To Edge, or Not to Edge? Should you buy the Edge variants of the Celestron Schmidt-Cassegrains?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Are the Edge versions worth the extra money? Let's find out!
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I think I clicked on the wrong video.
yeah... this guy doesnt even mew :steamlaughcry:
@@sal-1337bye bye! 🤫🧏♂️
@@user95395 icewhore starts playing
I wanted the 9.25" NexStar Evolution, but after seeing your video on the 9.25 I decided that at my age I didn't need the extra weight. A few pounds makes a difference for me. So I started looking for a NexStar Evolution EdgeHD 8". And I couldn't find one. So I started calling around and I found a vendor who said they had an open box one and offered it to me. For $700 off. This was May 2022. At the time the NexStar Evolution 8 was selling for $2,199 and the Edge version was selling for $2,949. $700 off brought it down to $2,249, $50 more than the non-Edge version.
When it arrived it was in the original box. The mounting shoe for the RDF and StarSense were already on it. Nothing was missing. If it was out of collimation, I can't tell. And everything on it works fine. I suspect it was used as a floor display model, or maybe for training the store staff on it. I don't know, but I feel like I got a great deal.
Very useful comparison Ed. I've recently got a good deal on a 925 standard SCT. I couldn't justify the hike up to the Edge and I'm tending to target Galaxies and planets(as I have refractors for the other stuff) mainly so happy with this. Whichever model people go for I must say I've been mighty impressed by this tube and your earlier 925 review played a decent part in my choosing this specific size SCT. I've also been impressed by how well it holds collimation.
Cheers Ollie.
im wanting to use a hyperstar and can not see any benefit with an edge HD
The results are closer than I would have expected. Great review.
I'm not an astrophotographer yet, but I've got the bug! I took your advice and found an edge offered at a discounted open box price. Can't wait until it arrives.
Nice review... that extra 5% cost a lot :)
I image with an Edge 8 and have been very pleased with the results. If I were to pick up another SCT for viewing/or planet imaging.. I would also go with a non Edge. CS!
It's waaaaay more than extra 5%.
While optically there's no difference due to focal lengths and FoV's involved that can't be chalked up to coatings, photographically - a standard SCT is completely useless with anything larger than micro 4/3" sensors. If he's cropping down to a tiny RoI in the middle of the sensor, of course there's gonna be little difference directly in the optical path.
In full frame terms, t's a difference between having 25% of usable to foV and ~70%.
@@TheKain202 Sure.. but this was optically speaking. Very few telescopes can do real justice to a full frame sensor. Many may illuminate a 44mm circle but the stars around the edges are not good. Even the FSQ will struggle unless you forgo the reducers. The Edge 8, which I use won't support a full frame either.
I prefer to edge. It's way more satisfying, and lasts a lot longer too!
Very interesting thanks!! Would also enjoy seeing comparos with RC designs etc.
Great video, Ed! Thanks for posting. On a totally unrelated note, what do you think of Unistellar's eQuinox's telescopes?
Thank you for the review!
Great video Ed. I have a question about the C8. How does the current C8 you tested here with the Edge compare to a C8 from the 80's with star-bright coatings. Has much changed with the current generation of C8 (non edge)???
Ed, great video, as always!. Please consider making some recommendations on how to go about choosing good eyepieces.
Without spending a lot of money, I think the Svbony eyepiece set with the red rings are really good. Add to that a Baader zoom with the barlow and you've covered a lot of bases. Just my thoughts after having already spent too much money. 😅
In the grand scheme of things, the cost difference between the Edge and standard version of the C9.25 isn't as huge as initially shown.
I own my C9.25 (bought used) and a used HEQ5 mount (I know that's inadequate, but I am doing only visual and planetary). Going for DSO is another ballgame, and I guess that I should get a better mount and guider and control of it before I proceed with DSO imaging (or even better, work with a refractor like my 102ED)
Very nice Review. I own a Standard C8 and after some tries with DSO Imaging i just use it for Lunar and planetary imaging. Did you use flatteners with both Imaging rigs?
