What would the Rebbe say about kneeling to propose marriage?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- What would the Rebbe say about kneeling to propose marriage?
Stump the Rabbi - Rabbi Yossi Paltiel
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Thank you so much for sharing this video. Many of the topics are really good and indeed very relevant to issues or circumstances we face in our daily lives. Many of these videos are great guides and are very necessary.
However, there are many issues with this video and definitely a lack of emotional intelligence and empathy.
Allow me to explain:
#1. The Rebbe's Leadership was the type of leadership where he validated each individual for who they were and where they were coming from. He never (as far as what I have heard or read) made someone doubt themselves, question themselves, or make them feel stupid. By saying "How can someone ever come to such a question" you are directly (or indirectly) implying that the person is crazy for thinking of such a thing.
#2. Rabbi Paltiel is coming from a very primitive perspective on how it was done ages ago in a time that is so foreign to our generation. One needs to ask, how is this "Halacha" different than let's say Shabbos? Has the Halachos of Shabbos changed or "modernized"? Why then did the whole courting, proposal, and marriage changed or modernize? The simple answer is that there is no direct Halacha (unless you can show me a source where it clearly says that kneeling is forbidden) forbidding kneeling.
#3. As a guidance coach and working in the field for over a decade, I have met many individuals who have terrible marriages, I worked with many off the Derech young adults, and worked with many "confused" children. Not only Chassidisher kids but also with Goyish kids from various other religious backgrounds. Here's what I learned by observing all these cases and by listening intently to each client. Why are we prying into their personal lives? What is the reason things changed? Why do we no longer court the way our parents and grandparents did? Why did the traditions change? The simple answer is that there are many miserable people in marriages - many people felt obligated and "forced into" "arranged marriages" - these days it's the mothers and fathers who are encouraging their children to "not do the same mistake I did" or "that won't happen to my children" etc. - so to ask where did such a concept come up from? The better question would be, what brought us to this point where this is happening?
#4. Who says that romance is not a good thing? Why is there a notion that loving your wife (or potential wife) is a bad thing? Worse yet, we are educating our children that it's not a Chassidish thing or not a Jewish thing? Making people feel less valued or question their existentialism is what's causing our "Off the Derech" crisis. Meaning, "oh, you're not Chassidish enough because you have butterfly feelings when the guy calls you" or "how dare you have such goyisher thoughts, what type of Chossid of The Rebbe are you?" or "How do you think Hashem feels about that?" - all these are extremely damaging. The child in their mind interprets this as "You are not good enough and nothing you do or try is not good enough" (I'm sure that we do not intend it to be this "harsh" - but we all have "self-talk" and we all have subconscious levels in motion). The child will come to a point where "heck with this Chassidishkeit, heck with the Rebbe, and heck with Hashem, I'm going to eat a cheeseburger only to prove that I can..." - My point being, we need to be extremely sensitive and use a lot of emotional intelligence and empathy when answering these types of questions.
#5. I know this is getting long - but I have one last and very important point to make. The approach Rabbi Paltiel is taking with responding to this question is one that is based and rooted in a deep prejudice and stereotype. Chassidish people only get married (or date) other Chassidish people. Frum from birth with frum from birth. Baal Teshuva with Baal Teshuva, etc. etc. He says it straight up in the video - "The real question is 'how did they even come to this point?'" The answer to that question is fairly simple. Suppose this scenario; The girl grew up non-religious or not Chassidish. In her mind this is how it's done, everyone in her family did it. She didn't consider when becoming Baal Teshuva that this was problematic or was considered to be an issue - to her it was simply natural. The boy who grew up Chassidish understands where the girl is coming from and out of his empathy decides not to make a big deal of it, and agrees to kneel. I agree that it is foreign and not the most Tzinus, however, it's not Halachaklly forbidden (unless he kneels on a stone floor - where in that case, he would need a mat or carpeting of some sort). Why would it be wrong to go in a room (even if it's in her parent's living room) and kneel before her then? (granted, after asking her father for permission). I believe that that would be the way the Rebbe would handle such a situation - because that was the type of amazing leader The Rebbe was.
I want to end off on a more positive and encouraging note. I love these videos and watch as many of them as I can. You should definitely keep them coming. Kol Hakavod and keep up the amazing good work!
This happened when there are rabbis who are talking in the name of Rebbe as they know what would Rebbe said, but you are right Rebbe was so much more sensitive and what he would said to one person he would not said to other one.
But on the other hand he is just saying generally that if someone is chasid because he wants to be and he knows what it means (many call them selves chasid but have no idea what does it means) he/she would not come to this point to talk about kneeling as it is not even jewish custom.
Hello Yermi
It's a bit too long for me to read but from what I read I recommend to you to look into Rabbi Manis Friedman's teaching. It's ALL based, coming from Chassidus and you will understand how and why to be romantic is absolutely not the way.
It's incredible to understand.
A lot of good luck.
Dinush
Thank you Master P
First, I want to say that I really enjoy these videos - very l’maaseh! So shkoiach! Many questions, and this one included are not necessarily “chassidish” or “lubavitch” oriented, but just halachic, in general. I found the response here appropriate, yes. However, in many communities (I hate saying modern orthodox), such as centrist, YU, whatever, some of these customs seep in. Right, wrong, okay - but it happens. Again, the points mentioned are totally valid, but will such actions pave the way to gehinnom? Our daughter just got engaged. She was in day school her whole life, seminary, etc. The boy was in Yeshiva day school, Yeshiva, etc. I believe he did the one knee thing. Mostly shticky, in my opinion, and cute. But any sense of it being more intentful than that, no, chas v’shalom. Anyway, I am not a Lubavitcher, per se, but a chabadnik at heart. Chabad gets it and does it right! Kol hakavod!
I was thinking about this recently. And yes I realize it's a "misfit".
thank u for sharing this video. what a great contant you bring us.
I was always horrified when i saw pictures of Chossen kneeling before his Kallah. The entire proposal thing makes me uncomfortable. There is a right way to propose marriage. Keep it spiritual. Keep it Chassidish.
That actually happens???