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A very interesting reminder of a race that changed yachting. I was sailing in the British Team on a 50 footer called Blizzard with a highly experienced crew of 14. I started my career in the ‘60’s in Australia and my first Hobart was on a 27 footer called Zilvergeest. So I count 7 Hobarts and about the same number of Fastnets. We rounded the Rock at about 0300 and started to hear the radio distress calls. Our wind indicator was pinned on 70 knots so we made the decision to stop racing and get home without becoming a burden to the rescue services by pushing our luck. I know Matt Sheahan and knew a few others who lost their lives that day. It was all very distressing. The IOR Rule came out in 1969 and it’s fair to say that it stalled yacht design for fifteen years. Its introduction coincided with mass produced glass fibre boats and marinas both of which attracted new people into the sport. New and inexperienced sailors. Before that it is fair to say that we raced because we loved sailing and it was a relatively unknown activity to the public. Wet and unfashionable. At this time I worked in Nicholsons and was the resident IOR consultant tweaking handicaps. The rule was supposed to mathematically handicap any existing yacht up to about 70 feet. As soon as it was introduced designers started to design new boats which concentrated, not on speed, but on lowering the handicap. The beam was the first measurement and was put in because it REDUCES speed and gains a lower handicap. The rule also penalised stability and broad transoms while giving credit for a deep forefoot. These features coupled with high aspect ratio rigs and unbalanced sail areas under spinnaker produced yachts that were dangerous in inexperienced hands when pushed to racing limits. The ’79 Fastnet had been preceded by two easy, light wind races 77 and 75 which meant that the new sailors considered it a fashionable event for chaps and chapesses to have on the social calendar. This is why many were caught out in ill equipped yachts and no experience of the conditions - which I have to say were pretty awe inspiring. After IOR we reinvented stability and better hull and rig design. I am a yacht designer and one of my Europa 30 footers was cruising the Bristol Channel in the ‘79 gale crewed by an architect and his wife and two kids of 11 and 13 en route to Devon from Cardiff. They made it through a terrible night and anchored in Lundy Island. The place was deserted - but they found the entire 30 population in the tiny church praying for the yacht they had seen founder during the night. In fact the Matthais family stood at the back of their own memorial service.
Wow, Imagine walking in and the church are praying for you. Needless to say god was recognised by the church that night. Any chance I could call on your expertise in yacht design for future videos. Others have pointed out I didnt get it quite right and Id appreciate a glance over some stories in the future so I dont walk headlong into another blunder. If youre up for it, please drop me an email on paulpnel@gmail.com
As a new sailor and first time boat builder (45ft), thanks to all the salty sailor chiming in here with tales! A sobering reminder to build well, prepare well.
Great comment, thank you for your insight. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that the PHRF handicap system which was based on boat performance and measurements was introduced in the early 70s and it eventually replaced the IOR for handicapping boats, because it was a logical, fair system.
As a skipper of many years I have one major issue with this boat. A sail boat that cannot right itself on a nock down is not a sea worthy boat and should not even be on the water let alone out there.
this seems like good advice - probably better than the kid yelling "boomer" with the screen name "Your Mom is a Ho" serving cold hotdogs at the gas station
An extremely clear and concise commentary, one of the best I have ever seen. The well-illustrated and straight-forward points made about wave formation and behaviour, and how racing rules influence boat design, are excellent learning points even for experienced sailors. I have had the privilege of talking and sailing with survivors of the '79 Fastnet and their experiences profoundly influenced my own attitudes towards safety preparations and sailing practices on my own boats.
Six months after this I launched on a SAR mission from Lajes Field in response to a Mayday from an American boat that had been in this race. I was the AC of a USN P-3B. The crew was attempting to sail back to the U.S. and their boat had been dismasted in an enormous storm. It was late at night, the ceiling was around 800 feet, and the winds were gusting in excess of 50 kts. We found the boat -in fact I had to ask the crew to stop firing flares at me. The sea state and winds were so high it was pointless to drop the SAR package, because it would have just rolled away with the wind. We found a freighter about 30 miles away but couldn’t get it to respond on VHF. So, I buzzed the bridge a couple of times and then dropped a line of smoke markers (which show up as flares at night) indicating where I wanted the ship to go. The master got the message and turned to follow the lights. Two hours later the freighter reached the sailboat, and the master did an amazing job coming alongside the boat to rescue the crew. I was talking to the sailboat skipper the entire time. He remained calm and collected, even as his boat was sinking. I remember him telling me he and the crew were from Massachusetts. Never did collect the case of beer he promised me. This boat survived Fastnet but the winter time North Atlantic did her in.
Wow, amazing story. I was an offshore sailor briefly, but a couple nights alone on the ocean in a storm was enough to turn me off forever. I always wanted to cross the pacific, but I don't think I'll ever do it now.
Hi Macrib What can I say. I am Chris Freer and I’ve worked in every aspect of yacht design, marketing, racing and construction all over the planet for more than 60 years (now 80) and in that time I have watched the industry grow from nothing to the mega rich environment it is today. So back to 1969 and the IOR. The time when Apollo 11 landed on the moon with less computing power than a basic ‘phone. And that is what you must consider. The GRP yacht business was just starting and I arrived in UK from Aus in 1970 to run the first and only marina in the Solent at Campers. Admirals Cup was sailed from the piles opposite Lallows in Cowes. We hand drew and lofted the lines of yachts and then hand built them, normally in wood. All calculation was by hand or slide rule because the pocket calculator arrived in about 1974. A big yacht at the time was about 55 with 70 footers like Ticonderga and Stormvogel regarded with awe. Yachting was male, uncomfortable and for those who loved sailing - ladies didn’t want to get in a dinghy after a drive down from town and ‘camp’ in a smelly damp yacht on a pile mooring - there was no public awareness of racing or any social status to owning a yacht. The Cowes ‘balls’ were for the rather scruffy competitors not the swanky ‘down from towners’ - ladies came over on the ferry and stayed in hotels. Because the international scene was growing there was a desire to use one rule to handicap yacht racing fairly. In Aus we used RORC rule as did the Poms but the Yanks used CCA and the Frogs had no rules at all as far as we could tell. So a very worthy team of designers created the IOR. It was not written to be ‘designed’ to. It was meant to rate the yachts of its time by a series of measurements create a fair ‘rating’ for offshore racing. So the creators looked at what made boats slow or fast in the their day and generated a mathematical system running to 74 pages. I still have my copy. Things which made yachts go ‘fast’ were stability, narrow beam, powerful ends, long overhangs, oversize sails (150% J ring any bells). Things that made boats slow were heavy displacement, beam, short ends, low stability, inefficient fractional rigs and big engine installations. There was no idea to equate the wetted area of long keel boats to fin and skeg because the latter were very few and far between. You get the picture. We rarely designed boats specifically for rule in those days - customers wanted nice looking boats with good accommodation (Pacha) for cruising and seagoing strength in all departments. They raced their cruisers. Sail inventories were very limited and low tech and many still had wooden ,masts and galvanised rigging. But things were changing rapidly as the ‘civilised’ world got wealthier and started looking for new things to do with money. The key events were the advent of cheap mass produced GRP yachts, cheap marinas to keep them in and low interest rates coupled to tax relief on loans. Marinas with loos attracted more ladies and this led to the desire to socialize with the local natives in the yacht clubs - especially if they were ‘Royal’ and had a decent restaurant. The boom was on. Morgan jackets and yellow wellies. This is the answer to your question. The entry point of the maths for the new rule was the beam measurement. Big beam initiated a low handicap because it affected the depths midships and forward as well as the aft and forward girth slopes. We also had the angular midships measurement which falsified displacement. (remember rating bumps) The forward depth stations were important so we had narrow waterlines fwd with deep sections. Bow down trim lowered rating so, downwind, the bow immersion could overpower the rudder and narrow stern sections and cause a broach. The big spinnakers and narrow mainsails on the masthead rigs set the centre of effort way off centreline and caused helming problems. All this with a rule which penalised stability. The high displacement length ratios coupled to the low lift bows meant that the boats did not surf easily or respond to gusts by surfing, they just rolled, another reason for loss of control. The IOR governors responded to any innovation with a ‘Banning Committee’ - bloopers, full battened mainsails, twin rudders, trim tabs, asymmetric dagger boards, carbon rigs, gennakers etc etc all got banned. The engine allowance EPF was a joke and meant that boats of this generation on the market now usually have lousy installations. The punters rushed to the cruiser racer production boats and fleets increased, but those who wanted to win bought stripped out boats and re-added the weight with internal ballast which made the boats more stable and reduced pitching moments. They also hired heavy crew - rail meat - and hired rating consultants like me to optimise the rating process with a few tricks we knew. The ordinary punter didn’t have a chance. Then we went into an era of custom IOR race boats - about 1975 - and the fleets started to decline because production boats could not compete and the racing became the growing preserve of the rich owner with a semi pro crew. By about 1981 it was all over and fleets went into steady decline, although the Rule staggered on until IMS and CHS and the rest of the new rules took over with a little more success and common sense. The IOR rule produced a ‘look’. The 51 degree bow profile, the pinched stern and the IOR keel. Boats won races not on speed but handicap - you came in a day late and ‘won’ - hence the statement that IOR put yacht design back. But the advertising of race wins led the punters to believe that fast boats won races. If we had tried to sell a plumb bow, fat transom, bulb keeled yacht with a genneker the punters would have laughed and run a mile because it did not have ‘the look’ or that all important ‘rating’. Remember the horror which greeted the first Renault Espace when it hit the UK market (those practical Frogs throwing away the rule book again) - today every wannabee school run mum wants the biggest people carrier.) As designers and boat builders we could do nothing. Give the sheep what the journalists and yacht club ‘experts’ told them to buy and take the dosh - or go bankrupt as a pioneer. It has taken over 20 years for the public to get the message that they have freedom of choice. Why should a self elected committee and their rule dictate your enjoyment and investment. The trouble is that fashion and myth dominates a fundamentally amateur sport and owners and crews regurgitate bar room technology with little technical knowledge. The trend in newly designed ‘classics’ is a case in point. They are fashion anachronisms in denial of all the innovations (why build a heavy displacement ‘replica’ in carbon fibre !!!!) which make modern yachts more useful, enjoyable, habitable and much easier to sail. Why did people idolize Swans. Not competitive - horrible, uncomfortable exposed cockpits and cramped companionways and gloomy interiors like tombs. Sailing Range Rovers. Furling gears, better hull designs, broad transoms and big cockpits, twin wheels, fully battened mains, big engines, proper stability, cruising chutes, carbon rigs etc etc have transformed yachts and made them appropriate to the real needs of modern sailors - if they can take the time to listen.
Hi Chris, I have a yacht from that era: a Rival 32. Presumably it was designed to the rules of the time. It has a bow overhang, small transom and 120% genoa. The reason I went down this line was because it is very comfortable in high wind. I have been in F9 from Azores to UK and been quite relaxed. And it is easy to sail short-handed. It is also quite slow and uncomfortable upwind and has a very uncomfortable cockpit (big cushions required)! So I am a bit confused; are the wide-transom, plumb bow, modern designs more comfortable/safer in big seas? Or just faster and more comfortable? (and beyond my budget 🙂). Matt
@@matthughes6474 Hi Matt - interesting questions. Peter Brett, your designer came to lunch with me in 1978 because he wanted to retire but did not want the Rival name to be lost and he was looking for a designer to take over. It came to nothing because his daughter wanted to do the job but lost interest so the brand died. Rival I seem to remember because it was a plastic boat competing with the Nich 32. The Rival would have been measured to the old RORC Rule (before IOR) and was one of the first to have a fin and skeg making it reasonably competitive. Boats of that era were old style in terms of displacement length ratio and were relatively narrow with lower freeboards than today. Also they tended to be undercanvased and more heavily rigged. Solid, safe, dependable, wet upwind and not much good in the light stuff. I guess a modern yacht would be a bit more comfortable but the real answer is that modern nav aids allow us to passage plan for better weather and we see sailing as a pleasurable sunny experience around the Greek Islands more than the old ‘heroic manly battle’ against the forces of nature. Boats are now designed to be comfortable live aboards with the occasional foray to sea. They serve a different sort of sailor (and sailors wife). As to cockpit comfort - that's is a personal bug of mine. There is a book on anthropometrics which yacht designers have never opened. I have a drawing in the office which gives the correct dimensions for a comfortable cockpit for the ‘average’ person including elbow height, lumbar support as well as the correct angles for the seat and backrest etc etc. Go to a boat show - you will find most boats even the most expensive have board flat cockpit seats. My bum is curved and there is a correct seat dimension for it. When I go to dinner in a Portuguese restaurant I always take my cushion because they all have flat seats - torture.
Mr Freer, thank you for that "global" view and perspective on the era and "evolution" of sailing yachts and the industry which has occured in my lifetime. i have also spent my working life in the industry(at a much humbler level than you) and can recall a a teen and young adult questioning some of the reasons for certain designs and processes. You answer many of those here in a way I have not seen before. Cheers
I just wanted to post and thank you for such an insightful comment! I recently purchased an Evetts 31 (1980 IOR) and have been learning to sail (really enjoying the boat!). I’d wondered what the “why” was around its shape compared to the rest of the marina and your write up helped a great deal. Thanks!