What focuser do you use? I will say 0.63 reducer + moonlite motorized focuser will edge the edge.
Thanks, Ed--Really helpful video. I'm considering picking up an 8" Celestron SCT and am weighing base and Edge models. Any thoughts on whether a reducer (like Celestron's own or the Starizona f/6.3) can cost-effectively narrow the gap between the two?
Those inexpensive .63 reducers usually make the image worse. There's no free lunch, especially at $149. If imaging is in your future those things also have the tendency to reduce the image circle. But on the other hand they are cheap and most SCT owners wind up buying them anyway.
@@edting I know I did!
You give off such strong college professor vibes, I bet you teach physics.
It's the opposite! I teach English Comp and Creative Writing. Both of those disciplines come in handy here, more than you might think.
Can u show astroimaging on the fork mount version? I want to but a fork mount because it’s assemble but I want to do astroimaging in color.
Does celestron make better telescopes then lesser known brand telescopes. Is a celestron 114mm reflector better than a Coleman 114mm telescope or Tasco or telmu 114mm telescope?
Its only when you go down the Huoerstar route.does the Edge start to.make sense. From what I've seen to date.
You didn't mention mirror locking and cooling vents.
Hyperstar is another video or two in itself! I'm curious, does anyone know for sure if any of the various base models ever had the mirror lock? There have been so many minor variations.
@@edting I should have said Faster rather than be brand specific
But look forward to a video Ed
@@edting I have a very recent model 925 SCT only a year old and there's no mirror lock so I don't think so.
@@edting My Evolution 9.25 does not have mirror locks but, it has the Fastar removable secondary. Thanks for doing this video. It's the one I was waiting for.
Yeah, I edge
i only came here to comment about the title
Nice
Waiting for Ed to review a Planewave…
There's a .7 meter PW at Philips Exeter about 45 miles from here. I might be able to arrange to get some time on it.
Dunno what that is but 0.7m? That's gonna be good!
@@edting Ha! I just stumbled on Exeter’s observatory set-up while looking for something else this afternoon….pretty sweet! If you need an assistant…….; ) Cheers, Scott Badger
OK now I am depressed thanks.... Best to buy a nice printer download NASA photos and get some nice frames. Save over $10k right off the bat and you can stay in the A/C without bugs or rain.
Yes, you could do that! On the other hand, there is a palpable sense of wonder and excitement at seeing something live, at photons that may have traveled millions of light years just to land on your eyes, that no photograph could duplicate.
Not what I thought he meant by edge
Seems to me one could edge and use their telescope at the same time
Always edge, fellas.
You are by far the best telescope reviewer on RUclips. Hands down. Thanks...
Edging is so 2023 gooning is the new meta
so true
buying the goon version rn🗣️🗣️🔥
@@newcinema4931 Celestron is teasing a Rizzler 11EdgeHD Pro Max🗣🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥💯💯
This title is an extremely naughty double entendre. And here I was thinking you a man of unsullied values ;)
The algorithm knows i really REALLY like telescopes
I always give “edging” a thumbs up 👋
Looking at the comparison images, i couldn't justify the extra $1500.00.
Always edge
6:25 the Edge images seem inferior in contrast-but I should ignore image brightness. At 6:31 there is vignetting. I’m not disagreeing, but have just read the Edge White Paper. As a user of vintage EQ manual Celestrons, a Classic 8 and superb 1970s Orange tube C5, my understanding was that Celestron had redesigned the SCT to become finally on-par with our computer designed >80 degree AF oculars of 2024. I started out with 0.96 inch Kellners and Orthos-Celestron believes they were fine on-axis for my vintage scopes when they were made. Finally, when 65 years old, I want a computerized SCT with best possible off-axis optical performance, for simple visual use… and the Edge design seemed to promise that, right when money isn’t as critical as it used to be. I guess you’re proving my old eyes could never differentiate an Edge from a standard tube when using my old vintage Naglers, Panoptics and Tele Vue Wide-Fields? Anyhow, I still prefer the Edge, but thank you for a wonderful review-I’ve subscribed & Liked :-)
Wouldn't it be nice if they made a Celestron C6 Edge ?
