A small and quick note on capture points vs defense points. Great players will keep the enemy from capping, by reading the minimap and defending the base way before the enemy even has the chance to start capping, whereas great players also know when it's time to cap and when it's time to not cap. And to be honest, the "I have to cap to win"/"I have to fake a cap to draw the enemy out" comes up way more than "I have to go home and reset to win" in some players' games. Me, Circon and Jingles included. That's at least my small take on it :) But I'm pretty sure Jingles meant a WHOLE lot more avg base pts than defense pts. Like 3 to 1
Weo I wanted to write something, but all words have lost their meaning when trying to describe how much I am in shock of how childish your comment is O_O
That was what I was thinking too. How can I get a lot of base defence points when I see players are heading to my base, and I move to intercept them so I either stop them from getting there, or don't give them a chance to build up base capture points in the first place. Or, you know that enemy tanks are going to your base, and you won't have time to reset them, so you go and capture their base instead. I haven't found it to be uncommon for games to end with 3 of our tanks having fought our way through one flank at the same time as 3 of their tanks have fought their way through their flank, forcing us to cap before they can.
for me, there are three reasons, and three reasons only to cap. 1. to take pressure off a flank by capping, and drawing the enemy back to defend their base, but only if the battle is going badly. 2. cap b/c you have to, other wise you lose the game 3. cap b/c there are only 1-3 enemy tanks left, there are 10 or so friendlies left, 7 or so of which are bearing down on the remaining enemy, and I know I won't make it there in time to land another shot on any enemies other wise i opt to kill them all
Except I would add the clause of not finishing the cap if your allies are about to kill them. It's just common courtesy, you'd appreciate it if your allies let you get the kill (and twice the exp they'd get for capping).
There's also strategic reasons to start capping. Say the left side of the map is being overrun by enemy tanks and your team is about to collapse, if you're in a medium or light that has broken through can drive into the cap diverting attention from the collapsing left flank giving the members of your team some breathing space. Not capping fully but as a distraction.
This made me go check mine, and it turns out I have exactly twice as much defends then invader points. But tbh I still don't feel like anything better then the average newb.. Wierd :P every time I see xvm has me at "above average" ... it crax me up :D
i once got a medal for not being spotted the entire game and cap the enemy base to 100% on my own. not sure what that medal is called. i felt so dirty afterwards lol. but yeah, was in some slow ass tank trying to keep up but the friendly tanks rolled over all enemies before i could even shoot, by the time i finaly reached the base all enemies where on the other side of the map. fuck this piece of shit tank, i'm gonna farm some looser points.... and got a medal for it haha. i think it was the duck tank. or some other low tier frenchy.
There are situations in which I *will* start to cap, even if victory looks certain. An example: Say I'm in something slow and useless, like an AMX40. I have battled my way slowly to the cap circle, our team is winning 14:9. Normally I'd hunt down that last tank, but if I look to my map and XVM shows that tank was last spotted several minutes drive away, I'm going to take the opportunity to scrounge a few extra XP and let the more capable tanks hunt down the survivor. You might call that selfish, and you'd be right, but what else am I supposed to do?
And I would not blame you, but this is more about those players that would not even attempt it even if they were driving something fast like a hellcat that was still on full health or would even bother to (temp.) stop capping to let others get some extra dmg in.
Capping isnt the thing to do most the time, but Jingles, this is directly from your profile Base Capture points 17,726 Base Defense Points 11,598 "If you show me a player with more capture points than defense points, I will show you a terrible player."
I know you probably wont read this comment Jingles but the good the bad and the ugly series was what first got me into this game! Your tank reviews led me to choose what tanks I was going to get! Hope you had great holidays and keep it up! The Mighty Jingles
Jingles, I have to hand it to you, you've struck absolute gold here! Not only the video is funny but you generated hilarious comments, too! :) One third is going nuts about their stats and mimimi about you doubting their awesomeness, one third is pointing out your overall def and cap stats while ignoring the recent stats that tell the story your way... and the last third is watching in delight... ^^ Awesome entertainment :)
Ugh.. the way circ drives that S-51 makes my feet curl.. on that same map, same spot, I drove my Bishop up the hill, turned towards the town, and then promply fell on my side and couldn't do anything until the enemy came for the cap and had a good laugh at the helpless arty...
Jingles you're being a bit harsh on people that have a lot of cap points relative to def points, I've got a ratio of 2:1 and still maintain an efficiency of 1540, I've just played a fair number of relatively slow tanks whereby travelling half way across the map to kill another enemy or two is neither viable nor worth the time investment. Granted, it can be selfish when other people are trying to finish people off, but frankly, the average player is usually so bloody incompetent that I'd rather just assume that no matter the odds, that they will fail anyway and, other than in extreme cases such as in those first two videos, take the safe option and cap. Naturally, this depends heavily on the situation, but a ratio of 2:1 is indicative of my average, and frankly, though its on the high side and probably does hurt xp/ game somewhat, I think such a ratio is perfectly acceptable.
There is big difference between capping and winning by cap. If you don't rob people of the exp still left with your capping then nobody cares if you cap. When i cap and we are clearly winning i usually write in chat, that i will let them finish the rest even if i have to go out of cap circle.
Peter Ludvig Well that's great and all, but I've been traumatised a few too many times watching like 7 of my team-mates that surround a couple of low health enemies miraculously manage to kill themselves. If I can't directly control something myself I don't take this risk, if that's selfish then so be it. Besides which, I was focusing more on his specific mentioning of a 1:1 ratio and that it can be used as a straightforward measurement of someone's skill, I'm sure there is some correlation in there, particularly at the extreme ends, but its not reliable to simply take a ratio, particularly quite a mild one like that, and blanket it across the player base.
I had well above 2:1 cap-def points and I was a Unicum with a 65% WR playing mostly solo pubs, so ya Jingles is a little off base here. Though I understand what he's trying to say, he just failed really hard at conveying it.
