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Aggressors Can Have OBSCENE Bolter Firepower - Apothecary Biologis + Bolter Discipline Damage Combo
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- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2024
- Let's talk through a fairly common competitive damage combo - aggressors plus an apothecary biologis with bolter discipline!
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0:00 Intro
1:43 Aggressors
3:08 Apothecary Biologis
3:46 Support + Strats
6:19 Damage Output - Ranged
9:23 Melee Damage
10:20 Support and Delivery
14:20 Outro
I'm just glad the biologus has a home
He always had a home with gravis units
For the next couple weeks before all marines are unplayable again with the oaths nerfs.
How marines get nerfed 10x harder than Eldar with literally 3/4 of their win rate is literally beyond me. So frustrating.
@@gregoryfischer-rush6310 same I'm baffled
I hate that he has only 1 use that's really good right now and may get nerfed if it becomes a marine auto include at every event
He probably won’t for long given the rules team’s stupidity and possible spite towards SM factions
I will never regret equipping my Aggressors with Flamestorm gauntlets, but I am disappointed to see how consistently GW is buffing the other option while the flames get nothing.
You see fellow flamestorm enjoyer, the lack of buffs is meant to stoke your rage
Looks like the Firestorm Assault Force will work nicely for you though.
Do you not see the irony of primaris marines complaining about rules favouritism and not being a priority?
Flamers are already pretty decent my guy, this is only good because of the combo. Flamers make you extremely dangerous to charge.
As a Salamanders player, I feel a little sad that their boltstorm option is significantly more powerful, but that won't stop me from playing them with the right weapons (I'll still be a little sad about it tho).
Here's hoping that we can get a stratagem to get anti-infantry or something once their detachment comes out.
It’s 2 am where I live, perfect time for an Auspex’s crazy combo video 😂
DAMN RIGHT IT IS. 😂
After discussing the Librarian Dreadnought delivering this combo in the comments earlier today, I was wondering when Auspex might drop this video. I wasn't expecting it to be the same day! 😂 Great breakdown!
sry for dumb question but why do i need the gladius for this combo
@TheSheep866 You need the Fire Discipline enhancement, Devastator Doctrine detachment ability, and the Storm of Fire stratagem, all part of the Gladius Task force
@@crazyshak4827 thx
Aggressors caught my eye when I was first researching addons to Leviathan. Im brand new to Warhammer. I love that the models I really like for Space Marines are really good, and im glad I can attach another model I like, Calgar, as a leader
The irony of this video coming out and I was debating earlier this week about picking up Aggressors. I’ll take this as a sign.
I do this using a Primaris Lieutent with Bolter Discipline + Primaris Apothecary + 10 Hellblasters. Made my brother very annoyed when I did a good amount of Sustained Hit and Lethal Hit Supercharged shots but killed two of my guys with hazardous, then managed to roll 2 more shots with “For the Chapter!”, then rez’d one of them on my next turn. If the Biolgis comes out as standalone I’ll probably get him since I also use a good amount of Gravis dudes and love Aggressors.
Literally buying aggressors to run with the biologis and Calgar lmao with bolster discipline nasty combo
My core is Tor Garadon and 6 Aggressors in a Redeemer with a 10 man Heavy Intercessor Squad with the Bolter Discipline Apothecary leading them.
A true man of culture!
I’ve been running my biologus with bolster discipline and heavy intersessors with one heavy bolter. This has been a solid combo as well I’m my experience as it makes the heavy bolt rifles chew through all chaff and allows them more threat potential in melee if charged while holding a point
Very cool combo, I’ll probably wait for the codex before I invest but i would totally be down to make a squad like this
I came across this combo while playing around with the app on release. Great boost to my list building ego.
Apothecary + Heavy intercessors are a solid combo too.
They are good but nowhere near as effective as the Aggressor one.