😭
I think that if you had the same coatings on each the images would be more comparable. The edge is a fine scope for sure, but the new coatings on the standard make a huge improvement on the light presented to the eye or the camera from my experience. The edge is not worth it to me.
If you are on no fap.
It’s best not to edge.
your videos are a wealth of information. thanks. new fish here.
Thanks, I try not to waste your time.
Hahahahaha amazing. Edging is easy to learn but hard to master boys. Don’t take it lightly.
It is also worth noting that the starizona f/6.3 reducer for the standard sct is really good at reducing coma. After getting that reducer, I have no desire to upgrade to the edge series.
The understanding is that adding a focal reducer/field flattener to the standard SCT is the poor man's equivalent of the Edge HD.
@@jongroubert4203 ,I Wouldnt Even Want To Attempt To Put One On A Mount,Im Tiny,I Do Good With My 6se..But I Do Love The Optics In The 9.25❤️🔭❤️
@@PafMedic I just ordered a 6se! How do like it?
@@jongroubert4203 It's true if you want to shoot at f/10, but most of the time you want that reducer for the improved speed and FOV anyway. So it becomes a competition between the Celestron and the Starizona reducer. I would say celestron HD reducer one has better field illumination but suffer from more chromatic aberration.
@@myfishingadventures1509 Although the 6SE is a bit smaller than the Nexstar 8SE, I just returned it for a dual arm CPC800 XLT. With my 8SE when I tried to focus on Jupiter and Saturn with medium to high power, hand focusing was terribly shaky. In my opinion, with any single arm mount an electric focuser is just about mandatory. With the upgraded mount and electronics with the CPC800, it was a good upgrade that will provide a much better telescoping experience....
Raise your hand if you thought this video was about something else.
🖐️
Great video! I am a long time astronomer but new to astrophotography and have always wanted an 8 inch SCT but my dream scope was a 9.25. I had a choice between an 8 inch Edge or a non-Edge 9.25 and went with the 9.25. Since I am a fan of moon and planet astronomy I figured this would carry over with astrophotography but of course after a month I started dabbling with deep sky objects. The Edge is better but for my eyes (after some post) I can't tell that much of a difference. Of course my choice was weighted on the assumption that I would only be casually taking photos but as it turns out I haven't used an eyepiece in 6 months now (all EAA or imaging sessions). Knowing what I know now would I get the 8 Edge over the 9.25 SCT? No way I could give up the extra light collection with the 9.25! Side by side with both scopes being 9.25s with one being Edge and one not I would still make the same choice and buy the non Edge. I see a benefit with the upgrade but its not worth 1,000 dollars of extra cost. I agree with your assessment between the two models you reviewed.
How can you be a long time astronomer whilst being new to astrophotography?
Literally like 99% of astronomy either involves or is reliant upon astrophotography.
I edged to this! So intense! Thank you Ed(g)Ting!
Great video, Ed. I think you hit the nail on the head with this video. The gains are small, but if you're a hard-core imager they are worth it.
Unless you are into research and systematic documentation, keeping it simple is a good idea. When the gains become marginal and price tag is huge for that upgrade, it's better to stay away from it. That's my take
Thanks Ed! Before Meade discontinued the standard SCTs in favour of the ACFs, did you ever do a comparison between the 2?
I purchased this scope and after a couple months of waiting for a clear sky and learning how to use it, I finally saw saturn for the first time. It's such a surreal feeling that's worth every single penny.
I did have to send it back because I immediately broke it when it arrived. I tried using sky align during a cloudy night and the eye peice jammed against the tripod, which stripped the gears and ruined the threads on the thing where the diagonal screws into.
Ouch! I've also heard of people dropping the optical tube on the driveway the first time they take it out. They never even got to look through it!
