Shamed by Sex, Survivors of the Purity Movement Confront the Past | Retro Report
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 5 апр 2021
- As a chastity movement supported by evangelical Christians gained momentum in the 1990s, virginity was celebrated at rallies and rock concerts, and some teenagers signed religious vows and wore "purity rings," swearing off sex until marriage. But two decades later, followers are grappling with unforeseen aftershocks.
Subscribe to our newsletters for the history behind the headlines: www.retroreport.org/newsletters/
CONNECT WITH RETRO REPORT
Website: www.retroreport.org
Twitter: / retroreport
Facebook: / retroreport
Instagram: / retroreport
RUclips: / retroreport
Retro Report in the Classroom: www.retroreport.org/education/
Retro Report is an independent, nonprofit news organization that explores the history behind the headlines. Learn more at www.retroreport.org.
Mad respect to Joshua Harris for taking accountability for his actions as a teenager.
Don't give him too much credit. He tried to sell everybody on a course he created about deconstructing from the purity movement. Just because somebody poisons you and then offers to sell you the cure, that doesn't make them a good person.
nah f that he had no business being the leader of this in the first place
💯
For him its probably "all about money".
I am 23, and I was raised in purity culture. I grew up watching my favorite Disney stars talk about purity and wear purity rings. My state's idea of sex ed was abstinence education. I heard teachers refer to people who were no longer virgins as "chewed up pieces of gum". What no one knew was that I had been sexually abused when I was 7. I carried so much shame in my tweens and teens because of it. Thank you Retro Report for covering this.
I remember Elizabeth Smart talking about just this- How before she was kidnapped and raped, she was taught just that in sex ed-and if a man "forced" himself on a young girl, she wasn't a virgin and how shameful that was. After she was kidnapped and rescued, it took a lot of therapy-not only to deal with the trama she went through, but to also deal with how dirty she was to men because of being raped.
Girl I am so sorry That happened to you.
Your abuse doesn't make virginity not precious. Your abuse is even stronger ground against your perpetrator for robbing your childhood and innocence. In my opinion whoever hurt you must be dead
Yea i feel u. Tht n mom always callin fast tail n stuff. Ugh
I am so sorry this happened. No child should ever have to go through that.
The purity movement also impacted those of us outside that bubble too. One of the most frequent bullying methods I’ve heard growing up in the late 90s and 2000s was making fun of someone for either being a virgin or not. On one side was the purity movement shaming someone for not being a virgin, and on the other an extremely strong pushback against the rigid evangelical culture. Everyone got caught up in it at some point, and it got pretty brutal for some.
This here!
The movement ruined the individual, that was a sad time. Even today these extremes are still around
I felt that, too!! The impact was negative. The whole concept of the purity ball was creepy. But the creepiness of prepubescent girls declaring themselves to be the "girlfriends" of their fathers until they marry the men pre-approved by their fathers is still considered virtuous to the most diehard purity cultists.
@@thudor1 The ball thing seemed odd to me when I saw it in a documentary. Fornication was taught against at church. I still think US dating culture is rotten. There is so much fornication and so many singles who want to marry 'fall through the cracks' the way the system operates. Online dating might actually make things worse in that regard than previous methods. Going to purity balls? I don't see that as a solution. Being daddy's 'girl friend.' I never heard of that. That sounds weird.
Dad approving the husband.... yes.... we need that definitely. I spent many years in Asia where there is a very strong social norm of getting parental approval for marriage. I don't know if the civil registrar would have signed off on our wedding if my wife's parents hadn't approved. She asked them. But I have no problem with that. That sort of thing prevents division in the family, also.
Between the time I was a child and now, the term 'bullying' shifted to include the most mild childish name-calling. I really don't get shaming virgins. I mean, i know guys do that in locker rooms. But there is nothing to be ashamed of and virgins need to be taught to hold their heads up high and defend their position and their choices boldly. Fornicators should be ashamed.
I have also seen a bit of reality TV where someone being a virgin on one of these dating shows is perceived as a negative. I even spoke with a man in the 1990's who did not want to be matched up on a date with a woman in Korea because she was over 40 and a 'virgin.' I found out later they had a word for 'virgin' that they used to refer to single women, whether she was a virgin or not. The expat I was speaking to thought that meant the woman would have no sex drive. I don't take it that way. Self-control is a virtue, and someone who can wait until marriage may be more likely to pass up on temptation after marriage. There is some research indicating less 'marital disruption' among women who only had sex with their husbands as opposed to those who had multiple partners (Teachman, 1990.)
"Your book was used as a weapon against me." This literally happened to me as a boy at my christian college tossed this book at me in my direction in anger when I criticized it as the bullshit it was.
It's impossible to overstate how harmful purity culture is. There is not enough therapy in the world to undo the years of being told that men's sins and temptations are my responsibility and my fault, any assault or r*pe was my fault (even as a child) because I was obviously "tempting" men. Even as a married adult, I still can't come to terms with sex suddenly being okay, after it being such a shameful and dirty topic my whole life. They just expect you to magically flip a switch, but I am terrified of my own body and of men. And I don't know if that will ever go away. :(
@@jlsgarage872 I've been married to my amazing husband for 7 years but thank you for inserting yourself into something you cannot possibly understand. Being in a loving relationship does not undo 20+ years of damage.
Purity culture is worse than the Holocaust, nope not impossible
do they ever think women are actual sexual persons? one way attraction seems to be embedded in most churches the last 20 years or so i hate the women as temptress nonesense women are faulted for everything
They shame women then expect marriage to be an overnight success. The marriage isn't really considered to be for women. I remember a Bible study where the leader said " sex is for the husband" as if sex is not for women at all. Even as far back as the 80's in churches there were huge double standards
I'm so sorry!!!!