They're a better combo with bolter discipline because they cab always reliably be at range with 30" guns and because they're tough, they're harder to shift meaning you'll keep model count high
+1 Strength and AP on their guns too
@@william9557 Until someone deepstrikes or moves in on them and they have no melee to rely upon realistically.
You can use the Indomitor Killteam which switches a small amount of volume and twin linked for some higher str, higher ap, longer range and extra damage...costs 70 more points
5 hvy intercessors- 2 w/hvy bolters & 3 hvy rifles which start with assault and Heavy
2 inceptors now with assault, pistol, twin linked, sustained hits and lethal hits plasma guns
1 eradicator w/ multi melta sustained & lethal hits
2 aggressors with bolterstorm gauntlets and frags
The killteam also has +1 to hit after losing 1 man and a further +1 to wound when they're below half str
Happy to hear people playing aggressors i like these guys a lot
Primaris Aggressors are bar-none my favorite unit in Warhammer. They were the first box I ever bought, just because I liked the way they looked. I just adore how brutal and tanky and imposing they are the and gravis armor is my favorite armor style.
I’m still slowly assembling my army but I am so, so happy to hear they play well and hit every bit as hard as I’d hoped they would.
Wow... I guess i was ahead of the curve on this one. I have two squads of Aggressors + Biologis.
I mean... I did cillect a gravis army. Getting all the proper shoulder pads was expensive.
I like adding Calgar for the advance/ fallback shoot and charge.
Man I’ve been thinking about buying 6 aggressors to go with biologis and now everyone’s gonna be doing it thanks.
Great combo but you missed one thing: giving the Gravis Captain The Honor Vehement for just 15 points makes his already strong melee really incredible. His 5 power fist attacks go to 7 in the assault phase and S10 while his extra attacks get +2S as well (they don't benefit from the 2 extra swings sadly) so the relic blade is S7, relic chainsword S6 and the relic fist S10. Then you can swap his free stratagem for Honor the Chapter, gaining lance if you can charge and -1AP. His entire unit now hits at AP-3 as well as anything he swings besides the chainsword which is AP-2.
The new enhancement for the close ranged detachment gives melee +3str so this will also be a great item even if it's missing out on the extra attacks
But amor vehement is a great item!
@@william9557 It does but I'm not certain it's better than The Honor Vehement. Yes your power fist attacks are S11 instead of 10 and your relic blade 8 instead of 7, but you only get 7 attacks instead of 9. Probably situational.
Another combo I’ve been enjoying is pairing the Deathwing Strikemaster with Bolter Discipline to a squad of Deathwing Terminators. I’ve thrown a Belial with them as well and it’s very satisfying watching them delete units.
Deepstrike gets them into rapid fire range too! 4 shots each with all the storms bolters, and then you could have 4 krak shots at strength 9 or 4d6 +blast strength 4 with taking two cyclones on a ten man unit. Then you charge.
I've been using a similar combo with my Dark Angels. A full 10-man Deathwing Command Squad with 2 Assault Cannons led by a Deathwing Strikemaster with Bolter Discipline. Crit Fishing with Oath of Moment can lead to absolute bonkers levels of damage with this combo.
I love throwing the apothecary in with my eradicators as well.
I would do that if they weren't already maxed in a repulsor for transport
I'm running the same combo but with a unit of 10 Heavy Intercessors.
I do miss out on a few shots but I get 30" of range, +1 Strength and AP, and if I remain stationary I hit on 2+ :)
And a 2+ save against damage 1 weapons :)
@@Bravadous True dat :D
I'm a fan of 10 man bricks of Heavy Intercessors- they can function in a similar way with the proper support
same! i love gravis armors ^^
Same! I play this in IF’s.
With the Apothecary Biologus - it’s a tasty unit.
Tbh I’d say the apothecary biologis fits better with eradicators. The damage output is huge and nothing is wasted as reroll wounds is still there.
