Hans Niemann's $100 Million* Suit Against Magnus Carlsen ft. GothamChess
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 14 ноя 2022
- ⚖️ Do you need a great lawyer? I can help! legaleagle.link/eagleteam ⚖️
Did he pull this out of his butt? 💡Go to legaleagle.link/brilliant and be one of the first 200 people to sign up and get 20% off your subscription with Brilliant.org!
Thanks for the assist from @GothamChess !
Welcome back to LegalEagle. The most avian legal analysis on the internets.
🚀 Watch my next video early & ad-free on Nebula! legaleagle.link/watchnebula
👔 Suits by Indochino! legaleagle.link/indochino
GOT A VIDEO IDEA? TELL ME!
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
Send me an email: devin@legaleagle.show
MY COURSES
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
Interested in LAW SCHOOL? Get my guide to law school! legaleagle.link/lawguide
Need help with COPYRIGHT? I built a course just for you! legaleagle.link/copyrightcourse
SOCIAL MEDIA & DISCUSSIONS
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
Twitter: legaleagle.link/twitter
Facebook: legaleagle.link/facebook
Tik Tok: legaleagle.link/tiktok
Instagram: legaleagle.link/instagram
Reddit: legaleagle.link/reddit
Podcast: legaleagle.link/podcast
OnlyFans legaleagle.link/onlyfans
Patreon legaleagle.link/patreon
BUSINESS INQUIRIES
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
Please email my agent & manager at legaleagle@standard.tv
LEGAL-ISH DISCLAIMER
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
Sorry, occupational hazard: This is not legal advice, nor can I give you legal advice. I AM NOT YOUR LAWYER. Sorry! Everything here is for informational purposes only and not for the purpose of providing legal advice. You should contact your attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem. Nothing here should be construed to form an attorney-client relationship. Also, some of the links in this post may be affiliate links, meaning, at no cost to you, I will earn a small commission if you click through and make a purchase. But if you click, it really helps me make more of these videos! All non-licensed clips used for fair use commentary, criticism, and educational purposes. See Hosseinzadeh v. Klein, 276 F.Supp.3d 34 (S.D.N.Y. 2017); Equals Three, LLC v. Jukin Media, Inc., 139 F. Supp. 3d 1094 (C.D. Cal. 2015).
Special thanks:
Stock video and imagery provided by Getty Images and AP Archives
Music provided by Epidemic Sound
Short links by pixelme.me (pxle.me/eagle)
Maps provided by MapTiler/Geolayers
⚖ Cheater or champion?
💡Learn interactively with Brilliant! legaleagle.link/brilliant
So happy you're covering this. I've been following this attentively for well over a month.
Is it legal to tell voters to put their ballots in a box because they couldn't count at that time but if they change their minds after putting their ballots in the box they can't Leave the premises with their ballots
It is Magnus Carlsen not Carlson. He's Norwegian.
Don't need to play chess to have things up my a
Hello, love the videos. Was wondering if you could do a video on the 3M lawsuit for the earplugs that didn't work for military members. Would have a good video for veterans day haha.
Thanks for having me on, sir!
Now you have to guess the ELO rating of Legal Eagle.
So Levy,Just curious. How did you come up with the name Gotham Chess? Are you a big fan of Batman? 🤔
Levy "Largest Chess Channel" Rozman, good for you dude, love your content! I thought for sure Hikaru had the larger channel. *Had to edit my comment because apparently people think I was hating on Levy for not realizing he truly did have the largest channel, get a life people. You're looking too deep into things.
@@GoblinBlaster3000 It was Antonio (Agadmator) for a while but Gotham overtook him.
Legal Eagle needs a chess lesson to fully understand the case!
1:30 to be clear magnus was not on a 53 game win streak, he was on a 53 game streak of no losses. about half of top level chess games end in a draw so a 53 game winstreak is completely unheard of.
Yeah that seems exponentially harder. I appreciate this information
Bobby Fischer did have a 20 game win streak, which was absolutely legendary haha
@@nickgarcia6572 and HE was treated as a legend. A 53 is an even more mindnumbingly difficult number to think about.
@@VekcrazahBut it wasn’t 53 wins. Reading comprehension.
@@patstaysuckafreeboss8006 He wasn't claiming it was. Reading comprehension.
I know the anal bead is just a reddit rumor, but imagine playing chess against the top ranked player in the world and just letting out a moan 💀💀💀💀💀
LMAO
"Ahh Daddy Stawp"
ahem ahem ummm let me just..move... queen to g5
The software breaks and just keeps on repeating the last move received.
@@HRRRRRDRRRRR *accidentally cums*
"wait what"
fumo
Apparently this suit was quietly dismissed in late June 2023. A federal judge in Missouri dismissed the antitrust claims with prejudice and the slander/libel claims without.
thanks for the update
"Adult entertainment device put in an adult entertainment location"
The fact that you managed to say that with a straight face is impressive.
I hope there's an outtake reel for that one, because I do not believe Devin got it right on the first take.
@@oriolgonzalez9328 Release the outtakes, Devin!
This is gold. I am stealing this treasure 😂
He is a Lawyer, he has probably had to say equally outrageous stuff before in court with a straight face.
I feel like he was in a bad mood during the filming of this video
Never thought I’d see a Gotham and Legal Eagle collab.
But then again, never thought I would hear the words anal beads and chess next to each other
Anal beads and chess are like peanut butter and jelly, or apple pie and baseball.
Oh man, those 12 seconds poor insecure Levy was featured on this clip were soooo pants watering
Anal beads make the long classical games more enjoyable
Excellent point!
These are strange times.
Levy will bring Legal Eagle into RUclips relevance.
