Это видео недоступно.
Сожалеем об этом.
Mystery Horror TTRPG Perfection // Vaesen Review & Analysis
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2024
- "How to Play Vaesen, by Free League Publishing" @annerichmond: • How to Play Vaesen, by...
"Dread" by The Impossible Dream: www.drivethrur...
SUBSCRIBE: www.youtube.co...
----------
Bio
----------
Taron "Indestructoboy" Pounds is a game designer, graphic designer, music educator, Twitch streamer, and RUclipsr. He has earned an ENnie nomination for his work on Home-Field Advantage, and is an adamantium best-seller on the Dungeon Masters Guild.
-----------
Credits
----------
Graphic Design & Editing: Taron "Indestructoboy" Pounds
Channel Artwork: Jeremy Luther
Dungeon Map Background: Dyson Logos
#vaesen #ttrpg #roleplay #rpg #dnd
Heart: The City Beneath is another game that does otherworldly horror really well. It also has the most ludonarrative consonance out of any game system I've ever played, where player choices inform the story they want to see and the GM has to give their best interpretation of those story events, which in turn rewards the players for overcoming them.
i love saying that the system behind Heart (and Spire) is a "things going wrong engine", you don't just fail forward, failure is almost more interesting that success
I would love to see Dragonbane to get a review & analysis like this
Would definitely like to see that as well.
I'm very much enjoying these TTRPG reviews, you're a perfect storm of charisma and experience to make the video both genuinely valuable to listen to and just enjoyable to the point I can listen to your reviews and just passively absorb TTRPG knowledge
I'd definitely love to see more Vaesen content! I actually have an Actual Play podcast that's launching its first episode next month where we play Vaesen, so it feels like folks are starting to talk about Vaesen everywhere I look!
Holding the core rule book in my hands gives me a genuine sense of joy. Vaesen is currently my favorite ttrpg and the main game in my home group. My second through fifth favorite games are also from Free League.
The 'Vä' or 'Vae' in Väsen / Vaesen should be pronounced a bit more like the 'Ve' in Very, /Swede
Also, "Vasen" = the vase. Made me giggle and cringe a little each time. 😆 /Another Swede
I learned how to pronounce Vaesen by watching the show Grimm. I do not think that most people who have played this game with that TV show.
@@homerwitham768 as much as i loved grimm wouldn't take any pronunciation advice from them. they were just straight up gluing words together
seems like it plays like Alien (another Free League game) but is Norse Cosmic Horror.
Which is cool! its a good and fun horror system.
Really looking forward to the British and Irish sourcebook. Pucas for all. Shillelagh law.
This was really good content. Talking about how the design works for horror was really like 'I have know this subconsciously before but this is the first time anyone said it'.
I got Vaesen after your C.O. review and am planning to run the intro session for my D&D group soon, thanks for the recommendation!
5e is so overwhelmingly dense with rules so its really intimidating to run even after playing for several years.
I also live close to Uppsala in real life so its extra fun.
This is a great articulation of exactly what draws me to horror mystery as genre, and added depth to my already solid appreciation of Vaesen. Here's to the continued growth of your channel!
I bought Vaesen based on your previous video, and I’m so happy I did! I love CR, but I agree with your comparison of Candela and Vaesen in that previous video, and I’m happy you helped me land on this game!
Candela is terrible... I just bough Vaesen and I can't wait to DM it
@@Recontramojado I’ve only done a couple of sessions with it so far but it’s a good system from what I’ve seen so far!
Good to see a positive video like this on your channel. So sick of the WotC/5e negativity and hate.
As I’m running Forbidden Lands, which uses the Year Zero System, this review was actually really helpful for helping me understand the system better. And I hope to run Vaesen at some point as well!
Thank you so so much for making a Vaesen video. I've been playing it for so long now and I think more people really show play it!
really liked this video being about design! you talking about design is the reason i subscribed a long time ago
yess! I looked into this since your Candela Obscura review and am glad a review for this came
In your lane, vibin’, improvin’. Absolutely love to see that. I’m totally on board with this new style of content !