I remember an interview with Elizabeth Smart and she mentioned the analogy of chewed gum. I never grew up in purity culture but I cried on her behalf
I grew up in Texas. My public middle and high schools held “abstinence rallies” where the whole school would have to sit in the auditorium and listen to this group of goofs tell us horror stories about sex. We were told we were chewed gum, we were de-petaled flowers, used tissues, crumpled foil, stomped trash, etc. they passed around foil for everyone to crumble and say that’s how god and your spouse will see you if you’ve fornicated 🤣 that was only like 10 years ago, I hope that shit stops at some point
@@ItsPsWorld4Ever Wow thats insane. I have never heard about something like that in my country. USA is WILD.
As a lot of people know Elizabeth Smart is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also known as Mormonism to the world. I myself am a member of this religion and I hate the chewed up gum analogy. it makes us feel like we are nothing. I'm pretty sure the boys don't even get the same conversation cuz once you hit 12 years old you are separated into the male and female classes of the church. it's annoying.
Within the past few weeks, I've realized that I was raised in a toxic environment with things like purity culture shoved down my throat. This video means so much to me. Thank you.
LGBTQ.... U SUPPORT?
@@somethinginteresting8151 Yes I support. I am LGBTQ+
@@somethinginteresting8151 over her heard and under her feet😂
Good guess
It is not premarital sex if you never get married.
😂
This purity movement hit me, too and pretty badly. I am not even in the States. I live in Mumbai, India. I waited for sex until marriage. It was an arranged (not forced) marriage and I couldn't believe that this disaster is what was really waiting for me on the other side. Anyway, that marriage ended and I have healed and been made whole, now. I also made sure that my younger sister (almost a decade younger) was not exposed to this kinda stuff. I am pretty proud of how she navigated her teenage years and is now a healthy adult with a healthy world view, especially about sexuality.
I feel like I almost die :( bc of that. Can you give an advice to forget this stuff?
Is it just me or the fact that the father daughter balls are creepy I mean being that young and your father have that much to do with your personal issues is uncomfortable
Oh I made that statement on The Kokomo Tribune's Facebook page after they reported on one in Kokomo, Indiana and wow I was attacked by the purity pledge crazies! You wouldn't believe the hate and the allegations that came my way.
@@seanwebb605 wow what is wrong with these people imagine how warped must these people be there children would barely grasp sex and what they do know is what they are told by people with an agenda
@@joannbyrne182 On the same lines they do a dress up day where the girls come to school or attend an event as property little ladies. And they think nothing of it. They make all sorts of claims about how young ladies need to respect themselves and not dress "The Wrong Way". It's pretty crazy.
And it reeks of stepford wives
@@seanwebb605 So the purity movement is still super active, huh. Geez.
I saw the tail end of the popularity of the movement, though it still exists. And it now occurs to me, as an adult, how creepy it is to have adults pushing purity onto teenagers in such an obsessive fashion. The idea is that sin is sin. Having sex isn't somehow more sinful than having a drink, or disrespecting your parents, etc. But it was adult evangelicals that latched onto sex as the be-all, end-all of sins.
I stopped believing in this when I became aware as a teen that a friend of mine was molested as a child so the whole "virgin" pledge thing became incongruous
Yea once I learned how the social idea of ‘purity’ came to be as well as being a survivor myself I dropped it. I’m happy there are people out there like me :)
Good for you
Help me
@@maevemavel20 What do you need help with?
I was in the second wave growing up in the 2000s and it really fucked me up. All my friends who grew up in this environment have dealt with sexual troubles, especially those of us in the LGBTQ+ community. It’s something that at the age of 23 I’m finally overcoming. Being able to embrace my sexuality has really helped my mental health.
It's gross, disgusting, and very creepy when a father is obsessed with his daughter's sex life and makes a big deal about not wanting her to ever have sex (since they don't want to lose that image of their daughters being pure, innocent etc). The idea that a girl loses her innocence and purity if she has sex is very harmful since it's just flat-out shaming women for being sexual beings. Fathers who think that way and think that their daughters will lose their innocence and purity by having sex are very disgusting in my opinion.
Men who act like their daughters are ruined after they have sex for the first time are basically supporting rape culture. These ideas are just making it harder on female rape victims than it is already is for them.
Take "Elizabeth Smart" for an example. She is now an activist against child abuse and sexual exploitation, who was kidnapped when she was 14, raped and held for nine months before she escaped. At a forum last year, Smart talked about the way that abstinence-only education made her feel "dirty and filthy" after she was raped.
"That's how easy it is to feel like you no longer have worth, you no longer have value. Why would it even be worth screaming out? Why would it even make a difference if you are rescued? Your life still has no value."
Elizabeth Smart's story just shows how harmful those ideas are to women. If men actually care about their daughters and other females in their life, they would not want to support those ideas.
do these people actually believe women don't look at men? why is christianity not aware of a woman as a sexual person desiring a man? hey ya know women have eyes duh 🤩
My point exactly. What also sucks is FGM is also common in a lot of Christian areas.
I had no idea it was this huge. I'm from South Africa. We were required to make purity pledges in church and High School. I'll never forget the night we were to sign the pledges at church in front of our parents. Some of my friends and I never did. Still impacted me though. Only in my mid20s did I build my self esteem when it comes to sex.