“Yes I cheated but only when it didn’t matter” is totally believable.
Funny thing is, thats counterintuitive. You'd usually not cheat when it doesnt matter so you can get better but end up cheating when it matters so you win.
@@slendydie1267 no
@@pds4 yes.
@@DanielFerreira-ez8qd no
@@pds4 have you ever trained and competed in anything?😂
Niemann's lawsuit feels more like a damage control tactic/PR move than a serious attempt to win a case (which certainly would be for far less than $100 million). I have no background in law, but the arguments presented her lead me to believe this case is not terribly strong.
Have to agree, at most Hikaru might cop a minor penalty. I'm not very proficient in law either, especially in the USA, but here in Australia at least, I know Magnus couldn't be held liable for anything he said as "defamatory" as not only has he said he genuinely believes Hans cheated, but there's evidence to support this concern. Magnus played it very well in not actually defaming him, so I'm. unsure what ground Hans has to stand on
yes, a lawsuit seeking to stop yourself being damaged sounds like a pretty good example of damage control. great job spotting that one.
a professional chess player at that level can earn much more then 100 million, magnus and co cheated him out of a career. he will win, and may be awarded more.
@@DellikkilleD But they didn't, he cheated himself out of a career, literally. His cocky behaviour and words are what got him into this mess and exposed him as a bigger cheater than he had admitted. Legally, Magnus and co have done little if anything wrong
@@ezekielroberts8161 thats for the courts to decide.😂
"An adult entertainment device put in an adult entertainment location" is an amazing sentence
The following sentence about international grandmaster Ben Wa was even better.
And the follow up 'Silver Bullet' comment was hilarious.
How do Adults enterain themselves? I play videogames and read books
@@alexnunez689 that's what I do.
I completely missed the meaning of those words first time I heard it.
"He certainly pulled that one out of his ass." Good one I laughed so hard.
Also, "whether he's going to need a Silver Bullet". The jokes write themselves here.
@@howlingwolf317 The jokes speak for themselves, one could say.
I was surprised there was room in there.
I see what he did there. 😂
fun fact: Myke Boyd actually managed to replicate the described device and found that it is very difficult to detect with a metal detector even and best of all it didn't even need to do morse code for him to win using it
Now that's taking one for the team
Kind of inconsequential, Mike acknowledged that he bought the cheapest one. Even hans the underdog here is a multimillionaire, I doubt grandmaster tournaments are using cheap ones
It should be clarified that @@monhi64 means the cheapest metal detector, not cheapest butt plug
@@richardmillhousenixon A Norwegian TV-channel brought half a dozen transmitters through security at a world championship (the FIDE 960 Championship in Reykjavik) and the metal detectors only caught half of the devices. Those detectors were much higher grade than those used at Sinquefield. It would have been trivial to cheat there.
It doesn't even need to be indie
Regardless of whether or not he cheated against Magnus, how sus he was when interviewed after the win, and the hilariously silly wording of the lawsuit means his reputation is pretty ruined.
Additional spice, Fabiano Caruana on his podcast mentioned that a lot of the other super GMs were privately suspicious of Hans even before Magnus’ insinuation.
@gray sounds like a grey area ;)
@gray Erm ... he's admitted cheating ...
@gray it really doesnt help your reputation when you have been banned twice from the worlds most popular chess website
Maybe Niemman did used toys to relax during the match but didn't actually get help. And Magnus saw weird stuff happening and made a bad call.
@@lupohutchington269 😂😂😂
Kudos to your writer for slipping in those puns...and an additional commendation on your straight-faced delivery
Doesn't he write the vids himself
@@Anonymous-ot6hi he is a lawyer not a full time youtuber so no I feel like he has a writer, or maybe he a genius idk
@@sendhelp4314 clerks
The "Ben Wa" at the beginning really got me. 😂
@@ShadowfaxSTP that joke took balls
This is the problem when people cheat.. you lose trust and credibility, and that's hard to recover. And it doesn't exactly help when you admit to cheating a few times and say those were the only times, but then people discover that is not the case...
Literally “the boy who cried wolf”
"I've always cheated before, but not this time!! I swear!"
The expected credibility and virtue of a 16 year old vs. an adult are vastly different, and the law itself reflects this because it's so clearly apparent. Niemann cheating as a 16 year old teenager, in no means, makes salty accusations of him cheating as an adult valid. The burden of proof is on the one making the accusation. The evidence is rather lacking in this context. That is to say, there is no hard evidence at all. Just statistical analysis which aren't even beyond a reasonable doubt. Niemann has proven to be not only good at chess, but to be rapidly improving. His performance in certain periods of time showing growth at a curve above his peers is hardly evidence at all of if he cheated. The precedent that it would be, would essentially paint any and all prodigies as cheaters if one were to make the accusation against them. Unless the odds of Niemann's growth are in the range of multiple billions to one, which they are not, it isn't evidence at all in this context.
@@valkyrieregalia It doesn't matter, nobody is accusing him, rather everyone is suspecting him with beyond reasonable doubt.
@@UnknownString88 If by beyond reasonable, you mean, that it's beyond reason, sure. There is nothing solid at all against him. Just memers and butt hurt Carlsen fan boys. He's right to sue, and I hope justice is done.
LegalEagle, Gotham, Hikaru, and Lex all in one video is the collab we didn’t know we all needed.
Shame we didn’t get to see stand-up maths
Um you could leave Lex out. Dude is a borderline zombie compared to the rest of the people you referenced.
@@HiFiAwardTour who cares, what he talks about is still very interesting
@@HiFiAwardTour Really? He once said that half the people he meets recognize him from Joe Rogan stuff and half from his AI/ML research creds. Has something happened?
