How short can songs get?
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
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I'm gonna cry. You're so kind, and yes you pronounced it correctly! Someone like you, who makes such amazing videos, saying these things genuinely means so much to me. And yes repetition is so important! I would compare our feelings about repetition in music to something like the hero's journey in fiction. We don't have to follow it all the time, but readers are definitely thrown off when it's not incorporated, even implicitly. It doesn't make the story bad. I would say our feelings about familiarity on a psychological level might make it harder to like, but there is something to be said about stories that break the mold being important in their own right like I commented something recently about the theater of the absurd. Those stories tend to be incredibly different structurally because the general point is that there isn't much of an actual plot in itself. You also said you grew to like Get Up, and I think that wording is important. According to the mere exposure effect, we like things more as they become more familiar. That's why we tend to "grow" to like songs, and it's not a bad thing to like something that is different, but it is important, in my opinion, to be conscious of why we do or do not like certain things if only to understand other music that we consume in a more mindful manner. I'm a very intrapersonal person though, so that could honestly just be a me thing.
The best short songs are those which don't feel like it
You and Nayeonchantix both raised very thought provoking points. I recently made a video about the bridge "dying" in kpop critiquing the current trend of songs just not having bridges and getting shorter over all, falling onto their catchy melodies and repetition to garner streams. But music is trending this way for a reason, and I haven't been able to think of many reasons as to why we as fans may allow it. I really appreciate your choice to question and defend how short kpop songs can truly get because I feel it has provided me with a lot more clarity. No matter how bare bones a song may feel, no matter how much depth it may lack, an earworm of a hook is truly all a song needs to make you want to stream it until you've worn it completely thin. It's why I completely hate the fact that not a single track on new jean's Get up album could offer a bridge or fully expand onto itself, but still found myself admitting defeat with my 348th restream of Eta. For a song like get up I still don't think I can get behind it no matter how good it's hook is. Especially after listening to @sanathathoe 's full rendition of the song (You should totally check that video out if you haven't)
While you were calling into question why song structures are so repetitive and why repetition is found in nearly every form of music. It made me think of Japanese music and why I struggle to have such a hard time getting into it. Now I'm not too familiar with Japanese music so forgive me if my take is a little broad, but after listening to a lot of it I've noticed a lot of jrock / jpop songs tend to follow completely different structures as compared to western structures. I'm talking about completely distinct verses that only appear once and don't follow similar melodies to eachother, Pre chorus's that only play once during a songs runtime, and chorus's that completely switch a key from the previously established sections. This style of music is EXTREMELY popular with a lot of crowds. But me, being so used to my western idea of song structures and repetition, have had a very difficult time adjusting to this style of music. Even though so many jpop songs I've come across have elements I adore like extremely catchy melodies, diverse instrumentation, distinct sections, etc.
I do wonder (and worry) how far the bar of short songs will be pushed in the upcoming years. (I apologize for how lengthy this comment is 😭)
Hey your video was of the Bridges in Kpop in my fyp, is on my To Watch playlist, so i'll check it later.
@@Chuu_Vault Aww, love!
@@Jayegato i'm not watching it right now, bcuz i'm trying to study for a really tough exam
Ohhh wow I just listened to the AI version of get up... now I can definitely see the vision of it being a longer song, and yeah, it leaves a lot to be desired from the original
Similar to what you said about jpop/jrock, I think the idea of 'adjusting' to new styles of music explains a lot of these types of problems that people have with music and the changing landscape of kpop right now. Nayeonchantix ended up leaving a comment mentioning this, how the conventions we come to expect in songs are what make pop music so safe for a lot of people, but as the limits of pop music get pushed, it causes a lot of discussion about what makes songs feel complete or not
Honestly, I don't really identify as problem with NewJeans' absence of bridges in their songs, but maybe that's because I tend to replay songs a lot when I'm listening to them. ETA is probably my most listened to song from the album, and I don't mind it not having a bridge, but I can't really tell you why lol
@@Chuu_Vault I hope you do well on your exam!!
Super cool video! Might sound dumb but I am for sure someone who absolutely LIVES for the pre-chorus, that explosive first chorus, bridge, and then that last, almost heavenly, firework igniting final chorus, as well as the way these parts all interconnect and interact with one another. Whilst I think repetition is super important, I think maybe I value overall song structure more? Like, no matter how catchy and short a song may be, it can't compete with the flow of a song and the feeling it invokes when you follow along and listen to its journey. Kinda like climbing a mountain to the summit. When you finally reach that point it's incredibly cathartic! So with a song like Get Up by newjeans (whilst it is a pretty damn good 35 seconds) to me, it's like there is no climb, no journey, no catharsis and no emotional high. Really enjoyed your video! It made me think about things in a new light.