I was raised in a conservative church environment. I do not feel like I was raised in this purity culture though. I never signed a purity contract. I never got a purity ring or a promise ring. I did go throughout high school and college as a virgin and intended to stay a virgin u til marriage. I never felt shamed into remaining a virgin, and I never felt guilty for the sexual acts that I did growing up which was pretty much everything except intercourse. I of course ended up having sex before getting married like a lot of people do that plan on waiting till marriage. I never felt ashamed for that either. I am sorry to all these people that unfortunately did end up feeling that way, that does suck.
You weren't raised in purity culture (your own words) and this video doesn't apply to you. Be thankful
00:55: I laughed so hard and loud when Miley Cyrus popped up on the screen.
Same lmao
Agree with everything in this video. I thought I was going to hell when I lost my virginity. I knew in my heart of hearts that it wasn’t wrong, I was just so conditioned to believe that my body wasn’t my own. And of course I ended up marrying the wrong person for me because I was pregnant and he needed to “Make an honest woman out of me.” I’m so glad my daughter didn’t grow up this way. I’m glad we have such an open dialect about sex and protecting her. Because if I hadn’t been real when she was 16 and took her to get birth control we could have very well been raising a baby by now. I felt a strong duty to protect her and her future.
Being taught sex is bad is pretty harmful. Im a 27 year old male that’s terrified of intimacy. I honestly don’t know what to do because if I’m honest with myself it’s not something I want fixed it feels normal to think sex is dirty and shameful. I broke up with girls that would have made great wives as a teenager, i dont know why anyone thinks this is helpful to teach children
There's nothing wrong with sex as long as you do it within the context of marriage. The reason we should teach this is because it protects children. You should not have sex unless you are emotionally and financially ready to raise a child.
@@beautifulllstarsSomeone is gonna wonder why their teenager is pregnant. Abstinence only sex ed doesn't work. Look at the teen pregnancies rising already, due to that kind of thinking.
As an 80+ year old, being a virgin was not uncommon. Then the 'pill' arived and the fear of pregnancy and shotgun weddings became uncommon, especially because men found that they came to expect that all young women were on the pill and they were responsible if they got pregnant. On the downside it meant that sex inside marriage was the blind leading the blind.
I remember purity culture. I had a purity ring and attended a purity ball as a teen. I didn't lose my virginity until 30 (outside of marriage). I struggled with guilt and shame for a while afterwards (and yes, I remember my youth pastor chewing a piece a gum and trying to see who wanted to chew it after him, saying you're a chewed up piece of gum if you have sex). I actually stayed in an abusive relationship for 3 years because I thought I HAD to stay with the man I lost my virginity to.
I hope youre doing good now. I wish you the best.
I am like you right now. It's so painful. Good to know that you are right now. This almost took my life and still feeling like a piece of gum
Exactly!
@@maevemavel20That is absolutely ridiculous. You are not a piece of chewed up gum.
To Josh Harris i would like to say I think it is amazing that you are taking steps to try to undo the hurt your book caused but you can't blame yourself. You were a child, a product of your education and you acted out what you had been taught.
Why don't they have purity rings for guys??
They do. I knew a guy in high school that wore one and because the purity movement wasn't a mainstream thing in my country everyone would ask what it was.
The hypocrisy of these pastors.🤮🤮🤮🐖💨💨 Is obvious and sickening... Think for🤝👐🌟🔥💯 yourself... always.
As long as everything is consensual and hopefully safe, let people do what they want! Let people enjoy their bodies my goodness.
Teen pregnancies and the risk of sexually transmitted infections really do worry parents. When my much younger cousins were young and not just much younger than me sometimes my aunt would complain that my cousin's girlfriend was moody. I would look at my aunt and say maybe she is pregnant. If I wanted her to crash her car I would have said it while she was driving. She hated when I said that. lol
@@seanwebb605 That's where the stupidity comes in. Comprehensive education would lessen teen pregnancies even more than abstinence education. But many extremist Christians don't want that because somehow knowledge is Satan's way of getting to the children. *eye roll*
@@seanwebb605 you can’t teach abstinence, it doesn’t work. Instead teens need sex education, porn dangers education, std education, condoms, birth control, self-esteem education such.. they need to be taught that whoever they have experimental sex with, they probably wont marry, and virginity is not “taken” from them. The first time is not the most special sexual encounter of their entire life and saving doesn’t purify them in any sense. 💁🏼♀️ cut out all the lies and bs, and simply educate.
@@knowledgechannel7518 I never suggested abstinence first or abstinence only sex education. Now you have put in all sorts of your own politics into what you think a sex education program should include. You're not responding to my post. You're barfing out everything you think society should value in sex education. Your post is pretty much irrelevant to anything that I have posted.
No one is saying that you can't enjoy your body. The whole point of waiting until marriage is to protect children. When you have sex outside of marriage, you are putting your own physical desires above the life of an innocent child. That is selfish.
Never went full on into the "purity" thing as a teenager, but I did believe in no sex before marriage for quite a long time. Tossed that to the wayside when I found the person I wanted to marry, and we've been together for 10 years, married almost 8. As someone who's seen both sides of this, I get the logic of waiting to have sex because of the potential physical or emotional consequences, but not because of religion anymore. If you know you're going to be with someone for the rest of your life, what does a piece of paper matter? People should feel comfortable expressing their love to each other, and the idea that someone is better because they haven't had sex just doesn't make sense. As a woman, I can't say I'm a fan of the misogyny in many parts of the purity movement, either.
it was never about a peice of paper it was about getting gods permission to fuck and i found that waiting indeffinately until the wedding night builds and impossible expectation. The first time is supposed to very underwhelming. only with time experience and practice does it get any good if you want to wait until marriage which can be mid to late 20s (when age begins to take away from it) then you only setting yourself up for failure. thats what the church does and more so they tell you if it aint the best moment of your entire life then its because of your sin. Fuck with people mentally and youll control them.