@@taylorsmurphy Magnus Carlson was Lex's guest on his podcast before the Sinquefield Cup, and Hikuru afterwards. He's no chess genius, but the conversations were interesting.
Another thing to consider: Carlsen says he will not participate in any chess tours that also include players with a history of cheating. It’s important because a lot of these tourneys are invitation based.
In other words, a organizers for chess tournaments now have to consider if inviting Neimann would be worth losing Carlsen. Which will always be no because they lose views.
I think this is the major reason Neimann filed the lawsuit. It is to force Carlsen to come to the table and not force organizers to chose between him and Neimann.
If Carlsen indeed said that and makes good on that threat, it would provide substance to the case so I would not advise Carlsen doing such an inadvisable thing.
Carlsen would have to prove the accusation in his game with Niemann to be immune from a suit.
Organizers would make their own decisions what is best for them
But I tend to believe the suit was precisely to warn the chess community that if no rules or laws have been proven to be broken, then they likely have no legal right to persecute players even if they have admitted to past misbehavior unrelated to the specific event in question.
@@tonysu8860 Carlsen never said Niemann cheated in the St. Louis game. Simply that his play and mannerisms were unusual. Carlson said he would not, in the future play with a known cheater and Hans is a known, admitted cheater.
Regardless of whether Niemann actually cheated in either of these games is irrelevant to Carlsen's stance. He says that he refuses to play against people with a history of cheating and, quite simply, Niemann has a history of cheating.
Yeah, but he never said anything of the sort before losing those games. Hell, he even played a few friendly matches with Niemann in the pre tournament and they were both very chill.
This sudden change of stance can only be explained by his belief that Niemann cheated.
@@saulofontoura He mentioned beforehand he didn't want to play with Hans before the loss. He was thinking about dropping out.
I saw this lawsuit and honestly if they have to prove that Hikaru and Magnus collaborated or agreed on doing ANYTHING together, they're never going to be able to prove it lmao
Bongcloud opening aside... which, to be honest, I would love to hear come from the words of a lawyer arguing in Federal Court.
These guys talk and text all the time. It’s like a little club.
@@TakopathTraveler the double bongcloud game was actually a signal to each other to go after Hans
@@mburg33 they have business relationships but Hikaru and Magnus are not actually employees. More like contractors
I didnt understand this statement until I watched it. Yeah. Thats a pretty tall tail than just to say they knew they were lying.
Nice video. Minor quibble @ 1:33: Carlsen's 53 game streak that was broken was "unbeaten" not "winning". He had many draws during the streak.
Correct, do not confuse Magnus Carlsen with Anish Giri who does count draws as wins
@@SuperJuiceman11 Anish counts a draw as a win????? He must get a lot of draws then
@@hristiqndimitrov5249 yeah he’s known for drawing they call him drawnish Giri
Oh i basically wrote the same comment before seeing this one
the Anish draw thing is a meme that got out of hand. He has a very normal W/D/L ratio for a high level competitive player, and usually goes for wins in fairly entertaining ways. The joke started because he had a tournament with 12 draws once (maybe a slightly different number, memory is hazy), and kinda kept going even though he is about as aggressive in his playstyle as the other top GMs. Even though since then, other players have beaten his draw streak
I think technically it was a 53 game UNDEFEATED streak. Many of those were ties as those are common at the highest levels of play in chess.
I LOVE how, in this context, "it's just a reddit rumor" means "they've lost control over an r/AnarchyChess meme". Man, I LOVE that subreddit.
When Carlsen, in his statement, made a point about Nieman beating him "as black", the player playing as white goes first, while everything is equal materially in chess, this small advantage leads to white winning professional matches at around a 52-56% rate. Carlsen not just lost to the lowest seeded player in the tourney, Carlsen lost while in an advantageous state. Just in case anyone was wondering why he made a point to say that :)
Carlsen*
LOL - Magnus played badly, lost and got upset. He's always been a bad loser...
@@davidlloyd1526 Not at all. He has lost to plenty of people in his career and never accused them of cheating. Whatever his reasons are, they're not unjustified
@@davidlloyd1526 Two or more things can be true at once. Magnus isn't invincible, played some suboptimal moves, and is not great with losses - to put it kindly. The guy who admitted to lots of prior cheating immediately turned into a pumpkin once the 15 minute delay was added. He also couldn't or wouldn't explain positions sensibly, and/or just handwaved them with "oh the chess speaks for itself". Ok, sure, the move the Stockfish 14 finds at depth 27+ is obvious...
@@shaunmcisaac782 You mean Nieman pumpkin after delay? He played us champs and some other tourney and has a 2700 avg performance rating after his game vs carlsen, if 2700 perf rating is pumpkin then ok
In addition, Hikaru Nakamura brought up a very important point regarding the psychological effect from cheating. When you play against a known cheater, simply suspecting them of cheating against you, your play and strategy is negatively affected.
Or when you are scared uou made a mistake too. But it's easier for the ego to tell yourself it was because you suspect the guy is cheating
@@Lrripper And why would Magnus be "scared" of Hans? Only if he were cheating, obviously. :)
@KnightSynergy But... what? We're indifferent, somehow, to the psychological effect of an unsubstantiated _accusation of cheating?_ The bias in this case throughout these comments is astounding.
@@johnstrawb3521 It's not unsubstantiated. It is well documented that Niemann IS a cheater. the only question is whether he cheated in that specific game.
@@Damogen yes but just because someone cheated before that doesn't mean they cheated then. Plus they haven't provided any actually proof he cheated. Or how he cheated if he did. They don't have a smoking gun yet are attempting to punish him and ruin his career for it.
