I really want to thank you for this. I am a bit of an impulse buyer, and I have now two lutes from the EMS, and four from Muzikkon. The quality of the Muzikkon Lutes can not be overstated, and the resonance for a starter Lute is simply divine.
Well done overview of the entry lute market! It's unfortunate the "barrier to entry" is still high for someone who wants to take up the lute. My first instrument was $1,100 thirty years ago, and it *wasn't* a great instrument. Still, it got me started down the path and here I am, decades later. My recommendation is to rent an instrument from the Lute Society of America to find out if it's something for you. It's also a good way to figure out what period of music you like and what sort of instrument fits the bill. Although it's not cheap to rent for a year, you get a lot better of an idea of what a lute is, versus what your previous perceptions were. (good or bad)
I've owned a Roosebeck, which as far as I've determined was designed by the devil specifically to torture the faithful with horrible buzzing noises. All of which are fixable, but you really need to make a new nut, new bridge, and refret the whole thing (and in my case re-glue some braces), and the kind of beginner that would buy one is not the kind of person who would think to do surgery on a musical instrument they don't fully understand, but rather the kind that would assume "it's my fault," "the instrument is too hard to learn," etc. Even when set up perfectly, it's a very quiet instrument. My first time playing an instrument in the 5-10k USD range was a revelation.
For anybody who likes Lutes, check out the book "The name of the wind" by Patrick Rothfuss. It's not only my fav book series, but lutes play (literally) a great part of the story.
One update, if I may: You rightly report that Le Luth Doré's Chinese partners started selling lutes out the back door. The big German instrument supplier, Thomann, marketed these bootleg instruments in Europe, without so much as removing LLD's logo. This was in 2019, if I recall correctly. As soon as Le Luth Doré got wind of this, they launched a legal action against Thomann and the matter may still be before the courts. In the mean time, Le Luth Doré has re-organized to produce their line of lutes entirely in France, and they are now taking advance orders for these instruments. (Thomann is now offering some house-brand lutes which greatly resemble the products of Sandi and Roosebeck.)
I had a friend who owned both a Roosebeck and a much higher quality, handmade lute, so I got a chance to play both. I thought the Roosebeck was nice enough, but then I played the other and the difference was HUGE. Night and day. The Roosebeck sounded like a tin can in comparison. I'm currently renting an LSA lute. The instrument itself had a few problems at first, but the nice thing about the rental program is that it's very friendly. I dealt directly with the program director. He even carved a new nut for the lute, and the rental terms are very reasonable. At the end of 12 months, if I decide to switch from 6c to 7c, I can do that without spending several thousand dollars.
Great video Matt. So many lutenists on RUclips I find are _m_u_t_e_. You know, I get it, the music should speak for itself, and if you ask me, it does. But honestly there's a lot more to the global Lute community, and the Lute experience, than just the sound of these wonderful instruments. So great to see someone taking the time to explain these basic questions. As a matter of fact, I wish I'd seen this video when I bought my first lute a year and a half ago. At one point I came very close to buying a Sandi...dodged a bullet with that one.
Thanks for this- unbiased, experience-based advice on where to go for rather niche instruments like the lute is needed. Luth dore seemed to present themselves as a good quality intermediate lute maker. Brandon Acker, the well-known RUclips musician and enthusiast, sang the praises of his luth dore lute. I was thinking of upgrading there from my old EMS lute, but does anyone know whether luth dore is currently selling Lutes? I've visited their website and they mention getting back after a hiatus, but where are they currently? I bought my EMS lute nearly 20 years ago so they may have significantly changed since. Anyway, I've enjoyed it- it 's lightly constructed as I would expect from an actual lute, and has a pleasing, crisp sound. The pegs are hard to turn, and I've been doubtful whether the string spacing is the best. Can it be an issue that the 2 strings of a single course can be too far apart? I'd be interested to hear more feedback regarding Muzikkon instruments- including their baroque guitars. Ieva Baltmiskyte on RUclips plays them to nice effect.
Last I checked Le Luth Dore was still on hiatus from building instruments. But that could have changed. EMS overhauled their lutes several years ago and now they are supposed to be much nicer than the ones from before.
What put me off from renting from LSA years ago was the requirement of putting it on homeowners or renter's insurance which I simply didn't have. I decided it would be better to just simply buy one. I've wanted one since 2016 so I definitely need to get on that. LLD is currently out of stock sadly and I'd be waiting a year for a luthier in my price range which would be my ideal choice. I'd never heard of Muzzikon so I may look at that. I heard EMS can have setup issues and I especially hear Roosebeck does.