Maybe it shouldnt, but that first part of your comment reminds me of the obnoxious "sTaY iN yOuR lAnE!" people.
This video was near perfect in format and length. Well done. You have a love for game design and it shows.
Great review. I love how Vaesen doesn't give the vaesen the same stats as the players. The inequity helps make them feel different to the players. These things don't respond the way you do. Many vaesen can't be damaged at all or are only temporarily banished by physical destruction to return a few hours or days later. Its about uncovering their secrets and often making a deal with the vaesen or with the NPCs they are in conflict with.
Great stuff! One of my groups moved to playing Vaesen after the whole OGL mess. It's tough going from being an absolute superhero in that Dragon game to being a regular dude in Vaesen, but it makes the game more tense; the insane skullerymaid with a kitchen knife is suddenly dangerous, whereas in that Dragon game she would just be a minor annoyance.
I think Free League is one of the best bigger TTRPG compaines out there. I like OSR/NSR type of stuff But games like this are just great! They seem to have at least one game in different settings and several games in similar settings but play and work differently. I'd love to see you cover sacrifice an incense & iron rpg. A "smaller" OSR type game that is not small by any means at all, its like Bezerk but an RPG game.
Your mention of it in the CO review prompted a Google, which immediately grabbed my interest and got these books added to my Christmas wishlist. Definitely my vibe.
Yes, YES
I just binded my printed PDF of Vaesen and the additional solo-play rules, your review is very helpful!
(the bit with Amanda made me lol)
Try adding a small light pointed at your face from behind the books, it will separate you from the background, make you stand out and also look creepy. Source: I'm a photographer.
As a German I find the Term "Vaesen" facinating, because it is very similar to the german equivalent the colloquially used "Wesen" in a way I can immediately understand what it is supposed to mean, but the different lanuage makes it just a slightly bit alien, which gives it that mysterious feeling that fits the game very well. 10/10
If anyone is interested in the PDF, it's included in a offer at Bundle of Holding.
Awesome review and analysis! I will definitely have to check out Vaesen at some point!
I'm so glad I found this channel. I can fully respect someone criticising cosmic horror on its merits instead of going to the-at this point tired-"lovecraft was a racist". Not only is this a non-point in relation to the genre (it did affect his writing) but it's been going so long that the "no actually he later regreted being so racist" feels pretty damn tired.
I agree that cosmic horror tends to rely too often on describing a spoiled oversized can of sardines without calling it as such. And the concept of mind-breakingly huge things feels like it's turned into an attraction among those who know of it. Just look at how people talk about subnautica's void or collossal leviathan from the rota mod of subnautica. It's jusf a race to cite the biggest animal one can think of. And that's kinda meaningless, like taking vs battles seriously.
Edit: bruh you actually persuaded me on the horror system thing. Thought it'd be another one of those "kiss your players' asses aa a dm" thing which I can't stand (not that I'm for dm vs player, I just believe dm should be impartial when arbitrating players, especially their mistakes), but a harsh and definitive "you can/can't do that" is a system that would even work against some of my worst habits as a dm.
Thank you so so much for making such a comprehensive and thorough review on Vaesen. I really liked how analytical you were with its systems and also how funny the review was.
I really hope that people that see your review, opt for it instead of Candela Obscura.
(I have no beef with anyone at CR. I just think Vaesen provides a better Mystery Horror experience).
Really hope you make more reviews.
on the side of Lovecraftian/cosmic horror, I do have a suggestion (even if it is well outside the wellhouse of ttrpgs); Signalis.
the only warnings that I'll give here is that it can trip photosensitivity and auditory based epileptic fits, so if you have those issues, may be best to avoid the game.
Great video. If I could add some slight editing critique, I feel you could improve the engagement/vibe of the video with some fitting music. Just something in the background to amplify the tone, even some white noise(or any other color noise) could help out.