I mean, if your defense is “I only cheated when there weren’t any stakes” it’s hard for me to believe you wouldn’t be inclined cheat when there are.
He was also 16 at the time, are we really expecting a 16 year old to have perfect behavior in online chess?
@@calinbarbu2438 lmao right now he is 19 not much of a difference
@@calinbarbu2438 and the last time he cheated is at least at 17 years old
@@calinbarbu2438Just goes to show how dumb he is, why admit to cheating in the first place.
@@user-bu1vc3bl1cokay and? Your telling me you never tip toed the rules of a game when you were a kid?
Also it’s interesting these accusations come from a company/service in bed with Carlson
The simple fact that Niemann is highly likely to be considered a public figure makes this lawsuit nearly impossible for him to win. Even if Magnus, Hikaru, and Danny explicitly said that he cheated outright in the specific game against Magnus and said so multiple times, unless they got extremely specific and said he cheated in a provably incorrect way, this would be likely be ruled as just an expression of opinion since Niemann can't prove he didn't cheat and there is a LOT of circumstantial evidence that goes against him.
@@jimjohnson5291 oh yes he does! His lawsuit was defamation against Magnus, Hikaru, and Danny for claiming he cheated. Aint no WAY he's doing that given he literally confessed to cheating in the past
@@jimjohnson5291 No, he needs to prove something much harder. He needs to prove that all the people that accused him lied knowingly and not just by ignorance and with malice, meaning intend to do harm to him, his reputation, his business, etc. Which is incredibly hard to do. You can not be sued, or at least found guilty, just for talking out your ass once or twice. If you have reason to believe what you are saying, then it's just an opinion. And they have reasons. He might not have done it, but people have reasons to doubt him. The more critical one, that he's admited to cheating in the past, online. So suspicion on current results is warranted.
The case is a defamation suit. Not a being wrong suit. He's demanding that all the people that accused him of cheating pay him *because they acted with malice with the intent of hurting his reputation and his ability to participate in chess events*. Therefore, he needs to prove that's what happened. Not only does he need to prove he didn't cheat (in order to win in court), he needs to prove that ain't no way anybody with the knowledge that this GMs have would even consider he was truly cheating. Either that, or prove that they made the claims with said malice, for example because they planed it together through texts, kinda what happened to Alex Jones. It wasn't just that he said terrible things about the parents of dead children, but also that in his phones there were evidence that indicated he was doing it for monetary gain and that he didn't care if he was right or not.
I have the hunch that if you take Magnus' phone right now you will not find any messages that might indicate he was in any conspiracy of any kind alongside Hikari. In a more serious note, I also doubt that he wanted to destroy Niemann just because he was dethroning him.
@Selven Reinen Dude, you know nothing about defamation law. Niemann has to simply assert that the statements are false and it becomes the duty of the people who made the defamatory statements to prove the statements to either be true, non-defamatory, or non-actionable.
@@qwilliams1539 What you are thinking of is how defamation works under UK law.
That is not how it works in the US.
In the US, the person claiming a statement to be defamatory has to prove that the statement in question is false, because truth is an absolute defense against defamation. If you cannot prove that a supposedly defamatory statement is false, you lose. This is one major reason why it is so much harder to win defamation cases in the US. The burden is on the claimant to prove that the statement is false, rather than on the accused to prove it is true.
@@qwilliams1539 you're the one who knows nothing about defamation law, kiddo. But your confidence is cute!
The device at 7:33 is not a metal detector-it’s a (very expensive) nonlinear junction detector, which detects semiconductors which are present in any electronic device; although there are claimed ways to defend against detection.
You've done so many Indochino sponsorships that when I saw a video from you with "$100 million dollar suit" I thought, dang, I'm going to need a hell of a discount code for that sponsorship.
People don’t realise that there’s no luck involved when we’re talking about this level of play.
Worth noting: In order for Niemann to have cheated against Carlsen, he would have had to have a collaborator to relay the information to him. Who else has been determined by the same chess site to have cheated in online games on that site? Niemann's coach.
To me, the most underrated aspect of Carlsen's comments, was when he said that Niemann simply did not seem engaged in the match with all the emotion, focus and intensity that goes into the live, over-the-board analysis process. Niemann was simply sitting there, blasé, and making the moves, which perfectly aligned with those of a chess engine, as if he was operating a can opener. OK, Carlsen didn't use the can opener analogy, but Niemann's lack of engagement and focus is huge.
He wouldn't need a collaborator really. Mike Boyd built the device with an arduino and proved it works. All that needed to happen was that the arduino knew the board state, which can be done if its being recorded.
I mean a guy lost to computer purely because the computer behaved in a way he didn’t expect and it flustered him… the computer never intended to fluster the guy, it just didn’t know what move to make and went F%ck it.
So I think saying “they weren’t engaged enough in the match” is about as stupid as it gets, your just admitting you got flustered and lost control.
@@draketurtle4169Deep blue vs Kasparov right? Sure it psyched him the hell out, there was a lot riding on the match and it was the first of its kind, playing against the chess machine that IBM sunk a ton of money into. I'd shit my pants too if it pulled out a random move, I don't have a computer brain and from what I remember they were pretty even until Blue gained an advantage
As for the Niemann business, he made an ass of himself before, very full of himself, immature and a loudmouth, then suddenly he's acting far too calm and isn't feeling the slightest bit of tension or that immature excitement? Not remotrly engaged when playing against *the* chess guy? Gimme a break, I'm not surprised at all to find out he cheated
@@draketurtle4169 IBM later admitted in so many words that Kasparov was right.