What infuriated me when I told a few people at college that I was still a virgin at the time when I was 19. The problem was that I was living in North Florida and it was during the time of the Purity Movement and these people were members of this group since Middle School so they were still kinda reeling in from their teachings. They looked at me and told me nice things about being a virgin, but what pissed me off about it was that being a virgin was not by choice and it felt like I was being complimented in the most condescending way.
Thank you for this piece!
I feel so bad for all of the weak-minded guys who don't have the ability to control their thoughts, and actions, because of what a young woman decides to wear. It must really be hard (no pun intended) to go through life being so weak. I do hope they somehow find the strength to make it another day.
it's not about being weak-minded
It's about the weakness of the flesh. Men are inclined to struggle with it more than women which is why modest dress is important. 1 Timothy clearly speaks of this.
@@camerongage1237 Thank you. This is the only sane comment I've seen on this video.
@@beautifulllstars I'd hardly call it "sane," because all he did was quote a Bible verse that isn't even really true to begin with, despite what you may think.
Before the "birth control pill' that was the norm for most girls. Yoing men were told " if you get a girl pregnant you have to marry her and provide for her and the child for the rest of your life."
I am glad this was uploaded to RUclips. Some nowadays may deny this ever was so.
Thank God I wasn’t raised in this sickening, repulsive movement and that those close to me were 100% open and honest about physical/emotional development, as well as the risks and rewards of sex.
While I think abstinence is total bullshit, I also don’t necessarily believe in waiting until I’m married; rather, I simply want to wait for the right woman, which doesn’t necessarily translate to marriage. I want it to be an expression of a deep, physical and emotional bond between us, not simply to get my rocks off.
I know people who grew up in “purity culture“, and the stories they’ve told are beyond sickening. I will never understand why boys and girls are held to different standards in that culture, nor why it’s always men giving girls these “purity rings“; do they want these girls to save themselves until marriage? Or, are they secretly, (or often not so secretly) fantasizing about having sex with these girls and wanting them to save themselves for them, whether the girls are grown women or not and regardless of whether or not the girls give their consent?
I went to a whole purity retreat titled ‘ The Bride Wore White’ in 2001,at age 11. Looking back it was full of awful messages to give young girls.
I'm shocked people are just now realizing this? I don't know, I'm black and I always just saw it as some pedo type thing.
I grew up in the culture. It wasn’t until my mid twenties i realize how messed up it was. I’m shocked in 2021 some still believe the purity message is something they need to push on their daughters.
@@kristenk214 It's obviously a form of control. Fathers want to control their daughters because they know the power they wield in society. A woman is so free to do whatever. But men need women and makes them insecure.
@@zobrombie9554 - I can kind of understand why some people didn't realize how messed up it was. I went to a number of different churches as a kid, since my mom wasn't religious enough to steer me in one direction or another. So I was exposed to evangelicalism, but the church I ended up going to on a regular basis was a Methodist (non-evangelical) church. The pastor there emphasized somewhat different beliefs. Namely that sinfulness wasn't a permanent condition and, regardless of someone's current actions, we should always try to help people as that is what Jesus did. Shame wasn't really part of the conversation. And, on top of that, there was a general expectation that sometimes, we would all sin. It was normal to fail. You should still try to obey God, but one or even many screw ups didn't turn you into a bad person.
So when I moved away and ended up going to evangelical churches and saw the purity movement in girls my own age, it went right past me. I already had my beliefs set by that Methodist pastor and the obsessiveness of the purity movement were antithetical to them. But if I didn't have that experience? Man, they'd have probably hooked me. I remember some sermons that were so heavily focused on sinful sex and how disapproving people were. The level of both peer pressure and pressure from adults would have been awful if I'd believed the way they did.
No human is really capable of being pure.
The Bible called for purity.
The impossibility of remaining pure further exalts the grace of God, the depravity of man and how sweet it is whenever a child of God desperate seek God's help.
The Holy Spirit's empowerment to do the impossible, to do what is according to the desire of His heart, further gives glory to the God Almighty.
So thankful I was raised agnostic and also lived in a town that didn't have a strong religious/cultish vein running through it.
I grew up in the '90s during the height of the purity culture movement. I was told I should wait until marriage to do anything sexual, because God had a special person for me that He wanted to share the rest of my life with. So, I did what I was told and abstained -- I repeatedly turned down dates, flirts or any other advances from girls, believing that someday I would find my soulmate and be rewarded for staying pure.
Now I'm a 46-year-old virgin and still waiting for that special person to come along...
The young man who was trying to stay pure was tortured by women who dressed immodesty and stood before them imploringly to relive him of his agony by not dressing in a way that enticed him. Since the mythical story of Adam and Eve, Adam is never blamed for his lack of self control. Eve was blamed for tempting him. Why is it that women are blamed for not controlling the sexual desires of men?
We need protections for those affected by cults.
@Smurfette Did It Lmao what
u rock retro report love u
Thank you!