By focussing on one boat the author was able to make a succinct video picking up the important points particularly about how designers were focussing on speed rather than seaworthiness. I was on a wooden long keeled cruising boat a bit further south in Biscay. We eventually took down all sail, trailed warps and endured a very difficult 24 hours. One thing alluded to in the video was that in the Fastnet many boats were abandoned by their crews but survived the storm. Often it is the human reaction that a "life raft" will be better than the mother boat, even though it is a flimsy vulnerable inflatable and in reality offers less protection than the yacht which was abandoned.
The first tuber who understands water line/resistance. When a subject’s understanding is intuitive, the delivery can be tailored to maximize comprehension.
Loved your video. Thx Re: abandoning to a life raft The rule I was bought up with is ‘never step down into a life raft from a boat, only get off the boat when you have to step up into the life raft!
Great video, thank you for the analysis. It often escapes modern era sailors what these rules are there for, until the shit hits the fan. As an offshore amateur I have done a number of races. The recent 2023 Gotland Runt (Round Gotland [Baltic Sea]), a top level international event, saw 85% of the fleet retire due to the conditions. I was helming in heavy sea state with cresting waves of 4 - 5 metres in a X-442 with far too much sail up for the 45 knot winds. I have done some dramatic things, Everest and seen the Fastnet up close, so I wasn't completely out of my comfort zone. But as nav I had fought and lost a battle over using the J2. It was exhausting to helm with so much power on. We were crushing it in the standings, but with 40% of the race done, we were already reduced from three watches to two as the crew was thinning out due to seasickness and exhaustion. I took to my sail bag bunk once my watch ended and was resting up, when all hell broke loose. We were headed on a crest and the boat spun in wild gibes and smack downs. I braced myself between the galley wall and a hand hold in the coach roof. The helm did their best as the boat completed a 720 pirouette. We caught a break with a lull, eased the sheets and got the boat under control. The reefs in the main had, of course, snapped, and all we could do was to hoist the main to save it from disintegration. Heroically, the deck crew saved the sails and continued toward the relative shelter of the Gotland coast. Then the drama started. During the chaos, a crew member had screamed out, clearly in pain. He was in the pulpit as the run away traveller caught his lower leg multiple times. He now sat relatively passively in place clipped in. I was doing the rounds to check everyone below and above deck. He gave me a thumbs up. But it was a slow thumbs up. He was an experience sailor, solid character and had contributed much to our success. So, I wasn't going to let this be. Where does it hurt? Lower leg. I move his leg, his face stiffened and my hand was red on his black all weather gear. He started to fade. We grabbed him and he manage with help to get below. I worked his boot and gear off to reveal a huge chunk out of his calf muscle. A real gusher. The poor guy did his best to stay with us. We loaded him up with pain killers and then he uttered the words.. I have a heart condition, I am on blood thinners.. OMG, there was no stopping the bleed. I strapped his good leg up to the coach roof and cleaned the wound with saline (don't use alcohol! on deep wounds). Luckily no bone breaks but an ominous double puncture wound into his Tibia. We called in a medical emergency, but the helicopter was full of rescues following a number of snapped rudders in our vicinity. It had to get back and refuel and then come out to us. We turned for the closest coast guard station which was a down wind run with an improving sea state. Connectivity in the Baltic is what you might expect from Swedish waters, with an open line to the paramedics and the coast guard, we determined that we were the fastest option to get him to care he needed. The crew kept him talking and the coast guard escorted us in to their berth where there was an ambulance and a helicopter on station. He was quickly whisked away to hospital, stabilised and patched up. He is recovering with 45 stitches. Afterwards, we all agreed that there are better ways to loose weight.
I’ve been in some very wild seas and we would never try and run with the swells when we were in danger of pitchpoling. Standing operating procedure was to set out a stern drogue, go down below and man the vents so that during lulls they were opened to allow air through. On one occasion we spent 7 hours this way and able to tell the tale.
Nowadays, stern drogues/series drogues are pretty much accepted wisdom. Much less so in the 70s. One could almost credit Don Jordan with, in addition to saving lives, also "saving" small boats. As the main "lesson" from the similarly infamous, subsequent, Sydney Hobart disaster; otherwise seems to have been to "go 40'+, or not at all." Yet ask anyone who has practiced retrieving a properly sized JSD from a 30 footer, vs from a now-common-among-aging-couples 50 footer; which job seems most "human scale........"
Thanks. I taught scuba for a long time and I have another channel about how to scuba. I started putting these videos up there about diving but they didn't really take. When I put them up here in their own channel they started doing well. I'm also a sailor so I want to make maritime stories but diving was certainly where I started. This was a bit nerve racking for me to release because it's a departure from what I've done and I'm not sure how it will be received. Thanks for your support. I appreciate it.
Fantastic video and incredibly clear explanation of basic sailing technicalities that those of us who grew up on the water take for granted. This race certainly had a global impact on not just the professional yacht racing scene but also cruiser racer and off shore cruising design.
I talked to a Dutch navy officer that was involved in the rescue operation of the Fastnet race. His ship was requested to be around "just in case". Well, it turned out to be the worst experience of his naval career. But, they managed ot rescue a number of people together with the UK navy. It was horrible, he said.
Unfortunately the video illustrates a complete misunderstanding of both yacht design and rating rules, footage from races that happened decades later, and a host of completely false statements.
In the disastrous Sydney to Hobart race the vintage wooden boat called the Winston Churchill, which weighed 17 tons if i remember correctly, was picked up by a huge wave and literally thrown like a spear into the back of the wave in front, smashing the boat to pieces. That shows you how bad it can get
Not quite smashed to pieces, but still incredibly bad. From the Coroners Report... At approximately 4.30pm on the afternoon of Sunday the 27th two crew members were on deck, Richard Winning, who was steering and John Dean. What occurred next is best described by Richard Winning: "About 4.30 I should've, I should say was around the time we got hit by this wave. I, I, I'm not, not, never been good at judging the height of waves so I couldn't say what it was except to say it was a good deal higher than the top of the mast so, you know, it'd have to be 60 feet, I should think, not so much the size of the, the wave that concerned me as, as its steepness. It was a very steep wave and breaking at the top when we started to climb up it. We got about halfway up, my intention was to try and just get up as quick as I could and nip right over the top of it, but we just didn't have the pace for that and the shape of the wave didn't, wouldn't have allowed it anyway unless we were going a good deal faster than we were. It picked us up, threw us down on our side. At that stage I was steering, John Dean was on watch with me, sitting beside the helm. That wave picked the, picked the boat up and just threw her down on her side, broke on top of us, John and I were swept over." (Richard Winning, 29th December, 1998, p.9) "Winston Churchill" was not rolled by this wave but was knocked down so severely that serious damage was sustained by her. John Stanley described it as like "hitting a brick wall." (John Stanley, 29th December, 1998, p.11) "Winston Churchill's" three coach house windows on the port side were smashed. The port side bulwark had been damaged to the extent that approximately two metres (6 feet) had been carried away in the vicinity of the chainplates (Richard Winning, 29th December, 1998, p.3) (John Stanley, 25th December, 1998, p.12). But of greater concern was that "Winston Churchill" had been damaged below the waterline on the port side. There is no firm evidence on precisely where or what this damage was. However the survivors believe it was below the port side chainplates, the mast being stepped about one third of the vessel's length from the bow.
An interesting video. I am a 70 year old Australian sailor, I have sailed in 3 Sydney Hobart races including 1993 which was the worst before the 1998 race. I sailed as a helmsman/navigator. In the ninteen 80's I recall a family barbeque after a local Sydney club racing day. A friend of my father sailed in the 1979 Fastnet race on an Australian boat. His take away from the Fastnet disaster was that too many boats did not have "storm boards" for the hatch sufficient to cope with the breaking waves that were crashing onto the yachts. He also said too many crews jumped into life rafts (only to perish) while the yachts they abandoned survived the storm. Just a comment, food for thought. ps. In 1993 Hobart race I was aware of a case where the crew launched a liferaft against the skipper's orders ( he had no option but to get in with them) and they watched the yacht happily sail over the horizon, never to be seen again! In the 1993 Hobart I retired (my) boat after discussing our options with the owner and 17 hours later, we limped into a refuge port at 3am with no electrics and no motor. Many of the crew were annoyed that we retired. But I was the one listening to the weather reports and I was the one assessing how competent this crew was to handle a REAL storm. I was the one to assess how they would react in a REAL emergency! Choose carefully, who you go to sea with!
Thanks for your comments. I think it's incredibly hard to make a decision to retire. You have to balance the disappointment of the crew who's lives you are trying to protect against their inability to realise they're in over their heads.
I believe another problem was the types of radios the boats were required to have. I can't remember whether it was HF, VHF, UHF, SSB or what but the Fastnet boats were lacking the best resource they needed for communication. This may have been a factor in why _Grimalkin_ missed that French weather report that forecast the storm. That said, just knowing what was coming would not have suddenly plucked anyone out of the Irish Sea or the Western Approaches but it might have led to some better decision making.
😮I sailed in this race with my step father (Peter Goodwright) John Lilly (boat owner) and Bill Monroe. Rounded the Fastnet set the spinnaker and crack shredded. Looked at the following seas and hoped for the best. Came 1st in class.
Unfortunately they do not concur with David Shearan's son Mathews account of this tragic accident. I do however believe THIS explanation to his own son's even if he was maybe shadowed by his emotions at the time. There is too much difference in the explanation here that makes sense to actually believe that of Mathew Shearan^s anymore. Such a pity for Mathew and well done that sailor who published his book to tell THE TRUTH.
Very fascinating story .... I am glad it was recommended. I have learned so much about not only the Fastnet '79 event, but about racing vessels and sailing. Thank you. I have been following Mozzy Sails and the America's Cup, and the racing in this story is very impressive and a whole different level. Much respect.
I prefer the offshore racing. Its just a personal preference. I also prefer cruising to racing so offshore just suits me better. Have you read the Story of Robin Knox Johnson? He was the first man to sail solo non stop around the world. Its a great read about Offshore Sailing. amzn.to/3G4l9Vi
Wow what beautiful corals and views too.From the light house or other ways well worth the trip. Coral was well liked too. So sweet. Really enjoyed the video with so much diverse. Can wait for next week video. Good job guys 😘⛵️🏖🌴😍❤️
At 1:34 it is a very nice shot of "Brindabella" in the 1998 Sydney Hobart race before the conditions worsened. There are later shots of Brindabella in huge waves under stormsail only!
As a non-sailor it sometimes is hard to understand what movement the boat does or is able to do. But for me you did a great job to visualize and explain that. So thanks for the insight and all the other videos you did before :)
For anyone interested more thoroughly and more technically why and how IOR missed the major factor in boatbuilding for bluewater/coastal sailing I recommend the book "Seaworthyness - the Forgotten Factor" by C.A. Marchaj from 1986, where he researches and works through the engineering side of seaworthiness as far and deep as it is possible, at all. There's a paperback reprint version available, the original hardcovers only in maritime antique bookshops as far as I would know.
@@waterlinestories My pleasure. Marchaj, a Polish-born British yachtsman, was directly inspired and driven to research this topic after the 1979 Fastnet debacle. I personally came across Marchaj and his very thorough scientific research of sailboat aerodynamics and comparing research of different approaches towards sail performance when I was looking into different, not-so-conservative sail shapes and rigg-forms for singlehanders. He definitely was one of the less parochial researchers the sailing world had until his death, while not the best known or most often cited one - hence the recommendation. Not many seem to know or remember him and his massive scientific work.
Having read parts of this book, it reinforces what's long been obvious to experienced of sailors. Older, full keel, designs, like those conforming to the CCA rule will generally "take care of themselves" in extreme weather far better than boats designed to exploit the later IOR formula. CCA type designs may not perform as well on the wind but are far more stable in extreme conditions and will almost recover from a knockdown, or worse if they retain their watertight integrity.
Nice brief summary. For thos that want to read up on this, the best treatment of the topic of Fastnet and Hobart disasters and the aspects of yacht design that contribute to a seaworthy yacht is IMO Aldler Cole's Heavy Weather Sailing. Another commentor mentioned Hal Roth. I have a few of his books and remember there being coverage of seaworthy yacht design in one but don't remember Fastnet 79 being covered in any detail. I've not read Fastnet Force Ten. Your focus seemed to be on telling the story of one boat in the race but giving the context. Thanks for the video.
Great book, but John is better at writing history books. Sailors, like their fishermen forefathers, have a tendency to overstate conditions they had to face. It doesn't mean it isn't true, just that you need to scale every report by logarithmically. The ' 79 Fastnet wasn't sailor's (or fishermen's tale) it was a brutal race. We shouldn't have the luxury of second guessing their decisions. Hard choices have to be made is hard circumstance.
Excellent analysis of the 79 Fastnet race and how certain yachts were affected by extremely rare conditions. Fortunately I missed out on this race. A fellow racing crew member while we were out in a gale in the Bay of Biscay told me the following in 81 about his experience during the 79 race : I was on the helm focusing on maintaining our heading as we dropped down the back of the waves at really high speed, then coming back up to the next crest. At one point we reached the next wave crest at 12 o'clock to us, for some reason I turned around to our 8 o'clock and was now looking up at a vertical wall of water about the height of a two story house. I don't remember it hitting us but recall being lifted off the deck by the water and being immersed into it for a moment, when I came up, the boat had disappeared, the remaining part of the mast then poked out slowly from the water and the boat began to right itself, rising up more quickly. Until I felt the deck make contact with my feet as the boat came back up out of the water. I now found myself just ahead of the mast as she rose out of the water. For some reason the moment I felt the deck touch my feet, I felt certain things would be okay.