Thanks for the video! Many questions answered! Its embarassing to ask, but could you compare build quality of lutes to ouds in say the mid range price area! Can an oud be tuned and played like a lute! What could be the lifespan of a lute compared to an oud?
Not an expert as I’ve only owned one Oud, but from looking online, it seems Ouds tend to be higher quality at any given price point. Ouds are a living tradition and my impression is that they’re popular enough in the Middle East to have a bigger market and more streamlined production (could be wrong on that). I would expect the biggest challenge to convert an Oud to a lute would be to tie on frets and not have them buzz, but it might work… you’d also only have five courses, with the single course in the bass rather than the treble, which would severely limit the repertoire you can play. Both are instruments that can last a lifetime
I have a Sandi lute bought on ebay. The sound is slightly quieter than the musikkon I've tried from my friend. The SANDI lute has a strange smell to it, like urea, I believe it is from the wood. The pegs are rough and I had to use a lot of peg soap and lubricate the nut because it is quite sharp and sometimes break the strings. There are construction blemishes present on the soundboard which is just the looks but still you would expect more from a luthier workshop especially at the price point. Sound wise apart from the quiet sound it is ok. It keeps the tune well. The hardcase is a great bonus.
Sounds about right for the one I got too. Glad it’s working for you! If that’s what you’ve got and it’s working for you, then no shade! But it is my least favorite of the sub-$1000 sellers that I’ve out my hands on
thanks anyways, just curious because luth Dore look like quality instruments so maybe an affordable knock off would be a suitable student model@@mattcecil9007
I really want to thank you for this. I am a bit of an impulse buyer, and I have now two lutes from the EMS, and four from Muzikkon. The quality of the Muzikkon Lutes can not be overstated, and the resonance for a starter Lute is simply divine.
Well done overview of the entry lute market! It's unfortunate the "barrier to entry" is still high for someone who wants to take up the lute. My first instrument was $1,100 thirty years ago, and it *wasn't* a great instrument. Still, it got me started down the path and here I am, decades later.
My recommendation is to rent an instrument from the Lute Society of America to find out if it's something for you. It's also a good way to figure out what period of music you like and what sort of instrument fits the bill. Although it's not cheap to rent for a year, you get a lot better of an idea of what a lute is, versus what your previous perceptions were. (good or bad)
I've owned a Roosebeck, which as far as I've determined was designed by the devil specifically to torture the faithful with horrible buzzing noises. All of which are fixable, but you really need to make a new nut, new bridge, and refret the whole thing (and in my case re-glue some braces), and the kind of beginner that would buy one is not the kind of person who would think to do surgery on a musical instrument they don't fully understand, but rather the kind that would assume "it's my fault," "the instrument is too hard to learn," etc. Even when set up perfectly, it's a very quiet instrument.
My first time playing an instrument in the 5-10k USD range was a revelation.
Sounds awful! When did you get the Roosebeck? Some of the responses I’ve gotten to this video hint that it may have been overhauled a few years ago
Late 2019, I think. If so the new ones might be worthwhile, but sounds like a giant gamble. @@mattcecil9007
I bet your son thanked you for buying him a lute! :)
For anybody who likes Lutes, check out the book "The name of the wind" by Patrick Rothfuss. It's not only my fav book series, but lutes play (literally) a great part of the story.
One update, if I may: You rightly report that Le Luth Doré's Chinese partners started selling lutes out the back door. The big German instrument supplier, Thomann, marketed these bootleg instruments in Europe, without so much as removing LLD's logo. This was in 2019, if I recall correctly. As soon as Le Luth Doré got wind of this, they launched a legal action against Thomann and the matter may still be before the courts. In the mean time, Le Luth Doré has re-organized to produce their line of lutes entirely in France, and they are now taking advance orders for these instruments. (Thomann is now offering some house-brand lutes which greatly resemble the products of Sandi and Roosebeck.)
I had a friend who owned both a Roosebeck and a much higher quality, handmade lute, so I got a chance to play both. I thought the Roosebeck was nice enough, but then I played the other and the difference was HUGE. Night and day. The Roosebeck sounded like a tin can in comparison.