I’d be interested to see you test your dislike of partial successes in horror games on a different horror game: Trophy Dark. I ran it recently and it’s a very interesting game to compare to Candela Obscura since it uses a very similar dice mechanic.
Love this format Tarron!
Bruh, I lost it at "Hit Points Lovecraft." xDD
I'm really enjoying these analytical review videos!
I love Free League's stuff! This is one I'm eager to play.
"arbiter of artificial aptitude"...that was some beautiful alliteration
8:48 "...arbiter of artificial aptitude...."
Nice.
This sounds very much like the TV show, Grimm. That show is of course based on the same source material.
I really love these reviews of different ttrpgs
More Vaesen please! I support you finding what you enjoy making fully.
Yo man thank you so much! Just bought vaesen and cant wait to run.
I love the MYZ engine and all things Free League! I would definitely be down for a vid on the mystery structure and GM section!!!
definitely wanna hear about GM tools and how investigations are structured in the book! It's why i clicked
I would love to see you do more reviews of TTRPGS and all third party content for 5e. Yes, that includes Dagger Heart and the Taaldorei reborn book from CR. Maybe Dungeons of Drakkenheim as a product?
Dice pools also make fudging the DC harder on the DM. Good call.
I would love to see The Wildsea.
After this video, you gained a new subscriber. 😊
Awesome set up!
Taron, I generally agree with you on most points in the video. One thing I semi-disagree is your Lovecraftian horror take:
1 - I agree, tentacles and many eyes are way overused, especially by bad writers. It's like the flex-tape meme of slapping a tape on the leaking hole, but the problem is you got 1 piece of tape and 500 holes.
2 - Lovecraftian horror, at least for me, isn't necessarily about the tentacles and the eyes. It's about the general writing style and thematic. The true genius of Lovecraft wasn't necessarily the tentacles and eyes, that's just good worldbuilding. It's the atmosphere that he creates, it's the sense of dread and helplessness that he evokes, that the more you learn, the more you don't want to learn anymore, but at the same time wanting to learn more, and just opening your eyes to the vastness of knowledge you're lacking is like trying to take a sip from the Niagara falls and drives you mad. You can easily take the tentacles out of Lovecraftian horror and replace it with most anything else and still remain S+ horror. But if you take away the theme and atmosphere he creates, no amount of tentacles can reach the same quality of horror. Heck, you can remove the tentacles completely and make it about your granny making you a pie, and as long as you stick to the true lovecraftian themes, it's still gonna be S+ horror.
We can even argue that some of the best horror writers are very lovecraftian. Like, Stephen King, from the few books that I've read, evokes a very lovecraftian feeling, with the added bonus of interpersonal drama (that's the one thing I'm kind of missing in Lovecraft, there's not enough focus on the interpersonal).
Another thing I kind of disagree is the dice system. D&D isn't a system with a gradient for success in it. D&D literally only has 2 states - reach or exceed the DC and it's a success, fail otherwise. It's the culture we've created that makes it a gradient, since we don't want people to fail. But, strictly by the rules, there's no gradient. And in the whole game, there's like 2-3 instances where it says - If you fail by more than X, Y happens. The only thing we can argue is that it feels shitty to roll a 14 when the DC is 15 and the player can start to haggle with the DM to throw him a bone. But, what stops us from, let's say, out of 6 dice, rolling 5x5 and 1x4, and arguing with the DM that "c'mon man, I was so close, throw me a bone". It's the same thing. I think a more correct take is that, 5e as a whole doesn't work for horror, because it doesn't have proper mechanics for horror, and it has way too many "get out of jail free" cards. And you can argue that it's a fresh perspective to use something else rather than a D20, that's fine. But it's not because 5e has a gradient system of success.