Remembering that Sydney to Hobart race where Navy Helicopter pilots winched boat crews to safety with 60 foot seas kissing the bottom belly of the helicopter. Hero's in anybody's language.
Mate, I know one of the rescue swimmer guys. I said how the hell did you survive being dropped in 60foot swell. He said the only thing that kept him alive was the winch line. It stopped him going under and never returning. Said the walls of water were so big you couldn't take it all in and it was pitch black under it.
@@williamcain7773 There is very good book on the race n rescue well worth the read chopper stalls on landing running on fumes Two young ladies got winched down in cat 1 cyclone condition s champion s every one of them
I know people who were in the 1998 Hobart and I knew people who were involved in the rescue. I knew a police air wing pilot who talked about how he had a swimmer on the end of a 30 metre wire. as he was trying to lower the swimmer into the water, he looked up just in time to see the crest of a wave heading straight for the helicopter. He hauled on the collective and started reeling in the swimmer as fast as he could. The police air wing Dauphin helcopters were a bit marginal for excess power as it was. The helicopter cleared the top of the wave but the swimmer was dragged through the crest. Everyone survived but they were lucky.
Currents, wind, directions, intensity: never the same. Always a different experience. You get yourself 500 miles offshore in a 20 knot boat; you're at the mercy of God.
I remember that race. I was sailing in an open boat when I saw the wind piping up on the Sunday. Admittedly, it was two days before the disaster. But believe me, that wind was strong! I managed to steer inshore and anchored on the mudflats. I walked ashore. The anchor had dug so deep that I needed a spade to dig it out. Morningcloud was suddenly in the news.
My father told me about this a long time ago (that's the year I was born), my father is a sailor, and that love passed on to me, and this story has always remained in my memory, and when I sail, I always look at the weather report, even though I sail in the Mediterranean, which is relatively quiet
The Jordan Series Drogue was developed as a result of the Fastnet and Sydney to Hobart yachting disasters. The drogue is well worth checking out if anyone’s not familiar with it.
A fine video and good analysis. We did this race in a 34ft boat. Trailing a very long bight of sheets (sail control ropes) slowed the boat sufficiently to stop her running too fast down the waves. We did this after 2 x 180 degree inversions. Neither was a speed-induced pitch pole, both were chaotic breaking seas, very steep, and certainly higher that Cosmic Dancer's mast, so 40ft. We were lucky, and Grimalkin was not.
Good morning, my name is Michele Lari and my Grandpa Alessandro Lari was on Yena designed by Patterson and owned by Sergio Doni, one of the three italian vessels. Yena was one of the most competitive boat in italy and it has a great reputation in the sailing community, especially here in forte dei marmi our home. As one of the vessels in the fastnet race in 1979, i do know their point of view. I’ll tell you the story…. My grandpa, as u said, was down in the kitchen during the no wind situation when suddenly, this is what he said to my father, “the plate with the fresh pasta inside flew away”. That was the begging of the hell. When he went up to check the situation there were massive waves and the boat was completely out of control. He took off the main sali cutting the main halyard, then he went to the back to help a man which was out board helped by a safe rope. At that point he said to the main of the crew to go below deck to keep them safe and he kept the control of the helm for 15 hours straight. I red on a paper that the official skipper was Dick Deaver but that night he was incable of steer the boat. My grandpa saved their life and most of the time he was at the helm, he was the greatest friend of Sergio Doni the owner and he told him to bring them home safe, and that’s what he did. My grandpa won a lot of other title, he won the Italian championship, Europe and even an admirals cup. Unfortunately he died 12 years ago but i keep him in my heart. Right now i’m a sailor on class 420 and i’m 20 years old, i’m sailing since i was 8. You will find every information on “Giornale Della Vela” and other italian web site. I hope you enjoyed reading this little piece of sailing history. I wish the best to everyone, Kind Regards, Michele.
Fortunately my boat is a 1977 built UFO 34 cruiser/racer, one of the stiffest boats of its era. A sister ship, fully kitted out as a production vessel, came second overall and left all the stripped out competitors in her classtrailing in her wake in the 1977 Fastnet .
Shipping forecast was every 6 hours. Most of the boats though dismasted did not sink and were found abandoned. The mistake was to abandon the boat . I fully remember the tragedy as the boat I was on would have been in the race, but we lost our mast in a storm of cowes the day before the race. The Fastnet enquiry made many recommendations
Was that the "Politician" that went on to win the Hobart overall? I met the young skipper Murray and his hands were covered in salt water sore scars! He also crewed in the 1982 America's cup!
Excellent presentation. You've obviously had a look at the '98 Hobart as well. Sailing a Mirror on a shallow lake is dangerous. Take care and do the best you can.
My sister and husband were in that storm but not competing. They had an engine failure and almost didn't make it back to port. They had a small 22 ft. Silhouette and had the engine fail at the worst possible time. They made it back to Newport, just.
As a sailor myself, you must adhere to the limitations of the boat, your self as a sailor, the safety of the crew and boat and the conditions. Many boaties do not understand their boats and get into trouble.
EXCELLENT VIDEO 1) 30ft. was suicidal 2) A short keel wide boat is only stable in predictable seas because you need A LOT of crew perched on the weather rail to keep it stable in place of the short keel. 3) The 1st pitch pole in those seas was the sign to the life boat ready. It doesn’t matter if the boat is still afloat if it drowned you like a rolling alligator. The mast and keel were in a race to see which snapped first. 4) I couldn’t find the make and model of this boat quickly. I damn sure hope it was not an “ultralight displacement boat.“ Even worse.
You should cover the Chris lemons story. I've watched all your videos in a few hrs and I need more. You explain things that make it so easy to understand
I remember this well as I was camping with my father in St Ives. At some point over the night we went and took shelter in a nearby house. Scary enough on land, it must’ve been utterly terrifying at sea.
A sad reminder of the Fastnet Race and those who lost their lives. I was mid atlantic at the time on a merchant vessel from Baltimore to Chiba via Cape Good Hope and well remember the Atlantic swell and storm force wind.
The story of Grimalkin is one that most sailors have heard or read about and still stands as a lesson in the kind of horrendous conditions that can happen, a perfect storm as it were and I offer my sincere condolences to the survivors and families of the sailors who died . At the same time as the Fastnet was going on, There was a J-30 sailed being single-handed from the US East coast to England that happened to close in on land (fastnet rock? Or Plymouth? I Don't know) that was also caught in the storm. I recall reading about this boat in Yachting? Magazine and the sailor reported the 30-ft J boat suffered a complete 180 degree roll twice and survived the storm without damage to himself or the boat as I recall. I believe the sailor was testing the newly designed J-30 as a capable single-handed offshore boat. Does anyone recall the name of this J-30 and the sailor who sailed it. I would like to read again the account of his trip and storm tactics, and how well the boat held up. I recall he didn't sail poles only but had a shortened jib used as a stormsail. Another sad sailng story that didn't get the world coverage like the Fastnet was a JAPAN NORC yacht race from TOKYO to Guam in the late '80s/early '90s that also resulted in the loss of 21 plus lives as the group of 14 boats were caught in a winter storm roaring out of China shortly after they departed Sagami Bay, Japan. The loss of keels in the heavy seas was the main cause of boats capsizing and crew unable to launch liferafts. An 8? Person crew that that did manage to launch a liferaft ended up lost at sea for more than a month before being found by a commercial freighter, only one crew member survived, the other 7 died due to exposure and thirst. I can't recall the exact dates of this disaster. ###
There were some problems that meant that not all rescue resources were mustered during the 1979 Fastnet Race disaster. This subsequently led to all British SAR aircraft of the time (which were all military) being brought under the same tasking authority from 1979 onwards. Some thirty years later, in 2009, a poorly co-ordinated rescue meant that the lesson had to be learnt again and British civilian SAR aircraft were brought under that same tasking authority from 1st April 2010. These events are a part of the reason that we have ended up with a successful unified system for air rescue at the UK JRCC.
Several of the breakdowns during that race occurred when rudder posts failed. At that time, carbon fiber was a new boat building material and designers used it to build lighter rudder posts. However, they did not trust carbon fiber to do the whole job. So they built a thin aluminum post and wrapped it in carbon fiber. The idea was that the two materials would work together to create a light but strong post. Unfortunately, the materials did not work together as they have different flex characteristics. As it turns out, all of one material took the load until it failed and then the other took the load until it failed. Neither material was designed to carry 100% of the load.
Many modern cruising Yachts have a Hollow tube made from poor materials as the rudder stock, they corrode from the inside & break ~ the snazzy colour adverts dont mention That. My 10m Freedom has a 3inch solid steel stock, with rods & bell Cranks, built like a Tank. 😀😄
Nick Ward, the surviving crew-member of the Grimalkin who wrote his account of the race and the storm called ‘Left For Dead’ many years after, is my Uncle. I was 8 years old when he was missing and presumed dead by his family during that long night when he and Jerry lay unconscious and abandoned by the rest of the crew, and the memory is vivid. He was in fact rescued in the end not from the dismasted hull of the yacht but from the sea, where he had been holding the body of Jerry with him for a long time before being winched finally to safety by a very brave and skilled helicopter crew. After he had left hospital and recovered physically from the ordeal, word came to the owner that a Spanish trawler had found the Grimalkin adrift and towed it into a Spanish port - Nick volunteered to fly over where rigged her and sailed her home alone. He never showed any bitterness towards the men who left him behind, with little hope of rescue, no means of communication or escape, to suffer for many hours on the violently pitching, tumbling hulk and then in the cold heaving sea, with a dying man for company, and nor did he blame them or express self-pity, but readers of his his gripping and nightmarish account might come to their own conclusions about the behaviour of those that escaped on the life raft. Nick is a modest and well-liked family man in retirement, still living near the Solent, well-known among sailors for his adventure and still enjoying the life he so nearly lost.
Thanks for sharing that. I really enjoyed his book. Ive read comments about what people speculate the relationship is, between Matthew and Nick. For the most part I know that accidents dont happen on purpose and they always stoke emotions. Its great to hear from someone who has first hand knowledge. If ever you find the opportunity, please say thanks for writing the book. A friend of mine sailed the Fastnet in 2015 and he read it then, then gave it to me to read. I think its a must read for anyone going to sea. It was also courageous to share such a raw experience with the world.
Thanks for your reply - I will share your film with Nick, it’s a great piece of work and I’m sure he will enjoy your channel too and the other fine films you have made.
Very good explanation. The postscript to this is that Grimalkin didn’t sink but was recovered 4 days later by Fishermen. I raced on her in 1988. (we took lead shot out of the bilges) She then was refurbished and raced out of Weymouth about 10 years ago and is now in Europe. Certainly, the lack of form stability and high up ballast (to optimise the CSF) didn’t help.
@@waterlinestories New Subber here. Have heard this Fastnet disaster story a few times. Yours was a compelling take, TY! Also never heard of the book, so off I go and looking forward to it! 👍😁
Thank you for the very well done video. Many of the brand new boats carry a lot of the same similar characteristics as the fastnet 79 boats.Wide beams for two cabins and shallow drafts so they can get closer into Shore while they Cruise. A lot of the new designs should not be taken out into the ocean as they are not suitable and should be used for their intended purposes on protected Waters and Inland Lakes. Although many of these new boats have been cruised successfully there is a greater risk taking them into oceans with changing weather patterns. When I built my 39 ft steel hull I had read John Rousmaniere's desirable and undesirable characteristics of offshore yachts which was an excellent read. For any sailor or couple that intends to go Blue Water sailing please do your research before purchasing a sailboat. This research may save you and your family from making a bad mistake. And as they say research is free and worth the time.
Very good analysis. One very obvious lesson that sadly wasn't learnt from the fastnet was the importance of ensuring that weather warning updates from all sources was made available swiftly. Today technology has changed. But then it was all about not giving yachts a potential tactical advantage. It is essential IMO that organisers be prepared to cancel an event at any stage. There is a duty of care. More frequent extreme weather is I think a real risk.
The French predictions were better than the UK. But another issue was that the UK Extreme weather updates were behind the curve so to speak. They were issuing updates, but conditions were already at, or beyond the predicted state. So yachts that were following the updates were lulled into thinking that they were already through the worst. Of course the exhausted and stressed human brain latched onto that with relief, rather than evaluating the ongoing trend of the reports being incorrect and adjusting course accordingly. Not that there was much relief in changing course given the sea state at the time.
Hi. This is good safety information. I did notice you mentioned that when you reef the sail it is tied around the boom and the picture also shows that description. I always tie the reef lines around the foot of the sail not all the way around the boom as in high winds it is likely to tear the sail. This is to tidy up the bag in the foot. The reef should be tight between the Clew and the Tack.
Interesting. All the boats, skippers and instructors Ive sailed on/with have tied in around the boom. I can see the logic. Just not had the experience of sailing with a skipper who does not tie in around the boom.
@@waterlinestories Mark Greig is right, though you can only do that with loose-footed mains. In 1979 it was common for mains to run in a groove along the boom - some idea of aerodynamic efficiency. The Fastnet disaster was exacerbated by crews abandoning boats that stayed afloat throughout the storm.
I think what you're saying is the pressure of the sail is borne at the ram's horn at the luff and the clew at the leech. The tie downs in the middle of the sail are not supposed to bear much force at all, but are mainly to secure the loose sail to the boom.