Jingles I have to disagree with what you said about heavies sitting in the cap, if it's a big heavy tank and maybe it's engine and track are damaged and the enemy or enemies are across the map why would you go for a kill and points you now you're not going to earn?
07:05 let's say I'm in my KV-3 (this has happened) with a damaged stock engine. The last enemy tank is on the other side of the map and I am currently right next to the flag (encounter). There is no way I will ever catch up to the 2 IS tanks racing across the map to kill the last tank. Is it okay then for me to sit in the cap and get a few extra points without winning the game by capping?
Yes, that's okay, since not only does it give you some exp (cap points and successfull cap) and an Invader medal, it also might give you the edge needed to get into 1st to 3rd place and any rewards given for that. If you can spot, damage or even kill that last tank, the exp is much better. Once I drove an AT 2 right into the enemy cap unopposed and won, but the only xp I got was from total team damage (which was low) since only a few tanks had died AND it was a x3 first win... never again.
I love how jingles defends the lemming train on porokova and feels that not defending against a cap blitz is somehow the enemies fault and not the fault of the morons who hid and lost to cap w/o even trying.
Jingles, you broke your promise. I've found quite a few people who are unicum level (and even above QBs level) who have more cap points then defense points. Don't lie to us :'(
A minor note on the 'sitting in the cap while you are ensured a win' situation; If you are in a slow tank, and you know the last survivor is across the map, and half of your remaining team is either already there, or are going to way before you get there, I can accept that you sit in the cap circle. As long as you don't actually win by capping, it's no different from just stopping in the middle of a field, because you don't want to do an insane rush towards someone you're never even gonna see. But at that point, why sit in the cap circle in the first place, and not just move out of it.. Other than that, I agree.
i couldn't really care less about my gameplay stats, I know I'm not that good at the game (still better than a lot of players out there) and yea, you can say I've "Failed my way to tier VII" but I don't care, I like the game, its a game and I just want to play for the fun! :)
I had a fun game at one point, where I was capping in my TOG II, and we had a bunch of heavies. KV-1S, M6 and 2 Pz. IVs alive. The last person on the enemy team was an M5 Stuart. ''stop cap'' ''don't cap'' until I got shot at, finally and the cap was reset. So I moved out of the cap. They searched for the M5 for around 4 minutes and then it was a draw. Denied them the win on purpose, as I did not get back into the cap.
Jingles as to your not hunting down the last enemy tanks when you are full health means you a bad player and say there's no excuse, I raise you t28, t28 prototype or t95 games on malinovka where the last couple enemy tanks are scouts up on the hill. My stats are good, but no I'm not gonna spend 10 minutes driving up there when they're gonna be dead in less than 2
If you're in a t28, t28 prot. or t95 vs 2 scouts you're pretty much boned if their IQ is in the tree-digits. If you stay at your base you can easily be outflanked and killed. Or they can go for the cap and when you kill one the other can hide behind the wreck. Or if you start capping they can go to your cap and win (happened to me in a KV with dead driver and damaged engine vs 2xSU26).
We wining 13 to 5.. im in t95 super hv american td. I get to enemy base and start caping. My tank is too slow to chace remaning enemy tanks. So im capping. There is nothing wrong with this. If necessary ill go out of cap circile when its reack 90%. If necessary ill cap and win the game for my team. But most of the players cant get it this way. :( And starts shooting me (friendly fire)
He isn't really talking about that. He is referring to players that, for example, are in a full health hellcat and do have the opportunity to but never ever take it, nor would ever attempt to even stop capping for the sake of his teammates like you would.
Call me a smartarse Jingles, but what if that last surviving tank is far away from you, the cap is right there, and you're in a tank like the T95. Yeah....... Sometimes you just know you will not get any more damage, and capping a bit will give you a bit more XP. To cap or not to cap...... sometimes capping is the right thing to do, and sometimes you're just being a greed, selfish player who sucks at WoT.
Curtis Stokman In such situation, given the way you see it, the right thing to do would be to cap and try to draw him out. However, it depends. If that last tank is an ISU-152, JadgTiger, E-75. And he has 2/3rds of all of his team's kills. And the score is 14-10 Then everyone cap to force his hand. A player like that could win if given a chance. Don't go at him one at a time to be taken to tank school. Get your two lowest tier tanks in the cap circle, and your "Big Boys" ready themselves. If that same player has no kills, and is not very good, HUNT HIS $*@ DOWN!!
Curtis Stokman IT is situational. JUst because the last enemy tank is an E-75 doesn't mean it is a good E-75. Four or five tanks can easily gang-bang an E-75, if they bum-rush him, and get around him. Hense the usefullness of XVM. If XVM says "last player is Lowe with 300 battles," go kill him. If XVM says "last player is a 70%er with a WN8 of 3145," and this guy is the one guy who has killed anything, or done a lot of damage, then capping is a ligitimate idea in order to force his hand. It all boils down to using your brain, and trying to get better constantly at WoT. An idiot who tries to learn from his mistakes is already a better idiot then one who whines and yells at others and calls other noobs, and the former idiot has some hope to improve. Not so much the latter idiot.
That second match-I had the same result in a tier 7 game with my KV-1S 2 days ago. I along with a KV-2 were the only people not going into lemming mode on the side of the map as far from the cap as possible-and we were the only ones to score any damage (and survive as well).
Do a Joy of derp again please No, you are not bad at world of tanks, but WoT itself is bad as it rewards killing way more than basecapping, then remove those stupid zones and just make it teamdeathmatches!!!!