I’d phrase the title and the first five seconds of the video differently. Great video Ed👍🏻
couldn't agree more, although being that ed is older i guarantee you he has no idea what we mean
Uhm... Space Phrasing!
My high school band director often used this analogy: a Corvette (for $50k) is about 96% of the car you want. But, if you're serious about it, you'll buy the comparable Ferrari for $200k. It's only 4% better, but if you're serious about it, it makes all the difference in the world.
Excellent review, Ed. That's something I've wondered about for a few years (actually C8 vs Edge HD 8"), and until now, could only compare written specs. Thanks for taking the time to make the head-to-head comparison.
That is a title...
I got to spend some time looking through the 14HD at RTMC 2009, Tom Johnson was even there. I was there with OPT.
The views were insane.
And yes, meade 3.25" plates wont go on celestron, but celestron can go on the meade. I have the jmi focuser from my c11, that was in a bag of parts that didnt get stolen, and when i got my 10" meade consolation prize replacement, I was able to mount the focuser on the meade to get the full aperture of the rear baffle, and the focuser also worked plugged into the lx6 base, and works throgh the hand paddle, win win.
The incompatibility is of course due to different thread pitch but the celestron pitch can go on the meade, but the meade pitch can bind up and jam on a celestron.
Most people use auto focusers now which makes the mirror locks obsolete. Saying that the best picture of mars I have ever seen was taken through a c14 with a 4x barlow which yielded a focal length just short of 20000mm and an old converted DSLR camera. On this occasion Mars was at its closest point to earth and the seeing conditions were almost perfect.
Seems it has a slight edge, worth 500ish? Not twice the cost. You always have problems with your Celestron mounts but I guess due to familiarity keep buying them. One thing about Celestron I don't like is their stuff looks plasticy and the mounts more so. If its a sign of what's inside engineering could be part of the problem. SkyWatcher makes a much better looking mount maybe its time for change? You might like the Sky-Watcher CQ350 for most of your scopes, maybe they should send you one to try, oh, and me one too.
My Amazon shopping cart is up to $5,000 on an SCT 1100 with star tracker, motorized focus, GPS module, etc. I don't see a non "Edge" option. 😮
One significant feature of the Edge models for astrophotography, which was not really talked about here, are the mirror locks. This is huge. Eliminating the mirror flop is not a small bonus, it is a game changing feature. Also, add to that the vents on the rear cell (which allow for fan mods) and between these two things, the price difference becomes well worth it. Taken altogether, the Edges are built from the ground up to purpose, they are imaging tools. But you are right Ed, serious imagers are kind of a breed apart, we will absolutely invest in small gains that might seem to non imagers to wasteful. But it's the culmination of those small gains that add up to result in better data, and better images. Most of the serious imagers that I know are chasing perfection. And it's chase that only makes sense once you start running :)
This is everyone who clicked on the video for an ENTIRELY different reason
👇
This is kind of a Ferrari/Lamborghini thing for me right now: I need something that works with public transit and/or a small car. Something this large requires lifestyle choices that don't suit me well.
Edging is ALWAYS more enjoyable than not.
And it's way hotter when your partner edges you!
Cge has flex points on the tripod, im sure on a pier it would do better. A g11 wouldnt shake like that with a 9.25.
Its more than just the price difference,,so do accessories for the edge. The reducer is a rediculous price, which adds even more.
For the standard 9.25, you can get the star Arizona reducer, and gives the same preformance as the edge and standard is still far cheaper.
I almost got the 8" edge, but ended up getting the standard 9.25" as it was still $200 cheaper than the edge 8" and a 9.25" will be better for planets and gather more light. Aperture rules when it comes to planets
Thanks Ed, always enjoy your video's. I have a Celestron Nexstar Evolution 9.25 which also has the StarBright XLT optical coatings. Would be interesting to see a comparison between the Edge and Evolution.
I love the Evolution for visual and just started taking photos with it. It's challenging with the Alt Az mount but if I keep the exposures short, 20-30 seconds it does a pretty nice job, or at least I think so.