I have just sold my 62 foot classic yacht and bought a 35 foot x 1 tonner aluminium camper Nicholson 1974 . Beautifully built and small . I’m hoping it sails well and safe . It has sailed around the world a few times though
@@waterlinestories I tell you the 62 foot classic Italian yacht nearly killed me financially . Was sad to sell but I required crew and only me and the dog living on it . This camper Nicholson has no shower no hot water no nothing to speak of . Basic is the best but good rig and hardware is of course paramount. At least I can sail around on my own . Thankyou and look forward to watching your channel. Hopefully some good stories
@@andreflavell3453 A friend of mine and I bought a 24ft Achilles for next to nothing. It was a piece of shite but at least it didnt cost us much to maintain. Although we spent every weekend maintaining it... Having something you can sail and isnt a noose around your neck is the best boat you can have. Although we all dream about a beautiful wooden ship with perfect lines and woman sunbathing on the foredeck.
@@waterlinestories that’s the trap I fell into . Lost a lot of $ but gained freedom. It was steel beautifully built and rolled but ply decks with teak and miles of it . The leaks became overwhelming. At least I gave it a new life . Very happy to have a very basic boat as only me and the dog . It’s tumble home and no wood anywhere. Nice stern and flush deck as I was used to . Only 2 hatches . I appreciate your response
Racing hulls are often planing nowadays, leaving the displacement in the past. Broader aft, heavier keel, different rigg. And we have much better weather forecast and navigation. A race would probably be called off or never start if too tough weather is ahead.
I was 11 years old and on a camping holiday in Brixham, south Devon. As a result, there was no tv, just the occasional news on the car radio and, of course, the Shipping Forecast on BBC Radio 4 long wave. Maybe a newspaper now and again. I was vaguely aware that the disaster happened but no real details, so getting more of the story 44 years later was interesting. To be honest, the reason Fastnet stuck in my head is the happening on the campsite. We'd been out for the day, mainly to see the Bond film Moonraker in Torquay to be out of the wind and rain. We got back to the campsite to find that the family in the tent (a large 3 bedroom affair) next to ours was no longer there. It turned out they came back to find their tent missing. The wind had ripped it out of the ground, lifted it over two hedges and the lane before depositing the wreckage in a field 50-75 metres away. It was the only tent in the whole campsite to suffer any damage on what was an incredibly wet and windy day. It's not something I'm ever going to forget. 😮😮❤😮😮
I really love what you're doing here, but the technical explanation was lacking. Not your fault and I think Ron Holland who designed the boat and Camper and Nicholson are inappropriately maligned for what happened. Grimalkin became the focus because people died, but that specific boat is pretty safe by MOST of the numbers. It's worth starting out with 3 things 1.) She didn't sink, 2.) She righted herself without drowning anyone, and 3.) She was being sailed in extreme wind conditions (Force 10) which were aggravated by the local sea bottom, which caused towering breakers coming from just about every direction. But to review your technical explanation It's not carrying the beam aft that makes IOR boats unstable down wind. LWL is measured in a straight line from the submerged portion of the stem to the stern. Making her beamier has no effect on LWL, though it does increase form stability which pays fewer dividends as the boat heels. Digging into that Here's the stability curve for Grimalkin (A Nicholson 30 1/2 Tonner)vs a Contessa 32 www.schoonerman.com/ship-design/images/1511_10_47-grimalkin-yacht.jpg You'll notice up to about 25 degrees they generate the same righting moment! Grimalkin falls off she gets so much of her righting moment from her hull shape through form stability - illustrated here www.modernwoodenboat.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/figure-3.jpg As Grimalkin continues to heel and there is no more hull to submerge she doesn't have the ballast to generate much righting moment like the Contessa 32 does in the graph. Grimalkin's draft is 5'9" which is pretty deep for a 30 footer, not shallow as you said in the video. Her balast-to-displacement ratio is .51 which is pretty good! sailboatdata.com/sailboat/nicholson-12-ton The Contessa 32 in our GZ curve is .47, which is technically lower even though her GZ curve is better sailboatdata.com/sailboat/contessa-32 It was Grimalkin's beam and hull shape that generated TOO MUCH form stability, including when upside down, and pinched stern that seem to be the real short comings of her lines. I think the most valuable lessons of the race are administrative and procedural. Reforms around things like crew preparedness, NOT abandoning ship, making sure you're clipped in, and a willingness to call it off due to bad weather have certainly saved lives since then. Some constructive criticism - great content, I love your videos!
Thanks, I'll take some time to digest that. I appreciate the feedback. I wish I had technical consultants to really dig in before publishing. Over time I think Ill end up learning more than I impart. I certainly hope so.
@@waterlinestories For sure dude, keep up the great work! Im only an armchair diver - I got my OW cert and never used it lol. But I am a lifelong sailor, aspiring liveaboard, and briefly worked on the design side in the marine industry. Feel free to reach out if you have questions!
I read the story of Dave Shaw just this morning - I'll watch your video on it!
Isn't that leaving out other design and build factors. Keel design can impact directional stability. Hull/keel design affecting roll damping. Other integrity issues creating water entry points such as companionways/washboards, cockpit lockers, ventilators, hatches/skylights, the mast coat/surround, leaks under deck fittings. A small number of yachts experience damage to the hull/deck join. Steering gear damage, failure of reserve steering systems. Not mentioning the failure of masts. When 33% of the yachts experience knockdowns substantially beyond horizontal you have to look at design/build issues even if they are not related to ballast/ratio or length/displacement ratio.
@@colbr6733 I totally agree, your concerns about build quality and closing the boat up tight were and are crucial to survival. My discussion of form stability IS that stability which is generated by hull shape. I brought up those general ratios because that's what was mentioned in the video and that's what was 'reformed' after the disaster. It's also what most people look at first, but I agree it give an incomplete picture. As I said, by the numbers, Grimalkin was a very safe design. General seamanship and storm preparedness are what keep you safe.
That's an interesting film, thank-you! The title is a little misleading as it only applies to Grimalkin; the ensuing disaster for many of the other yachts was a little different. Accepting all the elements of freak atmospheric conditions, confused and appalling sea state, localised hurricane force winds and all the other factors that found weaknesses in IOR boats there was one over-riding factor that caused more problems than it solved..... The fact that people abandoned their boats and took to liferafts. I know it's easy to say that from the comfort of home, but it is true. Only ever climb-up in to a liferaft, never step down. Hindsight is a cruel thing, but if many of the crews had stayed with their boats then the loss of life and injury would surely have been lower. RIP to them all though.
This bit at 3:34 makes no sense--waterline length is *not* increased by a wider beam. Otherwise, all our racing boats would be incredibly wide...which they obviously aren't. I was nodding along with your excellent explanation up to that point, but a wider beam is added for a larger righting moment, to increase sail-carrying ability. It has no effect on water line length.
Thanks for pointing that out. A few people have called me on that. I had researched and I was confident my understanding was correct but it seems Im wrong. I am putting in place some checks and balances to make sure my info is accurate and sense checked before I publish. I really dont want to be putting out incorrect info. Thanks for speaking up.
@@waterlinestories You're not wrong. As a vessel heels the water flow along the hull increases giving it a longer waterline, draw diagonals on a half body plan and measure each one, you'll soon see even by eye, those of us who went to college and studied the subject and have a shelf full of design books know this! But this is the whole problem with amateur weekend racing sailors and a contributing factor to the Fastnet disaster, lack of knowledge! Yes racing boats or cruising boats that have design features akin to racing, fin keels and skeg rudders a prime example, are simply not seamanlike and the skippers not good seamen. As I've said elsewhere I knew two cruising vessels in the thick of that gale, the smallest being a 27ft Helford Cutter, and they just rode it out drinking tea below whilst mayhem raged all around them due to bad seamanship and bad design. Take the yacht featured here, Gremilkin, first major eyesore to being a good seaboat is that retrousse stern! The deeper it gets the less bouyant it becomes! Bad, very very bad. I could go on pulling racing boat designs apart but I don't need to, the end result of the race speaks for me, bad design and bad seamanship, a fatal combination.
Very well explained. The only thing I can add is that sailing yachts, in the majority, are built so lightly. I couldnt believe when many years ago (for the first time) i lent against the railing of a sailing yacht and almost went over the side. Coming from years on displacement heavy built vessels i was aghast at just how flimsy they are built and to this day still are. There are exceptions of course but anywhere say up to about 50 foot the lightness of build/fixtures/fittings etc in fibreglass sailing yachts is scary to me.
0:40 What's the story of this picture? Looks like they are one hand short. Or would that be half a hand? I know that individual crew members are "hands" but is one crew member 1 hand or 2?
I’ve read all the books , but never seen it explained like this video , an eye opener, and a tragic accident, they are well known designers so was it the rules that caused them to overlook the seaworthiness of their design in bad weather
At first glance it seems size matters however the largest yacht doing a kayak eskimo roll was the 46ft Admiral's cupper "Jan Pott" (all survived). On the 40' "Tai Fat" we did a pitch-pole slamming the top of the mast into the water ahead and damaging our VHF antenna. It still worked when we relayed a mayday on behalf of "Grimalkin" later that day. I took several pictures of the helicopter rescuing Nick and hoisting the deceased Gary. Thanks to vastly improved communications and forecasts this will not happen again to a fleet of racing boats.
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A very interesting reminder of a race that changed yachting. I was sailing in the British Team on a 50 footer called Blizzard with a highly experienced crew of 14. I started my career in the ‘60’s in Australia and my first Hobart was on a 27 footer called Zilvergeest. So I count 7 Hobarts and about the same number of Fastnets. We rounded the Rock at about 0300 and started to hear the radio distress calls. Our wind indicator was pinned on 70 knots so we made the decision to stop racing and get home without becoming a burden to the rescue services by pushing our luck. I know Matt Sheahan and knew a few others who lost their lives that day. It was all very distressing.
The IOR Rule came out in 1969 and it’s fair to say that it stalled yacht design for fifteen years. Its introduction coincided with mass produced glass fibre boats and marinas both of which attracted new people into the sport. New and inexperienced sailors. Before that it is fair to say that we raced because we loved sailing and it was a relatively unknown activity to the public. Wet and unfashionable. At this time I worked in Nicholsons and was the resident IOR consultant tweaking handicaps.
The rule was supposed to mathematically handicap any existing yacht up to about 70 feet. As soon as it was introduced designers started to design new boats which concentrated, not on speed, but on lowering the handicap. The beam was the first measurement and was put in because it REDUCES speed and gains a lower handicap. The rule also penalised stability and broad transoms while giving credit for a deep forefoot. These features coupled with high aspect ratio rigs and unbalanced sail areas under spinnaker produced yachts that were dangerous in inexperienced hands when pushed to racing limits.
The ’79 Fastnet had been preceded by two easy, light wind races 77 and 75 which meant that the new sailors considered it a fashionable event for chaps and chapesses to have on the social calendar. This is why many were caught out in ill equipped yachts and no experience of the conditions - which I have to say were pretty awe inspiring.
After IOR we reinvented stability and better hull and rig design.
I am a yacht designer and one of my Europa 30 footers was cruising the Bristol Channel in the ‘79 gale crewed by an architect and his wife and two kids of 11 and 13 en route to Devon from Cardiff. They made it through a terrible night and anchored in Lundy Island. The place was deserted - but they found the entire 30 population in the tiny church praying for the yacht they had seen founder during the night. In fact the Matthais family stood at the back of their own memorial service.
Wow, Imagine walking in and the church are praying for you. Needless to say god was recognised by the church that night.
Any chance I could call on your expertise in yacht design for future videos. Others have pointed out I didnt get it quite right and Id appreciate a glance over some stories in the future so I dont walk headlong into another blunder.
If youre up for it, please drop me an email on paulpnel@gmail.com
Cool Thanks for that insight to this tragic event.
Wonder how a ' top hat ' would have gone, hove to and wait, that's all this novice ex sailor could think of.
As a new sailor and first time boat builder (45ft), thanks to all the salty sailor chiming in here with tales! A sobering reminder to build well, prepare well.
Great comment, thank you for your insight. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that the PHRF handicap system which was based on boat performance and measurements was introduced in the early 70s and it eventually replaced the IOR for handicapping boats, because it was a logical, fair system.
As a skipper of many years I have one major issue with this boat. A sail boat that cannot right itself on a nock down is not a sea worthy boat and should not even be on the water let alone out there.
Unfortunately, there are many shoal draft designs (like mine) that have a bad factor that people take in open water and the "perfect storm" hits them.
Sorry ship designer extrodanire
Go show them how it’s done boomer
this seems like good advice - probably better than the kid yelling "boomer" with the screen name "Your Mom is a Ho" serving cold hotdogs at the gas station
100%
An extremely clear and concise commentary, one of the best I have ever seen. The well-illustrated and straight-forward points made about wave formation and behaviour, and how racing rules influence boat design, are excellent learning points even for experienced sailors. I have had the privilege of talking and sailing with survivors of the '79 Fastnet and their experiences profoundly influenced my own attitudes towards safety preparations and sailing practices on my own boats.
Here, here.
Have you watched any of his other videos? If not, they're just as impressive.