I do not really share the same views as you there jingles. Granted it's not always the best option to cap, however if you are sure you can't hunt down the remaining enemy tanks because everyone else is just going to get there first and kill them before you can then it is smart to cap and the reason is simple, at the end of the day, more XP and credits for you... Similarly, if you are severely damaged or are in a tank that can't take hits and you can't advance on the remaining enemies without being shot at it's usually smarter to just cap, again, little as it is, it's better than the alternative... Not caping just to let your team hunt down the remaining tanks is not the smart thing to do when you stand nothing to gain from it. As for that match where the enemy team won without there being any kills. You are wrong Jingles. I'm sorry but you are just plain wrong. The enemy team did everything absolutly right. They went into the cap to force the opponents to come at them and reset the cap, taking then the defenders advantage... What happened at the end is that his team was so bad that they didn't even bothered with the cap and it lost them the game... Granted all teams ended up screwed but that's not the fault of the guys who capped. Had they came out of the cap to take teh fight into the enemy they would not only lose the defender's advantage, they'd have to fully expose their tanks against a line of enemy tanks in wait to kill them and that would have cost them the game.
Once drove down the middle of Highway in a KV-5 all the way to the enemy base. As the rest of my team got massacred at either corner of the map, I got my first Kolobanov's Medal for my efforts. The other team had pushed too far to get back and reset.
Jingles, you may have stated the answer to this but say you are on a team with minimal loses and the enemy team has 3 people left is that the appropriate time to say get more xp and stop the cap?
Hey Jingles i just went to the tank museum and the first thing i did is go to the TOG i love your message you put in the card " Dear TOG will you be my valentine from Jingles (Gnome)" well that was worth the trip hahahaha
i've had a battle be over in 1:58 seconds by capturing the base on encounter on steppes. sadly i don't have it recorded otherwise i would send it in to jingles
jingles for the cap part, my friend's internet tends to suffer sometimes and when the game is almost over and they are guaranteed to win (tanks swarming the last enemy tanks) he will sit in the cap circle if his connection is going bad so that he can get extra points while not denying his team the kills. (this is what he said, I don't know the validity of it)
Sometimes it is necessary to cap even when you have the opportunity to kill the last enemy when they are hiding and the time left in the battle is starting to get low so that you can secure the win.
jingles you said that if you have more invader points than defence points they are normally not a good player. but if you go on your stats you have more invader points than defence, if you go on circonflexes and highflyer15s stats they have more invader points than defender
Jingles, there's an exception to the cap rule. Ever had 6 tanks vs their 2, and you know you can't reach them before they die? Then, I believe it's fine to cap for some extra points, vs the chance of points, maybe, if the enemy is way better than the 4 guys fighting them already.
Indeed, in my experience many matches end with faster tanks hunting down the last enemy while, slow ones getting some extra cap points and everybody happy. Then again, one comes to the Jingles channel for amusement and showmanship rather than actual knowledge/info about the game.
Ok, Jingles. I have over twice as much cap points as def points but that doesn't make me bad player. In fact after 26k games I still have 57% win ratio. This situation is more complex than you make it sound like. Although I got most of these points long time ago when I was still a huge noob. Also these two games are exact reason why I disabled encounter forever and refuse to platoon with anyone who has it enabled. It's been happening to me way too often.
I understand the frustration with capping here, Jingles, but I need to call you out on it. Using blanket statements on stats like that is the easiest way to start a flame war, especially when it comes to WoT where many get quite defensive about their stats. You need to think of the different situations that crop up. Yes, fast cap can suck. However, you get the slow tanks very much so out of the chase for 1 or 2 light/medium tanks with the rest of the team taking forever just to bring them down. You've got the last remaining enemies out of position to defend, but your team is all beat up and a loss from trying to kill them is quite possible. There's also trying to preempt the cap race. You can also have a team on encounter go in and quickly go 0
Now I'll admit. I do sit in the cap circle with a sure win. That is only if I am in a TOG or a KV-2. ONLY. I have also backed out of the cap circle to let my team mates win by killing the last enemy tank. Purely because some is better than none in terms of XP.
It's because you guys are on the EU server. On the NA server people actually go up the hill, sniper. We have spotters on the NA server. But, every server is different. So you can expect differences on the NA, SEA, RU, and the EU server.
Exactly, commander is responsible for spotting tanks. Commander knockout removes the bonus given to all crew members and reduces view range. The same thing if the view ports are damaged. AMX 40 view range is 320m.
what about encounter on el halluf with 2 tanks remaining and one of them is arty and the other is a hellcat, while your driving a TOGII with 300 HP. is it still wrong to cap?
Had to look this video up after your WoWS's video about Harry the ahole. How did I miss this one back in the day? Also, graphics and open chat in WoT nostalgia.
He made the KV-1 come to him. Yes, if it wasn't for the KV-1's supidity, he'd have lost the game. Still, XVMM did get the KV-1 to come to him. Ah, the English language. You so troll
Noobsaucesalesmen Why stupidity? Maybe KV-1 was just afraid of DECAP by BLIND SHOT from one cap circle to another (possible on Malinovka) so he rushed forward? Yes, he did it also because of greed, but that is a decent excuse :)
Since that team capped so early, they will be able to get playing another game sooner. Sure, if they had gone down fighting they might have gotten more XP, but you can't look at the numbers without also looking at the time spent in the match. In terms of XP per minute, that was a very successful game. You might not like it, but it is efficient.
but what should I do if I was in a T95 and we are winning 10 to 1 and the last enemy is on the other side of the map, should I try to hunt him down with 13km/h?
The only time its really worth capping instead of killing the last enemy tank (When its 10 v 1) is when you are either in a heavily crippled tank, out of ammo or far too slow (T95 or Maus slow) to reach the last enemy tank before the other friendly tanks get there. If you can get 60 extra cap points then that's at least a small amount of experience closer to your next tank.