The downside of a system where you immediately know what happens when you fail (as opposed to going through an interpreter) is that what happens when you fail is always the same thing. Usually “nothing happens”. Which is boring as fuck. You failed your roll, so the fiction practically ignores your attempt to contribute to it. The GM acting as an interpreter does mean they will occasionally have to get a bit mean, but if you trust your GM, that isn’t always such a bad thing. In fact, it can be fun to see your attempt at success twisted into a complicated success or an interesting failure, rather than just going off without a hitch or fizzling out because you didn’t roll high enough.
Also, I’d argue that you can be *more* stressed about a roll when you don’t know what the result will be until the GM tells you, because you still know that rolling poorly means *something* bad happens. You just don’t know what. I honestly find that a lot scarier. Fear of the unknown, and all that. It’s less immediate, but that leaves time for tension to build.
Ultimately it’s just two different styles of play, both are valid and have their ups and downs. I just wanted to advocate for success gradients a little.
I think it's interesting to make the argument in the first place, because Vaesen doesn't define failure any more than most games do. "Nothing happens" is not a rule, it's an interpretation - the only defined part is that you do not achieve what you wanted (succeed).
A clear example: I wish to cast myself across a chasm to avoid some terrible beast. I fail my roll.
Have I fallen into the chasm? Have I halted at the lip at the last moment, unable to commit and found myself at the mercy of the beast? The game says nothing, only that I have not crossed the chasm and that the outcome is detrimental (because otherwise we would not be rolling).
Even if we all agreed that one or the other is a better fit - that is still fiat and not the system.
@@gagrin1565I suppose that’s true. I’m definitely coming from a place of playing a lot of 5e, where rolling poorly on something like a spell DOES mean that nothing happens, and that philosophy often translates to moments where it shouldn’t. I couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve been met with “you try to pick the lock, but you can’t. What else is everyone doing?” I think there’s probably an argument to be made that it’s cool when systems will prevent poor GMing simply through how they’re designed, because while you’re definitely a lot more likely to get an interesting result when you try to jump over a chasm, something like trying to shoot a monster is still very much in danger of the good ole fashioned “you miss.” AKA, nothing happens. Definitely a conversation to be had, but you’re right: mastering the art of the ruling can solve (or at least mitigate) the “nothing happens” issue.
@@Blizzic To be clear: I don't think it's a bad thing when games make success or failure clear in their systems. I just think that GM fiat is unavoidable, because it's a feature of the games we play not a bug.
@@gagrin1565 We are in agreement there
Great overview. I will keep that in mind when my group wants to try something new 🙂
honestly wish something like this existed for latin american history... oh boy the creatures in Mexican lore alone... hmm, I guess it's time for some adaptation :)
Mood lighting for the gods
2:10 - That's not the actual concept explored in Lovecraft's fictions, that's just the surface decorum. I find a lot of people don't understand what "cosmic horror" is actually about. Let me tell ya, it's not about incomprehensible tentacle monsters that's for sure. In fact some of the best works that explore these concepts have nothing to do with Lovecraft and the disgusting invention of modernity that we call "Mythos".
Sure sure, it was a brief on why I like Vaesen’s choice to be inspired by the gaslamp horror of Lovecraft and not itself BE Lovecraftian horror
Im really enjoying your reviews. Its really cool to hear someone with your level of knowledge and understanding of mechanics discuss games. Id love to hear your thoughts on Old God of Appalachia
What's the rush? Take a breath, slow down and remember that words have gaps between them.
My wife and I have been trying to work out what system to use for a Jumanji esk horror one shot where I'd run the kids sucked into the game and she'd run the adults seeing the game leak out into the real world. This might be the perfect system.
This reminds me of the TV show Grimm.
great review, thanks for sharing!
I've read through the YZE pdf and I feel like theres so many sources for bonuses that I can't see how you could fail much
Bloody good.
Does anyone know where I can find it? I am from Puerto Rico and well we don’t really have any game shops here and their website says they don’t have delivery available to the US
Amazon?
MORE. INCENSE.
Which came first? The TV show Grimm or Vaesen? Because it sounds like Grimm the TTRPG.