Cant wait for the Sky-Watcher Goon series.
To really do the edge test, a 31 nagler, 41 pan, even a 55 plossl would be needed since the 35 pan doesn't quite get to the edge, pardon the pun, of the 2" field
I’m surprised the mirror lock’s didn’t stand out to you more.
Great comparison and conclusions. As always, many thanks! I settled on a base model 9.25 with my current focus on planetary photography. When I do get around to deep sky, I think I’ll just go for a faster apo refractor.
I have a base C9.25 that I bought off the used market for a scant $700 (CAD) few years ago. I use it strictly for visual on my Bresser Exos 2 mount, which still handles it just fine for visual use. Great scope. I'm still flabbergasted all these years later at the stonking deal I was able to get on it. It's a grey tube like the one in this video, but does have the newer Starbright XLT coatings, or at least the sticker on it says so. lol I'd definitely go with some smaller 80mm-127mm scopes on my mount if I did astrophotography with it though. The C9.25 is strictly visual for me.
C9.25 edge has a lot of hot pixel in it in the whirlpool galaxy M51.
🤷♂️ i keep rerunning tutorials on plate solving, where it pushes the picture off so many pixel to get rid of a bunch of hot and dead pixel.
Maybe it wasn’t called plate solving 🤷♂️ i am running loops on it.
Two comments here: you briefly mentioned the focal reducer. It's worth pointing out that the standard f/6.3 focal reducers are compatible with all of the base model Celestron SCTs (and I've used the Meade version on a Celestron and vise-versa without issue). But they will not work with the Edge models, and the Edge models each have their own specific focal reducer. The standard f/6.3 is a reducer/field flattener, but the Edge already has the field-flattening built-in, which is why the f/6.3 reducers aren't compatible.
The other comment was: when discussing the cost of AP you left out a big factor: the cost of aspirin/ibuprofen/acetaminophen you're going to need to take to deal with the headaches you suffer from dealing with AP. Added to that might also be the cost of professional counseling that you'll need when you finally lose all your marbles. :)
Thanks for the clarifications!
Oh my goodness Ed. This literally could not be more timely. I am, as we speak, debating on getting the 9.25" Edge, or standard version. So excited to watch!
I'd get the standard. No need to break bank. If you really need a sharp edge to edge images, get the starizona reducer. if you want to turn your c9.25 into an astrograph, get a hyperstar (which will turn it into a f2). if you're doing planetary and lunar, standard c9.25 is just as good as the edge
I use a standard but new C9.25 for AP and I really don't think I'm missing much, I also have a hyperstar, which if using that, the scopes are then exactly the same.
I wonder about the Edge against the ACF?
Thanks Ed. Great video.
Funny title thx, but it’s what I’m looking for
This didnt go where i thought it was. Interesting none the less though.
When are you going to ditch that cge for a G11? :)
I have both telescopes. But the 8 inch versions. I know the 9.25 inch version has better stars on the corners than the 8 inch version. Then the difference between SCT and HD version will not be big. But with the 8 inch telescope the stars from the corners are terrible and cannot be corrected even with the reducer. They are only round in the center of the frame. Whereas the HD version gives you round stars from edge to edge of the frame and that's the biggest advantage. However, the sharpness of the 8 HD version in the very center of the frame is weaker than the SCT version, which I saw from my tests. I recommend the SCT version to anyone who shoots with Hyperstar - 390mm F1.9 because then you have a flat field of view from corner to corner and the HD version to anyone who wants to shoot at high magnification from 1400 to 2000 mm for perfectly round stars from corner to corner of the frame.
Hey, thanks for that summary!
I think with the 9.25 Edge price you would have bought the C11, both are around 3K USD, and the normal 11" non-Edge is way much better than the 9.25 Edge one, in all aspects including deep sky imaging.
Should I upgrade my telescope from the 102 star sense to a better and what should I upgrade to (I’m not trying to do astrophotography)
Getting an 8" Dob is always a good idea!