Six months after this I launched on a SAR mission from Lajes Field in response to a Mayday from an American boat that had been in this race. I was the AC of a USN P-3B. The crew was attempting to sail back to the U.S. and their boat had been dismasted in an enormous storm. It was late at night, the ceiling was around 800 feet, and the winds were gusting in excess of 50 kts. We found the boat -in fact I had to ask the crew to stop firing flares at me. The sea state and winds were so high it was pointless to drop the SAR package, because it would have just rolled away with the wind. We found a freighter about 30 miles away but couldn’t get it to respond on VHF. So, I buzzed the bridge a couple of times and then dropped a line of smoke markers (which show up as flares at night) indicating where I wanted the ship to go. The master got the message and turned to follow the lights. Two hours later the freighter reached the sailboat, and the master did an amazing job coming alongside the boat to rescue the crew. I was talking to the sailboat skipper the entire time. He remained calm and collected, even as his boat was sinking. I remember him telling me he and the crew were from Massachusetts. Never did collect the case of beer he promised me. This boat survived Fastnet but the winter time North Atlantic did her in.
Geez. Imagine that. Survive what is thought of as a storm of the century and then sink Inn your way home.
Thanks for sharing
@@waterlinestories I remember the skipper of the sinking boat commenting on the irony of that.
Cool story! A job well done. :)
Hell, I’ll pitch in for some beer. Whatcha like? Lol
Wow, amazing story. I was an offshore sailor briefly, but a couple nights alone on the ocean in a storm was enough to turn me off forever. I always wanted to cross the pacific, but I don't think I'll ever do it now.
Hi Macrib What can I say. I am Chris Freer and I’ve worked in every aspect of yacht design, marketing, racing and construction all over the planet for more than 60 years (now 80) and in that time I have watched the industry grow from nothing to the mega rich environment it is today. So back to 1969 and the IOR. The time when Apollo 11 landed on the moon with less computing power than a basic ‘phone. And that is what you must consider. The GRP yacht business was just starting and I arrived in UK from Aus in 1970 to run the first and only marina in the Solent at Campers. Admirals Cup was sailed from the piles opposite Lallows in Cowes. We hand drew and lofted the lines of yachts and then hand built them, normally in wood. All calculation was by hand or slide rule because the pocket calculator arrived in about 1974. A big yacht at the time was about 55 with 70 footers like Ticonderga and Stormvogel regarded with awe. Yachting was male, uncomfortable and for those who loved sailing - ladies didn’t want to get in a dinghy after a drive down from town and ‘camp’ in a smelly damp yacht on a pile mooring - there was no public awareness of racing or any social status to owning a yacht. The Cowes ‘balls’ were for the rather scruffy competitors not the swanky ‘down from towners’ - ladies came over on the ferry and stayed in hotels.
Because the international scene was growing there was a desire to use one rule to handicap yacht racing fairly. In Aus we used RORC rule as did the Poms but the Yanks used CCA and the Frogs had no rules at all as far as we could tell. So a very worthy team of designers created the IOR. It was not written to be ‘designed’ to. It was meant to rate the yachts of its time by a series of measurements create a fair ‘rating’ for offshore racing. So the creators looked at what made boats slow or fast in the their day and generated a mathematical system running to 74 pages. I still have my copy. Things which made yachts go ‘fast’ were stability, narrow beam, powerful ends, long overhangs, oversize sails (150% J ring any bells). Things that made boats slow were heavy displacement, beam, short ends, low stability, inefficient fractional rigs and big engine installations. There was no idea to equate the wetted area of long keel boats to fin and skeg because the latter were very few and far between. You get the picture. We rarely designed boats specifically for rule in those days - customers wanted nice looking boats with good accommodation (Pacha) for cruising and seagoing strength in all departments. They raced their cruisers. Sail inventories were very limited and low tech and many still had wooden ,masts and galvanised rigging. But things were changing rapidly as the ‘civilised’ world got wealthier and started looking for new things to do with money. The key events were the advent of cheap mass produced GRP yachts, cheap marinas to keep them in and low interest rates coupled to tax relief on loans. Marinas with loos attracted more ladies and this led to the desire to socialize with the local natives in the yacht clubs - especially if they were ‘Royal’ and had a decent restaurant. The boom was on. Morgan jackets and yellow wellies. This is the answer to your question.
The entry point of the maths for the new rule was the beam measurement. Big beam initiated a low handicap because it affected the depths midships and forward as well as the aft and forward girth slopes. We also had the angular midships measurement which falsified displacement. (remember rating bumps) The forward depth stations were important so we had narrow waterlines fwd with deep sections. Bow down trim lowered rating so, downwind, the bow immersion could overpower the rudder and narrow stern sections and cause a broach. The big spinnakers and narrow mainsails on the masthead rigs set the centre of effort way off centreline and caused helming problems. All this with a rule which penalised stability. The high displacement length ratios coupled to the low lift bows meant that the boats did not surf easily or respond to gusts by surfing, they just rolled, another reason for loss of control. The IOR governors responded to any innovation with a ‘Banning Committee’ - bloopers, full battened mainsails, twin rudders, trim tabs, asymmetric dagger boards, carbon rigs, gennakers etc etc all got banned. The engine allowance EPF was a joke and meant that boats of this generation on the market now usually have lousy installations.
The punters rushed to the cruiser racer production boats and fleets increased, but those who wanted to win bought stripped out boats and re-added the weight with internal ballast which made the boats more stable and reduced pitching moments. They also hired heavy crew - rail meat - and hired rating consultants like me to optimise the rating process with a few tricks we knew. The ordinary punter didn’t have a chance. Then we went into an era of custom IOR race boats - about 1975 - and the fleets started to decline because production boats could not compete and the racing became the growing preserve of the rich owner with a semi pro crew. By about 1981 it was all over and fleets went into steady decline, although the Rule staggered on until IMS and CHS and the rest of the new rules took over with a little more success and common sense.
The IOR rule produced a ‘look’. The 51 degree bow profile, the pinched stern and the IOR keel. Boats won races not on speed but handicap - you came in a day late and ‘won’ - hence the statement that IOR put yacht design back. But the advertising of race wins led the punters to believe that fast boats won races. If we had tried to sell a plumb bow, fat transom, bulb keeled yacht with a genneker the punters would have laughed and run a mile because it did not have ‘the look’ or that all important ‘rating’. Remember the horror which greeted the first Renault Espace when it hit the UK market (those practical Frogs throwing away the rule book again) - today every wannabee school run mum wants the biggest people carrier.)
As designers and boat builders we could do nothing. Give the sheep what the journalists and yacht club ‘experts’ told them to buy and take the dosh - or go bankrupt as a pioneer. It has taken over 20 years for the public to get the message that they have freedom of choice. Why should a self elected committee and their rule dictate your enjoyment and investment. The trouble is that fashion and myth dominates a fundamentally amateur sport and owners and crews regurgitate bar room technology with little technical knowledge. The trend in newly designed ‘classics’ is a case in point. They are fashion anachronisms in denial of all the innovations (why build a heavy displacement ‘replica’ in carbon fibre !!!!) which make modern yachts more useful, enjoyable, habitable and much easier to sail. Why did people idolize Swans. Not competitive - horrible, uncomfortable exposed cockpits and cramped companionways and gloomy interiors like tombs. Sailing Range Rovers. Furling gears, better hull designs, broad transoms and big cockpits, twin wheels, fully battened mains, big engines, proper stability, cruising chutes, carbon rigs etc etc have transformed yachts and made them appropriate to the real needs of modern sailors - if they can take the time to listen.
Hi Chris, I have a yacht from that era: a Rival 32. Presumably it was designed to the rules of the time. It has a bow overhang, small transom and 120% genoa. The reason I went down this line was because it is very comfortable in high wind. I have been in F9 from Azores to UK and been quite relaxed. And it is easy to sail short-handed. It is also quite slow and uncomfortable upwind and has a very uncomfortable cockpit (big cushions required)!
So I am a bit confused; are the wide-transom, plumb bow, modern designs more comfortable/safer in big seas? Or just faster and more comfortable? (and beyond my budget 🙂).
Matt
@@matthughes6474 Hi Matt - interesting questions. Peter Brett, your designer came to lunch with me in 1978 because he wanted to retire but did not want the Rival name to be lost and he was looking for a designer to take over. It came to nothing because his daughter wanted to do the job but lost interest so the brand died. Rival I seem to remember because it was a plastic boat competing with the Nich 32. The Rival would have been measured to the old RORC Rule (before IOR) and was one of the first to have a fin and skeg making it reasonably competitive. Boats of that era were old style in terms of displacement length ratio and were relatively narrow with lower freeboards than today. Also they tended to be undercanvased and more heavily rigged. Solid, safe, dependable, wet upwind and not much good in the light stuff. I guess a modern yacht would be a bit more comfortable but the real answer is that modern nav aids allow us to passage plan for better weather and we see sailing as a pleasurable sunny experience around the Greek Islands more than the old ‘heroic manly battle’ against the forces of nature. Boats are now designed to be comfortable live aboards with the occasional foray to sea. They serve a different sort of sailor (and sailors wife). As to cockpit comfort - that's is a personal bug of mine. There is a book on anthropometrics which yacht designers have never opened. I have a drawing in the office which gives the correct dimensions for a comfortable cockpit for the ‘average’ person including elbow height, lumbar support as well as the correct angles for the seat and backrest etc etc. Go to a boat show - you will find most boats even the most expensive have board flat cockpit seats. My bum is curved and there is a correct seat dimension for it. When I go to dinner in a Portuguese restaurant I always take my cushion because they all have flat seats - torture.
Thanks for sharing. This is the best comment here.
Mr Freer, thank you for that "global" view and perspective on the era and "evolution" of sailing yachts and the industry which has occured in my lifetime. i have also spent my working life in the industry(at a much humbler level than you) and can recall a a teen and young adult questioning some of the reasons for certain designs and processes. You answer many of those here in a way I have not seen before. Cheers
I just wanted to post and thank you for such an insightful comment! I recently purchased an Evetts 31 (1980 IOR) and have been learning to sail (really enjoying the boat!). I’d wondered what the “why” was around its shape compared to the rest of the marina and your write up helped a great deal. Thanks!
By focussing on one boat the author was able to make a succinct video picking up the important points particularly about how designers were focussing on speed rather than seaworthiness. I was on a wooden long keeled cruising boat a bit further south in Biscay. We eventually took down all sail, trailed warps and endured a very difficult 24 hours.
One thing alluded to in the video was that in the Fastnet many boats were abandoned by their crews but survived the storm. Often it is the human reaction that a "life raft" will be better than the mother boat, even though it is a flimsy vulnerable inflatable and in reality offers less protection than the yacht which was abandoned.
Yes good point.
The first tuber who understands water line/resistance. When a subject’s understanding is intuitive, the delivery can be tailored to maximize comprehension.
Loved your video. Thx
Re: abandoning to a life raft
The rule I was bought up with is ‘never step down into a life raft from a boat, only get off the boat when you have to step up into the life raft!
Outstanding storyteller! Riveting explanations, that keep even us "Non sailors" glued to the screen. Although tragic, your recounting is excellent.
Thanks I appreciate that
Great video, thank you for the analysis. It often escapes modern era sailors what these rules are there for, until the shit hits the fan. As an offshore amateur I have done a number of races. The recent 2023 Gotland Runt (Round Gotland [Baltic Sea]), a top level international event, saw 85% of the fleet retire due to the conditions. I was helming in heavy sea state with cresting waves of 4 - 5 metres in a X-442 with far too much sail up for the 45 knot winds. I have done some dramatic things, Everest and seen the Fastnet up close, so I wasn't completely out of my comfort zone. But as nav I had fought and lost a battle over using the J2. It was exhausting to helm with so much power on. We were crushing it in the standings, but with 40% of the race done, we were already reduced from three watches to two as the crew was thinning out due to seasickness and exhaustion. I took to my sail bag bunk once my watch ended and was resting up, when all hell broke loose. We were headed on a crest and the boat spun in wild gibes and smack downs. I braced myself between the galley wall and a hand hold in the coach roof. The helm did their best as the boat completed a 720 pirouette. We caught a break with a lull, eased the sheets and got the boat under control. The reefs in the main had, of course, snapped, and all we could do was to hoist the main to save it from disintegration. Heroically, the deck crew saved the sails and continued toward the relative shelter of the Gotland coast. Then the drama started.
During the chaos, a crew member had screamed out, clearly in pain. He was in the pulpit as the run away traveller caught his lower leg multiple times. He now sat relatively passively in place clipped in. I was doing the rounds to check everyone below and above deck. He gave me a thumbs up. But it was a slow thumbs up. He was an experience sailor, solid character and had contributed much to our success. So, I wasn't going to let this be. Where does it hurt? Lower leg. I move his leg, his face stiffened and my hand was red on his black all weather gear. He started to fade. We grabbed him and he manage with help to get below. I worked his boot and gear off to reveal a huge chunk out of his calf muscle. A real gusher. The poor guy did his best to stay with us. We loaded him up with pain killers and then he uttered the words.. I have a heart condition, I am on blood thinners.. OMG, there was no stopping the bleed. I strapped his good leg up to the coach roof and cleaned the wound with saline (don't use alcohol! on deep wounds). Luckily no bone breaks but an ominous double puncture wound into his Tibia. We called in a medical emergency, but the helicopter was full of rescues following a number of snapped rudders in our vicinity. It had to get back and refuel and then come out to us. We turned for the closest coast guard station which was a down wind run with an improving sea state. Connectivity in the Baltic is what you might expect from Swedish waters, with an open line to the paramedics and the coast guard, we determined that we were the fastest option to get him to care he needed. The crew kept him talking and the coast guard escorted us in to their berth where there was an ambulance and a helicopter on station.