They used human analysis before the match to predict a weakness that Kasparov was likely to exploit and wrote an explicit exception in the code to play a specific move that the computer would've never worked out.
A perfect excuse to procrastinate my legal readings: thank you!
Be honest, any excuse becomes the perfect excuse in that situation.
lmao same
No judge would accept that excuse, though
@@ruffusgoodman4137 or would they? Only one way to find out! 😃
Couldn't you consider it research? 😎
As a chess player you have no idea how happy I am to see you cover this
imagine how many luxorious anal beads u can buy for 100 million
Probably about as happy as Nieman was the first time he tested that communication device.
@@jamesgilbert124 Allegedly... 😄😅
@@jamesgilbert124 buzzzzzzzzz
Carlson Magnus is a legend in the chess world. He's an an absolute position of power in terms of reputation, history and connections. His level of understanding of the game, the players, and AI-driven chess bots is probably unrivaled and there's likely only a couple people in the world even capable of evaluating it. If he smells something rotten enough that he'd stake his reputation on calling it out, that puts Niemann in an incredibly tough spot to defend himself other than to keep playing unarguably good chess, accept whatever security measures they deem sufficient and beat Magnus again. That would make an amazing story, but for now I'm going to go with what seems simplest and that's that the kid figured out a really good way to cheat and Carlson could absolutely tell this wasn't Niemann's chess he was playing against.
Very well stated.
He can't keep playing unarguably good chess when he has been removed from events he was to previously play at up to a year and a half later. The damage is done, his life may well be ruined before he has a real chance to prove himself.
@@ButcherParry exactly, with Magnus literally walking away from games as well. He has acted like a petty bully, and to be honest should pay.
I think a simpler explanation is that Magnus had a shit game. Cause he did. He played a shit game.
@@ButcherParry Absolutely. But in the favor of neutrality, this is only the case if Niemann did in fact NOT cheat. If he did, then he played himself instead of the game, and lost.
I watch both Gotham, and Legal Eagle independently. So this was a nice treat. And the topic was of much interest to me. Great video. If this goes farther I would love continued coverage of any new developments. Thanks
The anal beads thing came from a Reddit post where a user was jokingly suggesting that Niemann used them. News media picked it up as "factual" and ran with it because it gets clicks. Though it is extremely unlikely that is how Niemann cheated, assuming it is true that he is cheating in OTB chess.
My question is, why did he put a photo of Hikaru Nakamura right at the point where he mentions Ben Wa. @0:51
@@Diamond_Skies probably just to troll the viewers lmao
There are so many other easier ways he could've cheated that the beads thing is ridiculous.
But while anyone is making fun of a pathological liar and competitive cheater i'm not complaining. Sometimes two wrongs do make a right 😄
Given the existence of an enormous chess lawsuit, I'm so happy that this collaboration is happening.
only enormous because he pulled the 100m number out his you know where
@@swyxTV the numbers speak for themselves, and while I'm not a lawyer, I think they spell disaster for Niemann at Sacri- sorry, wrong meme.
Extremely interesting video ! I feel like you can apply so much of this on differents topics. Learned a lot thx :)
Thank you! I was hoping you'd cover this case.
The unfortunate thing for Hans is that Magnus is such a big brand in chess that he can singlehandedly blacklist Hans from big tournaments by announcing he won't play him. The big tournament directors are always gonna choose to invite Magnus, and if that means they can't invite Hans, they won't. He probably isn't too far off when he says Magnus ruined his life. That said, he has a history of cheating, so he could've done things differently to prevent this from happening.
To be fair, Hans ruined his own career. Anyone who has this lengthy history of cheating does not deserve to play in tournaments, let alone prized tournaments. If I had to play against a known cheater in any sport or game, I will always think I'm the one being cheated, which is very distracting during the match.
I take your point, but I'm not sure I'd use the phrase "ruined his life" to describe turning a millionaire into a millionaire who can't play at certain big chess tournaments.
No one asked him to cheat, he ruined his own career.
@@ksham. thats irrelevant magnus had no problem playing him until he lost. previously cheating didnt ruin his career, beating magnus that day did
@@dawidkoscielny9621 Magnus didn't want to play Hans BEFORE the loss actualy, it has been testified by organizers & other players.
Legal Eagle speaks for himself.
Your joke makes me all tingly deep inside
Good vibes!
This joke format has a long life ahead of it.
Greatest Chess meme of all time...
lol
bruh, why would carlsen go so far and risk his reputation just because he 'couldn't handle being defeated by a 19 year old'?? man's been beaten by literal child prodigies, he has no issue being beaten by 13 year olds, let alone grown men. it's just such a bizarre statement when we have seen him lose largely gracefully; in fact, he was a pretty sore loser in his teens and early twenties, but naturally matured and takes it all in stride from what i've seen. he only seems to get mad at himself when he plays poorly, as opposed to getting mad at other players for beating him. the many years of games we've seen of magnus just straight up debunks neimann's accusations about his character.
One of the coolest collaborations I would've never expected... Legal Eagle and Gotham Chess 🤘
the question you had to ask your self was: "would neiman hide a chessbot up his ass?" after seeing a few interviews with him I determined yes, yes he would.
He's like cartman and has an alien supercomputer up his bum.
@@markdavis7397 Magnus is a sore loser. Get over it. That loss will shame him for the rest of his life, hahaha.
Honestly I think its pretty unlikely that Hanus cheated in his otb game against Magnus. Magnus played poorly probably because he was so worried about cheating.
@@isaacflett1321 from what I understand Hans had access to Magnus chess workbook. Basically the equivalent of an opposing coach knowing your playbook. SO its more likely hacking than a chess bot.
