should all be in
for the question of steroid guys in the hall, its just silly to act like there haven't been rampant performance enhancing substances throughout every era of baseball, yes the steroid era was more out in the open but really that was just because testing standards ramped up. test the old guys for amphetamine use, or modern players for adderall adjacent chemicals and honestly i bet it goes way deeper and way weirder than most casual fans can speculate. for instance, psychedelic mushrooms, at low doses, have proven to improve visual acuity and focus, i bet that would help picking up spin on a pitch, also, they leave zero chemical traces in the system so there is no way to test for their use.
These guys wanting Torii Hunter, Andrew Jones in the HOF is a joke. Hall of fame, not hall of good players
Andrew Jones is 100% a HOF guy. He is arguably the best defensive CF ever, and he hit around 450 HRs. That's a HOFer.
@@jayclean5653 career .254 hitter only hit .300 or better once and with the home run explosion 400 home runs is not that impressive
Beltran cheated with the 2017 Astros. That was worse than steroids, they knew the pitches coming. Beltran doesn’t belong in the HOF if Arod, Bonds, and Charlie Hustle don’t get in.
Arod is the best player ever most complete tbh
Ted Williams is a troop why is trev hatin
Maybe lukewarm take but Barry Bonds should be a HOF’er but every steroid guy after should not
You can't say Bonds was good enough to overcome steroid use and then not add Clemens who is in the same ballpark for pitchers.
My personal rules for HOF voting (not that I actually have a vote, just my opinion) in regards to steroids is this.
If you have one positive test AFTER league wide testing was implemented, you need to be an inner circle guy to get in. If you have two positive tests after league wide testing was implemented, you're out completely. That means guys like ARod and Manny are out.
I think you just put them in and have a Steroid Wing or whatever. It was so prevalent in that era you’re going to tell me there’s no guys in there right now who used too? It’s part of the game and one that was absolutely facilitated by the league for a LONG time.
Not trying to debate or what about you. What are your thoughts on speed and the “flaxseed oil” that a bunch of guys got caught with?
@@dcsoda1yes, it was definitely facilitated by the league for a period in the late 90s-early 00s. That's why I say if you got busted after they started testing regularly (and they made sure everyone knew they were testing) then you are punished more so than the guys who were caught or admitted before. Everyone knows Big Papi was on the Mitchell Report, but he never tested positive after that. The Mitchell Report released before league wide testing, so I don't mind Ortiz being in the Hall. I also believe that Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc. should be in.
@@blakecheboyganif you're talking about greenies and Adderall and such, some guys have medical conditions that make those a necessity. As far as "flaxseed oil" the only case I can find on that in my (limited) searching is Bonds' trial statements that he "thought he was taking flaxseed oil." I know other guys have tried to mask their failed tests by saying that's what they took, like Braun, Melky, guys like that, but those are usually quickly disproven.
Statefarm Jake
Honestly the MLB's hall of fame is kind of running joke among sports fans. I mean there is a KKK member inducted but they wont let two of the best players ever in because of steroid use. Barry Bonds has 162 career WAR 4th most ever haha. Thats just one example of the ridiculousness.
No Utley!!!
Buerle was a dog... you could always count on him... he's not a HOF pitcher.
I'm not a boomer, but nerds have ruined baseball. Hate that take all you want, but it's true. Bunch of dudes that didn't even get participation trophies growing up decide who is and isn't in the HoF is a joke.
The Hall has always been decided by journalists and writers. There was never a "back in my day" that a bunch of "participation trophy guys" weren't the ones choosing the ballot winners. Nor a time when numbers werent a huge part of why people got elected.
Jones it's a Hall of Fame guy 1/3 of his career, and not 2/3 of his career
lol