I had a friend run the stat numbers on 6 eradz vs 5eradz + biologis (reason for is able to have unit in a repulsor). Says that one less erad to sub the bio reduces average wounds by 0.5, and says he feels it's not worth it.
And I'm like anti-armour lethal hits!!!
I would be interested also in the maths for the 'CyclicCrisis' squad under the effect of kauyon and properly buffed. And also other shooty combos for other races (like necrons)
Great video.
It would be interesting to compare this with a trio of Lokhust Heavy Destroyers with exterminator and a lord.
Feels like the have similar volume of fire (hits) but differ slightly on wounds and AP (the destroyers reroll wounds of 1 vs infantry and have a strat for full wound rerolls)
Keep up the good work
Ive been playing this combo since the leviathan box came out and its amazing it also work quite good on eradicator
10x Hellblasters with an Apothecary + Bolter Displine is an absolutely devastating combo
Incroyable.
Intresting to compare this combo output with 10 Sternguard + lieutenant.
GW after 2 monts: "aggresors will cost 170pts for 3 and max squad size is 3"...
I saw this when the index came out aswell :D Also IF you decide to run a Ventris/Ventris-proxy you can deepstrike that blob of hurt anywhere on the board and get awesome firepower followed by a 9inch charge if you are lucky for maximum damage :D
Best option to field them is probably deep strike with Uriel IMO. It does the job cheap. On foot doesnt work, tried that.. they just die before they get in range even with Calgar. Land Raider works, but I would prefer to use Bladeguard veterans with that.
I pretty much do this same thing but with a brick of deathwing command squad terminators with a strikemaster and sometimes a termi captain. At normal range the stormbolters get 22 shots with lethals and exploding 6's but at 12" it becomes 44 shots of just storm bolters with lethal plus the missile launchers, and if in devastator doctrine 5+6 explodes with lethal and they can follow up with a charge that they can re-roll thanks to the captain. Heavy investment in terms of points and was looking at this videos combo as well since the investment is much lower with higher toughness units similar firepower and built in twin-linked with strong melee potential.
Its kinda weird that Iron Father Feirros is not at least keyworded as Captain... or a chapter master? Like i get it thats not how the Iron Hands work but like... i feel like that should have been seen coming.
That is weird. The space wolf characters still get captain/chapter master keywords despite having different titles
Haven't watched the video yet, but i'm sure it's great. Keep up the good work!
…. I’m REALLY regretting the spur-of-the-moment decision to go flamestorm instead of boltstorm….
It'll swing back your way eventually
Pretty sure there's a strat for flamethrower lads too, no fear
Sweats in blue salamander 😂
This is how I've been running my terminators. 10 man squad with 2 cyclone missile launchers. Plus a Deathwing Strikemaster with Bolter Discipline.
Ingenious and innovative. At least it was about a month ago when Poland won World championship using this combo ;)
That moment the combo you've been using gets popular
Now gw will pay attention and nerf tfo of it. No fun allowed
This unit can kill a knight, I used mine to take out a Caladius Tank , thats a T10 14W tank with 5 + invun. my opponent wished he paid for the Owerwatch. I play Blood angels so making them appear were i need them the most is great fun! Its good to have a unit that can deal with something scarry. it will help my winrate.
This kind of combo can also work with a deathwing strikemaster and deathwing command squad. In fact DA have the only access to a terminator lieutenant variant. So about 36-40 storm bolter shots with sustaind and lethals on 5s, with an apothecary in the squad to rez a dude a turn and fairly competent power fist profile with terminator saves and invulns. With a captain in terminator armor in addition theu get free strat as well has reroll charges. It is more pts though but its a massive block thats almost immovable. Plus the banner in the command squad makes them oc 2 and the champion gives them +1 to charge as well as 1 cp heroi intervention.
So they changed old bolter discipline, hadnt seen that. Much preferred the simpler definition that it made sm rapid fire bolt weapons at full range if they stood still, or were a vehicle. Always made me imagine my dudes as that scene in Astartes where the marines lock their bolters against that railing and just let rip
Azrael is another good pick for this. Sustained hits and a 4 up invulnerable for the squad to boost tankyness even higher.