@@MrJanes-cl5sj This is kind of what I come for. I understand why people are suspicious after Hans made a ridiculously high number of ideal moves but you are actually suggesting a method. Most of the other accusations are not too far from "he played too well, he must be cheating."
As a complete outsider I’m surprised that a “bad boy” gimmick wouldn’t have run into more basic problems in professional chess. I think of high level professional competition usually having a standard sportsman like of conduct that people are expected to follow. So swear-heavy interviews and aggressive behavior would be something (separate from any cheating) that might bar someone from competing.
Erm... you haven't been following chess. They have huge egos. Hence why Magnus was so annoyed when Niemann got lucky...
Unfortunately these people are just as narcissistic and nasty as anyone else on the planet.
Competition brings the ego x100.
Chess is becoming more of a spectator sport as of late, and spectator sports generally thrive off of "heels" of whom you want to root against.
Because it's 2022 and a person's gimmick shouldn't matter only their skill
It's a sport, and there's at least one "bad boy" in each of them. McEnroe, Rodman, Cobb, Vick... he just joins a long line of talented players with big egos.
The collab I Needed but Didn't know I do !! Thank you soo much
the problem is that against people his level he usually has less then 60% accuracy but against better players he has super high accuracy
Bobby Fischer had 0 perfect games
Kasparov had 0 perfect games
Carlsen has 2 perfect games
and this random fella who admitted to cheating has 10 perfect games that go up to 48 moves
Small correction, It is Magnus Carlsen, not Carlson! I searched a bit and Magnus Carlson is even a different person, a Swedish singer.
Edit as I am watching the video: Carlsen's 53 game streak was not a winning streak, but a non-losing one. He did not lose a game, but he did not win them all either
There's a few other ones as well, eg the anal bead rumor didn't start on reddit, but on GM Eric Hansen's twitch chat (from an anonymous viewer, not from Eric). Overall though I feel the video is well done and I am glad to hear the legal analysis that doesn't rely on the reddit "lawyers". Would also love a review of the Stockfish vs Chessbase case.
And it should be noted In classical chess. Neimann beat Carlsen in rapid 10 days before.
At the highest levels of chess a draw is actually the expected result and is typically a neutral result unless the two competitors have a drastically different competitive evaluation. Magnus being the best in the world needs to win to maintain and gain rating, and by playing for a win you are inviting the risk for loosing. He had been on a quest to be the first to reach 2900 elo in classical for quite a while now as well.
A draw with black is actually a good in top level chess as white has a not so insignificant advantage
Yeah a 53 win streak in classical is basically impossible in modern chess with engines. 53 games straight of not losing is still pretty impressive though.
Wooo! As soon as the lawsuit dropped, I commented on a Gotham video that this collab should happen. So excited to see it come true!!
Same. I even sent an email to Devan recommending it almost a month ago. Tho I am sure it was such big news it'd have happened anyway.
@@thorjelly Yep, I came right over and posted a comment on his latest video (She-Hulk analysis I think it was), and said there's a lot of people who would like this topic covered. Hopefully he gets more subscribers this way, he's got a great channel!
you should sue him for stealing your idea and profiting off it
Honestly, I expected it to be more of a collab on Levy's channel, but this is also awesome. I like Devin's content more for legal talk.
“100 million dollars? He certainly pulled that one out of his ass”
Never change Legal Eagle, never change!
Great video as normal but I most loved the suit 👌🏿. Can't remember where you said you get them from, but I'm actually now going to look for one like it.
Thank you for providing a plausible explanation for why this was filed in MO and not CT. I had been at a loss on that point up to now.
I realize you take whatever advantage you can get for the benefit of your client, but if accurate, that reasoning is just a red flag that you're not confident in the case.
@@Griswold7Slicer even if you are confdent for better reward or chances no reason not to take an advantage the legal system isn't know for its ....ease
@@Zalied The point isn't, I suspect, to win, just to make it more expensive to fight the case. That's the point of slap suits.
IMO that part of this video was especially weak.
I don't even remember any possible justification for considering CT.
I'm guessing but the tort (scene of the alleged crime) was in St Louis, Missouri.
Except for Carlsen, all the other defendants did their alleged violations over the Internet that I know of. It's harder to specify a jurisdiction for a crime performed entirely over the Internet but I guess someone can always try to argue jurisdiction in court.
So awesome to see both you guys! I've been watching you all both for quite a while now and this was awesome! Glad the legal eagle got in on this one
Finally. Thank you! Please keep us updated
The soundeffekt added when text was highlighted was incredibly satisfying, cudos to the editor :)
Legal Eagle neglected to mention the incredible moment when the judges had to covertly use the metal detector on Niemann's back end lol.
That was gold duh!…
Yeah, Legal Eagle only argued the perceived legal merits of the case but without any consideration of the actual case details which is a difference a lot of the audience does not understand.
It should be noted that the game in question was played at the St Louis Chess Club in a building the Club owns so has sole occupancy and complete control over the premises. That means that all the people on premises were known (AFAIK only employees and players. There were no guests, support team members, friends, etc).
Every player was wanded both before and after every game.
All electronic devices (including transmissible anal beads) would be detected and asked to be removed, phones and even watches and metallic credit cards.
Every player was continuously on camera monitoring during play (AFAIK cameras were for broadcasts and not security but can easily be for both purposes).
So, there is plenty of camera footage of every player in the tournament (unless it's since been erased).
@@tonysu8860 I read that the transmissible anal beads may be undetectable if deep enough. I think it was just a joke. But, maybe there's more explanations as how can you cheat in such escenario?
I’ve been waiting for this, I’m sure the whole chess community has too- thank you on behalf of all of us, your lawyering speaks for itself.