I didn't even realize there was a book, I just got the message of it directed at me from all sides - peers, sunday school teachers, youth pastors, pulpit pastors, parents, family, church friends, etc. etc. etc. It wasn't until I started looking into why I'm having difficulties with sex that I knew this was a whole thing, and it was responsible for my internal shame and part of the package of my religious trauma and I was absolutely horrified. I was angry at Joshua when I learned about the book and it's role in what I was taught as a child and teen, but seeing his remorse and the steps he has taken to make amends helps. I can forgive him for what he did, but no amount of 'I'm sorry' will fix the damage he did. He unfortunately has to live with that, and that must be so miserable.
Back then: I won't ever engage in risky behavior because I don't want to catch a communicable disease. Now: I'm not wearing a mask. If this disease kills me, it just means God wanted me to die.
Spot on
Yeh! Perfect logic!
“A supernatural additive pollutes what is pure and precious in our species.”
-Dan Barker
What is pure and precious in our species is not “virginity.” It is our capacity for love, community, and empathy. So sad how many have it so twisted today.
I need a support group like this one.
YA KNOW i don't even know if i was swept into purity culture but i was big on no sex until marriage and that issue is that lead to me being sexually abused by 2 of my ex boyfriends.
I had no healthy relationship to sex and all that i was taken adtavange of and made to do sex stuff i wasn't into.
kinda wack that i never really think about this stuff
Sad, this Josh guy could have been a Republican celebrity and wrote many more books if he had doubled down on his mistaken beliefs about hurting women.
Please tell me you're trolling and you're not that fucking disgusting?
This was a great video. Always amazed by the excellent reporting you guys do at Retro Report. Talking about Purity Culture like this makes it easy for people who grew up forced into religion to see themselves in this documentary. I know some girls who got married as soon as they were out of high school just so they could have sex and live in loveless marriages but felt like it was the only way out. I feel like Purity Culture is also propagated by the conservative belief of marriage and the shame that puts on women who feel out of place in that system.
Having a purity movement seems strange. Having concerts devoted to purity is also strange. Stick to concerts worshiping Jesus. They turned the core message of Christianity, which is Jesus Christ, into be good and don't have premarital sex.
The funniest thing is that they also have a problem women that don't want to have sex. I'm acesexual meaning I don't experience sexuaI attraction and so don't want to have sex. I can't even begin to explain how badly I was ridiculed.
It’s because if a person’s on the sex repulsed or neutral end of the spectrum, it’s considered a betrayal of the commandment “be fruitful & multiply” unless you’re clergy/ordained. Being ace is a kind of secret advantage in purity culture until you get to your adult years and then people start wondering when are wedding bells going to go off, if they ever do go off. I identify as greyace and have been doing so since I was 19.
It took me my entire undergrad to figure out what were the remnants of purity culture & religion vs what I genuinely feel. In some ways, I’m still figuring it out. I do still get callouts of my aceness as an excuse to be a prude, immature, picky, or being afraid of men. And that’s just a small sampling of the ace phobia that occurs.
For those on this journey too, if ace sounds right to you in this moment, use it. Labels are a guide & a fluid spectrum, not a monument.
Yes. I'm ace too and this is relatable.
5:17 and Joshua Harris comment lingers even today in the inherent double standard of school dress codes, where females are punished for creating a distraction to the learning environment for their clothing choices more often than males.
They probably create more distractions.. apart from trans-themed stuff.
I had to sign one of those contracts in my public school. That was my sex education. They had three women from the three big different denomination churches come in and tell us about how if we had sex before marriage we would get an std and showed us a bunch of super scary photos and then had us sign those contracts. We also got free tshirts that said "ABSTINENCE ROCKS!" lmao it was so dumb. I basically had to get a sex education from other kids my age because that was my schools education and my parents took me to a church that taught abstinence so I didn't know who else to ask.
And to be honest why was a teenager have a clue about something he never have?
That's what I always wondered. How does anyone believe a 21 year old about relationships and sex? They know nothing.
joshua harris looks to me to be struggling with latent homosexuality . I say this as a 70 year old ex christian married for 30 years to a woman and i had many homosexual sexual experiences as a boy and then lived my entire adult life in a state of confusion and great spiritual pain
I always thought that it was odd that Protestant evangelical Christian churches put so much emphasis on Joshua Harris’ book, when he was obviously just a teenager or young adult himself, and could not possibly be qualified to give relationship advice, or to advise parents on how to raise and guide their children through puberty (when he had obviously never raised any children of his own). It was odd to give such a platform to such an obviously young and inexperienced young leader. After all, didn’t the Apostle Paul himself warn against making a young and inexperienced person into a church elder (1 Timothy 3:6)?
I think, after watching many of these kinds of videos, is that the main problem with the so-called “purity culture” of the 90s was the complete lack of any mention of God’s grace for the fallen. That is the problem with anything “legalistic”: the discussion inevitably revolves around the obligations and duties of a “good” Christian, without any discussion of grace or mercy for those who are struggling (and we all are struggling, as there is no one who is without sin, and we all therefore need grace). That’s where the toxic shame comes from. Simply discussing law without a balanced discussion of the concept of grace is NOT the gospel, and is therefore not a Christian message.
“Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”
~Hebrews 4:16 (NKJV)
What a world we live in. Pushing the narrative that children are sexual beings and should not be taught to abstain as this hurts feelings.
We need to stop this madness and stop sexually abusing children, making them believe they are victims if they were taught morality.
I'm 34 and I have dated men in their 40s who believe this crap. When they would say something sexual to Mr I could tell that they were uncomfortable and felt shame like they were doing something wrong.
If you don't try the shoes on before buying how can you be sure they're gonna fit? Purity nonsense!