While I agree with you jingles for the most part, if there's only 2 mediums (or other nimble tanks) and there's a lot of us still alive while I'm in my maus, if I'm closer to the cap, I'm capping
But jingles I have 1374 wn8 and a 53% win rating and I have around 1000 more base capture points than base defence points. so... plz give me an answer.
i have to agree with what jingles has said. I play both pc and xbox version of the game and every time i see team mate capping when its five to one it annoys me to the fact there is just one tank left.
Encounter on mines is pretty bad too, whenever one team gets to the cap circle, the other team just seems to derp and give up. Although I'm not sure me playing this on xbox affects it.
Jingles I agree but there have been times when i was near enemy cap and last few enemy were on other side of map. There was NO way i could get them or do any damage. So capping was the best option there since I would've AT LEAST gotten something for capping or nothing for going after them and not hitting them.
Once I managed 18 exp (tripled) for a first win. But I had it coming, I was driving a Grille. Also, hypothetical situation: I'm in my Tiger II, I have 3-4 kills and I'm near the cap circle. Meanwhile enemy team has last tank, a fast one on the other side of the map. Friendly medium(s) closes on said enemy tank, and I am reasonably sure that it is only matter of time before enemy goes down. I have no hope in catching him and doing any damage before it happens. So I stay in circle to (maybe) get few more xp from this game, and to strenghten the chances for a win if enemy somehow manages to fend off attacker(s). Does that make me a bad player? Because it certainly elevates my base capture points.
So if I'm a AT-2, AT-8, T95, etc. and I have 6 scouts alive on my team I'm supposed to leave the cap and haul my slow ass out of points just to get .3 KM before they beat me there? Capping is completely situational and you shouldn't smash players if they have no other option but to cap.
I spent most of my time in my Panzer IV and T-50-2 not even capturing. Jingles is trying to say instead of charging and fighting the enemy, just sit at your base and camp.
Nice video Jingles but you are WRONG regarding the base capture/defence points.I have 1.53 avg base capture points and 1.28 defense and while I am not by any means a Unicum I am not a bad player.I have a 55/6% Win Rate and NoobMeter rates me as Good or Very good in all four categories (Performance/Ef//WN7/80
In my mind the XP reward for capping should be way higher. So that at almost anytime capping is as good as destroying all remaining tanks or close to it.
A small and quick note on capture points vs defense points.
Great players will keep the enemy from capping, by reading the minimap and defending the base way before the enemy even has the chance to start capping, whereas great players also know when it's time to cap and when it's time to not cap.
And to be honest, the "I have to cap to win"/"I have to fake a cap to draw the enemy out" comes up way more than "I have to go home and reset to win" in some players' games. Me, Circon and Jingles included.
That's at least my small take on it :)
But I'm pretty sure Jingles meant a WHOLE lot more avg base pts than defense pts. Like 3 to 1
This guy... "Look at me im so good". Pathetic 11 year olds on the internet.
Weo Check out "this guy"s channel.
Weo I wanted to write something, but all words have lost their meaning when trying to describe how much I am in shock of how childish your comment is O_O
That was what I was thinking too. How can I get a lot of base defence points when I see players are heading to my base, and I move to intercept them so I either stop them from getting there, or don't give them a chance to build up base capture points in the first place. Or, you know that enemy tanks are going to your base, and you won't have time to reset them, so you go and capture their base instead. I haven't found it to be uncommon for games to end with 3 of our tanks having fought our way through one flank at the same time as 3 of their tanks have fought their way through their flank, forcing us to cap before they can.
Weo you got the wrong guy here idiot, maybe check him out first
for me, there are three reasons, and three reasons only to cap.
1. to take pressure off a flank by capping, and drawing the enemy back to defend their base, but only if the battle is going badly.
2. cap b/c you have to, other wise you lose the game
3. cap b/c there are only 1-3 enemy tanks left, there are 10 or so friendlies left, 7 or so of which are bearing down on the remaining enemy, and I know I won't make it there in time to land another shot on any enemies
other wise i opt to kill them all
I couldn't agree more
Except I would add the clause of not finishing the cap if your allies are about to kill them. It's just common courtesy, you'd appreciate it if your allies let you get the kill (and twice the exp they'd get for capping).
There's also strategic reasons to start capping. Say the left side of the map is being overrun by enemy tanks and your team is about to collapse, if you're in a medium or light that has broken through can drive into the cap diverting attention from the collapsing left flank giving the members of your team some breathing space. Not capping fully but as a distraction.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig. " ~ Blondie
*checks capture points and defense points*
*realizes capture is more than defense*
Fuck.. better start decapping more :)
If it makes you feel any better, me too.
This made me go check mine, and it turns out I have exactly twice as much defends then invader points. But tbh I still don't feel like anything better then the average newb.. Wierd :P every time I see xvm has me at "above average" ... it crax me up :D
+icupid69 Hey, I'm a fucking tomato, good for you. How are they a year later XD
Fuzzie I cap if I'm a top tier heavy if my engines damaged
i once got a medal for not being spotted the entire game and cap the enemy base to 100% on my own. not sure what that medal is called. i felt so dirty afterwards lol.
but yeah, was in some slow ass tank trying to keep up but the friendly tanks rolled over all enemies before i could even shoot, by the time i finaly reached the base all enemies where on the other side of the map.
fuck this piece of shit tank, i'm gonna farm some looser points.... and got a medal for it haha.
i think it was the duck tank. or some other low tier frenchy.
The AMX.40 is still faster than Internet explorer
There are situations in which I *will* start to cap, even if victory looks certain. An example: Say I'm in something slow and useless, like an AMX40. I have battled my way slowly to the cap circle, our team is winning 14:9. Normally I'd hunt down that last tank, but if I look to my map and XVM shows that tank was last spotted several minutes drive away, I'm going to take the opportunity to scrounge a few extra XP and let the more capable tanks hunt down the survivor. You might call that selfish, and you'd be right, but what else am I supposed to do?