Gotham in this video speaks for himself
@@madisi98 the snacc speaks for itself
He was buzzing with information in this video
0:52 This bit of side snark commentary was simply ::chef’s kiss::
The dismissal speaks for itself.
I was waiting for a lawyer to do a video on this lawsuit - and great to see that you teamed up with such a good expert as GothamChess.
Attorney Tom does a video too that is excellent. It explains in more detail about the jurisdiction issues. Toms is a longer but very excellent video too.
I think Uncivil Law did a video too.
To be fair, Gothamchess isn't much of an expert compared to GMs like Nakamura or Carlsen. But his channel is so large because he appeals to the younger generation which is 90% of youtube
@@Christoff070 He's certainly not as strong a player as GMs and super GMs, but he's certainly a good chess communicator. I'd argue those are different skills.
@@Smitology that's debatable, depending whether you prefer thorough chess analysis or excited chess analysis. Levy at times sounds like a boxing commentator describing moves. While this is exciting, he doesn't always analyse key positions in depth
This is the video I wanted to see as soon as that lawsuit dropped. Just a clarification, Magnus had a 53 game unbeaten streak, not winning streak. It's still very impressive though.
And an even more impressive list of 20 games lost as white in like 5 or 10 years or something
Must be those beads.
Very well done legal analysis done in the C-Squared podcast/RUclips unfortunately the video was taken down likely by it's owner.
This is a video I'll be viewing multiple times in order to grasp the multiple concepts mentioned - I'm no lawyer; just someone interested in legal matters.
I saw Levys video analysis of this issue, so I'm excited to see the legal analysis of this with you and him!
Niemann is from my hometown and we went to chess school together. I was 16 and he was 10 and he was in the advanced class with me and undeniably the most skilled person in the room, but he was also such a spoiled little prick. Not that a child's behavior automatically decides who they are as an adult but it feels like him developing into this kind of person was a long time coming and even if he didn't cheat he's still dug himself into such a deep hole because of his crappy self-important worldview.
I went to high school with Hans in CT, he was in my grade, still a total prick as a teenager lol
I am here for all the juicy first hand accounts of Hans being a spoiled prick lol.
@@JP-jd5vz he's been a prick in interviews and streams for years wdym
@@joedorben3504 I like first hand accounts other than interviews.
@@JP-jd5vz Aren't interviews first hand accounts?
It's literally the dude speaking into a camera and microphone with no middleman.
I love Levy having many public appearances recently
I used to work next door to the Stl Chess Club, and worked many of their events. The day this happened was so crazy! I've wondered about the legal ramifications of Nakamura's comments. Thanks for covering this. I feel like a lot of people think chess is pretty dry, but it can be full of drama like any other competition.
Hot take: it's dry because bad players are bad. Once you get decently strong, it becomes a lot more interesting. Instead of seemingly like unsolvable wizardry and random moves, the game becomes more of an art.
@@descendency True, Bc GMs and especially SuperGMs never ever make simple blunders, strategy actually drives games much more rather than just waiting for the first player to make a critical mistake
@@descendency Not classical chess, though. As more than a decently strong player, I still find classical chess to be very dry and uninteresting. Blitz and Rapid chess, though, I would agree with you can get very exciting.
Look up Bobby Fischer sometime. His story is wild.
Shout out to MO fam! I'm on the other side of the state tho.
Legal Eagle collaborating with Gotham Chess? My day is off to a hell of a strong start
YES FINALLY I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR YOUR VIDEO ON THIS
I was waiting for this video. Thank you
Thanks for this. I've been following both you and Levy on YT for a while. Great to see the collaboration! And thank you for the analysis of this lawsuit.
"He certainly pulled that out of his ass." 😬😅🤣
Hey Legal Eagle! I would love your take on the DOOM Eternal soundtrack issue. Between the composer, Mick Gordon and the publisher, iD Software.
Yess
Huge fan of Gotham and been following this case since September and enjoying watching everything unfold
Carlsen wrote that he *believed* Niemann cheated.
In my world, people are allowed to believe what the hell they want...
What world do you live in where defamation does not exist?
@@richardsejour7731saying you believed someone cheated is not defamation and claiming it is wouldn’t hold up in court
@@richardsejour7731 I am no expert in Law, but Legal Eagle seems to be and at 13:00 he appears to make the point that an opinion is not defamatory. Also, "NorwegianOne" probably lives in Norway, a land of more sane laws, so suing someone isn't the first one thinks to do when one is butthurt over someone else's opinion.
@@richardsejour7731 Attempting to spread a widespread and DIRECT claim against someone is defamation. Stating you have an opinion on a social media platform is not. I’m glad idiots like you are not lawyers.
I believe that's moronic.
Interestingly, Mike Boyd put up a video just yesterday where he took a vibrator and adapted it to be able to communicate chess moves. Worked perfectly, his opponent couldn't hear it, and he played like Stockfish. The more tech goes up, the easier this sort of thing will be.
Beyond that, I sincerely doubt that Niemann just cheated 'twice'. He got caught twice, but unless he had some sort of epiphany it's probably a lot more than that. Cheating at high ranks by excellent players is not uncommon in any competition, and it Hans' impassioned defense is VERY reminiscent of proven cheaters in other fields defense tactics. That doesn't mean he's guilty of this particular incident, but it in no way demonstrates innocence nor does he get to pretend he doesn't deserve much of what he's getting. No sympathy for the man at all. He built this problem for himself and now he gets to enjoy it.
Exactly. As soon as they caught him and he admitted it, he never should have been able to enter tournaments.