Because sex is the act of procreation. People need to take that more seriously.
@@beautifulllstarsBut sex is also for pleasure. Maybe learn not to judge others, like God told you guys not to, instead of trolling.
I get the fack that parents want the best f their children. However, they must understand they are not pets they are sexually beings. And, a persons worth is not based apon if they are a virgin or not. Yes, I see the point to hold out till committing to aviod hurt and unwanted ties and pregnancy s. Now what happens if marriage fails than what or y partner if an awful lover, abusive, or does not want y then what?
This is sick.
Religion, the root of all evil
The real problem is a marriage obsessed culture! Pushing young people into marriage too early results in the subsequent high divorce rate.
Wow, an interesting history...
Unfortunately it's living history. It is controlling and manipulative and many of us still struggle with the programming they forced on us.
Someone's sexuality is no-one else's business!
What if you didn’t find someone to marry.
how difficult is it for a woman to handle the same stuff? this video makes me so angry when I hear people put it all on women. so disgusting.
is that the jonas brothers?
What a ridiculous concept. It's totally inhuman
How do we heal from this. This is how patriarchy controlled women and since patriarchy is breaking all their lies and evil ways are being surfaced. Purity culture is based on ego, shame and judgment, its not Godly. Its evil
Does anybody else have Vaginismus?
It's been the social norm in the US for generations , nothing new
My family was very against purity culture and very pro-sexual knowledge so not only would we not be taken advantage of or walk into physical relationships blind. Virginity wasn't a personality concept cause just like someone who has never ridden a roller coaster and then does they aren't a whole new person after they are a person who experienced something new and as long as you are being smart and safe with the possible emotional and physical aspects then sex can be a wonderful thing. Sending people into it blind ignorant and afraid is a recipe for disaster.
jonas brothers?!?! yeah dont think they did that
purity movement. lol murica you're so funny
Purity culture is works.
Imitation Christianity.
Faith is not what modern day preachers say it is ( if they even mention it at all).
This conversation is wrong. Chastity is a goal. Growth in virtue is a calling
That movement hasn’t really reached to the urban community, their were Highschool pregnancy🤰 unmarried motherhood, and more dumb kids
So, Josh Harris started MGTOW basically?
trump their pin up is a good example of purity aint he? That video of him and epstein is funny.
I always thought the world would be better off if sex didn’t exist. Just think, no one is sexualizing anyone’s bodies. Also, if we abandoned sex, humans would start doing a lot better than they are right now. The world would probably be a lot better place without sex.
For example, sex ruins nudity since many people think that sex and nudity are always linked together. Because of sex, people always think nudity is sexual (when not all nudity is sexual). People tend to lump nudity and sex together as being inseparable. This is far from true, and one of the main reasons so many people are against nudity to begin with. The concept of nudity in itself isn't sexual. In a world without sex, people’s anxiety with being naked goes away, body image issues would go down because everyone would be so comfortable with their body. What a life that would be...
Nudity is natural, while sex is not natural.
Um, sex is natural. You wouldn’t be here without it.
I got around to reading Harris' book. I felt that it would have been better for him to wait until he was an adult to start dating. He should have focused on other things than pretending he did not want to date. I felt that the only way he expressed his religious views was telling everyone he waited until he was married to have sex. Christianity is more than about staying pure.
The purity movement has some positive things. Most parents do not want their 14 year old daughter or son having multiple sex partners. Sleeping around is not emotionally healthy for most people. Boundaries should be made between two people who are not committed, not just sexual ones. If marriage is someone's ultimate goal, don't date someone longer than a year who won't pop the question.
The guy is a narcissist .
Purity cukture demeans you.
Nothing like studying theology to destroy faith
Nothing like getting out of the same narrow box you've been living in your whole life and finally realizing how destructive and harmful iti is.
I can't say what the difference was growing up in the 70s and 80s. We just took God at His word. If God said wait until marriage, then wait until marriage - enough said. If you mess up, God forgives. All of you from the '90s and '00s must have experienced something else. I can't understand why anyone would have so many hang ups over practicing abstinence until marriage. I certainly feel for anyone who believes they have been hurt or abused. I just don't understand how practicing abstinence makes someone feel that way. Feel free to help me understand. What am I missing here?
Human biology. Empathy.
James, I grew up in the 90s, but I feel the same way as you. Our culture is becoming increasingly sexualized, and we are straying further from family values. I think that's a huge part of it.
@@beautifulllstars you mean YOUR ideas of "family values". Which includes sexual shame and guilt over something so natural that's apart of human nature. The very thing that makes families lol. Specifically shame and guilt on young girls.
@@ashleyspurling5701 There is nothing shameful about sex, unless you do it outside the context of marriage (i.e. creation of a family). This concept is firmly rooted in biology. Also, shame and guilt are not bad if they help you make better choices in life.
@@beautifulllstars then it's a good thing not everyone believes the same as you do cause not everyone wants to be married or be a breeding machine. And they have a right to own their sexuality without shame. And yes there is something fucked up in shame and guilting people into choices YOU believe are right. Those are not family values. Only of a backwards narcissist.
I have a totally different view on this. It seems that Klein blames all of her problems on her past upbringing, but I feel that it is really her. If sleeping around makes you feel like a terrible person, don't sleep around. I have seen too many people who give everything to someone who was not committed to them and ended up very hurt. Take your blinders off and learn to say no.
I think you missed the message. There are people who got married and then sleeping with their spouse made them feel like a terrible person. Do you expect married people to never sleep with each other again? If you’re anorexic, and food makes you feel terrible, does that mean you should just stop eating? I think she’s pointing out that purity culture just isn’t good for girls. And it should stop.