He was quickly whisked away to hospital, stabilised and patched up. He is recovering with 45 stitches. Afterwards, we all agreed that there are better ways to loose weight.
I’ve been in some very wild seas and we would never try and run with the swells when we were in danger of pitchpoling. Standing operating procedure was to set out a stern drogue, go down below and man the vents so that during lulls they were opened to allow air through. On one occasion we spent 7 hours this way and able to tell the tale.
Nowadays, stern drogues/series drogues are pretty much accepted wisdom. Much less so in the 70s.
One could almost credit Don Jordan with, in addition to saving lives, also "saving" small boats. As the main "lesson" from the similarly infamous, subsequent, Sydney Hobart disaster; otherwise seems to have been to "go 40'+, or not at all."
Yet ask anyone who has practiced retrieving a properly sized JSD from a 30 footer, vs from a now-common-among-aging-couples 50 footer; which job seems most "human scale........"
Cool to see you branching out into non diving related maritime incidents. I love it.
Thanks. I taught scuba for a long time and I have another channel about how to scuba. I started putting these videos up there about diving but they didn't really take. When I put them up here in their own channel they started doing well. I'm also a sailor so I want to make maritime stories but diving was certainly where I started. This was a bit nerve racking for me to release because it's a departure from what I've done and I'm not sure how it will be received.
Thanks for your support. I appreciate it.
@@waterlinestories It still feels in character for the channel. The only difference here is the subtopic. I'm loving all the content you have.
@Jason Ellison ruclips.net/user/waterlineacademy
Fantastic video and incredibly clear explanation of basic sailing technicalities that those of us who grew up on the water take for granted. This race certainly had a global impact on not just the professional yacht racing scene but also cruiser racer and off shore cruising design.
I talked to a Dutch navy officer that was involved in the rescue operation of the Fastnet race. His ship was requested to be around "just in case". Well, it turned out to be the worst experience of his naval career. But, they managed ot rescue a number of people together with the UK navy. It was horrible, he said.
Wow, of an entire naval career and that's the worst. I can't imagine being out there in a 30 foot sailing boat.
This video is criminally underrated! I love your style, your voice and the editing. Very professional and informative!
Thanks. I appreciate that
But with a lot of misinformation. I was there.
Unfortunately the video illustrates a complete misunderstanding of both yacht design and rating rules, footage from races that happened decades later, and a host of completely false statements.
I raced the 1979 Fastnet as crew on GitanaVI ,I was twenty five years old....a very tought experience ...we finished at 6th place overall
Salut Alessandro, did you participate at the two ton worlds at Poole ??
Georges from "Sur"
Left for Dead is an Amazing read, and gives you a clear and visceral understanding of what it was like on that boat.
In the disastrous Sydney to Hobart race the vintage wooden boat called the Winston Churchill, which weighed 17 tons if i remember correctly, was picked up by a huge wave and literally thrown like a spear into the back of the wave in front, smashing the boat to pieces. That shows you how bad it can get
Not quite smashed to pieces, but still incredibly bad. From the Coroners Report...
At approximately 4.30pm on the afternoon of Sunday the 27th two crew members were on deck, Richard Winning, who was steering and John Dean. What occurred next is best described by Richard Winning: "About 4.30 I should've, I should say was around the time we got hit by this wave. I, I, I'm not, not, never been good at judging the height of waves so I couldn't say what it was except to say it was a good deal higher than the top of the mast so, you know, it'd have to be 60 feet, I should think, not so much the size of the, the wave that concerned me as, as its steepness. It was a very steep wave and breaking at the top when we started to climb up it. We got about halfway up, my intention was to try and just get up as quick as I could and nip right over the top of it, but we just didn't have the pace for that and the shape of the wave didn't, wouldn't have allowed it anyway unless we were going a good deal faster than we were. It picked us up, threw us down on our side. At that stage I was steering, John Dean was on watch with me, sitting beside the helm. That wave picked the, picked the boat up and just threw her down on her side, broke on top of us, John and I were swept over." (Richard Winning, 29th December, 1998, p.9)
"Winston Churchill" was not rolled by this wave but was knocked down so severely that serious damage was sustained by her. John Stanley described it as like "hitting a brick wall." (John Stanley, 29th December, 1998, p.11)
"Winston Churchill's" three coach house windows on the port side were smashed. The port side bulwark had been damaged to the extent that approximately two metres (6 feet) had been carried away in the vicinity of the chainplates (Richard Winning, 29th December, 1998, p.3) (John Stanley, 25th December, 1998, p.12). But of greater concern was that "Winston Churchill" had been damaged below the waterline on the port side. There is no firm evidence on precisely where or what this damage was. However the survivors believe it was below the port side chainplates, the mast being stepped about one third of the vessel's length from the bow.
Very good explanation of this tragedy. Poor Matthew having to watch his dad float away :(
An interesting video.
I am a 70 year old Australian sailor, I have sailed in 3 Sydney Hobart races including 1993 which was the worst before the 1998 race.
I sailed as a helmsman/navigator.
In the ninteen 80's I recall a family barbeque after a local Sydney club racing day.
A friend of my father sailed in the 1979 Fastnet race on an Australian boat.
His take away from the Fastnet disaster was that too many boats did not have "storm boards" for the hatch sufficient to cope with the breaking waves that were crashing onto the yachts.
He also said too many crews jumped into life rafts (only to perish) while the yachts they abandoned survived the storm.
Just a comment, food for thought.
ps. In 1993 Hobart race I was aware of a case where the crew launched a liferaft against the skipper's orders ( he had no option but to get in with them) and they watched the yacht happily sail over the horizon, never to be seen again!
In the 1993 Hobart I retired (my) boat after discussing our options with the owner and 17 hours later, we limped into a refuge port at 3am with no electrics and no motor. Many of the crew were annoyed that we retired.
But I was the one listening to the weather reports and I was the one assessing how competent this crew was to handle a REAL storm.
I was the one to assess how they would react in a REAL emergency!
Choose carefully, who you go to sea with!
Thanks for your comments. I think it's incredibly hard to make a decision to retire. You have to balance the disappointment of the crew who's lives you are trying to protect against their inability to realise they're in over their heads.
Choose VERY Carefully
I believe another problem was the types of radios the boats were required to have. I can't remember whether it was HF, VHF, UHF, SSB or what but the Fastnet boats were lacking the best resource they needed for communication. This may have been a factor in why _Grimalkin_ missed that French weather report that forecast the storm.
That said, just knowing what was coming would not have suddenly plucked anyone out of the Irish Sea or the Western Approaches but it might have led to some better decision making.
😮I sailed in this race with my step father (Peter Goodwright) John Lilly (boat owner) and Bill Monroe. Rounded the Fastnet set the spinnaker and crack shredded. Looked at the following seas and hoped for the best. Came 1st in class.
I have been sailing for over 20 years. Your explanations were spot on.
Unfortunately they do not concur with David Shearan's son Mathews account of this tragic accident.
I do however believe THIS explanation to his own son's even if he was maybe shadowed by his emotions at the time.
There is too much difference in the explanation here that makes sense to actually believe that of Mathew Shearan^s anymore. Such a pity for Mathew and well done that sailor who published his book to tell THE TRUTH.
Well myself ? near 70 years, and about Pacific sailing in trimarans ... eek!
@@jackshea6937 Lucky or well prepared ?
It only takes ONE rogue storm.
Conditions can change within minutes notwithstanding the barometre.
One of the best sail boat pitchpole ever heard, great job!
Thanks I appreciate that
So looking forward to this video, stunning location, it was worth the wait, safe travels, look forward to the next
Very fascinating story .... I am glad it was recommended. I have learned so much about not only the Fastnet '79 event, but about racing vessels and sailing. Thank you.
I have been following Mozzy Sails and the America's Cup, and the racing in this story is very impressive and a whole different level. Much respect.
I prefer the offshore racing. Its just a personal preference. I also prefer cruising to racing so offshore just suits me better. Have you read the Story of Robin Knox Johnson?
He was the first man to sail solo non stop around the world. Its a great read about Offshore Sailing.
amzn.to/3G4l9Vi
@@waterlinestories I thought the first to sail non stop around the world was Sir Francis Chichester, in Gypsy Moth 4 or 5. About 1967?
Gott moth was robin Knox Johnson
Wow what beautiful corals and views too.From the light house or other ways well worth the trip. Coral was well liked too. So sweet. Really enjoyed the video with so much diverse. Can wait for next week video. Good job guys 😘⛵️🏖🌴😍❤️
Man these are stories are really amazing. You're obviously a pro in the domains keep it up.
At 1:34 it is a very nice shot of "Brindabella" in the 1998 Sydney Hobart race before the conditions worsened.
There are later shots of Brindabella in huge waves under stormsail only!
Very well researched, narrated and produced. Thank you for reminding of this fateful turning point in sailing history.
Thanks for watching
I am not a sailor, but this narrator explains this tragedy so lucidly,so sad though.
What a nice clear description for someone like me who knows nothing about boating. Thanks! Good job.
Thanks for saying so.
As a non-sailor it sometimes is hard to understand what movement the boat does or is able to do.
But for me you did a great job to visualize and explain that.
So thanks for the insight and all the other videos you did before :)
Brilliant. Thanks for that
For anyone interested more thoroughly and more technically why and how IOR missed the major factor in boatbuilding for bluewater/coastal sailing I recommend the book "Seaworthyness - the Forgotten Factor" by C.A. Marchaj from 1986, where he researches and works through the engineering side of seaworthiness as far and deep as it is possible, at all.
There's a paperback reprint version available, the original hardcovers only in maritime antique bookshops as far as I would know.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing
@@waterlinestories My pleasure.
Marchaj, a Polish-born British yachtsman, was directly inspired and driven to research this topic after the 1979 Fastnet debacle.
I personally came across Marchaj and his very thorough scientific research of sailboat aerodynamics and comparing research of different approaches towards sail performance when I was looking into different, not-so-conservative sail shapes and rigg-forms for singlehanders. He definitely was one of the less parochial researchers the sailing world had until his death, while not the best known or most often cited one - hence the recommendation. Not many seem to know or remember him and his massive scientific work.
Having read parts of this book, it reinforces what's long been obvious to experienced of sailors. Older, full keel, designs, like those conforming to the CCA rule will generally "take care of themselves" in extreme weather far better than boats designed to exploit the later IOR formula. CCA type designs may not perform as well on the wind but are far more stable in extreme conditions and will almost recover from a knockdown, or worse if they retain their watertight integrity.
Nice brief summary. For thos that want to read up on this, the best treatment of the topic of Fastnet and Hobart disasters and the aspects of yacht design that contribute to a seaworthy yacht is IMO Aldler Cole's Heavy Weather Sailing. Another commentor mentioned Hal Roth. I have a few of his books and remember there being coverage of seaworthy yacht design in one but don't remember Fastnet 79 being covered in any detail. I've not read Fastnet Force Ten. Your focus seemed to be on telling the story of one boat in the race but giving the context. Thanks for the video.
Interesting I’ll check it out
I read John Rosmyers book "Fastnet Force Ten" years ago. What a story.
I haven't read that one. I'll have to get a copy. Thanks for watching
Good book. It gives a lot of info on design and what works in heavy weather and what doesn't.
Great book, but John is better at writing history books. Sailors, like their fishermen forefathers, have a tendency to overstate conditions they had to face. It doesn't mean it isn't true, just that you need to scale every report by logarithmically. The ' 79 Fastnet wasn't sailor's (or fishermen's tale) it was a brutal race. We shouldn't have the luxury of second guessing their decisions. Hard choices have to be made is hard circumstance.
@@mcribenthusiast7010 And for every decision some one agrees with another ten are lining up to give a different take on what should have been done.
Excellent analysis of the 79 Fastnet race and how certain yachts were affected by extremely rare conditions. Fortunately I missed out on this race. A fellow racing crew member while we were out in a gale in the Bay of Biscay told me the following in 81 about his experience during the 79 race :
I was on the helm focusing on maintaining our heading as we dropped down the back of the waves at really high speed, then coming back up to the next crest. At one point we reached the next wave crest at 12 o'clock to us, for some reason I turned around to our 8 o'clock and was now looking up at a vertical wall of water about the height of a two story house. I don't remember it hitting us but recall being lifted off the deck by the water and being immersed into it for a moment, when I came up, the boat had disappeared, the remaining part of the mast then poked out slowly from the water and the boat began to right itself, rising up more quickly. Until I felt the deck make contact with my feet as the boat came back up out of the water. I now found myself just ahead of the mast as she rose out of the water. For some reason the moment I felt the deck touch my feet, I felt certain things would be okay.
Crikey. Can you imagine how disorientating that must be. And then the relief when you make contact again.
Thanks for sharing.
You wot m8?!?!
Whatever you're doing differently now has made the audio quality much better. 👍
Thanks. I found someone to work with on the sound. It's not my forte
Remembering that Sydney to Hobart race where Navy Helicopter pilots winched boat crews to safety with 60 foot seas kissing the bottom belly of the helicopter. Hero's in anybody's language.
You said it
Heroes all no doubt about it
Mate, I know one of the rescue swimmer guys. I said how the hell did you survive being dropped in 60foot swell. He said the only thing that kept him alive was the winch line. It stopped him going under and never returning. Said the walls of water were so big you couldn't take it all in and it was pitch black under it.