Slap a cap in that combo and have him use storm of fire after the nerf and he will help out post nerf
I use a similar combo in my list, but a primaris apothecary with bolter discipline tacked onto a 10 man squad of hellblasters since they're stronger than any bolter. Overcharge every turn, if hazardous takes any out I get a model back at the start of every turn, and the sustained hits makes it more than worth it.
Libby dread goes 'YEEEEET!'
Class, been saying for ages this looked like a killer combo so nice to see it get covered.
My friend used this "gouda cheese combo" as I called it in my first and only game of tenth. He had witchseeker bolts as well since he plays black templars. A squad of 3 wiped out commander farsight just using mortals.
Was he aware that the witchseeker bolts only give devastating wounds to the apothecary, not the entire unit?
I've been running this combo since 10th Started. It's been a menace in the local meta, with really only pre-nerf GSC being able to fight against it effectively.
Wish this worked with flamestorm 😢
I have been playing this combo, and love using the Land Raider Redeemer with it. The Redeemer is a great overwatch platform, and good on it's own. There are big weaknesses to the squad however. It's only real tankiness is toughness 6, anything that can get around that with a modicum of AP and the unit starts to die off quickly.
I’ve been using this since the Leviathian drop. You can also use adaptive strategy to keep them in Dev Doctrine every turn and Storm of fire to give them ap -2 if they are shooting at the closest target, plus ignore cover.
Not expecting it to carry into the codex though so I’m surprised it’s just coming up now.
You really need to do these vids as a podcast as well!
I've been running this since my first match of 10th, and it's pretty damn good
I've been running this since the start of 10th with my Imperial Fists and it has worked well.
Gravis armor is, to me, the kind of bulky and heavy looking armor that space marines *should* use. I prefer it to everything, and the Aggressor Doom Brick makes me very happy. 🎉
I am interested to see how this combo compares to the Anvil Siege Force potential damage combo of keeping a unit stationary, using the ignore cover enhancement and exploding 5's stratagem when stationary. Obviously being able to advance and do this is very strong, but Anvil allows hitting on 2's too. I think that may be stronger with Eradicators since they get +1 to hit and +1 to wound when stationary with all the perks...
Iirc +1s to hit/wound don't stack so the eradicators +1s would make the anvil redundant
@@venlocity2 huh? No the eradicators having heavy gives them the additional +1 to wound as they're already heavy, so hitting on 2's with the non MM and wounding pretty much everything on 4's with re-rolls into vehicles and monsters
@@guysolomon7904 right, eradicator rules are rerolls my bad
could you do a Video on Centurion Devastators ? With the Oath nerfs incoming and their point deduction. Their Twin linked las-cannons will be good overall anti-tank weapons with wounds rerolls ! Would love to see your opinion on this !
Wait for the flamestorm detachment.
Assault keyword lets them overcome movement issues via advance and shoot.
+1s within 12 boosts many centurion weapons significantly.
S5 Centurion bolters and flamers better vs t4/5 infantry or t8/9 models in a pinch, s10 melta and rockets better vs t9/10 vehicles and t5 bikes/inf), whilst grav cannons also better vs t6/7 heavy inf or t12 monsters.
Assuming they stick to current points values, they should be very good.
pretty much my take, it feels like they are decently well suited for the new Space marines. Not top tier, but they could definitely see some play imo@@_SpiritDan_
First thing I picked up when the index dropped was 6 bolt aggressors + biologis in a land raider crusader to smash objectives
Faced this in a tournament at the weekend and can confirm the damage output is egregious.
This was the first thing I did with the Index.
For the bolter discipline enhancement section how did he calculate 39 shots? From what I understand it’s 3 shots per model in a squad of 6 that’s 18 shots and even if you rolled hot with sustained hits 1 and double that it’s only 36? I feel like I’m missing something can someone please explain?
grenade launcher, that's an average of am extra 3.5 shots per model without sustained.