You completely misunderstood the video to the point I don't that you actually attentively listened to it. Nobody in this video is talking about "sleeping around". They are talking about sleeping with their husbands, people who are in committed loving relationships. They are unable to because of the traumatic programming they were raised with. If an ideology that was forced on you as a child prevents you from being intimate with your spouse, something is wrong
Oh I read her book and she mentions how guilty she felt having sex with her boyfriend because they weren't married. Of course she blamed the purity movement.
Now she is feeling guilty about having sex with her husband and once again blames the purity movement.
I assumed everyone read her book. I still stand by my statement. She needs to take personal responsibility for her actions instead of blaming all of her problems on the purity movement. The people who are giving her a platform, obviously have an agenda.
@@judyheller8814 yeah I think for many of us our agenda is wanting to have sex with our spouses without physical pain. It's not a coincidence tbat so many women in this age bracket with this specific background have the same symptoms of trauma that you'd see in victims of sexual abuse or rape.
@@dmn4747 The purity movement's message was good, but the way it was carried out was not. Klein now says everything in the purity movement was negative and she is a forever victim of it.
Christianity has always left me with more questions than answers, specially the American Christianity.....
It's not like people want to be anything but nice to one another, but it's simply a great sin to have sex out of marriage in almost all religions of the world. so unless you don't believe in God, you can't really blame anyone (specially your parents) for not letting you have it your way and support everything you do, specially a thing so fundamental and with long lasting consequences to humans as sex is.
And being holy in unholy times is becoming a crime and continuously more difficult these days it seems.
I was waiting for a good point to take away out of this video to maybe make me a better man in the future and make my decision making easier if I ever had children, but I only got vague words about subjective experiences blamed on an anonymous evil entity that spreads pain and suffering......
and the comments section is just something else!!
Yeah it's peoplefinally waking up to the truth of how damaging purity and religion are.
@@ashleyspurling5701 I liked your unconscious choice of words (purity and religion), but I guess this "impure, and unreligious" world you're so desperately trying to reach will show you what real damage means sooner or later
@@majd_shoots I've been try damaged by religion and purity culture for years. Probably will never be able to fully heal from the physical mental and emotional damage it's caused, but since leaving it all behind I've felt true happiness and love. So say what you want from your sad narrow mindset, but me and others like me who suffered for it know the truth.
@@ashleyspurling5701 I'm sorry for what you've been through ma'am, and I didn't question it or played it down in anyway.
But subjective personal experiences can never be a method of measurement EVER, specially not in a comprehensive thing such as religion which is a complete lifestyle.
And because the same method can be used to suggest that "unreligious and impure" lifestyles made some girls' lives miserable, and almost led some of them to end their lives, and some would never heal from the abuse as well, which lead them to seek refugee in religion, and now they live in peace.
Wouldn't that be a good "subjective" evidence to prove that religion is a good thing?
trying to uncomplicate something as broad as religion is almost impossible.
From my religious prospective, and if I remember the story in this video correctly, what I hear you saying here is: (why didn't my family/community/etc just watch me walk my way to hell and tried their best to stop me from slipping in this life even if it caused me to hate them forever?, Why did their love for me exceeded this life and their hearts ached for me so much they had to choose hard things as a last resort?, and why couldn't they just be supportive and clap me along as I indulged in everything they so firmly believe it will lead me only to the bottom of hell eventually for exchange of my love for them and emotional stability?).
Ma'am, if you had a child and he/she was trying to jump off a building, and no matter what you said or tried to persuade them with, it just didn't work in stopping them, wouldn't you just jump and grab him/her by force? Wouldn't you even smack the shit out of them and tie them up if they still tried to resist you?, This is how religious parents feel when they see you going on a wrong path at a young age.
Everything sits on a spectrum of right and wrong, and no one answer is ever enough for a life time of choices, but unless you can somehow manage to objectively and undisputedly prove that religion and virtuous lifestyle as a whole is wrong and leads to demise and chaos, and that humans were created only to do the things "that make them feel free and happy", then you have nothing to say about this woman, her family and even her community to be honest.
I hope you a fulfilling recovery from your scars, and a lovely rediscovery of life in its true meaning
please take care ✋🏼
@@majd_shoots I really appreciate your comments, and I've enjoyed reading them. Thank you. 😇
The message of Biblical purity is correct. God created sex not man and it has to be enacted the way He commands. The method they used to disseminate (from what this video shows) was the problem.🇨🇦
Not everyone believes in your God or particular religion. And you have no right to enforce those beliefs on others.
Purity is in the heart.
Purity is total nonsense. Use birth control, enjoy sex! Enjoy your body. It's a gift
Not really. That's kind of a meaningless sentence
Yes purity is in the heart not between legs. Sex is beautiful and natural
For thousands of years across cultures, girls have been taught to remain virgins until marriage. Christianity has, throughout the centuries, taught both men and women to abstain from sex until marriage. It is a part of Protestant teaching, Roman Catholic Teaching, Eastern Orthodox teaching. It comes from the teaching of the Bible.
How many of these women who felt shamed, which they blame on the purity movement, fornicated? Did any of them wait until marriage and experience intense shame? Maybe they experienced guilt because they were doing something they knew to be wrong.