@@williamcain7773 There is very good book on the race n rescue well worth the read chopper stalls on landing running on fumes Two young ladies got winched down in cat 1 cyclone condition s champion s every one of them
I know people who were in the 1998 Hobart and I knew people who were involved in the rescue. I knew a police air wing pilot who talked about how he had a swimmer on the end of a 30 metre wire. as he was trying to lower the swimmer into the water, he looked up just in time to see the crest of a wave heading straight for the helicopter. He hauled on the collective and started reeling in the swimmer as fast as he could. The police air wing Dauphin helcopters were a bit marginal for excess power as it was. The helicopter cleared the top of the wave but the swimmer was dragged through the crest. Everyone survived but they were lucky.
Wow! Excellent production and flawless presentation. I love it.
Thanks, I appreciated that
Seen one of your episode, now I am on a quest to see them all. Very informative and professional.
Thanks. Welcome aboard
Nice goin those people. Similar thing in the the Sydney to Hobart a few years ago. Keep up the good work sailors from an retired Paper Tiger Driver.
Good effort on the IOR explanation. My Dads' boat survived the 79' with very minor damage. Illingworth and Primrose Miaca
Currents, wind, directions, intensity: never the same. Always a different experience. You get yourself 500 miles offshore in a 20 knot boat; you're at the mercy of God.
I remember that race. I was sailing in an open boat when I saw the wind piping up on the Sunday. Admittedly, it was two days before the disaster. But believe me, that wind was strong! I managed to steer inshore and anchored on the mudflats. I walked ashore. The anchor had dug so deep that I needed a spade to dig it out. Morningcloud was suddenly in the news.
My father told me about this a long time ago (that's the year I was born), my father is a sailor, and that love passed on to me, and this story has always remained in my memory, and when I sail, I always look at the weather report, even though I sail in the Mediterranean, which is relatively quiet
I experienced 14 hours of Force 10 in the Mediterranean. Maybe that's 'relatively quiet' but I reckon I must hold the World Seasickness Record!
Thankyou, extremely well presented, professional and compassionate.🇦🇺🌟
Thanks
Great delivery and editing, enjoyed your presentation style, your a natural. really enjoyed, thank you.
Thanks I appreciate that
Thanks for this video. Your explanations made clear some concepts on which I was foggy.
T
thank you for such a sobering clear. Description from which all can learn.
The Jordan Series Drogue was developed as a result of the Fastnet and Sydney to Hobart yachting disasters. The drogue is well worth checking out if anyone’s not familiar with it.
A fine video and good analysis. We did this race in a 34ft boat. Trailing a very long bight of sheets (sail control ropes) slowed the boat sufficiently to stop her running too fast down the waves. We did this after 2 x 180 degree inversions. Neither was a speed-induced pitch pole, both were chaotic breaking seas, very steep, and certainly higher that Cosmic Dancer's mast, so 40ft. We were lucky, and Grimalkin was not.
Good morning, my name is Michele Lari and my Grandpa Alessandro Lari was on Yena designed by Patterson and owned by Sergio Doni, one of the three italian vessels. Yena was one of the most competitive boat in italy and it has a great reputation in the sailing community, especially here in forte dei marmi our home.
As one of the vessels in the fastnet race in 1979, i do know their point of view. I’ll tell you the story….
My grandpa, as u said, was down in the kitchen during the no wind situation when suddenly, this is what he said to my father, “the plate with the fresh pasta inside flew away”. That was the begging of the hell. When he went up to check the situation there were massive waves and the boat was completely out of control. He took off the main sali cutting the main halyard, then he went to the back to help a man which was out board helped by a safe rope. At that point he said to the main of the crew to go below deck to keep them safe and he kept the control of the helm for 15 hours straight. I red on a paper that the official skipper was Dick Deaver but that night he was incable of steer the boat. My grandpa saved their life and most of the time he was at the helm, he was the greatest friend of Sergio Doni the owner and he told him to bring them home safe, and that’s what he did.
My grandpa won a lot of other title, he won the Italian championship, Europe and even an admirals cup.
Unfortunately he died 12 years ago but i keep him in my heart. Right now i’m a sailor on class 420 and i’m 20 years old, i’m sailing since i was 8.
You will find every information on “Giornale Della Vela” and other italian web site.
I hope you enjoyed reading this little piece of sailing history.
I wish the best to everyone, Kind Regards,
Michele.
Fortunately my boat is a 1977 built UFO 34 cruiser/racer, one of the stiffest boats of its era. A sister ship, fully kitted out as a production vessel, came second overall and left all the stripped out competitors in her classtrailing in her wake in the 1977 Fastnet
.
Thanks for an educational and fascinating look into something I knew little about.
Brilliantly explained, Sir !
Shipping forecast was every 6 hours.
Most of the boats though dismasted did not sink and were found abandoned. The mistake was to abandon the boat .
I fully remember the tragedy as the boat I was on would have been in the race, but we lost our mast in a storm of cowes the day before the race.
The Fastnet enquiry made many recommendations
Was that the "Politician" that went on to win the Hobart overall? I met the young skipper Murray and his hands were covered in salt water sore scars! He also crewed in the 1982 America's cup!
Excellent presentation. You've obviously had a look at the '98 Hobart as well. Sailing a Mirror on a shallow lake is dangerous. Take care and do the best you can.
Thanks will do.
@@waterlinestories The origins of the Mirror might make a good light hearted story.
My sister and husband were in that storm but not competing. They had an engine failure and almost didn't make it back to port. They had a small 22 ft. Silhouette and had the engine fail at the worst possible time. They made it back to Newport, just.
As a sailor myself, you must adhere to the limitations of the boat, your self as a sailor, the safety of the crew and boat and the conditions. Many boaties do not understand their boats and get into trouble.
EXCELLENT VIDEO
1) 30ft. was suicidal
2) A short keel wide boat is only stable in predictable seas because you need A LOT of crew perched on the weather rail to keep it stable in place of the short keel.
3) The 1st pitch pole in those seas was the sign to the life boat ready. It doesn’t matter if the boat is still afloat if it drowned you like a rolling alligator. The mast and keel were in a race to see which snapped first.
4) I couldn’t find the make and model of this boat quickly. I damn sure hope it was not an “ultralight displacement boat.“ Even worse.
Thanks. Great comments about the stability factors.
Great content my man. I'm really enjoying these stories as I'm sure others are aswell. Keep it up, this channel will blow up...💪💪💪
Thanks, I certainly hope so
You should cover the Chris lemons story. I've watched all your videos in a few hrs and I need more. You explain things that make it so easy to understand
Busy editing that exact video for next week
I remember this well as I was camping with my father in St Ives. At some point over the night we went and took shelter in a nearby house. Scary enough on land, it must’ve been utterly terrifying at sea.
I never thought about it being bad on land but I can see that if you're camping it would be.
This is awesome, you explain some of the complicated details so well. Brings back memories when I was thinking about to the Webb Institute. Great job.
Thanks I appreciate that
A sad reminder of the Fastnet Race and those who lost their lives. I was mid atlantic at the time on a merchant vessel from Baltimore to Chiba via Cape Good Hope and well remember the Atlantic swell and storm force wind.
Brilliant video and explanation about Fastnet79, kind regards from Germany.
Thanks. I'm also based in Germany. Niedersachsen
The story of Grimalkin is one that most sailors have heard or read about and still stands as a lesson in the kind of horrendous conditions that can happen, a perfect storm as it were and I offer my sincere condolences to the survivors and families of the sailors who died . At the same time as the Fastnet was going on, There was a J-30 sailed being single-handed from the US East coast to England that happened to close in on land (fastnet rock? Or Plymouth? I Don't know) that was also caught in the storm. I recall reading about this boat in Yachting? Magazine and the sailor reported the 30-ft J boat suffered a complete 180 degree roll twice and survived the storm without damage to himself or the boat as I recall. I believe the sailor was testing the newly designed J-30 as a capable single-handed offshore boat. Does anyone recall the name of this J-30 and the sailor who sailed it. I would like to read again the account of his trip and storm tactics, and how well the boat held up. I recall he didn't sail poles only but had a shortened jib used as a stormsail. Another sad sailng story that didn't get the world coverage like the Fastnet was a JAPAN NORC yacht race from TOKYO to Guam in the late '80s/early '90s that also resulted in the loss of 21 plus lives as the group of 14 boats were caught in a winter storm roaring out of China shortly after they departed Sagami Bay, Japan. The loss of keels in the heavy seas was the main cause of boats capsizing and crew unable to launch liferafts. An 8? Person crew that that did manage to launch a liferaft ended up lost at sea for more than a month before being found by a commercial freighter, only one crew member survived, the other 7 died due to exposure and thirst. I can't recall the exact dates of this disaster. ###
Thanks for mentioning. I dont recall the J30 but Ill try and look up both that yacht and the Japan Norc race.
@@waterlinestories Hey thanks, there was also another J-30 that was actually signed in the Fastnet Race. Sorry memory is not as keen as when younger.
For those who are studying: Waterline Length is for the length based Froude Number. And waves combining is Super-Constructive
There were some problems that meant that not all rescue resources were mustered during the 1979 Fastnet Race disaster. This subsequently led to all British SAR aircraft of the time (which were all military) being brought under the same tasking authority from 1979 onwards. Some thirty years later, in 2009, a poorly co-ordinated rescue meant that the lesson had to be learnt again and British civilian SAR aircraft were brought under that same tasking authority from 1st April 2010. These events are a part of the reason that we have ended up with a successful unified system for air rescue at the UK JRCC.
Dude your channel is good, I’m stoked I found your channel
Several of the breakdowns during that race occurred when rudder posts failed. At that time, carbon fiber was a new boat building material and designers used it to build lighter rudder posts. However, they did not trust carbon fiber to do the whole job. So they built a thin aluminum post and wrapped it in carbon fiber. The idea was that the two materials would work together to create a light but strong post. Unfortunately, the materials did not work together as they have different flex characteristics. As it turns out, all of one material took the load until it failed and then the other took the load until it failed. Neither material was designed to carry 100% of the load.
Many modern cruising Yachts have a Hollow tube made from poor materials as the rudder stock, they corrode from the inside & break ~ the snazzy colour adverts dont mention That.
My 10m Freedom has a 3inch solid steel stock, with rods & bell Cranks, built like a Tank. 😀😄
Nick Ward, the surviving crew-member of the Grimalkin who wrote his account of the race and the storm called ‘Left For Dead’ many years after, is my Uncle. I was 8 years old when he was missing and presumed dead by his family during that long night when he and Jerry lay unconscious and abandoned by the rest of the crew, and the memory is vivid. He was in fact rescued in the end not from the dismasted hull of the yacht but from the sea, where he had been holding the body of Jerry with him for a long time before being winched finally to safety by a very brave and skilled helicopter crew.
After he had left hospital and recovered physically from the ordeal, word came to the owner that a Spanish trawler had found the Grimalkin adrift and towed it into a Spanish port - Nick volunteered to fly over where rigged her and sailed her home alone.
He never showed any bitterness towards the men who left him behind, with little hope of rescue, no means of communication or escape, to suffer for many hours on the violently pitching, tumbling hulk and then in the cold heaving sea, with a dying man for company, and nor did he blame them or express self-pity, but readers of his his gripping and nightmarish account might come to their own conclusions about the behaviour of those that escaped on the life raft.
Nick is a modest and well-liked family man in retirement, still living near the Solent, well-known among sailors for his adventure and still enjoying the life he so nearly lost.
Thanks for sharing that. I really enjoyed his book. Ive read comments about what people speculate the relationship is, between Matthew and Nick. For the most part I know that accidents dont happen on purpose and they always stoke emotions. Its great to hear from someone who has first hand knowledge.
If ever you find the opportunity, please say thanks for writing the book. A friend of mine sailed the Fastnet in 2015 and he read it then, then gave it to me to read. I think its a must read for anyone going to sea. It was also courageous to share such a raw experience with the world.
Thanks for your reply - I will share your film with Nick, it’s a great piece of work and I’m sure he will enjoy your channel too and the other fine films you have made.
@@spitfires1979 Thanks, that kind of you.
Never done the Fastnet myself but two friends of mine did and were lucky to walk a from it. Really sad for all the family's left behind 🙄
Very good explanation.
The postscript to this is that Grimalkin didn’t sink but was recovered 4 days later by Fishermen. I raced on her in 1988. (we took lead shot out of the bilges) She then was refurbished and raced out of Weymouth about 10 years ago and is now in Europe. Certainly, the lack of form stability and high up ballast (to optimise the CSF) didn’t help.
Interesting. Do you know where in Europe she is by any chance?
@@waterlinestories
Excellent explanation of the terms and principles in layman's terms. Keep up the good work.
Thanks. And thanks for watching
Excellent decriptions. Extremely well done oresentation.
Thanks
Hi man. I have read that book by Nick Ward many times. It is a very strong story and i cant help tears coming.