@@catalyst772 oh I see now thank you for explaining
Had this used on me killed a warhound titan in one turn.
8 Gravis models can fit in a Storm Wolf too. Can't disembark and charge though.
*GW sees something decent for marines* “nerf that!! Eldar might have a hard time”
best part about this combo, is that it almost doesn't care about the oaths nerf. So prepare for aggressors to be nerfed soon xD
I like the Calgar and Ventris combo personally like it's super expensive on points but a unit that can advance shoot and charge being deep struck in and being able to use rapid ingress to really hid them away from potential shooting or charges then just advancing out from the cover and unloading all those lethal and sustained hits before charging into melee just seams so devastating I really do have to try it out in a game before it gets balanced out of the rules
I really hope it doesn't get taken out of the rules, that's over 500 points for 1 unit :/ that should be fair. 200 for the 6 Aggressors, 80 for Biologis with Discipline, 185 for Calgar, 75 I think for Uriel... plus Uriel needs guards
You cant join 2 captains to the same unit. So the Combo of Uriel ventris + calgar never worked.
As per standart rules you can only join 1 character to a unit and then there are exeptions written on datasheets like the apothecary / lieutenent to speciffically allow some combination.
But both calgar and ventris dont have any such rules.
@@DJRaffa1000 you don't need to attach both. Calgar joins the aggressors with the Biologis which can join a unit with a captain or chapter master already in it and Ventris gives the deep strike ability to the unit as it doesn't have to be given to his unit just any infantry unit and Ventris can then be given his own unit to do whatever you want with
@@xlightingedgex Ohh so he can just freely give you deep strike ?
Damn thats awesome, thanks for letting me know
@@DJRaffa1000 yeah he can give it to any one infantry unit in your army at the start of the game which makes it super flexible in loads of different lists
I do this comvo with Deathwing Command Squad + D. Strikemaster. Much more expensive but good lord the fire-power....
Biologis + a brick of any decent AP seems great in general
Gwavis
UwU
Been running the combo for some time. It’s definitely nice.
You can say the same for 10x Terminators with 2x cyclone launchers + Captain + Bolter discipline... and also 10x Hellblaster + Lieutenant + Bolter discipline..
The incursor buff works in both Shooting and Melee, not as great for shooting but it means that your hitting on 3+ in melee which should help a nice amount even if you have re rolls.
The ability description for the incursors says until the end of the phase - I.e the shooting phase, so i don't think this is true...
We knew this ;). It's pretty much the only use for the biologis
Im excited to grab a second lirlbrarian dread for my BA army this is a great unit to target to just teleport it in their face
Time to build that Biologis then!
For some reason i am getting completely other numbers on T5/SV2+/4+Invul
- Auto Bolt Storm: 6 damage
- Fragstorm Grenade Launcher: 9 damage vs 5 Terminators
- Power Fist: 8 damage
With all buffs and Oath, so total 14-17 wounds, that's like 4-5 terminators after shooting and charging.
On other hand we have Chaplain on Bike + 6xBike Squad (2x Plasma Gun)
Sustain 1, Devastating, +1 Wound Roll in Melee
That will be 13-15 damage on 5 Terminators, easier to deliver that damage in my opinion due to high mobility and Devastator Doctrine. 265 points vs 280 points. Less points, more movement (12"/18").
Also we have Chaplain on Bike + Outriders
Sustain 1, Devastating, +1 Wound Roll in Melee
That will be 16 damage on 5 Terminators, for 315 points, just because of Bike Squad gone or will be gone soon. Is it worth 35 points more for 12"/16" move/advance ? I would say yes.
Finally going to get a chance to bring out my aggressors!
You've had every chance to already. You just chose not to.