And I would not blame you, but this is more about those players that would not even attempt it even if they were driving something fast like a hellcat that was still on full health or would even bother to (temp.) stop capping to let others get some extra dmg in.
Thank you, Jingles, for putting up these videos. You're giving more material to the common in-game troll.
Capping isnt the thing to do most the time, but Jingles, this is directly from your profile
Base Capture points 17,726
Base Defense Points 11,598
"If you show me a player with more capture points than defense points, I will show you a terrible player."
Wow lol
The Mighty Jingles
oooooooooooooooooooh. you dun got lit up son. i hope jingles sees this.
l0l
Devon Blair
You should try posting that to a new wot video ;)
I know you probably wont read this comment Jingles but the good the bad and the ugly series was what first got me into this game! Your tank reviews led me to choose what tanks I was going to get! Hope you had great holidays and keep it up! The Mighty Jingles
"Look at these window-licking oxygen thieves"
Glorious titles, need more like them
Jingles, I have to hand it to you, you've struck absolute gold here! Not only the video is funny but you generated hilarious comments, too! :)
One third is going nuts about their stats and mimimi about you doubting their awesomeness, one third is pointing out your overall def and cap stats while ignoring the recent stats that tell the story your way... and the last third is watching in delight... ^^
Awesome entertainment :)
I remember a game like the first one here. Same map. I was on my Hellcat. It was horrible, what a way to waste x5 XP
Ugh.. the way circ drives that S-51 makes my feet curl.. on that same map, same spot, I drove my Bishop up the hill, turned towards the town, and then promply fell on my side and couldn't do anything until the enemy came for the cap and had a good laugh at the helpless arty...
I've got a rating of 5k in 7k battles and have 3x the capture as the defense...
Am I also a bad player?
Jingles, This is one of the most funny and interesting series of all time! Keep up the Awesome work and i love your videos! Hehe
With the S-51 it makes sense because it has massive splash damage.
Is Circon firing guided missiles or what? :D
Guided missiles are comming out next patch with chineese arty, they have to sell gold somehow right?
Just looked at YOUR stats there Jingles, you have more Base capture than Defense, 17k to 10k. Pot, meet kettle.
Jingles you're being a bit harsh on people that have a lot of cap points relative to def points, I've got a ratio of 2:1 and still maintain an efficiency of 1540, I've just played a fair number of relatively slow tanks whereby travelling half way across the map to kill another enemy or two is neither viable nor worth the time investment. Granted, it can be selfish when other people are trying to finish people off, but frankly, the average player is usually so bloody incompetent that I'd rather just assume that no matter the odds, that they will fail anyway and, other than in extreme cases such as in those first two videos, take the safe option and cap. Naturally, this depends heavily on the situation, but a ratio of 2:1 is indicative of my average, and frankly, though its on the high side and probably does hurt xp/ game somewhat, I think such a ratio is perfectly acceptable.
There is big difference between capping and winning by cap. If you don't rob people of the exp still left with your capping then nobody cares if you cap. When i cap and we are clearly winning i usually write in chat, that i will let them finish the rest even if i have to go out of cap circle.
Peter Ludvig Well that's great and all, but I've been traumatised a few too many times watching like 7 of my team-mates that surround a couple of low health enemies miraculously manage to kill themselves. If I can't directly control something myself I don't take this risk, if that's selfish then so be it. Besides which, I was focusing more on his specific mentioning of a 1:1 ratio and that it can be used as a straightforward measurement of someone's skill, I'm sure there is some correlation in there, particularly at the extreme ends, but its not reliable to simply take a ratio, particularly quite a mild one like that, and blanket it across the player base.
I had well above 2:1 cap-def points and I was a Unicum with a 65% WR playing mostly solo pubs, so ya Jingles is a little off base here. Though I understand what he's trying to say, he just failed really hard at conveying it.
The funny thing is that he himself has 6k more cap than def points, so I think he wasn't really aware what he was saying .. as he just is sometimes ;)
the amx 40 has a nock out commander jingles so that might be what happen tbh
Its like Christmas when I see a new video from you Jingles. Keep em going! :)
who was platooned with (the KV-1S in the second game)
the cap circle
BGfootballfan I don't think it was only the KV-1S :P
BGfootballfan
то тогава всеки щеше да е във взвод със него :D
Everyday with a new jingles video is a good day.
I really want some more Good Bad and Ugly like number 7. God awful drivers, fucking funny entertainment.
This particular episode should be seen by as many players as possible.
Need to spread the word.
That was so evil from the AMX, but so stupid from the KV...
Jingles I have to disagree with what you said about heavies sitting in the cap, if it's a big heavy tank and maybe it's engine and track are damaged and the enemy or enemies are across the map why would you go for a kill and points you now you're not going to earn?
07:05 let's say I'm in my KV-3 (this has happened) with a damaged stock engine. The last enemy tank is on the other side of the map and I am currently right next to the flag (encounter). There is no way I will ever catch up to the 2 IS tanks racing across the map to kill the last tank. Is it okay then for me to sit in the cap and get a few extra points without winning the game by capping?
Yes, that's okay, since not only does it give you some exp (cap points and successfull cap) and an Invader medal, it also might give you the edge needed to get into 1st to 3rd place and any rewards given for that. If you can spot, damage or even kill that last tank, the exp is much better.
Once I drove an AT 2 right into the enemy cap unopposed and won, but the only xp I got was from total team damage (which was low) since only a few tanks had died AND it was a x3 first win... never again.
1 Minute ago boy I was happy too see this video before I popped my shoes of my feet! Just got home from school! :D
GamingAether Same and same!
***** Haha oh man guess Jingle's will be getting even more subs because of you ;)
I love how jingles defends the lemming train on porokova and feels that not defending against a cap blitz is somehow the enemies fault and not the fault of the morons who hid and lost to cap w/o even trying.