Really great video by you 😎❤️
Thanks. Yes it's a good book. A friend of mine sailed the fastnet in 2015 and read that before the race. Just to sharpen the focus. 😳
@@waterlinestories New Subber here. Have heard this Fastnet disaster story a few times. Yours was a compelling take, TY! Also never heard of the book, so off I go and looking forward to it! 👍😁
Great stuff. Enjoy
Thank you for the very well done video. Many of the brand new boats carry a lot of the same similar characteristics as the fastnet 79 boats.Wide beams for two cabins and shallow drafts so they can get closer into Shore while they Cruise. A lot of the new designs should not be taken out into the ocean as they are not suitable and should be used for their intended purposes on protected Waters and Inland Lakes. Although many of these new boats have been cruised successfully there is a greater risk taking them into oceans with changing weather patterns. When I built my 39 ft steel hull I had read John Rousmaniere's desirable and undesirable characteristics of offshore yachts which was an excellent read. For any sailor or couple that intends to go Blue Water sailing please do your research before purchasing a sailboat. This research may save you and your family from making a bad mistake. And as they say research is free and worth the time.
I just subscribed to your channel. Keep up the outstanding work!
Thanks
Good to see you back and recovered from your surgery. Great shots of the Farur Islands. Good luck Bram
Not sure this is meant for this channel?
Very good analysis. One very obvious lesson that sadly wasn't learnt from the fastnet was the importance of ensuring that weather warning updates from all sources was made available swiftly. Today technology has changed. But then it was all about not giving yachts a potential tactical advantage. It is essential IMO that organisers be prepared to cancel an event at any stage. There is a duty of care. More frequent extreme weather is I think a real risk.
The French forecasters got it right ahead of time.
The French predictions were better than the UK. But another issue was that the UK Extreme weather updates were behind the curve so to speak. They were issuing updates, but conditions were already at, or beyond the predicted state. So yachts that were following the updates were lulled into thinking that they were already through the worst. Of course the exhausted and stressed human brain latched onto that with relief, rather than evaluating the ongoing trend of the reports being incorrect and adjusting course accordingly. Not that there was much relief in changing course given the sea state at the time.
Awesome informative storytelling video. 👍🙏
A chilling and engaging and left feeling gained video.
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed
Hi. This is good safety information. I did notice you mentioned that when you reef the sail it is tied around the boom and the picture also shows that description. I always tie the reef lines around the foot of the sail not all the way around the boom as in high winds it is likely to tear the sail. This is to tidy up the bag in the foot. The reef should be tight between the Clew and the Tack.
Interesting. All the boats, skippers and instructors Ive sailed on/with have tied in around the boom. I can see the logic. Just not had the experience of sailing with a skipper who does not tie in around the boom.
@@waterlinestories Mark Greig is right, though you can only do that with loose-footed mains. In 1979 it was common for mains to run in a groove along the boom - some idea of aerodynamic efficiency.
The Fastnet disaster was exacerbated by crews abandoning boats that stayed afloat throughout the storm.
@@Lightw81 Thanks @Nick B
I think what you're saying is the pressure of the sail is borne at the ram's horn at the luff and the clew at the leech. The tie downs in the middle of the sail are not supposed to bear much force at all, but are mainly to secure the loose sail to the boom.
@@mhub3576 exactly. The leech and luff reef points are reinforced.
fantastic graphics and narration. Thank you.
Thanks. I appreciate you saying so
I have just sold my 62 foot classic yacht and bought a 35 foot x 1 tonner aluminium camper Nicholson 1974 . Beautifully built and small . I’m hoping it sails well and safe . It has sailed around the world a few times though
Two best days of a sailors life. Happy sailing.
@@waterlinestories I tell you the 62 foot classic Italian yacht nearly killed me financially . Was sad to sell but I required crew and only me and the dog living on it . This camper Nicholson has no shower no hot water no nothing to speak of . Basic is the best but good rig and hardware is of course paramount. At least I can sail around on my own . Thankyou and look forward to watching your channel. Hopefully some good stories
@@andreflavell3453 A friend of mine and I bought a 24ft Achilles for next to nothing. It was a piece of shite but at least it didnt cost us much to maintain. Although we spent every weekend maintaining it...
Having something you can sail and isnt a noose around your neck is the best boat you can have.
Although we all dream about a beautiful wooden ship with perfect lines and woman sunbathing on the foredeck.
@@waterlinestories that’s the trap I fell into . Lost a lot of $ but gained freedom. It was steel beautifully built and rolled but ply decks with teak and miles of it . The leaks became overwhelming. At least I gave it a new life . Very happy to have a very basic boat as only me and the dog . It’s tumble home and no wood anywhere. Nice stern and flush deck as I was used to . Only 2 hatches . I appreciate your response
Racing hulls are often planing nowadays, leaving the displacement in the past. Broader aft, heavier keel, different rigg. And we have much better weather forecast and navigation. A race would probably be called off or never start if too tough weather is ahead.
I have known about the waterline limit for a long time. Now I actually understand it.
Great video - particularly loved the comparison to the Sidney Hobart!
I was 11 years old and on a camping holiday in Brixham, south Devon. As a result, there was no tv, just the occasional news on the car radio and, of course, the Shipping Forecast on BBC Radio 4 long wave. Maybe a newspaper now and again. I was vaguely aware that the disaster happened but no real details, so getting more of the story 44 years later was interesting.
To be honest, the reason Fastnet stuck in my head is the happening on the campsite. We'd been out for the day, mainly to see the Bond film Moonraker in Torquay to be out of the wind and rain. We got back to the campsite to find that the family in the tent (a large 3 bedroom affair) next to ours was no longer there.
It turned out they came back to find their tent missing. The wind had ripped it out of the ground, lifted it over two hedges and the lane before depositing the wreckage in a field 50-75 metres away. It was the only tent in the whole campsite to suffer any damage on what was an incredibly wet and windy day. It's not something I'm ever going to forget. 😮😮❤😮😮
Good educational video, thank you.
Really appreciate you explain yachting terms and phenomena like hull speed. Thanks
All I can say is wow! What a story! I had no idea it existed.
Id love to sail this some time.
I really love what you're doing here, but the technical explanation was lacking. Not your fault and I think Ron Holland who designed the boat and Camper and Nicholson are inappropriately maligned for what happened. Grimalkin became the focus because people died, but that specific boat is pretty safe by MOST of the numbers.
It's worth starting out with 3 things
1.) She didn't sink,
2.) She righted herself without drowning anyone, and
3.) She was being sailed in extreme wind conditions (Force 10) which were aggravated by the local sea bottom, which caused towering breakers coming from just about every direction.
But to review your technical explanation
It's not carrying the beam aft that makes IOR boats unstable down wind. LWL is measured in a straight line from the submerged portion of the stem to the stern. Making her beamier has no effect on LWL, though it does increase form stability which pays fewer dividends as the boat heels.
Digging into that
Here's the stability curve for Grimalkin (A Nicholson 30 1/2 Tonner)vs a Contessa 32 www.schoonerman.com/ship-design/images/1511_10_47-grimalkin-yacht.jpg
You'll notice up to about 25 degrees they generate the same righting moment! Grimalkin falls off she gets so much of her righting moment from her hull shape through form stability - illustrated here www.modernwoodenboat.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/figure-3.jpg As Grimalkin continues to heel and there is no more hull to submerge she doesn't have the ballast to generate much righting moment like the Contessa 32 does in the graph. Grimalkin's draft is 5'9" which is pretty deep for a 30 footer, not shallow as you said in the video. Her balast-to-displacement ratio is .51 which is pretty good! sailboatdata.com/sailboat/nicholson-12-ton The Contessa 32 in our GZ curve is .47, which is technically lower even though her GZ curve is better sailboatdata.com/sailboat/contessa-32
It was Grimalkin's beam and hull shape that generated TOO MUCH form stability, including when upside down, and pinched stern that seem to be the real short comings of her lines.
I think the most valuable lessons of the race are administrative and procedural. Reforms around things like crew preparedness, NOT abandoning ship, making sure you're clipped in, and a willingness to call it off due to bad weather have certainly saved lives since then.
Some constructive criticism - great content, I love your videos!
Thanks, I'll take some time to digest that. I appreciate the feedback. I wish I had technical consultants to really dig in before publishing. Over time I think Ill end up learning more than I impart. I certainly hope so.
@@waterlinestories For sure dude, keep up the great work! Im only an armchair diver - I got my OW cert and never used it lol. But I am a lifelong sailor, aspiring liveaboard, and briefly worked on the design side in the marine industry. Feel free to reach out if you have questions!
I read the story of Dave Shaw just this morning - I'll watch your video on it!
Thanks. I'll hit you up on maritime design. Id really appreciate that. I obviously could do with the help.
Isn't that leaving out other design and build factors. Keel design can impact directional stability. Hull/keel design affecting roll damping. Other integrity issues creating water entry points such as companionways/washboards, cockpit lockers, ventilators, hatches/skylights, the mast coat/surround, leaks under deck fittings. A small number of yachts experience damage to the hull/deck join. Steering gear damage, failure of reserve steering systems. Not mentioning the failure of masts. When 33% of the yachts experience knockdowns substantially beyond horizontal you have to look at design/build issues even if they are not related to ballast/ratio or length/displacement ratio.
@@colbr6733 I totally agree, your concerns about build quality and closing the boat up tight were and are crucial to survival. My discussion of form stability IS that stability which is generated by hull shape.
I brought up those general ratios because that's what was mentioned in the video and that's what was 'reformed' after the disaster. It's also what most people look at first, but I agree it give an incomplete picture. As I said, by the numbers, Grimalkin was a very safe design. General seamanship and storm preparedness are what keep you safe.
That's an interesting film, thank-you! The title is a little misleading as it only applies to Grimalkin; the ensuing disaster for many of the other yachts was a little different. Accepting all the elements of freak atmospheric conditions, confused and appalling sea state, localised hurricane force winds and all the other factors that found weaknesses in IOR boats there was one over-riding factor that caused more problems than it solved..... The fact that people abandoned their boats and took to liferafts. I know it's easy to say that from the comfort of home, but it is true. Only ever climb-up in to a liferaft, never step down. Hindsight is a cruel thing, but if many of the crews had stayed with their boats then the loss of life and injury would surely have been lower. RIP to them all though.
Yes good points. Thanks for your insight
This bit at 3:34 makes no sense--waterline length is *not* increased by a wider beam. Otherwise, all our racing boats would be incredibly wide...which they obviously aren't. I was nodding along with your excellent explanation up to that point, but a wider beam is added for a larger righting moment, to increase sail-carrying ability. It has no effect on water line length.
Thanks for pointing that out. A few people have called me on that. I had researched and I was confident my understanding was correct but it seems Im wrong. I am putting in place some checks and balances to make sure my info is accurate and sense checked before I publish. I really dont want to be putting out incorrect info. Thanks for speaking up.
@@waterlinestories You're not wrong. As a vessel heels the water flow along the hull increases giving it a longer waterline, draw diagonals on a half body plan and measure each one, you'll soon see even by eye, those of us who went to college and studied the subject and have a shelf full of design books know this!
But this is the whole problem with amateur weekend racing sailors and a contributing factor to the Fastnet disaster, lack of knowledge!
Yes racing boats or cruising boats that have design features akin to racing, fin keels and skeg rudders a prime example, are simply not seamanlike and the skippers not good seamen. As I've said elsewhere I knew two cruising vessels in the thick of that gale, the smallest being a 27ft Helford Cutter, and they just rode it out drinking tea below whilst mayhem raged all around them due to bad seamanship and bad design. Take the yacht featured here, Gremilkin, first major eyesore to being a good seaboat is that retrousse stern! The deeper it gets the less bouyant it becomes! Bad, very very bad. I could go on pulling racing boat designs apart but I don't need to, the end result of the race speaks for me, bad design and bad seamanship, a fatal combination.
Very well explained. The only thing I can add is that sailing yachts, in the majority, are built so lightly. I couldnt believe when many years ago (for the first time) i lent against the railing of a sailing yacht and almost went over the side. Coming from years on displacement heavy built vessels i was aghast at just how flimsy they are built and to this day still are. There are exceptions of course but anywhere say up to about 50 foot the lightness of build/fixtures/fittings etc in fibreglass sailing yachts is scary to me.
We have a CSY44. 37,000 lbs. very heavy sailboat
We have a CSY44. 37,000 lbs. very heavy sailboat
We have a CSY44. 37,000 lbs. very heavy sailboat
We have a CSY44. 37,000 lbs. very heavy sailboat
We have a CSY44. 37,000 lbs. very heavy sailboat
0:40 What's the story of this picture? Looks like they are one hand short. Or would that be half a hand?
I know that individual crew members are "hands" but is one crew member 1 hand or 2?
Theres a saying on boats that you have one hand to hold yourself steady and one hand for the boat. So 1 person = 1 hand for the boat.
Another interesting story! Great upload as always 🙏🙏🙏
Thanks. Good to see you coming back
I’ve read all the books , but never seen it explained like this video , an eye opener, and a tragic accident, they are well known designers so was it the rules that caused them to overlook the seaworthiness of their design in bad weather
Im certain they would have been trying to balance all the forces.
At first glance it seems size matters however the largest yacht doing a kayak eskimo roll was the 46ft Admiral's cupper "Jan Pott" (all survived). On the 40' "Tai Fat" we did a pitch-pole slamming the top of the mast into the water ahead and damaging our VHF antenna. It still worked when we relayed a mayday on behalf of "Grimalkin" later that day. I took several pictures of the helicopter rescuing Nick and hoisting the deceased Gary. Thanks to vastly improved communications and forecasts this will not happen again to a fleet of racing boats.
This is one of my favourite parts of telling these stories is hearing from people who were there. Thanks for sharing
19 years later, Sidney to Hobart enters the room.