I am sorry it is always more fun to be edgy.
the edge version is definitely a bust
Thank you so much for this review, Ed! This is EXACTLY the information for which I have been looking.
bro, this is... not what i thought the video was about.....
So that's an 200mm dob for me then! 😊
What is the name of your club?
price difference now is 250 : 350
There is one refreshing take-away here: if you have run-of-the-mill SCT at home, don't let anyone dissuade you from doing astrophotography with it! The Edge would be better, but while you set money aside just go out there and shoot! Thanks Ed!
8" reflectors seem to be the right weight to still get away with a much more affordable mount. Anything bigger gets so heavy suddenly the price of the mount also goes up exponentially too.
By the way, Mount Twilight I AZ from ES should pull such a pipe well. And it costs no more than $ 300.
I would love to see a comparison between the C 14 EDGE HD and the RASA 36, even though they are completely different telescopes.
I'd like to see that comparison too!
Make that a C 14 EDGE HD w/Hyperstar versus a RASA 36. One is a little less than 1/2 the cost of the other
😂
Where they join the modern world
May be me but I prefer the base images
I know nothing about telescopes, but this sounds like a jargon joke video.
...gives me FITS, bravo sir
What struck me is just how good the "basic" version is.
As someone who's just getting into this, what i tend to be curious about is why you would pay significantly more for the 9.25 Edge when it's only marginally larger than the 8" Edge. Jumping up to the 11" or 14" I get, even with the price hike, but to pay such a significant amount for an incremental gain of little more than an inch? What am I missing?
Good question. The reason to buy the 9.25 has nothing to do with its aperture. The 9.25 is a different design from all the other Celestron SCTs. Celestron isn't talking, but we do know the primary has a longer f/ratio, and there may be other changes as well. The 9.25 is a cult scope, and is my favorite mass-produced SCT of all time.
@@edting Ah, that explains it - paying nearly twice as much for that negligible bit of extra aperture just didn't make sense. Okay, so unless I missed it in among all your other reviews, you need to do one on the significant gain of going from the 8" Edge, which is what I was going to buy as a step up from the regular C8, to the 9.25! - now you've confused matters. :)
I only just found your reviews and am lapping them up as I try to stumble my way through the steep learning curve I'm on. I owned a basic reflector years ago, and now that I'm retiring would like to take up astrophotography as a hobby to supplement my lifetime of interest in regular photography. I really enjoy the manner of your knowledgeable presentations.
Hi, Ed, I thought long and hard about C9.25 vs. EdgeHD 9.25. In the end, I went with a C9.25, Baader Diamond Steeltrack (BDS) external focuser, and a Starizona SCT Corrector IV 0.63x focal reducer/corrector. I believe the C9.25 and Starizona SCT Corrector IV match up well vs. an Edge HD 9.25. I get consistently good astrophotographic results from this combination for Deep Space Objects. For planetary work I use the C9.25, BDS focuser, and a 2x Powermate. Honestly, I don't use the C9.25 at its base f/10 configuration for astrophotography. This is because I'd need to swap out the BDS' standard 2-in. ring clamp adapter for an M48 threaded adapter, and I'm just too lazy to do this.
I've got the smaller 8" edge. It's a truly lovely bit of kit, but after seeing this I may be having buyers regret. I don't do deep space objects, I'm more in to planets and the moon, which I'm guessing the cheaper version would do equally as well.
i hate coma so its worth it to me i have the 8" EDGE also and its nice to know stars will be nice at the edge when you do look at DSO`s in the future if you want to
I wouldn't fret too much, you are getting a better focusing system which helps even visually.
Yep, you need to get 14” edge!
"Deep sky imaging always gives me FITS"
Why yes, yes it does. :D
My pre-Edge C14 has mirror locks (2002). I've always been surprised at Ed's insistence on the CGE. I stay away from the mainland imports. I prefer Astro-physics 900 for C14 and Losmandy G11 for everything else.