The kv-1 driver inspired me to rebuy my kv-1 then i died first battle with zero dmg....
lets just say i don't have a kv-1 in my garage anymore
I have a Dead KV-1 in my garage without any crew.
The Crew Found Their Way Into My KV-2.
did u grind it? because stock it sucks, but fully upgraded is a good tank
yes mine is almost fully upgraded, but i just like my kv-2 so much better
I agree
T1 heavy all day every day, I'd take it over the kv-1 in almost every situation :)
That's not to say the kv-1 is bad, it's just not my kind of tank.
"Look at these window licking oxygen thieves" I love it
Jingles, you broke your promise. I've found quite a few people who are unicum level (and even above QBs level) who have more cap points then defense points. Don't lie to us :'(
there was 1 tank left alive but i caped because i had 38hp and he was coming to kill me also i was by myself does that make me bad?
nope. You did the right decision
good decision
A minor note on the 'sitting in the cap while you are ensured a win' situation; If you are in a slow tank, and you know the last survivor is across the map, and half of your remaining team is either already there, or are going to way before you get there, I can accept that you sit in the cap circle.
As long as you don't actually win by capping, it's no different from just stopping in the middle of a field, because you don't want to do an insane rush towards someone you're never even gonna see.
But at that point, why sit in the cap circle in the first place, and not just move out of it..
Other than that, I agree.
i couldn't really care less about my gameplay stats, I know I'm not that good at the game (still better than a lot of players out there) and yea, you can say I've "Failed my way to tier VII" but I don't care, I like the game, its a game and I just want to play for the fun! :)
I had a fun game at one point, where I was capping in my TOG II, and we had a bunch of heavies. KV-1S, M6 and 2 Pz. IVs alive. The last person on the enemy team was an M5 Stuart. ''stop cap'' ''don't cap'' until I got shot at, finally and the cap was reset. So I moved out of the cap. They searched for the M5 for around 4 minutes and then it was a draw. Denied them the win on purpose, as I did not get back into the cap.
Jingles as to your not hunting down the last enemy tanks when you are full health means you a bad player and say there's no excuse, I raise you t28, t28 prototype or t95 games on malinovka where the last couple enemy tanks are scouts up on the hill.
My stats are good, but no I'm not gonna spend 10 minutes driving up there when they're gonna be dead in less than 2
If you're in a t28, t28 prot. or t95 vs 2 scouts you're pretty much boned if their IQ is in the tree-digits. If you stay at your base you can easily be outflanked and killed. Or they can go for the cap and when you kill one the other can hide behind the wreck. Or if you start capping they can go to your cap and win (happened to me in a KV with dead driver and damaged engine vs 2xSU26).
If you are alone then capping is the right thing to do. Otherwise let your team get the kills.
Alexander Mitov we were talking about when you overwhelmingly outnumber your opponents
123eldest If they can't kill two scouts before I cap, i usually hop off. unless they are screwing it up royally and then they don't deserve the kills.
Zdrack Sounds fair enough.
That first replay description though....
;)
We wining 13 to 5.. im in t95 super hv american td. I get to enemy base and start caping. My tank is too slow to chace remaning enemy tanks. So im capping. There is nothing wrong with this. If necessary ill go out of cap circile when its reack 90%. If necessary ill cap and win the game for my team. But most of the players cant get it this way. :( And starts shooting me (friendly fire)
He isn't really talking about that. He is referring to players that, for example, are in a full health hellcat and do have the opportunity to but never ever take it, nor would ever attempt to even stop capping for the sake of his teammates like you would.
My god that second game. I would have probably been pissed if I was on the winning team. Especially if it was a first win.
Call me a smartarse Jingles, but what if that last surviving tank is far away from you, the cap is right there, and you're in a tank like the T95.
Yeah....... Sometimes you just know you will not get any more damage, and capping a bit will give you a bit more XP.
To cap or not to cap...... sometimes capping is the right thing to do, and sometimes you're just being a greed, selfish player who sucks at WoT.
Curtis Stokman
In such situation, given the way you see it, the right thing to do would be to cap and try to draw him out.
However, it depends.
If that last tank is an ISU-152, JadgTiger, E-75.
And he has 2/3rds of all of his team's kills. And the score is 14-10
Then everyone cap to force his hand.
A player like that could win if given a chance. Don't go at him one at a time to be taken to tank school.
Get your two lowest tier tanks in the cap circle, and your "Big Boys" ready themselves.
If that same player has no kills, and is not very good, HUNT HIS $*@ DOWN!!
Curtis Stokman
IT is situational.
JUst because the last enemy tank is an E-75 doesn't mean it is a good E-75.
Four or five tanks can easily gang-bang an E-75, if they bum-rush him, and get around him.
Hense the usefullness of XVM.
If XVM says "last player is Lowe with 300 battles," go kill him.
If XVM says "last player is a 70%er with a WN8 of 3145," and this guy is the one guy who has killed anything, or done a lot of damage, then capping is a ligitimate idea in order to force his hand.
It all boils down to using your brain, and trying to get better constantly at WoT.
An idiot who tries to learn from his mistakes is already a better idiot then one who whines and yells at others and calls other noobs, and the former idiot has some hope to improve. Not so much the latter idiot.
What if you are in an TOG 2 started capping winning and there are just a few scouts and arty in enemy team? You cant really chase them can you?
Shit i have twice as many cap points as defend points. But im blue?? and i always go for kills. How the fuck did that happen
Your killing the enemy tanks before they get to your cap circle ;D
(so no need to worry haha)
since watching this video I started paying attention to my cap/def ratio. After two years, it still favors capping.
YES!!
Well.. Thank YOU :D
That second match-I had the same result in a tier 7 game with my KV-1S 2 days ago. I along with a KV-2 were the only people not going into lemming mode on the side of the map as far from the cap as possible-and we were the only ones to score any damage (and survive as well).