I still prefer Sternguard with a librarian...You don't get lethal hits, but instead you get devestating wounds and a 4+ invuln. preferable imo. And IK what you're all thinking: "here it comes..." and you're right, I'm gonna say Deathwatch do it better with special ammo and army wide sus. hits. But DW aside, I put my apothecaries in eradicator squads. Re-rolls to hit, wound and damage vs vehicles and monsters + all this fun stuff. Aggressors are fine, but there are better options...Terminators and centurion Devestators come to mind.
You know what this is good against? The Avatar of Khaine - ask me how I found that one out
welcome to 2023 auspex jajajajaja
What makes them especially spicy is using Uriel Ventris for free deep strike
Ah it's good to see they are no longer passive aggressors
I'm about to add an Apothecary biologis and an indomitor kill team to my comp deathwatch
I’ve been using the Apothecary Biologus to lead my 6 Aggressors since 10e started, with and without Bolter Discipline (depending on points). Sometimes I use my Gravis Captain instead, and I’ve experimented with both the Gravis Captain and Biologus with 6 Aggressors.
I don’t understand why AT keeps saying that the Biologus can LEAD a Desolation Squad. The Desolation Squad isn’t listed under the Biologus’ Leader units, and Desolators don’t have Gravis armour.
Unless there’s a special rule that I’m not aware of, the Apothecary Biologus cannot be the leader of a Desolation Squad.
AT might be confusing the Biologus with the Primaris Apothecary, which CAN lead a Desolation Squad.
He was just saying the desolation squad is where people were previously putting the bolter discipline enhancement, agnostic of the actual character
Bolter discipline would be good on eradicators too. Sustained hits is pretty good on melta shots, especially when you are only looking for 5s and can reroll everything.
I’ve been using aggressors since they released, I’m gonna enjoy this time before they’re nerfed again
Used this end of last week in a casual game. Even after being reduced to 4 aggressors, was still capable of wiping a double necron warrior block in a single phase on its own. Felt a bit bad after.
Also + 1ap extra from one of the primaris speeders if needed
Yes yes
Say it to 10 Lich guards with full buf.
I know this is strong but its fair and balanced, this should NOT get a nerf.
Finally a use for my aggressors from BA combat patrol....
I just Painted up this combo + a Captain as well. But I'll be using them with my Black Templars so I won't get the full silly combo.
As my Agressors are lightning rods this combo would probably never work in my matches. I always use them as a very efficient 100 ish point distraction as they attract a lot of fire.
Then Joined with a gravis captain they always pose a threat but are never too expensive and important to have it hurt when someone bears all firepower on them.
I went against this at RMO. I epic challenged with a broodlord.
I've been tempted to pair the biologist with eradicators. I play my m8 and he has necron and guard so I need high strength attacks to kill his chunky units
The lieutenant/doc & bolter discipline combo is obviously very powerful but you're limited to one unit being upgraded this way - aggressors are a good choice for the upgrade but so are other options like 10 hellblasters and a lieutenant - they'd be about 100 points more, but would probably put out a lot more damage against elites and vehicles, with better range too.
Thinking specifically of doc gravis, is he better with 6 aggressors, 6 eradicators, or 10 heavy intercessors? His buff is great on all of them and each of those options has similar points costs - I haven't looked into the mathhammer for how much he increases their damage against different targets, but it's clearly going to be significant.
Thinking of Marneus Calgar - it seems excessive to stack him with a bolter discipline gravis doc in the same unit of aggressors - that's nearly 500 points in 1 unit. The aggressors & doc unit is a strong enough threat on it's own IMO, and Marneus would be much more useful to create a second threatening unit, personally I'd use him with infernus marines - upgraded doc and aggressors (280), plus infernus squad and Calgar (355) is how I'd do it.
I prefer use bolter discipline with a primaris lieutenient when leader a 10 plasma marines, 20 hits, i gain sustained and letal, a total devastation attack againts any enemy
I use this as a core with Calgar... It's very good combo