And it makes perfect sense to abstain and for society to think we should abstain. Before the 60's, there wasn't very effective birth control. If a woman has sex with a man and has a baby, then the baby is raised without a father in the home. Even today, birth control is not 100% effective. I've read that condoms are 92% effective. They can break or come off, also. Having sex has a chance of producing a child. Then the woman might be encouraged to kill the baby to prevent having to raise the child on her own. Or she might tell the father, if she knows which guy it was (if she's really been sleeping a lot around she might not know). Based on the stats, children raised without a father in the home are disadvantaged in terms of chances of getting involved in crime, being runaways, performance in school, getting pregnant as a teen, etc.
Many people hold to a philosophy that says I can do whatever I want with my own body and my temporary emotional and physical pleasure is way more important than whatever effect it may have on whatever children I might have.
I was probably in another country for much of the 'purity movement' and there are some things I have heard about that I don't care for-- signed pledges, purity balls. Virginity does not equal the value of the individual either. I am not sure if they actually taught that. Women who have been raped should not feel blamed for it. I haven't read Joshua Harris' book, but it seems like he might have had a better sense of things when he was younger than now. His book was probably a bit too extreme on dating.
Your viewing the world today as if we are the same people as back thousands of years ago in primitive backward societies. Yes girls were virgins til marriage in those times. Guess what happened if she wasn't? She was killed for it. If she was raped, she was forced to marry her rapist (your Bible says that). Secondly, they were getting married the moment their hormones were kicking in. Also you can't force the ideas of a religion that others don't believe in on them just cause you think its the only way. I have seen plenty of other videos of young women damaged by purity culture and how it made a mess of their marriage. How they waited till marriage for sex and regretted it.
@@ashleyspurling5701 We have a pretty messed up society when it comes to marriage, sexuality, etc., inferior to many past societies in a lot of ways. Home life for a lot of children is unstable. You shouldn't apply your snobby ethnocentrism to the topic of marriage and assume past societies were more 'primitive' and backward.
If a woman were discovered to have lost her virginity before marriage and was married off as a virgin, which implies probably some deception on her part, she could be.... quite justly.... executed in such a case. Adulterers could also be executed. There had to be witnesses before an execution could take place. Modern societies that place no emphasis on virginity and do not value abstaining from adultery are in the wrong and have a skewed concept of morality.
The rapist was obligated to marry an unbetrothed virgin he raped, but the obligation was on his part, not on her side. Her father would make the decision, and he could decline to give her in marriage in this case. Like you said they probably married around the time the hormones were kicking in.
@@SaudaraLink the fact that your justifying being forced to marry a rapist and being killed for not being a virgin shows the only morally skewed person here is you. Yes if she didn't get forced to marry her rapist by her father then she would have to become a nun basically and live in celibacy. My original comment still stands. You have no right to enforce your snobby backwards misogynistic ideas on others. Doing so has caused so much suffering to many girls as this video and hundreds of others hete have shown. And my life is a personal account of it as well.
@@ashleyspurling5701 I haven't heard of Jewish or Hebrew nuns. She still could have married. The obligation was on the part of the rapist, but it wasn't up to him if he married her.
@@SaudaraLink you clearly skipped parts of the Bible you didn't like. It was fully up to the rapist. And I never said there were any Jewish nuns. I said she basically became one as in she can never marry or have sex ever after being raped. She was considered dirty and defiled. Which is the exact same mentality of purity culture today.
Imagine thinking that norms of millennia is bad. 🤣
Something is not correct just because it is tradition. Everything must be examined and assessed on its individual merit.
There's nothing "toxic" about waiting until you are in an emotionally and financially stable relationship to possibly conceive of a child (i.e. have sex). Not everything is about us, our mental health, our sexual liberation, self expression, etc. The life of that child is worth more than any pleasure or fulfillment you could ever receive from sex. If you want to have sex, then you must deal with the consequences. It's simple cause and effect, and you have no reason to complain.
That's why there are hundreds of birth control options to prevent such things.
@@ashleyspurling5701 Right, but that doesn't absolve you of the consequences should you get pregnant.
@@beautifulllstars there are options for that too. Especially for girls like me with health issues such as mine. Hard to explain the science of it but long story short, if I try to give birth, I will die a very painful death.
@@ashleyspurling5701 Then you should not have sex.
@@beautifulllstars because I can't get pregnant I should live my life like a nun? Lmfao. That's some misogynistic bull-fucking-shit.
It was a moral teaching to protect young teens from sin by millions of them to make a personal promise to our Father in heaven but as always every thing good and moral is attacked by sinful people the other part was they were to use the bible and let it teach how a boy becomes a husband and a girl becomes a wife and it is always taken out of it's text living by our Fathers life is verry hard it is that way to make you spirituality stronger to face the sins of the flesh . Childern are bombarted for at least 12 hrs a day by sins of the flesh by all media libral groups pear presher ! it is wrtten idel hands and minds are the devils pay things it's 1000 times better then abortion or having over half the coumtry infected by a STD or ADIS That is why we have so many youth not going or beliving in God if they say he is real then his laws are real one thing i know its worth living by his will .
There is no such thing as god.
You wanna be single? Sleep around... Fine🙄
But don't get married & start a family.
You have no right.
Every kid deserves a clean mother & father, regardless of religion 🙏🏻
Guess how children are made?
Shame is good and harlet's should not be set as an example
Yes, you are correct!
'Harlots' do not really exist, just like 'whores', 'sluts', 'bitches', 'ladies' and 'good girls'' don't exist. Only women exist.
I have no shame in my sexuality
Right? Men should not be sleeping around with women, until he is married.
Again this comes down to men wanting to control women PERIOD
Finally, a person with a brain.