The "climbing a mountain up to the summit" thing perfectly describes how I listen to songs too. For me listening to songs is a whole experience. The calmness, then the buildup, then the explosion, and the way they just blend in perfectly together is something that makes me go back and listen to songs on repeat.
That's why it kinda sucks that songs get shorter and shorter, and removing bridges in the process ruins it more.
Though I think Get Up isn't supposed to be viewed as a normal song. Imo it's like an Album intro, which usually lasts at least 30 secs.
Idk tho. Just my 2 cents. 😊
omg thanks so much for your reply! I totally agree. The way a song blends together all these parts is what makes for a more memorable and engaging experience imo. Get Up could be an intro, interlude or even outro. I was thinking about how Get Up feels incomplete and how that actually kinda fits with the narrative of the song itself? Like the song is seeking an answer: Do I matter to you?
And maybe the way it’s suddenly cut off, the way it ends so abruptly is because it got an answer, just not the one it was looking for. But that’s probably definitely me overthinking things lol.
Loved reading through your thoughts tho!
@@YumeSakuraDance I love how you describe things. Haha. "The song is seeking an answer" part. Never thought of it that way. And I do agree. Even if it's short, the song somehow feels complete. Get Up alone feels incomplete, but if you put it in the context that it's an intro, interlude, or finale to an album, it just suddenly makes sense.
this comment sounds poetic af
Tbh, I didn't even know Get Up was a separate track. I always thought it was part of "Cool With You" because of that one MV. Haha.
Idk if you have listened to punk/metal albums, but they usually have a 30 to 50 second track that plays first in their album. It's called the Album Intro. It doesn't have lyrics in it as it's purely instrumental. It serves as their "warm up" track in concerts and it's also a way for them to show off their individual skills. An example of this is "Alerion" by Asking Alexandria. I KNOW it's 2 minutes long but some bands do that for just 30 to 60 secs. This is just the album intro that's on top of my head rn. Haha.
With that said, I see Get Up as something like an album intro. Well, except for the fact that it's in the middle of the heckin album. So it's passable as a song for me. Barely a song. I would assume people aren't used to seeing these type of tracks in KPop, maybe that's why some people are against it.
They could've done so much with it tho. It's not just simple beats and synths. Instrumentally, it's actually quite well structured. Kind of disappointing they didn't do that, but it's still a good track imo. Just... too short. Too short in a good way in this case. iykwim.
And yes. You're pronouncing my name correctly. People usually butcher it but you got it the first time. Hahah. It's like the name "Kai" then just add "Ji" to it. Thanks so much for including me in this video! I appreciate it ❤️ I was jumping up and down as I saw it. In my mind I was like "Oh God am I famous now? MA, I MADE IT!" XD
@chuuwantsomeofthis I'm glad my comment inspired you.😊 Pop Music in general, not just KPop do borrow concepts from Rock, Metal, and Punk. I usually see this in their song structures. NMIXX for example, the switch ups are new to KPop, but it's totally old school to heavy music. So yeah, that's a reaaaally good idea for a video. 👌🔥
@chuuwantsomeofthis thanks! You seem pretty cool yourself 😊
That's an interesting idea - treating the song 'get up' more like an introductory piece/the heart of the project in some way
I've always been confused as to why the song was so short, considering it's the namesake of the album, but it makes a lot more sense to treat it kind of like a vibe check rather than an interlude lol. It leaves a lot to be desired based on the general reception to how short it is, but maybe that's intentional? haha
@@choujimi the song being short could definitely be intentional. And yeah, it could be an interlude, could be an intro. It could be anything really. But it would make more sense imo to put the track as an intro to the album rather than put it in the middle. It sounded good enough to be a mood setter for the whole album. Like an appetizer for the main course. Haha.
I know we're on the topic of short songs, but I think this song in particular is different. I don't think it's the effect of "shortification" (lol) of songs. It's just meant to be short coz it's not really supposed to be a full song. Album intros like that are usually merged in with actual songs from the album, just like how it was merged with Cool With You.