Do a Joy of derp again please
No, you are not bad at world of tanks, but WoT itself is bad as it rewards killing way more than basecapping, then remove those stupid zones and just make it teamdeathmatches!!!!
they should add a team deathmatch mode i like the sound of it but just keep standard battles asswell
That would remove the tactical nature of the game. It would just turn into a 15v15 brawl.
6:10 Who was that kv1s platooned with ;o
thats why i never play encounter.
Encounter is better than regular mode because you at least cant cap as fast, besides, those sitting in the cap are in dangerous positions.
So if there are two arty left on enemy team, and we are capping, should i tell peeps to kill arty to win rather than cap? Then it is OK right?
I do not really share the same views as you there jingles. Granted it's not always the best option to cap, however if you are sure you can't hunt down the remaining enemy tanks because everyone else is just going to get there first and kill them before you can then it is smart to cap and the reason is simple, at the end of the day, more XP and credits for you... Similarly, if you are severely damaged or are in a tank that can't take hits and you can't advance on the remaining enemies without being shot at it's usually smarter to just cap, again, little as it is, it's better than the alternative... Not caping just to let your team hunt down the remaining tanks is not the smart thing to do when you stand nothing to gain from it.
As for that match where the enemy team won without there being any kills. You are wrong Jingles. I'm sorry but you are just plain wrong. The enemy team did everything absolutly right. They went into the cap to force the opponents to come at them and reset the cap, taking then the defenders advantage... What happened at the end is that his team was so bad that they didn't even bothered with the cap and it lost them the game... Granted all teams ended up screwed but that's not the fault of the guys who capped. Had they came out of the cap to take teh fight into the enemy they would not only lose the defender's advantage, they'd have to fully expose their tanks against a line of enemy tanks in wait to kill them and that would have cost them the game.
So in other words, exactly what I said.
Once drove down the middle of Highway in a KV-5 all the way to the enemy base. As the rest of my team got massacred at either corner of the map, I got my first Kolobanov's Medal for my efforts. The other team had pushed too far to get back and reset.
They all kempt bushes, that's so unfaire plaine
Jingles, you may have stated the answer to this but say you are on a team with minimal loses and the enemy team has 3 people left is that the appropriate time to say get more xp and stop the cap?
Oh dear, Jingle....
you just prove that 99% of all the SEA player are suck at Wot
The first is NA i think- i played a tim before and some clan names seem familiar to me
Oh and everybody speaks english :D
such percentage
seems legit
wow
what does SEA mean?
***** South East Asia
***** south east asian server
Hey Jingles i just went to the tank museum and the first thing i did is go to the TOG i love your message you put in the card " Dear TOG will you be my valentine from Jingles (Gnome)" well that was worth the trip hahahaha
i've had a battle be over in 1:58 seconds by capturing the base on encounter on steppes. sadly i don't have it recorded otherwise i would send it in to jingles
whoops i mad that a time stamp
made* fail
description of the first replay..."window-licking oxygen thieves"...i love it.
jingles for the cap part, my friend's internet tends to suffer sometimes and when the game is almost over and they are guaranteed to win (tanks swarming the last enemy tanks) he will sit in the cap circle if his connection is going bad so that he can get extra points while not denying his team the kills. (this is what he said, I don't know the validity of it)
Atleast the KV-1 driver got courageous resistance bonus :-)
Sometimes it is necessary to cap even when you have the opportunity to kill the last enemy when they are hiding and the time left in the battle is starting to get low so that you can secure the win.
I must be going mad, but I swear those French roundels on the AMX 40 look like eyes...and I swear they keep blinking every now and then. 0_o
jingles you said that if you have more invader points than defence points they are normally not a good player. but if you go on your stats you have more invader points than defence, if you go on circonflexes and highflyer15s stats they have more invader points than defender
I absolutely hate when the Heavies camp the northeast corner on Prokhorovka. I once lost in 3 minutes because no one went to defend the cap
Jingles, there's an exception to the cap rule. Ever had 6 tanks vs their 2, and you know you can't reach them before they die? Then, I believe it's fine to cap for some extra points, vs the chance of points, maybe, if the enemy is way better than the 4 guys fighting them already.
Indeed, in my experience many matches end with faster tanks hunting down the last enemy while, slow ones getting some extra cap points and everybody happy. Then again, one comes to the Jingles channel for amusement and showmanship rather than actual knowledge/info about the game.
It's almost as if I hadn't said exactly that myself.
BohemianEagle 'gets back from classes, sees that you replied to me' Well then. My life is is now complete. I can die happy.
Ok, Jingles. I have over twice as much cap points as def points but that doesn't make me bad player. In fact after 26k games I still have 57% win ratio.
This situation is more complex than you make it sound like. Although I got most of these points long time ago when I was still a huge noob.
Also these two games are exact reason why I disabled encounter forever and refuse to platoon with anyone who has it enabled. It's been happening to me way too often.
The AMX replay, his commander was hurt so his spotting ability was reduced, hence the SU-85 disappearing and reappearing.
l luv the chat at the end, amx 40 says "sup", and kv1 just "noob"
At 6:11, is the KV 1S platooning with himself ?
I understand the frustration with capping here, Jingles, but I need to call you out on it. Using blanket statements on stats like that is the easiest way to start a flame war, especially when it comes to WoT where many get quite defensive about their stats.
You need to think of the different situations that crop up. Yes, fast cap can suck. However, you get the slow tanks very much so out of the chase for 1 or 2 light/medium tanks with the rest of the team taking forever just to bring them down. You've got the last remaining enemies out of position to defend, but your team is all beat up and a loss from trying to kill them is quite possible. There's also trying to preempt the cap race. You can also have a team on encounter go in and quickly go 0
But now the big question: With who was the KV1S platooned in the second game?