Wouldn't any kind of vibrator have been picked up by a metal detector?
It's got batteries
@@LocoHosa I suppose it would depend how strong those metal detectors are.
@@Julian0101 yeah we've known for ages that the metal detectors and screening procedures are way too good for the anal beads thing to be true.
It doesn't mean he didn't cheat but the anal beads was just a juicy and memeable runour
@@LocoHosa At the sinquefield cup they were also monitoring radio waves so it's not easy for a signal to be transmitted without being picked up
The overwhelming consensus on r/chess (which is popular with statisticians) is that the vid referenced at 4:56 is unreliable, as the methodology used by Yosha is flawed and basically manipulates the data to try and prove that Nimann cheated. LE's researchers probly should've told him that...
Yeah, there's a lot of data manipulation and dishonest interpretation going on around the case. The biggest misrepresentation of data that is taken as a fact is the chesscom's statement in their report that Hans Niemann's rise to 2700 is the fastest anyone's ever done it. What they intentionally failed to mention is that by average elo gained per game played, Niemann's rise is below average in the 2700 club (far far below prodigies like Alireza et al); he just played far more than anyone else has ever done before within a 2 year period. The result of leaving that part out? People actually think that Niemann has played better than anyone in history, which couldn't be farther from the truth.
Finally I can watch a chess video w/o Levy ... 30 seconds later.
The most important thing to remember is that people cheat in every competitive avenue (sport, gambling, games etc.) at every level (amateur, pro, even world record level). Somehow despite the overwhelming evidence of this time and time again people always act surprised. "Why would they cheat its just a game" or "they are so good they don't need to cheat." People cheat across the board (pun intended). The olympics, video game speedrunning, poker, you name it.
I feel a limerick coming on:
There once was a suit in Missouri
From a guy who played chess in a hurry
With beads up his kiester
They thought him a cheater
He brought lawsuits in a huge flurry
Okay, it needs work but not bad for off the top of my head.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
10/10
I bet an AI wrote that.
@@animalntelligence3170 I mean, I can't really prove that I'm not a meat robot with really advanced software. So it's not impossible.
Omg thank you for bringing this up. I have been weirdly curious about how this would follow through for the longest time.
The "covered" stamp literally stamping your ass made me crack up lol
i remember reading about all this on twitter when it happened and i still laugh at a comment from an actor from the adult industry. he said, firstly, you can't keep a straight face when the thing is buzzing you and secondly those things are not quiet.
:)))
so that's that.
Been waiting for this video since forever, and the fact that you Collab with Gotham chess makes this 1000x better
Watching LegalEagle videos becomes so much more fun once you start law school
I wonder: Are his videos actually helping you get through it with less stress and anxiety? Because that's why he started this channel, to help kids in law school, and the first couple of videos really focus on this. What a transformation this whole project has gone through.
I hope I can say the same in two years!
I absolutely lost it once he started talking about basic civil procedure stuff
@@antonnurwald5700 yeah it’s stress relief being able to understand the videos
When you enter practice your view may change. Especially if he comments on one of your own cases.
Just an FYI, the emails highlighted in the video, from the Niemann report ("proud of myself" etc) aren't referring to Niemann. I would take that out because it's misleading. I believe they were just to illustrate that the process wasn't Niemann specific and was successful (as the player referred to in the emails admitted to it).
Excellent analysis; very comprehensive and clear.. If the case does proceed to a discovery phase, I think Neiman's document requests from the defendants will be broader than just "agreements" between or among the defendants, and will encompass all written communications that were sent or received by them in the relevant window period, because agreements, even if not express, can be implied from communications between the parties. It will also be interesting to see if the defendants' lawyers file a motion to strike Nieman's scandalous and immaterial references to the various defendants (e.g. "cowardly").
I've been following this drama/scandal/event since the beginning and the most surprising thing of all of it is how many people don't realize how easy cheating in chess actually is/would be.
Exactly.
Can you list some examples?
@@checkb0y985
He listed a couple in the video, didn’t he?
@@checkb0y985 I've done it a few times over the board with my friends, can't be too hard to do in a more official setting. It's not like they actually do much to stop you from cheating... that's why when people make claims like this its serious because it's also very possible that he cheated.
@@checkb0y985
The basic idea is obvious enough; Get a (powerful) chess computer, hide it anywhere, secretly consult it during games.
This video was absolutely BUZZING with information
I love, LOVE that I know which lolsuit the Judge Chupp commit is in reference to lol.
Two of my favorite youtubers collaborating, I literally never thought I’d see the day
It's really awesome to see you working with GothamChess. I've learned a lot from both of you, though I've started further ahead with chess. I'm not a lawyer and never will be one but I'm grateful for having a knowledge base so I don't feel totally lost in legal conversations, or I know what to ask, at least.
Hi Mr Stone (and team), love all the puns!! Thank you for your work 😀
4:31 reminds me of what my old pal chuck mcgill used to say
As a fan of both channels, this colab sure did come out of the blue! Couldn't be happier it happened!
Maybe it's just been a while, but your setup and camera quality and lighting and whatever else you got going on is A++++ 👍
Some hackers cheated at slot machines, but it was done via binary taps in a device in the shoe. So... I could see the beads thing
Glad to see the awesome chess community and my favorite names crossing over into this channel. Despite the crazy drama that caused it 😅
I absolutely love it when you can fit a Futurama reference in the video! ♥️
LEVY! I’ve been praying for this collab since the scandal was released!
thanks dude, your legal analsyis rocks
LegalEagle and GothamChess are two of my favorite channels!
Objection @1:34: Draws are an extremely common outcome in chess, an 'unbeaten' streak is not a 'winning' streak.