Not really sure, just opinions. Haha. In the end, we might never know what it really is. Haha. A good twist would be, if they make this a full fledged song for their next comeback. Pretty sure the song would slap. Well, it's NewJeans, they always slap.
as a kpop fan who is also a massive beatles fan i kinda love short kpop songs cus i love avant-garde stuff
I always find your videos so thought-provoking and this one is no exception. I've been making progress towards developing content for a ktube channel of my own and can't thank you enough for inspiring me with your previous video on older kpop fans.
That’s such a nice thing to say, thank you! I’m excited to see what you’ve been working on!!
Love this video! You always make them well thought out and I love your points here. Short songs only works IF they actually sound full or complete. Songs from New Jeans for example, simply just isn’t that. A song that is short, but feels complete for example would be Bite Me from Enhypen. The overall structure of the song doesn’t feel short and feels complete, despite it being only a few over 2 minutes. Companies are only doing this because it’s like a trend right now. And at the end of the day, their main goal and purpose is to make money. I do understand having a catchiness and repetitiveness is one of the main factors of a song, but that can’t be what should be the main focus of a song. Structure is really important and without that, your song has no kind of flow whatsoever.
Bite me is such a good example!! I never realized how short it was until now 😭 the structure really does make it feel like a longer/more developed song
@@choujimi Right! Bite Me is in my opinion an example of a short song that feels like a whole song. Like when you listen to it, you barely even realized the song is that short because it keeps that structure in it that makes it complete.
Let's ask ASAP and Bad Reputation, hey guys how does it feel to be the best song on your EP and not even surpass (or barely do it) 2 minutes of run time?
Side note: Nayeonchantix is a main slayer, they are that 🍑 💅✨
Hi I really enjoyed your video and think you brought UP (pun intended) a really important point.
My thoughts on “Get Up” are IT’S JUST AN ITRO NOT CALLED “INTRO”
Sorry, I have a little strong feelings on short songs.
Also thank you so much for introducing a new kTuber to me, there probably gonna have the same faith as you after Taejiu shouted you out lol. Have great rest of your day!❤️
I think the general answer to this question is “however long or short they want it to be,” which I don’t really mind. My issue with song length is when a label expects me to pay the same amount of money for a 12 minute EP verses a 40 minute EP. It doesn’t make sense, nor feel fair to me. Great video as always
I don’t consider “Get Up” to be a song because it’s not a song it’s an interlude. However I don’t really mind the song being short at all and I don’t really think it needs to be longer. All the songs that NewJeans have that are below 2 minutes are not full songs they are the Intro track (New Jeans), interlude track (Get Up), and Outro track (ASAP) which is mentioned in the albums description when they released the tracklist. A lot of people complained about wanting more 3 Minutes songs but when I listen to the EP and other songs less than 3 minutes I don’t really notice or mind that the songs are not “standard length”.
Whether repetition is good is entirely subjective and not objective. Also. There's a difference between a SONG and INTERLUDES imo. A song has a full on structure in the classic or near classic order you expect it. Anything differentiating from that formula is considered either an intro, outro or interlude. (Someone who studies music atm). If I see a 2 min piece that is literally no longer than 2:00 mins I will treat it as an intro, outro or interlude depending on where they are placed on the album. Longer than 4 minutes is actually very acceptable. Shorter than 2 mins? Just no. It ain't a song anymore.
I think what you said definitely applies to pop songs, but especially in the punk/rock/metal genres it's not unusual to have either 30 second songs (punk, hardcore, speed metal in fact oftentimes barely average more than a minute), or 7-20 minute songs with a long buildup and no proper chorus (progressive rock, math rock, post rock). Pop music in that regard certainly has its limitations as it's meant to be as catchy and memorable as possible like you said and needs some repeating parts to be general public friendly.
For example there's a running gag in the speed metal community where someone is 10 minutes late to the concert and missed the whole show 💀😂
I didn’t know that about those genres having short songs! Are they more like interludes, or treated as actual songs in their own right?
Wait I think Nayeonchantix is subbed to me. And if they’re not idc their content is SO amazing. I hope they keep up what their doing because we need more people like them in the Ktube side of yt
As short as the creator of the song wants? 😅
PS: I didn’t even notice it was super short because it fits and feels so well. The fact that so much discussions have been had about this I think is what makes kpop fans different than other music fans I have known so far. I have also never heard as much discussion on bridge and pre chorus as I had the past 2 years I started getting curious about kpop. I am not making any judgement on whether this is good or bad. Just that these stood out to me as unusual. For me.
That's a good point haha - artists and producers can do whatever they want as long as it's art to them