Now I'll admit. I do sit in the cap circle with a sure win. That is only if I am in a TOG or a KV-2. ONLY. I have also backed out of the cap circle to let my team mates win by killing the last enemy tank. Purely because some is better than none in terms of XP.
It's because you guys are on the EU server. On the NA server people actually go up the hill, sniper. We have spotters on the NA server. But, every server is different. So you can expect differences on the NA, SEA, RU, and the EU server.
"No arguments, you're wrong."
I guess all those Kolobanov's medals spawned from the aether...
Jingles, with the AMX40 match, he couldn't spot the SU85 because his commander was dead.
Well, the AMX may actually have a bit of trouble spotting things with it's commander knocked out I would think.
Well I guess that answer is no, lol
Exactly, commander is responsible for spotting tanks. Commander knockout removes the bonus given to all crew members and reduces view range. The same thing if the view ports are damaged. AMX 40 view range is 320m.
what about encounter on el halluf with 2 tanks remaining and one of them is arty and the other is a hellcat, while your driving a TOGII with 300 HP. is it still wrong to cap?
Had to look this video up after your WoWS's video about Harry the ahole. How did I miss this one back in the day? Also, graphics and open chat in WoT nostalgia.
And this is exactly why I don't play Encounters anymore...
Well played to that AMX 40 driver. Dem taunts tho :P
He didn't win the match, KV-1's idiotic move help him to win the match. There is nothing special about him. :P
He made the KV-1 come to him. Yes, if it wasn't for the KV-1's supidity, he'd have lost the game. Still, XVMM did get the KV-1 to come to him. Ah, the English language. You so troll
Noobsaucesalesmen Why stupidity? Maybe KV-1 was just afraid of DECAP by BLIND SHOT from one cap circle to another (possible on Malinovka) so he rushed forward? Yes, he did it also because of greed, but that is a decent excuse :)
Since that team capped so early, they will be able to get playing another game sooner. Sure, if they had gone down fighting they might have gotten more XP, but you can't look at the numbers without also looking at the time spent in the match. In terms of XP per minute, that was a very successful game. You might not like it, but it is efficient.
Think only time it's ok is if there is no chance ever to get the other tank to cap at the end.
but what should I do if I was in a T95 and we are winning 10 to 1 and the last enemy is on the other side of the map, should I try to hunt him down with 13km/h?
His commander was hurt, that's why he couldn't see anything
The only time its really worth capping instead of killing the last enemy tank (When its 10 v 1) is when you are either in a heavily crippled tank, out of ammo or far too slow (T95 or Maus slow) to reach the last enemy tank before the other friendly tanks get there. If you can get 60 extra cap points then that's at least a small amount of experience closer to your next tank.
The AMX 40 driver also had a dead commander, so that might have contributed to his not seeing the SU-85 as well.
While I agree with you jingles for the most part, if there's only 2 mediums (or other nimble tanks) and there's a lot of us still alive while I'm in my maus, if I'm closer to the cap, I'm capping
But jingles I have 1374 wn8 and a 53% win rating and I have around 1000 more base capture points than base defence points. so... plz give me an answer.
+StickyFishy 1347 wn8?HAH!
i have 9300 wn8 scrub, u sock
9300? u mean PR nobody has over 9300 wn8 ur talking about PR
StickyFishy do u have any sense of humour at all? i wasn't being serious hahaha
my actual wn8 is only a shy 1050 after 4750 battles ;) although my recents are always between 1800 and 2000
my wn8 now is 1528 and my recent is around 2100 you can check my stats up on noobmeter CaptainDerp1232 NA
i have to agree with what jingles has said. I play both pc and xbox version of the game and every time i see team mate capping when its five to one it annoys me to the fact there is just one tank left.
Encounter on mines is pretty bad too, whenever one team gets to the cap circle, the other team just seems to derp and give up. Although I'm not sure me playing this on xbox affects it.
so would it be wrong if you cap to get points/exp if you drive a super slow tank like a at2 or churchill1?
That AMX 40 driver deserves the WoT version of a Purple Heart...He had an idea...dumb enough to try it & lucky enough to survive.
Jingles I agree but there have been times when i was near enemy cap and last few enemy were on other side of map. There was NO way i could get them or do any damage. So capping was the best option there since I would've AT LEAST gotten something for capping or nothing for going after them and not hitting them.
Once I managed 18 exp (tripled) for a first win.
But I had it coming, I was driving a Grille.
Also, hypothetical situation:
I'm in my Tiger II, I have 3-4 kills and I'm near the cap circle. Meanwhile enemy team has last tank, a fast one on the other side of the map. Friendly medium(s) closes on said enemy tank, and I am reasonably sure that it is only matter of time before enemy goes down. I have no hope in catching him and doing any damage before it happens. So I stay in circle to (maybe) get few more xp from this game, and to strenghten the chances for a win if enemy somehow manages to fend off attacker(s). Does that make me a bad player? Because it certainly elevates my base capture points.
So if I'm a AT-2, AT-8, T95, etc. and I have 6 scouts alive on my team I'm supposed to leave the cap and haul my slow ass out of points just to get .3 KM before they beat me there? Capping is completely situational and you shouldn't smash players if they have no other option but to cap.
I spent most of my time in my Panzer IV and T-50-2 not even capturing. Jingles is trying to say instead of charging and fighting the enemy, just sit at your base and camp.
Nice video Jingles but you are WRONG regarding the base capture/defence points.I have 1.53 avg base capture points and 1.28 defense and while I am not by any means a Unicum I am not a bad player.I have a 55/6% Win Rate and NoobMeter rates me as Good or Very good in all four categories (Performance/Ef//WN7/80
In my mind the XP reward for capping should be way higher. So that at almost anytime capping is as good as destroying all remaining tanks or close to it.