Grimm, from the looks of it. I'll have to check it out!
Would you rank its book design and quality over Mörk Borg?
Yeah. They’re very different things, but Vaesen is the red carpet. Mork Borg is the angsty teen
Being swedish your pronunciation aint too bad. There hard word to pronounce so good job.
Is there any reason you couldn't use the Chance of Success table and a d100? That seems easier than rolling all those d6.
A few, I think:
- The "Stats" are all small numbers, reducing the overall "mathematical presentation" of play and character creation.
- d6s are more available than d100s, and d100s are notoriously confusing for new players.
- The "magic crayon" moment of pulling more d6s from a pile, and the good-feel of "roll lots of dice."
There are also extra things that can be performed by rolling additional 6's. So a single rolled 6 is a success, but additional 6's can be spent to knock someone prone, do more damage, take less time to succeed.
This is very similar to 1d4chans simple d6 system
I can't bring myself to agree with success gradient not being a good fit for Horror because of there being some sort of "GM safety-net or FIAT" (call it what you want); in my experience, in these kind of games expectations are set after the declaration of intent but before the roll is made, so at the point of dice casting, you already know the severity of the consequences you might face. You might be on your last leg, attempting a dangerous move that could kill you, and you'd know it before you see the dice, so the GM can't save you.
The only way the GM can be biased in these kind of games is if they choose to be inconsistent with their stakes assessment, which the players are part of and can therefore raise a hand and point out the problem.
Which sounds like unnecessarily adversarial potential if something can achieve the same idea in a better or more interesting way. Different strokes, but binary resolution is my thing. Lol
@@Indestructoboy It is correct to say different strokes indeed, as both systems work just fine. Personally I like the freedom of not needing any exact mechanical definition to my narrative resolution of an action. To add on top of this, I would never put myself in the hands of a GM who could be adversarial towards me so I'm not counting on the system to have to save me from this eventuality, as it is not possible.
It's your fault that I just bought a copy of Vaesen.
I feel like you haven't dug deeper into Lovecraftian horror from the way you speak on it.
Cosmic horror is populerised by Lovecraft during a time when gothic and starel was wide spread but it's neither defined nor encompassed by it. Even Lovecraft's body of work isn't defined by its most popular work. Lovecraft didn't JUST write Cathulu. The shadow over innsmoth and the call of cthulhu are the most popular books but they aren't the only one and even the ingame senarios have a lot more to them than "multi fisheyed monsters"
I'm interested in wird folklore horror witch is why I'm here but as someone who favored genre to play in is horror both these games and their horror ganres are different and their playstyles are different and I feel like you don't understand the genres to begin with.
The discussion of Lovecraft in here was an extreme brief of some criticisms to inform why I prefer Vaesen, not a teardown of the genre.
@@Indestructoboy sorry I got in weeds about it. I did watch the video to the end I sware. I didn't mean to sound hostile. I've just heard you say something to that affect before so I thought I might write down my thoughts.
Hans Christian Anderson was gay and wrote the little mermaid after another man rejected him
Vaesen is a Dutch last name..this game should have Dutch/Belgian influences
Why?
I read,
"The modern-day countries of Netherlands and Belgium are not considered Viking native countries. The Vikings, who were seafaring people from Scandinavia, primarily came from the areas that are now known as Sweden, Norway, and Denmark."
"Nordic is a recent term to refer to the Nordic Countries, that is, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden."
And Vaesen claims to be Scandinavian & Nordic folklore.
"Vaesen presents a dark Gothic setting steeped in Nordic folklore and old myths of Scandinavia."
A suggestion maybe. If you are going to do a scripted video please try to slow down when you present. It's hard to pay attention to what you are saying when your words run together so much.
Yeah, this was the first time using a teleprompter and it definitely shows. I appreciate the feedback!
I always like it when people do reviews for art projects that they really appreciate on a personal level. Its always so irritating watching someone try to bring "an objective lense" when reviewing books or movies and the like