I'm currently renting an LSA lute. The instrument itself had a few problems at first, but the nice thing about the rental program is that it's very friendly. I dealt directly with the program director. He even carved a new nut for the lute, and the rental terms are very reasonable. At the end of 12 months, if I decide to switch from 6c to 7c, I can do that without spending several thousand dollars.
Thank you for the advice! I hadn't found Muzikonn and was trying to decide between Thomann and Roosebeck until I saw this video.
Great video Matt.
So many lutenists on RUclips I find are _m_u_t_e_. You know, I get it, the music should speak for itself, and if you ask me, it does. But honestly there's a lot more to the global Lute community, and the Lute experience, than just the sound of these wonderful instruments. So great to see someone taking the time to explain these basic questions.
As a matter of fact, I wish I'd seen this video when I bought my first lute a year and a half ago. At one point I came very close to buying a Sandi...dodged a bullet with that one.
Thank you so much for the feedback! Yes I think my RUclips niche will be mostly talking about lutes and some playing. :)
Of course, you can - and should - also play vihuela music on a Renaissance lute.
3:56 I'd imagine ~99 percent of lute players already are guitarists
Thanks for this- unbiased, experience-based advice on where to go for rather niche instruments like the lute is needed.
Luth dore seemed to present themselves as a good quality intermediate lute maker. Brandon Acker, the well-known RUclips musician and enthusiast, sang the praises of his luth dore lute. I was thinking of upgrading there from my old EMS lute, but does anyone know whether luth dore is currently selling Lutes? I've visited their website and they mention getting back after a hiatus, but where are they currently?
I bought my EMS lute nearly 20 years ago so they may have significantly changed since. Anyway, I've enjoyed it- it 's lightly constructed as I would expect from an actual lute, and has a pleasing, crisp sound. The pegs are hard to turn, and I've been doubtful whether the string spacing is the best. Can it be an issue that the 2 strings of a single course can be too far apart?
I'd be interested to hear more feedback regarding Muzikkon instruments- including their baroque guitars. Ieva Baltmiskyte on RUclips plays them to nice effect.
Last I checked Le Luth Dore was still on hiatus from building instruments. But that could have changed. EMS overhauled their lutes several years ago and now they are supposed to be much nicer than the ones from before.
Thank you! I've been thinking about getting one for a while
do it! Lutes are the best!
What put me off from renting from LSA years ago was the requirement of putting it on homeowners or renter's insurance which I simply didn't have. I decided it would be better to just simply buy one. I've wanted one since 2016 so I definitely need to get on that. LLD is currently out of stock sadly and I'd be waiting a year for a luthier in my price range which would be my ideal choice. I'd never heard of Muzzikon so I may look at that. I heard EMS can have setup issues and I especially hear Roosebeck does.
Thanks for the video!
Many questions answered!
Its embarassing to ask, but could you compare build quality of lutes to ouds in say the mid range price area!
Can an oud be tuned and played like a lute!
What could be the lifespan of a lute compared to an oud?
Not an expert as I’ve only owned one Oud, but from looking online, it seems Ouds tend to be higher quality at any given price point. Ouds are a living tradition and my impression is that they’re popular enough in the Middle East to have a bigger market and more streamlined production (could be wrong on that). I would expect the biggest challenge to convert an Oud to a lute would be to tie on frets and not have them buzz, but it might work… you’d also only have five courses, with the single course in the bass rather than the treble, which would severely limit the repertoire you can play. Both are instruments that can last a lifetime
How would you say the Muzikkon travel lutes are?
I have a Sandi lute bought on ebay. The sound is slightly quieter than the musikkon I've tried from my friend.
The SANDI lute has a strange smell to it, like urea, I believe it is from the wood. The pegs are rough and I had to use a lot of peg soap and lubricate the nut because it is quite sharp and sometimes break the strings. There are construction blemishes present on the soundboard which is just the looks but still you would expect more from a luthier workshop especially at the price point.
Sound wise apart from the quiet sound it is ok. It keeps the tune well. The hardcase is a great bonus.
Sounds about right for the one I got too. Glad it’s working for you! If that’s what you’ve got and it’s working for you, then no shade! But it is my least favorite of the sub-$1000 sellers that I’ve out my hands on
I ordered one which was completely unplayable and unfixable.
how is the quality of a Thomann lute? compared to Muzikkon
I don’t know. I recommend avoiding Thomann lutes due to ethical reasons, not reasons of quality
thanks anyways, just curious because luth Dore look like quality instruments so maybe an affordable knock off would be a suitable student model@@mattcecil9007